Labs and packs

[leadpillproductions]

Got my self a new puppy . What age should I start to pack him .with his own gear

[Foxton Gundogs]

There joints are not set till a year old or more packing should be fine at about 4 months but no heavy weight.

[mastercaster]

The growth plates of male dogs generally close at 18-24 months of age. Females a little sooner. That is why it's recommended not to neuter male dogs until they're close to two years of age. Fixing a dog early can cause the growth plates to close more slowly which could translate into a leggier dog.

That being said, it doesn't mean a dog can't be carrying some weighted packs but just like a teen growing up it's far safer to be lifting lighter weights than sub-maximal ones. Just ease into it.

[leadpillproductions]

Thanks for info

[decker9]

They say no more then 20% of the dogs weight after 2 years old. My dog is usually in decent shape in the fall, but even at 75-80 lbs, I try not to load her with more then 10-12 lbs, unless it’s coming out heavy. Most important thing is, making it fun for them. Iv had a couple pack outs when I was getting the “WTF is this look” lol.

I started my dog out at 1 year old, with 2-3-4 lbs (with treats of course). Stalking spring bears was great training I found.

[35rem]

The growth plates of male dogs generally close at 18-24 months of age. Females a little sooner.

Most growth plates in dogs actually close a lot earlier; 6-12 months (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333118590_Musculoskeletal_Development_of_the_Puppy _Birth_to_Twelve_Months). It also depends on the breed: earlier in a Chihuahua than a Great Dane. I do agree with others that you need to start with a light pack and gradually increase both weight and carrying distance.

[mastercaster]

Most growth plates in dogs actually close a lot earlier; 6-12 months (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333118590_Musculoskeletal_Development_of_the_Puppy _Birth_to_Twelve_Months). It also depends on the breed: earlier in a Chihuahua than a Great Dane. I do agree with others that you need to start with a light pack and gradually increase both weight and carrying distance.

Thanks for posting that article! I did notice, though, that the majority of bird dog breeds are between a year and as long as 18 months for growth plate closure. I know a lot of the griff breeders in NA, mine included, will rescind your health warranty (usually 30 months) if you spay or neuter your dog before 18 months of age. That's why I made the comment about how long it takes the growth plates to close. I figure they didn't want you coming back complaining to them that your dog needed TPLO surgeries if they could have been avoided by not fixing your pup too early.

[35rem]

I did notice, though, that the majority of bird dog breeds are between a year and as long as 18 months for growth plate closure. I know a lot of the griff breeders in NA, mine included, will rescind your health warranty (usually 30 months) if you spay or neuter your dog before 18 months of age.

If you are suggesting bird dog breeds somehow differ from other breeds with regards to growth plate closure I cannot agree with you. I have spent more than 30 years performing orthopedic surgery (including TPLOs) on dogs and can assure you bird dog growth plates close at the same time as other breeds of similar size. I have never seen any study showing otherwise.
While I agree with the recommendation to delay spaying/neutering in breeds over 20kg until at least 1 year old there is no compelling reason (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7412743/) to wait until 18 months.

Also bear in mind the original study (https://www.vin.com/members/cms/document/default.aspx?objecttypeid=2&template=articleview&objectid=1900406&said=1) was done in Golden Retrievers. While it showed a benefit for the prevention of joint disorders and lymphoma with delayed neutering of males, the situation was more complicated in females. Late spaying resulted in less joint issues, but a 4-fold increase in hemangiosarcomas; an aggressive cancer as well as an increased risk for mast cell tumours, an another cancer.

None of the studies have followed these dogs to the end of life, so we do not know yet if late spaying will lead to more mammary cancer for instance.

[mastercaster]

If you are suggesting bird dog breeds somehow differ from other breeds with regards to growth plate closure I cannot agree with you.

Not suggesting this at all. What I was suggesting was that most waterfowl breed dogs fall into the large dog category where the growth plates can take up to 18 months to fully close.

[35rem]

growth plates can take up to 18 months to fully close.

The only growth plate that can stay open that long is the iliac crest. The rest close at or before 13 months even in large breeds.

[Dutch]

Thank you 35Rem for the info.Never thought about it much spaying ,neutering when to do it .In my experience it has not made any significant difference and that is not to say the science is wrong.None of my first 4 labs and golden retriever lived past 11 fixed or not ,but the last was neutered at 6 months lived to 15 so I guess in the long run there was a gene pool in him that was exemplary .Thanks again for you're explanation .

[labguy]

Thank you 35Rem for the info.Never thought about it much spaying ,neutering when to do it .In my experience it has not made any significant difference and that is not to say the science is wrong.None of my first 4 labs and golden retriever lived past 11 fixed or not ,but the last was neutered at 6 months lived to 15 so I guess in the long run there was a gene pool in him that was exemplary .Thanks again for you're explanation .

Genes are for sure a big part of longevity but the early spay/neuter issue isn’t only about life span. There are a whole host of other structural issues associated with early spay/neuter before growth plates completely close.

[kootenaycarver]

Thanks 35Rem, my 8 month old Lab is "not" looking forward to his first birthday.