Global News feature on Trumpeter Swans dying in Abbottsford

[mastercaster]

Saw a feature on the news this morning about how many trumpeter swans have been dying from lead poisoning because the swans inhabit one of the Abby lakes out that way that has a very high lead content. The farmers are asking that shot gun shells be made with shot other than lead since the birds are mistaking it for grit. You'd think they'd know that it already has,,,,guess not.

I can't remember when the switch was made but I know it's been a good long time since the regulation came out where steel shot must be used to hunt waterfowl instead of lead shot so I gotta ask. Are there still hunters out there who are trying to use up the rest of their old lead shot shells or are these ponds still being affected with lead poisoning from when lead shot was still being used so long ago?

[Ride Red]

Lead shot was banned Canada wide in 1999. Would be interesting to know if this is a yearly die off or the first time in many years.

[adriaticum]

From what I read it's a private lake owned by his family.
But why waste a good opportunity to waste taxpayer money.
Ed Fast, supposedly a Conservative MP is sponsoring the petition.
They should perhaps also work on making seat belts mandatory too.

[Bustercluck]

I don’t buy 12 gauge, but I purchased some lead .410” less than 6 months ago. If it’s not banned in 410 I’m assuming you can still buy it in 12 gauge.

[Dirty]

Did any of you read the article? It says the problem was greater this year because they did not erect seasonal exclusion fences on the Washington side due to budget cuts. The Washington side has a higher concentration of lead. This is a legacy issue caused by historic lead contamination. I don’t understand the negativity. The man spearheading the petition states he is a hunter. I think it is a good idea to try and restore the lake.

[Dano]

Lead shot was banned for waterfowl hunting in BC in the mid-1980’s. Lead shot is still ok for upland birds and clays shooting.
Global is anti-gun, anti-hunting. They push that agenda. It wouldn’t take much effort for them to get the facts on this story. Those of us that went to the Parliament buildings in Victoria regarding allocation of LEH for guides and residents will remember Global interviewing the one Sierra Club attendee for the news and barely referenced the crowd or speakers representing hunters.
Ken (blindman on this site) has done work regarding the swans in this area. Wiser lake area on the USA side is a source of lead that effects the swans. Ken will hopefully add some info to this post.
I searched for the article, can someone post a link?

[goatdancer]

I don’t buy 12 gauge, but I purchased some lead .410” less than 6 months ago. If it’s not banned in 410 I’m assuming you can still buy it in 12 gauge.

You can still buy lead shot. It is banned for migratory bird hunting.

[BimmerBob]

Pfft, we all know they died of the covid, they just need to run the PSA test a few more cycles to prove it... ;)

[adriaticum]

Did any of you read the article? It says the problem was greater this year because they did not erect seasonal exclusion fences on the Washington side due to budget cuts. The Washington side has a higher concentration of lead. This is a legacy issue caused by historic lead contamination. I don’t understand the negativity. The man spearheading the petition states he is a hunter. I think it is a good idea to try and restore the lake.

You don't understand the negativity?
Really?

It's a private lake.
If the man starting the petition is a hunter, he was dumping lead into the lake, he owns that lake.
Which part of private lake is the responsibility of Canadian public?
So it's on Washington side, so what does that have to do with Canada?

The petition is about banning lead shot and ammunition everywhere, not about restoring the lake.

[adriaticum]

https://www.abbynews.com/news/abbotsford-petition-says-lead-shot-is-killing-waterfowl-in-judson-lake-and-elsewhere/

http://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-3459

https://savetheswans.ca/

[mastercaster]

You'd think if lead has been banned for over two decades now to hunt waterfowl with you'd figure that any lead from that far back would have sunk into the mud far enough to not affect the birds. And what 's the point of having a petition to switch hunting loads to another material since there hasn't been lead shot shells for waterfowl hunting since the turn of the century? You'd think this farmer behind the petition, since he says he a hunter, would know this. Weird!

[adriaticum]

Vancouver Sun's article

False sub heading
"Petition to remove lead shot from Judson lake"

https://vancouversun.com/health/lead-shot-in-lake-on-b-c-washington-border-killing-trumpeter-swans

But when you read the petition is say nothing about removing lead shot from Judson Lake.

He said-she said.

Petition is about lead ammunition ban, not lead shot elimination.
This guy is not a hunter.
He is an anti-hunter.

[adriaticum]

You'd think if lead has been banned for over two decades now to hunt waterfowl with you'd figure that any lead from that far back would have sunk into the mud far enough to not affect the birds. And what 's the point of having a petition to switch hunting loads to another material since there hasn't been lead shot shells for waterfowl hunting since the turn of the century? You'd think this farmer behind the petition, since he says he a hunter, would know this. Weird!


Lead will leech into water.

[IslandWanderer]

Vancouver Sun's article

False sub heading
"Petition to remove lead shot from Judson lake"

https://vancouversun.com/health/lead-shot-in-lake-on-b-c-washington-border-killing-trumpeter-swans

But when you read the petition is say nothing about removing lead shot from Judson Lake.

He said-she said.

Petition is about lead ammunition ban, not lead shot elimination.

I think that subheadline is doubleplusgood.

[VLD43]

Lead will leech into water.

That statement is completely false and what the anti gun crowd claims. The guys at the Langley gun club had to drill expensive wells to test ground water to prove the the anti's that there was no lead in the ground water despite the club using lead shot for trap and skeet. I am told they test water annually and are continuing to do so.

[pnbrock]

This is an old issue they had problems years back. Maybe dredge and make a water ski park instead.

[adriaticum]

That statement is completely false and what the anti gun crowd claims. The guys at the Langley gun club had to drill expensive wells to test ground water to prove the the anti's that there was no lead in the ground water despite the club using lead shot for trap and skeet. I am told they test water annually and are continuing to do so.


You better have arguments and proof before saying something is false, otherwise you just sound like Jack.
It's common knowledge that lead leeches into water and that's why it's a bad idea to have it around water.

[Angus]

Lead can be soluble in groundwater (and surface water), however that solubility is dictated by the pH (acidity/alkalinity) and hardness of the water. The more acidic the water is, typically the hardness (mg/L CaCo3 equivalent) is lower, and the lead becomes more soluble.

In BC the lead content in drinking water is regulated under the Contaminated Sites Regulation (via Health Canada), and the permissible dissolved lead content in drinking water is 10 ug/L. For freshwater aquatic life use, the permissible dissolved lead content varies from 40 to 160 ug/L and is dependent on hardness of the water.

[VLD43]

You better have arguments and proof before saying something is false, otherwise you just sound like Jack.
It's common knowledge that lead leeches into water and that's why it's a bad idea to have it around water.

As I stated in my earlier post, lead leeching into surface water is the Anti's narrative. I have talked at length with members of the Langley gun club concerning this issue. Because of complaints /concerns raised by the anti's about this very subject, the club was forced to drill test wells and take samples yearly for analysis. In a number of years of them complying, there has not been any traced of lead in the ground water, despite the assertions.

As for lead killing swans, I had a long talk with a biologist from the wildlife branch. His take on things was that in heavily gunned areas there was an abundance of lead shot. Waterfowl they had recovered had a couple of pellets in their digestive tract. The birds were emaciated and had likely died of starvation. He suggested that the lead pellets they found in the birds may have had a contributing effect near the end, but were not the prominent cause of death.

So in closing have a talk with the boys at Langley and let me know what you hear.

[VLD43]

Adriaticum
Here's something for you to chew on.
LeadLead is rarely a contaminant of any significance in natural water. In polluted waters, the total concentration of lead could be as high as 10 mg/l with the dissolved fraction usually less than 0.01 mg/l (Galvin, 1996). Particulate lead is effectively removed by settlement with the aid of coagulants (https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/coagulant) and soluble lead is removed at pH >9 such as would be used in lime softening. Lead in drinking water is mainly introduced through corrosion of plumbing systems containing lead pipes and fittings, brass fixtures and lead compounds used in pipe jointing materials. Except in very low alkalinity waters, lead enters the water not so much from direct contact with the lead pipe wall as from contact with lead-rich corrosion products (https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/corrosion-product) formed as a scale on the pipe wall. The overall solubility of lead in drinking water, referred to as plumbosolvency, is controlled by the solubility of these corrosion products and this in turn is strongly influenced by alkalinity and pH. The waters which are most corrosive towards lead have a low alkalinity (<50 mg/l as CaCO3) and pH <7. Except for very low alkalinity waters (<5 mg/l as CaCO3), increasing pH above 7 dramatically reduces the lead solubility, with a theoretical minimum at a pH of approximately 9.8. At alkalinity levels above around 100 mg/l, lead solubility becomes increasingly less sensitive to changes in pH value. The least plumbosolvent water has a pH greater than 8.5 and alkalinity of between 10 and 80 mg/l as CaCO3 (Schock, 1996; Sheiham, 1981).

[adriaticum]

VLD43, I have chewed on this information you provided.
And I'm right.
Lead leaching into water is the reason we are removing anything with lead pipes or any lead around water.
Listen to what Angus wrote above.
Leaching means dissolving.

You talking with guys in Langley doesn't mean lead doesn't leach in water.
The reason Langley club does not have a lead problem is not because lead does not leach into water.
It's because their property is above any ground water enough that any lead gets filtered out by the time it reaches any ground water.
If there is any ground water under the club's property.

Lead leaching into water is not Anti's narrative, it's a scientific narrative.

[Redthies]

I don’t buy 12 gauge, but I purchased some lead .410” less than 6 months ago. If it’s not banned in 410 I’m assuming you can still buy it in 12 gauge.

Lead shot is only banned for MIGRATORY WATERFOWL hunting. Lead is still legal for upland, small game, large game etc.

[blindman]

Hope this reply is considered essential or it won't be allowed across the border eh. Seriously the lead problem that killed swans a few years ago was traced to Jordan Lake which spans the border just east of Sumas. I did a lot of duty scaring the swans off when they came in to spend the night. Eventually bamboo poles were stuck in the lake close enough together to discourage their landing. The bottom of Jordan is about 18' deep but plants and muck are up within 18"-20" of the surface. It is thought that the plant growth and muck has lifted old lead shot up to be within reach of the swans. The lead came from an old gun club that shot next to the lake.