Another hit to our hunting spaces - indigenous conservation areas

[boxhitch]

Huge tracts of the Yukon/NWT are already set aside under title of Thaidene Nene national reserve with the blessing of the world it seems
6.5 million acrea in the name of preservation

Another large area, this time in BC, is about to be set aside, the Kaska Dene is loooking at setting aside their territory, 45,000 sq miles
covering roughly 1/6? of BC
This will be essentially a national park controlled and administered by th


To sweeten the deal, the federal government is currently funding conservation projects just like this one as it works toward its
international land conservation committments

https://thenarwhal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Kaska-IPCA-Area-Map-100-1.jpg

[boxhitch]

https://thenarwhal.ca/serengeti-of-the-north-the-kaska-denas-visionary-plan-to-protect-a-huge-swath-of-b-c-wilderness/

I brought up these IPCA's a couple years ago, not much attention then

Clayoquot Sound is another 120,000 H.

[REMINGTON JIM]

So BILLY what doe's it acutally mean or amount to - to us non indian Hunter - Fisher people ? RJ

[wildcatter]

So BILLY what doe's it acutally mean or amount to - to us non indian Hunter - Fisher people ? RJ

Jim, it means that you and I are not welcome on "their" land.

[Ride Red]

Another UN backed initiative to preserve wild space (don’t get me wrong cause we need something set aside) but this will most likely be accessible by FN or by payment. All the while the Amazon rain forest is being slaughtered down to every last tree and the UN does phuck all. Hypocrites at best with the UN.

[adriaticum]

We shouldn't assume that protection of wilderness areas means no hunting.

[IronNoggin]

We shouldn't assume that protection of wilderness areas means no hunting.

https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/ROFLMAO.gif

[Ride Red]

We shouldn't assume that protection of wilderness areas means no hunting.

You can’t be that naive, can you???

[Ride Red]

https://kaskadenacouncil.com/contact/

I’d suggest anyone interested in getting information on hunting or future of hunting in this area to look at the link posted. Their office is open M-F 8am to 3:30pm. I’m drafting an email to go out to see the response.

[adriaticum]

You can’t be that naive, can you???


I'm sure 10-15 years ago when I said Indians are working to have a parallel government with BC, someone told me I was naive.
Keep an open mind.

Think about another scenario.
Lets say you have to pay $20 for a tag to hunt bear on some Indian land, do you care whether you pay this government, or some Indian government?
I don't.

First Nations know that they can't block access to hunting.
There would be an all out war.
I reckon all governments are aware.

[wildcatter]

Another UN backed initiative to preserve wild space (don’t get me wrong cause we need something set aside) but this will most likely be accessible by FN or by payment. All the while the Amazon rain forest is being slaughtered down to every last tree and the UN does phuck all. Hypocrites at best with the UN.

The f****n UN has no business to dictate what happens in BC or Canada, but of course we know the turd got his head up the UN's ass.
We need to get rid of him yesterday

[Rob Chipman]

Lets say you have to pay $20 for a tag to hunt bear on some Indian land, do you care whether you pay this government, or some Indian government?
I don't.



I'd be fine with it. I don't care much who the government bossing me around is as long as they're reasonable and not too tough to deal with.

If you run a red light in Mexico and get a ticket do you scream because it's not the BC government giving you the ticket? Nope.

And if he says "You can pay now, in cash, but it's half price and no paperwork"? Even better.


Now, is it good for the country? Not so much, but I don't control that.

Two news stories in the past week or so. Pikangikum First Nation in Ontario expelled the OPP from "within their borders" (https://globalnews.ca/news/7710812/ontario-provincial-police-expelled-pikangikum-first-nation/) while in Nova Scotia the Mi'kmaq have forbidden RCMP from coming on their reserve (can't find source but saw it earlier).

Right, wrong, good, bad or indifferent, there's a new day coming.

[WetLeopard]

Adriaticum, I agree with you on this one (and I believe you had a similar sentiment on another thread regarding handover of Crown land). I'm also a fairly new hunter, so feel free to ignore these comments as those of a young, naive city-dweller.

We spend a lot of time and energy bashing the current government's strategy (or lack thereof) for wildlife management. Who's to say a new form of government won't be better for wildlife, and thus hunters?
The first time I heard about anything of this sort was from a fishing guide in the Prince Rupert area, and my reaction was the same as many ("how could we ever expect First Nations do do a better job of management?" "How could this possibly be a better thing for hunters/anglers in the province?"). Well, we've certainly sat back and watched as BC salmon stocks are managed to zero. Maybe a different strategy is warranted this time...
I get that there is mistrust, but when I hear people like Chad Day of the Tahltan Nation talk about the need for predator management, among other topics, it seems to me that his message is far more in line with what BC hunters want than anything the BC government has ever said.

At the end of the day, my feeling is that the handover of Crown land to Indigenous peoples is happening whether we like it or not. So as a hunting community, would it not be better to try to get ahead of something for once and seek allies within those nations, rather than alienate ourselves by contesting something we are powerless to stop?

[Ride Red]

I'm sure 10-15 years ago when I said Indians are working to have a parallel government with BC, someone told me I was naive.
Keep an open mind.

Think about another scenario.
Lets say you have to pay $20 for a tag to hunt bear on some Indian land, do you care whether you pay this government, or some Indian government?
I don't.

First Nations know that they can't block access to hunting.
There would be an all out war.
I reckon all governments are aware.

First off I’m doubtful that they’ll let us hunt, never mind for a measly $20. Yes, I know that’s an example, but when have they ever tried working with us? I personally don’t see this going very well for anyone.

[RugDoctor]

Said it in another thread....trying to partner with someone who wants it all is a fools errand. They’ve been conditioned to believe they’re special and deserving of more than others. They’re not.

[boxhitch]

https:/ /landneedsguardians.ca/

"About 60 Indigenous Guardians programs are managing lands, waters and resources right now. Our work is as varied as the terrain. Along the Pacific Coast, guardians help sustain wild salmon runs. In the Mackenzie River Valley, guardians monitor pipeline repairs. In the eastern Manitoba, guardians test water quality around hydro dams. In Labrador, guardians help implement an Indigenous-led plan to restore caribou and monitor some of Canada’s largest mines. And across the country, guardians will have a central role in managing proposed Indigenous Protected and Conserved Areas (https://landneedsguardians.ca/protected-areas)."

[adriaticum]

First off I’m doubtful that they’ll let us hunt, never mind for a measly $20. Yes, I know that’s an example, but when have they ever tried working with us? I personally don’t see this going very well for anyone.

I don't know if they will let us hunt. I reckon they will.
Right now it goes both ways.
In some instances if you ask FN they will let you hunt and fish. In some they won't.
Personally, we are currently paying to hunt. I don't care who I have to pay a license fee to hunt.

There are many possible scenarios that come to my head.
Firstly, if some kind of a parellel state is created by the Federal government in BC where BC is partitioned off and vast landscapes are blocked for non-indigenous residents,
it's almost a guarantee that Canada is done and over with.
For most of us, I think, this would be the drop that overflows the bucket.
But we have to present that treason such as it is.
Maverick Party, or any indepencence party really need to step into high gear and work with this situation.
For this reason, I don't think any kind of initiative will come from the Federal government.
They will have to force Provincial government to commit any acts of treason.
And I'm sure many in the provincial government are willing.

So I am not sure if this is going to be a very radical departure from status quo. Remains to be seen.
One thing is for sure, First Nations will want to control access to natural resources and development of them.
It could be that they get control over that and all profits go to the FN, instead of local and federal governments.
That would effectively make FN territory a foreign country for all intents and purposes.
I am not sure how that will affect us.
This is already de-facto what's happening.
Indians are getting paid and adding burden to any developments in BC, that de-facto any development is paying enough fees as if it's being transported through a foreign country.
That's why BC products are not competetive on the world stage any longer. Oil, Natural Gas, Lumber etc.
Nothing changes there.

Another elephant in the room is that many of the developments in BC and owned and operated by foreign countries and bringing their own labour force that doens't speak any English.
This is something nobody is talking about and yet it's happening everywhere.
BC is already a whore. Maybe land tranfer to the Natives is not a bad idea.

I am only concerned about access to nature, hunting, fishing and outdoors.
Because all the wording is being done as FN and Government working together on management of resources, I believe that we will not lose access to the land.

But, I am certainly aware that opposite is possible and I'm prepared to fight it.

[Treed]

They won’t let us hunt. They get enough money for free from other sources. When I get shut out from my ‘traditional lands’ I’ll be poaching my traditional rights. What a total load of BS. But it will come to pass.

[adriaticum]

They won’t let us hunt. They get enough money for free from other sources. When I get shut out from my ‘traditional lands’ I’ll be poaching my traditional rights. What a total load of BS. But it will come to pass.


Look, you can't say that with certainty. You don't know.
One of the reason they might be transfering land to the FN is to stop the welfare system that exists right now.
So FN will not get any free resources.
Maybe that is not such a bad idea.
Give them land and end the welfare state.
But I agree, if my traditional territory is closed, I will not need a license or tag to hunt.

[Treed]

They will continue to gain more and more control and will continue to receive provincial and federal funding as the UnDRIP reverberations keep spreading. The recent outcomes of court cases support this. With great control, comes no responsibility. They are not transferring land to end some welfare state, they are transferring land to appease the great liberal guilt complex.

[Ohwildwon]

They won’t let us hunt. They get enough money for free from other sources. When I get shut out from my ‘traditional lands’ I’ll be poaching my traditional rights. What a total load of BS. But it will come to pass.

Yep.......

[scoutlt1]

I lived in Muncho Lake years ago, but I think it's best I keep my thoughts to myself....

[Bigdoggdon]

There are quite a few examples of hunters not being permitted to hunt on "their" land in BC already. The T'silhqotin in Riske Creek area will not allow hunters access to their title lands. In fact they won't allow hunters to drive (on taxpayer build roads) through their title area to hunt on the other side of it. We all know the stories of the Tahltan Nation blockading roads against hunters every fall. This is just one more area that will be cut off from resident hunters. The dominoes are falling.

[dapesche]

Man. Pretty conflicted reading all this.
FN get shit on pretty hard which I am not onboard with as they are they are the product of what our gov't created. They (the gov't) has completely ****ed up their lives and just figure giving them free shit will fix the problem they created.

I was chatting with a gov't FN liaison about this topic (giving land to them). This guy was buying some tires from me and the conversation got deep real quick. haha.
He thought it was a good idea to gift and I thought it was yet another disservice to them.

We keep giving them shit for free with the hope that it appeases them and keeps them quiet. Giving away title sets a precedent and the lawyers are licking their lips with the thought of years and years of work ahead of them.
It's a slap in the face of the BC resident tax payer who fund the resource development, land management and support payments to the many bands through BC.

I would much prefer that we give them income producing assets that can be developed and run jointly. Enough natural resources in this province that they could run a Joint mining or gas project with the revenue and jobs going to the bands.
As many alluded to, all these BC bands didn't 'peacefully' carve out their territories and they didn't live peacefully until us white folk showed up. When I was in Kamloops as was BSing with a guy down at Pioneer park. He said him and his buddies hated another group at the beach because they were from a different band. Such old school thinking that they all need to move on from but it gives you an idea of where their heads are at .... no one is thinking for themselves, they are just believe what they've been taught by family members.

We just need to move forward and giving them shit and not actually trying to help them doesn't seem like it's worked for the last 50 yrs.

I like what the Tahltan's have done in regards to land management and the fact that they'd gotten tired of the gov't and are starting up their grizzly hunt again. I also don't like the stories of them blocking hunter access. I guess we'll see what it looks like post-covid.

In short: the situation is ****ed. There is the opportunity to actually improve the wildlife situation in BC through FN management but there is also a lot of risk. Not much trust right now and I am REALLY trying to be 'glass half full'.

This is a lifestyle and a passion for all of us and I don't think anyone will ever stop hunting.

[Ride Red]

Man. Pretty conflicted reading all this.
FN get shit on pretty hard which I am not onboard with as they are they are the product of what our gov't created. They (the gov't) has completely ****ed up their lives and just figure giving them free shit will fix the problem they created.

I was chatting with a gov't FN liaison about this topic (giving land to them). This guy was buying some tires from me and the conversation got deep real quick. haha.
He thought it was a good idea to gift and I thought it was yet another disservice to them.

We keep giving them shit for free with the hope that it appeases them and keeps them quiet. Giving away title sets a precedent and the lawyers are licking their lips with the thought of years and years of work ahead of them.
It's a slap in the face of the BC resident tax payer who fund the resource development, land management and support payments to the many bands through BC.

I would much prefer that we give them income producing assets that can be developed and run jointly. Enough natural resources in this province that they could run a Joint mining or gas project with the revenue and jobs going to the bands.
As many alluded to, all these BC bands didn't 'peacefully' carve out their territories and they didn't live peacefully until us white folk showed up. When I was in Kamloops as was BSing with a guy down at Pioneer park. He said him and his buddies hated another group at the beach because they were from a different band. Such old school thinking that they all need to move on from but it gives you an idea of where their heads are at .... no one is thinking for themselves, they are just believe what they've been taught by family members.

We just need to move forward and giving them shit and not actually trying to help them doesn't seem like it's worked for the last 50 yrs.

I like what the Tahltan's have done in regards to land management and the fact that they'd gotten tired of the gov't and are starting up their grizzly hunt again. I also don't like the stories of them blocking hunter access. I guess we'll see what it looks like post-covid.

In short: the situation is ****ed. There is the opportunity to actually improve the wildlife situation in BC through FN management but there is also a lot of risk. Not much trust right now and I am REALLY trying to be 'glass half full'.

This is a lifestyle and a passion for all of us and I don't think anyone will ever stop hunting.

Good post. You are correct, the government created this shit show and we don’t trust the government or FN. If FN allowed residents to continue on to hunt and fish, we’d be seeing them in a different light. But, when you instantaneously block us out as soon as you receive a little power, our trust goes out the window. I’d be on board working with anyone as long as all stakeholders have a place at the table, but again, sadly we’ve been shut out. Until everyone can work collaboratively, the battle will continue.

[boxhitch]

All stakeholder s or their representatives ARE at the table, everyone knows and understands what is at stake, and the talk keeps going round and round the table.
Then the trump card gets thrown down and everything stalls
As soon as the UN created the UNDRIP card and CDN politicians acquiesced, the future was clear for a handful of glory and power seekers to move.

[jkraus]

I lived in Muncho Lake years ago, but I think it's best I keep my thoughts to myself....

I would actually like to hear your thoughts.

[KodiakHntr]

Look, you can't say that with certainty. You don't know.
One of the reason they might be transfering land to the FN is to stop the welfare system that exists right now.
So FN will not get any free resources.
Maybe that is not such a bad idea.
Give them land and end the welfare state.
But I agree, if my traditional territory is closed, I will not need a license or tag to hunt.

Well that is the thing though, we DO know. You can't possibly be that naïve that you think access even remotely similar to what we have now, much less BETTER than now, will exist, can you? I mean, I have a pretty good suspicion based on some of your comments, but I still can't actually believe you truly think that.

We have seen it across the province, anywhere that there is a reserve people encounter access issues on the surrounding landscape when they run into indigenous groups. And this isn't simply "Hey bud, we don't think you should be here because of this and this and this", it is intimidation and fear. People take ownership of areas that they frequent, it's human nature. No different than if you were to walk through a strange neighborhood in Detroit or Toronto, people would be looking at you less than welcoming because you aren't from the area and maybe you end up face down behind a dumpster. Compound that on land that people have been told they actually have legal rights??!?!? It will end in violence...

As to the welfare state aspect.... Canada CAN'T get rid of that. When the Indian Act was set up it involved the government setting aside monies in a separate account for administration of the Act and to look after the Indians. THEN the government needed some dollars, and "borrowed" from that account, but like a credit card the interest keeps accruing. And now the total bill owed to the account is more than the country could generate or BORROW. Think about that for a second. Canada, as a country, doesn't have enough equity to borrow enough money to cover the debt that the government created. If the debt was called in, it would bankrupt Canada. So there is virtually NO chance that the country can solve this issue financially, because the government can only make the minimum payments to keep the creditors away.

Additional to that, Indian Affairs is a big ministry. And there likely isn't any appetite among the people that work there to solve any of this and put themselves out of a job. It is a self perpetuating cycle.

[IronNoggin]

... First Nations know that they can't block access to hunting.
There would be an all out war.


There you go once again indicating just how delusional you can be at times.

First nations are ALREADY blocking access to hunting, fishing and more over large swaths of land.
It is their common practice. Period.
The "government" sides with them on these matters, certainly not you.

There have been no signs of real resistance to that stance, let alone "all out war".
Despite the assurances and angry comments of many on various internet platforms, damn near zero are actually ready, willing and able to put their lives at risk over these developments. Again... Period.

The worst is yet to come, and here you sit trying to condone it... https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Nope.gif

Sheesh,
Nog

[ccrcc]

Another elephant in the room is that many of the developments in BC and owned and operated by foreign countries and bringing their own labour force that doens't speak any English.


Curious about this. Can you name a few projects where this is happening?

[adriaticum]

Curious about this. Can you name a few projects where this is happening?


Site C, Kitimat LNG (LNG Canada) is a conglomerate of foreign companies, not a single Canadian company.
They just use a name LNG Canada to make people believe it's Canadian.
Dig a little more.
It's all over mining, Banking, agriculture industries.

Do you understand that Government of Canada advertises Temporary Foreign Worker programs?
"Hire a Temporary Foreign worker", we might just give you a bonus and a subsidy.
Go to the Okanagan and see who picks the fruit.
Check to see who works the fields of this country.

[adriaticum]

Well that is the thing though, we DO know. You can't possibly be that naïve that you think access even remotely similar to what we have now, much less BETTER than now, will exist, can you? I mean, I have a pretty good suspicion based on some of your comments, but I still can't actually believe you truly think that.

We have seen it across the province, anywhere that there is a reserve people encounter access issues on the surrounding landscape when they run into indigenous groups. And this isn't simply "Hey bud, we don't think you should be here because of this and this and this", it is intimidation and fear. People take ownership of areas that they frequent, it's human nature. No different than if you were to walk through a strange neighborhood in Detroit or Toronto, people would be looking at you less than welcoming because you aren't from the area and maybe you end up face down behind a dumpster. Compound that on land that people have been told they actually have legal rights??!?!? It will end in violence...

As to the welfare state aspect.... Canada CAN'T get rid of that. When the Indian Act was set up it involved the government setting aside monies in a separate account for administration of the Act and to look after the Indians. THEN the government needed some dollars, and "borrowed" from that account, but like a credit card the interest keeps accruing. And now the total bill owed to the account is more than the country could generate or BORROW. Think about that for a second. Canada, as a country, doesn't have enough equity to borrow enough money to cover the debt that the government created. If the debt was called in, it would bankrupt Canada. So there is virtually NO chance that the country can solve this issue financially, because the government can only make the minimum payments to keep the creditors away.

Additional to that, Indian Affairs is a big ministry. And there likely isn't any appetite among the people that work there to solve any of this and put themselves out of a job. It is a self perpetuating cycle.


Kodiak, you are so hard set in your skin.
You must be an old geezer, like Nog.

I understand that Tahltan don't allow us to hunt their land yet. But keep in mind the these land claims being resolved is a novelty.
Suddenly FNs were given a cookie and they don't want to share. But I am convinced that eventually they will.
Also keep in mind that they don't share with you or me, but there is plenty of white people who are on friendly terms with them and do hunt their land.

Indian Act is a relic of the past and is going to be abolished and all those who are employed there will be moved to other useless jobs in other useless ministries.
Unless, we the people, get a clue.
Indians don't like it, we don't like it.
The problem is white man is comfortable in his armchair, sipping his latte and debating benefits of non-binary genders.
While other people are working on improving their lives.

From now on, I am answering all problems with 2 answers:

1. Human over population
2. Government burden and overreach. When parasite overwelms the host organism and host organism dies, they both die.

Keep in mind the most successful FN bands have chiefs who are univesity indoctrinated, much like we are.
They know they can't exist alone and they can't go back to roaming the land living in tippis and hunting bison.

But one thing is for sure.
If you believe that they won't let us hunt and you approach the issue with that attitude, you are increasing the likelihood that they won't.

[wildcatter]

You can count me in with the old geezers and I also think they won't let us hunt on "their" land.
If they do, it will be when ever they feel like and probably say how much money you got white boy?
It will be a cash cow they can't resist, as seeing it another form of extortion to part us with our hard earned cash and liberties.
The young and up coming generation will be the most militant, the "proud warriors" they will be the ones we will have to face.
I can see several outcome if this, most hunters will just suck it up and obey, some will give up hunting altogether and some probably get into a confrontation.

[Imdone]

And the Poaching will boom, incredibly.

Can you blame them.

[scoutlt1]

You can count me in with the old geezers and I also think they won't let us hunt on "their" land.
If they do, it will be when ever they feel like and probably say how much money you got white boy?
It will be a cash cow they can't resist, as seeing it another form of extortion to part us with our hard earned cash and liberties.
The young and up coming generation will be the most militant, the "proud warriors" they will be the ones we will have to face.
I can see several outcome if this, most hunters will just suck it up and obey, some will give up hunting altogether and some probably get into a confrontation.

Add me to the old geezer list too. Happily.
The Indian Act is racist. But no federal government has abolished it yet.
The UN and all their bigoted and racist sh*t like UNDRIP needs to f**k off. Now.
The "fact" that Indian rights are now "well enshrined in law" is meaningless to me. That was done by politicians and judges. They are the same people who came up with residential schools and the Indian Act. Top level politicians and top level judges are predominantly pompous, self serving folks who may or may not feel like they are "doing the right thing", but in so many ways (like this), simply aren't.
This is all about money and power. It has nothing to do with "rights" or "freedoms" or anything that even resembles that. Quite the opposite actually.

I honestly don't even know how this will/would ever be addressed in a way that parallels my way of thinking, and maybe in today's world it shouldn't be. As soon as I even start to open my mouth on things like this, the first comment/reaction is "racist". Frankly, I'm starting care less and less every day about that kind of reaction, because to me it's just ignorant.

Makes no sense to me, and sadly, I feel like things are going to shit in a country that should be having the exact opposite happening.

M

[scoutlt1]

I don't want to derail this thread, but everyone needs to read UNDRIP. Read it more than once.

It's unbelievable really.

[Rob Chipman]

There you go once again indicating just how delusional you can be at times.

First nations are ALREADY blocking access to hunting, fishing and more over large swaths of land.
It is their common practice. Period.
The "government" sides with them on these matters, certainly not you.

There have been no signs of real resistance to that stance, let alone "all out war".
Despite the assurances and angry comments of many on various internet platforms, damn near zero are actually ready, willing and able to put their lives at risk over these developments. Again... Period.

The worst is yet to come, and here you sit trying to condone it... https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Nope.gif

Sheesh,
Nog


Absolutely accurate.

The other thing is that when you refer say things like "First Nations know...this or that" you're making a huge and unsupportable generalization. There isn't a monolithic "First Nation" out there. There *are* well over 200 different bands, nations and other Indigenous groups and they are all pursuing agendas that differ to various extents from one another.

Even within a nation there are very different viewpoints and values.

[Bugle M In]

What does it mean to our hunting???
Don't know, as these type of situations are sort of uncharted territory.

BUT, i do know one thing, and this is for any FN reading, if they even care, but when change comes, there is always a
ying-yang effect, and they may look at it as the beginning to taking it all back, and having unimpeded rights to land and
extinguishing everyone else's (us non FN hunters etc).
And on the onset, it appears that it could be possible.

Which only leaves me 2 choices down the road (not me, as i am too old, but the younger folks)
One way, is to "poach your asses off", meaning the folks that would generally follow the laws will "take it into their own hands".

And the other, would be someone who loses their rights to hunt because for the most part they are held hostage or not allowed in
many areas any longer, so why bother.

Well, for me, if "I CAN'T Hunt", then sure as shit no one will get "Special Privileges" if i can help it.
In other words, a hunter "denied the right to access to hunt", can and should become an Anti against hunting so that even the
FN can't no longer hunt one day.

Right now antis love to put us non FN hunters in the spotlight as the bad people destroying the planet.
Once we are gone, that buffer for the FN is gone and then the "spotlight is on them"!!
I guarantee it.
And if i am around, i will lead the charge to stop them as well.

If it is just the case of "Protecting Land" (and i sure hope that is the case!!!) then i am all good with it!
I guess that is the problem with these types of agreements.
The FN know what they get out of it, and what they will be able to continue to do.

THE BIG ISSUE with these things, as we can see from many comments is:

We, as non FN, but hunters like them, don't have any "clauses" in these agreements for "us".
Our government is in a movement to help the FN, but they no longer consider the rest of us.
That is the BIG ISSUE, not what the FN wants, but our government and not keeping us hunters "in mind".
Just remember that everyone!

And yes, hunter can become an Anti!!

[BCHunterTV]

did you email and receive a reply?


https://kaskadenacouncil.com/contact/

I’d suggest anyone interested in getting information on hunting or future of hunting in this area to look at the link posted. Their office is open M-F 8am to 3:30pm. I’m drafting an email to go out to see the response.

[Ride Red]

did you email and receive a reply?

Hopefully a reply this week.

[browningboy]

So what will anyone really do? Nothing, they will get their land, we will loose our rights and we will bitcch about it! Little by little and it will be gone!

[Ride Red]

So what will anyone really do? Nothing, they will get their land, we will loose our rights and we will bitcch about it! Little by little and it will be gone!

And you are right. Not long ago, 2500 of us showed up in Victoria, then Kelowna. Many on here said they didn’t want to miss a day of work or spend the money to travel. Out of over 100,000 hunters in this province and only a handful of us do anything to support the hunt we love. Time for everyone to look in the mirror and realize we’re the problem too for not speaking up. Spend a little now to save for later or give up and lose it all.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Our world as hunters and shooters is under attack from so many directions it’s not even funny

I need a safe space to go and hide

[BRvalley]

they'll probably let us on their land, for the right price....get used to more of this:

http://www.kispioxband.com/businesses/fishing-access/

[Ride Red]

they'll probably let us on their land, for the right price....get used to more of this:

http://www.kispioxband.com/businesses/fishing-access/

Better be getting lunch and a blowjob for those prices. :(

[Harvest the Land]

they'll probably let us on their land, for the right price....get used to more of this:

http://www.kispioxband.com/businesses/fishing-access/

About 4 years ago I actually was looking at large acreages to purchase for a hunting retreat & to possibly live on right on the Kispiox (biggest steelhead I've ever seen), but after doing more research on the Gitxsan and learning about just how determined and ambitious they are about seeing an outcome from the courts similar to what the Tsilhqotin got in 2014, and learning about all the rail blockades they like to put up from time to time, and about how they can't stand non-indigenous anglers catching "their" fish on the Skeena, I said to hell with that idea! No way I was wanting to pay a toll just to cross a bridge (unless it was a new bridge and it needed to be paid for) to get to my driveway, and so I bailed on a really good deal as a result.

Still looking for a nice acreage, but you bet your ass the very first thing I look for now is just how hostile the local FN's are towards whities in particular areas, just so I can try and get a sense of if I'll have to pay some kind of toll in the future. Its really tough to fork over a ton of cash on a dream acreage when there's always a chance that some FN group will try to say that your land is no longer "yours", but rather its now "their" land at some point in the future.

Its hard to overstate just how profoundly the BC gov't has let all of us down by allowing all these land title disputes to fester for so many decades. Now those of us who want to buy land in remote areas will always be in a very precarious position because someday a judge or the local FN band will tell you that land is no longer yours and/or you're gonna have to start paying a toll just to access your own driveway. Heck it might be smarter to simply look for properties out of province instead and avoid this total gong show altogether.

I don't really blame FN's for any of this - they've wanted to settle forever, and our gov't just kept kicking the can down the road. But I most certainly am scared as f_ck about some FN's (like the Gitxsan) ambitions and hostility towards non-indigenous rights and our desire & ability to fish and hunt in this province.

If anyone has a non-violent solution to this inevitable reckoning that's about to ensue I'd love to hear it

[adriaticum]

All the pressure must be exerted on the government, not on the FN.

[Eastbranch]

Alternatively, you could actually read the plan, come to an informed conclusion and find an ally instead of an enemy.

https://kaskadenacouncil.com/download/dkk-fact-sheet-six-key-messages-2020/?wpdmdl=5951&masterkey=5e9f88eabefd5

"Hikers, hunters, campers, anglers and outdoor enthusiasts are welcome onDene K’éh Kusān land."

[wildcatter]

All the pressure must be exerted on the government, not on the FN.

You sound like you are on the FN's side.

[Rob Chipman]

Alternatively, you could actually read the plan, come to an informed conclusion and find an ally instead of an enemy.

https://kaskadenacouncil.com/download/dkk-fact-sheet-six-key-messages-2020/?wpdmdl=5951&masterkey=5e9f88eabefd5

"Hikers, hunters, campers, anglers and outdoor enthusiasts are welcome onDene K’éh Kusān land."


Good catch, thanks.

It's wise to make note of the positives, and to thank and respect bands and nations that *could* be difficult to deal with but instead are not so hard to deal with.

[BRvalley]

Alternatively, you could actually read the plan, come to an informed conclusion and find an ally instead of an enemy.

https://kaskadenacouncil.com/download/dkk-fact-sheet-six-key-messages-2020/?wpdmdl=5951&masterkey=5e9f88eabefd5

"Hikers, hunters, campers, anglers and outdoor enthusiasts are welcome onDene K’éh Kusān land."


And sometimes you just gotta get your foot in the door, before you can get what you actually want

When you can't win at your first attempt, change the narrative and try again....so now instead of food security, it's become a conservancy area right....


https://www.yukon-news.com/news/yukon-supreme-court-rules-against-kaska-dena-council-in-hunting-consultation-case/

https://www.yukon-news.com/news/yukon-government-releases-statement-conflicting-with-traditional-territory-hunting-bans/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/kaska-dena-territory-hunting-lawsuit-1.4743083


CONCLUSION[154] The record in this case does not provide any basis for the legal dispute as Iconclude that KDC does not have the authority to bring such a court action, nor is therea sufficient record to address the real and fundamental dispute between KDC andYukon.

http://caid.ca/KDCDec2019.pdf


Sure, friendly allies, very welcoming indeed...for the right price

[adriaticum]

You sound like you are on the FN's side.

No, I just know who makes decisions.

[browningboy]

And you are right. Not long ago, 2500 of us showed up in Victoria, then Kelowna. Many on here said they didn’t want to miss a day of work or spend the money to travel. Out of over 100,000 hunters in this province and only a handful of us do anything to support the hunt we love. Time for everyone to look in the mirror and realize we’re the problem too for not speaking up. Spend a little now to save for later or give up and lose it all.

Its actually pretty sad, but many live pay cheque to pay cheque and cannot take that day off, or just think others will do it on their behalf but in reality I think we've already lost, writings on the wall and deals have been made as we are at the tail end of things. What a sad state of affairs everything seems to be lately!

[Bugle M In]

Look, its fairly easy to sum up.
Agreements like this, COULD be a good thing, for wildlife and at the end of the day, isnt that what we all want.
The PROBLEM is, agreements now days between the FN and Government generally conclude with the FN "knowing what they gain", BUT, WE Non FN have NO IDEA nor any Stipulations in their to protect/preserve our concerns/use.
And the irony is, they want to continue to hunt in these areas, which is fine by me, but we are only concerned/asking for the
"SAME RIGHT"
Nothing more, nothing less.
Isn't that what making things fair for everyone is all about?
Isnt that the end game?
Or is reconciliation having to say sorry and thank you everyday and have to hand over cash.
Because if it is the later, then i guarantee worse outcomes down the road then has been seen in a long time.
If it is fair, then i am good with it, and don't think i am asking for much.
BUT, i want to see it in "writing"!!!

The rest is just speculation and being upset with not knowing or what could happen.
Blame our government for not "letting us know what it means" for the future of the many non fn BC resident!!

[adriaticum]

Curious about this. Can you name a few projects where this is happening?

Who is making your baby formula?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-royal-milk-plant-safety-concerns-1.5967372

[Ride Red]

Its actually pretty sad, but many live pay cheque to pay cheque and cannot take that day off, or just think others will do it on their behalf but in reality I think we've already lost, writings on the wall and deals have been made as we are at the tail end of things. What a sad state of affairs everything seems to be lately!

This is way closer to the truth right here.

[igojuone]

We shouldn't assume that protection of wilderness areas means no hunting.

No hunting for whitie, yes.

[Redthies]

And the irony is, they want to continue to hunt in these areas, which is fine by me, but we are only concerned or asking for the "SAME RIGHT"
Nothing more, nothing less.
Isn't that what making things fair for everyone is all about?
Isn’t that the end game?

Or is reconciliation having to say sorry and thank you everyday and have to hand over cash.
Because if it is the later, then i guarantee worse outcomes down the road then has been seen in a long time.
If it is fair, then i am good with it, and don't think i am asking for much.



This is the argument I’ve used with everyone I discuss fn or blm stuff with. EQUALITY means EQUAL rights for EVERYONE.

If you want to swing the pendulum all the way to the other side in an effort to make yourself feel better about what someone else did to someone else, before you were born, THAT IS NOT EQUALITY!!!

Unfortunately, there are way too many people who don’t understand this incredibly simple concept, and are hellbent on giving it all away to special interest groups. And yet because I feel equality does not mean “white guilt”, I am labeled as a racist. What the hell is that? Reverse racism is alive and well in this world. The Caucasian race has historically been the most motivated to explore and “improve” the world. Were some bad things done in the past? Sure. But indigenous people have done bad things to each other for eons too.