hunting in active logging areas and FSR access

[okanagan hiker]

I have a few questions about logging and FSR access.

I was told by a gentleman who is logging ( private land ) near Squamish that -
- no hunting is allowed anywhere ( even on Crown land ) if there is active logging in the area.
- that an FSR with a locked gate ( even on Crown land ) means that there is NO access allowed, even on foot!

I read thru the Synopsis carefully, couldn't find any references about logging.

Anyone know where or whom I could find regulations about this from?

Thanks in advance

[Wildfoot]

i know up R200 and R201 i have seen yellow signs that say no shooting - active logging in area. but usually just around the one block the guys are working in.

[Kirby]

as far as I know... the areas around logging isn't shut down. I know signs are usually put out saying active logging in area. It just nice if when your working you don't have guys firing rifles off around you. Nothing makes you nervous like gun shots ringing around you while your working in the bush.

As to the closed gate, if its crown land you can walk on it.

Kirby

[pupper]

BS, you can hunt fsr roads if there is logging near by.
If you werent allowed, the only hunting in BC would be private land.

If there is a gate, take a mountain bike past it. They dont own the land just the rights to the timber.

[bensonvalley]

[quote=pupper;200281]BS, you can hunt fsr roads if there is logging near by.
If you werent allowed, the only hunting in BC would be private land.

While that may be technically correct.....I would like to think the hunters on this site would exercise the required cautions and not hunt in the immediate area of active logging. It's been my experience the loggers and road builders only put up those signs in their immediate area. They're only doing their job, find another area....it's not worth the risk of injuring someone.

[bigwhiteys]

It's been my experience the loggers and road builders only put up those signs in their immediate area. They're only doing their job, find another area....it's not worth the risk of injuring someone.

Mine too... Usually they are working pretty close... Sometimes they tend to leave the signs up long after they are done working in the specific block... Use due diligence.

Carl

[sealevel]

I am sure they can block off an active spur road. For your safety and for the piece of mind for the workers you should stay away.

[7mmWSM]

Interesting question because we just ran into this situation...a valley in which we have a cabin has an FSR that goes through it, at about the halfway point (no problem with acess to the cabins) they have gated the road in a big way because they have an inactive logging camp. So no half the valley is no access. We phoned cattermole, the company operating the area, and they said no problem we will give you a key. When we got to the gate midnight last Thursday the key wouldn't work!! So now we are wondering whether the company is BSing and buying time or what. They will be getting a phone call at any rate. Don't mean to hijack the thread but from what I understand you can't (and probably shoudn't) hunt in active logging areas, but every resident has a right to be on crown land and NOT BE DENIED ACESS TO IT (ie gates etc.). This is one of our most cherished rights is it not?

[elkdom]

Last week I was going to scout some private land I have permission to hunt, I meet a pick up crew cab 2 guys, fuel tank in back, they stop on this public numbered road and wave me down, so I stop and they ask where im going, i asked are you guys cops or CO s under cover or what? then one guy says oh were loggers , were logging on Smitts land ,I says so what Im goin to scout deer on Jones land whats it to you? then the guy in the crew cab says well its against the law to hunt within 2 miles of active logging! So I says to the guys in the crew cab, my law book says its against my law to LOG within 2 miles of a guy thats hunting! They both gave me the DUMMEST look I have ever seen on a human beings' face! I said I'll be seeing YA and drove away!

[hunter1947]

It's up to the hunter to give lee way to loggers when it is active in the area. You just have to use your comon scence ,would you like to have hunters around if you were working in the area ,no.

[dana]

It is in your best interests and saftey to stay away from active logging. It is amazing how many yahoos don't have a flippin brain when it comes to hunting around logging. I'm surprised more morons don't get killed. I don't know how many times I've heard truckers cussing on the radio about a quad or quads that they have almost run over. Active logging roads are radio controlled. If you venture on them without a radio, you are putting your life at risk. The same goes with active logging shows. You drive past the signs you could have a tree fell on you and your vehicle. You could encounter blast rock that will take your head off. You could get run over by a machine. Radios are for communication. If no one knows you are there, there is a good chance of a accident happening. Another thing is you get in on the road and you think it is your right to drive through, well the road might have active processing going on and you might not only have to wait a long time, but you'll have a bunch of loggers pissed that you are messing with the days production as they try to clear a path for you. It truly amazes me that hunters think it is their right to do and go where ever they please. It doesn't take much of a brain cell to realize that the road hunting may not be very good when you have over a 100 loads a day coming off one road system, but time and time again, quad after quad decide that that is where they are going to road hunt. The funny thing is, there is normally a ton of non-active roads in the area but you can't argue with stupidity can ya?

[RMG]

I have worked for many years in the forest industry as in every aspect of woodland operations. There is no law that says you are not allowed to hunt near active logging. I do not, never have never will, doesnt matter how big the trophy. Its just not worth risking any shot. Out of respect, and courtesy. You never know where the workers are, they don't always wear their hi-vis. Dont risk it. But if you do, be prepared to deal with some PO'd loggers, and I for one would not blame them one bit.

[KodiakHntr]

Let me put it plain and simple. FSR are Forest Service Roads. Means they are owned by the public. Meaning you. Meaning accessible to anyone who is a BC resident. Paid for with stumpage dollars. Who owns the trees, BC residents.

If it is marked at the start of the road as a FSR it means that road is accessible to all. However, not all bush roads are FSR's. Some forest companies do own some bush roads. Which means they have not been given to the crown yet, or paid for through stumpage dollars yet. Regardless, as long as it is crown land, you are allowed access.

However, some companies can gate some roads, usually due to vandalism or other reason. If you bitch, you can get a key usually. But you may have to go through the Forest Service to get one. Legally you can't be denied access. (Although some Forest Service employees may give you a runaround, as well as some forestry companies.)

While dana does have a point, that doesn't stop the fact that you have as much right to a FSR as anyone else, logger or otherwise. Very few logging roads are "radio controlled" (at least in the interior and the north, the coast may be different) in that, if you don't have a radio, you have to sign in at a check point for your safety, or be escorted by a radio controlled vehicle (these will be realllly clearly marked as such), usually these are mine roads. ALL active logging roads are "radio accessible" or "radio supervised", meaning that you really should have a radio with the appropriate frequencies on it for your safety so you don't end up under a logging truck or tree.

But common courtesay says, maybe smarter to find someplace else for the day.

[Tarp Man]

Common courtesy? Try not wanting to get pasted to the front of a Kenworth! Getting keys can be a hastle, but it is worth it in order to get behind some of these locked gates. It usually means you will be alone and when you get out of your vehicle, it will not be readily available to riff raff to root through or burn.

[dana]

I can tell ya most mainhaul roads in this area are indeed Radio Controlled and are clearly marked as such at the POC where the sign states the road name and the radio frequency to be used and the calling procedures (up or down, empty or loaded). If you don't have a radio, you are asked to proceed with extreme caution with headlights on or follow behind a radio controlled vehicle. It is a common practice when a non-radio controlled vehicle is encountered by a radio controlled vehicle, the radio controlled vehicle will call 'pickup truck with no radio' to let the others know where you are. Even though a trucker might have a good guess idea where you are, you don't know where they are, and it is very risky on the hunter's part, as they normally have their eyes on the bush and not the road. And don't be thinking a loaded logging truck is going to take the ditch. It will be you. And don't be thinking that everyone who drives past you stuck in the snow will be willing to give ya a hand to get ya out. Most are working, not playing like you, and their time is money.

[Sharkey]

I've been hunting up many FSR's that have had no signs posted that they are active logging roads, and have run across active logging sites. They're not always marked.
~D

[Mauser98]

Actually, FSR's aren't public roads. They are owned by the Forest Service and can be closed(gated) at the discretion and permission of the District Manager.

If there's any log hauling or other industrial activity on any industrial road(FSR or not), it's not a a good idea to try your luck with the big guys.

[okanagan hiker]

I don't drive them or use ATV's... I only walk the FSR's ( I park at the beginning of the roads )... but as I said this gentleman told me that even walking a gated and locked FSR was not allowed... I don't believe that, but am looking here for confirmation.

I don't want to hunt where there is actual active logging... dangerous for me and them, noisy, etc... but I might want to walk thru the active areas.

Am I correct... there is no mention in the Synopsis about logging?

[boxhitch]

. I don't believe that, but am looking here for confirmation.


Am I correct... there is no mention in the Synopsis about logging?
Looking here, for the definitive answer, is a mistake.
The rules and laws you are looking for may best be searched out at the local MOF or MOE office. Such things as the Forestry act, the trespass act etc may apply.

[Steeleco]

I for one don't like hunting near active cutting and hauling, too much commotion anyhow. I do like peaking to see what the good loggers are leaving me for future cut blocks!!

[KodiakHntr]

Actually, FSR's aren't public roads. They are owned by the Forest Service and can be closed(gated) at the discretion and permission of the District Manager.




Nope, they aren't. They aren't owned by the Forest Service. The FS is an agent of the public.

However, they can be closed at the discretion of the DM. But, you can still get access if you make enough noise.

[Fisher-Dude]

Forest Service Roads are NOT public roads. Government has not gazetted the roads, and does NOT maintain them - the operators of industry (forest companies, etc) are responsible for maintenance.


Forest and Range Practices Act:

Non-industrial use of a road 22.2
(2)
The (a)district manager, for a forest service road, or (b)holder of a road permit or a woodlot licence, for a road under the permit or licence, may take action under subsection (3) if (c)use of the road under subsection (1) would likely (i)cause significant damage to the road, (ii)cause significant sediment delivery, or (iii)endanger property, public health or public safety, or (d)the presence on the road of a vehicle or animal would likely cause damage to the road or environment or endanger life or property.
(3)
In the circumstances described in subsection (2), (a)the district manager, for a forest service road, may (i)close the road or restrict its use, or (ii)remove a vehicle or an animal from the road at the expense of the owner of the vehicle or animal, and (b)the holder of a road permit or a woodlot licence, for a road under the permit or licence, (i)with the prior consent of the minister, may close the road or restrict its use, or (ii)may remove a vehicle or an animal from the road at the expense of the owner of the vehicle or animal.

[Wildman]

BS, you can hunt fsr roads if there is logging near by.
If you werent allowed, the only hunting in BC would be private land.

If there is a gate, take a mountain bike past it. They dont own the land just the rights to the timber.


I think if you were to let bullets fly in an area that myself or my guys were working in I would be pissed.....Active Logging means that there are guys around working. We take the signs down when we are not working. I.e. Sundays.

[Wildman]

Forest Service Roads are NOT public roads. Government has not gazetted the roads, and does NOT maintain them - the operators of industry (forest companies, etc) are responsible for maintenance.


Forest and Range Practices Act:

Non-industrial use of a road 22.2
(2)
The (a)district manager, for a forest service road, or (b)holder of a road permit or a woodlot licence, for a road under the permit or licence, may take action under subsection (3) if (c)use of the road under subsection (1) would likely (i)cause significant damage to the road, (ii)cause significant sediment delivery, or (iii)endanger property, public health or public safety, or (d)the presence on the road of a vehicle or animal would likely cause damage to the road or environment or endanger life or property.
(3)
In the circumstances described in subsection (2), (a)the district manager, for a forest service road, may (i)close the road or restrict its use, or (ii)remove a vehicle or an animal from the road at the expense of the owner of the vehicle or animal, and (b)the holder of a road permit or a woodlot licence, for a road under the permit or licence, (i)with the prior consent of the minister, may close the road or restrict its use, or (ii)may remove a vehicle or an animal from the road at the expense of the owner of the vehicle or animal.


Correct, hence the gate.

[Wildman]

It is in your best interests and saftey to stay away from active logging. It is amazing how many yahoos don't have a flippin brain when it comes to hunting around logging. I'm surprised more morons don't get killed. I don't know how many times I've heard truckers cussing on the radio about a quad or quads that they have almost run over. Active logging roads are radio controlled. If you venture on them without a radio, you are putting your life at risk. The same goes with active logging shows. You drive past the signs you could have a tree fell on you and your vehicle. You could encounter blast rock that will take your head off. You could get run over by a machine. Radios are for communication. If no one knows you are there, there is a good chance of a accident happening. Another thing is you get in on the road and you think it is your right to drive through, well the road might have active processing going on and you might not only have to wait a long time, but you'll have a bunch of loggers pissed that you are messing with the days production as they try to clear a path for you. It truly amazes me that hunters think it is their right to do and go where ever they please. It doesn't take much of a brain cell to realize that the road hunting may not be very good when you have over a 100 loads a day coming off one road system, but time and time again, quad after quad decide that that is where they are going to road hunt. The funny thing is, there is normally a ton of non-active roads in the area but you can't argue with stupidity can ya?


Bang on Dana.

[Fisher-Dude]

Now, having said all this...the deer and moose sure like snacking on the lichens of freshly felled timber. 8-)

[Mauser98]

Pile on!!!!!:D

From the Forest and Range practices Act


Not a public highway

24 Despite section 42 of the Transportation Act, a road constructed or maintained under this Act, the Forest Act, the former Act as defined in section 1 of the Forest Act or the Forest Practices Code of British Columbia Act is not a public highway unless the Lieutenant Governor in Council declares it to be by an order in council that he or she may make under this Act.

[Steeleco]

Active Logging means that there are guys around working. We take the signs down when we are not working. I.e. Sundays.

But like all humans, different folk have different standards. I was just in an area this past Thursday and then again on Sunday. The activity was obvious on Thurs, so I went elsewhere. On Sunday (sign's still up) I went all the way back in and found the area they're working. Nobody home!!! I actually wanted past the work site by quite a few clicks, but they were good enough to block the road with timber :shock::shock: Like I said before, the guys are making me some new hunting spots, I'll be back!!!

[okanagan hiker]

Wildman, you said...

"I think if you were to let bullets fly in an area that myself or my guys were working in I would be pissed.....Active Logging means that there are guys around working"

I completely understand... may I ask what is considered as safe distance? Are there any reg's? My personal buffer zone is at least 1 KM further up the road from the logging.

Also, as I said, I don't drive the FSR's I walk them... and am cautious about blasting ( I look for notices, and ask anyone working there that I see ).

[Will]

With the Millions of FSR's in BC to choose from why would anyone want to Hunt on one that is "in use" ? :?

Go somewhere else......problem solved:wink:

[Fisher-Dude]

Go somewhere else......problem solved:wink:

Will
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lurking behind a bush...in Reg 3
Posts: 1,877


Hiker, it ain't safe anywhere in Region 3 either. Be safe out there.


http://sp1.mm-a3.yimg.com/image/2698034958 (http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fs earch%2Fimages%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dtimothy%2520treadwell%26fr2%3Dtab-web%26fr%3Dslv1-&w=240&h=315&imgurl=www.nndb.com%2Fpeople%2F893%2F000113554%2Ft imothy-treadwell-sm.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nndb.com%2Fpeople%2F893%2F00 0113554&size=19.5kB&name=timothy-treadwell-sm.jpg&p=timothy+treadwell&type=jpeg&no=13&tt=390&oid=33d717367188526c&ei=UTF-8)

[pupper]

I think if you were to let bullets fly in an area that myself or my guys were working in I would be pissed.....Active Logging means that there are guys around working. We take the signs down when we are not working. I.e. Sundays.

Im not saying to go in an active cut block and set up a tree stand or start firing.

I am saying if there is logging in an area where you are hunting that does not mean that you cannot hunt in that area.
Stay away from the machines and equipment obviously, but just becuase there is logging does not mean the entire forest is shut down.
Gates are also thrown up a little to hastily in my opinion.

I dont go down roads where a logging show is set up, that is just rediculous and counterproductive.

[okanagan hiker]

Will...

It isn't so much that I want to "hunt" where there is active logging... I want to get further thru to the other side.

I live in the Lower mainland ( an issue in itself ) and have limited distances I can travel, and have found an area I like... now I just want to sort out the logging issue. ( as well as determining which is Crown and which is Private land... not always easy )

Also, I am trying to find any reg's surrounding hunting/logging ( ie: distances, etc. ) Safety concerns aside ( and I try to be safe ), I don't want to bust any regulations.

[MichelD]

Pupper pretty well said it all.

If they are actively falling, they put up signs saying "Caution falling" , if they are yarding right to the road you are on, you might not be able to get by anyway, what with stacking and truck loading, but if the landing is big enough, you can just drive by and keep going. I've never seen any regs about it, just go far enough away so you know you won't be shooting in that direction.

If it is up a dead end side spur, turn around and go elsewhere.

[Will]

Will...

It isn't so much that I want to "hunt" where there is active logging... I want to get further thru to the other side.
No justification needed......especially to me ! ;-)

There are NO regulations prohibiting hunting in these areas so it's kinda a common sense approach I guess. I'd still Find somewhere else...problem solved :smile:

It actually happened near Logan Lake about a Month back...seems 2 fellas were "working" in the bush when a couple "Hunters?" shot towards them with a shotgun, trying for a grouse Or ???...apparently they took cover until the dummies were through. Cops are still trying to locate these individuals for questioning....very likely they never even knew these workers were there ? :redface:


Personnally I'd steer clear of any "Active" areas.......why risk injury to yourself or worse, someone else ? :|

[Will]

http://sp1.mm-a3.yimg.com/image/2698034958 (http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fs earch%2Fimages%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dtimothy%2520treadwell%26fr2%3Dtab-web%26fr%3Dslv1-&w=240&h=315&imgurl=www.nndb.com%2Fpeople%2F893%2F000113554%2Ft imothy-treadwell-sm.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nndb.com%2Fpeople%2F893%2F00 0113554&size=19.5kB&name=timothy-treadwell-sm.jpg&p=timothy+treadwell&type=jpeg&no=13&tt=390&oid=33d717367188526c&ei=UTF-8)
Dam that guy looks familiar.........I've seen him somewhere before ?

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Oh yes I remember now.....:redface:
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http://usera.imagecave.com/BCWILL/IMG_0325.JPG

[Wildman]

Im not saying to go in an active cut block and set up a tree stand or start firing.

I am saying if there is logging in an area where you are hunting that does not mean that you cannot hunt in that area.
Stay away from the machines and equipment obviously, but just becuase there is logging does not mean the entire forest is shut down.
Gates are also thrown up a little to hastily in my opinion.

I dont go down roads where a logging show is set up, that is just rediculous and counterproductive.

I do not agree with you about the gates. We put gates up to protect people and our property. I've known companies that have had tens of thousands of dollars in equiptment damaged due to vanadalism. Whole machines burnt to the ground, there have been entire licenses burnt up, all of the timber lost ect..... Most people are responsible but it just takes a few ignorant people to do such a thing. We deny access to areas because we don't want people to get hurt or our equiptment to get damaged or worse......anti's sabatauging equiptment which could end up hurting one of us or worse.......it happens.
No it doesn't mean the entire forest is shut down, you can go to a different area. The safest thing for you to do is stay out of that area, well out......there is active hauling that goes along with logging, meaning the area that is being used isn't just a small 40 Ha area. It includes a whole valley, an entire drainage area. Firing a rifle off could hit a truck?! Sure it doesn't mean you cannot hunt....its kind of the same reason that one shouldn't follow a hunter into an area if he/she were there first. Move on, come back when they are done.

[Wildman]

Wildman, you said...

"I think if you were to let bullets fly in an area that myself or my guys were working in I would be pissed.....Active Logging means that there are guys around working"

I completely understand... may I ask what is considered as safe distance? Are there any reg's? My personal buffer zone is at least 1 KM further up the road from the logging.

Also, as I said, I don't drive the FSR's I walk them... and am cautious about blasting ( I look for notices, and ask anyone working there that I see ).

See my post above.

[hunter1947]

This tread stinks ,let's face it if there is logging going on ,you just avoid the area ,it is as simple as that.:roll:.

[Will]

This tread stinks
Well given the previous replies (Treadwell pics) you're either guilty of misspelling........or you're simply a Genius :-P

"This tread stinks"
Thanks for the Laugh ! Accidentally or not :lol::lol::lol:

[KodiakHntr]

Forest Service Roads are NOT public roads. Government has not gazetted the roads, and does NOT maintain them - the operators of industry (forest companies, etc) are responsible for maintenance.


Forest and Range Practices Act:

Non-industrial use of a road 22.2
(2)
The (a)district manager, for a forest service road, or (b)holder of a road permit or a woodlot licence, for a road under the permit or licence, may take action under subsection (3) if (c)use of the road under subsection (1) would likely (i)cause significant damage to the road, (ii)cause significant sediment delivery, or (iii)endanger property, public health or public safety, or (d)the presence on the road of a vehicle or animal would likely cause damage to the road or environment or endanger life or property.
(3)
In the circumstances described in subsection (2), (a)the district manager, for a forest service road, may (i)close the road or restrict its use, or (ii)remove a vehicle or an animal from the road at the expense of the owner of the vehicle or animal, and (b)the holder of a road permit or a woodlot licence, for a road under the permit or licence, (i)with the prior consent of the minister, may close the road or restrict its use, or (ii)may remove a vehicle or an animal from the road at the expense of the owner of the vehicle or animal.

Sec 3 (b), are not FSR's. Road permit roads aren't FSR's.

Not sure what you mean by "maintained". A lot of FSR's are deactivated to varying degrees, which is a form of "maintenance".

And when an FSR is maintained (by which I'm assuming you mean graded, etc) by a licensee, it is accounted for by stumpage allowances, or road use agreements. FSR's are by definition, Forest Service Roads. Meaning the Forest Service holds title to that road. Meaning the PUBLIC owns that road, regardless of whether a licencee is using it at that time, or at any time in the future.

[pupper]

I do not agree with you about the gates. We put gates up to protect people and our property. I've known companies that have had tens of thousands of dollars in equiptment damaged due to vanadalism. Whole machines burnt to the ground, there have been entire licenses burnt up, all of the timber lost ect..... Most people are responsible but it just takes a few ignorant people to do such a thing. We deny access to areas because we don't want people to get hurt or our equiptment to get damaged or worse......anti's sabatauging equiptment which could end up hurting one of us or worse.......it happens.
No it doesn't mean the entire forest is shut down, you can go to a different area. The safest thing for you to do is stay out of that area, well out......there is active hauling that goes along with logging, meaning the area that is being used isn't just a small 40 Ha area. It includes a whole valley, an entire drainage area. Firing a rifle off could hit a truck?! Sure it doesn't mean you cannot hunt....its kind of the same reason that one shouldn't follow a hunter into an area if he/she were there first. Move on, come back when they are done.

There are alot of gates set up where there is no active logging.

If you are a responsible hunter you can go beyond on foot or bike. Were not talking about vandalizing behind gates, we are talking about hunting.

Read "backcountry bowhunting" by cameron hanes, he takes his mountain bike past gates in oregon and washington in search of blacktails and elk.

I also recall a post on here where a certain someone was giving the gate keys to a mr. Jim Shockey.
WHy in the hell would they endanger Jim Shockey by letting him hunt behind the gates???

[dana]

There are several reasons why roads might be gated. Many times the licencee has done so for the benefit of wildlife. Unless there are signs posted that state you can't trespass beyond the gate, you are free to walk or ride your bike or ride a horse. A lot of gates are just to give the wildlife a break from getting pounded by road hunters. The MOE is typically the one that requests the licencee put the gate up. Another reason maybe that it is a Community Watershed. Gates restrict access into the watershed so that the Community won't have to worry about polution into their water or worse yet, an act of vandelism or terrorism. Think about it, would you want every Joe Blow pissing in your water?????

[Fisher-Dude]

Unless there are signs posted that state you can't trespass beyond the gate, you are free to walk or ride your bike or ride a horse.

Or ride your quad if there is no legislated vehicular closure. Or take your dirt bike under the gate. Or drive your truck if you are buddies with the loggers and can get a key to the gate.

Straight from the CO, you won't be ticketed for riding/driving the roads behind the gate if there is no legislated closure.

[Wildman]

There are alot of gates set up where there is no active logging.

If you are a responsible hunter you can go beyond on foot or bike. Were not talking about vandalizing behind gates, we are talking about hunting.

Read "backcountry bowhunting" by cameron hanes, he takes his mountain bike past gates in oregon and washington in search of blacktails and elk.

I also recall a post on here where a certain someone was giving the gate keys to a mr. Jim Shockey.
WHy in the hell would they endanger Jim Shockey by letting him hunt behind the gates???

I'm just telling you why we have gates, you said that you think they are thrown up too fast.

The area he went into was not active at the time........there is also a camp and shop behind that gate, I trusted him with that key because I know one of his guides.

[TIKA 300]

IF THERE is no public access to these areas,why do some have a guard set at the gate.There were 2 incidents north of Mission which were gated but had people there monitoring the situation.I asked in Jan 07 for a key to a gate up Nahatlatch from a large logging company in the Wack. The gentleman told me that the road was deactivated,which i promptly told him he was a liar,cuz there had been a forest fire in the area and the road re-opened (we were there to check it out,but the gate was still locked)thats when the back pedaling started (BUSTED) I also have friends that worked for Inter For,he was a care taker of 1 camp, and his wife often looked after other areas when there were small logging shows happening.My point being that ACCESS was never cut off @ these areas THATS LIKE TELLING A FISHERMAN THAT THE LAKE IS WET SO YOU CANT FISH IT !!!!!! TK

[sealevel]

Unless we can stop the theft and vandelisom there is going to be more gates. Wood lot operators are now being given permits to put up gate. How many times do you have to have your fuel tanks drained . Tools stolen . log decks cut up for firewood i have even had my saw shot. The profit margins are not there anymore to obsorbe that. So whats the ansur ???gates. I have heard on here hunters don`t do that!! bull ...it is many times worse during hunting season.

[Fisher-Dude]

Sec 3 (b), are not FSR's. Road permit roads aren't FSR's.

They can be FSRs. Having a road permit just means that you are allowed to haul on that road, and it lays down the maintenace or fees you pay to use that road.

Not sure what you mean by "maintained". A lot of FSR's are deactivated to varying degrees, which is a form of "maintenance".

The licensee is responsible for the costs of deactivation, not the Forest Service.

And when an FSR is maintained (by which I'm assuming you mean graded, etc) by a licensee, it is accounted for by stumpage allowances, or road use agreements. FSR's are by definition, Forest Service Roads. Meaning the Forest Service holds title to that road. Meaning the PUBLIC owns that road, regardless of whether a licencee is using it at that time, or at any time in the future.

Under the Highways Act, certain roads are "gazetted", which means the Ministry is responsible for plowing, grading, ditching, etc. Those are public roads by definition under the Act, and are treated the same as the paved road in front of your house.

FSR's are NOT public roads by definition, as the Ministry doesn't pay for their maintenance, the licensee does, despite their being on crown land. As Mauser posted from the FRP Act:

Not a public highway

24 Despite section 42 of the Transportation Act, a road constructed or maintained under this Act, the Forest Act, the former Act as defined in section 1 of the Forest Act or the Forest Practices Code of British Columbia Act is not a public highway unless the Lieutenant Governor in Council declares it to be by an order in council that he or she may make under this Act.



I think there is confusion about the definition of "public".

[wetcoasthunter]

Have the logging companies ever considered taking steps to try and midigate the damage an a**hole vandal can do. Like window covers, lockable containers for the saws, tools, etc.

I personally have never seen these things when I have come accross logging equipment, I have seen all sorts of tools and equipment just laying about on the job site.

When working in town here we do just that, cover the windows, lock up the tools, put locks on the hatches to the engines and fuel tanks. Doesn't take much. Most vandals are lazy and won't work too hard to do their damage.

Just a thought.

[TIKA 300]

Unless we can stop the theft and vandelisom there is going to be more gates. Wood lot operators are now being given permits to put up gate. How many times do you have to have your fuel tanks drained . Tools stolen . log decks cut up for firewood i have even had my saw shot. The profit margins are not there anymore to obsorbe that. So whats the ansur ???gates. I have heard on here hunters don`t do that!! bull ...it is many times worse during hunting season.
I WORK IN CONSTRUCTON,SO COMMON SENSE SAYS TO ME IF I LEAVE $40,000 WORTH OF TOOLS LAYING AROUND WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN ???????? DO THE MATH !!!!!! THE GATE UP NORRISH CREEK IS AT THE PAVEMENT,WHICH CUTS AAAAALLLLL ACCESS.IF ITS TO BE GATED DO IT WHERE THEIR LOGGING.NOT ALL OF US ARE CROOKS AND THIEVES TK

[bensonvalley]

Normally I'd let this pass but you're implying that the forest officials and loggers are lacking common sense....in fact they're not. These aren't, for the most part, small hand tools that have been stolen, they are whole shop trucks stolen, tidy tanks of fuel (every month it seems), first-aid supplies.....and often partial decks of logs. In a lot of operations these are objects and vehicles that aren't meant to be driven back to town each night.
So yeah, all things put into consideration, gates are the most logical and practicable solution and will live on for a long time.

[TIKA 300]

That is where common sense comes into play. Do you think that road builders leave their powder unattended NO !!! ITS PUT IN A SHACK. (yes i seen 1 of Can Fors powder shacks in the middle of no where )I have logger friends and have been on landigs where 4 or 5 saws are left laying What i am saying is they know it will happen so do some preventitive maintenance.I dont disagree with gates but use common sense on where they go. Any Heli show ive seen,the pilots and support staff STAY with their machine,so whats the diffrence between a heli and $1,000,000 worth of equipment Its bad enough we need a quad now to access roads that are deactivated (which i cant afford) let alone have the whole area shut down.TK

[KodiakHntr]

I think there is confusion about the definition of "public".

I think you are right...And I'm thinking you are the one that is confused. lol.

By Road Permit Road, I'm not talking about a road that has a road use agreement or "permit" on it, I mean a road that has a permit to be built. And I'll have to check my files, but I'm pretty sure that the last road permit road that I signed wasn't a FSR.

FSR's are held by the gov't. The "Forest Service" if you will, which is a public agency. Mandated by the "public".

And I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the whole gazetted issue. Some FSR's are gazetted, the majority are not.

[Fisher-Dude]

FSR's are held by the gov't. The "Forest Service" if you will, which is a public agency. Mandated by the "public".

And I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the whole gazetted issue. Some FSR's are gazetted, the majority are not.

No FSRs are gazetted. If they are gazetted, they become public highways and cease to exist as FSRs. Read your Highways Act.

[KodiakHntr]

No FSRs are gazetted. If they are gazetted, they become public highways and cease to exist as FSRs. Read your Highways Act.


Again, showing that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Manson Creek FSR. Thutade FSR. To name two of at least 6 I am aware of in my immediate area.

[Fisher-Dude]

Again, showing that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Manson Creek FSR. Thutade FSR. To name two of at least 6 I am aware of in my immediate area.

And the MoH salts, sands and plows them all winter, and grades them in the summer, and replaces the culverts, and brushes the sightlines? I don't think so! Post some legislation that proves your point...Mauser and I have posted legislation that proves ours.

[KodiakHntr]

Actually, with those particular roads the MoH contracts the MoF to do the snow plowing, grading, culverts, and actually, as we speak the sightlines are being brushed.

I'm sure the residents of Germansen Landing and Fort St. James could attest to this, oh wait, I can too. I work out there, in the industry.

I'd thought that maybe you were a Forester of some description as you were quoting FRPA, but apparently not. So sufficit to say, I'm getting tired of arguing with you when you evidently don't know what you are talking about, and don't want to admit that maybe someone else could be right.

[KodiakHntr]

And one more thing, before I drop this thread. You say that you have posted legislation that proves your point. What point do you think you have proved? The only thing that I can see that you have proved is that a FSR isn't a gazetted public numbered highway. Which I wasn't aware was part of the discussion in the first place.

The only legislation that you actually posted is that the DM at the MoF can restrict access to limit "damage to the road or environment or endanger life or property." This doesn't stop access by members of the public, it only restricts the type of access until the hazard is abated.