Williams Lake deer population

[Big7]

After hearing all the horror stories of deer mortality up North, and after seeing some of the effects in the interior, I was wondering if anybody has been hunting west of Williams Lake and if so, how the Mule deer made out last winter?

I meet some old college classmates of mine every year for the Nov 11 long weekend for a deer hunt. We usually set up camp west of Williams Lake...anybody been seeing any deer?

[NaStY]

I shot 2 of them begining of Oct. Saw so many deer up there i lost count....

[wlbc]

Seems pretty much like last year. A few less does Rudi Johnson bridge way.

[Big7]

Thanks guys...hopefully we'll do ok. We usually take one or two bucks home. We're taking a guy for his second deer hunt - hasn't shot one yet so hopefully we can find him one this year - he's pretty excited.

[todbartell]

how did the hunt turn out? any deer in WL?

[Big7]

Notta! Saw some smaller bucks but no biggins! Next year!

[srupp]

HMMMM lots of deer STILL here, only now because of all the hunting activity and hundreds of LEH doe draws in some areas ,the deer.... BOTH bucks and does have been pushed back in the timber...the BIG boyz are still up high ie. Horsefly they were in 12 inches of snow elevation..smaller bucks already down low and the migration towards the Fraser has started in some areas.
Lots of deer being whacked...er harvested but not many big ones..

A guy I know went into Meldrum creek..Steve is from Mission? and he got a buck had a doe tag also and he did NOT get his doe...

Steven

[David Heitsman]

I just returned from a week horseback hunting in the Churn and Empire area. My uncle took a 4 X 3 near the Little Churn that the CO said was the biggest so far he'd checked or seen on foot and it wasn't very big.

I complained about all the yearling bucks and does ("Hunter Opportunity Deer") being taken and he indicated that the deer there are increasing 15% a year and that the hunting pressure wasn't even putting a dent in the population.

I still can't get around the idea of shooting does, that's future 4 points as far as I'm concerned. The land is nowhere near carrying capacity especially when you read about the vast herds there 30 years ago.

As to deer numbers, since we were on horseback, I'm guessing that we rode 75-100 miles total and maybe saw 150 head total. Normally in mid November we see that many per day. The buck we shot was the third we'd seen.

The CO said that with the lack of snow higher up that all that was being killed were the resident deer that don't go back and forth each spring and fall. He actually didn't expect them this year there even for the archery season. If you want to see lots he said to come for a drive in May. I just might.

[Fisher-Dude]

I just returned from a week horseback hunting in the Churn and Empire area. My uncle took a 4 X 3 near the Little Churn that the CO said was the biggest so far he'd checked or seen on foot and it wasn't very big.

I complained about all the yearling bucks and does ("Hunter Opportunity Deer") being taken and he indicated that the deer there are increasing 15% a year and that the hunting pressure wasn't even putting a dent in the population.

I still can't get around the idea of shooting does, that's future 4 points as far as I'm concerned. The land is nowhere near carrying capacity especially when you read about the vast herds there 30 years ago.

As to deer numbers, since we were on horseback, I'm guessing that we rode 75-100 miles total and maybe saw 150 head total. Normally in mid November we see that many per day. The buck we shot was the third we'd seen.

The CO said that with the lack of snow higher up that all that was being killed were the resident deer that don't go back and forth each spring and fall. He actually didn't expect them this year there even for the archery season. If you want to see lots he said to come for a drive in May. I just might.

Yeah, and you're the same guy that thinks mule deer should be on LEH so that you can trophy hunt them. Of course you don't see them bunched up like you did 30 years ago, because we don't get the snows to push them into those big groups like we did back then. Both species of deer are at historic high populations right now throughout most of the province. And that's straight from population inventories and harvest stats. The CO has the population and harvest stats, and works with the biologists to determine the proper seasons for managing the herds.

Of course you complained about families and kids, and old timers, and women, and road hunters, and anyone else who got lucky enough to have a doe tag or found a little buck. As a trophy hunter who represents 3% of BC's hunting population, you really don't want these people out there. You want it all on LEH. The resulting drop in hunter numbers would be great for trophy hunters who then have no "competition".

Sorry, but the push (from both Victoria and the BCWF) is for MORE opportunity and MORE kids out hunting, not for the 3% of hunters who are trophy hunters. So, expect MORE kids, women, old timers, road hunters, bow hunters, and spear chuckers out there shooting your "future trophy" bucks.

Proof's in the pudding they say:

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=16466

[BCrams]

I just returned from a week horseback hunting in the Churn and Empire area. My uncle took a 4 X 3 near the Little Churn that the CO said was the biggest so far he'd checked or seen on foot and it wasn't very big.

I complained about all the yearling bucks and does ("Hunter Opportunity Deer") being taken and he indicated that the deer there are increasing 15% a year and that the hunting pressure wasn't even putting a dent in the population.

I still can't get around the idea of shooting does, that's future 4 points as far as I'm concerned. The land is nowhere near carrying capacity especially when you read about the vast herds there 30 years ago.

As to deer numbers, since we were on horseback, I'm guessing that we rode 75-100 miles total and maybe saw 150 head total. Normally in mid November we see that many per day. The buck we shot was the third we'd seen.

The CO said that with the lack of snow higher up that all that was being killed were the resident deer that don't go back and forth each spring and fall. He actually didn't expect them this year there even for the archery season. If you want to see lots he said to come for a drive in May. I just might.

The CO was bang on with everything he told you.

Was this another guided hunt? I'm surprised with the amount of riding you did. You likely rode your horses right by some of those big resident sage brush bucks!! I havn't failed to see a 160+ buck in that country everytime I go!

[Beaverhunter]

I just got back from 10 days in that area in that time I only saw 3 bucks one was a small 3 which I shot and a guy I was with shot a small 4 point.
However we did see lots of does. I think the the high temps had alot to do with it and the deer haven't started to move into the area yet.

[David Heitsman]

Fisher Dude:

Chill!

Perhaps if you read my posts more carefully you'd note that I only advocated a trophy controlled "area" in BC not the whole mule deer herd as you suggest. Wouldn't it be OK with you and the 97% like you (not!) if the 3% of us who wanted big deer had a place to go with an increased chance for mature animals? If there were only 3 out of 100 of us that wanted trophy animals somehow I would think that our odds of getting drawn would be pretty good.

Secondly I would question the comment that deer are at historic highs province wide when we just finished an incredible die off in the Peace region and mule deer are just now returning to original levels on the Alaska Highway.

BC Rams:

It wasn't a guided hunt. (The local guide this year is not even offering deer hunts as she felt the trophy quality is not there this year) and I have been riding or jetting into the Empire /Churn area once or twice annually for I think 7 years now. I just had a guest at my house this evening that was in there for two weeks with his jet and didn't see a shootable deer. I have taken 4pts the last three years and each one looks to be a cousin of the other. I'' say the biggest one is around 145 but I have seen other hunters with bigger deer so I know that I just missed them. Horses are great for covering the ground quickly but you can overlook things sometimes.

[pitbell]

I agree 100% with David H. I stopped hunting that area 2 seasons ago due to lack of mature deer. It sucks because there's not a more beautiful place in all of BC to hunt deer IMO. I have a better chance of killing a bigger buck around PG than I do at the Ranch. Thats depressing.

[pitbell]

Can anyone post a pic of a good mature muley taken from that general area in the last couple of years? I need my faith renewed.

[Fisher-Dude]

Can anyone post a pic of a good mature muley taken from Gang Ranch/Churn Creek area from the last couple of years? I need my faith renewed.

Shed from the "general area" :roll: that would score close to 200.


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/Fisher-Dude/EspsteinShed1.jpg

[David Heitsman]

Pit bell:

Check your email as I sent some pics of the last few years bucks to you.

[Fisher-Dude]

Interesting, I just had a conversation with one of our COs, and this subject came up. He grew up in Williams Lake in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and still goes back up every year to deer hunt. He said there are WAYYYY more deer in that country now than there were back then. He said a good day for him along the Fraser in the 70s was 6 or 7 deer, and that they had to hunt to find them. Now, he has 30 deer days whenever he goes for his annual hunt.

I guess it all depends who ya talk to, someone who doesn't like other people hunting in "their" area, or someone who doesn't care. :wink:

[Islandeer]

Well boys, just got back from the churn - empire valley country. The migration was definately not on, but a few early deer were moving thu and setling down in the flats. In our 5 man camp we took 4 bucks over 4 days. All of the bucks were taken quite aways back and were carteds or packed out. If you haven't figured it out yet, the classic full migrations are a bygone. They just don't happen with the changed weather patterns, so don't look for a hat rack in their winter range, unless we have a winter. Note to D.H., deer numbers are way up in this area, soooo this means that the whole herd is up... does,fawns,spikes,forks,3pts and yes there are even more trophy class animals too....!! Get off that horse and climb.....

[Avalanche123]

Somewhat off topic but I am not sure if I agree that the deer population is at an all time high however I guess the wording used was "most of the province..." In the areas that I hunt in Region 6, I'd have to say that the population is at an all time low! I have seen one 4 pt,2 three pts, and 0 does! Go figure.....kinda scarey actually. (I do have quite a number of days in also).
In past years, I saw signficantly more deer. Anyway these are my observations from the areas in Region 6 that I hunt.

[srupp]

Islandeer I respectfully disagree with the statement that the classic migration doesnt happen..well.... last year along the Fraser by Gang ranch there were 500 resident deer in their "traditional " areas..those same areas were counted AFTER the migration and the SAME area held 3500 deer..
I believe the migration happens still..glad you had a great hunt and YES it really is a beutiful place to hunt.

Steven

[Islandeer]

Srupp,

Thanks, let me restate, it is very rare for the full migration to occur during the rifle season. I agree,when the deep snow hits up high they come in droves. Your spot produced,on the river boat side!!

[Fisher-Dude]

I stopped in at Churn a couple of years ago to join some buddies for 1 1/2 days of late November 4 point deer season. In that time, I stopped counting at 80 deer, saw about 20 - 25 bucks, one of which was a cranker (but way off and on the move), another good one I put a stalk on that vapourized in a small coulee :confused: on me, somehow :-|, and four or five others were 4 points that we passed on. One buddy shot a respectable 4x5 the day before I got there. All in all, it was some incredible action. Granted, we walked our asses off to get away from the road traffic, but I can't wait to get back there some time and put a week or so into finding a real wall hanger. No lack of deer from my experience, nor from my buddy's stories as he hunts it every year.

[dime]

We hunted north of Williams lake this year and saw fewer deer than in the past. We had a doe draw for 5-02 D and did not fill it in 5 days of hunting. We did see some does but were not able to connect. Not one buck in the time we were there, and usually we see at least a couple a day. Next year we are going to try out Kamloops way.

[CHilko21]

I got my 3 point during any buck season, and I've been spending as much time as possible on horseback, or in a truck, in the bush. I've seen 12-14 bucks, from spikes to a respectable 3x4 and a 5x4 monster, and this was with limited hunting time....when I say limited I mean cramming hunting in between working two jobs and running for miss rodeo canada. My brother and I have both taken deer during the any buck season, and I know Eric saw a number of bucks before getting a shot off on his 4X3. The deer aren't in their winter areas yet, but we really haven't had that much in the way of snow or cold weather to push them there.

[Big7]

Can anyone post a pic of a good mature muley taken from that general area in the last couple of years? I need my faith renewed.
After the wind ripped our awning off the 5th wheel on the highway, a fellow was nice enough to stop to see if we needed help although I think he mostly wanted to stop so that we could see the big mulie he had in the back of his truck!! Nicest buck I saw on that trip!! Should've got his picture with it - it was a good one, typical Chilcotin buck....black, heavy antlered mature buck....prob mid 160 to 170. I definately wouldn't have passed him up! They're still around, just have to have more than a couple of days to hunt and maybe have the weather cooperate!