Shiras Moose????

[~T-BONE~]

Me and my bud here (tom) are having a little debate! We are arguing over the boundries of the Shiras moose. I've googgled a bit and gave up so if anyone can fill in the blanks it would be appreciated.:smile: I hope I'm right. Thanks in advance.. I also have pics to post when reasured..

[dana]

The B&C boundary is the US/Canada Border. The SCI boundary allows for moose taken in Region 4 and Region 8. It is my understanding, the biological boundary doesn't exist. ;)

[WoodOx]

mmhmm I always thought we had mostly shiras in the okanagan, but then I hear some wingnuts tell me they swear they saw a 60"++ moose :wink:

[dana]

Canada moose followed their noses south chasing the wildfires of the 1920's and 30's so there really ain't such thing of a true Shiras in the Okanagan. You can pretty much find the same size bulls (40 incher being big) all the way up to PG. But you can get bigger bulls anywhere in between PG and the border too.

[~T-BONE~]

Where are the S.C.I. boundrys then for Shiras then as this bull or the other bulls I've seen in sothern B.C. go reg.8? I also notice alot of Outfitters offer Shiras moose hunts in there brouchers here in Sothern B.C.

[~T-BONE~]

Anyway this is a region 8 LEH from region 8! Shiras? Close to the border! 10 miles.. 51 inch greatest spread! (outside spread)
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/HPIM1828.JPG (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=6512&ppuser=1677)

[7 mag]

Nice bull! Too bad about the single brows though, That really kicks the snot out of the score.
The bucks are'nt too shabby ether!

[~T-BONE~]

Actually the one brow has 2 points! The other being about 4 or 5 in.

[Rubicon500]

mmhmm I always thought we had mostly shiras in the okanagan, but then I hear some wingnuts tell me they swear they saw a 60"++ moose :wink:


I got 55-56 inch wide set at home found in region 8 while doing some shed hunting..There are some biguns around here

[GoatGuy]

The arbitrarily assigned BS line is HWY # 1. :roll: According to SCI south is Shiras, North Canada.

The only true shiras moose occur in the SE Koots - north koots, west koots and Region 3,8 and up are Canada's. There have been more than a couple 50+" that have been taken in the west koots, atleast one would have come close to the top of SCI but it was a couple miles north of the bs border.

Plenty of 40-50" bulls in region 8 that would make most true shiras bulls look like a runt.

[~T-BONE~]

\
The only true shiras moose occur in the SE Koots - north koots, west koots and Region 3,8 and up are Canada's. There have been more than a couple 50+" that have been taken in the west koots, atleast one would have come close to the top of SCI but it was a couple miles north of the bs border.

Plenty of 40-50" bulls in region 8 that would make most true shiras bulls look like a runt.


Wher did you get your info Goat dude?

[dana]

Now that GG mentioned Highway 1 that seems correct if I remember right. The outfitters are the ones that got SCI to change the boundarys so they could sell their small moose at a higher rate. The SCI is all about Big Money and all that BS. Heck they even allow High Fenced animals in their Book. Why would anyone want to be associated with that I don't know.

[Brambles]

For our club the northern boundry is the #1 in Revelstoke, not sure what the western boundry is though.

[Seeadler]

Well, as stated the B&C say the Can/US border is the boundary. Of coarse it is absurd to think that the moose in 4-01 are any different than the moose just to the south in Montana.

I have a copy of "Hoofed Mammals of BC" or something like that from the UBC press, IIRC it says the Crowsnest Pass is the boundary and those north are an intergrade, and that the moose in the West Kootenay are Canadas. It also has those in the northwest of the province being of the Alaska-Yukon type.

[Fisher-Dude]

Plenty of 40-50" bulls in region 8 that would make most true shiras bulls look like a runt.

So why am I only allowed to harvest one every 56 years, according to the success rate x average Reg 8 LEH odds?

Region 8 harvest is, I believe, 63 resident LEH mature moose, and about 8 - 10 G/O sold moose. In how many thousands of square kilometers? :mad::mad::mad:


T-Bone, I have video that I took of a true 55 inch Shiras in the E Koots from the late 90's. It's the biggest moose I have ever seen in all of southern BC. At 20 yards when he decided he had enough of my calling and put the run on me, he even looked BIGGER! :redface:

[model88]

The outfitter that I guide for here in 4-22 has an ongoing argument over this. 3 years ago I helped guide an archer to a 52" shiras moose, or so we thought.

Aparently Pope and Young doesn't think our moose here are shiras, the hunter tried to enter his bull but was told it wasn't a shiras so now he is pissed at the outfitter for selling the hunt as such.

[J_T]

The outfitter that I guide for here in 4-22 has an ongoing argument over this. 3 years ago I helped guide an archer to a 52" shiras moose, or so we thought.

Aparently Pope and Young doesn't think our moose here are shiras, the hunter tried to enter his bull but was told it wasn't a shiras so now he is pissed at the outfitter for selling the hunt as such. Now that would lead to an interesting discussion/debate.

[BCrams]

Years ago, I knew the moose in the extreme south eastern portion of BC were Shiras.

However, with the steady movement of moose southward from northern and central BC. I am more inclined to believe more and more of those big bulls in the Kootenays are Canada's, including some of the bulls taken in the states adjacent to BC.

Same thing with northern BC. I am sure there are many entries in Boone and Crocket that came from northern BC, which are infact probably the so called Alaskan / Yukon bulls.

[bighornbob]

The problem with the shiras moose is that you cant tell the difference between a Canada moose or a alaska Yukon moose for that fact either, other then size. Just like most animals the farther you go south the smaller the animal gets. Thats why the record books choose an arbitrary line. Like Rams has said the biggest Canada moose come from northern BC usually near the yukon border. These are most likely yukons but they are classed as Canada's as the border is the boundry for the record book.

In my opinion its a way of record books to add another category to keep a certain portion of the population happy and able to enter the record books. I have heard read some grumblings on websites that want to see Alberta, Sask and manitoba whitetails classed as a seperate whitetail becuase they grow so much bigger then the whitetails of the southern states. Ever compare a average weight of a Texas whitetail and one from sask, it is quite a difference.

Back to the question at hand, I have also heard that that the Trans Canada HWY should be the border. But I think that comes from us southern guys complaining our moose dont get as big as PG buls or higher north.

BHB

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Yukon/Alaskan, Canada, Shiras...whatever you want to call them....... All I know is that they all go great with a nice bottle of Shiraz:cool:.

Can't eat them damn antlers anywho!;-)

A moose is thee one animal that I don't care how big his antlers are. Give me a nice medium-sized bull any day and I'll be happy.

About the hunter that wasn't happy that he could get his moose into the P&Y record book as a Shiras.........Did he have a great experience? Harvest a nice animal? I think it should have been up to him to know the boundaries of P&Y. Not the outfitter.

SSS

[BCrams]

A moose is thee one animal that I don't care how big his antlers are. Give me a nice medium-sized bull any day and I'll be happy.

SSS

Or a calf moose :biggrin:

[MattB]

Id rather shoot a 70"er

[model88]

Yukon/Alaskan, Canada, Shiras...whatever you want to call them....... All I know is that they all go great with a nice bottle of Shiraz:cool:.

Can't eat them damn antlers anywho!;-)

A moose is thee one animal that I don't care how big his antlers are. Give me a nice medium-sized bull any day and I'll be happy.

About the hunter that wasn't happy that he could get his moose into the P&Y record book as a Shiras.........Did he have a great experience? Harvest a nice animal? I think it should have been up to him to know the boundaries of P&Y. Not the outfitter.

SSS


SSS

I agree with that last statement 100%, I was there, he had a great trip, shot an awesome bull, memories to last a life time. It wasn't untill we ran into him at one of the outdoor shows did we realize that he was pissed about the whole shiras thing.

[GoatGuy]

Wher did you get your info Goat dude?


Books, papers, magazine subscriptions and the internet :-P


SCI has done that IMO to gain more popularity. P&Y and B&C have likely stuck to what is true not what gains popularity. There are a couple of outfitters just north of the #1 who would love to see SCI change the boundary so their moose fit in the category. It hasn't happened yet.

The biologists in region 4 will give you the same breakdown on the species. South east = shiras, west and north of the rest are more of the Canada variety.


Aside from all this there's 5 or 6 different criteria that have to be met for biologists (not armchair bios) to actually create a sub-species. Can't remember all of them off the top of my head - maybe one of the biologists could dig through their books.