Thin horn mountain sheep questions

[Leveraction]

Hey meat eaters ,

ive got a question, looking on line partly and see some of the answers but wanted to ask a fellow hunter/s

Ive never sheep hunted. Hunted 40 years now, mainly moose, elk, white tails,

but where I am going this coming fall, there is a general open season for “thinhorn mountain sheep “

is this a Dall sheep ?
is this a bighorn ?
is this a stone sheep ?

from what I read on line the species interbreed somewhat creating colour variations, but it’s does not say clearly these are or are NOT thinhorn mountain sheep.

thanks in advance guys.

G

[Skull Hunter]

If there is a GOS for thinhorns you'd be hunting Stone Sheep. Thinhorns consist of Stone's and Dalls. The only Dall sheep in BC are in the extreme NW corner and the hunting opportunities for them are LEH.

[boxhitch]

The interbreeding may have occured at the end of the ice ages that caused the general split in location and habitat of both species
The way things are now there is virtually no overlap of distribution

BC Gov't has several documents on sheep and other critters, i.d., habitat, biology etc

Status of Rocky Mountain Bighorn in British Columbia
Status of Thinhorn Sheep in British Columbia
Thinhorn Sheep in British Columbia
Bighorn Sheep in British Columbia

[srupp]

Thinhorns..Dallas stones...or combination of dall stone interbreeding..results are based on hair color of cape..almost always any dark hairs results in stone classifica6ion..technically called a Fannin sheep.
Srupp

[Skull Hunter]

Thinhorns..Dallas stones...or combination of dall stone interbreeding..results are based on hair color of cape..almost always any dark hairs results in stone classifica6ion..technically called a Fannin sheep.
Srupp

Has there been any change to this though? It's my understanding that a recent study suggested that nearly all sheep outside of BC were genetically Dall sheep, this would indicate that although perhaps having a darker cape, a ram shot in the Yukon or NWT would almost certainly be genetically a Dall? I don't know if B&C or grand slam club have changed their definition of a Dall, or changed their acceptable distribution, but they probably should if the study is accurate and reliable. (https://www.ualberta.ca/science/news/2018/november/thinhorn-sheep-populations.html)

[boxhitch]

Zijian Sim has your answers for the genetic study done recently

[Skull Hunter]

Zijian Sim has your answers for the genetic study done recently

I'm familiar with the study. My question is more about record books/clubs. I'm not entirely sure on how they define Dall's as I don't really care much about the books. With that said I was under the impression they often distinguish between a Dall Sheep and Stone's sheep by it's colour. For example a "fanin" sheep taken in the Yukon is most likely a genetic dall, but would the record books accept this as a Dall Sheep? My understanding is they typically wouldn't if it had x number of dark hairs.

[Krico]

I'm familiar with the study. My question is more about record books/clubs. I'm not entirely sure on how they define Dall's as I don't really care much about the books. With that said I was under the impression they often distinguish between a Dall Sheep and Stone's sheep by it's colour. For example a "fanin" sheep taken in the Yukon is most likely a genetic dall, but would the record books accept this as a Dall Sheep? My understanding is they typically wouldn't if it had x number of dark hairs.

You are correct. Any more than a few dark hairs on the tail and it gets classified as a Stone’s.
In BC, only the white sheep shot west of Bennett Lake in 6-28 and 6-29 get classified as Dall’s.
I don’t think the new science has changed how governments or records clubs classify the subspecies. Also as far as I know only SCI currently recognizes “fannin” as a separate subspecies, long thought to just be light coloration of Stone’s but the new science suggests otherwise.

It will be interesting to see if definitions change in future based on new science or if “we’ve always done it this way so we’re not changing” type thinking wins out.

[Walking Buffalo]

You are correct. Any more than a few dark hairs on the tail and it gets classified as a Stone’s.
In BC, only the white sheep shot west of Bennett Lake in 6-28 and 6-29 get classified as Dall’s.
I don’t think the new science has changed how governments or records clubs classify the subspecies. Also as far as I know only SCI currently recognizes “fannin” as a separate subspecies, long thought to just be light coloration of Stone’s but the new science suggests otherwise.

It will be interesting to see if definitions change in future based on new science or if “we’ve always done it this way so we’re not changing” type thinking wins out.


Hunters should work to ensure that the "Old way" wins out.

Research by Species Dividers is being used to reduce or eliminate hunting of specific animal populations as science labels these populations as unique.

[Krico]

Interesting perspective WB. Any specific examples to share?

[Walking Buffalo]

Local examples are "Kermode" Black bears and Alaskan "Glacial" bears.

These are just black bears with a predominant genetic quirk.
That was enough to end the hunting of them.

In Ontario, the "Algonquin" wolf, another ridiculously labeled "unique population" has ended the hunting of trapping of All wolves and coyotes over a vast area, far beyond the known range of the genetic *******s.

[Skull Hunter]

Local examples are "Kermode" Black bears and Alaskan "Glacial" bears.

These are just black bears with a predominant genetic quirk.
That was enough to end the hunting of them.

In Ontario, the "Algonquin" wolf, another ridiculously labeled "unique population" has ended the hunting of trapping of All wolves and coyotes over a vast area, far beyond the known range of the genetic *******s.

But the question wasn't really about genetic variance within a species. The question is if True Dall's sheep (genetically speaking) would be recognized by Boone&Crockett/Grand Slam Club, even if they had more than 10 black hairs, or whatever the standard is.