Best longrange hunting bullet for medium sized game.

[Bustercluck]

There’s been plenty of threads on best bullet for terminal performance, but I haven’t heard it discussed on the long range end of things. Obviously heavy for caliber bullets will be a huge factor, but which bullet has the best balance of bc, terminal performance at varying speeds and ease of tuning.

I’ve been reading a few articles and I think I’m going to try out the hornady eldx. 178 grain in my 300wsm with h4350, maybe even the next size up(I think it was 200 grain)

I don’t trust a Berger bullet for hunting as they don’t seem to stay together or penetrate at all. The accubonds seem popular, but I’ve been reading they’re hard to tune and the last thing I want is to tune a load at my local gun club and then drastically change the environment and expect the load to still be on point. Barnes would probably be my second pick, but they can be hard to tune as well.

My longest hunting shot to date is around 250 yards on a moose with a Barnes ttsx which performed flawlessly, but I’d like to push out to 4-500 yards comfortably.

[hawk-i]

There’s been plenty of threads on best bullet for terminal performance, but I haven’t heard it discussed on the long range end of things. Obviously heavy for caliber bullets will be a huge factor, but which bullet has the best balance of bc, terminal performance at varying speeds and ease of tuning.

I’ve been reading a few articles and I think I’m going to try out the hornady eldx. 178 grain in my 300wsm with h4350, maybe even the next size up(I think it was 200 grain)

I don’t trust a Berger bullet for hunting as they don’t seem to stay together or penetrate at all. The accubonds seem popular, but I’ve been reading they’re hard to tune and the last thing I want is to tune a load at my local gun club and then drastically change the environment and expect the load to still be on point. Barnes would probably be my second pick, but they can be hard to tune as well.

My longest hunting shot to date is around 250 yards on a moose with a Barnes ttsx which performed flawlessly, but I’d like to push out to 4-500 yards comfortably.

With those 178 eldx and H4350...in both of my 300wsm's 64 grs is the winner....:)

At 500 and less yards most bullets will work just fine, if you are going to push the distance you will need a bullet that will open up at a lower velocity...high BC and easy expansion exactly what the Bergers where designed to do :)

[BCBRAD]

Most hunting bullets have a 'window' of performance. This is to mean that the bullet will perform from a high velocity to a lower one.

EG: I have a 7mm-08 and a 280ai. An ELD-X 150gn in the 7mm-08 as the bullet will perform from muzzle to out past 500yds, where the 280ai, expecting advertised performance starts at about 150yds from the muzzle out to ~700yds.

So, for the 280ai I would use a 175gn in an ELD-X, to slow it down so it will be effective from muzzle on out.

For a 300wsm look at a 168 or 175gn Barnes X or a 180gn Accubond. There are also good hunting bullets in this weight range besides these two. These two are reliable performers.

A 1.5" 3 shot group or less is ideal for hunting large animals out to 500yds, so on any range day the rifle /load combination must put 3 into 1.5" at 100yds under all conditions, the bullet's velocity, game intended, must be compatible with bullet construction.

[hawk-i]

double post deleted

[358mag]

Define what your hunting "long range" is . 500-700-1000 yards ?

[huntingfamily]

Accubond LR or Barnes LRX would be at the top of my list...

[Bustercluck]

Define what your hunting "long range" is . 500-700-1000 (tel:500-700-1000) yards ?
I said 4-500 yards comfortably in my original post, but I’ll likely be shooting further. At some point in time skill/hunter ethics/equipment capability start becoming the biggest factor. Maybe I’ll spin a new barrel on next year and tune up my trigger to make my comfort level increase, but for now 4-500 yards. And this isn’t specific to my needs, just a general long range bullet

[VLD43]

There’s been plenty of threads on best bullet for terminal performance, but I haven’t heard it discussed on the long range end of things. Obviously heavy for caliber bullets will be a huge factor, but which bullet has the best balance of bc, terminal performance at varying speeds and ease of tuning.

I’ve been reading a few articles and I think I’m going to try out the hornady eldx. 178 grain in my 300wsm with h4350, maybe even the next size up(I think it was 200 grain)

I don’t trust a Berger bullet for hunting as they don’t seem to stay together or penetrate at all. The accubonds seem popular, but I’ve been reading they’re hard to tune and the last thing I want is to tune a load at my local gun club and then drastically change the environment and expect the load to still be on point. Barnes would probably be my second pick, but they can be hard to tune as well.

My longest hunting shot to date is around 250 yards on a moose with a Barnes ttsx which performed flawlessly, but I’d like to push out to 4-500 yards comfortably.

Bustercluck. Now your talking. 300 WSM is my favorite caliber. Have been loading for 300 since it was first introduced back 2000. I wouldn't get to focused on BC unless your going to be shooting out past 600 yds. A friend who is shooting a Christensen Arms in 300 WSM wanted to do load development for his rifle. I offered to help him and he is now shooting sub MOA all the way out to 1000 yds. He's deadly with that rifle, but he practices a lot. He is running 212 Gr ELD X with H 4831. We started with H4350 but could not get the velocity he was looking for, so changed to H4831.

As mentioned I have shot this caliber for a long time and taken many game animals from deer to moose. I initially tried a number of different bullets in the 150 - 168 Gr class, as common knowledge suggested that the 300 WSM preformed at its best with that bullet weight. I have not been disappointed. I presently have a number of pet loads I can pass on if interested. My favorite bullets bar none are Banes TTSX. I have loads for 150 -165 and 168 GR bullets. I started with winchester brass, and am now using Norma. I am amazed at how accurate and deadly Barnes are. Nothing I have ever shot at walked away. They flatten game and the wound channel is not extensive as some other thin skinned bullets. I have only ever recovered 2 bullets from game as most all pass right through at ranges out to 500 yds.

[David]

My longest hunting shot to date is around 250 yards on a moose with a Barnes ttsx which performed flawlessly, but I’d like to push out to 4-500 yards comfortably.

This is my opinion, based on my personal experience:
My longest shot is on a moose at 327 yards. It took me over an hour to find the moose because I was gauging the distance by eye and thought I shot him at 250 yards. It was pretty much a "bang-flop" at the side of a cut line, but if the moose falls 75 yards from where you think you shot him you're not gonna find it.

I have since purchased a rangefinder. And know my drops - when it comes to elevation I can now accurately compensate out much farther than I can shoot.

What I CAN'T compensate for is changes in wind. So what i do is look at the 5-10MPH wind shift of the cartridge I am using. Assuming I can easily be 5-10MPH off on the wind call, at what range would that put me out of the vital zone?

With my 7Mag that keeps the lighter bullets (150gr and less) to under 300 yards and the heavier bullets (160 gr and more) to under 400 yards. At these ranges the terminal performance is pretty much meaningless - everything will have the energy to expand properly at the speeds a 7Mag is going at 400 yards.

If I found some magical bullet that I thought I could keep in the kill zone in varying winds at 500yards or more, then I'd probably pay more attention to terminal ballistics, but for now "keeping it in the kill zone" is the more limiting factor (if it matters the moose I've shot have been with Remington Core-Lokt, Sako Hammerhead, and some sort of Nosler Partition - forget brand - they all mushroomed fine).

[hawk-i]

The higher the BC the less the wind drift at a given velocity...if you are shooting 500 yards and under it doesn't make a huge difference.

To be fair to the intended target, any long range shot should be measured with a range finder and calculated with a Kestrel, then only attempted if you are very confident in both your and your guns ability...IMHO though

[Bustercluck]

The higher the BC the less the wind drift at a given velocity...if you are shooting 500 yards and under it doesn't make a huge difference.

To be fair to the intended target, any long range shot should be measured with a range finder and calculated with a Kestrel, then only attempted if you are very confident in both your and your guns ability...IMHO though
This is what I was thinking with higher bc. A little more wiggle room. It’s easy to shoot at a known distance from the bench and even easier if you get a warmup shot, but higher elevation, more than likely a good breeze and some kind of angle it would be nice to give yourself the best available chances.

[BromBones]

Hard to beat a Nosler Ballistic Tip or Hornady SST for expansion at long range & high BC + accuracy.

The slower velocities at longer ranges don’t really require a bonded core or a mono bullet, often they don’t expand much out past 3-400 yards unless you hit bone on the entrance wound. Obviously that is dependant on the cartridge and velocity it can produce.

Accubonds are not finicky in my experience and don’t change POI, that is generally from temperature and powders that are more temp sensitive. Altitude will affect any bullets trajectory to a small degree.

[Bustercluck]

Bustercluck. Now your talking. 300 WSM is my favorite caliber. Have been loading for 300 since it was first introduced back 2000. I wouldn't get to focused on BC unless your going to be shooting out past 600 yds. A friend who is shooting a Christensen Arms in 300 WSM wanted to do load development for his rifle. I offered to help him and he is now shooting sub MOA all the way out to 1000 yds. He's deadly with that rifle, but he practices a lot. He is running 212 Gr ELD X with H 4831. We started with H4350 but could not get the velocity he was looking for, so changed to H4831.

As mentioned I have shot this caliber for a long time and taken many game animals from deer to moose. I initially tried a number of different bullets in the 150 - 168 Gr class, as common knowledge suggested that the 300 WSM preformed at its best with that bullet weight. I have not been disappointed. I presently have a number of pet loads I can pass on if interested. My favorite bullets bar none are Banes TTSX. I have loads for 150 -165 and 168 GR bullets. I started with winchester brass, and am now using Norma. I am amazed at how accurate and deadly Barnes are. Nothing I have ever shot at walked away. They flatten game and the wound channel is not extensive as some other thin skinned bullets. I have only ever recovered 2 bullets from game as most all pass right through at ranges out to 500 yds.
Maybe I’ll have to give the h4831 another go. I’ve tried it in my 300 wsm with 165 grain bullets and my 338 win mag. It seemed like my velocities were all under spec and they didn’t group worth a shit. Ttsx is all I use in my 338 win mag. I’ve only shot moose with them, but they don’t go more than a few steps after being hammered with those. It gets expensive doing target practice with them though.

[Bigdoggdon]

I too use the ELD-X bullet in my 300wsm. I use the 200g for moose with 62.0g of IMR 4350, it shoots .75 MOA.
I use the 178g for deer with 63g of RL-17, it shoots .5 MOA

[VLD43]

Maybe I’ll have to give the h4831 another go. I’ve tried it in my 300 wsm with 165 grain bullets and my 338 win mag. It seemed like my velocities were all under spec and they didn’t group worth a shit. Ttsx is all I use in my 338 win mag. I’ve only shot moose with them, but they don’t go more than a few steps after being hammered with those. It gets expensive doing target practice with them though.

Sounds like a good plan. Either H4350 or H4831 should get you where you want to be. I have never shot the 168 Gr TTSX past 500 yds, but would be interesting to see how they do. Only concern would be expansion at distance, Maybe the 178 gr LRX. Let us know how it turns out. The latest Hornady manual is also suggesting R17 for top velocities with both the 178 & 200 gr ELD X

[Downwindtracker2]

It would be nice if bullet manufactures would give an honest specs on terminal ballistics.

[VLD43]

It would be nice if bullet manufactures would give an honest specs on terminal ballistics.

Too many variables to do that. The best way to get as close as possible for your rifle and application is using quickloads and a lab radar or other good chrony.

[xlcc]

500 yards is a long shot at game in my mind.I shoot at tie plates that swing when hit at 500 yards at my range.Some days I have no problem wacking those plates.Other days it is a different story.Light conditions,temperature and wind are significant factors.
Better to get closer if you can.

[john-brennan]

There’s been plenty of threads on best bullet for terminal performance, but I haven’t heard it discussed on the long range end of things. Obviously heavy for caliber bullets will be a huge factor, but which bullet has the best balance of bc, terminal performance at varying speeds and ease of tuning.

I’ve been reading a few articles and I think I’m going to try out the hornady eldx. 178 grain in my 300wsm with h4350, maybe even the next size up(I think it was 200 grain)

I don’t trust a Berger bullet for hunting as they don’t seem to stay together or penetrate at all. The accubonds seem popular, but I’ve been reading they’re hard to tune and the last thing I want is to tune a load at my local gun club and then drastically change the environment and expect the load to still be on point. Barnes would probably be my second pick, but they can be hard to tune as well.

My longest hunting shot to date is around 250 yards on a moose with a Barnes ttsx which performed flawlessly, but I’d like to push out to 4-500 yards comfortably.

I find accubonds easy to tune, they are my go to in all 3 medium-big game rifles. 243,7-08 and 270WSM. I love them.

[willyqbc]

Just to give you some food for thought.......

If you think about your own experiences, ask around, or can search up the old poll that was done on here, you will find that the vast majority of animals are shot at under 150 yds....and the farther out you go, the less often those shots happen. Because of that, I start with a group of bullets that I know will perform up close at top velocities.....these would be your Barnes, accubonds, partitions etc. From there I look for ones that have the lowest minimum velocity needed to function, as that will get me the longest useable distance.

Usually these days, that ends up being the Barnes LRX......realistically no upper limit on speed, they will smash through and hold together at the highest velocities. they also have a reasonable bottom end....for your 300WSM that would be about 1600 fps and 1000 ft/lbs for the 175 and 190 LRX. On your 300 WSM that would put the 175's operating range approximately 0-700 yds comfortably. Ive been loading barnes for 20 years and have never found them to be difficult to tune.
There are softer bullets out there that will get you more distance, but you will have to sacrifice performance up close for the very rare occasion that you may need to go long. Not worth it in my books, set up for your most common shot, and make the compromise on your least common shot

JMO
Chris

[BCBRAD]

Just to give you some food for thought.......

If you think about your own experiences, ask around, or can search up the old poll that was done on here, you will find that the vast majority of animals are shot at under 150 yds....and the farther out you go, the less often those shots happen. Because of that, I start with a group of bullets that I know will perform up close at top velocities.....these would be your Barnes, accubonds, partitions etc. From there I look for ones that have the lowest minimum velocity needed to function, as that will get me the longest useable distance.

Usually these days, that ends up being the Barnes LRX......realistically no upper limit on speed, they will smash through and hold together at the highest velocities. they also have a reasonable bottom end....for your 300WSM that would be about 1600 fps and 1000 ft/lbs for the 175 and 190 LRX. On your 300 WSM that would put the 175's operating range approximately 0-700 yds comfortably. Ive been loading barnes for 20 years and have never found them to be difficult to tune.
There are softer bullets out there that will get you more distance, but you will have to sacrifice performance up close for the very rare occasion that you may need to go long. Not worth it in my books, set up for your most common shot, and make the compromise on your least common shot

JMO
Chris


Excellent explanation Chris !

[todbartell]

If you don't like Berger terminal performance, then the ELDx might not be for you

[Bustercluck]

If you don't like Berger terminal performance, then the ELDx might not be for you
I’ve read a few reviews that say they do the same thing at close range.

[todbartell]

https://i.imgur.com/crn55p6.jpg

Here's 2200 fps impact speed on an elk's scapula. Bullet never penetrated the chest cavity, was plucked off the entry side rib cage. 338" 230gr ELDx. That would be like 400 yard shot from a 338 Win Mag (this was a 270 yard shot from a 338-06)

Luckily was able to make two follow up shots and they penetrated the chest, but never hit any big bone

[Bustercluck]

https://i.imgur.com/crn55p6.jpg

Here's 2200 fps impact speed on an elk's scapula. Bullet never penetrated the chest cavity, was plucked off the entry side rib cage. 338" 230gr ELDx. That would be like 400 yard shot from a 338 Win Mag (this was a 270 yard shot from a 338-06)

Luckily was able to make two follow up shots and they penetrated the chest, but never hit any big bone

I’ve seen Berger’s do similar things. My brother shot a moose at about 75 yards with a Berger out of his 300 win mag. Nice broadside double lung shot and the bullet didn’t make it to the second lung, moose ran another 100 yards into the trees and was still trying to get up and run away when he got to it.

[NMO]

I’ve read a few reviews that say they do the same thing at close range.

Have shot half a dozen critters with ELDX, and guided another 10+ that have been shot with ELDX ( Deer, bear, goat, sheep, caribou, moose) - lots of them in the 7mm's. They kill fast for lung shots and create massive wound channels. They also make a mess if muscle when its encountered, and have commonly seen jacket/core separation as TodBartell displayed above. Don't have photos but its pretty common. Imo a quick, messy death with a realistic chance of a bullet failure if it isn't in the boiler.

[madcalfe]

I use the 178gr eldx in my .300wsm and load it with H4350 and it works real good!

[.264winmag]

There are no free lunches when it comes to bullet performance. For lower velocities a frangible projectile can be advantageous so long as you put it in the right spot. Frangible bullets can be messy at high velocities if you put it in the wrong spot. Pick a large target area long range and the small target area short range. I’ve run Berger’s for a decade and fill the freezer every year, not many follow up shots needed and never had one wounded and get away. Sometimes they exit sometimes they don’t. Sometimes they retain a fair bit of weight sometimes not. Since it’s proven lead bullets in game pose zero health threats I don’t mind the shrapnel. Can’t speak for other diameter Berger’s but the 6.5mm 140hvld really shines in that 2900-2200 FPS range. Moose elk and deer all love it...

[Razor84]

I’ve run Berger’s for a decade and fill the freezer every year, not many follow up shots needed and never had one wounded and get away.

guess you forgot about the big mule deer you wounded at 900 yards a few years back ?

[AllDay]

Never seen so much damage to an animal within 200 yards using eld-m and eld-x. Massive exist wounds with fragmented ribs. They don’t go far.

[.264winmag]

guess you forgot about the big mule deer you wounded at 900 yards a few years back ?
Clean miss but thanks for the reminder. Last time I checked an improper range reading has nothing to do with billet performance. Perhaps you can share your vast experience on digging bullets out of game at extended range.

[KodiakHntr]

I've killed literally tons of animals with Amax's from up close and personal to a fair way out. I haven't seen massive exit wounds, but I also shoot to break the offside shoulder or else it is a lengthwise shot. (Have yet to have one exit lengthwise.) Small exit wounds have been common, with very fast kills though. That said, it has been limited to Amax's in 75gr, 105gr, and 162gr - 223AI, 243AI, and 7wsm, deer/bears/coyotes/elk.
Although, now that I think about it, the 75's on coyotes do make BIG exits if bones are hit. The 105's and 162's usually make a dime sized exit wound on coyotes.

Thinking back, I can only remember one deer that was shot way out there with a 105 that was shot twice, but that was more because he was standing on the edge of the river bank above the Peace, and the first shot rolled him as he was trotting along but he managed to get back to his feet and I didn't want to risk him taking a few steps and falling in the river.
Necropsy showed that the first round got him anyway (third rib through to broken offside shoulder and exit) but since he was broadside and the shooting is the fun part he got another one through both shoulders. First round impact to point of death was maybe 15 yards, but some of that was him rolling and flopping. He didn't move anywhere under his own steam at any rate.

For shots 250+, in my opinion there isn't much out there that is better than a soft bullet that has some structural integrity. I much prefer the Amax over the SST, I have had Amax's hold together and exit while SST's have shown to be very soft and suffer separations more.
That said, shoot enough animals with enough bullets, and you will see some weird stuff happen eventually.

[Bustercluck]

After some more reading and thinking I decided not to go with the eld-x, then I tried finding some Barnes Lrx, but they’re nowhere to be found in Canada.

I don’t know why, but every time I try to buy something it’s sold out or can’t be found.

[.264winmag]

Refreshing to hear from someone that knows what they’re talking about KodiakHntr HA. Only ran a couple 285 amax’s out the Lapua through black bears, very impressive. I’ve got a decent 264 load with the 140’s that I’d like to try out on game.

[.264winmag]

After some more reading and thinking I decided not to go with the eld-x, then I tried finding some Barnes Lrx, but they’re nowhere to be found in Canada.

I don’t know why, but every time I try to buy something it’s sold out or can’t be found.


https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.300+Winchester+Short+Magnum.html

[.264winmag]

Don’t hear Barnes and long range hunting used together very often in the real world...

[KodiakHntr]

Refreshing to hear from someone that knows what they’re talking about KodiakHntr HA. Only ran a couple 285 amax’s out the Lapua through black bears, very impressive. I’ve got a decent 264 load with the 140’s that I’d like to try out on game.

I should get you to pm me that 264 load... I’m feeling a bit nostalgic and should probably dust mine off this spring. Been at least 15 years since I have 264’d anything.

[.264winmag]

I should get you to pm me that 264 load... I’m feeling a bit nostalgic and should probably dust mine off this spring. Been at least 15 years since I have 264’d anything.
I will ship it away in a bit once I’m home. It shoots same poi as my Berger load @100 and just needs a couple extra elevation clicks way out there due to the slightly lower bc.

[huntingfamily]

Don’t hear Barnes and long range hunting used together very often in the real world...

That's because you're posting links to data that's from 2011...

[Bustercluck]

Don’t hear Barnes and long range hunting used together very often in the real world...
Have you checked out the Lrx lineup?

[KodiakHntr]

Don’t hear Barnes and long range hunting used together very often in the real world...

Personally, I get pretty hesitant using Barnes past 450-ish after having seen a “few” critters shot past 450 with various flavours.
Maybe hesitant isn’t the right word. I will definitely poke holes in 500+ yard shoulders with a TTSX/LRX but I am mentally prepared to put a follow up round into any patch of hair as soon as the crosshairs settle from recoil that presents itself if that animal is still on its feet. Doesn’t matter what part of the anatomy it is, if there aren’t legs paddling air after the first shot with a Barnes it gets a second hole. Or a third.
I don’t have much faith in temporary wound cavity damage when it comes to mono’s.

[.264winmag]

Personally, I get pretty hesitant using Barnes past 450-ish after having seen a “few” critters shot past 450 with various flavours.
Maybe hesitant isn’t the right word. I will definitely poke holes in 500+ yard shoulders with a TTSX/LRX but I am mentally prepared to put a follow up round into any patch of hair as soon as the crosshairs settle from recoil that presents itself if that animal is still on its feet. Doesn’t matter what part of the anatomy it is, if there aren’t legs paddling air after the first shot with a Barnes it gets a second hole. Or a third.
I don’t have much faith in temporary wound cavity damage when it comes to mono’s.
Only ran one ttsx through a good size Muley up in the timber, 7-08 inside 30 yds high lungs had to put another in his gearbox as he was suffering. Same shot with a cup/core I’d be sitting on an extra round...

[.264winmag]

That's because you're posting links to data that's from 2011...
It’s a large website if you care to browse it. Which my personal empirical evidence on bullet performance at extended ranges I feel no need to switch projectiles and play with fire. I’ve found no evidence to suggest that monolithic projectiles are superior to the frangible cup/cores.

[.264winmag]

Have you checked out the Lrx lineup?
Dabbled with them in the 264 pressured up quick at modest velocity and couldn’t keep them in the breadbasket at extended ranges...

[Bustercluck]

Dabbled with them in the 264 pressured up quick at modest velocity and couldn’t keep them in the breadbasket at extended ranges...
I had trouble getting accuracy out of my ttsx hand loads too, the factory stuff works good, but it’s expensive as hell to buy. I loaded them pretty close to the lands and I’m wondering if I seat them shorter if they might perform better. I have my same load sitting in a box, i might just push them in a bit and see what happens.

[.264winmag]

I had trouble getting accuracy out of my ttsx hand loads too, the factory stuff works good, but it’s expensive as hell to buy. I loaded them pretty close to the lands and I’m wondering if I seat them shorter if they might perform better. I have my same load sitting in a box, i might just push them in a bit and see what happens.

30-50thou off the land’s definitely helped lower pressures but didn’t do enough in the accuracy department for me. I had better luck in the 7-08 for accuracy but unless I’m considering a steady diet of Texas heart shots I don’t feel the need to run them for short range work and be pessimistic about a longer poke.

[.264winmag]

Then there’s the fact that they’re grossly overpriced, over 1$ per pill doesn’t make it any more enjoyable at the range when you don’t see em stacked in there

[375shooter]

Willyqbc and his hunting partners collectively, have an impressive amount of experience using Barnes bullets in hunting situations. If we're lucky, maybe he'll be along to share some of this wealth of information in regards to the lethality of the LRX line. :smile:


Just to give you some food for thought.......

If you think about your own experiences, ask around, or can search up the old poll that was done on here, you will find that the vast majority of animals are shot at under 150 yds....and the farther out you go, the less often those shots happen. Because of that, I start with a group of bullets that I know will perform up close at top velocities.....these would be your Barnes, accubonds, partitions etc. From there I look for ones that have the lowest minimum velocity needed to function, as that will get me the longest useable distance.

Usually these days, that ends up being the Barnes LRX......realistically no upper limit on speed, they will smash through and hold together at the highest velocities. they also have a reasonable bottom end....for your 300WSM that would be about 1600 fps and 1000 ft/lbs for the 175 and 190 LRX. On your 300 WSM that would put the 175's operating range approximately 0-700 yds comfortably. Ive been loading barnes for 20 years and have never found them to be difficult to tune.
There are softer bullets out there that will get you more distance, but you will have to sacrifice performance up close for the very rare occasion that you may need to go long. Not worth it in my books, set up for your most common shot, and make the compromise on your least common shot

JMO
Chris

[VLD43]

I had trouble getting accuracy out of my ttsx hand loads too, the factory stuff works good, but it’s expensive as hell to buy. I loaded them pretty close to the lands and I’m wondering if I seat them shorter if they might perform better. I have my same load sitting in a box, i might just push them in a bit and see what happens.

I have always had lots of success with Barnes bullets. They usually like lots of jump. I know the .030 to .070 rule, but I have found that sometimes they like well over that. Somewhere between .100 and .150. Al of my barnes loads shoot sub MOA if I do my part. Have never had anything walk away from them, right out to 500 yds.

[KodiakHntr]

Only ran one ttsx through a good size Muley up in the timber, 7-08 inside 30 yds high lungs had to put another in his gearbox as he was suffering. Same shot with a cup/core I’d be sitting on an extra round...

I've killed or been close witness to a lot of stuff being killed with most (all?) flavours of Barnes, except maybe the XLC's. I don't recall shooting any of those ever, but I could be wrong.
I WANT to like them. But the only times I have had relatively consistently quick kills (as in, whump/thump on the ground) was with light for caliber bullets pushed over 3300fps at the muzzle. That was *fairly* consistent across the spectrum if impact velocity was above 2600fps. I did see a couple of hinky things happen with 168 TSX's on elk where the impact was over 3000 fps that didn't impress me much as far as temporary wound cavity damage went, and a failure to open OR penetrate. Although I also had some immediate bang/flops on bull elk with the same combination out to 100-ish yards.
My only real elk rodeo was a 168 TSX from my 300 Ultra that entered a big bull at 12 yards quartering in that completely broke the onside legbone, punctured one lung, caught liver, and was under the hide under the opposite side hind quarter. He spun around, almost went down, took another one that was supposed to be a hard raking texas heart shot but ended up only slipping along the body and hitting the other front leg back to front, breaking that bone. He made it 600+ yards over the next 6 hours on two broken front wheels, when I jumped him up at maybe 30 yards and put another quartering away round through his remaining lung and out in front of his off side shoulder. A minute + later he still needed a finisher to the base of the skull when he was trying to get up and fight me. Internal damage was adequate in my opinion to kill him inside a minute of the first shot, but apparently he didn't share that opinion. I chalk that up to "some animals die harder deaths than others".

I had some ridiculously decisive kills with 45 tsx/223AI on big muleys (3850fps mv) out to 200-ish yards and 50 TTSX's at 3200 from 223's out to 177 yards, 53 tsx produced some runners, 62 TTSX had some runners, 120TSX at 3450 fps mv showed bang flops regardless of placement.

All that said, my 280AI with 150TTSX at 2850fps mv has folded up 3 elk and 3 moose like the ground reached up and grabbed them from 90 yards to 424 yards. Another bull elk ran maybe 60 yards after being laced through ribs and off side shoulder, and the first 50 yards didn't show any blood at all on the snow, but I think in the last 10 yards ALL the blood was out. When they work, they work really well. But sometimes they don't work all that shit hot. A couple of the longer shots showed minimal expansion on flesh and recovered bullets that didn't expand all that great, but were instantaneous kills. Go figure.

For me though, Barnes are always going to be for punching shoulders at close to moderate range. I don't trust the damage inflicted once they start getting stretched out there. Broken shoulders are always on the menu for me when using a mono, and the thought that there might be a follower needed immediately.

[.264winmag]

When somebody has some real world experiences running LRX through game at long ranges and lower velocities I’ll be very interested. Until then my proof is personally all I need to run frangible projectiles. I agree that for years a long shot was 200yds, then I started to learn how to shoot. And got some good glass. And low and behold there is plenty of game out passed there just waiting for a sleeping pill. Not a year goes by now I don’t poke something at 350+. It’s not all that hard and actually quite enjoyable and effective. Maybe get some euro glass instead of that vortex stuff and them critters will show up out further HA

[Osprey87]

If your wanting to get into longer range shots a scope that has reliable tracking is the most important thing. 4-500 yards is still within most hunting bullets capabilities of proper expansion

[GROOTSKY]

For hunters who like the Berger bullets but are worried about them being to frangible for hunting, the hybrid target line may be an option. They are almost identical to their EOL & hunter bullets except that the jackets are slightly thicker and the meplat is slightly smaller, but still has the hollow nose cavity.

I think this would allow for closer/higher velocity shots possibly giving better penetration yet still allowing the bullet to fragment.

On the 153.5 grain .264(6.5) target hybrid I was able to clean out the nose cavity easily with a .028" pin drill then opened them up to .031, that is where I'm going to leave them. With a muzzle velocity of 3000FPS I don't believe there would be any expansion issues out to 500or more yards and I think they may hold together better than the 156 EOL at closer ranges.

[.264winmag]

For hunters who like the Berger bullets but are worried about them being to frangible for hunting, the hybrid target line may be an option. They are almost identical to their EOL & hunter bullets except that the jackets are slightly thicker and the meplat is slightly smaller, but still has the hollow nose cavity.

I think this would allow for closer/higher velocity shots possibly giving better penetration yet still allowing the bullet to fragment.

On the 153.5 grain .264(6.5) target hybrid I was able to clean out the nose cavity easily with a .028" pin drill then opened them up to .031, that is where I'm going to leave them. With a muzzle velocity of 3000FPS I don't believe there would be any expansion issues out to 500or more yards and I think they may hold together better than the 156 EOL at closer ranges.

Thats a good tip, I sometimes pack a couple 6.5mm 160 matrix vld’s if I might have a close encounter. They hold together quite well and destroy vitals in tight if need be.

[Bustercluck]

Has anybody tried the lapua d46? 185 grain should be decent in a 300wsm. Maybe I’ll buck the trends and order abox

[.264winmag]

Has anybody tried the lapua d46? 185 grain should be decent in a 300wsm. Maybe I’ll buck the trends and order abox
Fmj? I believe that would be illegal...

[Bustercluck]

Fmj? I believe that would be illegal...
It’s listed as a hunting/sport shooting bullet on their site.

[375shooter]

I know where there is 1 box of .308 200 gr LRX bullets for sale. 1 in 10" or faster twist required. PM if interested.


After some more reading and thinking I decided not to go with the eld-x, then I tried finding some Barnes Lrx, but they’re nowhere to be found in Canada.

I don’t know why, but every time I try to buy something it’s sold out or can’t be found.

[.264winmag]

It’s listed as a hunting/sport shooting bullet on their site.
I’m pretty certain there’s a law against non-expanding bullets being used for hunting purposes, fmj falls under non-expanding iirc.

[.264winmag]

But if you want to disregard the real world experiences of a a couple proven excellent long range pills for a closed tip hail mary be my guest. But I’d run em through some test medium first, something I do with all my pills these days before trying to punch a tag with em...

[.264winmag]

https://imgur.com/gallery/5rffM1U
Dunno if this emulates the .30 cal pills but here’s some testing I did with reduced loads into Hematite as a medium. All rounds were fired out a 7-08 and 6.5cm through a crony first then into the medium a few inches from the medium. A couple of interesting things I noted during the test is the Ttsx seemed to outperform the LRX on all fronts including penetration. The LRX actually penetrated 4” less than the rest even though it expanded the least. The rest made it around 16” into the hematite. All the rest look to be imo decent projectiles out to 500yd and beyond in the case of the amax especially. Is this the same as a test on game, no. But it gives an idea on what it it takes to open up a pill and how it will likely hold together.

[.264winmag]

Years ago I did rock a 300h&h and ran a few 185 Berger’s through a Grizz, a bull elk and a few coyotes from 30yds to 540yds. I had no complaints...

[GROOTSKY]

I’m surprised the 140 VLD retained as much weight as it did while still having some of the widest expansion of your testing. It would be interesting to see what kind of weight it would shed at more realistic impact velocities.

[.264winmag]

I’m surprised the 140 VLD retained as much weight as it did while still having some of the widest expansion of your testing. It would be interesting to see what kind of weight it would shed at more realistic impact velocities.
I can tell you what they retain on critters at realistic ranges, FA with large wound channels and fast expiration. 10 to 800yds , 3300 to 2200 usually bang flop. The worst was a wt buck around 70yds with a 3300fps mv load, through a thicket headed up a bank sneaking away. Hit him in the back between both shoulders. Pretty gruesome but didn’t feel a thing. Outside a few hundred yds they are at best hung up in offside hide and weigh around 50-75%. Inside that less than 50% and often less inside 350yds.

[GROOTSKY]

That’s why I feel safe using the 153 hybrids, they will deliver great terminal performance up close but still expand well at ranges I’m comfortable at-sub 500 yards. They were not my first choice but with the 156 EOL seemingly unavailable for the foreseeable future I feel they will work well for those looking for a heavy for caliber bullet.

[.264winmag]

That’s why I feel safe using the 153 hybrids, they will deliver great terminal performance up close but still expand well at ranges I’m comfortable at-sub 500 yards. They were not my first choice but with the 156 EOL seemingly unavailable for the foreseeable future I feel they will work well for those looking for a heavy for caliber bullet.

One could just also just slow a 140HVLD down, or an amax, eldx etc. Say run em at 6.5*****-more velocities and get similar results on game while running them through fur in their performance window...

[.264winmag]

I personally like a projectile that shrapnels, after running dozens though critters I’ve come to the conclusion that’s what creates wick anchoring. Shutting down the cns opposed to just punching a clean hole through-throug waiting for a bleed-out. A hole through a critters lungs will ultimately make the animal expire, obviously, but think target arrow versus broad head. Call it whatever you like, hydrostatic shock, larger wound channel, velocity or energy. If there are multiple fragments the chance of the spine or multiple organs being affected resulting in quicker anchoring. This doesn’t necessarily mean the animal expires much quicker but he is less likely to travel far after impact. This is desirable when it might be dicey for a follow up shot or travel far into a thicket etc. resulting in a stressful tracking episode. I’m no rocket surgeon, but run a lot of lead through game and eat well.

[GROOTSKY]

I once read a post that I thought was interesting, the author said that all thinks being equal as in bullet weight and construction the common denominator was that the faster his bullet hit the animal the harder it hit the dirt-speed kills. I realize there are many variables in play like angle and shoot placement. I think slowing a bullet down to achieve a desired result is counterproductive, no need to give up the benefits of speed such as more downrange energy, less drop and wind drift.

[GROOTSKY]

I used to be a Barnes fan and there is no doubt that they penetrate from any angle but I have to say the kills were not spectacular, never lost an animal but never had one pile up either. A fragmenting bullet drops them fast but also comes with a responsibility of precise shot placement.

[.264winmag]

I once read a post that I thought was interesting, the author said that all thinks being equal as in bullet weight and construction the common denominator was that the faster his bullet hit the animal the harder it hit the dirt-speed kills. I realize there are many variables in play like angle and shoot placement. I think slowing a bullet down to achieve a desired result is counterproductive, no need to give up the benefits of speed such as more downrange energy, less drop and wind drift.
That argument has some merit, speed and energy does kill. Higher the speed the easier that hydro shock is created, but bullet fragmentation has to play a role in my experience. I’ve just dug to many prices of shrapnel out critters that pole axed instantly to believe otherwise. Slowing down frangible bullets definitely lowers chance of meat loss and bullet failure, the only two arguments I see valid in not utilizing said projectiles. Imo long range doesn’t start until 500 yds, and in that scenario there is no argument that a frangible high bc pill pushed fast doesn’t work well.

[.264winmag]

I used to be a Barnes fan and there is no doubt that they penetrate from any angle but I have to say the kills were not spectacular, never lost an animal but never had one pile up either. A fragmenting bullet drops them fast but also comes with a responsibility of precise shot placement.
I’ve seen frangible work well even with less then desirable shot placement especially at extended ranges. One-lung, liver or paunch a big game animal with a stout bullet and you are likely in for a bit of roller coaster ride. Same shot with a frangible and I’m smokin cigarettes walking down to him piled up not far away...

[GROOTSKY]

I guess that is what I was trying to say, I’m not a shoulder shot guy but I would definitely stay clear of it at any range.

[.264winmag]

I guess that is what I was trying to say, I’m not a shoulder shot guy but I would definitely stay clear of it at any range.
High shoulder is my go to at extended ranges...

[VLD43]

I personally like a projectile that shrapnels, after running dozens though critters I’ve come to the conclusion that’s what creates wick anchoring. Shutting down the cns opposed to just punching a clean hole through-throug waiting for a bleed-out. A hole through a critters lungs will ultimately make the animal expire, obviously, but think target arrow versus broad head. Call it whatever you like, hydrostatic shock, larger wound channel, velocity or energy. If there are multiple fragments the chance of the spine or multiple organs being affected resulting in quicker anchoring. This doesn’t necessarily mean the animal expires much quicker but he is less likely to travel far after impact. This is desirable when it might be dicey for a follow up shot or travel far into a thicket etc. resulting in a stressful tracking episode. I’m no rocket surgeon, but run a lot of lead through game and eat well.

I find your comments interesting. I used to hunt with nothing but Seirra Game Kings and took lots of game with them. They almost always turned into shrapnel, and as you point out the animal usually hits the dirt on impact. Other hunters I mentioned this to told that you always want a bullet to pass right through an animal so you have a good blood trail. Since I have changed over to stouter bullets, I now get lots of pass throughs, but I don't see the blood trial everyone talks about often. In most cases the stouter bullets anchor game, but occasionally they go some distance(up to 100 yds). I remember a Rocky Mountain Bighorn I shot at about 150 yds. It was a great shot, right where you want it, through the lungs. It was a barnes 150 gr TTSX going about 3100 fps. The ram went about 50 yds before hitting the ground. There was not a speck of blood on the ground anywhere.

On another topic, I see you tested Hornady Interbonds and they look like they perform well. Have you shot any game with them, and if so, what was your impression.

[GROOTSKY]

If your fragmenting bullet turns an animals internals to soup then an exit hole and a blood trail sorta become irrelevant. I’ll take massive hydrostatic shock over an exit any day

[.264winmag]

I find your comments interesting. I used to hunt with nothing but Seirra Game Kings and took lots of game with them. They almost always turned into shrapnel, and as you point out the animal usually hits the dirt on impact. Other hunters I mentioned this to told that you always want a bullet to pass right through an animal so you have a good blood trail. Since I have changed over to stouter bullets, I now get lots of pass throughs, but I don't see the blood trial everyone talks about often. In most cases the stouter bullets anchor game, but occasionally they go some distance(up to 100 yds). I remember a Rocky Mountain Bighorn I shot at about 150 yds. It was a great shot, right where you want it, through the lungs. It was a barnes 150 gr TTSX going about 3100 fps. The ram went about 50 yds before hitting the ground. There was not a speck of blood on the ground anywhere.

On another topic, I see you tested Hornady Interbonds and they look like they perform well. Have you shot any game with them, and if so, what was your impression.

Ran Sierra game kings out the 270 for awhile, they came unglued often in close but killed quickly. Then I poked a little blacktail in his bed at 300, he never moved as I punched it though both shoulders and clipped the spine. I didn’t find any shrapnel or meat loss however and I started to see that although frangible at high speeds there was a dropping off in damage even at modest velocities, so I went faster and the inner jacketed with the 264.

Only poked one animal with the 7-08/IB so far. 300# 4x Mulie around 100yds. Heart shot quartered away bullet travelled through offside shoulder hung up inside far side hide. 2800fps mv, 139 pill weighed 132.3 with an expansion to .720”. Little mule kick and trotted off about 30yds. I’d say it worked fantastic in that situation.

[.264winmag]

On the note of blood trails, I can’t count how many times I’ve not had a speck of blood even with a pass though and there he is lying there piled up 50yds away. Even in fresh snow not a speck for 50 yds, then a giant pool under him. I’m a fan of watching an animals reaction to the hit, making a mental note of where he headed and how well he was getting there. If I find no blood I don’t get worried or give up, he usually isn’t far. Makes me wonder how often this happen with little tracking effort. Lots of hair usually not a great sign of a good hit. I don’t shoot to get a blood trail to follow, I shoot to see him fall...

[.264winmag]

Woulda been a real looker in a couple more years, but was getting down to the wire on way home from work and I was hungry. That little savage slinging interbonds might be my go to for timber mulies though...

https://imgur.com/gallery/vXmwIiX (https://imgur.com/gallery/vXmwIiX)

[VLD43]

On the note of blood trails, I can’t count how many times I’ve not had a speck of blood even with a pass though and there he is lying there piled up 50yds away. Even in fresh snow not a speck for 50 yds, then a giant pool under him. I’m a fan of watching an animals reaction to the hit, making a mental note of where he headed and how well he was getting there. If I find no blood I don’t get worried or give up, he usually isn’t far. Makes me wonder how often this happen with little tracking effort. Lots of hair usually not a great sign of a good hit. I don’t shoot to get a blood trail to follow, I shoot to see him fall...

Thanks for all your feedback. A lot of what you have observed is very similar to my experiences. Nothing wrong with that buck. He may not be a monster, but lots of guys on this site would not hesitate at a deer like that. But there are few things quite so nice as a big mature mulie on the ground.

[.264winmag]

If your fragmenting bullet turns an animals internals to soup then an exit hole and a blood trail sorta become irrelevant. I’ll take massive hydrostatic shock over an exit any day
That’s how I see it as well, but just an opinion I guess. Plus it’s kinda cool digging projectiles out for examining HA

[.264winmag]

Thanks for all your feedback. A lot of what you have observed is very similar to my experiences. Nothing wrong with that buck. He may not be a monster, but lots of guys on this site would not hesitate at a deer like that. But there are few things quite so nice as a big mature mulie on the ground.
Yes one day maybe I’ll have the patience to hang on to that tag a bit longer lol. In my defence I did pass him up in the morning 20 yds from the road with 6 does. Was bloodhounding the road in the afternoon solo and stopped at my whistle before was out of sight on the high side so he had his chances HA

[VLD43]

Yes one day maybe I’ll have the patience to hang on to that tag a bit longer lol. In my defence I did pass him up in the morning 20 yds from the road with 6 does. Was bloodhounding the road in the afternoon solo and stopped at my whistle before was out of sight on the high side so he had his chances HA

Well you gave him a sporting chance. I am sure the big one will show himself one day when your less than ready to react. Should get the heart rate up. LOL

[.264winmag]

Well you gave him a sporting chance. I am sure the big one will show himself one day when your less than ready to react. Should get the heart rate up. LOL
Had my chance once, all the time in the world. Calm cool and collected but miss-ranged him. Still have nightmares about it. At least I got him on trail camera afterwards, but unfortunately I couldn’t find him again in the flesh. Sure is fun...

[VLD43]

Had my chance once, all the time in the world. Calm cool and collected but miss-ranged him. Still have nightmares about it. At least I got him on trail camera afterwards, but unfortunately I couldn’t find him again in the flesh. Sure is fun...

I think many of us have been there done that. I always tell the young guys the easy shots are the ones you most often miss. I bet you shot over him.

[.264winmag]

I think many of us have been there done that. I always tell the young guys the easy shots are the ones you most often miss. I bet you shot over him.

between his hooves, kicked up some dirt scared the piss out of him...

[Bustercluck]

So I ended up with a box of these today. I went down to our local shop and this is what they had on the shelf, so I’ll give them a go. I went down there looking for these or the regular 180 grain accubond, but the selection wasn’t good. On top of that they gouged me $115 for them. It’s really hard to shop local with prices like that.

https://i.imgur.com/k5MXUOH.jpg

[.264winmag]

$115 for box of 100 is no worse than Barnes. Should be a decent all around bullet choice.

[Bustercluck]

$115 for box of 100 is no worse than Barnes. Should be a decent all around bullet choice.
I don’t mind paying the $115, it’s the $23 difference from other vendors

[.264winmag]

I don’t mind paying the $115, it’s the $23 difference from other vendors
I haven’t looked in awhile but I doubt there’s much in stock anywhere right now. I buy in 1000’s and 8#ers when I can find em. Cheaper and it doesn’t go bad.

[Bustercluck]

I had a guy lap some rings for me last night. He laughed at me when I said my plans were to be able to shoot 500 yards on game. Then he claimed his longest shot on game was at 1340 yards and I believe him. When I first met this guy he was shooting at 500 metres prone, freehand with irons out of a 223.

We’re meeting at the range for a session tomorrow.

[Rotorwash]

I'll be trying those 190 accubond lr in my 300 RUM this season. sure works well on coyotes tho

[todbartell]

I've given up on ABLR a while back. With tuned loads, they still like to wander around the target at their own will

[madcalfe]

ive shot both 178gr and 200gr eldx and also 190gr ABLR (not that big of a fan)
H4350- 178gr eldx
H4831-200gr eldx
my mountain goat was dead as dead can be with the 178's
ill be using the 178's in my custom .300wsm with a 20" tube.
but if your keeping your max range around 400-500 yards id probably go with the nosler accubonds

[Redthies]

I don’t mind paying the $115, it’s the $23 difference from other vendors

That $23 will not mean so much on the day when you need something right now and they are out of business. It’s hard to spend more than you need to, but I try to support local businesses as much as I can.

.264 winmag- I’d be super pleased with that buck. We almost bought an acreage in Cherryville last year. Looks like there are some nice critters out that way.

[Bustercluck]

I was shooting some steel at 565 yards yesterday with some 165 grain(I think interlocks) that I had loaded up a while ago. It was definitely sub moa at 200m and 300m just shooting off of a Harris bipod with no rear rest. I’m definitely going to push it out further, I’m just not sure if I’m comfortable shooting at game much past that.

[Bustercluck]

That $23 will not mean so much on the day when you need something right now and they are out of business. It’s hard to spend more than you need to, but I try to support local businesses as much as I can.

.264 winmag- I’d be super pleased with that buck. We almost bought an acreage in Cherryville last year. Looks like there are some nice critters out that way.

If it were a small mom and pop shop that offered some insight into problems, some level of service or some niche products then I’d feel differently, but it’s canadian tire.

[Weatherby Fan]

I've given up on ABLR a while back. With tuned loads, they still like to wander around the target at their own will

This is my findings as well, have tried them in many different cartridges/calibers and I couldn't get them to shoot, regular Accubonds are very forgiving and seem to shoot well out of most anything

[Redthies]

If it were a small mom and pop shop that offered some insight into problems, some level of service or some niche products then I’d feel differently, but it’s canadian tire.

Well that’s a whole different story!

[grantk]

I was fortunate enough to cut my mulie tag Friday morning using the 178 ELD-X out of my 300WSM, 63.5gr H4350 going 2930 fps. The deer was shot from 50 yards, quartering away slightly. Bullet went through left rear ribs, right ribs, smashed the opposite side humerus bone in half and stopped just short of exiting the far shoulder muscle. Found what was left of the lead core about 1" from the rear copper cup, both pieces together weighed 104.5gr (59%). Somehow that deer absorbed all 3200 ft-lbs and managed to make it 40 yds downhill before piling up with it's front leg pointing straight up. Bloodshotting was extensive on the far side.
https://i.imgur.com/uPegOw3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/OS1FZct.jpg

[todbartell]

now imagine if that was an elk or moose

[Darksith]

Hornady's ELD is the best long range bullet. It keeps proving itself out, plain and simple.

[grantk]

now imagine if that was an elk or moose

I don't know, I think it performed just as expected at close range. If I was planning an elk or moose hunt, I'd probably bump up to 200+gr, as those should hold together better and be less "explosive" due to lower MV. Hitting a major leg bone can be iffy regardless of bullet choice. I don't think the ELD-X is a replacement for Accubonds, Partitions, or TSX's, but at almost half the cost of those options I think it did pretty well.