A question of Ethics

[180grainer]

So, if you had a friend. Who had some property. And on that property were some wild turkeys. And every year that friend feed those turkeys. Sometimes intentionally. Other times, they raided his garden. And then one day that friend decides to trap and kill one turkey every year for Thanksgiving. One Turkey. He has a firearms license. Is this unethical? Not asking if it's legal. Your friend assumes it's not. But he wants to be right with himself. Not the law. Is it ethical?

[Rieber]

So, if you had a friend. Who had some property. And on that property were some wild turkeys. And every year that friend feed those turkeys. Sometimes intentionally. Other times, they raided his garden. And then one day that friend decides to trap and kill one turkey every year for Thanksgiving. One Turkey. He has a firearms license. Is this unethical? Not asking if it's legal. Your friend assumes it's not. But he wants to be right with himself. Not the law. Is it ethical?

I think you have a friend who should be worried about the friends he keeps.

[MichelD]

Not any more ethical than folks from abroad who buy spreads in the Cariboo Chilcotin and use the land as a private hunting ground to shoot deer and moose on the property disregarding seasons, bag limits and without licenses or LEH permits.

[Hugh Mann]

Hypothetically of course, from a population stand point, I doubt it would hurt their numbers if he only nabbed Toms. Like other animals, new ones will always come to the ladies.
However, why not wait until they're in season, buy a hunting license and take one then, and freeze it until needed? They're open twice a year if I recall correctly. Then it's not only ethical, but perfectly legal to boot.

[Pioneerman]

Hypothetically of course, from a population stand point, I doubt it would hurt their numbers if he only nabbed Toms. Like other animals, new ones will always come to the ladies.
However, why not wait until they're in season, buy a hunting license and take one then, and freeze it until needed? They're open twice a year if I recall correctly. Then it's not only ethical, but perfectly legal to boot.


Depends on where the " Friend " lives on the island it is any Turkey no closed season and NBL

[180grainer]

Depends on where the " Friend " lives on the island it is any Turkey no closed season and NBL
Well, it's right timely that you pointed this out. Cause this friend would only do it when it's an "any turkey season". One Turkey every Thanksgiving.

[180grainer]

The only difference here, is this friend is not shooting a turkey. He's trapping one. Fully licensed. During an open season.

[One Shot]

I think the key word here is 'trapping". I do not believe that they are listed in the Trapping section of the regulations. If not, then there is an ethical and legal issue at hand. To intentionally feed and or bait turkeys is also illegal in this province.

[Bustercluck]

I personally don’t believe in feeding wild animals or homeless people. If you’re feeding them, are they even wild anymore? Or domesticated? What’s the difference? Turkeys are a little bit different, but it tends to ruin the life of a fox or bear.

As for homeless people, I feed them and give out cash when I’m downtown. I do this hoping that they’ll stay there away from my house because that’s where they get the most welfare. If they get fed at my local grocery store than they’re likely not to leave.

[Weatherby Fan]

sustenance..........

[russm]

Sounds kind of like your "friend " is a poacher

[mrdoog]

"But he wants to be right with himself. Not the law"
your "friend" already knows the answer in regards to the ethical question
what he's looking for is forgiveness, seeking that on an internet site is kind of sad

[Ride Red]

“ Justification “; we have laws/rules to follow and anything outside of this is as said, poaching.

[RugDoctor]

Ethics and the law this government imposes on us are two very separate things. The way things are these days, I’m more and more inclined to flout the law....sometimes because it’s arbitrary and stupid, sometimes because it’s clearly just a way to garner revenue from citizens, and sometimes just because of who the lobbied for the law....Ethics and the law are not the same....a lot of mans law can get stuffed, but my ethics don’t generally compromise...having said that, I know I’ve done things I’ve regretted.

Ethically, your friend only has to be right with himself. If he feels okay about it, that’s what matters. If it’s something he can’t reconcile with himself, he should stop. It may be against the law to do a lot of things and everyone’s line is different.

What time is supper?

[Treed]

It’s legally wrong, that’s clear. I think the ethical issue goes beyond the individual action and consequences. It was legal to shoot buffalo from a train or work as a hide hunter. As a result, the buffalo were all but wiped out. Now your friend is not going to wipe out all the turkeys in whatever region he lives in by killing one a year. The fact that it takes place during a legal bunting season is unimportant, because his method of capture is illegal. The issue here is that our game laws are there to protect wildlife populations and our right and opportunity to hunt. If we all decided to go trap a deer, during deer season, we’d be wildly successful (maybe), game managers wouldn’t change the harvest numbers (cause we were to sneaky to be caught or they were too dumb to catch us), and after a few years, deer populations would plummet. I think this has happened before and may be happening now with unregulated moose harvesting- heavy eye roll. The issue is not with the one turkey, it’s the fact that he’s circumventing laws to manage game that are there to also protect the rights of the rest of us to be able to hunt sustainable animal populations. I don’t support the harvest of animals by anyone who is a) not licensed b) not following hunting laws. It makes it harder to manage game populations the less you know about mortality. Why doesn’t he just shoot his damn turkey? Oh... the shoe just dropped. He’s got houses around him. Imagine the news if one of his neighbours videos a turkey dying in a snare and sends it to the news. Then your friend sticks another nail in our collective coffin. I think you knew the answer to this.

[REMINGTON JIM]

So, if you had a friend. Who had some property. And on that property were some wild turkeys. And every year that friend feed those turkeys. Sometimes intentionally. Other times, they raided his garden. And then one day that friend decides to trap and kill one turkey every year for Thanksgiving. One Turkey. He has a firearms license. Is this unethical? Not asking if it's legal. Your friend assumes it's not. But he wants to be right with himself. Not the law. Is it ethical?

Pretty SERIOUS sh*t there 180 - Maybe he just need's to talk with GOD ! :roll: RJ

[wideopenthrottle]

are there any rules/exceptions for trapping turkeys if you are a farmer "protecting" your farm?

[325]

Intentionally killing game without a license and/or outside of the regulated season is poaching. It's really simple.

[RyoTHC]

Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

[russm]

are there any rules/exceptions for trapping turkeys if you are a farmer "protecting" your farm?

Doesn't matter if you don't follow them

[saskbooknut]

Not following the law is not ethical.
Looking for absolution on the internet is weird.
Inevitably, there are also doubts about "asking for a friend" questions.

[moosinaround]

If your "friend" needs to eat this said turkey, to make it to the next day in life, then trap or kill the turkey. Feed yourself, that's what the turkey is on this earth for! Give a man a turkey feed him for a week, teach a man to turkey snatch, feed him for life! Right outta the good book!! So if it's good with the big guy upstairs, it's good for the men downstairs! moosin

[boxhitch]

Property owners or their agents can do what they have to to 'take care' of problems and pests
Beaver, cats, snakes, pigeons are all edible pests
Pest control doesn't have to follow the same 'rules' of harvest as hunters or trappers. Local municipality 'rules' may dis-allow firearms discharge for any reason.

[adriaticum]

I don't think it's ethical.
Turkeys are still a rare commodity in BC and if you friend owns a large property he is probably not strapped for financial resources.

Ethics has nothing to do with licenses.
Government license does not create moral ground for harvesting animals.
Need is the only thing that creates moral ground for harvesting animals.
If he is not in need than it's definitely not ethical.


Government does not determine what's ethical or not.
Some people seem to live under that illusion.

[boxhitch]

Ethics, smethics
Hunters have no trouble wanting to whack a 'feral' animal, a domestic that has strayed off private land
Whats the name for a wild critter that identifies as a 'domestic' by spending life on the farm and eating prepared food?

popcorn time

[boxhitch]

Government license does not create moral ground for harvesting animals.
Need is the only thing that creates moral ground for harvesting animals.
If he is not in need than it's definitely not ethical..........wow, true colours there

[RugDoctor]

wow, true colours there
What’s wrong with his statement?

[Weatherby Fan]

If the Turkey is threatening or causing damage willfully or verbally abusing or using racial slurs to that turkey you call a friend by all means he should defend himself and his property........:wink:

[Ubertuber]

Trying to justify poaching is never ethical.

[browningboy]

If your friend has a license and tag, gets one turkey per year as per the regulations how would that be poaching? The questionable parts are the feeding and "trapping", if he just shot it then it would be a perfectly legal hunt if he's allowed to shoot on his farm legally?
I suspect he traps a turkey, feeds it good food for a while then eats it for thanksgiving??

[RugDoctor]

So all laws are ethical?

[Keta1969]

So all laws are ethical?

Interesting question. I would say yes they are. When enough people become morally outraged about a law, they can vote, protest or lobby to have it changed. For better or worse many laws have been changed because of moral outrage. As for the friend with the turkeys I would say it is unethical to break the law even though it feels morally right to him and may seem that way to others. But remember morals may not help you avoid the fine.

[wideopenthrottle]

I always remind folks that there are 3 levels of moral adherence...the most current is always what the common folk think....lagging behind that by a few decades (or more) is the laws that are created to close in on the common values...then behind that by another few decades (or more) is what religions teach as "morally correct"...

[monasheemountainman]

Ethics and the law this government imposes on us are two very separate things. The way things are these days, I’m more and more inclined to flout the law....sometimes because it’s arbitrary and stupid, sometimes because it’s clearly just a way to garner revenue from citizens, and sometimes just because of who the lobbied for the law....Ethics and the law are not the same....a lot of mans law can get stuffed, but my ethics don’t generally compromise...having said that, I know I’ve done things I’ve regretted.

Ethically, your friend only has to be right with himself. If he feels okay about it, that’s what matters. If it’s something he can’t reconcile with himself, he should stop. It may be against the law to do a lot of things and everyone’s line is different.

What time is supper?


well put i agree

[Krico]

This thread is a perfect example of how quick differing opinions and negativity get posted vs anything positive. 4 pages of replies in under 24 hours.
Post on this site about an actual successful turkey hunt and you’re lucky to get even 10 responses.

And yes I see the irony in me responding here.

[Keta1969]

This thread is a perfect example of how quick differing opinions and negativity get posted vs anything positive. 4 pages of replies in under 24 hours.
Post on this site about an actual successful turkey hunt and you’re lucky to get even 10 responses.

And yes I see the irony in me responding here.

Well at least it's not another Covid thread but I hear you.

[adriaticum]

I always remind folks that there are 3 levels of moral adherence...the most current is always what the common folk think....lagging behind that by a few decades (or more) is the laws that are created to close in on the common values...then behind that by another few decades (or more) is what religions teach as "morally correct"...


Interesting perspective.

Ethics comes from common values and are independent from both state and religion.
We can argue that we embrace religious values, but I believe religion embraced common values and just preserved them for 2000 years.
Values came before religion.
Same with the state.
State imposes what it wants really and always teeters on the boundaries of what's ethical.

[Norwestalta]

What time is dinner?

[browningboy]

This thread is a perfect example of how quick differing opinions and negativity get posted vs anything positive. 4 pages of replies in under 24 hours.
Post on this site about an actual successful turkey hunt and you’re lucky to get even 10 responses.

And yes I see the irony in me responding here.


If the hunting posts had more pics and made it easy to do so I'm certain there would be way more hits! Right now its of legends to figure out how to post a pic! I've tried off my phone, off my Ipad and just gave up! LOL I know Gate has tried to show many off an I-Phone but mine wouldn't do it?

Sorry off topic but back to OP.

[elch jager]

If by trapping you mean luring a Tom into an enclosure in your yard and preventing his departure... feeding him an ideal diet and thereby domesticating him... maybe luring in a few hens as well... raising chicks and and retuning more to the local population than are removed... I think it sounds perfectly ethical. You could have turkey for Easter and Christmas as well then.

Outta season is just that - outta season. Thats how it will go in court.

[stogs]

Unfortunately it's more illegal to trap and domesticate wildlife. Buy some turkeys plain and simple raise them and have more than enough birds. Or bow it legally.

[walks with deer]

Yup turkey chicks are 9dollars each easy yo raise..a job to process..i like the wild ones and hunt them even though i raise turkeys...but a free range bought chick is great table fair..i raises so many i started grinding them and mixing them with bear meat to make homade european weiners brought 20lbs of them for my staff bbq and they all disapeared.

[RugDoctor]

Interesting question. I would say yes they are. When enough people become morally outraged about a law, they can vote, protest or lobby to have it changed. For better or worse many laws have been changed because of moral outrage. As for the friend with the turkeys I would say it is unethical to break the law even though it feels morally right to him and may seem that way to others. But remember morals may not help you avoid the fine.
So ethics are communal and you can’t have your own ethical code? So long as the majority of people say something is ethical/unethical....your ethics automatically align? You don’t have your own opinion on ethics....just go with the majority?

[Keta1969]

So ethics are communal and you can’t have your own ethical code? So long as the majority of people say something is ethical/unethical....your ethics automatically align? You don’t have your own opinion on ethics....just go with the majority?

Like I said it's interesting. Yes I would say ethics are communal and if I follow my own moral compass and go against the ethics of the broader community I am then doing something unethical. But in all honestly Ive never really thought about to much and could be convinced differently.

[RugDoctor]

Like I said it's interesting. Yes I would say ethics are communal and if I follow my own moral compass and go against the ethics of the broader community I am then doing something unethical. But in all honestly Ive never really thought about to much and could be convinced differently.
Not sure I’m real convincing on this...but I do disagree with you.....ethics are extremely personal. Social mores are communal. What you find ethical is up to you, but I may not feel the same....doesn’t make one of us right and the other wrong, except to each other.

To blindly follow the broader community’s ethical standard is groupthink.....and bends your own standards. I prefer to set, and live by my own standards...not someone else’s.

This is also why different companies have different ethical codes and standards of conduct employees need to follow...because they may not be the same as the company you came from...or simply new to you. While they are a community ethical standard, they are different than another community....just like how individuals have different ethical boundaries among each other.

I think this is the point of the thread (kinda)...that ethics are much different than the law, which is much closer to social mores.

[835]

The only difference here, is this friend is not shooting a turkey. He's trapping one. Fully licensed. During an open season.

.22 with CB Caps if he is in a discharge area. if he can not discharge on his property and he is trapping them. that part is not legal. The Ethics of it depends on weather you call breaking the law to suit your needs ethical.
Will it hurt the population? no one here can say because we do not know how good the population is where your buddies land is.

so really, its kind of a mute point isn't it?

[835]

I think this is the point of the thread (kinda)...that ethics are much different than the law, which is much closer to social mores.

if the thread was to question / debate Ethics vs morals vs law I would have hoped that it would have been worded as such.
But I do aggree with you. Ethics are personal, though they can change as a person "learns". Places like this site used to teach me quite often different aspects to a question. Today what I might think is unethical might change tomorrow if someone shows me a better way. The problem comes when one justifies something as "Ethical" when it goes against the law. Ergo a hit deer on the road side, its going to die slowly. Do you shoot it? it is not deer season but you are in a place you can shoot... its illegal but given the right circumstance it might be "Right " to shoot it.

180 Grainers buddie,,, if he is over run with turkeys … its probably because he is feeding them... I really dont care myself if he traps them in legal season and kills an otherwise legal bird. but I cant tell someone that it is Ethical because its illegal.