Another ram run down Kamloops

[happygilmore]

I don't know if it's just me but I get real pissed when I hear another big ram got smoked on the highway at the base of Paul Mt. a couple of days ago. The highways or the Native band need to try to protect this herd- if that means game fence and a overpass or underpass for the sheep to cross the highway or ALOT of flashing signs to get people to notice and realize they are there. It wouldn't be so bad if they were at night, this I could understand but they are not crossing at night- that I've ever seen.
Just my rant for today.:x

[Will]

Yep....it's been talked about for long enough, someone should buck up and actually do something.

A simple fence or perhaps a complete reengineering of the Human race to remove all the dumb ones that can't seem to read signs and warnings.....everyone's in too big of a rush......slow down.

[ruttinbuck]

I actually witnessed a ram being killed yesterday.Logging truck stopped to let him walk across the highway but the 1 ton truck in the inside lane must not have clued in as he saw the ram when it was too late to stop.
Pretty horrific sight as the sheep died instantly,I can't imagine what the damage would have been to a family sedan or compact car as this was a large mature ram with as big a body as any large muley buck I have looked at.RB

[Ramshot]

High volume area+people that drive like idiots=dead sheep! Sure, a fence would help but there are some side roads that would pose a problem to keep the sheep on the mountain side. I guess bigger signs would help, like the ones in Spences Bridge. But in the end people have to slow down!

[Orangethunder]

I think that bigger signs would help but perhaps a drop in the speed limit might help too. Its not far from the Husky intersection to the Mt Paul so whats the hurry?

[Gateholio]

Shame........

[Will]

I seen the mess that semi a few years back did too......I cannot remember exact numbers ??? but looked like 1/2 dozen or so got wiped out all at once........:redface:
I do remember the Idiot didn't even stop...:|

Seems a shame it took so long to offer LEH's for that herd when this year alone there have been more killed off via the highway then the total LEH's given out......Perhaps something will come of it ?

[Wildfoot]

I seen the mess that semi a few years back did too......I cannot remember exact numbers ??? but looked like 1/2 dozen or so got wiped out all at once........:redface:
I do remember the Idiot didn't even stop...:|

Seems a shame it took so long to offer LEH's for that herd when this year alone there have been more killed off via the highway then the total LEH's given out......Perhaps something will come of it ?

reminds me of a story i read of antelope (i think that what it was) in sask. They go onto the roads to feed on the salt, and sometimes the temp dips and whole herds get frozen to the road! I think the record is 43 hit with one vehicle!

[Chuck]

Gee I hate to hear about and see what damage vehicles and trains do to the wildlife. Like six hunters tagged their bucks or whatever and then fourteen cars tagged that many more. So how theh are you supposed to account for that hunter success ratio? Wasted game and wasted meat!

[Will]

So how theh are you supposed to account for that hunter success ratio? Wasted game and wasted meat!
Perhaps knowing what the those 2 Ram LEH's were worth will put abit of Value to those Sheep instead of decorating every North Bound Peterbuilt grill with them........:wink:

[twanger]

I think they need to lower the speed limit to 60km, like they do thru Jasper Park. How come the Wild Sheep or Kamloops Rod & Gun, along with KIB. have not built a nice 8' fence from Sun Rivers to Paul Lk. road? :shock:

[boxhitch]

As stated, multiple access roads cause issues. Also, the grazing on the west (?) side of the highway is good feed, needed by the increasing large band of sheep. They ahve lost habitat to the subdivision and golf course.
This is Reserve land (PC term ?) so that poses issues when partnering with D.O.T , too.
Suggesting a lower speed limit on a highway, just because wildlife are in the area, flys in the face of modern transportation and the need to travel faster. Highways throughout the province are being improved, to be safer for speeding traffic.

[1/2 slam]

I really hate when this happens. I saw a ewe get hit a few years ago. Luckily the veh had slowed a lot. She appeared to be OK.

[hunter1947]

Put a fence up in that stretch of the hiway. they only need to go a short distance with the fencing ,keep them behind the line.http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon8.gif

[David Heitsman]

I'll see if we can get it on the agenda the next time we meet to discuss this herd. I work with the KIB and the Ministry in Kamloops and have found that everyone is more than co-operative with regards to the long term healthof these sheep. I hate to see anywildlife hit the ground like this but I believe that the highway mortality rate is calculated in on the long range forcasts for this band of sheep.

[FLHTCUI]

Im sure if some rich developer was to put a golf course near by the Government would buck up for the fence you are mentioning...
just my .02 this morning.
Rob

[bighornbob]

Why doesn't the KIB use the money from the tag they sold last year (I beleive around $60,000) to build a fence. They can pay for materials and I am sure the WSSOBC and the local clubs could get the manpower to put it in.

BHB

[WoodOx]

FLH: If you think a municipality pays for anything when it comes to developers you coudlnt be further from the truth.

If a 'rich' developer was developing near that area (Which if im thinkning of the same spot your all talking about, no developer would) then the municipality would make him pay for such a fence, DCC's would pay for such a fence, of the general public in 'loops could lobby for, and rightly get, such a fence.

[Will]

Im sure if some rich developer was to put a golf course near by the Government would buck up for the fence you are mentioning...
just my .02 this morning.
Rob
There is a Golf course nearby, right beside the stretch of highway we're discussing.........some of the Biggest Rams hang out on it occasionally.
Hasn't changed anything so far;-)

[WoodOx]

Is that Tobiano Will?

Yall down in kamloops should have vocalized your concerns for the sheep when that dev was just beginning. God knows the public in kelowna is vocal about development!

[boxhitch]

The sheep have been there for years, so has the highway. This isn't the first time the idea of fencing has been brought up.

[WoodOx]

The sheep have been there for years, so has the highway. This isn't the first time the idea of fencing has been brought up.


So the developer who is likely from out of town, should have rightly known that the sheep need a fence prior to him beginnig the dev?

[boxhitch]

The sheep were on the highway long before the start of the development , which is not exactly road-side.

[Ltbullken]

Yep....it's been talked about for long enough, someone should buck up and actually do something.

A simple fence or perhaps a complete reengineering of the Human race to remove all the dumb ones that can't seem to read signs and warnings.....everyone's in too big of a rush......slow down.

Culling the weak and the dumb... that's why we have large predators! :-P

[Wildfoot]

tobiano is 20 mins west of kamloops. This area with sheep is on the north shore out on the Indian Reserve land.

[FLHTCUI]

There is a Golf course nearby, right beside the stretch of highway we're discussing.........some of the Biggest Rams hang out on it occasionally.
Hasn't changed anything so far;-)
Ok, I am not from the area and have a general idea where the Rams are being hit.
The fence I was referring to is on the Sunshine coast .... and who payed to have the Elk Fence put up so the golfers could hit their little white balls.
I was taken out of context in my first post, and the Governemnt or the local band should do something to save these Important Animals.
Just a Rant.
Rob

[happygilmore]

All they would have to do is fence from the corner by the golf course to the first road then across to the pinitan road, there is alot of grazing on the north side of that hill.
but I would rather see a huge increase in signage! put a flashing light and sign every 50ft! and put a pulloff for the people to gaulk!.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Sounds like this would be a good joint project for the Ministry/ICBC/ KIB (funds generated from the auctioned permit)/WSSBC/FNAWS and anyone else that might have an interest in it.


SSS

[Will]

The sheep have been there for years, so has the highway. This isn't the first time the idea of fencing has been brought up.
That's kinda the point.........it's been talked about for at least 20 years as far as I can remember........probably longer.
Seems silly to see them constantly get pasted every year by vehicles.

They did capture a bunch of them for transplanting somewhere else a few years back.....not sure where those sheep went ?

Yep perhaps some simple fencing and better signage would sure save alot of wasted sheep........perhaps maybe save a Human life or two as well;)

[GoatGuy]

3 pages of these "they" people - to this day I've heard about the 'they' millions of times but still never met one.


Probably should be the "we" people.


Finding money for this stuff is easy - finding volunteers is hard. It'll be talked about for the next 20 yrs or until one hunter decides he/she has had enough.


Want it done, do it. :eek:

[Will]

Want it done, do it. :eek:
Great who's into a Fence building party ? Let's Do it ! ..........probably get sued by the Band though:-|

[GoatGuy]

Great who's into a Fence building party ? Let's Do it ! ..........probably get sued by the Band though:-|

The projects that I've been involved in the local band has been 100% supportive.

Won't know unless you try ;)

[boxhitch]

Sounds like this would be a good joint project for the Ministry/ICBC/ KIB (funds generated from the auctioned permit)/WSSBC/FNAWS and anyone else that might have an interest in it.


SSS
The moneys from the auctioned permit are part of the Landowners Incentive Program, so have to spent on that owners property, in this case the Harper Ranch as it was known. Which happens to be owned by the KIB.

[boxhitch]

They did capture a bunch of them for transplanting somewhere else a few years back.....not sure where those sheep went ?

Two years and two transplants had sheep taken to Shorts Creek on the westside of Okanagan Lake (to an area of less-than-ideal habitat, but thats another story)
The effort at the time was to take some of the sheep from the area close to the highway to ease the numbers there, and in answer to the concerns raised the last time a news-worthy incident of a trucker driving over a bunch of ewes and lambs.
But times do change, and policies can change too, so maybe the fencing idea should be re-visited. I bet if the KIB were to instigate something, THAT would get peoples attention.

[boxhitch]

Due to concerned parties speaking up, a meeting of interested groups was held in December, with a positive outcome. From recent followup work, there is a commitment in place to fence the highway. This is a win/win, for the sheep and the motorists.

[bayou]

boxhitch I hope it works for you but they can also cause more problems, years ago when they did it outside of banff along the highway I heard they lost more sheep for the coyotes were able to run then along the fence and catch them.

[Ramshot]

Need not worry to much about the yotes:smile:. We keep them honest over here:wink:.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Yes, Ramshot is just like the sheep dog protecting his flock from Wily E. Coyote:cool:!
They're in good hands!

Hats off to all those who made this happen. All good!!!

The yotes definitely use the fence at the bottom of the Connector to run muleys. That's for sure.

SSS

[Will]

Due to concerned parties speaking up, a meeting of interested groups was held in December, with a positive outcome. From recent followup work, there is a commitment in place to fence the highway. This is a win/win, for the sheep and the motorists.
Great news......Good to see !
I heard too they are thinking about capturing 1/2 the herd(?) for transplants elsewhere as well ?
A good strong Herd that Mt Paul one ! :cool:

Nice Yotes too ! BTW !

[bayou]

nice group of coyotes are you calling them are just stalking. If thats the type of terrain your fencing its very different then around banff. Like I said I hope it works I know of over 12 killed by veichles this winter in one of the EK herds a couple of legal rams as well, there has been some talk of fences there as well but Im not sure it would work there.

[Ramshot]

Yes, Ramshot is just like the sheep dog protecting his flock from Wily E. Coyote:cool:!
They're in good hands!

Hats off to all those who made this happen. All good!!!

The yotes definitely use the fence at the bottom of the Connector to run muleys. That's for sure.

SSS


Just helping to even the odds, especially when it's close to lambing time:-P. Got some new 62 grain Barnes varmint grenades I'm going to try on some yotes in my Ruger M77R 6mm. Bayou, I call with hand calls and also with FoxproFX3.

[boxhitch]

I heard too they are thinking about capturing 1/2 the herd(?) for transplants elsewhere as well ?
Target number would be only about 15% , but aimed at the crossing violators.
The initial phase of fencing is extensive and should address the main problem. Time will tell if expansion is necessary.
It looks like tihe KIB members do well at problem control, atta go B.

[boxhitch]

Got some new 62 grain Barnes varmint grenades .The news just keps getting better. I will be after a field report on these for sure.

[hunter1947]

Game fence is the only way ,no questions asked ,the only way to stop them from getting hammered buy the big iron machines. look what they did hear on the inland hiway were elk would cross the hiway. they put up a fence along the hiway for about 30 kilometers between Cortney and campbell river.:roll:.

[CanuckShooter]

Game fence is the only way ,no questions asked ,the only way to stop them from getting hammered buy the big iron machines. look what they did hear on the inland hiway were elk would cross the hiway. they put up a fence along the hiway for about 30 kilometers between Cortney and campbell river.:roll:.


How about an elevated highway, up in the air like a bridge? Or how about putting the highway in a big pipe buried underground, like a tunnel? Or how about speed bumps, so it's impossible to go faster than 20kph? A game fence isn't the only way....just the cheapest.:roll: and the ugliest...

[bighornbob]

How about an elevated highway, up in the air like a bridge? Or how about putting the highway in a big pipe buried underground, like a tunnel? Or how about speed bumps, so it's impossible to go faster than 20kph? A game fence isn't the only way....just the cheapest.:roll: and the ugliest...

Hate to break it to you but a lot of people dont give a crap about the sheep or them being killed on the highway. The only people that really care are the outdoors people and the nature lovers.

I bet you way more people would support hiring more police officers in town or a shelter for the homeless or money for a MRI machine at the hospital then building a fence to save 10 sheep a year.

The government cant go spend millions of dollars on something they and the majority of people see as non-issue. Thats why feet are dragged and nobody wants to foot the bill. That's where we have to stand up and help because its not going to come from anywhere else. Get behind the Wild Sheep Society because they can push the ministry and ICBC to help them pay for a fence.

BHB

[happygilmore]

Hate to break it to you but a lot of people dont give a crap about the sheep or them being killed on the highway. The only people that really care are the outdoors people and the nature lovers.

I bet you way more people would support hiring more police officers in town or a shelter for the homeless or money for a MRI machine at the hospital then building a fence to save 10 sheep a year.

The government cant go spend millions of dollars on something they and the majority of people see as non-issue. Thats why feet are dragged and nobody wants to foot the bill. That's where we have to stand up and help because its not going to come from anywhere else. Get behind the Wild Sheep Society because they can push the ministry and ICBC to help them pay for a fence.

BHB

It's worth is for the native band to foot the bill since the gov't has started giving them the money from non-resident sheep hunt. Bidding starts at 50,000$ per sheep per year. I'd think they would want the heard to grow so they can get more quotas.

[bighornbob]

What makes that tag so valuable is that there is only one for a non-resident and one for a a resident via an LEH tag. If they were given more tags the quality of the rams would go down as more would be killed and then the price of the tag would go down.

BHB

[happygilmore]

so you think that if they gave our 3-4 non res tags that the rich yanks wouldnt cough it up? :cool:

[boxhitch]

It's worth is for the native band to foot the bill since the gov't has started giving them the money from non-resident sheep hunt. Bidding starts at 50,000$ per sheep per year. I'd think they would want the heard to grow so they can get more quotas.The sheep aren't the problem, its the highway. They get along fine til some speedy juicecan smacks them.
So the motorist will be paying for the fix, as should be.

Oh, and the herd is doing fine, and no , there won't be more permits.

[bighornbob]

Oh the americans would still buy the tags but they would not be get what they are getting for one tag.

Look at some of the US tags that have been auctioned off for years and if the huge rams are not being killed the value drops.

I just looked up the FNAWS site and saw the Alberta tag only went for 155,000 bucks. It useed to sell for over 300,000 every year and I beleive 450,000 one year. Why because they are only shooting high 190's maybe real low 200's. The high dollars were generated when you could shoot a 204 or a world record like a few years ago.

If the KIB keeps shooting monster rams like they have been the tag price will go up but not if they were to shoot 5 or 6 rams a year.

BHB

[daycort]

Only bad thing about a fence is that when the fence stops it creates a crossing funnel. Herd animals will walk along a fence until it sees the end and they usually jog around the corner post and into the open, in this case a hi-way. If critters are using a crossing for the past 300 hundred years then a funnel fence from both directions to a underground crossing would be good. the fence would not have to be that long either, maybe a half a km on either side of the underground crossing. I have seen this method in Montana and it looked pretty slick. But this method is only good for the areas where the ground is good enough for a 8 foot culvert. I hate fences, and maybe a reduction in speed limits and bigger warning signs would be good.

[freeman6]

Bigger signs don't work if people can't see the sheep.

Believe me, the folks doing 130 between the golf course turnoff and the Mt Paul turnoff don't see the sheep on the side of the road, or even on the road if they aren't looking.

I had one guy in a jacked up p/u pull out and pass me, in my car, as I was slowing down for sheep crossing through the passing lane into the north-bound slow lane. He managed to finger me with the hand that wasn't holding the cell phone, but he nearly spilled his truck when he looked back at the road and saw all the sheep! He should have seen the sheep before me because of his height advantage, but he didn't.

Because we as hunters are looking for animals, we see them. They don't really want to see the sheep, so their minds don't register that they are there. How many times has your wife spotted a sign for a "sale" in a store window that you never saw? You weren't looking for a "sale" sign, so you didn't see it.

We tend to see only what we want to. Its a human trait.

I don't know if fencing a short stretch will work. Look how far they had to stretch the fence out along Hwy 3 east of Grand Forks to keep the sheep and deer off the road. Fencing requires maintenance time and money as well. Improving the habitat on the mountainsides above the highway to the north and east might be a better payoff in the long term, for overall herd numbers and trophy quality, with fencing or underpass as secondary actions.