John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves

[Golddust]

Topic was touched on today in his announcement. Person mentioned similar to the Grizzly ban what he thought about the wolves. Definitely a topic of contention - said he would look into it. Could have another ban debacle on our hands in a year or two.

Very frustrating to listen to

I've linked it here - at about 15 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocpIshA6EXI

[Rob Chipman]

Excellent catch. Thanks for that.

As most should understand there is a new development on the....political landscape. The aim is to introduce the idea of a Social License to Hunt, with the clear goal of removing that license incrementally. It's a manufactured issue, in my opinion, but it is very effective by muddying the requirement for science.

The way it will work out is that there will be a call to remove social license to hunt in the absence of enough science to justify the hunt.

Of course, as anyone who tracks this understands, hunters are committed to science but we recognize that the problem is that the science is usually lacking.

The who want SLH reduced are very happy that the science is lacking, because that helps promote their agenda.

They also want to expand the definition of science so that mere wildlife biology is reduced in importance and softer social sciences are able to play a bigger role.

You can find that tactic used in other applications, and we've seen it recently with Covid, protests, and whether the protest is acceptable despite protest. Racial equity is huge health concern, so an anti-racist protest is absolutely fine during the pandemic, while other gatherings that don't qualify as equally important don't get that pass. We witnessed that during 2020.

What that was is a combination of hard medical science (don't congregate during a pandemic) and softer social science (sometimes it's ok to congregate during a pandemic). The combination leads to an internal conflict.

The idea that we can do wildlife management on a hard science basis (an intact, balanced ecosystem as the measure of success) combined with the softer social science (a balanced system is desirable, but not if we need to kill something big, furry and cute) will lead to the same sort of conflict.

[rolllingbreakdown]

It is frustrating when wildlife management is politicized but it seemed to me that he was mostly dodging the question. Talking about his constituents and how they generally feel. And I would say that he is quite correct about that, most of his constituents were pretty pissed about Takaya. Look at where he represents. In the past the language has been more about British Columbians as opposed to constituents.

But he also knows full well how the province is managing wolf numbers as part of its caribou recovery plan and I think he understands that there is no way to proceed with that plan without predator control. And predator control through aerial gunning and trapping is far more effective on a population level then moose hunters opportunistically taking a crack at some wolves.

Just my 2 cents

[VLD43]

Sounds to me like his mind was already made up. He will definitely side with the anti's. One thing to note was that the person asking the question to the premier references a quote by a female big game hunter who stated her objective was trap an entire group or family of wolves. What I would like to know, is where the reporter found this quote. Social Media I would think. WE keep shooting ourselves in the foot with social media. When will people learn to be careful with statements on social media.

[VLD43]

Excellent catch. Thanks for that.

As most should understand there is a new development on the....political landscape. The aim is to introduce the idea of a Social License to Hunt, with the clear goal of removing that license incrementally. It's a manufactured issue, in my opinion, but it is very effective by muddying the requirement for science.

The way it will work out is that there will be a call to remove social license to hunt in the absence of enough science to justify the hunt.

Of course, as anyone who tracks this understands, hunters are committed to science but we recognize that the problem is that the science is usually lacking.

The who want SLH reduced are very happy that the science is lacking, because that helps promote their agenda.

They also want to expand the definition of science so that mere wildlife biology is reduced in importance and softer social sciences are able to play a bigger role.

You can find that tactic used in other applications, and we've seen it recently with Covid, protests, and whether the protest is acceptable despite protest. Racial equity is huge health concern, so an anti-racist protest is absolutely fine during the pandemic, while other gatherings that don't qualify as equally important don't get that pass. We witnessed that during 2020.

What that was is a combination of hard medical science (don't congregate during a pandemic) and softer social science (sometimes it's ok to congregate during a pandemic). The combination leads to an internal conflict.

The idea that we can do wildlife management on a hard science basis (an intact, balanced ecosystem as the measure of success) combined with the softer social science (a balanced system is desirable, but not if we need to kill something big, furry and cute) will lead to the same sort of conflict.

I would suggest that if the scenario you envision unfolds there would be a huge amount of opposition from the Guide Outfitter community. There is no justification for what they do other than money. They are definitely not hunting to sustain themselves by using the game harvested to feed their families.?

[MichelD]

I wasn't going to mention her name, even though it seems she's happy to put it out there but it is in the discussion section of this Facebook thread.

https://www.facebook.com/takayalonewolf/

She's been in the media spotlight before.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/trophy-hunting-jacine-jadresko-1.3974716

[VLD43]

I wasn't going to mention her name, even though it seems she's happy to put it out there but it is in the discussion section of this Facebook thread.

https://www.facebook.com/takayalonewolf/

She's been in the media spotlight before.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/trophy-hunting-jacine-jadresko-1.3974716

Thanks for the link. So between Facebook and W5 here we go again. It's to bad that all these people who think there going to prevail in this, and like to post pictures of there successes, don't realize the damage they are doing. The Hunting and Trapping community in this province is small compared to the rest of the population. Get the other 95% fired up with these social media posts and kiss hunting good by. Sure won that one eh?

[MichelD]

I'd hazard a guess that it's commercially oriented.

https://www.realtree.com/global-hunting/articles/10-minutes-with-realtree-global-girl-jacine-jadresko

http://www.teamwild.tv/the-experts/jacine-jadresko

https://www.realtree.com/global-hunting/videos/barbary-ram-hunt-with-jacine-jadresko

[VLD43]

I'd hazard a guess that it's commercially oriented.

https://www.realtree.com/global-hunting/articles/10-minutes-with-realtree-global-girl-jacine-jadresko

http://www.teamwild.tv/the-experts/jacine-jadresko

https://www.realtree.com/global-hunting/videos/barbary-ram-hunt-with-jacine-jadresko

Thanks for the links. Some one needs to enlighten her about her ambitions VS wildlife politics in BC and the negative affect she is having posting the wolf stuff she does.

[3than]

Social media is a killer for hunters/trappers especially when the "kill em all" type attitude is being shown to people. It definitely doesn't make hunters/trappers look good.

[Sitkaspruce]

The wolf kill is being held up in court......by a group who had never done a thing for wildlife.

https://pacificwild.org/were-taking-the-bc-government-to-court/

Cheers

SS

[1911]

What a disaster. Thanks for posting.

M.

[Golddust]

Social media is a killer for hunters/trappers especially when the "kill em all" type attitude is being shown to people. It definitely doesn't make hunters/trappers look good.


everything about this is frustrating. The negligence and polarizing narrative of the antis as well as the ridiculous public statements by some "hunters". Some people shouldn't be allowed access to social media

[VLD43]

everything about this is frustrating. The negligence and polarizing narrative of the antis as well as the ridiculous public statements by some "hunters". Some people shouldn't be allowed access to social media
Hopefully one day all hunters and trappers will get the concept that there consequences to your actions, some good and some bad. When it comes to social media it is usually all bad. We need to encourage one another to use discretion when posting and stay off facebook with your hunting and trapping activities. If you need to brag phone some one

[Kos]

Social media is nothing but a fire starter.

[Rieber]

Social media is nothing but a fire starter.

That's right. Don't believe everything you read online.

[Blacktail1]

Ya ban it all you want I’ll auger a hole in every one I see Horgan can pound it.

[BiohazardHands]

I wasn't going to mention her name, even though it seems she's happy to put it out there but it is in the discussion section of this Facebook thread.

https://www.facebook.com/takayalonewolf/

She's been in the media spotlight before.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/trophy-hunting-jacine-jadresko-1.3974716


Just read the article. She honestly doesn't sound like a great ambassador for the hunting community. Maybe I'm just use to listening to Steve Rinella who probably wouldn't use the line "The more you hate, the more I kill."

On another note, with the trophy hunting mentioned in that article, have any of you watched the film 'Trophy' on Netflix? I am not pushing an agenda by recommending the film, its just another side of what people see trophy hunting as. Although, from how it is portrayed in the film, I wouldn't consider any of it ''hunting.''

[Frosty]

Just read the article. She honestly doesn't sound like a great ambassador for the hunting community. Maybe I'm just use to listening to Steve Rinella who probably wouldn't use the line "The more you hate, the more I kill."

On another note, with the trophy hunting mentioned in that article, have any of you watched the film 'Trophy' on Netflix? I am not pushing an agenda by recommending the film, its just another side of what people see trophy hunting as. Although, from how it is portrayed in the film, I wouldn't consider any of it ''hunting.''

No she has always sounded smug and arrogant, I watched a facebook thread where she completely bashed a couple that were new to cougar hunting. Her and blacktailstalker from here dragged this couple through the mud for taking a younger male cougar. People just new to cougar hunting, learning the ropes themselves attacked by elitist hunting mentality. I felt so bad for them, they were so excited. Like anyone taking their first buck.

[Blueback2014]

[I wonder how the cappuccino sucking condo dwellers would react to photos of wolves eating animals while they are still alive. Seeing a deer trying to stand with its guts hanging out. Yes such a sweet gentle cuddly animal . toQUOTE=3than;2232465]Social media is a killer for hunters/trappers especially when the "kill em all" type attitude is being shown to people. It definitely doesn't make hunters/trappers look good.[/QUOTE]

[325]

Unfortunately many of the wounds that tarnish the image of hunting are self-inflicted. The combative, inflammatory language some hunters use on social media is intended to challenge or provoke people who question the validity of a hunt. As a consequence, we lose opportunities to rationally and respectfully educate the non-hunting public.

[Island Idiots]

I think we need to use social media for our advantage. When tourist observing grizzly bears see a boar disembowel a cub they scream for someone to kill it. Real life scenes like these with wolves doing their worst will sway the masses. We need to educate the public and the government. IMO

[russm86]

[I wonder how the cappuccino sucking condo dwellers would react to photos of wolves eating animals while they are still alive. Seeing a deer trying to stand with its guts hanging out. Yes such a sweet gentle cuddly animal . toQUOTE=3than;2232465]Social media is a killer for hunters/trappers especially when the "kill em all" type attitude is being shown to people. It definitely doesn't make hunters/trappers look good.[/QUOTE]

Maybe we need to get more footage of stuff like this out on the social media sites... for comparison and shot of reality...

[chilcotin hillbilly]

The wolf kill is being held up in court......by a group who had never done a thing for wildlife.

https://pacificwild.org/were-taking-the-bc-government-to-court/

Cheers

SS
the wolf cull is going ahead, there has been changes to the wildlife act recently to allow arial gunning.

[VLD43]

[I wonder how the cappuccino sucking condo dwellers would react to photos of wolves eating animals while they are still alive. Seeing a deer trying to stand with its guts hanging out. Yes such a sweet gentle cuddly animal . toQUOTE=3than;2232465]Social media is a killer for hunters/trappers especially when the "kill em all" type attitude is being shown to people. It definitely doesn't make hunters/trappers look good.[/QUOTE]
While I understand your passion, enthusiasm and frustration, you gotta be careful what you say to the cappuccino sucking condo dwellers. They are the main audience of our Government and the ones who's wishes will be responded to. We as hunters are in the minority, like it or not. Part of the problem we face as hunters is people among us who are not very articulate or well suited to speak on these issues. They let testosterone and anger rule their narrative, instead of a good political narrative and a reasoned response. Best to let those on are side who speak well talk for us. Doing the shock and awe campaign on the condo dwellers will just turn them off, and then you have lost their attention. They will write you off as red necks and be done with you.

[IronNoggin]

So... Horgan is once again pissing you off?
Good.
Bloody GOOD in fact!
Maybe, just maybe that will be the lever to get some of you off your asses and do something about it!

In a related post on another Forum, I was pm'd and asked my opinion of the apathy among our hunting Community.
Here's my public response:

I wrote a reply to a pm recently that was centered on these matters...
Not going to id just whom it was from.
Thought about it a spell, but decided I simply want this off my chest...

"While I am neither shocked nor surprised, I am more than dismayed.
The lack of attention and focus will be our downfall.
Apathy has always been the greatest single weapon working against us.
Unfortunately that is now counted on explicitly by all of our enemies.
And our side continues to munch popcorn and sit on their collective asses.
Some of them deserve what is coming...

Ticked - Matt"

Still ticked today.
Information was posted on multiple sites.
Only interest it really gained was the usual dogfight on Gun Nutz.
Perhaps all of 3 of 4 noted they were going to submit counter letters to those listed.

So, is this latest from Horgan enough catalyst for any of you to write a letter or two?
Or are you all simply content to continue to sit on your asses munching popcorn, and complaining to The Choir? :roll:

Wondering...
Nog

[adriaticum]

Unfortunately many of the wounds that tarnish the image of hunting are self-inflicted. The combative, inflammatory language some hunters use on social media is intended to challenge or provoke people who question the validity of a hunt. As a consequence, we lose opportunities to rationally and respectfully educate the non-hunting public.



Wrong.
For decades before social media and internet people were "respectfully educating" the public about hunting. And we lost opportunities.
Now people are using "inflammatory language". We lost opportunities.
So we lose opportunities regardless of what we do.

It's called Stockholm syndrome. When you beat someone senseless and they believe you are doing it for their benefit.

[ElectricDyck]

Yeah the hunting culture war has been lost in Canada...If I made a living off the average middle class hunter I would be looking at a career change...maybe this is why BCWF focuses so much on habitat..they see the writing on the wall for hunting...

[Bigdoggdon]

Picture this, a campaign style poster. On the left side a picture of a wolf with the caption "This is the face of a baby killer".

On the right side a picture of a wolf pack covered in blood feeding on a moose/caribou calf.

Story under photo:

"Each year scenes like this play out across BC as an unchecked Wolf population expansion decimates the populations of BC's Ungulates. The increasing Wolf populations are expanding into new areas using the vast networks of resource roads built in support of industry. As Ungulate populations fall this scene will begin to play out in your communities when Wolves, finding little food left in our forests, begin preying on other available food supplies such as family pets and children. Please support the Wolf population correction project"

(Can't say Wolf Cull people lose their shit).

BDD

[finngun]

Vld 43,While I understand your passion, enthusiasm and frustration, you gotta be careful what you say to the cappuccino sucking condo dwellers//%%hey i know many really good hunters living in condos,,,dont paint,them all with same brush. ,,,

[VLD43]

Vld 43,While I understand your passion, enthusiasm and frustration, you gotta be careful what you say to the cappuccino sucking condo dwellers//%%hey i know many really good hunters living in condos,,,dont paint,them all with same brush. ,,,

Not trying to paint everyone with the same brush. Just trying to make the point that there are few people in this province who hunt compared to those who don't hunt. As the majority don't hunt, I believe we as hunters need to take care how we engage the non hunting community. They have no skin in the game and are more likely to view hunting based on emotional principles vs practical or scientific ones. Get on the wrong side of them, or disrespect them and they will turn on you. The quote above you mention was posted by another and I just used to respond back.

[Sitkaspruce]

the wolf cull is going ahead, there has been changes to the wildlife act recently to allow arial gunning.

Maybe down in your area you have a "Manager" who has decided to allow the hunt to continue, but up here, we don't have that "Manager" and right now it is closed. The Bio who looks after the project was instead working in the Omineca instead of up here. The argument they are using is that the Contractors don't have the authority to use helicopters; they are saying the contractor is no different than you or me using a helicopter. Aerial gunning is not the issue, its who is who is doing the shooting that they are tying up the project with.

I haven't talked to anyone in a couple weeks, so maybe it is back on again, but in mid January, it was not.

Cheers

[3than]

Not looking good.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-bc-to-tighten-rules-for-trapping-wolves/

[VLD43]

Not looking good.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-bc-to-tighten-rules-for-trapping-wolves/

I just knew that Horigan would cave on this. He is not a hunter and has little time for hunters. Has no interest or understanding of what we do.

[3than]

I just knew that Horigan would cave on this. He is not a hunter and has little time for hunters. Has no interest or understanding of what we do.

It was expected. You can't mix politics and wildlife management anymore. You can tell from the video he has no knowledge of hunting and has no interest in it.

[tigrr]

We need more stories/videos posted of a pack of wolves following a deer that they slashed the hind legs so bad it was walking bleeding to death. The wolves were scared off but came back in the dark and ate the entire deer, except the large bones and vertebrae.
Or the moose cow that had been bitten and chewed on and was losing strength and the 6 wolves took her down.
Both times no camera or gun. But I don't sled or fish empty handed anymore.

[Redthies]

The biggest problem here is our failure to see Jadresko as the biggest problem. Openly posting and boasting about all the kills one makes, and especially on social media is the stupidest thing any hunter can do. Even more so with predators. The anti hunting movement seem to have a soft spot for the critters that would gladly kill THEM.

If we want to see hunting continue in this province, we need to control our own. That’s just the unfortunate reality.

[Rackmastr]

The biggest problem here is our failure to see Jadresko as the biggest problem. Openly posting and boasting about all the kills one makes, and especially on social media is the stupidest thing any hunter can do. Even more so with predators. The anti hunting movement seem to have a soft spot for the critters that would gladly kill THEM.

If we want to see hunting continue in this province, we need to control our own. That’s just the unfortunate reality.

There is ZERO chance of 'controlling our own' 100%. Even if 99.5% of hunters all condone those types of posts, dont do anything inappropriate on social media, promote positive hunting and the reasons why we hunt, and portray hunters in a perfect light, the BC govt has just shown that they are willing to make changes based off ONE individuals postings.

There are single individuals in every single group of people that posts inappropriate things on social media. It should be a very interesting lesson for the Jadresko's of the hunting world (of which there are many) but sadly its just been proven that a single individuals actions can cause a government to make changes based on those actions. Ridiculous really.

[hawk-i]

Sounds like a media setup to me...what a joke

[Imdone]

The Blind leading the Misinformed.

Most of these Anti hunting specialists don't even spend a weekend in the forest never mind a lifetime. Man is here to stay. All wildlife needs to be managed. Including Wolves, G Bear and Cougar.

Pathetic Management practices continue in this Province. And to note. It's NOT Super Natural British Columbia anymore and Never will be.

[SeaScene]

If you presented on social media the industrial meat processing factory slaughter machine killing millions of chickens, sheep, pigs, cattle etc for the great masses (who live in cities) perhaps that would also help along with wolves eating the newborn .... pot calling the kettle black. And at least the meat we eat has a chance to get away could be the caption.

[VLD43]

If you presented on social media the industrial meat processing factory slaughter machine killing millions of chickens, sheep, pigs, cattle etc for the great masses (who live in cities) perhaps that would also help along with wolves eating the newborn .... pot calling the kettle black. And at least the meat we eat has a chance to get away could be the caption.

I see things just as you have stated, but shock therapy and logic are not going to solve this issue. In my mind there are two issues here. First and foremost is that a lot of society is completely detached from nature due to the nature of industrialization. They don't need to hunt or gather food anymore. They just go to the grocery store. Therefore they are detached from the reality that in order for them to live animals such as live stock must die. Because few if any of them have ever been in a slaughterhouse they don't appreciate the fact that they are an apex predator and part of that is eating meat. And they definitely don't want to see dead animals and blood. It shatters the lie they are living. Secondly and more to the point from a hunting perspective, there is way to much ego attached to our sport. All the people who have to post their conquest or hunting success for all to see on social media, like it some how validates them is the real issue. They don't seem to understand these types of posts offend a lot of people. Some of this offended group is just looking for this type of post so they can use it against us. Hunters in general need to learn very quickly to be more discrete and only share their hunts with those who are supportive. Until they learn this things will continue down the same road. Ask yourself "Why do I hunt". Is it because I enjoy the outdoors, the challenge, harvesting natural food, or is because I need validation. If you need validation, hunting doesn't need you.

[SeaScene]

Well said... I agree. The only validation should (rightly) be at the dinner table...

[325]

Well said... I agree. The only validation should (rightly) be at the dinner table...

Predator management is a key part of sound wildlife management. Not all predators are considered edible

[VLD43]

Predator management is a key part of sound wildlife management. Not all predators are considered edible

Absolutely spot on, but people need to get past posting the results of their activities. That is what is sinking us, and now limiting our ability to be proactive in this process. Every time some posts results of their wolf harvesting activities, there is kick back or worse. Now you have a Government who is forced to act based on our collective response to predator management. They are not going to side with us because predator harvesting in general is a very controversial and politically volatile topic. Government is going to do what ever is politically expedient, in spite of what science might other wise suggest. You saw this with the Grizzly Bear hunt, and unfortunately we as a hunting community did not learn any lessons from that experience, so now we get to do it again with wolves, and again come out on the loosing end.

[hawk-i]

Hmmmm,...the bag limit in region 1 is already set at 3, how is one person going to take out a pack if it's more than 3?

[Rob Chipman]

"Predator management is a key part of sound wildlife management. Not all predators are considered edible"

That is a fact. There's a problem, though, in that you can't reason a person out of a position they didn't come to through reason.

I think we need to develop a way of communicating the message that predator management has it's place, and that eating a hunted animal is not the only legitimate reason to hunt and kill that animal.

That message needs to be targeted not so much at anti-hunters, but at non-hunters.


"Government is going to do what ever is politically expedient, in spite of what science might other wise suggest."

That's the danger. We saw that with the G-bear hunt. That said, I think that the government right now is showing some restraint and I think we should recognize that. It would be quite popular in much of the province to simply ban predator hunting, or make it an even bigger and more controversial issue, like what we saw with G-bears.

Instead it seems that the government may be trying to stick with science while navigating a social media micro-crisis - the Minister has announced she closing a "loophole" rather than coming out on the side of anti-predator control people. Loss? Win? Somewhere in between? It certainly could be worse, as we know from experience.

[VLD43]

"Predator management is a key part of sound wildlife management. Not all predators are considered edible"

That is a fact. There's a problem, though, in that you can't reason a person out of a position they didn't come to through reason.

I think we need to develop a way of communicating the message that predator management has it's place, and that eating a hunted animal is not the only legitimate reason to hunt and kill that animal.

That message needs to be targeted not so much at anti-hunters, but at non-hunters.


"Government is going to do what ever is politically expedient, in spite of what science might other wise suggest."

That's the danger. We saw that with the G-bear hunt. That said, I think that the government right now is showing some restraint and I think we should recognize that. It would be quite popular in much of the province to simply ban predator hunting, or make it an even bigger and more controversial issue, like what we saw with G-bears.

Instead it seems that the government may be trying to stick with science while navigating a social media micro-crisis - the Minister has announced she closing a "loophole" rather than coming out on the side of anti-predator control people. Loss? Win? Somewhere in between? It certainly could be worse, as we know from experience.




Good Post Sir
In response to the points you made, hear are my thoughts/suggestions. You mention that eating what you hunt is not always achievable. They eat dog in some societies don't they? LOL. But seriously it has always amazed me what hypocrites people are. The same people who are against trophy hunting, hunting, trapping, predator management, are the same people who with out hesitation will kill a rat, a mouse, a fly, a wasp etc. and think nothing of it. In my world life is life is life. No one is any less valuable than the next. But some how the anti's use the cuteness factor or treat a particular species like a personality. And use this logic to determine whether things should live or die. The whole wolf thing on Discovery Island is a good example. The wolf goes from predator to icon status and next thing you know is representative of all wolves. None should be hunted because their cute and no one eats them. No one eats rats either, but they kill them? Where's the movement to protect rats? I think people need to be challenged in a respectful way to point out the hypocrisy of their actions. When they eat any meat they kill things by extension. When they kill what they perceive as vermin or annoyances they are taking a life, and mostly needlessly. Until the general public understands this and treats wild things as wild, you can't begin a rational conversation, because their judgement is clouded by the media and emotion.

AS to the Government response to this. I think they are presently between a rock and a hard place. Yes they could ban trapping or hunting of wolves and the anti's would rejoice. But on the other hand they would probably get a lot of kick back from guide outfitters and ranchers. I think the Government is trying to look like they are doing something, while doing as little as possible, because they realize the economic hit they would take if ranching and guide outfitting ceased in this province because of wolves. The Government needs to take leadership role in this and let the science guide them. Let the public know the pro's and con's of ignoring predator control. We will see where this ends up.

[SeaScene]

Conservation has a criminal hustler element. There are big bucks to be made playing on guilt of mass, city based consumer culture.... millions of dollars easy money. Bloody images of forest animals what kind of person are you not to assist in our sacrifice to save them. Ontario Fed of Anglers and Hunters over 100,000 members as I recollect grew successful by pointing out to members the bad optics of animal carcass tied up over the car hood and roof ... and in later campaigns with web based forums and publications not to post gore.

[Redthies]

You can't reason a person out of a position they didn't come to through reason.


"Government is going to do what ever is politically expedient, in spite of what science might other wise suggest."
That's the danger. We saw that with the G-bear hunt.

Your first statement I quoted is perfection.

On the second, I’m assuming you saw how fast California back pedalled away from its proposed bear hunting ban? It went from “we’re going to ban bear hunting” to “oh, sorry, we’re actually not banning bear hunting” in about 3 days. Not sure on the whole story there, but I bet it’s good!

[mod7rem]

Well said... I agree. The only validation should (rightly) be at the dinner table...


Sorry but I don’t agree with this. There are many reasons people hunt and some of those reasons are more important to them than others. My family has been raised on wild meat and I still have grown kids that do their meat shopping in my freezer, but I know of quite a few guys that hunt and their families won’t eat wild meat. Lots of bear hunters with families that won’t touch bear meat.
Trying to convince anti hunters that we hunt for sustenance is a transparent lie in my opinion. So is trying to convince those same people that we have to kill wolves because they are evil non empathetic hunters that also kill babies. To me it’s about managing a resource and that resource is wildlife which includes both predators and prey animals.
This is my opinion that I’ve shared before but here it is again.

Re: Op-Ed in today’s Province paper


“using food as a reason is simply an excuse for recreational hunting for the vast majority of hunters.”

This is the only thing in the article I actually agree with, and as a Hunter I will own it all day long.
I’ve been hunting for a long time and in reality the last reason I have for going hunting is because of hunger.
I hunt because the desire to find animals is strong in my DNA and my personality. I’m always hunting no matter whether I’m driving to work or walking with my wife in the park, I’m always looking for animals.
I hunt because I love the challenge, love the training and preparation and completing the loop by processing my own meat and doing my own taxidermy.
I would be an idiot to think I could convince somebody that I hire a float plane to drop me in the mountains, or take a jet boat, or take a large camp setup with RV’s, tents, quads, etc, all costing a lot of $$$$ to wherever I like to go, all because I want food. People aren’t that stupid. I think Hunters try too hard to justify hunting by selling it as something it’s not. It’s way to easy to see through the “hunting for sustenance” reasoning. Don’t get me wrong the meat is a great side benefit. I only kill animals that I choose to kill and I’m totally ok with having an unfilled tag and the reason I can do that is because it has very little to do with needing the food source.
Hunting in Canada is a sport/lifestyle/passion/hobby,,,,,,,,,,,, and in my opinion that’s what we need to fight for because it’s honest and it describes most of what we do.

[Rob Chipman]

I’m assuming you saw how fast California back pedalled away from its proposed bear hunting ban?

I did see that and I think there is a really clear lesson there. My understanding is that there was an online petition, but I'm sure there were lots of calls and letter to elected reps as well. I think we need to up our game on both avenues.

[Rob Chipman]

mod7rem:

I'm not 100% with you - I spend lots of money on hunting in order to get food, but you're right, it ain't economical. It'd be tough for me to argue that I'm a sustenance hunter because of finances. I'll still argue that one of the reasons I hunt is for sustenance.

That said, we face that question: why do you hunt?

Best answer I've heard was Edurado Garcia's "I hunt because I'm human". Makes a lot of sense, and even though it's really short and sweet I think it demonstrates that Garcia has given the issue a lot of thought.

Anyway, you make an important point, so good on you.

[mod7rem]

mod7rem:

I'm not 100% with you - I spend lots of money on hunting in order to get food, but you're right, it ain't economical. It'd be tough for me to argue that I'm a sustenance hunter because of finances. I'll still argue that one of the reasons I hunt is for sustenance.

That said, we face that question: why do you hunt?

Best answer I've heard was Edurado Garcia's "I hunt because I'm human". Makes a lot of sense, and even though it's really short and sweet I think it demonstrates that Garcia has given the issue a lot of thought.

Anyway, you make an important point, so good on you.

I agree with Eduardo Garcia. Makes perfect sense in my situation and the meat for myself and family has been a nice bonus.
I just think the arguments we give to defend hunting should be honest, realistic and unapologetic. I don’t think people need to all agree with why hunting is important to a lot of people, but they need to accept that we aren’t all the same and the resource can work for all of us.
I’ll admit I don’t know exactly how to accomplish that but I do know it pisses me off when someone thinks I’m required to justify to them why I enjoy hunting.

[gcreek]

I would suggest that if the scenario you envision unfolds there would be a huge amount of opposition from the Guide Outfitter community. There is no justification for what they do other than money. They are definitely not hunting to sustain themselves by using the game harvested to feed their families.?


There had better be a whole lot of opposition from every Canadian resident that enjoys freedom! If you don’t think the socialists program of social engineering such as wearing masks and staying in your house and reporting neighbors and all this other bullshit hasn’t got to do with disarming we the people you had better look real closely at the situation again.

First we remove the grizzly hunt, then caribou, then kill off the moose to save caribou so they can shut down moose season, then black bear, cougar and wolves. Now what would you hunters need firearms for if you don’t have anything to hunt anymore?

[gcreek]

Maybe down in your area you have a "Manager" who has decided to allow the hunt to continue, but up here, we don't have that "Manager" and right now it is closed. The Bio who looks after the project was instead working in the Omineca instead of up here. The argument they are using is that the Contractors don't have the authority to use helicopters; they are saying the contractor is no different than you or me using a helicopter. Aerial gunning is not the issue, its who is who is doing the shooting that they are tying up the project with.

I haven't talked to anyone in a couple weeks, so maybe it is back on again, but in mid January, it was not.

Cheers

All it takes to achieve the goal is for someone with enough balls and care for wildlife from higher up to sign a permit.

[VLD43]

There had better be a whole lot of opposition from every Canadian resident that enjoys freedom! If you don’t think the socialists program of social engineering such as wearing masks and staying in your house and reporting neighbors and all this other bullshit hasn’t got to do with disarming we the people you had better look real closely at the situation again.

First we remove the grizzly hunt, then caribou, then kill off the moose to save caribou so they can shut down moose season, then black bear, cougar and wolves. Now what would you hunters need firearms for if you don’t have anything to hunt anymore?

100% agree with your comments. My comments were directed more to the idea that the Government is showing some restraint and letting science rule the day regarding their response to the kick back their getting from the anti's over the facebook post about trapping wolves. My point was that they don't really have much choice in what they do, because they have painted themselves into a corner. Trying to fully appease the Anti's, will have negative financial impacts on other parts of the economy. The Government needs to step up and get on with responsible predator management, in spite of the Anti's. After all who is running this province, the government or the eco terrorists.

[gcreek]

100% agree with your comments. My comments were directed more to the idea that the Government is showing some restraint and letting science rule the day regarding their response to the kick back their getting from the anti's over the facebook post about trapping wolves. My point was that they don't really have much choice in what they do, because they have painted themselves into a corner. Trying to fully appease the Anti's, will have negative financial impacts on other parts of the economy. The Government needs to step up and get on with responsible predator management, in spite of the Anti's. After all who is running this province, the government or the eco terrorists.

We can hope, and Lobby.