Complaints about Ladner swamp brewing in the Delta Optimist

[silveragent]

Within a few days we have two articles relating to use of Ladner swamp in the Delta Optimist.

Here is one where the police responded to someone's complaint about hunters.

https://www.delta-optimist.com/local-news/men-with-camouflage-and-guns-should-not-disturb-cute-little-birds-3299261

And now here is one about city staff fielding complaints about photographers at Brunswick Point.

https://www.delta-optimist.com/local-news/city-of-delta-wants-province-to-help-stop-photographers-from-trampling-sensitive-marsh-3313435

I think we are heading to a point where the nosy people who want people to only experience nature from a paved trail will start to sway city council and the Province.

Gents and ladies, the time is now to make yourself heard or we will lose it. Maybe we can even band together with the photographers? Write Delta city council and the Province.

[jvezina]

Yeah I feel like this problem is getting worse everywhere, Im noticing it more here on Van Isle.

[Would Rather Be Fishing]

I hear you, and get where you are coming from.... to be fair though: The police had to respond and actually sided with the hunters... The kind of idiots with too much time on their hands that have nothing better to do than calling the police on people target pretty much everyone - I was scuba diving once and got the cops called on me for "trespassing" (I wasn't). I think people like that should be fined for wasting public resources the same way you have to pay for calling an ambulance as a joke.

The first case I have mixed feelings: Some areas ARE sensitive habitat/ecosystem and noone should be trampling over them simply to protect the little that was left and help with restauration. There is a reason you can see so many rare birds there and that should be protected. There are plenty of options to circumvent those areas and still hunt/birdwatch... most hunters do that naturally as you have to "get out"...

So... I do get why the signs are there....

[Beachcomber]

Every season idiots call the cops on hunters acting lawfully only to learn that their prejudices aren't going to be enforced by police. As far as photographers go, they swarm that dyke now and letting them all loose in the marsh would be detrimental to that environment. Not so long ago you could walk your dog off leash and enjoy walking out in the marsh with no one around but not now. It is a sad fact of urbanisation.

[adriaticum]

It's time to charge police officers who disturb hunters based on calls from idiots who don't know the law.
These ****ers in uniform have a responsibility not to be morons.

[bigredchev]

I’d bet it someone who is new to Ladner, if you have lived there during waterfowl season you’d know better.

Delta police and not very educated on firearms, have had a few run ins where they don’t know shyte

[f350ps]

It's time to charge police officers who disturb hunters based on calls from idiots who don't know the law.
These ****ers in uniform have a responsibility not to be morons.
Don’t be ridiculous, it’s obvious you don’t get out much! This has been going on forever, we are getting over run with city folks moving to the burbs and this is what happens! I’m a waterfowler in Delta and the DPD have a policy that no call goes without attending!! I’ve had many calls about my activity and not once did I encounter a member that wasn’t sympathetic to our cause and pretty much all of them were apologetic! K

[silveragent]

Yea actually read the first article. The police did us a solid and it was a waste of their time but they were obligated to do the minimal and also educated the complainant. I will take that as a win and the fact it was published in the newspaper also educates them. The danger is that antis will just ignore it or choose to purposely waste police time which leads to questioning resources and then Council starts thinking it may be easier to clamp down somehow. They may not be able to stop hunting but they can pressure the Province. Or the city can enforce the 3 hour parking limit which of course doesn't work for us hunters.

I get that the photographers have been growing in that area but for the most part I've had good conversations with them and at least a couple I talked to also fished and hunted. The same antis who want them out of the swamp would not hesitate to throw us under the bus. From their POV we are all people potentially disturbing wildlife. The photographers are just more visible. I honestly don't see them stamping all over the place - at least not more than us - and they are using long lenses to capture the raptors in flight. The Province could put a ban on movement during hatching season, and that might make sense.

[adriaticum]

Don’t be ridiculous, it’s obvious you don’t get out much! This has been going on forever, we are getting over run with city folks moving to the burbs and this is what happens! I’m a waterfowler in Delta and the DPD have a policy that no call goes without attending!! I’ve had many calls about my activity and not once did I encounter a member that wasn’t sympathetic to our cause and pretty much all of them were apologetic! K

"policy that no call goes without attending", that tells me that they are morons.
But Ok, sorry, I don't hunt Delta waterfowl so it doesn't affect me.
It's none of my business.
But I do know people who hunt there and would appreciate cops not disturbing their hunt at all based on a call from some twat who doesn't like it.
I don't want to hear you bitching when cops start following hunters around and eventually Delta kills all hunting in the city because of a huge waste of police resources and urban enchroachment.
Leasurely approach like yours is the reason there is no more hunting in most municipalities around the country.
Cops attend everything in other countries like Saudi Arabia, Lybia, China etc.
If you want a police state, you've got it.

[f350ps]

"policy that no call goes without attending", that tells me that they are morons.
But Ok, sorry, I don't hunt Delta waterfowl so it doesn't affect me.
It's none of my business.
But I do know people who hunt there and would appreciate cops not disturbing their hunt at all based on a call from some twat who doesn't like it.
I don't want to hear you bitching when cops start following hunters around and eventually Delta kills all hunting in the city because of a huge waste of police resources and urban enchroachment.
Leasurely approach like yours is the reason there is no more hunting in most municipalities around the country.
Cops attend everything in other countries like Saudi Arabia, Lybia, China etc.
If you want a police state, you've got it.
Wow, I feel sorry for you, it's clear you don't get it! K

[THE SWEDE]

There’s Karens everywhere

[silveragent]

Police follow department policy. 100% they don't want to be following up on every lost cat, neighbour dispute or other penny ante bs such as some ignoramus not aware that hunting is legal. If you consider this harassment then the people to complain to are the ones creating that policy and ultimately police follow their political masters who people in the city elect. So instead of laying this on the officers, go up the chain and tell Delta council that it is wasting the precious police time. Let the COs or NROs deal with license and permit enforcement. BTW there is also a committee that discusses hunting on Delta and it meets twice yearly - some local groups may already be represented on it. That would be a good place to start.

[f350ps]

^^^^^ Silveragent gets it! Thanks, K

[adriaticum]

Police follow department policy. 100% they don't want to be following up on every lost cat, neighbour dispute or other penny ante bs such as some ignoramus not aware that hunting is legal. If you consider this harassment then the people to complain to are the ones creating that policy and ultimately police follow their political masters who people in the city elect. So instead of laying this on the officers, go up the chain and tell Delta council that it is wasting the precious police time. Let the COs or NROs deal with license and permit enforcement. BTW there is also a committee that discusses hunting on Delta and it meets twice yearly - some local groups may already be represented on it. That would be a good place to start.


Officers have discretion when attending and those taking the call also have discretion.
When Karen calls and says: "I see two men with guns in camouflage in the Delta marsh walking into the fields, I don't think thats right", the 911 operator could say:
"Is this between x and y street?"
"Yes"
"Mam, it's a hunting ground and it's ok, it's hunting season between months of x and y"

Now when you get repeat calls about something like that you kind of put it on a list in a database that says for this question, this is the answer.
You warn operators about frequent calls between months x and y in area a and b.
So operators, who also don't know hunting seasons, gun laws, etc can quickly answer those questions.

Some people compain about robots taking their jobs saying "Robots can't think and make decisions".
We already have robots who can't think and make decisions.

I could have swallowed your answer without cheweing 50 years ago, but today after 50 seasons of this, not so much.

But because we don't have the CPU to think and elect people who think, it will be much easier for city councils to ban the activity altogether to prevent waste of resources and constant complaints.
All anti hunting groups have to do is increase the number of calls to police.
911 operators have to answer every call, but they don't have to dispatch police on every call.

Most people don't even understand that we will lose many gun ranges in LML in the next 10 years.
They are all under threat.

[835]

There’s Karens everywhere
HEY
long time!

[f350ps]

^^^^WOW, the more you talk the more dumb shit falls out! So, let's leave it up to the 911 operator to be the deciding factor here, is that what you're saying?? Firstly, you're assuming that all the Karens call 911, I would bet most call delta non-emergency, so let's train up a bunch more operators on where and when people can hunt! I called you out because of the remark about the cops being the morons here but now I'm not so sure who really is! As I stated already, The City of Delta, which our force works for, have been told to attend to ALL calls, I'm pretty certain the officers don't like the mandate but it's not their call. K

[Ron.C]

There are morons on both sides of these public land use issues. Not unlike many antihunters who make baseless accusations and statements, some hunters would be better off to keep their mouths shut.

Trying to fight ignorance with increased emotion and more ignorance gets you no where. Often times, just makes matters worse.

Engage other land users when you are hunting these areas. Have respectful dialog. Probably find most dont have an issue with hunting but also dont understand it.

Write letters "not emails" to local politicians and city council members. Ask if they will entertain a phone call or meeting to discuss these issues. Even better if you are a group of hunters sharing a common concern in regards to public land use. Participate in land use meetings whenever you can.

[adriaticum]

^^^^WOW, the more you talk the more dumb shit falls out! So, let's leave it up to the 911 operator to be the deciding factor here, is that what you're saying?? Firstly, you're assuming that all the Karens call 911, I would bet most call delta non-emergency, so let's train up a bunch more operators on where and when people can hunt! I called you out because of the remark about the cops being the morons here but now I'm not so sure who really is! As I stated already, The City of Delta, which our force works for, have been told to attend to ALL calls, I'm pretty certain the officers don't like the mandate but it's not their call. K


I should rephrase 911 operator doesn't make any decisions, they just redirect calls.
But non-emergency operators have discretion whether they will send police to attend or not.
And they are trained, yes.

So tell me then, who is a moron for sending police to non-issues?

[f350ps]

I should rephrase 911 operator doesn't make any decisions, they just redirect calls.
But non-emergency operators have discretion whether they will send police to attend or not.
And they are trained, yes.

So tell me then, who is a moron for sending police to non-issues?
Nevermind, you're never going to get it as obviously your reading comprehension really sucks! K

[f350ps]

There are morons on both sides of these public land use issues. Not unlike many antihunters who make baseless accusations and statements, some hunters would be better off to keep their mouths shut.

Trying to fight ignorance with increased emotion and more ignorance gets you no where. Often times, just makes matters worse.

Engage other land users when you are hunting these areas. Have respectful dialog. Probably find most dont have an issue with hunting but also dont understand it.

Write letters "not emails" to local politicians and city council members. Ask if they will entertain a phone call or meeting to discuss these issues. Even better if you are a group of hunters sharing a common concern in regards to public land use. Participate in land use meetings whenever you can.
Very true Ron, sometimes hunters are their worst enemy! I've had many interactions with the public and the police while waterfowling and very few have been confrontational. Try launching a punt at some of our launches in Boundary Bay and I will promise you somebody will say something. I've found that if you be respectful and explain what you're doing most people just carry on. K

[silveragent]

I've said it elsewhere before. I've been going there for six+ years often almost every weekend (and last year twice or three times a week) and I've never had any overtly negative interaction with the general public. At the most I may have seen a dirty look but I'm not forcing someone to like what I do. In contrast, I've received more than a few well wishes or curious questions about what I am taking out which I am happy to spend a minute or two educating someone about.

One time at Boundary I had a lady overtly shield her gaze from the sight of my bringing out two Canadas on the dyke. Again, I can't force someone to like what I do; I can only ask that they allow me mine and they can have theirs. Aside from that, zero hate in the field. It doesn't mean it does not exist, only that those who are opposed to what we are doing will save it for dumb complaints like this or letter writing.

We can't run from engaging with the public if we want to preserve our tradition. If we don't speak the facts, they will distort reality for others.

[campking]

I've said it elsewhere before. I've been going there for six+ years often almost every weekend (and last year twice or three times a week) and I've never had any overtly negative interaction with the general public. At the most I may have seen a dirty look but I'm not forcing someone to like what I do. In contract, I've received more than a few well wishes or curious questions about what I am taking out which I am happy to spend a minute or two educating someone about.

One time at Boundary I had a lady overtly shield her gaze from the sight of my bringing out two Canadas on the dyke. Again, I can't force someone to like what I do; I can only ask that they allow me mine and they can have theirs. Aside from that, zero hate in the field. It doesn't mean it does not exist, only that those who are opposed to what we are doing will save it for dumb complaints like this or letter writing.

We can't run from engaging with the public if we want to preserve our tradition. If we don't speak the facts, they will distort reality for others.

You are correct but interestingly my friends family owns (not sure if they still do) the last farm on the dyke road and the only problems we ever had when we went for a hunt was with other hunters not the anti's. I guess things have changed.

[silveragent]

Do you mean in Ladner or Boundary? I would be interested to know what conflicts you had. Do you mean your friends' farm was messed with or your party when you went to Brunswick? I think all hunters using Brunswick would want that farm protected as it is a buffer between nimbys and the dyke.

Conflicts with other hunters .. yea that's another story. If it's not sky-busting, it's crowding. If I get a canoe or kayak this summer, it's likely I won't be seen much at Brunswick. I'll be far away from other public land hunters.

[tigger]

Hey folks,
This is my first season waterfowl hunting so my perspective might be a bit different than some of you more seasoned hunters. I only got out a few times to both Brunswick and Boundary bay as I don't have any connections to private farms.
I'll tell you, as a new hunter heading out for the first time, it's intimidating. I did my research, read everything I could, watched as much as my eyes would allow, and tread as lightly as I could into the field so as not to piss off other hunters or draw negative attention from birders/photographers. From my very limited experience, people I ran into were very friendly and more curious than anything else. With an activity like hunting so close to city folk, there's bound to be complaints by uneducated or otherwise disapproving people. Unfortunately, in the court of public opinion, especially in the lower mainland, hunters will never win.

My approach is to draw as little attention as possible and provide no ammunition for complaints. I'd rather keep a low profile than loose access to something I've just found and really enjoy.
BTW - I can't figure out what was open at the time of this article? From what I can see everything is closed until Feb 10th. Am I missing something?
My 2 cents.

[crazy ducker]

Very true Ron, sometimes hunters are their worst enemy! I've had many interactions with the public and the police while waterfowling and very few have been confrontational. Try launching a punt at some of our launches in Boundary Bay and I will promise you somebody will say something. I've found that if you be respectful and explain what you're doing most people just carry on. K
Hey Kelly remember hunting centennial beach for brant and the anti hunters with the jetto blaster blasting music. Personally I like the no call to small. I like the fact that if and when I call for something they are there not hours later. I have no problem with the police coming out when I’m Hunting to check. If I’m hunting close to residential ( my grandparents old farm) I’ve actually called the non emergency number to say we are hunting there and then I didn’t have a problem

[silveragent]

BTW - I can't figure out what was open at the time of this article? From what I can see everything is closed until Feb 10th. Am I missing something?

Probably the incident in question happened during the season and there was a lag in the reporting. I'm pretty sure if the police were tasked to go out there and do their due diligence they would have been overjoyed to actually have to issue a ticket if it was out of bounds.

I think as far as hunting and the general public goes we should keep in mind that those who are actively against hunting already are targeting us but that the vast majority of people are ambivalent. Keeping our head down and not bothering the general public should be our default state, but if there are those who are acting against us - such as calling the police on us, writing letters, lobbying against us, trying to get our areas shut down - to those tactics hiding is not an option.

[crazy ducker]

The hunting story it said was Friday jan 22 at 1230

[tigger]

Agreed, I also think approaching the conversation from a sustainability/accountability angle is the most effective. It's in line with the greater public movement of understanding our food source and taking responsibility for what we harvest and consume. As hunters, we need to be smarter in our approach by countering these lobbyists with their own arguments/values.
That said, for some it's not about reason. They simply do not like the idea of killing an animal no matter how hypocritical their argument may be.

[Bubbacanuck]

Hey Kelly remember hunting centennial beach for brant and the anti hunters with the jetto blaster blasting music. Personally I like the no call to small. I like the fact that if and when I call for something they are there not hours later. I have no problem with the police coming out when I’m Hunting to check. If I’m hunting close to residential ( my grandparents old farm) I’ve actually called the non emergency number to say we are hunting there and then I didn’t have a problem

I really want to try hunting Brant.

[silveragent]

Funny story from today. During a fruitless scouting mission at Brunswick, I'm sitting on the benches sipping my tea when a woman passes by with her two off-leash dogs. We exchange hellos and that's it. I finish up my tea and then start walking back to the car along the dyke. I see her pass by a man a few dozen meters ahead and they are having an animated discussion. They part ways and when I pass by the photographer he says: "be careful, she's nutty. I told her that her dogs needed to be on leash and she said she was going to go get her gun." I'm like: "Wow, really?" Anyway, as I actually have a gun I'm not too worried so keep going and I pass her without any incident (and with just a friendly sniff from her dogs).

At the end of the dyke I see a photographer who was there before I was and asked how his day went and we exchanged pleasantries and I talked with him about the concerns about photographers in the bank. He said he has seen photographers who may be getting too close to the birds but that's that. As we chatted, a jogger comes up with five off-leash dogs. I have seen him before and have chatted with him previously so I'm not concerned but he says: "hey there's no hunting right now." I immediately corrected him and he just shrugged and wasn't going to push it when the photographer snaps back at him: "and all your dogs are off leash!" The dog guy just smiles and then heads off.

Seems like the problem is being a busy body overall!

[tigger]

That's hilarious. I've seen as many bags of doggy doo littering the path as I've seen spent shells in the marsh. As I said, most of my interactions have been positive right down to the lady who asked me if I was fishing for Tuna. I smiled and said no, no tuna today lol.

[MichelD]

I was getting into my truck at Brunswick Point after a skunk day and a pheasant jumped up and flew straight up River Road just as a woman and a dog came by. "Shoot it, shoot it!" she yelled at me.

I had to explain that we don't shoot on roads, or near houses.

[Dutch]

I must admit the last couple years my interactions with the public and police (while hunting) have all been positive.Must be due for the psycho crazy from hell soon:)

[dru88]

I have hunted the Brunswick for the last three seasons and never had a issue with the general public most experiences have been great with some even being educational.