View Full Version : Mountain Caribou Grizzly Attack (pics)
Came upon this today at work. Looked like the grizz must have mosied off the kill when he heard us coming. The Ministry has been notified and it doesn't seem like anyone there cares to check it out. This is proof that Grizzlies do in fact kill the precious mountain caribou, a fact that many in the Mountain Caribou Recovery camp seem to deny. They don't even want to investigate to collect grizz hair so they can see if he has killed more caribou in the past. Do you really think they really care about the recovery of the caribou or are they just looking for easy environmental votes by saying they are setting aside more of our landbase? We see many grizzlies in this drainage every year, and yet the Ministry only hands out 2 measily tags in the spring with a timing that normally has zero access due to high snow accumulations.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/DSC02086.jpg
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David Heitsman
11-08-2007, 07:27 PM
Are you certain the grizzly took it (the bou) down there or was he just consuming the carrion?
I can't tell by the pics but I don't see a lot of blood in the snow which might indicate prior mortality.
Still a shame no matter what.
For about a half a km stretch there was signicant blood patches in the snow.
Orangethunder
11-08-2007, 07:30 PM
Looks like a good bull too. You probably didn't want to carry out the horns though...
David Heitsman
11-08-2007, 07:31 PM
Sounds like the bull made a valliant effort. Too bad he didn't make it.
They were naturally shed. One was actually a hundred metres or so from the other. Shedding this time of year typically would indicate bad health.
Orangethunder
11-08-2007, 07:37 PM
I would think thats a bit early but I am by no means a caribou expert. Was that up to 6.5 and then left up your favorite side of the valley?
Exactly where it was. Amazing that this is the 2nd day in a row where one of our crews had to go home due safety concerns because of super fresh grizz tracks at our work area. Both jobsites were over a hundred kms apart.
Fisher-Dude
11-08-2007, 08:22 PM
And he killed it in a riparian zone so it pollutes the creek! Isn't that a ticketable offence? :wink:
From a reliable source I heard of a grizz in the EK a few years ago that killed 22 calf elk in one day. He was swatting them dead as soon as they fell from momma. Anyone who thinks grizz aren't voracious predators doesn't really know grizz too well. :???:
Orangethunder
11-08-2007, 08:38 PM
Exactly where it was. Amazing that this is the 2nd day in a row where one of our crews had to go home due safety concerns because of super fresh grizz tracks at our work area. Both jobsites were over a hundred kms apart.
And I dont suppose that it will happen on a Friday will it?
Mind you given the history of that companies employees it is probably better safe than sorry when dealing with critters. You dont want to end up in a tree climbing event like some poor sucker back in the day:lol:!!
gearjunkierob
11-08-2007, 08:44 PM
Wow - pretty cool. I'd be a little sketched out sitting on a kill that fresh, wondering if the Grizz was thinking about coming back! Although from the looks of it he might have finished his meal....
I don't know that nobody at MoE "cares" to come out and have a look - they are so short staffed, there is probably nobody left to go out in the field!
Nice find though, thanks for sharing!
OT,
LOL! I seem to remember hearing something about a guy sitting up in a tree for some time. ;) As for a grizz event on the Friday of a longweekend, I doubt that could happen. Although I am scheduled to work up the other side of the same valley tommorrow.
GearJunkie,
We actually knew the grizz wasn't there when we stopped for the pics. He had walked up the road a couple kms and went into the block we were scheduled to work in. We took the pics after we turned around because there was no way in hell we were going to lace up the boots and go to work.
BCrams
11-08-2007, 09:02 PM
Grizzlies are fine predators of ungulates! Sheep, caribou, moose, elk, deer ...... you name it ....
Sharkey
11-08-2007, 09:18 PM
Wow - those are some b-i-g tracks!
~D
boxhitch
11-08-2007, 09:23 PM
They were naturally shed. One was actually a hundred metres or so from the other. Shedding this time of year typically would indicate bad health.
Had me wondering. Definite lack of bones, and no skull attached. ?? I'd say other predators at work also.
Hope he didn't die from lead poisoning.
Orangethunder
11-08-2007, 09:40 PM
OT,
LOL! I seem to remember hearing something about a guy sitting up in a tree for some time. ;) As for a grizz event on the Friday of a longweekend, I doubt that could happen. Although I am scheduled to work up the other side of the same valley tommorrow.
.
You have fun out there man. I often think about all of the good times I've had out there.
wolverine
11-08-2007, 09:45 PM
Are you certain the grizzly took it (the bou) down there or was he just consuming the carrion?
I can't tell by the pics but I don't see a lot of blood in the snow which might indicate prior mortality.
Still a shame no matter what.
Yeah, what he said. Are you sure the Griz is responsible for the kill?
I have seen wolves in there before, so there is a possiblity that the grizz could have stole the kill. I am not a CSI invesigator, but seeing how much bear sign was there, it seems logical that the bear was the one that did the killing. It would make sense of the Ministry to go up and do a 'crime scene investigation', collect bear hair and the such and then they would be able to determine if that bear has been eating caribou in the past. The problem is they show a complete lack of concern. They would rather set aside a set amount of land, put many people out of work and win their election with a favorable greenie vote instead of taking the bull by the horns and dealing with some very touchy issues like predator control. If they ignore the evidence, then they won't have to deal with the true solution to save the mountain caribou.
bc-shedder
11-08-2007, 11:18 PM
why is it so hard to beleive that a grizzly killed a caribou yeah ive thought i was close to the griz on older kills i dont think i would have got out of my truck there lol Did u pack outt the antlers though
As for the comment that they probably don't have the resources to investigate this, well, wasn't there just a big announcement a few weeks back having the government kick in a big whack of money for the Caribou Recovery????? You would think they could get off their asses and check it out. They said, "NO!". We gave them the GPS cordinates and everything. Time is very critical. The snow is piling up and all evidence can be gone in a matter of days.
Ltbullken
11-09-2007, 06:03 AM
They were naturally shed. One was actually a hundred metres or so from the other. Shedding this time of year typically would indicate bad health.
Then the griz fulfilled his/her role in nature - cull the weak and the stupid! Based on your earlier comments, I ask why is it so remarkable that a grizzly would do that? If it were a sickly deer or elk, the griz would take it just the same if hungry. Just askin'...
calvin L
11-09-2007, 06:43 AM
I think it also has to do with the fact if it was a deer or a elk that was killed no one will loose there job over it. Job loss will happen when the gov't set's aside another large amount of land for the mtn caribou to help them. When the main problem is predator's
calvin L
3kills
11-09-2007, 07:15 AM
Then the griz fulfilled his/her role in nature - cull the weak and the stupid! Based on your earlier comments, I ask why is it so remarkable that a grizzly would do that? If it were a sickly deer or elk, the griz would take it just the same if hungry. Just askin'...
becuz the mountain caribou recovery group wont belive that grizzies will and are killin the caribou...
horshur
11-09-2007, 08:44 AM
Because there is plenty of money to finance the Conservation service office all winter keeping sledders out of there....maybe as much money as they get the rest of the year to police hunters and fishermen........they even bring in CO's..........
BCJunior
11-09-2007, 09:40 AM
Dang that bull did not stand a chance!
Jetboater
11-09-2007, 10:59 AM
Ya, no chance a grizz would kill a caribou, they only look for granola chewin hikers right, have a looky here
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=grizzly+VS+caribou
Kirby
11-09-2007, 11:24 AM
There is an article in the paper today about it. Kamloops Daily
Kirby
Orangethunder
11-09-2007, 04:17 PM
There is an article in the paper today about it. Kamloops Daily
Kirby
What was the jist of the article? Sometimes the media can throw a spin on a story as they see fit...:roll:
Stone Sheep Steve
11-09-2007, 04:28 PM
Here it is...
http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/
SSS
Walksalot
11-09-2007, 05:27 PM
Just because a grizzly killed a caribou means we should allow the logging company to go in and log the caribou's habitat. Boy, that makes a lot of sense.
3kills
11-09-2007, 06:05 PM
i like this statement
That targeted kill will then be subtracted from the allotment of grizzly bears that can be hunted in the North Thompson.
so if there is only two griz draws in that area and they go and kill 2 grizz that have killed caribou there wont be a grizz draw in that area???
wolverine
11-09-2007, 06:43 PM
why is it so hard to beleive that a grizzly killed a caribou yeah ive thought i was close to the griz on older kills i dont think i would have got out of my truck there lol Did u pack outt the antlers though
I don't find it hard to believe that a griz would attack a caribou, I just wondered how he knew it was killed by the griz and not something else. I would have thought that a healthy caribou would be able to stand it's ground against a griz but after seeing that Youtube vid, I guess there's no accounting for a "stupid" caribou. If that 'bou would have kept hauling ass when he crossed the river he wouldn't have landed up in tomorrows dung pile.;)
Here's an update to the situation. It is funny what a few calls to the media and Victoria can do for ya. After the release of the Kamloops paper, MOE did indeed send up some guys up this afternoon, whom I met at the killsite. It snowed a lot over night, so there wasn't much evidence to collect when it comes to bear hair. The caribou hide had been moved and a couple of quad road hunters had actually driven right over top of it. No sign of bear tracks today, but not really much left for the bear to eat either. I had a great discussion with the MOE guys and have to say I learned a lot about both caribou and wolves. They took hair samples and a few bone samples off the carcus. I gave them the a piece of the lower jaw that I had recovered yesterday so they could age the animal with the front teeth.
This is the first time I have seen the Kamloops paper article. Have to say the MOE rep's comments concern me as a hunter trying to get a Grizz LEH in that unit. The MOE eliminating the bear should in no way affect the LEH allotments. That is indeed utter BullShit!!! The 2 bear quota should be increased to at least 4 and what ever the MOE kills should not be subtracted from that quota.
Here are a few pics of the sheds off the bull. As a shed hunter, I have to say, this is indeed a find of a lifetime.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/Nov8a002a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/Nov8a003a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/Nov8a004a.jpg
Orangethunder
11-09-2007, 07:14 PM
Thats a hog indeed!! And I went all the way to Dease to shoot a dink...:oops:
Ltbullken
11-09-2007, 07:42 PM
I think it also has to do with the fact if it was a deer or a elk that was killed no one will loose there job over it. Job loss will happen when the gov't set's aside another large amount of land for the mtn caribou to help them. When the main problem is predator's
calvin L
IF THE ANIMAL IS SICK AND WEAK, IT WILL DIE REGARDLESS! Predators will take the sick and weak primarily and leave healthy animals. So why are we so worked up over a griz culling the cariboo heard of a sick animal that will reduce competition for the healthy??!!!
Saw some of the exact same comments in this thread in the Kamloops Daily Newspaper today from a logging contractor - surprise, surprise - who is criticizing the cariboo plan. I can't help but think there are ulterior motives here... Put the cards on the table folks! ;-)
hunter1947
11-09-2007, 07:55 PM
i like this statement
so if there is only two grizz draws in that area and they go and kill 2 grizz that have killed caribou there wont be a grizz draw in that area???
I would say that there might have been something wrong with the caribou ,and that's why the Griz got it. And as for the antlers i would say that it is getting closer to the month when they are going to drop there antlers so the antlers were not as secure as a few months Pryor. When the Griz consumed the animal he would of been pulling it all over the place holding on to the antler ,making them pull apart from the skull base.
horshur
11-09-2007, 08:05 PM
IF THE ANIMAL IS SICK AND WEAK, IT WILL DIE REGARDLESS! Predators will take the sick and weak primarily and leave healthy animals. So why are we so worked up over a griz culling the cariboo heard of a sick animal that will reduce competition for the healthy??!!!
Saw some of the exact same comments in this thread in the Kamloops Daily Newspaper today from a logging contractor - surprise, surprise - who is criticizing the cariboo plan. I can't help but think there are ulterior motives here... Put the cards on the table folks! ;-)
Bud.....look at that rack. Why would a healthy bull with antlers like that be sick???? he sure weren't this summer anyway was he????
That would be a breeding bull of only a few breeding bulls so it is a big deal......
Stone Sheep Steve
11-09-2007, 08:08 PM
Aren't caribou the earliest "shedders" of the ungulates??
I'll have to do some research.
Those sheds make M'nTrash look like a two point:cool:.
SSS
hunter1947
11-09-2007, 08:13 PM
Maybe the caribou was attacked from a pack of wolves and he was injured bad. He manged to get away and this is when the grizzly found him finished him off ???.
Stone Sheep Steve
11-09-2007, 08:23 PM
I couldn't find much but just a generic statement that caribou bulls cast their antlers after the rut at the "beginning of winter". Packing huge antlers around not only takes energy but also tells predators that you're most likely weak from rutting hard.
I don't think that bull was sick...just shedding after the rut before the full onset of winter.
Come on you biologists look in some of you texts!!!
SSS
The MOE reps agreed with my assessment that it was probably killed by the grizz. Wolf kills are usually scattered all over the place as each individual wolf takes a piece and goes off a distance to eat. Normally lots more wolf tracks than just the few we noted.
As for the health of the animal and the shedding of the antlers. I earlier suggested Stress or Sickness as to a reason why he may have shed out early. Stress from a prolonged attack from a Grizz might just have done that don't ya think. The MOE reps seemed to think that the battle with the grizz may have loosened them as well. They took bone and hair samples so they will be able to test to see if the animal was sick or healthy.
I don't think those of you who doubt a grizz taking down the caribou ever watched Lorne Green's Wilderness as kids eh? Don't you remember that amazing footage of a small sow grizz killing that bull caribou in the river???? I've seen sequences of pics of grizz killing moose. There were some printed in a Big Buck Mag a few years back. I worked for a client that watched the same kind of sequence and happened to have a camera with him. He said the grizz attack on the Moose took several hours.
As for our motives, it is plain and simple, our livelyhood is at stake. I am personally tired of Logging being the scapgoat for the ills of the world. Like I have stated in the Caribou thread in the Political Forum, how much Landbase do we need to set aside to save the Caribou???? The MOE reps were in agreement with me, no amount of Landbase protection is going to save the caribou if we don't manage the predators, which is a political hot potatoe.
horshur
11-09-2007, 08:35 PM
Carmen said that the Mills and loggers have been following the Caribou plans.....they have had to jump threw many hoops all initiated by Bios suggestion(profesionals that know about caribou) the Mills have invested in good faith and kept up there end of the deal....now the professionals change the rules without holding up there end of the bargain.....sound science even but they refuse so who's not showing there cards?
Ltbullken
11-09-2007, 10:27 PM
Bud.....look at that rack. Why would a healthy bull with antlers like that be sick???? he sure weren't this summer anyway was he????
That would be a breeding bull of only a few breeding bulls so it is a big deal......
Earlier comment was that a shed this early likely means the animal was sick. The animal may have had a healthy growth to the fall and only recently been struck with something (... yah, yah - accute case of grizzly!). Breeders can get used up in breeding season only to get severely run down and die because they are so depleted due to too much ... breeding and fighting off contenders. What a life, reach your pinnacle, breed, then die off because it's too exhausting. So much hypothetical. Any biologists out there care to weigh in?
Allen50
11-09-2007, 10:54 PM
nice set of horns, and a nice cat behind you,what was the size of your cat there, good info on Bo, cool find.
KodiakHntr
11-10-2007, 10:37 AM
Predators will take the sick and weak primarily and leave healthy animals.
Never watched a wolf pack hunt have you...
Or a bear stalk anything...
During a black bear hunt in the kootenays my buddy and I watched a medium grizzly hunt a full grown elk. That elk was healthy, as near as we could tell when she started running leaping from her bed, and that bear was on her. She never had a chance when that bear swarmed over her.
So regardless of whether that bull 'bou was healthy or not, I don't think he had a chance once that bear keyed in on him.
Ltbullken
11-10-2007, 05:24 PM
Never watched a wolf pack hunt have you...
Or a bear stalk anything...
During a black bear hunt in the kootenays my buddy and I watched a medium grizzly hunt a full grown elk. That elk was healthy, as near as we could tell when she started running leaping from her bed, and that bear was on her. She never had a chance when that bear swarmed over her.
So regardless of whether that bull 'bou was healthy or not, I don't think he had a chance once that bear keyed in on him.
Let me revise... the weak AND the stupid...
horshur
11-10-2007, 07:24 PM
So I guess them boys have rethought.....frigging chicken shits. Update in kamloops daily......Bears are not on the predator list. So even though they have scientific evidence that a Grizzly is responsible for significant mortality of of calves and further proof with this weeks photos....it don't matter because like we always knew.......sentimental feelings will always trump reality.
http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/index.shtml
What a bunch of fricken BS!!!! At the very least they can issue more LEH authorizations, but no, the Vote Hungry Liberals have the Bio's hands tied. The politics in the Caribou Recovery Strategy is what will cause them to fail. It will be a sad day when the Caribou are gone for good. And I hope we as hunters will remember that it was indeed the ChickenShit Liberals that want the World Stage in 2010 that will be the ones holding the smoking gun!!!!!
Islandeer
11-12-2007, 05:08 PM
Solution : Have the media announce that the Premier plans to give free meals to all attending Liberal mp's who attend the next session. There will be 100% attendance of course. Next place one cairibou mauling grizz in the parliment and place one large cairibou at the exit. Initially the liberals will do nothing. But as their numbers dwindle they will be forced to get off their honerary asses and actually do something.This will take time and the grizz will eat more liberals. Meanwhile the bou will eat taxpayers flowers and stomp a few greenies who try whispering to it. Soon only one liberal is left hiding, clinging to some wildlife act memo about grizz allocation under madame speaker's chair. She wasn't invited to this sitting because there wasn't enough food to share with her. Grizz soon falls asleep, quite intoxicated by all of the political fodder he has consumed. Greed tastes good he thought as he drifted off.Then the right honourable(by his own admission) and sober(but not in the aloha place)gingerly manouvered around the snoring bear but not before slapping an enviornmental levy on him for consumingan endangered species.He swings open the legislative doors and is met by police who ask if this his cairibou. The premier then ask's if this a good or a bad thing. Bad says the officer,just stomped a couple of green peacers. Oh he says,too bad,no he's not mine. cop then cuffs Premier on abandonment charges and looks the other way at a homeless guy while MC bou attempts to kicks Premier in the nads. No nads so kicks him in the ass instead, ends up kicking him in the head though. MC then airlifted back to Dana's cut block to happily live . Grizz who is now hooked on this readily availabe and fat food source decides to relocate to Lotus land. Premier sentanced to actually read all wildlife acts and all Moe and other user groups concerned papers and not just wipe his a.. with them.
Timbow
11-12-2007, 05:15 PM
What a bunch of fricken BS!!!! At the very least they can issue more LEH authorizations, but no, the Vote Hungry Liberals have the Bio's hands tied. The politics in the Caribou Recovery Strategy is what will cause them to fail. It will be a sad day when the Caribou are gone for good. And I hope we as hunters will remember that it was indeed the ChickenShit Liberals that want the World Stage in 2010 that will be the ones holding the smoking gun!!!!!
Totally political, doesn't matter which party is in power. I remember when the NDP closed grizzly bear hunting without input from their professional staff. If they had the input they didn't listen. I personally don't think a few more LEH's are going to help the situation either.
GoatGuy
11-15-2007, 03:27 PM
Apparently I'm supposed to reply here. :-P Geez can't a person have a couple days off?
Hunters make up 3% of the population. 97% of the population doesn't hunt and doesn't really care about Caribou at the end of the day (apparently some hunters don't either). More than 97% of the population likely doesn't support grizzly bear huntng and predator control is not accepted in any place really.
Hunters will talk for pages about not getting an LEH draw or hunting seasons, road hunters, youth, road closures etc., but can't seem to find the time to get on the bus.
If you want predator control you need to be more organized and more vocal than 97% of the population AND you need to support MoE EEE's instead of harping on them.
Science often gets put on the back burner when it comes to wildlife management - politics come front and center - if you want to win you gotta play the game.
How's that?
Fisher-Dude
11-15-2007, 04:15 PM
What a bunch of fricken BS!!!! At the very least they can issue more LEH authorizations, but no, the Vote Hungry Liberals have the Bio's hands tied. The politics in the Caribou Recovery Strategy is what will cause them to fail. It will be a sad day when the Caribou are gone for good. And I hope we as hunters will remember that it was indeed the ChickenShit Liberals that want the World Stage in 2010 that will be the ones holding the smoking gun!!!!!
Would you suggest people support the anti-hunting NDP and anti-hunting Greens then? Would you also suggest that we plunge the province back into a deficit-laden recession with the NDP again, and lose more hunters to "can't afford it" reasons because so many are unemployed with a Socialist government that chases investment from this province??
I hope not.
Seeadler
11-15-2007, 06:51 PM
About the shed antlers, I have seen bulls around Grande Cache, AB that have shed this time of year.
hunter11
11-15-2007, 08:22 PM
Too bad. Nice lookn bull. Thr grizz must've been huge look at those paws.
GG,
Get organized eh? What? You don't think the Forestry Industry is organized. The MOE's don't even want us in the discussions on this topic. The only action you get out of them is when you call the media???? Sounds like we need to support them eh?
Yesterday I had a chat with a local trapper. Guess what he told me. The MOE is paying $3,000 for them to live trap wolves so they can get collars and samples and such. Then they are released back into the wild so they can eat more caribou. Great idea eh? WTF???? Sounds like those MOE's need a lot of our support, especially when they are spending our tax money killing caribou by capturing wolves to let them go again. Wouldn't a bounty make more sense to save the precious caribou????
horshur
11-23-2007, 09:03 PM
GG,
Get organized eh? What? You don't think the Forestry Industry is organized. The MOE's don't even want us in the discussions on this topic. The only action you get out of them is when you call the media???? Sounds like we need to support them eh?
Yesterday I had a chat with a local trapper. Guess what he told me. The MOE is paying $3,000 for them to live trap wolves so they can get collars and samples and such. Then they are released back into the wild so they can eat more caribou. Great idea eh? WTF???? Sounds like those MOE's need a lot of our support, especially when they are spending our tax money killing caribou by capturing wolves to let them go again. Wouldn't a bounty make more sense to save the precious caribou????
betcha they never accomplished much with the baiting scheme....other than spend a bunch of money............how much per hour for chopper flights hauling roadkill???????
Winter of 05 I was flying with the chopper piliot that had been flying in roadkill all winter so the MOE's could tag wolves. The question I have, how many studies do they need to get it in their thick heads that the wolves are indeed killing the caribou???? Maybe I need a double doctorate to figure it out eh?
GoatGuy
11-23-2007, 09:18 PM
GG,
Get organized eh? What? You don't think the Forestry Industry is organized. The MOE's don't even want us in the discussions on this topic. The only action you get out of them is when you call the media???? Sounds like we need to support them eh?
Re-read what you've written and I think you'll figure it out.
Yesterday I had a chat with a local trapper. Guess what he told me. The MOE is paying $3,000 for them to live trap wolves so they can get collars and samples and such. Then they are released back into the wild so they can eat more caribou. Great idea eh? WTF???? Sounds like those MOE's need a lot of our support, especially when they are spending our tax money killing caribou by capturing wolves to let them go again. Wouldn't a bounty make more sense to save the precious caribou????
They have to get proof.
Bounty won't work - hunter's can't do predator control, not enough dollars or people who will go out and make it happen. Never mind popular appearance.
After all the pages of ranting you're going to have to realize it isn't the ministry who's holding up the process, nor are the people who are working on the recovery strategy. They want to get the caribou back on their wheels more than anyone else BUT they have to deal with government.
Government's get elected by votes and predator control is about as popular as genocide.
By harping on ministry staff all you're doing is holding the process up. You want to help then get on board and support them. Find something in the bush report it. Let them know what you're seeing - educate your friends on the problems that caribou are facing. Let people know why we need predator control.
You're pointing your finger at the people who are hunters and conservationists no different than you or I.
If you want to make a difference write a letter to your MLA and your MP - make an appointment and go in and see them. Call them, write them and email them on a regular basis.
By attacking our own we're only holding hurting what is already a difficult process.
Proof? I did just that. That is what the thread is about. It wasn't until the media and MLA's were called before we got any action whatsoever!!!! Of course going up late the next afternoon after a major snowstorm there was little evidence left. They MOE was called early the day before. They said they could care less about investigating it. As soon as the Kamloops paper came out the next morning, suddenly they sent a crew up from Kamloops.
Then the one MOE rep makes the BoneHead statement that killing this bear would go against the LEH allotements. Sure, that is going to make me call in the next one the next time ain't it. You rant about more opportunity for resident hunters when it comes to your precious sheep, but.....you think it's acceptable that I wait a lifetime to hunt grizz in my backyard cause everytime I find "Proof" I might be just be shooting myself in the foot by reporting the 'Proof"?
It is not about the wolves or gbears eatin caribou, it is all about politics. For the MOE at this stage of the game to admit that gbears kill caribou, would be akin to admitting that some gbears will have to be removed, inorder for the caribou to survive. Just isnt going to happen, not now. The more the public, is made aware that predators are playing a major role in the decline of caribou, the sooner someting will be done. Its all about politics, and nothing to do with resource management.
horshur
11-23-2007, 10:05 PM
From William Hillens book 'Blackwater River"(1971)
"The conditions that created abundant range for moose were nearly disastrous for the original animal inhabitants, the woodland caribou or "whet-zae" of the blackwater indians.
Their habitat was destroyed. Prior to 1880 or thereabouts judging by Indian stories and the number of horns still found at old cabins, swamps, and meadows, caribou were numerous all over the Blackwater basin. when the succession of uncontrolled fires wiped out most of their winter range, these herds declined. Later prospectors burned off the alpines to expose bedrock. Fires do not always destroy the timber but do consume the lichens and mosses and humis and leave barren rock near or below the treeline where caribou stay during wet weather and most of the winter.........this change in habitat is a profound illustration of how a species will multiply to capacity of new and suitable range while another, following the destruction of it's habitat, will disappear, an illustration of just how dependant wildlife is on the land."
1897 old Chief Morris, killed the first moose seen in the territory.
Mr Hillen was a predator officer and game warden in quesnel and used poison to kill wolves as was the policy(government) of the day.
Most of the old growth they want to save is just that old......even trees decline.
I wonder if they will have a collar on the wolf that kills that last mnt caribou?
Orangethunder
11-24-2007, 07:28 PM
From William Hillens book 'Blackwater River"(1971)
"The conditions that created abundant range for moose were nearly disastrous for the original animal inhabitants, the woodland caribou or "whet-zae" of the blackwater indians.
Their habitat was destroyed. Prior to 1880 or thereabouts judging by Indian stories and the number of horns still found at old cabins, swamps, and meadows, caribou were numerous all over the Blackwater basin. when the succession of uncontrolled fires wiped out most of their winter range, these herds declined. Later prospectors burned off the alpines to expose bedrock. Fires do not always destroy the timber but do consume the lichens and mosses and humis and leave barren rock near or below the treeline where caribou stay during wet weather and most of the winter.........this change in habitat is a profound illustration of how a species will multiply to capacity of new and suitable range while another, following the destruction of it's habitat, will disappear, an illustration of just how dependant wildlife is on the land."
1897 old Chief Morris, killed the first moose seen in the territory.
Mr Hillen was a predator officer and game warden in quesnel and used poison to kill wolves as was the policy(government) of the day.
Most of the old growth they want to save is just that old......even trees decline.
I wonder if they will have a collar on the wolf that kills that last mnt caribou?
I really doubt it. Mr Weigle's helicopters will probably run the last of them off a cliff showing some yutz what they look like. Funny that in the whole management game he is all but unaffected. Hmmmm I wonder what a free ski trip or two gets you?
horshur
11-24-2007, 07:37 PM
I really doubt it. Mr Weigle's helicopters will probably run the last of them off a cliff showing some yutz what they look like. Funny that in the whole management game he is all but unaffected. Hmmmm I wonder what a free ski trip or two gets you?
yeh thats a good point.
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