Double standards continue!!!

[carnivore]

https://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon/320262/OKIB-chief-says-Indigenous-hunting-rights-challenged-by-conservation-officers#320262

[AK-47]

They must be forced to use their traditional hunting tools when they embody their traditional hunting rights: to use bows only etc. And not modern compound bows but handmade bows made from the wood. When they are using firearms they have to be forced to follow common federal and provincial firearm and hunting law.

[338win mag]

It has gone too far already, they need to be stopped at this point. Blood starts boiling when I hear the mighty hunters shooting at night. A generation teaching the next generation complete and total disrespect for 4 legs as well as other 2 legs.

[rocksteady]

I will bet you whatever sum you wish that this will continue to escalate in their favour.

I like taking easy money

[whitlers]

Bunch of bullshit. We need a political party that will actually stand up to this mess. BC is doomed.

[Frank grimes]

Asking to see a status card seems perfectly reasonable to me. But what do I know

[rocksteady]

https://www.cranbrooktownsman.com/news/shift-in-perspective-indigenous-place-names-moving-canada-from-colonial-past/

[180grainer]

Wasn't there a group putting out big signs saying "respect cow moose"? Maybe they should start putting out signs saying "please respect lawful hunting regulations and seasons". And no doubt, all those Natives live well within a grocery store. If they really cared about wildlife, they wouldn't do this "just because they can".

[westcoaster]

Excellent news!
What that tells me is good to go!
Bucks or does anything goes! When the CO confronts you just refuse to show him your status card!

[REMINGTON JIM]

There SHOULD BE NO special indian traditional hunting rights ! Phuck them ! they have pretty much used up us whiteies and its time for it to stop ! I don't give a shit about any deals that were made years ago - things- times change and they need to too ! :mad:

JMO - RJ

[Surrey Boy]

If this upsets you, then start taking your own side.

[tigrr]

Castanet doesn't allow comments. To bad.
3% will own all hunting rights if we don't speak up soon.

[dakoda62]

whine whine whine.

[338win mag]

whine whine whine.
So long as its not in your backyard?

[GreyDog]

Until game laws can be applied to every one and until game laws are applied with the primary goal of maintaining healthy game populations rather than catering to various special interests, we will never have the healthy, balanced, wildlife populations we should have in BC. Indian poachers are just one of the problems wildlife faces. GD

[338win mag]

So long as the Governments ill defined policies are continued to be deciphered by the Court, we will always loose.
Who is we?
We are all the hunters who enjoy the same resource, and until the section 35 holders speak up to their respective Chief and council, nothing will happen.
Too many rights holders say nothing, they wouldn't say shit if they fell into a pile of it, some of them are on this site.

They think that if they kill everything then they will get everything, and they are not wrong.

The part they miss is the part where they have been privy to the massive racial strife that is coming for their respective Nation's.
This is the definition of greed, webster material.

[BgBlkDg]

There SHOULD BE NO special indian traditional hunting rights ! Phuck them ! they have pretty much used up us whiteies and its time for it to stop ! I don't give a shit about any deals that were made years ago - things- times change and they need to too ! :mad:

JMO - RJ

Says it all,IMHO

[BgBlkDg]

[QUOTE=338win mag;





















The part they miss is the part where they have been privy to the massive racial strife that is coming for their respective Nation's.
This is the definition of greed, webster material.[/QUOTE]

And this..........

[Downtown]

Frankly, the Natives are doing exactly the same as the majority of the population. Whine whine whine and blaming each other exactly as our Governments have it intended. Devide and Conquer, a strategy as old as the Hills.

The Root cause is our present and former Governments filled with ignorant and cowardly Politicians unwilling and to afraid to speak the Truth.

Fact is, Natives will never ever have Sovereign Rights over Reserves no matter what the interpretation is today ! History has shown the "Crown" never gives up anything, but will lie and cheat and do anything to hide this Fact.

A truly united Country can only be possible if the same Law applies to everyone equally.

Cheers

[blacktailslayer]

Well said.


There SHOULD BE NO special indian traditional hunting rights ! Phuck them ! they have pretty much used up us whiteies and its time for it to stop ! I don't give a shit about any deals that were made years ago - things- times change and they need to too ! :mad:

JMO - RJ

[Weatherby Fan]

For the last 40 or so years they have been shooting what they want when they want and with the lack of government support in this Province for Wildlife enhancement we are seeing the terrible results in the lack of animals in this province, throw in the lack of predator control and you have the perfect storm

somewhere along the lines we will have to fight back or have nothing at all for our future generations to hunt.......

[Arctic Lake]

WF Please let me know when the fight starts I will be there with you ! Where should I send some funds ? What can I do ?Arctic Lake

For the last 40 or so years they have been shooting what they want when they want and with the lack of government support in this Province for Wildlife enhancement we are seeing the terrible results in the lack of animals in this province, throw in the lack of predator control and you have the perfect storm

somewhere along the lines we will have to fight back or have nothing at all for our future generations to hunt.......

[Weatherby Fan]

WF Please let me know when the fight starts I will be there with you ! Where should I send some funds ? What can I do ?Arctic Lake

Thats the trouble A.L. if we say anything we're "racist white privileged trash" regardless of how wrong the situation is, I really don't know what, where or how to begin as a tax paying citizen, We all know NOT ONE POLITICIAN will say what needs to be said.

[huntingfamily]

If you haven't already, have a read of the BC Together for Wildlife Strategy, as well as look who is on the Council.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/plants-animals-ecosystems/wildlife/together-for-wildlife/strategy-development#phase3

[Arctic Lake]

Will take at look at you link !
Arctic Lake

If you haven't already, have a read of the BC Together for Wildlife Strategy, as well as look who is on the Council.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/plants-animals-ecosystems/wildlife/together-for-wildlife/strategy-development#phase3

[Surrey Boy]

Thats the trouble A.L. if we say anything we're "racist white privileged trash" regardless of how wrong the situation is, I really don't know what, where or how to begin as a tax paying citizen, We all know NOT ONE POLITICIAN will say what needs to be said.

Then embrace the label and press our rights. Appeasement and good faith have come to naught.

[Ed George]

This is the same fight that is being played out over the Salmon Allocation Policy (SAP) only with fish.

The Salmon Allocation Policy "SAP"
a) This policy is being totally rewritten after the Ahowsat decision for a "native commercial fishery for five native bands off the west coast of Vancouver Island" in a completely biased policy that does not recognize you the non-native public. This may get me called racist but it is anything but. DFO does not represent us as the public, the politicians only want re-election and to look like they care and the native bands obviously represent themselves, we need to be involved.
b) The federal government is including "UNDRIP" in this new policy even though it is not Canadian law.

The terms of reference are being rewritten by a committee chaired jointly by DFO representing the Federal Government and the Native bands and the Native bands obviously representing themselves. No one is at the table representing the non-native Canadians.

The Fraser River fishery and the Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance.
a) This is a group of dedicated people working to returning this fishery to its previous glory for future generations. The provincial BCWF had staff attend and monitor these meetings but that was where it stopped, (that is my understanding). This is predominantly a Region 2 fishery and Region 2 BCWF is now at the table. This is our public fishery, be it bar fishing, fly fishing, bottom bouncing or any other method you prefer, this is where the public fishery in the Fraser River is being fought for. This is not a fight between sectors, native rights vs. non native, but the battle to get recognition for the public fishery and fight for the recovery of the fish stocks.
b) This is your fishery and the fight includes you. There is a go fund me account set up for all to help, this is not looking for big dollar donations but for what you can afford. Be it $10 or $20 dollars or more it is your fishery and not the time to let others carry the load, GET INVOLVED!

The link to the gofundme listing is

ca.gofundme.com/f/save-the-public-fraser-river-fishery (https://ca.gofundme.com/f/save-the-public-fraser-river-fishery)

This is not a fight between sectors but between us, the public fishery and the politicians who are DFO's task masters.

I spent about 10 years working with the native bands here in the Fraser Valley as the Fraser River Peacemakers and have found that that was the one way that DFO could not play the sectors against each other.

[AK-47]

As for this particular case:
From one side there is a respect to those CO and RCMP in Okanagan but from another side they have limited power to the North of Smithers and even afraid to approach the FN when they hunt or blocking roads.

[scuba]

Can I “identify” as a status Indian? Hahaha

[IronNoggin]

This is the same fight that is being played out over the Salmon Allocation Policy (SAP) only with fish.

The Salmon Allocation Policy "SAP"
a) This policy is being totally rewritten after the Ahowsat decision for a "native commercial fishery for five native bands off the west coast of Vancouver Island" in a completely biased policy that does not recognize you the non-native public. This may get me called racist but it is anything but. DFO does not represent us as the public, the politicians only want re-election and to look like they care and the native bands obviously represent themselves, we need to be involved.

A bit of a read, however well documents the illegal (recognized) activity of the FN's once that racially based commercial fishery was put in place (see Section X Enforcement & Compliance Concerns page 21 forward).

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:cWZGXuK4Ruyj9xiEND7dwQ#

Cheers,
Nog

[grantk]

I bet there's no hesitation to show the status card when the cashier asks if eligible for tax exemption. Ridiculous.

[Redthies]

I think I’m going to apply for my own status card. If they deny me, I’ll just play the racial discrimination card. They are discriminating against me because I’m white...

[Weatherby Fan]

Wow racist thread l, being divided won’t change a darn thing, the article didn’t talk about poaching, shooting at night, shooting cows or does and certainly didn’t talk about not paying taxes because you have a status card, good opportunity for peoples nonsense to come out, sad, Divide away


You can spin the racist thread card all you want,

one of the men I admired most, worked with and learned from was native, he was an amazing individual because of who he was not because of his race

to me all people are equal and should be treated as such regardless of race, gender or where your from,

Our government has created a racist Environment in Canada and must fix it and not off the backs of fish, wildlife or tax dollars, its easy just treat everyone the same and have everyone live by the same rules/laws no exceptions.

[WhiteTailAB]

There SHOULD BE NO special indian traditional hunting rights ! Phuck them ! they have pretty much used up us whiteies and its time for it to stop ! I don't give a shit about any deals that were made years ago - things- times change and they need to too ! :mad:

JMO - RJ

Amen!!!!!!!

[grantk]

Wow racist thread l, being divided won’t change a darn thing, the article didn’t talk about poaching, shooting at night, shooting cows or does and certainly didn’t talk about not paying taxes because you have a status card, good opportunity for peoples nonsense to come out, sad, Divide away

Actually, the only driver of change is divisions and differences between groups.

Racist is a term used far too loosely and dangerously to discredit anyone who disagrees with the actions of these groups, and it is a cop-out to any meaningful discussion. While the rest of the country is busy doing-away with historical actual and perceived special rights and priviledges in the name of inclusiveness, equality and fairness, these groups attempt to fortify and expand their own special rights and privileges and distinguish themselves in the law from all other Canadians. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and that's it. For 99.9% of people, race is not relevant in opposing the well-established issues that you somehow call nonsense.

[Weatherby Fan]

Actually, the only driver of change is divisions and differences between groups.

Racist is a term used far too loosely and dangerously to discredit anyone who disagrees with the actions of these groups, and it is a cop-out to any meaningful discussion. While the rest of the country is busy doing-away with historical actual and perceived special rights and priviledges in the name of inclusiveness, equality and fairness, these groups attempt to fortify and expand their own special rights and privileges and distinguish themselves in the law from all other Canadians. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and that's it. For 99.9% of people, race is not relevant in opposing the well-established issues that you somehow call nonsense.

WOW very well said, thank you

[whitlers]

Actually, the only driver of change is divisions and differences between groups.

Racist is a term used far too loosely and dangerously to discredit anyone who disagrees with the actions of these groups, and it is a cop-out to any meaningful discussion. While the rest of the country is busy doing-away with historical actual and perceived special rights and priviledges in the name of inclusiveness, equality and fairness, these groups attempt to fortify and expand their own special rights and privileges and distinguish themselves in the law from all other Canadians. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and that's it. For 99.9% of people, race is not relevant in opposing the well-established issues that you somehow call nonsense.

Very well said.

[jac]

Actually, the only driver of change is divisions and differences between groups.

Racist is a term used far too loosely and dangerously to discredit anyone who disagrees with the actions of these groups, and it is a cop-out to any meaningful discussion. While the rest of the country is busy doing-away with historical actual and perceived special rights and priviledges in the name of inclusiveness, equality and fairness, these groups attempt to fortify and expand their own special rights and privileges and distinguish themselves in the law from all other Canadians. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and that's it. For 99.9% of people, race is not relevant in opposing the well-established issues that you somehow call nonsense.


I totally agree!!!

[rocksteady]

Our federal and provincial governments, by accepting and declaring they will fix all that is bad, under the premise of UNDRIP, will continue until it becomes a election platform that Joe public can either accept or not.

Both govs are signing and handing out blank cheques (some monetary, some "rights" that no others can have))

[Redthies]

Actually, the only driver of change is divisions and differences between groups.

Racist is a term used far too loosely and dangerously to discredit anyone who disagrees with the actions of these groups, and it is a cop-out to any meaningful discussion. While the rest of the country is busy doing-away with historical actual and perceived special rights and priviledges in the name of inclusiveness, equality and fairness, these groups attempt to fortify and expand their own special rights and privileges and distinguish themselves in the law from all other Canadians. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and that's it. For 99.9% of people, race is not relevant in opposing the well-established issues that you somehow call nonsense.

Well said.

i spent the a few days over Xmas at the family farm and tried to explain to my 20 something nieces about the reality of equality.

If we truly want to create an equitable society, it must give EQUAL rights to ALL people of ALL races and genders in ALL situations.

I tried to explain the dangers of the “pendulum” of equality swinging way past the center point, and how the current government is pushing things this direction, but I won’t hold my breath. At least they let me finish my voicing my opinion, and hopefully they will educate themselves on the issues before blindly following the white guilt movement.

[VLD43]

This whole equity topic is something that has been well thought out by the political class. The Liberals and others are looking to pander to the low hanging fruit, or better said, the low achievers in society. They can gain a lot of traction at the ballot box from all those who blame everything and everyone but themselves for the poor choices they make in life. In order for this country to be competitive in this world we need to promote the best and encourage all others to be the best they can be. The entitled class don't see it that way. If all these people want equity, then lets get back to a meritocracy and let the cream rise to the top.

[pro 111]

Biggest problem is the government wont manage the reasourses in this province properly. The fighting really boils down to a lack of game in certain areas. BC is a huge province with so much potential for the game everyone chases to thrive. Yet we let the grizzly bears , the wolfes , cougars etc chew it all up.
As well as farmers in the peace region and probably other regions brainwashing the government into thinking we need mule deer doe seasons . Open season for cow elk. on and on a guy could rant. If native and non native s could just work together for one common goal this province could rebound like no other. The Taltan are on the right path to reopening up the grizzly bear hunt. All the power to them. Hopefully other bands will see the light and jump on board. Right now we are all doing what the government wants. Fighting amongst each other and drifting a wedge between the different cultures like never before. Its easy to be racist on this site . Its also easy to see why there is so much push back from native bands throughout the province. I come from Haida Gwaii and have bin travelling highway 16 hunting for 25 years. It was normal even 15 years ago to see 20 to 30 moose along the highway from prince rupert to fort st john . Then 100 mule deer on the drive through Hudsons Hope.
Not to mention all the deer around Smithers to Prince George. The habitat looks the same . Farmers fields. Skeena River. Grassy roadsides . But where is all the wildlife?? If you were born and raised in a place where you could always go out for a drive and get your moose for you and your family and now you cant because there just not there . Pretty sure you would be going out of your way to make a fuss. Not really taking one side or the other but when resourses get thin theres always gonna be fight. Maybe its the Rich Yanks and forieners that can **** right off and leave BC alone for the residents and Aboriginals . Or chop the quotas in half and the outfitters can double the price of the hunt. If a guy will pay 50k for a sheep he will pay 100k. Yea outfitters kill wolves. But they also kill a shit ton of game..Lots of it gets fed to dogs or left on the sidehill.

Bottom line . Too many people trying to access not enough wildlife. Theres gonna be a fight until we all smarten up and work together to achieve the common goal . There is room for all with some people that have the brains to make it happen . And that sure as shit aint the NDP.
My opinion.

[Surrey Boy]

This whole equity topic is something that has been well thought out by the political class. The Liberals and others are looking to pander to the low hanging fruit, or better said, the low achievers in society. They can gain a lot of traction at the ballot box from all those who blame everything and everyone but themselves for the poor choices they make in life. In order for this country to be competitive in this world we need to promote the best and encourage all others to be the best they can be. The entitled class don't see it that way. If all these people want equity, then lets get back to a meritocracy and let the cream rise to the top.

The problem is that free markets are racist.

[quadrakid]

Where were all the white hunters when the "pendulum " of equality was tilted our way for four hundred years?

[quadrakid]

Do not get me wrong, i agree we should all be equal under the law but the reality is you can not shit on people for four hundred years and not expect to pay a price.

[VLD43]

Do not get me wrong, i agree we should all be equal under the law but the reality is you can not shit on people for four hundred years and not expect to pay a price.

So this bags the obvious question. If not for colonization would the people mentioned above have all the modern conveniences and technology they presently have. Because I can tell you based on how the world works, if they didn't evolve like other nations, they would have been invaded or overtaken by a stronger nation. It's just the way the world works. Just look at what's happening in Hong Kong or better yet any of the small minoritys in China. Lots of real atrocity's and human rights issues there. The only reason we are paying "the price" now is because we have a weak Liberal Government in power.

[338win mag]

This whole equity topic is something that has been well thought out by the political class. The Liberals and others are looking to pander to the low hanging fruit, or better said, the low achievers in society. They can gain a lot of traction at the ballot box from all those who blame everything and everyone but themselves for the poor choices they make in life. In order for this country to be competitive in this world we need to promote the best and encourage all others to be the best they can be. The entitled class don't see it that way. If all these people want equity, then lets get back to a meritocracy and let the cream rise to the top.
I believe this to be very true^^^^^
We are turning our backs on Capitalism and marching toward Communism, the cream won't rise to the top under those conditions, but yes.
Anyone who has ever had the bosses stupid kid as a boss understands this.

[338win mag]

For those who don't like to read, just go to chapter 12, we are there now.
https://www.indigenousguardianstoolkit.ca/

[Surrey Boy]

Do not get me wrong, i agree we should all be equal under the law but the reality is you can not shit on people for four hundred years and not expect to pay a price.

Tacit admission that war is being waged upon us. We need to win.

[358mag]

Where were all the white hunters when the "pendulum " of equality was tilted our way for four hundred years?

Guess same place as , where were all the F150 's and high powered rifles 400 years ago ? talk about a "pendulum" of equality swing .

[Imdone]

The FNs just hate all the great things the Invaders have brought......

Like gill nets, power boats, F350 trucks and quads, Electricity, rifles, round things called wheels.

[Bubbacanuck]

I for one am happy to hear that the CO's are pissing in their cornflakes. Hold them accountable. Call in the RCMP. This whole BS about being above the law in Canada is sickening. I don't care if you ceded or not, you are part of Canada whether you like it or not.

[LBM]

I for one am happy to hear that the CO's are pissing in their cornflakes. Hold them accountable. Call in the RCMP. This whole BS about being above the law in Canada is sickening. I don't care if you ceded or not, you are part of Canada whether you like it or not.

Huh in another thread you complain about inforcement now you want it.

[tuner]

The FNs just hate all the great things the Invaders have brought......

Like gill nets, power boats, F350 trucks and quads, Electricity, rifles, round things called wheels.

Don’t forget the magical liquid elixirs, they seemed to take to that like a baby to a tit.

[quadrakid]

The FNs just hate all the great things the Invaders have brought......

Like gill nets, power boats, F350 trucks and quads, Electricity, rifles, round things called wheels.

You forgot smallpox,racism and serial child sexual predators.

[Surrey Boy]

You forgot smallpox,racism and serial child sexual predators.

Most hate crime and sexual abuse allegations are false, perpetrated by scammers like yourself.

[wideopenthrottle]

no wonder so many are confused by equality....because it is a new illusion to chase after....what happened to "we are all different" "we are a multicultural society based on mutual respect and admiration of our differences".....this is how i was "programmed" we are a powerful society but the strength comes from our diversity...we are being manipulated to aspire to all be the same while giant wedges are being driven through our differences.....result is mass confusion about what is "right" my "programming" tells me all lives matter but that is being labeled a racist slogan by the media...i get flack for saying things like "we are not all equal" (and that is ok) and "humans are inherently tribal" (in some order of priority we look after family first then friends then clan then community) "being different is not a bad thing." "We are individuals first".

[Bubbacanuck]

Huh in another thread you complain about inforcement now you want it.

I want fairness. I want FN to be treated the same as everyone else. where did I complain about enforcement? If you are speaking about trail cams being banned in Arizona, not sure where I said anything about not supporting enforcement. But good luck enforcing that haha. Anyways, you seem confused...

[LBM]

I want fairness. I want FN to be treated the same as everyone else. where did I complain about enforcement? If you are speaking about trail cams being banned in Arizona, not sure where I said anything about not supporting enforcement. But good luck enforcing that haha. Anyways, you seem confused...
Your right wasnt you i appoligize . I to feel everyone should be treated the same.

[VLD43]

no wonder so many are confused by equality....because it is a new illusion to chase after....what happened to "we are all different" "we are a multicultural society based on mutual respect and admiration of our differences".....this is how i was "programmed" we are a powerful society but the strength comes from our diversity...we are being manipulated to aspire to all be the same while giant wedges are being driven through our differences.....result is mass confusion about what is "right" my "programming" tells me all lives matter but that is being labeled a racist slogan by the media...i get flack for saying things like "we are not all equal" (and that is ok) and "humans are inherently tribal" (in some order of priority we look after family first then friends then clan then community) "being different is not a bad thing." "We are individuals first".

Your comments are very valid. Being different is not a bad thing, but using that difference to play the victim card is wrong. The victim status thing seems to be the play of the day and a political move. Many of these "Victims" have made a lot of bad choices in life or lack any form of motivation to move forward. It is rather telling that a lot of successful people have overcome many hurtles in life to succeed. They never give up. In my opinion many of these victims would do well to take a serious look at their past actions, admit their shortcomings and look for coaching or ways to move forward. When I hear some of their grievances, the first question I have, is what did they or their community or group do to rectify the situation other than blame someone else?

[quadrakid]

Your comments are very valid. Being different is not a bad thing, but using that difference to play the victim card is wrong. The victim status thing seems to be the play of the day and a political move. Many of these "Victims" have made a lot of bad choices in life or lack any form of motivation to move forward. It is rather telling that a lot of successful people have overcome many hurtles in life to succeed. They never give up. In my opinion many of these victims would do well to take a serious look at their past actions, admit their shortcomings and look for coaching or ways to move forward. When I hear some of their grievances, the first question I have, is what did they or their community or group do to rectify the situation other than blame someone else?

This is very easy to say but i wonder how you would have turned out if you had been raped multiple times by multiple fat priests?

[358mag]

This is very easy to say but i wonder how you would have turned out if you had been raped multiple times by multiple fat priests?
That should be taken up with the Catholic Church . Many a White boys were raped by fat priests too .

[tuner]

That should be taken up with the Catholic Church . Many a White boys were raped by fat priests too .

Lol,so true.

[338win mag]

This is very easy to say but i wonder how you would have turned out if you had been raped multiple times by multiple fat priests?
Ouch.
I doubt any of these guys are fat Priests, I also doubt whether any of them had anything to do with harming any indigenous people in any way.
No Citizen of Canada should be made responsible for the historical actions of Government or Church, its fundamentally wrong to do so.

[VLD43]

This is very easy to say but i wonder how you would have turned out if you had been raped multiple times by multiple fat priests?

I agree with your comment. Very valid. I have always stated that the Catholic Church has a lot to answer for. As 358 has stated, many of a number of races have been victims of the church. But not all have used this as an excuse to not move forward. Add to this all those who have been harmed by their own, while their own race or clan stand by and seem to take no collective action from within to hold their own accountable. The whole thing is a very sad state of affairs, and I have a lot of understanding and sympathy for the victims to a point. What I don't agree with is politicizing of the situation and victim status, like they were powerless as a society to make changes from within as apposed to blaming others. There are those who have stopped living in the past and have moved forward. Some very successfully. There are others who refuse to move on. When everything is said and done, we live in a country that has vast opportunity for those willing to work hard. Unfortunately though, the cancel culture has presently made it their mission to not engage in any meaningful conversation on a way ahead. Their narrative or perspective is the only conversation allowed. This has created a lot of resentment among a lot of people, who at present are sitting back and waiting for things to change direction or go off the rails. This situation is challenging are democracy and is dangerous. Sure hope that cooler heads prevail and we get back to allowing differing or dissenting opinions to be heard without fear of criticism. That is how free speech and a real democracy works.

[338win mag]

Its about the money.

[VLD43]

Its about the money.

Absolutely and that is what makes this whole thing so controversial.

[fozzy]

I bet there's no hesitation to show the status card when the cashier asks if eligible for tax exemption. Ridiculous.

Instantly out and with a smirk

[butthead]

so if i identify as a fn
that gives me the same
rights to hunting and fishing
makes one wonder

[BimmerBob]

Has anyone considered the fact that we seem to be in a time of "participation ribbons" in our society due to the push of the social justice warriors while at the same time, the very same people, push the "First Nations" issue?

If it is participation that is the "new normal" then would it also be time for us to become a society of "participants" and stop the push that anyone of any shape, colour or creed is somehow "First" and can use that status to be allowed more of less than full participation under the exact same rules for everyone?

Every "participant" should be able and willing to participate equally in the societies taxation schemes, laws, health care, education system, hunting/fishing regulations, and all other expectations of a society of "participants". Anything less is unjust and not likely to work for long.

[Surrey Boy]

Has anyone considered the fact that we seem to be in a time of "participation ribbons" in our society due to the push of the social justice warriors while at the same time, the very same people, push the "First Nations" issue?

If it is participation that is the "new normal" then would it also be time for us to become a society of "participants" and stop the push that anyone of any shape, colour or creed is somehow "First" and can use that status to be allowed more of less than full participation under the exact same rules for everyone?

Every "participant" should be able and willing to participate equally in the societies taxation schemes, laws, health care, education system, hunting/fishing regulations, and all other expectations of a society of "participants". Anything less is unjust and not likely to work for long.

The West needs to be weakened before it is conquered. Mediocrity and passivity are key to that.

[mikeman20]

Double standards will continue until you stand up and stop it.

They get zero pushback from the people, aside from a few angry posts on obscure echochamber forums, and they get the special privileges based on their race.

Pretty damn big benefit for zero cost!

[Rob Chipman]

"They get zero pushback from the people, aside from a few angry posts on obscure echochamber forums,...."

vs:

For those who don't like to read, just go to chapter 12, we are there now.

https://www.indigenousguardianstoolkit.ca/

What mikeman20 says is pretty accurate. Zero pushback.

And what 338winmag links to really needs to have more people look at it. Again, here's the link: https://www.indigenousguardianstoolkit.ca/

There are big changes in the wind and most of the people on this thread are missing a hell of a good game.

I don't think we have anything close to the quality that Wildlife Guardians website. It's unbelievably professional and well thought out (and full props to 338winmag, because he's always providing some great info that is right on point).

There are enough Indigenous people in this province who know what they want, have a very solid plan to achieve it and who are committed to it that they are making some very significant headway. Hunters, anglers and all other outdoor recreationalists in BC under-estimate the degree of change on the horizon at their (our) peril.

Forget about yourself. If you want your kids, your grandkids, and generations down the line not even born yet to have access to the BC land base in order to do the things that meant so much to you there is a requirement that you get in the game. Do whatever you can, even if its not huge. Ed George is making a great contribution when he links to the Gofundme page ca.gofundme.com/f/save-the-public-fraser-river-fishery (https://ca.gofundme.com/f/save-the-public-fraser-river-fishery) and says its' "not the time to let others carry the load, GET INVOLVED!"


FNs have skill, money, law and social license on their side. They're also often better educated in the facts of the issue than non-Indigenous hunters/anglers. They've been waging this fight in BC for well over 100 years (even if you didn't notice it the whole way through).

Again, underestimate them at your peril. It's time we recognized that we (resident hunters and anglers) do indeed under-estimate Indigenous peoples ALL THE TIME.


They are more skillful at staying on task and advocating for their rights than the hunting and angling community. There's no question about that. If it weren't the case we wouldn't be bitching about the progress they're making. It's time to stop bitching and start figuring out what Indigenous people are doing, why they're doing it, and what else is really going on.

They are better funded than the hunting and angling community. Yes, lots of the money comes from taxes, but lots of it also comes from corporations and NGOs. I understand this one will face some resistance but...we're all going to have to get off our fat wallets. Talk on HuntingBC is cheap, but we all know it takes money to buy whiskey and cigarettes. Again, here's the Link to the GoFundMe from Ed George :

ca.gofundme.com/f/save-the-public-fraser-river-fishery (https://ca.gofundme.com/f/save-the-public-fraser-river-fishery)

The law is preponderantly on the side of Indigenous people. It's time to get up to speed on that. Everybody reading this thread has witnessed, with their own eyes, the march that indigenous people have made through the courts to get us to where we are now. We all have opinions about how things should be, or how we'd like them to be, but let's get really clear on this:

Saying that Indigenous people should only be able to exercise their traditional rights with traditional tools like stone tipped arrows, and that they should not be able to use high powered rifles, F-150a and optics is the same as saying we should be able to run all our cars on unicorn farts. It's an adorable opinion with no connection to reality. Canadian judges, all the way up to the Supreme Court, have already decided that issue. That ship has sailed. Let it go and let's get ready to fight the next battle, and recognize that that battle will be waged, in large part, in court.

Indigenous peoples also have social license on their side. Hunters and anglers in BC? Not so much. Want to argue that I'm wrong? Go ahead. Then tell me in the same breath that Chad Day and the Tahltan are our best hope of getting a g-bear hunt reinstated.


Quadrakid is correct when he points out that you can't shit on people for 400 years and not expect to pay a price. Part of that price being paid is giving FNs more social license. They've got it, and they've got it because they earned it. You may not like it, you may not think it's right, but it's a fact.


I think it's time for all of us to attempt to get on the same page and recognize what is really going on.

1) Indigenous people are looking out for themselves (more power to them);
2) The government has proven, time and again, that they aren't our friends;
3) The government has proven, time and again, that they prefer to divide the population against itself rather than solve the problem;
4) A lot of what Indigenous activists say, including those things that often piss non-Indigenous people off the most, is actually stuff that most hunters and anglers would tend to get behind if we didn't immediately buy into the idea that Fns are our prime enemy (hint: they are not);
5) If we don't get in the game and start influencing (ie, pressuring) government to do something this will all end in tears....on our side.



We've got a new government. We've got a new batch of MLAs and cabinet minsters. Our politicians are very clear that they are going to proceed in the direction of more reconciliation, UNDRIP and increased power in Indigenous hands. The province and the feds deal with FNs on a government to government basis, and aren't about to stop. We don't get to sit at those tables. If you want influence you need to step up now and get involved, and you need to stop giving any opposition any sort of bulletin board quotes.

Here's my ask:

If you live in Region 2 I need you to contact me to tell me that you are willing to meet with your MLA and educate them on why they need to represent your interests better and then tell them how to do it. You don't need to know the words, or the talking points, or the way to go about it.

You just need to commit to meeting (right now, probably over Zoom) your MLA. If you've got a buddy or 4 who will join, even better. PM me through here or send it to my email: rob@robchipman.net

Or....as Mikeman20 said, you can keep bitching to an smaller and smaller group of people in an obscure echo chamber forum. Your call.