Offensive ad...

[BCHunterFSJ]

Check out the Wild Sheep Raffles advertisment in the latest issue of BC Outdoors magazine (p.17).
Normally I have absolutely no problem with pictures of dead animals... This one, however, was quite offensive and in poor taste!
I can just imagine what a non-hunter or anti-hunter would think of this photo. I am surprised that the BCWF sanctioned the use of this photo in the BCWF section of the magazine. And how about the Wild Sheep Society?

[Harvest the Land]

Personally don't think its offensive in any way and not in poor taste - its a friggin' hunting magazine ffs! There's no guts or gruesomeness at all. I wonder just how many anti's or non-hunters subscribe to BC Outdoors anyway.

Could only ever dream of harvesting a 9 pointer. Congrats to those lucky gents

[Weatherby Fan]

Lets see the picture ? you mean the one with the Elk caped out ?

[BCHunterFSJ]

Could only ever dream of harvesting a 9 pointer. Congrats to those lucky gents

I agree 100%...

[BCHunterFSJ]

https://i.postimg.cc/25mQwKpd/IMG-1058.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[nature girl]

I see nothing wrong with that picture at all.

[B-rad]

seems alright to me,,it is after all a hunting/fishing mag,,,,,,,would be like scrolling through a playboy mag and being shocked to see boobs

[fuzzybiscuit]

Check out the Wild Sheep Raffles advertisment in the latest issue of BC Outdoors magazine (p.17).
Normally I have absolutely no problem with pictures of dead animals... This one, however, was quite offensive and in poor taste!
I can just imagine what a non-hunter or anti-hunter would think of this photo. I am surprised that the BCWF sanctioned the use of this photo in the BCWF section of the magazine. And how about the Wild Sheep Society?

Some people would find it offensive just because there isn’t a person of colour in the photo...or is that what you’re getting at?

Let’s just say they are Métis and all will be forgiven.

[Gateholio]

https://i.postimg.cc/25mQwKpd/IMG-1058.jpg (https://postimages.org/)



Do you have a pic of the offensive ad?

[goatdancer]

If that is offensive then all the supermarket ads showing slabs of meat should be considered offensive.

[huntcoop]

Do you have a pic of the offensive ad?

:lol: nicely played

[Brew]

I’m offended I’m not the one holding one of those Brutes

[Rob Chipman]

Check out the Wild Sheep Raffles advertisment in the latest issue of BC Outdoors magazine (p.17).
I am surprised that the BCWF sanctioned the use of this photo in the BCWF section of the magazine. And how about the Wild Sheep Society?


I'll look into it but there are probably three things worth mentioning.

First, we all talk about how grip and grin photos can be counter-productive. Now, I wouldn't classify the pic as offensive or in poor taste, but I can still allow that there are some low information/high emotion people in the world who would lose their minds over it (which is kind of why we talk about grip and grins being counter-productive). Might have been an unwise move publishing it.

Mind you, in second place is the fact that there are a lot of hunters who recognize that some people lose their minds at pics like that but don't want to pretend that we don't do what we actually do. It's tough to navigate who a hunting organization/publication is supposed to make happy - the vegan ARA or the regular hunter.

Third, I'm not sure BCWF has editorial control over what ads BCO runs. I'll look into that, but you might be making some unwarranted assumptions. I might be wrong but I've never heard of anyone at BCWF being in a position to approve or disapprove BCO content, and I do remember past issues where we had to talk to BCO after the fact and remind them who the audience actually is.

[BCHunterFSJ]

I'll look into it but there are probably three things worth mentioning.

First, we all talk about how grip and grin photos can be counter-productive. Now, I wouldn't classify the pic as offensive or in poor taste, but I can still allow that there are some low information/high emotion people in the world who would lose their minds over it (which is kind of why we talk about grip and grins being counter-productive). Might have been an unwise move publishing it.

Mind you, in second place is the fact that there are a lot of hunters who recognize that some people lose their minds at pics like that but don't want to pretend that we don't do what we actually do. It's tough to navigate who a hunting organization/publication is supposed to make happy - the vegan ARA or the regular hunter.

Third, I'm not sure BCWF has editorial control over what ads BCO runs. I'll look into that, but you might be making some unwarranted assumptions. I might be wrong but I've never heard of anyone at BCWF being in a position to approve or disapprove BCO content, and I do remember past issues where we had to talk to BCO after the fact and remind them who the audience actually is.

Thank you for your thoughts!

[Rob Chipman]

I have confirmed that we do not review any ad copy prior to publication.

I can also add that we're working on our relationship with the publishers of BCO not that we're unhappy, but we can always improve.

Do you want me to have your concern brought up and discussed with those doing that work?

[Redthies]

My main objection comes from not being along on that hunt, but I do see where non-hunters may get squeamish from the furless heads with eyeballs. A head still fur covered or a completed euro mount are less macabre to the huddled masses who think meat comes ifrom aisle 20 at Safeway.

[Arctic Lake]

I would agree with you ! It doesn’t bother me but I’m a hunter ,but I could see how it would bother some squeamish types Arctic Lake

My main objection comes from not being along on that hunt, but I do see where non-hunters may get squeamish from the furless heads with eyeballs. A head still fur covered or a completed euro mount are less macabre to the huddled masses who think meat comes ifrom aisle 20 at Safeway.

[Bugle M In]

I am going with the "could have been better" camp.
I have pictures myself with similar reflection for sure, but i am a hunter and i get it.

But, those are private, especially these days.
And in that is my point, as things that are for public consumption doesn't always mean the viewer has the stomach or knowledge for it or behind it.

I am getting older, and view things differently i suppose now.
But there is also a large force out there now that really wants us gone.
Just had the Skeena FN say they don't like seeing folks "playing with their food". (catch and release fishing)
Next will be them stating we are only hunting "for bone" etc, and thus be banned from it too:roll:.

It is only 1 photo and only 1 second in the entire time of the hunt.
But then again, many say a picture "says a thousand words".
In this case, it does "not", and as hunters we know that.
Anyone else outside, wont get any other message from hunting other than that which you see.

[warnniklz]

Being that it's in BC Outdoors magazine...
The magazine is targeted towards outdoor people. Blood and guts is part of the process. Anyone that's against hunting and looking in BC Outdoors are there to find something to be offended by in the first place.
Look how nice safari photos are. Animals all clean and basically look like they're sleeping. Anti hunters (and some hunters) still get offended by that.

That said:
I wasn't even aware of the picture until pointed out here. Soooo... ya

The more we cower in the darkness, the more outcast we become.

[Redthies]

The fact that one of our members even brought it to our attention means it might not be the best photo to run. It being in BCO does help target audience, but non-hunters and antis DO occasionally look at magazines. They might not realize that BC Outdoors is a hunt/fish mag and be in for a surprise. I’m sure those types will find even the mildest images appalling, but that’s just how it is. This particular photo might just be a bit too far for some to handle

[S.W.A.T.]

Sorry but I am confused. What is the offensive part?


I feel like this all goes back to "as hunters we need to watch what we say and do". No, as hunters we need to be proud of our accomplishments and embrace the the lifestyle and share/educate others on how a legitimate harvest takes place.

[Linksman313]

WSS displaying elk pics for their raffle? Not sheep?
have to check the actual magazine i guess.

[Bugle M In]

When i said "a picture can say a thousand words", a few paintings come to mind.
A man, lost at sea, shipwrecked, struggling to stay alive from the heat and man eating sharks waiting for the boat to sink.
Or the one with a early settler, probably headed to the Yukon during the goldrush, with a train of mules behind him on a
sharp ledge of a 500ft cliff, and one mule beginning to buck. (which is jackass mtn by the way).

Those images put you into the seen, and tells a lot in a way before a person gets to the "Exact moment in time"
(does for me anyways)

I just think "others" when they see a pic like that, "dont get the full story" as to "why we hunt".
I bet if you ask those guys in the photo itself if that truly "reflects the hunt" that they were on when they got those elk, they
would have to "describe the hunt", as that pic does not do that.

May are right here, it is a hunting magazine, so the intended target i hunters and we all get it.
And i agree with everyone saying the same.
Bu then again, these magazines will never be found in your doctors offices either.
And hunting is a "dying tradition".
So, it is hard to gain membership other than just word of mouth as it surely wont come from a magazine anymore.
Kind of limits the publication to if i dont mind saying.

I would much rather see a pic of a goat hunter creeping up some sheer rock with pack on and a goat in the background.
That says a lot more about hunting. (granted, that is a hard photo to capture!)

I know how i feel on the subject, BUT, i also see the other side of the coin and why most everyone on this
thread is scratching their head as to "why any hunter would consider it offensive".
This type of pic to me reflects the end result, but really reflects so very little of the actual hunt that came before it.
You know, the time most spent when out in the field hunting.

Remember, there are a lot of non hunters that are not antis, BUT, they also always wonder "why is it we hunt".
We don't need more Anti's, imo, but we need a lot more "pro hunting".
So, shouldn't we be the ones giving that to them??
That's why i look at that particular photo and think that this one falls more into the Antis court.
But hey, lets not worry about tomorrow!, lets just live for today?

[BCHunterFSJ]

I guess I'm not very popular with quite a few folks on this forum these days. I really was not trying to piss anybody off - merely commenting on one particular photo.
I have been a hunter for 60 years now and have seen many dead animals. Pictures of dead animals have never bothered me until I saw the "offending" photo. Those skinned out heads with all the blood and gore and bits of skin and eyeballs just didn't appeal to me. I was a an outdoor magazine writer and photographer for many years.
I would never have submitted a photo like this for publication. Unfortunately, in this day and age of anti-hunting sentiments, this is more important than ever. These days, most of the outdoor magazines out there (and I read them all), including BC Oudoors, have written articles about how we hunters should be careful about how we represent ourselves to the general public.. This is, of course, especially in terms of social media. I am NOT advocating that we should be be ashamed of what it is we do or try to hide it.
I am proud to be a hunter! I have posted more than my share of dead animal pics on this forum. I, personally, don't even have a problem seeing such pictures on a hunting forum. It is when they appear in mainstream publications that I begin to worry.
Thank you for all your comments, both pro and con...

[BCHunterFSJ]

I have confirmed that we do not review any ad copy prior to publication.

I can also add that we're working on our relationship with the publishers of BCO not that we're unhappy, but we can always improve.

Do you want me to have your concern brought up and discussed with those doing that work?

It would not hurt to mention it...

[Rob Chipman]

FSJ:

I will forward your comments (as well as the counters).

I think we're all clear- it's not that this pic grosses us hunters out. It's the question of whether we should worry about offending non-hunters and thereby not be open as open and honest about ourselves as we are when it's just other hunters, or whether we should tell non-hunters that this is who we are and what we do and they need to get used to it.

That's a tough needle to thread, but I think everyone can rest assured that we're trying to thread it properly.

Given the current state of outcry over protecting wolves and not following science I personally tend to be more aligned with you, but I sure would like to change the current tone so that we don't have to walk on eggshells.

[Bugle M In]

So, i decided to take the photo and go to the dog park and mingle with friends over the last 2 years now since i have a dog.
They are great people, and all know i hunt thru plenty of discussions i have had with them.
(I try to do my part to help inform the uniformed why I/we hunt whenever i can).
Most of them have always been city folks, and most have never been exposed to hunting and a couple are even vegetarians.
(not against eating meat but do the vegetarian lifestyle for health reasons)

I asked them to tell me what kind of story, if any, the photo told them or how they looked at it.
No surprise to me, but everyone basically saw it as a some guys that where happy they "killed something" and yes, some
figured out they were also of "decent antler size.
It told them nothing else and actually some felt like the elk where killed for their size.
I wasn't surprised.

Every time i talk to someone about hunting, who is "not opposed" to hunting, ALWAYS, say the same thing:
"as long as the people hunting do it for the meat".
Every time!
I asked if they have any impression that it was for meat or anything else they could think of.
"Not really" and didn't care to look at it more then needed to be.

Then i showed them a photo of a hunt i did, and yup, there are antlers in the pic, and smiles too,
but there are backpacks and bikes, and a lot of sweat.
Now, maybe because i was in the photo and they know me??
But, instantly they started to ask questions about the fact i hunt on mtn bike.
Also they could see that it wasn't just a smile due to success, but a moment between friends and family.
And, they could tell it was "hard work".
(And please, i am not trying to say those fellows didn't work their asses off, it just doesn't particularly show in "that photo".

Also, i am not trying to say that if we change things, that it will make any difference.
It may not make one bit of difference.

I will only add this.
In the 70's my dad and his friends had no issues strapping their elk/moose/goat/deer to a car as they drove thru vancouver into
tsawwassen, and never had many foul looks from folks as hunting was generally accepted by most.
By the 90's, if you lived in the city, you had to start thinking twice, and was probably better to keep things under a tarp.
Rural folks were still cool with seeing someone's success going thru town.
But, how many of those towns are places some have to think twice about now???

Since the 70's, hunters #'s have dropped.
Yet BC's population has significantly increased.
Very few Anti's at the time, and a lot of folks either supporting hunting or at least "unopposed".
Now, hunter #s still decline as compared to population, anti's have increased because those that once were unopposed are now
in the opposed camp.
And worse, hunting opportunities and species that can be hunted are slowly declining as well (with more on the short list to come).

So, does carrying the same mentality that others should "just accept it, or it is as it is and they have to get over it" going to help?
Has it helped?
It's been 50 years of this mentality.
And i dont see it having been a benefit, at least when it comes to the #'s in the "support camp".
And maybe nothing will, but it is at least worth "looking at ourselves" and changing ourselves if we ever expect others to see
us differently and potentially for the better and accepted as a lifestyle worth considering and more importantly, allowing to
continue.

[Redthies]

Most of them have always been city folks, and most have never been exposed to hunting and a couple are even vegetarians. (not against eating meat but do the vegetarian lifestyle for health reasons)


And they didn't care to look at it more then needed to be.

The last sentence clinched it for me. “They didn’t care to look at it more than needed be”. That says that it was not something that they could really explore to get the feel for the hunt. They were likely a bit uncomfortable looking at the blood covered bones with eyes looking out. I, as a hunter, get why it was done,but to the huddled masses, shiver never looked into taxidermy options, they could only see that as “gore”.

There is a HUGE difference between the photo that led to all this discussion, and one like the one I’ve attached below. Both are photos of successful hunts, but one really warrants a long look to really soak it all in. You pick which one that is...

https://i.postimg.cc/FRTfxhvh/EA60-BDD1-D0-B9-4-D52-8889-0-C220908630-B.png (https://postimg.cc/R6nVS5qY)

[Bugle M In]

^^^^Yup.
Want people to see and somehow feel what it is to hunt.
What it can offer, what captures us and draws us back time and time again.
And no one bats 100% each time out, so there has to be something more to it.
We know that, and they need to be exposed to that.

Sadly, hunting and the recent gun law changes both have one thing in common.
The majority of folks dont hunt, dont own guns.
If majority did own guns, no government would ever consider introducing these new laws.
And, the public would be "well informed" on why taking guns away from law abiding citizens isnt going to stop the bs we have
seen around the LM this last week.
But that is not the case...dont own, dont know.

Same is for hunting, it is declining, it isnt even staying at par with the current % of increase in BC populations over the years.
If most folks did hunt or supported it, they would get the photo 100%.
But since they dont, and are #'s continue to decline, we need their support.
We need to get them to "see".
And that magazine photo wont cut it.

[Redthies]

I don’t follow the media at all... what “BS” did we see in the lml? I did have to go to the island for work and there was a whole stac of BCO in the front row of the magazine rack in the on-board gift shop, so I opened it up and look, there was that photo. Not really sure why there is an elk photo in WSS ad in the first place?

[Redthies]

Just saw the gang news after looking. Cactus Club food is so full of sodium, you’re taking your life in your hands eating there as is, without the added risk of gunshots... Gang violence has nothing to do with us, but as we all know, there will be a whole bunch of anti gun comments etc on the horizon. It would be nice if the RCMP would release to media whether or not the guns used in these shootings were legal or not once they get that info. Not that the media would ever report the results.

[303savage]

"Some people would find it offensive" . I think some peoples first thought when they wake up is What can I be offended about today

[guntech]

No doubt a picture without blood and and empty eye sockets looks so much better...

I believe Europeans often pose the dead animal with a little grass in it's mouth... as if it died happily...

[BRvalley]

I guess I'm not very popular with quite a few folks on this forum these days. I really was not trying to piss anybody off - merely commenting on one particular photo.
I have been a hunter for 60 years now and have seen many dead animals. Pictures of dead animals have never bothered me until I saw the "offending" photo. Those skinned out heads with all the blood and gore and bits of skin and eyeballs just didn't appeal to me. I was a an outdoor magazine writer and photographer for many years.
I would never have submitted a photo like this for publication. Unfortunately, in this day and age of anti-hunting sentiments, this is more important than ever. These days, most of the outdoor magazines out there (and I read them all), including BC Oudoors, have written articles about how we hunters should be careful about how we represent ourselves to the general public.. This is, of course, especially in terms of social media. I am NOT advocating that we should be be ashamed of what it is we do or try to hide it.
I am proud to be a hunter! I have posted more than my share of dead animal pics on this forum. I, personally, don't even have a problem seeing such pictures on a hunting forum. It is when they appear in mainstream publications that I begin to worry.
Thank you for all your comments, both pro and con...


I can understand the point you were making, I didn't think it is a stretch for most to try to understand it, perhaps not offensive but I would agree to call it poor taste...it was more than just a magazine, I also thought about why they chose that pic when WSS posted it on their FB

the lady who killed the wolf sure didn't get a lot of sympathy from this forum, what's the difference really?

dead wolf pics = bad
dead ungulates = good?

[Bugle M In]

I can understand the point you were making, I didn't think it is a stretch for most to try to understand it, perhaps not offensive but I would agree to call it poor taste...it was more than just a magazine, I also thought about why they chose that pic when WSS posted it on their FB

the lady who killed the wolf sure didn't get a lot of sympathy from this forum, what's the difference really?

dead wolf pics = bad
dead ungulates = good?
I am going to put this out there, and see what others think.

We talk about "brainwashing" thru repetitive media, which is worst then ever, but has existed forever.
Have we allowed our "own industry" to brain wash us?
What do i mean?

Well, much of what we see on tv or magazines, which was the main way to "advertise" or get the message out there, was and
still is (if you look at many of the hunting shows on tv), is from folks (usually GO's) trying to "sell their hunts".
Sure, how to hunt such and such (to a degree) , but really, it is to showcase their company, to get as many clients as possible.
And, what do they showcase most, to convince you to go there?
IT's "we've got the biggest antlered such in such anywhere around".
And sometimes its a shame, because i know a GO right now that cant find many clients, because the hunting is piss poor in his
territory.
But damn, the territory is beautiful none the less.

But haven't we brain washed ourselves when it comes to hunting.
We just have to show off the rack, the bone, the length.
Its just become inherent in us to do so, to expect to do so etc.

But, is that the only reason we hunt or fish???
I don't think so.
We have allowed the industry to make us look like that's all we care about.
Because they are selling themselves to you because you need to have the biggest buck in the valley.
And in the end, that is the message the non hunting public sees.

We have to do better.
We have to rebrand hunting.
We have to show folks "Why we hunt".
Not just that miniscule moment in time when it actually comes together and it just so happened to be a tank.

We have to rethink "who we are and why we do it"
Fix ourselves first and then other can start to see what it is really about.
Just my thoughts.

[guntech]

the lady who killed the wolf sure didn't get a lot of sympathy from this forum, what's the difference really?

dead wolf pics = bad
dead ungulates = good?

I got flak from some friends and relatives when I posted this pic... then I explained how all we saw were wolf tracks everywhere and no deer... and that the pack was coming in fast to a cow moose call...

https://i.postimg.cc/W4dyZx86/Wolf-Teeth.jpg

[REMINGTON JIM]

I’m offended I’m not the one holding one of those Brutes

This ! But maybe this FALL Season again eh Bare ? :grin: RJ

[scttlp86]

I have no issues with that picture being in a magazine. These days no matter what you do someone will be offended... Stand up and be proud of who you are and what you enjoy!

[Bugle M In]

I have no issues with that picture being in a magazine. These days no matter what you do someone will be offended... Stand up and be proud of who you are and what you enjoy!
Yes, we should be proud of it.
And we should enjoy what we do.
But, this is about being able to enjoy it in "the future".
We aren't winning over the non hunting public if anyone has bothered to notice.
Example, look at guns laws and further restrictions due to folks who don't own guns and "don't understand".
We are headed the same way, and the low game #'s will further that attitude as again, the public doesnt know the "real issues".
They see what they see, and they interpret it as such.
And yes, cant make folks "think differently" it seems, especially these days.
So, maybe it doesn't matter.
In the end, i see hunting going like guns.
Law abiding, have it taken away.
Want to hunt or own guns, you have to so illegally one day.

[LBM]

I am going to put this out there, and see what others think.

We talk about "brainwashing" thru repetitive media, which is worst then ever, but has existed forever.
Have we allowed our "own industry" to brain wash us?
What do i mean?

Well, much of what we see on tv or magazines, which was the main way to "advertise" or get the message out there, was and
still is (if you look at many of the hunting shows on tv), is from folks (usually GO's) trying to "sell their hunts".
Sure, how to hunt such and such (to a degree) , but really, it is to showcase their company, to get as many clients as possible.
And, what do they showcase most, to convince you to go there?
IT's "we've got the biggest antlered such in such anywhere around".
And sometimes its a shame, because i know a GO right now that cant find many clients, because the hunting is piss poor in his
territory.
But damn, the territory is beautiful none the less.

But haven't we brain washed ourselves when it comes to hunting.
We just have to show off the rack, the bone, the length.
Its just become inherent in us to do so, to expect to do so etc.

But, is that the only reason we hunt or fish???
I don't think so.
We have allowed the industry to make us look like that's all we care about.
Because they are selling themselves to you because you need to have the biggest buck in the valley.
And in the end, that is the message the non hunting public sees.

We have to do better.
We have to rebrand hunting.
We have to show folks "Why we hunt".
Not just that miniscule moment in time when it actually comes together and it just so happened to be a tank.

We have to rethink "who we are and why we do it"
Fix ourselves first and then other can start to see what it is really about.
Just my thoughts.

When you say brain washing and repetitive media. Do you mean
like all the predator stuff Mpotzold and many others post.

[Harvest the Land]

When you say brain washing and repetitive media. Do you mean
like all the predator stuff Mpotzold and many others post.

Can you elaborate on "predator stuff"? You mean all of the factual evidence of recent attacks on humans? Do you want us to just turn a blind eye to what's actually going on?

Its a free world and you can chose to consume what information you'd like; but there's no harm in reporting facts - even if it demonstrates that those cute cuddly bears, cats and wolves actually do attack and sometimes kill people.; and these attacks are only becoming more frequent. These are facts LBM. I guess the truth hurts doesn't it.

How come the overwhelming majority of your posts on this website are essentially cheap shots or criticisms? What is your agenda? Are you being truthful when you say you're not Chris Darimont?

[Bugle M In]

I don't see Mpotzold's posts as brainwashing.
All he is doing is reporting incidents.
He's not even fabricating it, just posting it.
Does he have a special interest on this topic....absolutely.
I think anyone who has had an experience such as his in the past is going to stay more interested in the news of this stuff.
And, "what is the harm"???
If anything, hunters or anyone on hbc can see the post, read it, and find out what happened, what caused the charge or attack
if any.
And, the best part is, people can learn from it.
Maybe they can look at it and think of ways to avoid the incidents where possible.
And with that comes a huge benefit for everyone.
It protects us hunters or hbc members potentially in the future.
AND, it protects the bears possibly also.
If one can read and learn something, then maybe these encounters can be avoided more often and both man and animal
live another day.

Don't think he is trying to say that seeing a bear means sudden death and watch out behind every tree.
Just passing along incidents.

[IronNoggin]

... How come the overwhelming majority of your posts on this website are essentially cheap shots or criticisms? What is your agenda? Are you being truthful when you say you're not Chris Darimont?

Well said.
Always makes me wonder when these types appear on a Hunting Forum.

Nog

[LBM]

Can you elaborate on "predator stuff"? You mean all of the factual evidence of recent attacks on humans? Do you want us to just turn a blind eye to what's actually going on?

Its a free world and you can chose to consume what information you'd like; but there's no harm in reporting facts - even if it demonstrates that those cute cuddly bears, cats and wolves actually do attack and sometimes kill people.; and these attacks are only becoming more frequent. These are facts LBM. I guess the truth hurts doesn't it.

How come the overwhelming majority of your posts on this website are essentially cheap shots or criticisms? What is your agenda? Are you being truthful when you say you're not Chris Darimont?

Oh boy more questions. No mean all predator stuff as said. one example would be how so many blame them for all wildlife problems.
Dont no if attacks are any more frequent , they have always happened they definatly make the news more for that is what sells.
One fact is there are more humans out there now so that would lead to more encounters. Now why these happen one would have to interested in this to try and figure out. Like where it happens,
what time of year, was the animal protecting a food source or cubs/kittens, condition of animal, why its in that condition such as human caused or naturally. Have seen a fair number that were human
caused. What has also been showing by Mpotzold and ironnoggin is that some of these animlas dont have to be shot for they had encounters with bears and cougars and they did not shoot them and
all came out ok but both said if they had a gun would have shot the animal. Makes one think many of these are shot just because. There not really attacks or threats.
I guess another fact could be that you dont really no that much about predators as you stat in your thread asking if bobcat or lynx. You could be another one of those guys that has never seen a cougar
or seen one once but says there out there to attack humans and animals. Wonder what your agenda is.
Just like nonhunters that can get a season like the grizzly bear hunt shut done those that say they hunt but have no real knowledge about the wildlife can do just as much damage.
I like to hunt cats bears and wolves and dont want to see them shut down and that seems to bother a few of you, so when i see BS posted about them i say something, especially when
posted by guys that have no or very little knowledge of them and dont really hunt them, such as your self im guessing. So not really an agenda just want to be able
to continue to hunt.
So by cheap shots and criticisms do you mean like the ones you make towards me or the ones you made on a FN post or the one iron noggin made in this thread,
always find it funny guys that complain about something but they do what the complain about. People are always going to have different views.

[Ocender]

I'm offended by the huge cranker on the right....dang..