Am I breaking the BC law using my radio and external mike?

[geologist]

When I'm on logging roads I use a Baofeng UV-82 (external roof top antenna) with an external mic and speaker clipped to my shirt and call out my kms up and down. The radio usually sits in a drink holder on my console powered by my cigarette lighter. I have to key the mike to transmit.

Am I breaking BC's distracted driving laws doing this?

[goatdancer]

Who cares, if it may save your life.

[westcoaster]

Here is some reading to help you decide....

https://deltaamateurradio.com/wp/?page_id=4627

[jac]

From my experience with police and Commercial vehicle inspectors if you
have a radio with detached mic you are good. If your worried about it you can add a small mic that hooks up to that radio I think.

[firebird]

Who’s pulling you over on logging roads lol

as far as I understand holding a mic, conventional or wireless doesn’t fall under distracted driving

[westcoaster]

If you do end up getting a ticket, the money given to the government could have gone a long way to buying a nice radio setup from a radio shop....

My math indicates the money starts at $620 and could go higher from there if your rates end up increasing.

So yes, it probably would pay you to pay attention and not get caught, or simply take the money you could have paid in a fine and invest in a "legal" (for distracted driving) radio.


https://www.icbc.com/road-safety/crashes-happen/Distracted-driving/Pages/default.aspx


The cost of distracted drivingIf you're caught distracted driving, you'll be ticketed and receive a fine of $368.
Every ticket for distracted driving also adds four driver penalty points to your driving record. If you have four or more points at the end of a 12-month period, you pay a driver penalty point (DPP) premium (https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/tickets/Pages/Driver-Penalty-Points.aspx). These premiums start at $252 and increase for every point you accumulate. You may also have to pay a driver risk premium (https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/tickets/Pages/Driver-Risk-Premium.aspx).
With increased enforcement throughout B.C., multiple infractions can now put a serious dent in your wallet.

[MRP]

Two radios do not apply to the distractive driving law. Otherwise every vehicle calling their miles in the bush would have to pull over to do so. That’s just not going to happen. Quit overthinking things, use it to save your life and get on with it. If you’re not overusing it or screwing up somehow no one‘s gonna bother you.

[S.W.A.T.]

Why does everyone view using radios as a dance with the devil. ^^^^what MRP says^^^^

[adriaticum]

i think you have to have a license to be transmitting

[boxhitch]

The question is about the distracted driving law, which is actually a use of hand held electronic device law

"A person may use a two-way radio while driving if the transceiver:



Is within easy reach of the driver’s seat, and
Is securely fixed to the motor vehicle or worn securely on the person’s body in a manner that does not obstruct the person’s view of the front or sides of the motor vehicle or interfere with the safety or operating equipment of the motor vehicle

Please note: Hand microphones, including two-way radios, may only be used in the push and hold-to-talk function while driving. Other functions on these devices cannot be operated by a driver while driving."


they don't want you fumbling around reaching, dialing, coding etc

heres the do and don't
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/driving-and-cycling/roadsafetybc/high-risk/distracted/electronic-devices

[Redthies]

i think you have to have a license to be transmitting

No “think” required. Technically, you are required to have a federal license to own or operate VHF radios in Canada. This includes just monitoring channels. User programable radios (like the Baofengs) are straight up illegal even if you do have an amateur radio license. You can have a radio dealer program them for you, and “lock” them so they are no longer user programable and make them legal, but you legally need a license to have them.

I really doubt anyone has ever, or will ever be busted for distracted driving using a VHF or CB radio while driving.

[westcoaster]

I really doubt anyone has ever, or will ever be busted for distracted driving using a VHF or CB radio while driving.

Guess again....
https://www.trucknews.com/regulations/b-c-driver-using-two-way-radio-wins-distracted-driving-appeal/1003151205/

In the end the driver did win the court case but it did have to go to the supreme court to have an earlier decision overturned.
Your mileage may vary if you have a handheld rattling around in your cup holder.....


Edit:
I also find it the chances are quite remote of being busted on a logging road for using a hand held device, however, .....

[Redthies]

Well, there you go. Seems in the end, sanity prevailed?

If one reads the linked article, in the case of the Baofengs or other handhelds, just put the radio in your console and have the remote mic outside or clipped to your shirt. The only button you can legally touch while driving is the PTT.

[igojuone]

No, if so every trucker out there would be breaking the law everyday.

[igojuone]

I use mine on city streets from my pickup all the time.

[Arctic Lake]

I think we need a sticky about radios for off road use !
Arctic Lake

[Redthies]

I think we need a sticky about radios for off road use !
Arctic Lake

Sure, but let’s let someone who is actually CLEAR on the law write it. There is a ton of dis-information in all the radio threads. Most of us using radios for personal use are breaking one or more rules every time we do it. I have licensed work radios, but when I use my personal ones, I am breaking a rule. I stick to FRS frequencies, but my radios exceed the maximum wattage by about 25%. I don’t think that’s a bad deal given that nobody should get too uptight about those channels... but technically speaking, mine have too much power. Worst case scenario in my case is the family camping next valley over hears me talking to my hunting partner if they are using the same frequency to keep in touch with little boopsie while he walks their labradoodle puppy.

[MOUNTAIN MICKEY]

You can lock a Baofeng so that it is not "field programable" buy using a CHIRP type program. Go to the work mode setting and then go to line 3 and change the setting to enabled. This is quite different from using the "lock" feature on the keypad. And you dont have to go to a dealer to have it done.

[Arctic Lake]

Redthies What are FRS frequencies ?
Arctic Lake

[westcoaster]

Redthies What are FRS frequencies ?
Arctic Lake

"Family Radio Service"
Bubble pack radios you get from Walmart....

They are UHF, In Canada the FRS frequencies are limited to a half watt. With the explosion in popularity in the US of GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service) Canada adopted the GMRS frequencies and permitted them to be 5 watts.
"Type approved" radios are limited in power, cannot have a removable antenna and not be programmable.

edit: there is nothing special about the frequencies themselves. I have the frequencies programmed on a UHF kenwood and Icom portable radio... Illegal, yes....

[westcoaster]

Sure, but let’s let someone who is actually CLEAR on the law write it. There is a ton of dis-information in all the radio threads. Most of us using radios for personal use are breaking one or more rules every time we do it. I have licensed work radios, but when I use my personal ones, I am breaking a rule. I stick to FRS frequencies, but my radios exceed the maximum wattage by about 25%. I don’t think that’s a bad deal given that nobody should get too uptight about those channels... but technically speaking, mine have too much power. Worst case scenario in my case is the family camping next valley over hears me talking to my hunting partner if they are using the same frequency to keep in touch with little boopsie while he walks their labradoodle puppy.

A guy could quote the law as to how it is written. The problem comes with interpreting the law for the various scenarios.

You read the article as being able to stuff your portable in a console and clip a microphone to your body. I read it as having radio and microphone secured to your body.... (besides the technical issue of the radio having reduced range from being stuffed in a box)
Who is right? I honestly don't know....

The people we have tasked with interpreting the law as it is written are currently getting it wrong (police and lower courts) It would be an uphill challenge for an average guy who has a regular day job to make a decent go of it....

[boxhitch]

Redthies What are FRS frequencies ?
Arctic Lake
ic.gc.ca low power license exempt radio devices

[boxhitch]

Gmrs are limited to 2 watts in Canada

[westcoaster]

Gmrs are limited to 2 watts in Canada

Yup, I got that wrong....
https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf01320.html Edit: skip to "ANNEX E" for FRS/GMRS


Kind of makes those bubble pack radios rather useless.

[Pioneerman]

Use the damn radios off in the bush who cares about these paper rule waving stories. You have it for the bush not roaming a\round town or down paved roads. Is it legal without a license prob not, but then you have the same people telling you to spend way more money on a radio that does the same thing. I know tons of people using Baofeng radios and the powers to be that are going to be hunting your radio transmission down to fine you are few and far between. This is sounding like the covid police turning in their neighbors or threatening them lol You have it for safety so use it for that.Just like bear spray, legal to use fore safety not legal to use in a bank. Flares legal to use for safety not legal of airport lobby

[westcoaster]

Administrative Monetary Penalties....

It looks like most of us would fall under a "type 1" violation

edit:

As noted above, the amounts set out in this table will normally apply to each instance of a violation and, where appropriate, each item, such as a radio apparatus or jammer. For example, an individual who possesses three jammers could face an AMP valued at $4,500, i.e. $1,500 for each jammer.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf10972.html




Violation
Short-Form Description
Penalty Amounts


Individuals
Corporations and
Other Entities


1st
Violation
2nd +
Violation
1st
Violation
2nd +
Violation


Installation, operation, or possession of any radio apparatus in contravention of any term or condition of a radio licence
$500
$1,000
$1,500
$3,000


Installation, operation, or possession of any radio apparatus without a radio licence or operation of any radio apparatus without a radio operator certificate where one is required
$1,000
$2,000
$2,500
$10,000


Installation, operation or possession of a jammer
$1,500
$3,000
$5,000
$10,000






Violation
Short-Form Description
Penalty Amounts


Individuals
Corporations and
Other Entities


1st
Violation
2nd +
Violation
1st
Violation
2nd +
Violation


Installation, operation, or possession of any radio apparatus without a spectrum licence or, when used for broadcasting, without a broadcasting certificate
$25,000
$50,000
$10M
$15M


Installation, operation, or possession of any radio apparatus in contravention of any term or condition of a spectrum licence or, when used for broadcasting, in contravention of any term or condition of a broadcasting certificate
$25,000
$50,000
$10M
$15M


Installation, operation or possession of radio apparatus in contravention of standards established by Industry Canada to meet Health Canada’s Safety Code 6 (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/consult/_2014/safety_code_6-code_securite_6/final_finale-eng.php)
$25,000
$50,000
$10M
$15M


Manufacture, importation, distribution, leasing, offering for sale, or sale of any radio apparatus, interference- causing equipment, or radio-sensitive equipment that does not comply with standards established by Industry Canada
$25,000
$50,000
$10M
$15M


Manufacture, importation, distribution, leasing, offering for sale, or sale of a jammer
$25,000
$50,000
$10M
$15M


Contravention of any procedure, standard or condition applicable in respect of a system of competitive bidding
$25,000
$50,000
$10M
$15M

[ACE]

Use the radio in the prescribed manner for your own/others safety . . .
Worry about the paperwork later.

This is a safety issue and trumps the bureaucratic quagmire . . . every time.

[Redthies]

Redthies What are FRS frequencies ?
Arctic Lake

As West said, Family Radio Service. You can (like I do) operate your vhf on those frequencies (and GMRS), and while still technically being illegal, you’re very unlikely to be caught doing it. Anyone can buy a pair of the Cobra or Uniden or Motorola Talkabouts for $100 at Canadian Tire and use them unlicensed. The difference is that mine are programable, and are higher power. Again, not going to be much of an issue on those freqs, but being programable, I can also set them to RR channels and monitor for traffic.

If I am going to travel on a RR, I will listen to the channel used on that road for a good 5-10 mins before driving on it to see if it is active. I don’t transmit my movements, but will know where others on the road are, and pull off in a safe spot and wait for trucks coming downhill to pass. Without fail, every time I’ve done that, the downhill vehicle has called out “truck uphill at X km, no radio”. I hear them doing it for me, and proceed. Could I call myself up at the KM markers? Sure. But I prefer to stay off their working frequency if I can. I smile and wave and stay out of their way. You never know when your unauthorized chatter is going to rub someone the wrong way and have them go out of their way to make life hard on you.

I once was going uphill loaded in my tractor with a 50’ x 24” steel tower tube strapped on my 20’ deck. There was 30’ hanging off the back, and on some of the hills, it was dragging on the road. If I stopped, I would likely not get started again (SUPER steep terrain), and could not back up to a flat section due to the tube digging in the road. Another contractor let one of their crew cabs run to the valley with no radio. I was calling out going uphill, and she had no idea I was coming. We met on a hairpin corner. She threw it in reverse and punched it, but the winches on the side of my deck cut that Chevy along the side from front to back. Right through the fender outer, door skin etc. I kept going. She was fine, and was found at fault by the “owner” of the road. This was on a mountain road closed to the public, and a bit of a “Wild West” type of thing. She didn’t need to call out (although it was protocol), just needed to know I was coming and wait at pullouts.

The take away is, you don’t need to fill the airwaves and announce yourself and your quasi legal radio to the world, just monitor the channel before you start up or down, and pull off in a safe spot when you are within a km of other traffic. Obviously if it is a true life or death scenario, then use the radio and deal with any fallout later.

[Redthies]

Gmrs are limited to 2 watts in Canada

Channels 8-14 are only allowed 0.5 Watts of transmission power (ERP or Effective Radiated Power), while 1-7 and 15-22 are allowed 2.0 watts of ERP.

[S.W.A.T.]

As West said, Family Radio Service. You can (like I do) operate your vhf on those frequencies (and GMRS), and while still technically being illegal, you’re very unlikely to be caught doing it. Anyone can buy a pair of the Cobra or Uniden or Motorola Talkabouts for $100 at Canadian Tire and use them unlicensed. The difference is that mine are programable, and are higher power. Again, not going to be much of an issue on those freqs, but being programable, I can also set them to RR channels and monitor for traffic.

If I am going to travel on a RR, I will listen to the channel used on that road for a good 5-10 mins before driving on it to see if it is active. I don’t transmit my movements, but will know where others on the road are, and pull off in a safe spot and wait for trucks coming downhill to pass. Without fail, every time I’ve done that, the downhill vehicle has called out “truck uphill at X km, no radio”. I hear them doing it for me, and proceed. Could I call myself up at the KM markers? Sure. But I prefer to stay off their working frequency if I can. I smile and wave and stay out of their way. You never know when your unauthorized chatter is going to rub someone the wrong way and have them go out of their way to make life hard on you.

I once was going uphill loaded in my tractor with a 50’ x 24” steel tower tube strapped on my 20’ deck. There was 30’ hanging off the back, and on some of the hills, it was dragging on the road. If I stopped, I would likely not get started again (SUPER steep terrain), and could not back up to a flat section due to the tube digging in the road. Another contractor let one of their crew cabs run to the valley with no radio. I was calling out going uphill, and she had no idea I was coming. We met on a hairpin corner. She threw it in reverse and punched it, but the winches on the side of my deck cut that Chevy along the side from front to back. Right through the fender outer, door skin etc. I kept going. She was fine, and was found at fault by the “owner” of the road. This was on a mountain road closed to the public, and a bit of a “Wild West” type of thing. She didn’t need to call out (although it was protocol), just needed to know I was coming and wait at pullouts.

The take away is, you don’t need to fill the airwaves and announce yourself and your quasi legal radio to the world, just monitor the channel before you start up or down, and pull off in a safe spot when you are within a km of other traffic. Obviously if it is a true life or death scenario, then use the radio and deal with any fallout later.

What if someone else operates with the same "I will wait for someone to do my calling for me" theory? Now you have two people headed towards each other expecting the other person to "their " job for them. Seems like accident waiting to happen.

90% of the time there is a sign posted at the start of main FSR roads, not so much the smaller spur roads, that have radio use procedures for that road. Probably better to have a 30 second read then a 5min listen I'm thinking

[Bugle M In]

Are we breaking the law....probably yes.
Do you want to be right, or do you want to be safe?
Use responsibly, and its all good.
Use an RR, especially active to bs on, then expect to have a lot of backlash and abuse from workers in the area.
Just be responsible.

[jac]

I just listen for on coming commercial traffic. I call out at ever must call sign so like ever 10km. Pretty easy

[Arctic Lake]

Redthies. Thanks for posting the information !
Arctic Lake

[One Shot]

I do not believe this applies to FSRs. FSRs are not hwys/roads under the motor vehicle and highways act. They are not maintained by provincial or municipal road crews or contractors. They are private roads maintained by private companies under the forest or similar act unless specified under this act.

[.330 Dakota]

The fine is quite small when your lying under the front bumper of a loaded log truck. USE THE RADIO, STAY ALIVE, EFF THE GOVT

[Bugle M In]

I have never heard a truck driver working in an FSR giving someone shit for using a radio to call out road km and direction.
EVER!!
No one is asking for a "license"!

Only time i hear swearing or alike is when a truck driver has a near miss etc, or has some clown blow by him.
I am sure if some yahoo was using the radio and an active RR channel in the area, that there certainly would be some
deep thoughts and harsh language being passed on.
Still doubt anything more would come from it.
Unless it was happening repeatedly, day after day in an active area by that yahoo.
Still doubt law enforcement would be called.
If anything, that yahoo might be "forced off the road" and dealt with that way.

[j270wsm]

I do not believe this applies to FSRs. FSRs are not hwys/roads under the motor vehicle and highways act. They are not maintained by provincial or municipal road crews or contractors. They are private roads maintained by private companies under the forest or similar act unless specified under this act.

It doesn’t matter who maintains the road!! If the road is on crown land then anyone can use it.
Legally you don’t have to have a radio to use any fsr. Privavte property can have rules making radios mandatory but its not a law. Using a radio is obviously the safest/smartest option.

[widger]

Keep doing what you are doing, and as a commercial driver in the bush has told me they would far rather have unlicensed users calling their KM’s than worrying about the legalities. I have never seen any authority in the bush express their concerns in this regard.

[One Shot]

It doesn’t matter who maintains the road!! If the road is on crown land then anyone can use it.
Legally you don’t have to have a radio to use any fsr. Privavte property can have rules making radios mandatory but its not a law. Using a radio is obviously the safest/smartest option.

You missed the point, hands free $h!t under the hwys act does not apply to FSRs. It is a separate set of regs. And it does matter who maintains the road. If it is maintained by the provincial hwys or a municipality then the hands free $h!t applies.

[tipper]

It's just a false sense of security relying on a radio on any road. Always expect a lowbed logtruck or whatever on narrow sections.
Bit different in the winter because you don't get as many dumbass tourists but there's always the odd one.

[browningboy]

Hard to believe there’s a thread about this? Guess every long road trucker is too…