Help me with my boat research?

[FlyingHigh]

Cross posting from AO to see if anyone here that wouldn't otherwise see it has some good insights.


I've gotten the all clear from the wife to start researching for a boat purchase. We're a ways out since we plan to purchase in mid 2022 or so, but there's a ton of learning I want/need to do before I pull the trigger.

We're looking for something that will give us the most options and funtionality so we put the boat to use rather than have it sit. This would ideally mean something we can use on rivers like the Wapiti, Peace, Smokey, and Murray since we live in GP and rivers are more common than lakes. That said, we love fishing lakes for trout so we'd like to be able to use the boat on lakes the size of Rock Lake near Hinton or Sheridan Lake in BC. We'd probably take it to Sturgeon Lake as well depending on the wind.

I realize a river boat isn't going to perform ideally on a lake once the whitecaps start rolling but I'm almost always off the lake by then since flyfishing in those winds kinda sucks. I'm willing to sacrifice a smoother ride on the lake by using a jet boat and I'm willing to give up running skinny water to have a slightly deeper hull. I've been thinking a hull somewhere in the 10 - 12 degree, maybe up to 15 degree range would work for us. I haven't run the rivers I named above, so I'm not sure if some or all of those need a flatter hull or if I can get away with a deeper one.

I'm also debating inboard vs outboard jet. I like that the outboard frees up a lot of space in the boat. It strikes me that outboards would be easier to maintain and cheaper to repair. Not sure if that's true. I'm also under the impression that outboards will be better on fuel. Again, not totally sure on that.

Here's my list of wants and I'm wondering if you all have suggestions on boats to look at and add to my list. I'll most likely be looking for a used boat, so having a list of models will be helpful when I begin actively searching.

-$30K, give or take a bit. Hard ceiling of $40K and it'd have to be a one-of-a-kind boat.
- Max of 18ft if the trailer has a swing tongue, I have 21 feet of length to play with in my garage.
- Interior room for 2, maybe 3 people fly fishing
- Ability to run some reasonable rivers but also be usable on medium size lakes.
- Not adverse to a tiller model, but a side console would be nice for those longer days (running the Murray up to Kinuseo falls for example)
- Kicker mount
- Ability to bow mount an electric trolling motor for the lake days
- Wide and stable
- A no frills a boat (no livewells, minimal storage compartments etc). I want simplicity, reliability and longevity over frills. I can add accessories if I want.


Anything else I should be considering?

Boats that I've seen which pique my interest are the Coyote 160 Otter (seems pretty narrow and interior layout is poor), Explorer Industries 172 (most likely too flat a bottom) and the Hewescraft Open Fisherman (might be too deep a V for rivers?). The Firefish Frenzy looks nice and it seems like a 12deg hull is an option, but I expect it's way out of my price range even used

[fuzzybiscuit]

Something along the lines of my old Explorer 166 would work. I've taken it out in 4' chop without and issue and ran it in 4" of water. 8 degree tunnel hull, full length 4' wide teflon skid plate and 16-1/2' long. Tons of room for 2 with room still for the whole family with the back bench seating. It packs a load too.

https://i.postimg.cc/N0KsVjHz/5154-B848-E8-E5-4447-9-E2-E-089-C8297-AA37.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/HLBNsb01/AEC25-B00-D220-44-E6-926-A-ADE2868-A24-B9.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/Jz67PkGX/9084-C515-84-AD-4397-B611-09-C81-A9-B8642.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[FlyingHigh]

That looks really nice! Something like that, especially if I could get an open bow, would probably be the ticket.

[Redthies]

Or you could go a similar route to me. I just ordered a 17’ mod-v all welded Jon boat. You can get one with a center or side console. Tons of deck room to fish, and capacity for a load too. I went with a 50 hp prop motor, as all my research into prop vs jet landed my uses back into prop country. I will use the boat in rivers too, but none so skinny that I need a jet. The hull I ordered has a 7* deadrise, so while not ideal for really rough stuff, it will be way better than the flat bottom I currently fish.

https://i.postimg.cc/sXJWBqGb/52-DC7-A85-F66-F-4-B8-B-BCC1-14495-E727485.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gXnjQMDK)

https://i.postimg.cc/X7rWX5Tg/1-E9-C574-A-BAFB-43-EA-BB84-39-A22-FAD9383.jpg (https://postimg.cc/bsfWBZYG)

[MRP]

That looks really nice! Something like that, especially if I could get an open bow, would probably be the ticket.

A water tight hatch but not a open bow. If you’re going out in only good calm days with bikini girls, ok. But to go down bigger lakes, storms happen. One dive into a big wave your done.

[emerson]

Or you could go a similar route to me. I just ordered a 17’ mod-v all welded Jon boat. You can get one with a center or side console. Tons of deck room to fish, and capacity for a load too. I went with a 50 hp prop motor, as all my research into prop vs jet landed my uses back into prop country. I will use the boat in rivers too, but none so skinny that I need a jet. The hull I ordered has a 7* deadrise, so while not ideal for really rough stuff, it will be way better than the flat bottom I currently fish.

https://i.postimg.cc/sXJWBqGb/52-DC7-A85-F66-F-4-B8-B-BCC1-14495-E727485.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gXnjQMDK)

https://i.postimg.cc/X7rWX5Tg/1-E9-C574-A-BAFB-43-EA-BB84-39-A22-FAD9383.jpg (https://postimg.cc/bsfWBZYG)
That’s a real nice setup. I had an 18 Crestliner that I went 50 go jet with, but my biggest learning applies to boats and vehicles too. (Had a 4 cylinder Ranger pickup once.) Buy close to the most powerful motor the boat is rated for. It’s more efficient running at 1/2 throttle most of the time and when you are heavy or need some speed it’s there for you. A smaller motor is a false economy.

[Ride Red]

To start off, no boat is perfect. To make this short, a boat to run rivers, cruise lakes and be somewhat easier in the rough water, I’d chose a 12 degree hull. In saying this, water entry or front v of the boat makes a big difference. Example, Firefish boats are 12 degree entry but 8 degree running so you can cut the chop and run skinny water. 21’ of garage doesn’t afford much room as my 18’ is 26’ long to hitch. A swing hitch will shorten 2-3ft so keep that in mind unless you have an alternative storage spot. Price, that’s the other if, as boats are a premium right now even used ones. Don’t be in a hurry, figure your needs out first and view as many as possible. Then don’t be afraid to ask more questions before you pull the trigger.

[fuzzybiscuit]

To start off, no boat is perfect.

You’re right. Every boat is a compromise and a guy really needs at least 3-4 different ones to adequately cover all the bases. :D

[FlyingHigh]

Or you could go a similar route to me. I just ordered a 17’ mod-v all welded Jon boat. You can get one with a center or side console. Tons of deck room to fish, and capacity for a load too. I went with a 50 hp prop motor, as all my research into prop vs jet landed my uses back into prop country. I will use the boat in rivers too, but none so skinny that I need a jet. The hull I ordered has a 7* deadrise, so while not ideal for really rough stuff, it will be way better than the flat bottom I currently fish.

https://i.postimg.cc/sXJWBqGb/52-DC7-A85-F66-F-4-B8-B-BCC1-14495-E727485.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gXnjQMDK)

https://i.postimg.cc/X7rWX5Tg/1-E9-C574-A-BAFB-43-EA-BB84-39-A22-FAD9383.jpg (https://postimg.cc/bsfWBZYG)

I've been considering something along those lines. My biggest issue with those boats is the seating. Having a passenger or two means them sitting on the deck or standing. That wouldn't be much fun for extended trips like running the Murray up to Kinuseo. Not sure if I want higher sides yet though or not as well.


A water tight hatch but not a open bow. If you’re going out in only good calm days with bikini girls, ok. But to go down bigger lakes, storms happen. One dive into a big wave your done.

If the waves get that big, I'm off the water. The biggest lakes I'm likely to hit are the size of Sheridan. I might get out to Dinosaur or Williston near FSJ at some point for lakers but once the white caps start I'm generally off the water.


To start off, no boat is perfect. To make this short, a boat to run rivers, cruise lakes and be somewhat easier in the rough water, I’d chose a 12 degree hull. In saying this, water entry or front v of the boat makes a big difference. Example, Firefish boats are 12 degree entry but 8 degree running so you can cut the chop and run skinny water. 21’ of garage doesn’t afford much room as my 18’ is 26’ long to hitch. A swing hitch will shorten 2-3ft so keep that in mind unless you have an alternative storage spot. Price, that’s the other if, as boats are a premium right now even used ones. Don’t be in a hurry, figure your needs out first and view as many as possible. Then don’t be afraid to ask more questions before you pull the trigger.

Great info, thanks! I actually have 23ft in my garage, but it'd require some less than ideal rearranging to make full use of it. A swing hitch is a must for me. I'm leaning towards a 17ft boat in general though I have been looking at the Coyote 180 Otter. It'd be really pushing my max length capabilities but I love the layout and size of the boat. I'm in no hurry though, we're at least a year out. I'm definitely waiting to see if prices stabilize and come down in the next little while.


You’re right. Every boat is a compromise and a guy really needs at least 3-4 different ones to adequately cover all the bases. :D

The wife has no problem with me owning multiple boats but storage and finances are limiting. I could probably get away with 3; my 12ft jon boat for flyfishing stillwaters, a big lake boat that could also go on the ocean in protected waters and a skinny water jet boat. Now, I need to come up with $100K+ and find storage. Therein lies the issue.

[Ride Red]

It’s personal preference, but I’m not a fan of the windshield in the middle of a boat. It takes up valuable space behind cover. The otter jet hull design is different than a standard tunnel hull too and should be tested on choppy water to see how it challenges cavitation. Outboard jets can cavitate considerably if not setup properly cause of their small intake system. If you do lean towards this boat, make sure you run one to satisfy yourself.
Windsor Motorsports in GP is a dealer for Firefish boats. Steve builds some real nice tunnel hull 15’-16’ tillers or center consoles that are wide, roomy and built to handle anything you throw at it. Again, price will be your limit. As far as boats stabilizing in price, it’s all dependent on the metal industry which is still crazy and no sign of letting off yet. If you’re handy, you could buy a hull, trim it out the way you like and power it. There are tons of options out there; get what you want/can afford, don’t just settle on what’s around you. If you need more info, Pm me.

[FlyingHigh]

It’s personal preference, but I’m not a fan of the windshield in the middle of a boat. It takes up valuable space behind cover. The otter jet hull design is different than a standard tunnel hull too and should be tested on choppy water to see how it challenges cavitation. Outboard jets can cavitate considerably if not setup properly cause of their small intake system. If you do lean towards this boat, make sure you run one to satisfy yourself.
Windsor Motorsports in GP is a dealer for Firefish boats. Steve builds some real nice tunnel hull 15’-16’ tillers or center consoles that are wide, roomy and built to handle anything you throw at it. Again, price will be your limit. As far as boats stabilizing in price, it’s all dependent on the metal industry which is still crazy and no sign of letting off yet. If you’re handy, you could buy a hull, trim it out the way you like and power it. There are tons of options out there; get what you want/can afford, don’t just settle on what’s around you. If you need more info, Pm me.

I'll swing into Windsor and have a chat with them to see if a Firefish is even doable in my price range.

Any thoughts on inboard vs outboard in terms of fuel consumption, reliability and ease of maintenance?

[Ride Red]

They all burn fuel, but an outboard will be somewhat easier. Not sure of how an outboard jet is on fuel though. Boat stands for “bring on another thousand” for a reason. Buy what will suit your needs and get out to enjoy it. If it sits in the garage cause it’s too expensive to use, then it’s not worth having.

[emerson]

I'll swing into Windsor and have a chat with them to see if a Firefish is even doable in my price range.

Any thoughts on inboard vs outboard in terms of fuel consumption, reliability and ease of maintenance?
OB jet costs more for the same power and is less efficient. Not sure about the prop side, although to OB leaves more space in a small boat either way.

[FlyingHigh]

They all burn fuel, but an outboard will be somewhat easier. Not sure of how an outboard jet is on fuel though. Boat stands for “bring on another thousand” for a reason. Buy what will suit your needs and get out to enjoy it. If it sits in the garage cause it’s too expensive to use, then it’s not worth having.

Tha makes sense. I fully expect to burn $100 - $150/day on fuel on a river and maybe half that on a lake. Totally acceptable for the experiences a boat will bring. We really want a boat to use and not just take ip space, hence the research beginning so early . We want to pick the best boat for long term use.


OB jet costs more for the same power and is less efficient. Not sure about the prop side, although to OB leaves more space in a small boat either way.

Good to know. The open space in the boat is really attractive especially since we're looking at boats 18ft and under.

[emerson]

And an OB is easy to change/upgrade. Not cheap mind you.

[tigrr]

1 Buy new.
2 learn by example of people you talk to.
3 buy bigger than you think you need. (moose, 6 friends, 45 gallon barrel of extra fuel.)

[FlyingHigh]

1 Buy new.
2 learn by example of people you talk to.
3 buy bigger than you think you need. (moose, 6 friends, 45 gallon barrel of extra fuel.)

Any reason not to buy used if the price and condition are good?

I plan to get involved with a local river boat club, so hopefully I'll get to know people and pick their brains.

I'm limited in size by storage space, but I plan to buy as big as I can squeeze in. Dunno about 6 friends. I prefer to fish/hunt alone or with my wife only. LOL

[Ride Red]

No issues buying used, just do your homework and be thorough before purchase. Anyone trying to rush the sale, just walk away.

[Albertacoyotecaller]

Try to find a 12-8 degree variable. If you can't find a variable go with a 12 degree. Being on a lake in an 8 degree with any wave action is teeth shattering. There are decent 12 degrees out there in your price range.

[thick]

As others have mentioned, buy the boat that best suits your ‘main’ needs. Boats burn lotsa fuel and maintenance, insurance and gadgets aren’t cheap either. It is not a cheap hobby so expect to continue to spend at least $1k per year on maintenance/upgrades. I’m $900 on top of that for boat insurance and another $50 for the trailer annually.

Went on a boat camping trip with buddy recently. His 20’ Outlaw with a 240 SJ was burning 14 gallons/hr on the lake cruising at 23-24mph and I was burning 3.5 GPH with an 18’ kingfisher with 115hp outboard prop job at same speed. Both with similar loads but his boat is way heavier and packs more fuel. My point being, he’s burning 56litres/hr on a lake, that will increase significantly pushing upstream on a river. At $1.50/litre these days, your $100-$150/day in fuel on the river could be way out to lunch depending what you buy.

Just an FYI so there’s no surprises when your costs are potentially higher than expected


Tha makes sense. I fully expect to burn $100 - $150/day on fuel on a river and maybe half that on a lake. Totally acceptable for the experiences a boat will bring. We really want a boat to use and not just take ip space, hence the research beginning so early . We want to pick the best boat for long term use.



Good to know. The open space in the boat is really attractive especially since we're looking at boats 18ft and under.

[FlyingHigh]

As others have mentioned, buy the boat that best suits your ‘main’ needs. Boats burn lotsa fuel and maintenance, insurance and gadgets aren’t cheap either. It is not a cheap hobby so expect to continue to spend at least $1k per year on maintenance/upgrades. I’m $900 on top of that for boat insurance and another $50 for the trailer annually.

Went on a boat camping trip with buddy recently. His 20’ Outlaw with a 240 SJ was burning 14 gallons/hr on the lake cruising at 23-24mph and I was burning 3.5 GPH with an 18’ kingfisher with 115hp outboard prop job at same speed. Both with similar loads but his boat is way heavier and packs more fuel. My point being, he’s burning 56litres/hr on a lake, that will increase significantly pushing upstream on a river. At $1.50/litre these days, your $100-$150/day in fuel on the river could be way out to lunch depending what you buy.

Just an FYI so there’s no surprises when your costs are potentially higher than expected

Good points to keep in mind. I thought the sportjet was supposed to be better on fuel. I'm hoping a smaller lighter boat will burn less gas. I've seen posts from people running boats like the Explorer 162 and 172 with outboards say they can run all day on a tank of fuel. Other forums have guys reporting 6 to 10gph depending on size of boat and how fast they run. I certainly need to research it.

I'm fully ready for the insurance, maintenance and upkeep costs. My only real concern is the fuel. If $300 - $400 /day is typical I may have to reconsider a river boat. Again, this is where the research comes in. I'm looking forward to meeting folks at the local club to talk with them.

[emerson]

Good points to keep in mind. I thought the sportjet was supposed to be better on fuel. I'm hoping a smaller lighter boat will burn less gas. I've seen posts from people running boats like the Explorer 162 and 172 with outboards say they can run all day on a tank of fuel. Other forums have guys reporting 6 to 10gph depending on size of boat and how fast they run. I certainly need to research it.

I'm fully ready for the insurance, maintenance and upkeep costs. My only real concern is the fuel. If $300 - $400 /day is typical I may have to reconsider a river boat. Again, this is where the research comes in. I'm looking forward to meeting folks at the local club to talk with them.
It’s all about how big and heavy the boat is. A 20’ Outlaw is heavy. I would say it needs a V-8, but that’s $$$. Hauling 3-4 guys and gear for days is heavy. Hauling my 5th wheel will run me $40-$50/hr on the highway. Nothing is cheap these days. A 13’-15’ sport jet center console with lots of stringers and not much else is my river boat dream. A generic 17’ lake boat with an OB at the top end of the scale power wise is the solution for most people.

[FlyingHigh]

It’s all about how big and heavy the boat is. A 20’ Outlaw is heavy. I would say it needs a V-8, but that’s $$$. Hauling 3-4 guys and gear for days is heavy. Hauling my 5th wheel will run me $40-$50/hr on the highway. Nothing is cheap these days. A 13’-15’ sport jet center console with lots of stringers and not much else is my river boat dream. A generic 17’ lake boat with an OB at the top end of the scale power wise is the solution for most people.

For sure. Gotta pay to play, especially these days. I think staying in the 17 - 18ft length will be a good size for me. I'll rarely have 3 people in the boat, probably never actually have more than that. Usually just 2, me and my wife or me and a fishing buddy. As for cargo, mainly fishing gear or lightweight camping gear for a couple days. When it comes to using the boat for hunting, I don't moose hunt but a deer isn't out of the question.

[Bugle M In]

Outboards tend to sip gas while inboards swallow it up.
With the price of gas, that is a "big" consideration.
At least when it comes to saltwater fishing.
I think the newer jet propelled ones are way more efficient, and lose less power these days as compared to early on,
when comparing prop vs jet.

[emerson]

For sure. Gotta pay to play, especially these days. I think staying in the 17 - 18ft length will be a good size for me. I'll rarely have 3 people in the boat, probably never actually have more than that. Usually just 2, me and my wife or me and a fishing buddy. As for cargo, mainly fishing gear or lightweight camping gear for a couple days. When it comes to using the boat for hunting, I don't moose hunt but a deer isn't out of the question.
Sounds like you will be able to find a lot of workable options.

[FlyingHigh]

Sounds like you will be able to find a lot of workable options.

I sure hope so! I think finding something in my price range is going to be the biggest challenge. Going to have to watch the used market for sure. I'm half considering contacting a few builders and seeing what a custom boat would run me as well, since I don't really need anything fancy like livewells, storage hatches etc.

[Rieber]

Save you money. Invest in Goats.

[fuzzybiscuit]

I sure hope so! I think finding something in my price range is going to be the biggest challenge. Going to have to watch the used market for sure. I'm half considering contacting a few builders and seeing what a custom boat would run me as well, since I don't really need anything fancy like livewells, storage hatches etc.

I looked into having Explorer build me another WT166 pretty much like the one I posted earlier in the thread with the exception of a slightly taller windshield, additional stringers, aluminum bow fuel tank full canvas and full Teflon. With a Yammy 115/80 jet on a trailer it would be around $55,000 out the door all said and done.

[Ride Red]

Check out “Mean Chicken” for more ideas/info.

[FlyingHigh]

I looked into having Explorer build me another WT166 pretty much like the one I posted earlier in the thread with the exception of a slightly taller windshield, additional stringers, aluminum bow fuel tank full canvas and full Teflon. With a Yammy 115/80 jet on a trailer it would be around $55,000 out the door all said and done.

Cool, that's a good ballpark to know. I think used will be the most likely route I'll go with my budget.


Check out “Mean Chicken” for more ideas/info.

Will do, thanks!

[geologist]

I'm alone all of the time so I went small. Way easier to launch on your own on a windy day.

Works fine on the lakes and on the Fraser River.

I haven't tried fly fishing from it yet. Going to go to Nicomen Slough and pull out the long rod............ probably get snagged on everything!

https://i.imgur.com/1wOlBvel.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CH2Hz02l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/O2NFNaRl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/t8hlWnXl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/adxbf8ul.jpg

[Arctic Lake]

Geologist . If you don’t mind what model is that Lund ? Length etc.
Thanks!
Arctic Lake
I'm alone all of the time so I went small. Way easier to launch on your own on a windy day.

Works fine on the lakes and on the Fraser River.

I haven't tried fly fishing from it yet. Going to go to Nicomen Slough and pull out the long rod............ probably get snagged on everything!

https://i.imgur.com/1wOlBvel.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CH2Hz02l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/O2NFNaRl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/t8hlWnXl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/adxbf8ul.jpg

[geologist]

It's a 2020 Lund SSV 14'. Rated to 35 HP but I got a good deal on the 25 from Alberni Marine (it was a boat/motor/trailer package).

[FlyingHigh]

I'm alone all of the time so I went small. Way easier to launch on your own on a windy day.

Works fine on the lakes and on the Fraser River.

I haven't tried fly fishing from it yet. Going to go to Nicomen Slough and pull out the long rod............ probably get snagged on everything!

https://i.imgur.com/1wOlBvel.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CH2Hz02l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/O2NFNaRl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/t8hlWnXl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/adxbf8ul.jpg

Those are nice boats and for awhile I really considered the 16ft version. The interior layout isn't ideal though and the boat isn't really designed for running the types of rivers we have up north. I did use a similar boat on the Fraser for a few years though. If all I needed was a deep river and lake boat, a SSV would be on my shortlist though!

[geologist]

I'm very cowardly as I'm always alone so I take NO CHANCES on the Fraser.

[FlyingHigh]

I'm very cowardly as I'm always alone so I take NO CHANCES on the Fraser.

I hear you. It's a big river with lots of hazards and very unforgiving. We used to run it in a 13ft aluminum with a 9.9hp Merc. I don't recommend it unless you're very familiar with the river and the capabilities of your boat. We usually launched at Barrowtown, headed out of the Vedder and turned upstream towards Grassey Island bar. Sometimes we'd launch at Island 22 and head up towards the mouth of the Harrison and Peg Leg bar.

The rivers up here are even less forgiving, hence why I want something with more size and power especially since I'll be taking my wife and eventually a kid with me.

[geologist]

I hear you. It's a big river with lots of hazards and very unforgiving. We used to run it in a 13ft aluminum with a 9.9hp Merc. I don't recommend it unless you're very familiar with the river and the capabilities of your boat. We usually launched at Barrowtown, headed out of the Vedder and turned upstream towards Grassey Island bar. Sometimes we'd launch at Island 22 and head up towards the mouth of the Harrison and Peg Leg bar.

The rivers up here are even less forgiving, hence why I want something with more size and power especially since I'll be taking my wife and eventually a kid with me.
With the 25 and just me this 14' rig is good on the Fraser but I keep my head on a swivel and look for the big floatie things. I'm going to go this Thursday and flyfish cutthroat at Nicomen Slough with the boat so that should be pretty mellow.

I upgraded my VHF radio to an ICOM M94D DSC with AIS so I have lots of warning when the commercial tugs are coming my way.

https://cruisingodyssey.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/IcomM94Dscreen.jpg.png