Spotting scopes

[dru88]

Hey guys I am looking for some reviews on some half decent spotting scopes. I know everyone will say get the best you can afford. My budget is topping out at around $700. I have seen some good reviews of a company named Celestron does anyone have any experience with this brand or other brands that are a little more in my price range.
Looking forward to any reviews of any decent spotters.

[islandhunter]

You can find used vortex razors for around $1200, there was even 1 for $800 a few weeks ago. Well worth the extra bucks! Used Bushnell elites can be found for around $400, they are pretty damn good too!

[walker1985]

Not sure the quality of glass on the Celestron but i'm pretty sure they've been making telescopes since the 1950's

[goatdancer]

Can't vouch for the scopes but the older binos are awesome. The ones I have were made in Japan. Check to see where the scopes are made.

[decker9]

Ime, Pentax is a huge runner in the spotting scopes, mid level price with next to high end optic quality. I sit mine beside my Swarovski and can’t notice much difference at all.

Not to long ago there was a used pentax here in the classifieds for not much more then your budget. For reference, I paid $600 for mine used years ago.

[mwalter]

Yep pentax. 15-60x45 ed glass

works well in everyway one little issue early on and warrenty tightened it up and shipped it back before season started

owned for ten years now

[twoSevenO]

You can find used vortex razors for around $1200, there was even 1 for $800 a few weeks ago. Well worth the extra bucks! Used Bushnell elites can be found for around $400, they are pretty damn good too!

Where?
From what I can tell people routinely list Razors for sale used and ask more money than I paid for mine brand new!!

For $700 I'd look into a used Vortex Viper if you dont mind waiting for one to pop up.

[islandhunter]

^^ gunnutz
there's one on there right now for $1100

[twoSevenO]

^^ gunnutz
there's one on there right now for $1100

Post the link. I checked gunnuts like 5 times today

[IslandWanderer]

I'd look for a used razor. I bought a used 20-60x85 and it's impressive for the price. Never actually used it hunting yet though.

[islandhunter]

Post the link. I checked gunnuts like 5 times today
Try some manners?
now you'll have find it yourself
Here's some help......search optics exchange "Razor spotting"

[digger dogger]

Bushpilot, was selling an awesome Pentax Ed 65 i think it was. Back in December.
I’d buy it but I have a good spotter already.

[Arctic Lake]

I have the Pentax 65 I think it’s great ! The bird watching community gives it good reviews .
Arctic Lake

[rolllingbreakdown]

So whats the difference between a bird watching spotting scope and one for hunting?

[twoSevenO]

So whats the difference between a bird watching spotting scope and one for hunting?

nothing, other than that bird watchers aren't hiking into remote areas with 50lbs of other gear, so the weight for them is not as much of a concern.

[todbartell]

try to find a used Vortex Viper for $700 budget

[Ride Red]

I’m using a Razor HD 16-48x65. Been a great unit so far. Did use their warranty as my eyepiece had a small black dot in it and they sent me a new one. Great warranty and quick too. There are deals out there, just need to be ready to jump on it when they arise.

[Weatherby Fan]

try to find a used Vortex Viper for $700 budget

This as above or save a little longer and get a Vortex Razor, both have pretty good glass I just find the Razor more user friendly and a bit more compact

[whitlers]

I’m using a Razor HD 16-48x65. Been a great unit so far. Did use their warranty as my eyepiece had a small black dot in it and they sent me a new one. Great warranty and quick too. There are deals out there, just need to be ready to jump on it when they arise.

Haha this seems to be typical of Vortex glass. I sent a rifle scope back and my partner a Razor spotter and a pair of Razor binos with the same black dot. Their QC is crap.

That being said if you can find one without a black dot you should be fine haha.

[dru88]

So it sounds like doing a little more penny pinching and looking for a used model is my best option.
thanks for all your replies.

[Krico]

So whats the difference between a bird watching spotting scope and one for hunting?


nothing, other than that bird watchers aren't hiking into remote areas with 50lbs of other gear, so the weight for them is not as much of a concern.

also bird watching spotting scopes tend not to have blood smears and animal hair on them.

[IslandWanderer]

also bird watching spotting scopes tend not to have blood smears and animal hair on them.

True, and I suspect they value true (accurate?) colors a bit more when looking at birds/feathers.

[wallz]

There is a vortex viper on gunpost. ca right now for 850

https://www.gunpost.ca/optics/spotting-scopes/edmonton/vortex-viper-hd

[Ride Red]

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2109288-Vortex-Razor-16-48x-65mm-Straight-Body

[horseman2]

The intended use of a spotting scope is often a variable that does not dictate the level of quality required.
The hunter sitting behind the eyepiece for a considerable period of time will have different requirements than the shooter at a range taking five second glances at his target.
A hunter going on a fly-in told me of his decision to buy a $2500 Swarovski due to the eye strain caused by inferior optics.
Same with binoculars if you are going to sit behind them for an extended period of time the eyestrain will be your best indicator.

[porthunter]

The intended use of a spotting scope is often a variable that does not dictate the level of quality required.
The hunter sitting behind the eyepiece for a considerable period of time will have different requirements than the shooter at a range taking five second glances at his target.
A hunter going on a fly-in told me of his decision to buy a $2500 Swarovski due to the eye strain caused by inferior optics.
Same with binoculars if you are going to sit behind them for an extended period of time the eyestrain will be your best indicator.

THIS!!!!

My first ever backpack/fly in trip, I had Vortex Vipers, at the time, I had no understanding of eye strain. After spending an hour glassing, I quickly learned why spending money for good glass is key, the eye strain and headache was brutal.

After coming back, set a couple year plan to change over to all high end glass, now use Leica Geovids and a Swaro ATX spotter. Get 1 timmies coffee instead of 2 a day, pack a lunch with left overs, etc... its worth it to pony up the bucks for better glass if you're going to spend a substantial amount of time behind it.

[twoSevenO]

How exactly does a $2500 spotter reduce eye strain compared to $1500 one when most of the eye strain comes from having to look with one eye and keep one closed

[whitlers]

How exactly does a $2500 spotter reduce eye strain compared to $1500 one when most of the eye strain comes from having to look with one eye and keep one closed

Edge to edge clarity has something to do with it for sure. Your brain naturally wants to see a focused image. If you are darting back between a blurry edge and a clear center you will at some point create strain.
This is noticeable with both binos and spotters.

You are absolutely correct that one eye closed doesn't help when using spotters. I tend to lay my hat or a jacket over my other eye so I can keep both open. Takes some getting used to and honestly I don't know if it makes a difference.

I don't tent to spend a ton of time behind my the spotter. I prefer to pick country apart with binos on a tripod until I find something worth focusing in on.

[bighornbob]

Edge to edge clarity has something to do with it for sure. Your brain naturally wants to see a focused image. If you are darting back between a blurry edge and a clear center you will at some point create strain.
This is noticeable with both binos and spotters.

You are absolutely correct that one eye closed doesn't help when using spotters. I tend to lay my hat or a jacket over my other eye so I can keep both open. Takes some getting used to and honestly I don't know if it makes a difference.

I don't tent to spend a ton of time behind my the spotter. I prefer to pick country apart with binos on a tripod until I find something worth focusing in on.

Just like getting your legs and lungs in shape for sheep hunt, one cant expect your eyes to be any different. If you only look through a spotter 2 weeks out of the year and do it for hours on end those two weeks you will get eye strain and headaches.

BHB

[Ride Red]

Just like getting your legs and lungs in shape for sheep hunt, one cant expect your eyes to be any different. If you only look through a spotter 2 weeks out of the year and do it for hours on end those two weeks you will get eye strain and headaches.

BHB

^^^^^^^^ Bingo!!!

[stoneramhunter]

In regards to Spotting scopes go for ones that specifically target use for hunting They have tolerances that many bird or like styled scopes don't meet. I'm not talking about optics but more in reliability under extreme conditions. For example tolerances for wide ranges of temperature. Some spotting scopes use geared or screw adjustment for focus some use a belt which can be affected by sub zero temperatures and can fail. also some spotting scopes may not stand up to the abuse that can happen when up in the mountains. drop it once and its done. A used good quality spotting scope designed for hunting would imo be a better fit than a new one that's not designed for tough conditions and could have issues in reliability ruggedness etc, i spend most of my hunting going after sheep and have used the same spotting scope m=for many years swarovski. Some of my hunting buddies have zeis and leopold, and one that i was impressed with for the price( new under a 1000.00) was athlon Argos . . i had a hunter on a hunt who had a celstron it tipped over not hard but it was done the inner alignment was off and really useless after that. Kinda a like having a bad set of hunting boots ruins a trip. Of course that was over 10 years ago and the product may have improved reliability since then. in closing try to find a good used spotting scope that can handle the hunt. Look around you should be able to find a used one that fits the bill for close to the money you want to spend or if new is on your mind once again check out the Athlon Argos hd 20-60x85 good scope not pricey around 900 new i think

[wallz]

And with the above comments on strain and usage is why we get the "buy once, cry once" attitude. Save an extra year, don't buy as many coffee's, do what ever it takes to get the better optics. You will be happier in the end!

Most of these used lower end glass (vortex spotters) are from guys that bought and after a short time realize they need to spend more to get the better optics. Learn from them and buy once. It does truly last a life time.

I hear it all the time, I want to upgrade my optics because I should have spent more the first go around! You lucky to get 80% of your initial costs back selling a used optic.

[dru88]

Thanks guys the valuable information in this thread is going to help me out immensely. I would have never though about training my eye behind a spotting scope but makes perfect sense.

[wlbc]

Hey guys I am looking for some reviews on some half decent spotting scopes. I know everyone will say get the best you can afford. My budget is topping out at around $700. I have seen some good reviews of a company named Celestron does anyone have any experience with this brand or other brands that are a little more in my price range.
Looking forward to any reviews of any decent spotters.

Good evening OP,

Lots of good council here, I'll throw my two bits worth in too. I had a Celestron spotting scope, it was fine, especially at the range, at 100 yards, in broad daylight. The difference comes in across a valley, at last light, when you are planning the next mornings pre dawn stalk and you want to be sure that big boy is worth it. With a Leica, Zeiss, Swaro you can count the tines on a bull at low light with the Celestron, or Barska not so much. The Vortex stuff is okay until you look through one of those three. There are others but these will deliver.

I can't recall what I paid for mine but I do recall living with a Barska for two years until I plunked down the cash for my Leica. Same with bino's. I saved up for the same amount of time for my Swaro EL Range's - they are phenomenal.

If you really want to see that level of detail because your hunting is that important to you than save the money up and buy the good stuff.

BTW, the one poster who commented on less fatigue with the good stuff is absolutely right. Spend a day glassing slides for Grizzly with cheap glass and then good glass, you won't believe how different it is until you actually try it.

[leftfield]

Start with whatever you can afford and seems reasonable to you. You don't need a racecar when you're learning to drive..... hell you might find you just need a reasonable reliable car (optics lol)

[Weatherby Fan]

Thanks guys the valuable information in this thread is going to help me out immensely. I would have never though about training my eye behind a spotting scope but makes perfect sense.

Thus is true to a certain point, but good quality optics are just that, construction of the item, quality lenses, perfect alignment etc and thus reducing eye strain, same goes for binoculars, When I was younger I bought several pairs of cheap binos until finally a good friend insisted I buy a pair of Leica 10x42 Trinovid Binos, it hurt the wallet but not my eyes.....well I certainly knew the difference in a pair of binoculars that caused eye strain and ones that didn’t now !

The same applies to Spotting scopes.

[SBvias]

http://www.binocularscanada.com/products/productDetail.aspx?pid=70967BUNDLE

this pentax and eyepiece?

[twoSevenO]

I wonder how much here is the placebo effect of buying expensive optics. I can almost guarantee a lot of you dont have eyes good enough to pick apart tiny differences between a $3000 spotter and a $1500 one. :P

"I paid more, so I can see more".

If spending $3000+ on one is your desire, that as fine. It's your money. But I wish people would stop telling others that just because you spent $3000 everything less expensive is crap.

Some people have lots of hobbies. Not everyone can/wants to have top of the line of EVERYTHING.

[KodiakHntr]

I wonder how much here is the placebo effect of buying expensive optics. I can almost guarantee a lot of you dont have eyes good enough to pick apart tiny differences between a $3000 spotter and a $1500 one. :P

"I paid more, so I can see more".

If spending $3000+ on one is your desire, that as fine. It's your money. But I wish people would stop telling others that just because you spent $3000 everything less expensive is crap.

Some people have lots of hobbies. Not everyone can/wants to have top of the line of EVERYTHING.


Partially true perhaps. What do you use?



Here is something that not everyone on a forum will understand: everyone has an opinion on any given topic. But not all of those opinions have the same value. There is a big difference in value between the “I use this because it was the best I could afford and I read a lot of reviews and other guys in the same situation as me bought this so you should buy one too to validate my opinion” and the guys who are saying “Hey I tried one of these and one of these and one of these and one of these, and THIS one was a noticeable improvement over that and that and that in this situation and under these conditions”.

The value of good optics, for the guys who actually use them effectively and properly, doesn’t have a price. Good optics weigh nothing and cost nothing in comparison to their value on a hunt.
Now if you are a deer hunter who is happy with a spike muley every year, you probably don’t NEED a pair of EL’s and a Leica spotter.
If you are on a sheep hunt and time is a much more valuable commodity, then it is a lot easier to justify quality optics. For the guys that are serious about their time hunting anything, optics are easier to justify.

Just need to be honest with yourself about your level of commitment and your priorities in life.

[Arctic Lake]

I believe that is the one I bought last year and the price is less than what I paid . The scope is great for me but I have not used it yet to count tines from far away
Arctic Lake

Lake
http://www.binocularscanada.com/products/productDetail.aspx?pid=70967BUNDLE

this pentax and eyepiece?

[twoSevenO]

Partially true perhaps. What do you use?



Here is something that not everyone on a forum will understand: everyone has an opinion on any given topic. But not all of those opinions have the same value. There is a big difference in value between the “I use this because it was the best I could afford and I read a lot of reviews and other guys in the same situation as me bought this so you should buy one too to validate my opinion” and the guys who are saying “Hey I tried one of these and one of these and one of these and one of these, and THIS one was a noticeable improvement over that and that and that in this situation and under these conditions”.

The value of good optics, for the guys who actually use them effectively and properly, doesn’t have a price. Good optics weigh nothing and cost nothing in comparison to their value on a hunt.
Now if you are a deer hunter who is happy with a spike muley every year, you probably don’t NEED a pair of EL’s and a Leica spotter.
If you are on a sheep hunt and time is a much more valuable commodity, then it is a lot easier to justify quality optics. For the guys that are serious about their time hunting anything, optics are easier to justify.

Just need to be honest with yourself about your level of commitment and your priorities in life.

See, this is where you're wrong. If you really wanted the BEST, and optics trully "doesn't have a price" and "weigh nothing and cost nothing in comparison", you wouldn't be using the standard issue 65mm swarovski everyone else uses.
You'd be using the 95mm, with the dual-eye piece set up coming in at probably $6,000 or something crazy like that.

Why don't you see too many guys using that? well ... i assume even the most dedicated sheep hunters draw a line somewhere. Both as far as weight and as far as price.

Your level of committment has nothing to do with optics. Guys truly commited to a goal will get it done at any cost just like they did before carrying a spotting scope around was even a thing.
Many guys buy spotters that collect dust on the shelf.
Many guys hunt with inferior optics and still do well.
Many guys are commited as hell chasing animals in terrain where spotters aren't even used and are highly successful (whitetails, blacktails etc)

The fact of the matter is this: People see a lot of stuff they want. People have disposable income. People buy/upgrade things all the time. Trucks, houses, computers, phones, fashion items, whatever. Hunting gear is no different. If you see it, if you want it, if you can afford it you buy it!

To tell someone they neeeeeeeeed to save up for a year and skimp on things just to buy something they may not even use to its full potential is absurd. Go on a computer forum and guys will tell you how you neeeeeeeed to save for that $2000 monitor.



What do you use?

I use a Vortex Razor

[KodiakHntr]

I don't think you fully read my post. Or you didn't understand it, one or the other.

I don't have a 95 mm Swarovski because for me, I can't justify the cost increase for the performance upgrade over what I have now. Same reason that I don't have a $4500 Leica spotter. I know it is a little sharper than my 65mm Swarovski, because I have used one side by side with the mine. Same way I know that the Swarovski is noticeably better than a $700 Leupold or Bushnell, I have bought and compared them side by side, and the Leupold and Bushnell are sitting on a shelf in the garage someplace. I am sure as hell not telling anyone they need to buy top of the line anything, but I am also not telling them than a Swarovski is going to be comparable to a sub $1000 whatever, because it isn't. Not in every condition, but in some there may not be much difference.

I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not, but I'm going to assume that you aren't.
Some games are played most effectively with the correct equipment. Some equipment is noticeably better when you spend the money on it.
If you take a dedicated 25 year old who has one goal in life of say killing a grand slam, and he spends 7 days a week in the gym for 6 months prior to sheep season and arms himself with a 30/30 and a pair of gray sweats and a blue tarp and is prepared to eat blueberries and black flies he finds on the ground, he will not be as effective as the same kid with top shelf gear, proper nutrition, and the knowledge of how to use it. That first kid might get lucky and it won't rain or snow, and he might bump a ram at 25 yards on the first couple hours of walking in his Air Jordans that stands around long enough for him to be fully confident that ram is legal. OR, he might get rained on, be miserable, and not be effective and see a ram at 700 yards that is bedded and watching him slowly shiver to death.
That second kid might be under a siltarp, warm and dry in his puffy pants, sitting behind good glass watching that ram and formulating a plan to kill him.
But in both cases, that kid is out hunting to the best of his ability, with the gear he has, and no one can fault a guy for getting out there.
However, appropriate gear for the task at hand makes a difference, and in a lot of stuff it is a trade off on how much you are going to use it. Some of us actually use gear more than 5 days a year, and have bought different levels of equipment trying to find what works for us and what doesn't. Guys that have tried it all and settled on what they consider to be "good enough" have a better idea of what will actually work in most conditions.


The rest of your post simply reinforces my position (whether you realize it or not).
Some games require the right equipment to be effective. Some games can be played with minimal equipment, and you can still be successful. Nobody is saying that you need $7k worth of glass to hunt deer in the brush. I DO know that glass makes a hunter more effective in ALL situations. I know that $100 binoculars are better than no binoculars. I know that $600 binoculars are better than $100 binoculars. In optical quality, and reliability. Glass is one of the few things where cost is directly corelated to quality.
But I'm not saying that every hunter is going to know how to use glass properly, or effectively. And based on each individual hunters expectations for their overall hunting experience, it may not be important, or needed.
Glass is a personal decision based on commitment levels to the game, and life priorities. If you hunt 5 days a year by driving around on a side by side for chickens and your biggest sense of fulfillment comes from the atmosphere after the days hunt in camp and the companionship of your buddies, then you probably won't ever justify the expense of a $700 Leupold spotter.
If you are dedicated to being as effective as you possibly can so that you are seeing the most animals with the least amount of effort expended on sub par or sub legal animals, then good glass becomes a good expenditure of money. If your life priorities dictates that $700 is absolute maximum that you can spend on a spotter, then buy that $700 Leupold and learn how to use it to the maximum benefit that you can get out of it. But don't try to throw shade on the guy that spend the money on Alpha glass AND learned how to use that to the best of its ability. That guy makes a conscious decision that the money was worthwhile to him, and he will make a sacrifice someplace else to make up the difference.

Nobody is saying that spending more money will make you a better hunter, but spending good money after bad isn't a wise choice no matter what the situation.
And again, be honest with yourself and your expectations and realistic in your level of use, and make decisions accordingly. If your personal priority is hunting animals that require glassing, then decide what your personal comfort level is for spending, and then work towards that goal. If you don't achieve that goal in the time frame you are hoping and a hunt comes up, borrow whatever you can, and go hunt. More equipment won't make a person a better hunter, but it might make your hunt more enjoyable on a personal comfort level. And that might be the difference between success and failure.

If a guy is willing to hunt with gear that isn't as capable as other stuff on the market that costs more, there is nothing saying that he won't be successful. BUT, he might have to work harder, or be less comfortable doing it to get it done. Or he might get lucky. That's all. It's all a trade off. Either you trade dollars for equipment that make things easier, or you trade personal comfort and keep your dollars for other things and possibly work harder to kill stuff.

[porthunter]

I don't think you fully read my post. Or you didn't understand it, one or the other.

I don't have a 95 mm Swarovski because for me, I can't justify the cost increase for the performance upgrade over what I have now. Same reason that I don't have a $4500 Leica spotter. I know it is a little sharper than my 65mm Swarovski, because I have used one side by side with the mine. Same way I know that the Swarovski is noticeably better than a $700 Leupold or Bushnell, I have bought and compared them side by side, and the Leupold and Bushnell are sitting on a shelf in the garage someplace. I am sure as hell not telling anyone they need to buy top of the line anything, but I am also not telling them than a Swarovski is going to be comparable to a sub $1000 whatever, because it isn't. Not in every condition, but in some there may not be much difference.

I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not, but I'm going to assume that you aren't.
Some games are played most effectively with the correct equipment. Some equipment is noticeably better when you spend the money on it.
If you take a dedicated 25 year old who has one goal in life of say killing a grand slam, and he spends 7 days a week in the gym for 6 months prior to sheep season and arms himself with a 30/30 and a pair of gray sweats and a blue tarp and is prepared to eat blueberries and black flies he finds on the ground, he will not be as effective as the same kid with top shelf gear, proper nutrition, and the knowledge of how to use it. That first kid might get lucky and it won't rain or snow, and he might bump a ram at 25 yards on the first couple hours of walking in his Air Jordans that stands around long enough for him to be fully confident that ram is legal. OR, he might get rained on, be miserable, and not be effective and see a ram at 700 yards that is bedded and watching him slowly shiver to death.
That second kid might be under a siltarp, warm and dry in his puffy pants, sitting behind good glass watching that ram and formulating a plan to kill him.
But in both cases, that kid is out hunting to the best of his ability, with the gear he has, and no one can fault a guy for getting out there.
However, appropriate gear for the task at hand makes a difference, and in a lot of stuff it is a trade off on how much you are going to use it. Some of us actually use gear more than 5 days a year, and have bought different levels of equipment trying to find what works for us and what doesn't. Guys that have tried it all and settled on what they consider to be "good enough" have a better idea of what will actually work in most conditions.


The rest of your post simply reinforces my position (whether you realize it or not).
Some games require the right equipment to be effective. Some games can be played with minimal equipment, and you can still be successful. Nobody is saying that you need $7k worth of glass to hunt deer in the brush. I DO know that glass makes a hunter more effective in ALL situations. I know that $100 binoculars are better than no binoculars. I know that $600 binoculars are better than $100 binoculars. In optical quality, and reliability. Glass is one of the few things where cost is directly corelated to quality.
But I'm not saying that every hunter is going to know how to use glass properly, or effectively. And based on each individual hunters expectations for their overall hunting experience, it may not be important, or needed.
Glass is a personal decision based on commitment levels to the game, and life priorities. If you hunt 5 days a year by driving around on a side by side for chickens and your biggest sense of fulfillment comes from the atmosphere after the days hunt in camp and the companionship of your buddies, then you probably won't ever justify the expense of a $700 Leupold spotter.
If you are dedicated to being as effective as you possibly can so that you are seeing the most animals with the least amount of effort expended on sub par or sub legal animals, then good glass becomes a good expenditure of money. If your life priorities dictates that $700 is absolute maximum that you can spend on a spotter, then buy that $700 Leupold and learn how to use it to the maximum benefit that you can get out of it. But don't try to throw shade on the guy that spend the money on Alpha glass AND learned how to use that to the best of its ability. That guy makes a conscious decision that the money was worthwhile to him, and he will make a sacrifice someplace else to make up the difference.

Nobody is saying that spending more money will make you a better hunter, but spending good money after bad isn't a wise choice no matter what the situation.
And again, be honest with yourself and your expectations and realistic in your level of use, and make decisions accordingly. If your personal priority is hunting animals that require glassing, then decide what your personal comfort level is for spending, and then work towards that goal. If you don't achieve that goal in the time frame you are hoping and a hunt comes up, borrow whatever you can, and go hunt. More equipment won't make a person a better hunter, but it might make your hunt more enjoyable on a personal comfort level. And that might be the difference between success and failure.

If a guy is willing to hunt with gear that isn't as capable as other stuff on the market that costs more, there is nothing saying that he won't be successful. BUT, he might have to work harder, or be less comfortable doing it to get it done. Or he might get lucky. That's all. It's all a trade off. Either you trade dollars for equipment that make things easier, or you trade personal comfort and keep your dollars for other things and possibly work harder to kill stuff.

This might be one of the most well put posts I've ever seen on here. Well said.

[Weatherby Fan]

Ive used several spotters over the years and started with a straight bodied 25x50mm Leupold Goldring spotting scope and honesty I thought if this is what using a spotting scope is all about Ill stick to my Leica Binoculars..............it had very stiff focus wheel and every time you tried to adjust it it moved the scope off the animal, it was useless in low light and being straight tubed I quickly realized if I was ever getting another spotting scope it was going to be angled

Ive used since then Vortex Viper HD 65mm angled 1st gen, Vortex Razor HD 65mm angled 1st gen, Swarovski 65mm Straight, Leica 25-50x65 angled is what I still use with the 1.8 Doubler which makes it 40-90x and I use it a lot, would like to try it on the 85mm version.

4 of us compared the Viper HD,Razor HD and the Leica side by side, the Razor and the Leica were a bit better optically than the Viper, the biggest thing for me was the functionality of the Leica compared to the Viper, ease of use with the focus wheel, then the compactness of the Razor and the Leica compared to the Viper

3 of the 4 of us couldn't see a difference in the optics with the Razor and the Leica, one liked the Leica better, we all seen a difference over the Viper with the Razor and the Leica but not as much as you would have thought,

Overall I found the functions of the Leica best and having the option of the 1.8 doubler sold me, but anyone using the Vortex Razor HD will be pretty happy, I see the latest version of the Vortex Viper HD is much more streamlined than the 1st generation so should be much more user friendly.

1- I would recommend an angled spotting scope for sheep hunting or Alpine hunting
2- Get a 65mm objective or bigger, 65mm seems to be the most practical from a back packers perspective
3- I prefer the top side focus wheels instead of the bands on the body.
4- if you can borrow a spotter for a few days and see likes and dislikes of what you have
5- go to a store and check few different ones out



http://i.imgur.com/Z0hZicZ.png (https://imgur.com/Z0hZicZ)

Heres the first generation of the Viper HD
http://i.imgur.com/dNizmON.jpg (https://imgur.com/dNizmON)

[RackStar]

I’m very happy with my vortex razor. But I got mine new for 1199 on sale.

if I was to pay today’s prices... I’d go Swarovski most likely.

[IslandWanderer]

My razor works well, but I don't glass with it. I mainly just use it to look at burnt stumps that I see with my binos and think might be bears.

I use a straight eyepiece, as I just couldn't get used to using the angled one.

I bought a decent Manfrotto with a fluid head. I think this helps a lot.

[sako75]

Haha this seems to be typical of Vortex glass. I sent a rifle scope back and my partner a Razor spotter and a pair of Razor binos with the same black dot. Their QC is crap.

That being said if you can find one without a black dot you should be fine haha.

i just sent a swarovski back because of a black dot

[lwing]

I bought a new razor 16-48 last year $900 to my door, see used ones for more. Excellent deal as that’s all I could afford. Buddies swaro is a bit better no doubt. If I had the money I’d buy swaro. Since I’m spotting scope poor and want lifetime warranty, the razor fits the bill. Wouldn’t want to go less then that quality for ranges i glass.
if lots of glassing, high end 15x binos off a monopod is the cats as*. Have the zeiss and hopefully one day able to upgrade to the swaro as the zeiss have had issues. Firm believer in buy once cry once is I’ve learned the hard way
and yes the vortex focus wheel has an issue, but it’s better quality build then the zeiss, and lifetime warranty vs five years

[twoSevenO]

I don't think you fully read my post. Or you didn't understand it, one or the other.

I don't have a 95 mm Swarovski because for me, I can't justify the cost increase for the performance upgrade over what I have now. Same reason that I don't have a $4500 Leica spotter. I know it is a little sharper than my 65mm Swarovski, because I have used one side by side with the mine. Same way I know that the Swarovski is noticeably better than a $700 Leupold or Bushnell, I have bought and compared them side by side, and the Leupold and Bushnell are sitting on a shelf in the garage someplace. I am sure as hell not telling anyone they need to buy top of the line anything, but I am also not telling them than a Swarovski is going to be comparable to a sub $1000 whatever, because it isn't. Not in every condition, but in some there may not be much difference.

I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not, but I'm going to assume that you aren't.
Some games are played most effectively with the correct equipment. Some equipment is noticeably better when you spend the money on it.
If you take a dedicated 25 year old who has one goal in life of say killing a grand slam, and he spends 7 days a week in the gym for 6 months prior to sheep season and arms himself with a 30/30 and a pair of gray sweats and a blue tarp and is prepared to eat blueberries and black flies he finds on the ground, he will not be as effective as the same kid with top shelf gear, proper nutrition, and the knowledge of how to use it. That first kid might get lucky and it won't rain or snow, and he might bump a ram at 25 yards on the first couple hours of walking in his Air Jordans that stands around long enough for him to be fully confident that ram is legal. OR, he might get rained on, be miserable, and not be effective and see a ram at 700 yards that is bedded and watching him slowly shiver to death.
That second kid might be under a siltarp, warm and dry in his puffy pants, sitting behind good glass watching that ram and formulating a plan to kill him.
But in both cases, that kid is out hunting to the best of his ability, with the gear he has, and no one can fault a guy for getting out there.
However, appropriate gear for the task at hand makes a difference, and in a lot of stuff it is a trade off on how much you are going to use it. Some of us actually use gear more than 5 days a year, and have bought different levels of equipment trying to find what works for us and what doesn't. Guys that have tried it all and settled on what they consider to be "good enough" have a better idea of what will actually work in most conditions.


The rest of your post simply reinforces my position (whether you realize it or not).
Some games require the right equipment to be effective. Some games can be played with minimal equipment, and you can still be successful. Nobody is saying that you need $7k worth of glass to hunt deer in the brush. I DO know that glass makes a hunter more effective in ALL situations. I know that $100 binoculars are better than no binoculars. I know that $600 binoculars are better than $100 binoculars. In optical quality, and reliability. Glass is one of the few things where cost is directly corelated to quality.
But I'm not saying that every hunter is going to know how to use glass properly, or effectively. And based on each individual hunters expectations for their overall hunting experience, it may not be important, or needed.
Glass is a personal decision based on commitment levels to the game, and life priorities. If you hunt 5 days a year by driving around on a side by side for chickens and your biggest sense of fulfillment comes from the atmosphere after the days hunt in camp and the companionship of your buddies, then you probably won't ever justify the expense of a $700 Leupold spotter.
If you are dedicated to being as effective as you possibly can so that you are seeing the most animals with the least amount of effort expended on sub par or sub legal animals, then good glass becomes a good expenditure of money. If your life priorities dictates that $700 is absolute maximum that you can spend on a spotter, then buy that $700 Leupold and learn how to use it to the maximum benefit that you can get out of it. But don't try to throw shade on the guy that spend the money on Alpha glass AND learned how to use that to the best of its ability. That guy makes a conscious decision that the money was worthwhile to him, and he will make a sacrifice someplace else to make up the difference.

Nobody is saying that spending more money will make you a better hunter, but spending good money after bad isn't a wise choice no matter what the situation.
And again, be honest with yourself and your expectations and realistic in your level of use, and make decisions accordingly. If your personal priority is hunting animals that require glassing, then decide what your personal comfort level is for spending, and then work towards that goal. If you don't achieve that goal in the time frame you are hoping and a hunt comes up, borrow whatever you can, and go hunt. More equipment won't make a person a better hunter, but it might make your hunt more enjoyable on a personal comfort level. And that might be the difference between success and failure.

If a guy is willing to hunt with gear that isn't as capable as other stuff on the market that costs more, there is nothing saying that he won't be successful. BUT, he might have to work harder, or be less comfortable doing it to get it done. Or he might get lucky. That's all. It's all a trade off. Either you trade dollars for equipment that make things easier, or you trade personal comfort and keep your dollars for other things and possibly work harder to kill stuff.

Oh so now good optics DO have a price? And the weight DOES matter?

Ok. Got it

[KodiakHntr]

Oh so now good optics DO have a price? And the weight DOES matter?

Ok. Got it


Ahhh, ok, you are being deliberately obtuse. Ok, got it.

[Wood butcher]

Nailed it!
great post IMO.
I don't think you fully read my post. Or you didn't understand it, one or the other.

I don't have a 95 mm Swarovski because for me, I can't justify the cost increase for the performance upgrade over what I have now. Same reason that I don't have a $4500 Leica spotter. I know it is a little sharper than my 65mm Swarovski, because I have used one side by side with the mine. Same way I know that the Swarovski is noticeably better than a $700 Leupold or Bushnell, I have bought and compared them side by side, and the Leupold and Bushnell are sitting on a shelf in the garage someplace. I am sure as hell not telling anyone they need to buy top of the line anything, but I am also not telling them than a Swarovski is going to be comparable to a sub $1000 whatever, because it isn't. Not in every condition, but in some there may not be much difference.

I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not, but I'm going to assume that you aren't.
Some games are played most effectively with the correct equipment. Some equipment is noticeably better when you spend the money on it.
If you take a dedicated 25 year old who has one goal in life of say killing a grand slam, and he spends 7 days a week in the gym for 6 months prior to sheep season and arms himself with a 30/30 and a pair of gray sweats and a blue tarp and is prepared to eat blueberries and black flies he finds on the ground, he will not be as effective as the same kid with top shelf gear, proper nutrition, and the knowledge of how to use it. That first kid might get lucky and it won't rain or snow, and he might bump a ram at 25 yards on the first couple hours of walking in his Air Jordans that stands around long enough for him to be fully confident that ram is legal. OR, he might get rained on, be miserable, and not be effective and see a ram at 700 yards that is bedded and watching him slowly shiver to death.
That second kid might be under a siltarp, warm and dry in his puffy pants, sitting behind good glass watching that ram and formulating a plan to kill him.
But in both cases, that kid is out hunting to the best of his ability, with the gear he has, and no one can fault a guy for getting out there.
However, appropriate gear for the task at hand makes a difference, and in a lot of stuff it is a trade off on how much you are going to use it. Some of us actually use gear more than 5 days a year, and have bought different levels of equipment trying to find what works for us and what doesn't. Guys that have tried it all and settled on what they consider to be "good enough" have a better idea of what will actually work in most conditions.


The rest of your post simply reinforces my position (whether you realize it or not).
Some games require the right equipment to be effective. Some games can be played with minimal equipment, and you can still be successful. Nobody is saying that you need $7k worth of glass to hunt deer in the brush. I DO know that glass makes a hunter more effective in ALL situations. I know that $100 binoculars are better than no binoculars. I know that $600 binoculars are better than $100 binoculars. In optical quality, and reliability. Glass is one of the few things where cost is directly corelated to quality.
But I'm not saying that every hunter is going to know how to use glass properly, or effectively. And based on each individual hunters expectations for their overall hunting experience, it may not be important, or needed.
Glass is a personal decision based on commitment levels to the game, and life priorities. If you hunt 5 days a year by driving around on a side by side for chickens and your biggest sense of fulfillment comes from the atmosphere after the days hunt in camp and the companionship of your buddies, then you probably won't ever justify the expense of a $700 Leupold spotter.
If you are dedicated to being as effective as you possibly can so that you are seeing the most animals with the least amount of effort expended on sub par or sub legal animals, then good glass becomes a good expenditure of money. If your life priorities dictates that $700 is absolute maximum that you can spend on a spotter, then buy that $700 Leupold and learn how to use it to the maximum benefit that you can get out of it. But don't try to throw shade on the guy that spend the money on Alpha glass AND learned how to use that to the best of its ability. That guy makes a conscious decision that the money was worthwhile to him, and he will make a sacrifice someplace else to make up the difference.

Nobody is saying that spending more money will make you a better hunter, but spending good money after bad isn't a wise choice no matter what the situation.
And again, be honest with yourself and your expectations and realistic in your level of use, and make decisions accordingly. If your personal priority is hunting animals that require glassing, then decide what your personal comfort level is for spending, and then work towards that goal. If you don't achieve that goal in the time frame you are hoping and a hunt comes up, borrow whatever you can, and go hunt. More equipment won't make a person a better hunter, but it might make your hunt more enjoyable on a personal comfort level. And that might be the difference between success and failure.

If a guy is willing to hunt with gear that isn't as capable as other stuff on the market that costs more, there is nothing saying that he won't be successful. BUT, he might have to work harder, or be less comfortable doing it to get it done. Or he might get lucky. That's all. It's all a trade off. Either you trade dollars for equipment that make things easier, or you trade personal comfort and keep your dollars for other things and possibly work harder to kill stuff.

[porthunter]

Pretty good timing for this, Omer Hrbnic from Precision Optics jumped on the Talk is Sheep podcast to discuss optics and it directly relates to this post, in my opinion.

Great knowledge and worth the listen for the OP

https://www.wildsheepsociety.com/talk-is-sheep-podcast/

[dru88]

Thanks porthunter I will give that podcast a listen. I just started listening to Talk is Sheep last week so I am only on episode 9 but will get to this real soon.

Thanks again to everyone who has given me some advice and some PM's too.

[Norwestalta]

Good post Kodiak.
Curious about meopta and kowa glass? Heard it's pretty close to Swarovski and somewhat cheaper. Can't seem to find a dealer reasonable close to try them out. Pretty hard to beat Swarovski though.

[Arctic Lake]

I have a set of Meoptas for Binos . Excellent glass !
Arctic Lake

[Norwestalta]

I have a set of Meoptas for Binos . Excellent glass !
Arctic Lake

How would you say they compare to Swarovski?

[Arctic Lake]

Sorry can’t help you there never looked through a pair of Swarovski’s
Arctic Lake

How would you say they compare to Swarovski?

[Norwestalta]

Sorry can’t help you there never looked through a pair of Swarovski’s
Arctic Lake

They're so nice on the eyes. Lol

[Greenthumbed]

Not everyone brings home the same pay cheque. You have to work within your own personal budget.
I would consider myself serious hunter. It is pretty much all I think about. I hunted about 70 days last season. I spend what I can justify. I have made upgrades to all my gear since I started hunting. I don’t mind doing it. As you use your gear you get to know what you like and don’t like. So when you do upgrade you know what you are after. That goes for optics, rifles, packs, boots....etc, etc. One thing I’ve learned is there is always a satisfied feeling when you make that upgrade. It’s fun to do! It’s a natural progression.
I am running with Nikon Monarch 7 binos and the Vortex Viper 15-45x65 spotter. I am satisfied with both and use the hell out of both. They are likely not the last of either of these that I will own.
One thing I will offer as advice is don’t buy an entry level spotting scope. They don’t do what you want them to. You’ll only be frustrated with it.

[Weatherby Fan]

How would you say they compare to Swarovski?

The pair of Meopta that A.L. uses Optically they are excellent binoculars, are they built as well as Swarovski no probably not but you won't find a better glass for the money.

[twoSevenO]

Not everyone brings home the same pay cheque. You have to work within your own personal budget.
I would consider myself serious hunter. It is pretty much all I think about. I hunted about 70 days last season. I spend what I can justify. I have made upgrades to all my gear since I started hunting. I don’t mind doing it. As you use your gear you get to know what you like and don’t like. So when you do upgrade you know what you are after. That goes for optics, rifles, packs, boots....etc, etc. One thing I’ve learned is there is always a satisfied feeling when you make that upgrade. It’s fun to do! It’s a natural progression.
I am running with Nikon Monarch 7 binos and the Vortex Viper 15-45x65 spotter. I am satisfied with both and use the hell out of both. They are likely not the last of either of these that I will own.
One thing I will offer as advice is don’t buy an entry level spotting scope. They don’t do what you want them to. You’ll only be frustrated with it.

Well put! This is good advice for anyone starting out.

"Buy once cry once" is a pile of sh** when one needs to apply it to their binos, scope, spotter, range finder, rifle, tent, pack and a million other things in life not hunting related.

Most sensible people draw a line and upgrade as they go along if they decide to get more serious about the sport/hobby/whatever.

[IslandWanderer]

Well put! This is good advice for anyone starting out.

"Buy once cry once" is a pile of sh** when one needs to apply it to their binos, scope, spotter, range finder, rifle, tent, pack and a million other things in life not hunting related.

Most sensible people draw a line and upgrade as they go along if they decide to get more serious about the sport/hobby/whatever.

All good points. Think of all the hunters out there who have to decide how much gas they can afford to spend on a given trip. Particularly people who are raising families or who are underemployed.

[madcalfe]

id try and at least start with vortex razors you will be upgrading them however after you look through a leica or swarvo. my leica spotter get packed with me everywhere i go as i like to use my phone scope and take pics while im out. and id have to disagree with twoSevonO on a few things. binos... you get what you pay for. ive had vortex diamond backs. there ok. just ok. they need to be sent in for warranty but thats what you pay for with vortex. range finder is another thing where you get what you pay for. lower end stuff might not be able to read properly or accurately at X amount of distances. the glass not as crisp at top of the line. rifle optics... sure buy what you can afford but don't get mad when your reticle moves inside the tube on your 300$ scope or it never returns to zero, and so on. sure you can make due but why risk it especially if your mountain hunting. rifle. yea i agree completely with that one you don't need to spend 1000's of dollars on one most production rifles will shoot someone decent especially with a bedding job. its like a vehicle does someone need a lifted Denali when a rusted out S10 will get you to the same place. lol

[Ron.C]

Well put! This is good advice for anyone starting out.

"Buy once cry once" is a pile of sh** when one needs to apply it to their binos, scope, spotter, range finder, rifle, tent, pack and a million other things in life not hunting related.

Most sensible people draw a line and upgrade as they go along if they decide to get more serious about the sport/hobby/whatever.

yep, couldn't agree more. I don't know to many guys that use the old "buy once cry once" crap that haven't had to make due with lesser quality equipment before they were able to buy top of the line.

By all means, buy the best you can afford. Very unlikely you'll ever hear a guy with a Swaro spotter say he regretted his decision to buy it. But there are some other good spotter options out there that will get the job done just fine.

[twoSevenO]

id try and at least start with vortex razors you will be upgrading them however after you look through a leica or swarvo. my leica spotter get packed with me everywhere i go as i like to use my phone scope and take pics while im out. and id have to disagree with twoSevonO on a few things. binos... you get what you pay for. ive had vortex diamond backs. there ok. just ok. they need to be sent in for warranty but thats what you pay for with vortex. range finder is another thing where you get what you pay for. lower end stuff might not be able to read properly or accurately at X amount of distances. the glass not as crisp at top of the line. rifle optics... sure buy what you can afford but don't get mad when your reticle moves inside the tube on your 300$ scope or it never returns to zero, and so on. sure you can make due but why risk it especially if your mountain hunting. rifle. yea i agree completely with that one you don't need to spend 1000's of dollars on one most production rifles will shoot someone decent especially with a bedding job. its like a vehicle does someone need a lifted Denali when a rusted out S10 will get you to the same place. lol

We have covered all of this already. No one said to go buy vortex diamondback binoculars if you are in a position to get something better.

And for the love of god .... there is no such thing as SWARVO!!!

Stop saying that, people. SWARVO is not a thing. The only short hand for Swarovski can be SWARO or SWAROV. In no way, shape or form is the V before the O!!!

[whitlers]

We have covered all of this already. No one said to go buy vortex diamondback binoculars if you are in a position to get something better.

And for the love of god .... there is no such thing as SWARVO!!!

Stop saying that, people. SWARVO is not a thing. The only short hand for Swarovski can be SWARO or SWAROV. In no way, shape or form is the V before the O!!!

Did you not get your coffee this morning??

I would say purchasing the best you can afford is good advice. However the buy once cry once is a real thing. I am sure many people on here can attest to buying multiple pieces equipment many times over.

Bottom line, everyone has their own view of what is important to them and what quality gear they want to run. Buy the best you can afford and go have fun!

[IslandWanderer]

We have covered all of this already. No one said to go buy vortex diamondback binoculars if you are in a position to get something better.

And for the love of god .... there is no such thing as SWARVO!!!

Stop saying that, people. SWARVO is not a thing. The only short hand for Swarovski can be SWARO or SWAROV. In no way, shape or form is the V before the O!!!

Lol, I'd like to start a new shortened version of Vortex.

Vorx! I'll be using it regularly till it becomes popular.

[Weatherby Fan]

Well put! This is good advice for anyone starting out.

"Buy once cry once" is a pile of sh** when one needs to apply it to their binos, scope, spotter, range finder, rifle, tent, pack and a million other things in life not hunting related.

Most sensible people draw a line and upgrade as they go along if they decide to get more serious about the sport/hobby/whatever.

Theres different ways to skin a cat, if a guy doesn’t mind buying something entry level to start with and maybe even a second time.....then like you say if he gets serious can always sell and move up.....or save up for something better to start with, I think guys that have gone that route tend to realize how important good optics are so they try to save some fellows the entry level step/s into optics by going to the “buy once cry once” theory.

[longrifle]

or save up for something better to start with, I think guys that have gone that route tend to realize how important good optics are so they try to save some fellows the entry level step/s into optics by going to the “buy once cry once” theory.

BINGO!! I wish that I would have purchased my SWARVO right off the bat...would have saved me money in the long run and the difference in optical quality is well worth the extra time that it would have taken to save up!!!


'rifle

[IslandWanderer]

BINGO!! I wish that I would have purchased my SWAROV's right off the bat...would have saved me money and the difference in optical quality is well worth the extra time that it would have taken to save up!!!


'rifle

Yes, except some guys might need to save for 5 years for a Vorx Razor. Do they hunt without binos for 5 years?

[twoSevenO]

Theres different ways to skin a cat, if a guy doesn’t mind buying something entry level to start with and maybe even a second time.....then like you say if he gets serious can always sell and move up.....or save up for something better to start with, I think guys that have gone that route tend to realize how important good optics are so they try to save some fellows the entry level step/s into optics by going to the “buy once cry once” theory.

Sure, but theres also guys who buy high end stuff and realize they're just not that into it and they could've been satisfied with a lesser item and had $1000 for something else.

"Buy once cry once" is dumb because people assume someone asking here for advice has 1 hobby, hunting.

Maybe the guy just spend $3000 on top of the line skiing gear and $3000 on scuba gear - and it took him a while to save up for it all. Theres no need for him to spend $3000 on one hunting item if scuba and skiing are his priorities. Buy once cry once just doesnt make sense for him!

If you're buying once for everything you own, then youre not crying once. You're crying all the damn time!

[Weatherby Fan]

Sure, but theres also guys who buy high end stuff and realize they're just not that into it and they could've been satisfied with a lesser item and had $1000 for something else.

"Buy once cry once" is dumb because people assume someone asking here for advice has 1 hobby, hunting.

Maybe the guy just spend $3000 on top of the line skiing gear and $3000 on scuba gear - and it took him a while to save up for it all. Theres no need for him to spend $3000 on one hunting item if scuba and skiing are his priorities. Buy once cry once just doesnt make sense for him!

If you're buying once for everything you own, then youre not crying once. You're crying all the damn time!

twosevenO.......you mean there's other hobbies beside hunting.....now I know you've been into the sauce this morning :mrgreen:


I use my binos year round for work as well as hunting but Im probably in the minority, I also use my spotting scope a lot for picture taking with my cell, but like you said most guys buy a set of binoculars......use it for 1 or two weeks a year hunting and into the closet so pretty hard to justify the expense.

[firebird]

So whats the difference between a bird watching spotting scope and one for hunting?

Birders are probably tougher to please with optics. Whenever I want a review on Binos or Spotters I check the bird forums first

[twoSevenO]

twosevenO.......you mean there's other hobbies beside hunting.....now I know you've been into the sauce this morning :mrgreen:

People need something to do to pass the time until September :D

[Weatherby Fan]

People need something to do to pass the time until September :D

Im with you on that, Ill have another glass of Cab-Sav please !


http://i.imgur.com/IeeT2kJ.jpg (https://imgur.com/IeeT2kJ)

[Greenthumbed]

The other thing to consider is the pleasure of upgrading. I wouldn’t think that “buying once” is any fun. I spend my whole winter studying different gear and upgrading. Not really because I need to, but because I like to. It’s fun! If you start at the top, where do you go from there? Sounds boring to me! I like trying different stuff. I like researching and learning. If you buy the very best right from the start what do you read about? Boring threads about inferior gear!? Probably.
Like I said before, I have mid range optics. They are a big improvement from what I started with. I’ll try something else next time and pass this stuff on to my boys or sell it used to fund the next purchase. Things like optics and rifles hold their value really well if not too badly abused. It’s almost like money in the bank. There is no harm in making gradual upgrades. In fact, you might just figure something out on your own instead of taking advice from guys on a forum page.
just my thoughts

[madcalfe]

Sure, but theres also guys who buy high end stuff and realize they're just not that into it and they could've been satisfied with a lesser item and had $1000 for something else.

"Buy once cry once" is dumb because people assume someone asking here for advice has 1 hobby, hunting.

Maybe the guy just spend $3000 on top of the line skiing gear and $3000 on scuba gear - and it took him a while to save up for it all. Theres no need for him to spend $3000 on one hunting item if scuba and skiing are his priorities. Buy once cry once just doesnt make sense for him!

If you're buying once for everything you own, then youre not crying once. You're crying all the damn time!

true but resale value of Swarovski or Leica tends to be pretty good. there actually pretty easy to sell second hand and don't loose out on to much money.

[KodiakHntr]

I'm fairly certain that the OP has expressed an interest in getting into sheep hunting in a couple of years. Fairly certain that someone has mentioned for him to get out after it this coming August on that thread to see how much he likes it before he gets too carried away with buying gear instead of waiting till 2022 (or whatever his proposed start date is...)
Very few guys who go on their first sheep hunt think to themselves "man, I dunno. Maybe I should try that one more time to see if I like it", you are either hooked, or it just isn't for you. Beg and borrow gear. Do what he needs to, to get out there after it and see what it is all about. Find out if he is going to be a sheep hunter or not. If he isn't, then he can reassess his hunting priorities in life.

Now before you gloss over that, fully comprehend what that statement is all about. The OP has stated that he doesn't have any background in mountain game hunting on another thread, but he is putting a plan in place to work towards his goal. That takes some drive to do that when none of your buddies are mountain hunters that have been talking up their trips.
To me, that says that he might be leaning more towards getting bitten by the sheep bug. Or at the very least, expand his hunting horizons. Good for him, that takes balls. There are a lot of guys out there that never do that, never hunt outside of their home region, or never try anything different as to species.

As to the buy once concept... I heard it a lot when I first started to read online forums. And I wish that I had taken it to heart earlier on.
I wasted a lot of money to start with before I came to fully understand that there are guys out there with a lot more disposable income than me, who buy gear and try it side by side with other stuff, simply because they want to. And a lot of those guys are more than willing to share what they have learned. A lot MORE of those guys are NOT willing to share what they have learned due to people shouting them down with the "not everyone makes as much money" or "this does just as good as that for less money" and they simply don't like conflict.
And there is a very big difference between the opinion of someone who has "done research online" and bought "this particular one because it is just as good so you should buy it too and validate my opinion" and the guy who has used X versus Y side by side and Y is better than X in this condition and under these circumstances and because of this specification.
Buy Once Guys are more likely to ask "hey, what do you really think your use level will be, and what do you want to do with it?" and then give you an option that they have used. Or tell you that "you know what, I wish I had saved up a bit longer and did it once because it would have saved me money in the long run, which let me buy more gas money for more trips, or upgrade this piece of equipment sooner which increased my overall enjoyment".
I personally have done it with optics - binoculars, spotting scopes, rifle scopes, and rangefinders. I have done it with rifles. I have done it with packs and tents and sleeping bags and pads. I have done it with horses, and trailers, pickups and bikes. In several of those things I listened, and jumped over several levels of upgrades and saved myself money in the long run, and found equipment that will best suit my needs. And that was from listening to guys who had tried it all, who could properly interpret what they were seeing, and who weren't afraid to say so.


The OP stated that he was looking to spend around $700, and then stated that he was adjusting that upper level of his budget a bit higher.
Dru, if you are thinking of bumping that budget up a bit, as much as I hate to say it, a Vortex Razor is going to be probably 80%+ of what a lower end Swarovski spotter will be. At last light you will be on par counting caribou tines at 1000 yards. Early mornings though, when the sun is at a bad angle and shining towards you, you will lose clarity, especially once you get to the edges. Colors might be a bit washed out in comparison, which may not be important to you, until you are trying to pick out a rock colored stationary animal bedded among rock colored rocks. That will be more pronounced towards the edges of the field of vision as well. And THAT will be a problem if you are trying to pick apart a hillside using it with proper glassing technique. If you are going to be using it looking at goats or assessing bears that you have already found with your bino's, then you are pretty close to where you need to be in regards to quality of spotter, IF you are going to be getting serious about that stuff.

For a mountain hunt though, robust glass is an important feature. Dropping your pack or having it fall against a rock and having a fragile spotter inside probably isn't a great feeling, especially on day one of a multi day hunt.

And I have no doubt that the scuba divers and golf players and expensive liquor drinkers who have too many hobbies and may be living beyond their means are going to find fault or shit to nitpick in this post, but I don't really GAF. For some of us hunting isn't a hobby, its a lifestyle, and we take this shit seriously.

[Weatherby Fan]

I actually offered him my Leica Spotting scope to try out, he can take bear hunting this spring and see if using an angled spotter suits his fancy, this way he has idea about a decent spotting scope and can compare with others.

[KodiakHntr]

I actually offered him my Leica Spotting scope to try out, he can take bear hunting this spring and see if using an angled spotter suits his fancy, this way he has idea about a decent spotting scope and can compare with others.

Damn good offer.

The other aspect to keep in mind with this stuff, is that the goal posts continually are moving. What is top shelf gear this year might be mid range a couple of years down the road in any companies product line due to technological advances. And prices typically don't go down.... However, buying stuff that was top of the line a couple months after an upgraded version is released can net some significant savings.

[Greenthumbed]

I'm fairly certain that the OP has expressed an interest in getting into sheep hunting in a couple of years. Fairly certain that someone has mentioned for him to get out after it this coming August on that thread to see how much he likes it before he gets too carried away with buying gear instead of waiting till 2022 (or whatever his proposed start date is...)
Very few guys who go on their first sheep hunt think to themselves "man, I dunno. Maybe I should try that one more time to see if I like it", you are either hooked, or it just isn't for you. Beg and borrow gear. Do what he needs to, to get out there after it and see what it is all about. Find out if he is going to be a sheep hunter or not. If he isn't, then he can reassess his hunting priorities in life.

Now before you gloss over that, fully comprehend what that statement is all about. The OP has stated that he doesn't have any background in mountain game hunting on another thread, but he is putting a plan in place to work towards his goal. That takes some drive to do that when none of your buddies are mountain hunters that have been talking up their trips.
To me, that says that he might be leaning more towards getting bitten by the sheep bug. Or at the very least, expand his hunting horizons. Good for him, that takes balls. There are a lot of guys out there that never do that, never hunt outside of their home region, or never try anything different as to species.

As to the buy once concept... I heard it a lot when I first started to read online forums. And I wish that I had taken it to heart earlier on.
I wasted a lot of money to start with before I came to fully understand that there are guys out there with a lot more disposable income than me, who buy gear and try it side by side with other stuff, simply because they want to. And a lot of those guys are more than willing to share what they have learned. A lot MORE of those guys are NOT willing to share what they have learned due to people shouting them down with the "not everyone makes as much money" or "this does just as good as that for less money" and they simply don't like conflict.
And there is a very big difference between the opinion of someone who has "done research online" and bought "this particular one because it is just as good so you should buy it too and validate my opinion" and the guy who has used X versus Y side by side and Y is better than X in this condition and under these circumstances and because of this specification.
Buy Once Guys are more likely to ask "hey, what do you really think your use level will be, and what do you want to do with it?" and then give you an option that they have used. Or tell you that "you know what, I wish I had saved up a bit longer and did it once because it would have saved me money in the long run, which let me buy more gas money for more trips, or upgrade this piece of equipment sooner which increased my overall enjoyment".
I personally have done it with optics - binoculars, spotting scopes, rifle scopes, and rangefinders. I have done it with rifles. I have done it with packs and tents and sleeping bags and pads. I have done it with horses, and trailers, pickups and bikes. In several of those things I listened, and jumped over several levels of upgrades and saved myself money in the long run, and found equipment that will best suit my needs. And that was from listening to guys who had tried it all, who could properly interpret what they were seeing, and who weren't afraid to say so.


The OP stated that he was looking to spend around $700, and then stated that he was adjusting that upper level of his budget a bit higher.
Dru, if you are thinking of bumping that budget up a bit, as much as I hate to say it, a Vortex Razor is going to be probably 80%+ of what a lower end Swarovski spotter will be. At last light you will be on par counting caribou tines at 1000 yards. Early mornings though, when the sun is at a bad angle and shining towards you, you will lose clarity, especially once you get to the edges. Colors might be a bit washed out in comparison, which may not be important to you, until you are trying to pick out a rock colored stationary animal bedded among rock colored rocks. That will be more pronounced towards the edges of the field of vision as well. And THAT will be a problem if you are trying to pick apart a hillside using it with proper glassing technique. If you are going to be using it looking at goats or assessing bears that you have already found with your bino's, then you are pretty close to where you need to be in regards to quality of spotter, IF you are going to be getting serious about that stuff.

For a mountain hunt though, robust glass is an important feature. Dropping your pack or having it fall against a rock and having a fragile spotter inside probably isn't a great feeling, especially on day one of a multi day hunt.

And I have no doubt that the scuba divers and golf players and expensive liquor drinkers who have too many hobbies and may be living beyond their means are going to find fault or shit to nitpick in this post, but I don't really GAF. For some of us hunting isn't a hobby, its a lifestyle, and we take this shit seriously.
Good post! Well said.

[dru88]

Thanks to all for the great information. As stated earlier Weatherby Fan has graciously offered to let me use his angled Leica angled spotting scope on a bear hunt(scouting for bighorns as well) this spring to test out the angled vs the straight and look through some decent glass too. It seems to me that after reading all the posts on this thread I might be better off saving a little more cash and maybe looking at something used to get more bang for my buck.

Again thanks to all who take the time to help out.

[Krico]

The budget is determined by the buyer. You can get the most bang for your buck quality wise buying used. Another method which has worked well for me is buying demos or show samples after the big trade shows - especially US ones...when our dollar was high I picked up a Swarovski 20-60x65 spotter (new in box, which had been opened, for $1,500. Last year I decided my son was old enough to take care of good binos, I picked up a set of 10x42 Leica Trinovids, $850 to my door. He gets to use my Minox HG, another bino I picked up after a trade show for ~$500 that retails over $1,000.

All that said - I’d never suggest that someone save money and sit at home vs buy what you can and get out there. I shot my first sheep using $300 Bushnell Legend binos (gasp) and NO SPOTTER, NO RANGEFINDER (crazy I know).

Also I don’t think upgrading equates to money lost. There is value in the use you get out of those initial purchases. My old Bushnells which did me just fine on my first several mountain hunts owe me nothing - and still ride in the console of my truck all year so there’s always something in there.

[wlbc]

Oh boy, this thread is still going....oh yeah, it's February.

I think I mentioned in a previous post that I have a pair of EL Range binos and a Leica spotting scope. It is worth mentioning that I hunted for 35 years before I felt I could justify the expense. I do okay, but my family and household always came first. I managed with a 20 power Celestron spotting scope and an old pair of 7x50 brand x binos for years. We managed, the kids were basically raised on game meat.

You don't NEED anything more than an iron sight 303 British to fill the freezer. Can one be more effective with better gear - absolutely although I used to work with a guy who could do amazing things with an old 303 Brit. When I did make the jump it was after doing a couple of lower or midrange upgrades and I paid cash because I am not going to incur debt for something like that. I started out using a Winchester Model 670A 3006 with an old 4x Leupold scope for years - damn, somehow I managed to survive and kill stuff most years. Heck, it's a wonder I lived because that was a push feed action and we all know how dangerous a push feed is when compared to a CRF action when hunting upside down....

The OP was looking for reasonable council on a lower midrange upgrade and a lot of us shared our experiences. From what I could read some pretty good council.

I would offer to our little community that almost everything on this thread is well intentioned council which others can take or leave. If one thinks that x is the limit then good for them - but consider this if you have not used the good stuff you are not qualified to judge. And by use I don't mean glancing through someone's spotter at the range on a bright summer day, I mean glassing slides for hours for days on end. You truly don't know until you have used them - extensively. Just saying, let's keep it light.

Oh yeah, and that SWARVO thing, that's just gold. I think I'm going to dig my SWARVO's out and look at something. Just going to get the popcorn....

[twoSevenO]

Oh boy, this thread is still going....oh yeah, it's February.

I think I mentioned in a previous post that I have a pair of EL Range binos and a Leica spotting scope. It is worth mentioning that I hunted for 35 years before I felt I could justify the expense. I do okay, but my family and household always came first. I managed with a 20 power Celestron spotting scope and an old pair of 7x50 brand x binos for years. We managed, the kids were basically raised on game meat.

You don't NEED anything more than an iron sight 303 British to fill the freezer. Can one be more effective with better gear - absolutely although I used to work with a guy who could do amazing things with an old 303 Brit. When I did make the jump it was after doing a couple of lower or midrange upgrades and I paid cash because I am not going to incur debt for something like that. I started out using a Winchester Model 670A 3006 with an old 4x Leupold scope for years - damn, somehow I managed to survive and kill stuff most years. Heck, it's a wonder I lived because that was a push feed action and we all know how dangerous a push feed is when compared to a CRF action when hunting upside down....

The OP was looking for reasonable council on a lower midrange upgrade and a lot of us shared our experiences. From what I could read some pretty good council.

I would offer to our little community that almost everything on this thread is well intentioned council which others can take or leave. If one thinks that x is the limit then good for them - but consider this if you have not used the good stuff you are not qualified to judge. And by use I don't mean glancing through someone's spotter at the range on a bright summer day, I mean glassing slides for hours for days on end. You truly don't know until you have used them - extensively. Just saying, let's keep it light.

Oh yeah, and that SWARVO thing, that's just gold. I think I'm going to dig my SWARVO's out and look at something. Just going to get the popcorn....


well said!! ^


what's SWARVO? Is that the new Chinese spotters on ebay? :)