Cougar Dog Training

[chinook150]

Hello:
I am buying a pair of pups (8 weeks) next weekend with the intention of training for cougar hunting. Does anyone on the forum have any suggestions for a reputable cougar scent / urine brand? I do not have the benefit of running my dogs with an experienced guide and think that this is my best bet on training them. For what its worth I am buying one bluetick and one Mountain cur (I am not comfortable using one dog). Appreciate the assistance.
Steve

[dougan]

I’m no hound expert but coons are a good start . Not running your dogs with other dogs isn’t the worst thing they won’t pick up bad habits. Be patient while they are young walk them on hot track once they believe there is something there they catch on . Shoot a coon drag it for a ways and put it in a tree.

[chinook150]

Good idea, will the dog know to pick up a cougar trail if he trains on coon?

[dougan]

From what I’ve seen as long as you walk the track out with your young dogs they with start believing in what they are fallowing . Good time to give them shit if they stray on ungulate tracks as well.

[dougan]

Walk them on track off leash I should have mentioned

[bigneily]

Stray house cats , but you didn't hear it from me

[jlirot]

If you'll take me out cougar hunting - I'll work on supplying you raccoons. :-) I seem to have a knack for catching them in my live trap in vancouver.

[Huntingtyler123]

Take them to the bar lol
(cougar joke)

[crassul]

As mentioned above, walk them on hot trails, they will pick it up very quick. Track collars and obedience training before heading out.
I ran bear dogs a few years back, the hound dogs know which trail to follow very quick.

[LBM]

Hello:
I am buying a pair of pups (8 weeks) next weekend with the intention of training for cougar hunting. Does anyone on the forum have any suggestions for a reputable cougar scent / urine brand? I do not have the benefit of running my dogs with an experienced guide and think that this is my best bet on training them. For what its worth I am buying one bluetick and one Mountain cur (I am not comfortable using one dog). Appreciate the assistance.
Steve

Why are you not comfortable using one dog.

[Dannybuoy]

Why are you not comfortable using one dog.
If he isn't , he should be ..... young dog on cougar = lunch . None of the experienced hound guys that I know of will let a single dog on a scent experienced hound or pup

[tomcat]

Yes, one dog on a cougar will often mean one dead dog. Two is the absolute minimum but I prefered 3 or 4. If the cat fights, the other dog or dogs will generally protect one another as the cat goes after one.

[firebird]

Have you got a tracking/track train system?

[firebird]

You could also check out biggamehoundsmen

[chinook150]

Why are you not comfortable using one dog.

what if cougar attacks? I feel like its less likely to attack two dogs.

[chinook150]

Have you got a tracking/track train system?

Not yet, plan to just buy gps collar

[LBM]

So dannybouy and Tomcat how many dogs have you had killed when letting a single dog go on a cat track, and what were the circumstances.

[BRvalley]

Why are you not comfortable using one dog.


https://i.imgur.com/xGz5fn4.jpg

[LBM]

https://i.imgur.com/xGz5fn4.jpg

So your saying more is better since you have multiple rods out. What do you do if get a bite on more then one rod.

[Dannybuoy]

So dannybouy and Tomcat how many dogs have you had killed when letting a single dog go on a cat track, and what were the circumstances.
I dont run hounds but know several cat hunters with more years experience than you have years on the planet . A fellow that was training a young dog , bluetick if I recall asked my bro-inlaw (G)if he could tag along on the next hunt as G had experienced hounds .... the fellow got to the meeting place early and let his young dog on the tracks before the others arrived .... they found where the bluetick had "caught" the cat and it's remains .
It's just common knowledge or common sense among cat hunters ....at least in the Okanagan ... maybe not in your area

[Dannybuoy]

https://i.imgur.com/xGz5fn4.jpg
I missed that BR .... and I bit ��

[tomcat]

I've never hunted a single dog on cougar but have had several dogs killed while hunting a couple together, thus I prefer 3 or more for the reason that the dogs, if used to working together, will help each other out in a ground battle with the cat. Even with more than three dogs on a cougar I've lost a 1/2 dozen or so dogs to cougar over the 25 years I actively hunted them..

[firebird]

Not yet, plan to just buy gps collar

You would appreciate a combo unit or 2 separate units, over just a gps collar IMO

Mine know to the tone means come back, most of them will turn around and backtrack out. Saved them and my butt a lot of times.

And obviously the shock is for trash or if they don’t respond at first to the tone.

[LBM]

I dont run hounds but know several cat hunters with more years experience than you have years on the planet . A fellow that was training a young dog , bluetick if I recall asked my bro-inlaw (G)if he could tag along on the next hunt as G had experienced hounds .... the fellow got to the meeting place early and let his young dog on the tracks before the others arrived .... they found where the bluetick had "caught" the cat and it's remains .
It's just common knowledge or common sense among cat hunters ....at least in the Okanagan ... maybe not in your area

You dont run hounds so no experience, ok thanks

[LBM]

I've never hunted a single dog on cougar but have had several dogs killed while hunting a couple together, thus I prefer 3 or more for the reason that the dogs, if used to working together, will help each other out in a ground battle with the cat. Even with more than three dogs on a cougar I've lost a 1/2 dozen or so dogs to cougar over the 25 years I actively hunted them..

You have never run a single hound,yet say its dangerous, but you have lost several when running more then one sounds like thats more dangerous. Some times to many dogs can block the escape route for the dog in front
causing him to be caught by the cat. What were the circumstances to cause you to loose so many dogs, why catching so many on the ground, no trees, cliffy country or was it human caused not tying dogs up at the tree.

[LBM]

what if cougar attacks? I feel like its less likely to attack two dogs.
As you see various opinions some from experience some from not. In trailing some times 2 dogs can help each other for they are competing against each other more.
When alone if a dog wants to trail he has to figure things out on his own so many benifits there as well.
Best of luck on which ever you decide, be safe and hope the dogs are as well. Lots of other dangers out there besides the things your chasing.

[tracker]

If your dogs barks trail will help a lot, we put bells on there collars ,just so it sounds like alot more commotion coming behind the cat . keep those dogs safe they are your huntin buddies!!!

[tomcat]

You have never run a single hound,yet say its dangerous, but you have lost several when running more then one sounds like thats more dangerous. Some times to many dogs can block the escape route for the dog in front
causing him to be caught by the cat. What were the circumstances to cause you to loose so many dogs, why catching so many on the ground, no trees, cliffy country or was it human caused not tying dogs up at the tree. Go get some extensive experience hunting pet and cattle killing cats in the Lillooet area then get back to me with knowlegable comments.

[Dannybuoy]

Go get some extensive experience hunting pet and cattle killing cats in the Lillooet area then get back to me with knowlegable comments.
That's a good point tomcat ....maybe LBM 's experience or knowledge is based on a few cats that have been treed so many times it's automatic , heck he probably runs Schnauzers or Chihuahuas ��

[LBM]

Go get some extensive experience hunting pet and cattle killing cats in the Lillooet area then get back to me with knowlegable comments.

Maybe lillooet cats are meaner, but have run a fair number of cats that have killed live stock and pets, and wounded by humans.
So what are the circumstances that led to the lose of so many of your dogs?

[tomcat]

Maybe lillooet cats are meaner, but have run a fair number of cats that have killed live stock and pets, and wounded by humans.
So what are the circumstances that led to the lose of so many of your dogs? I don'y really know but suspect exposure to single cattle dogs and rural pets out on the range. One dog vs one cougar, poor chance for the dog unless it runs away fast, 2 or MORE dogs better chance for holding cat at bay or Up a tree. Have you ever seen a cat mix with the dogs on the ground. It will go for a dog then a second dog will hit the ass end of the cat and it will then swing on this dog and then the first dog or another will go for cat. This procedure is what forces a cat up the tree if it is initially reluctant to climb.

[horshur]

Hunt your dogs...you hunt enough, long enough,eventually bad luck will find you.

[tracker]

Hunt your dogs...you hunt enough, long enough,eventually bad luck will find you.

Very true, but usually the owner of the dog effed up some how to get his dog in trouble.

[tomcat]

Very true, but usually the owner of the dog effed up some how to get his dog in trouble. BS, your comment shows your inexperience.

[tracker]

BS, your comment shows your inexperience.

Did a hit a nerve haha Are you feeling guilty about something?

[digger dogger]

BS, your comment shows your inexperience.

I’m with horsur.

I think everyone should experience owning hounds, then can can actually flap about shot they know.

[bighornbob]

Never owned hounds, been on one hunt and never saw a fresh track, know a few guys with tons of hound experience.

That being said lets just look at common sense for a second. A cougar is a killing machine, teeth and claws meant for ripping flesh. If a 130 pound cat grabs a single 65 pound dog its not even a close fight. It will be over in literally seconds.

So that being said, if said cat decides to fight for what ever reason its not going top end well for said dogs. Even two dogs have been known to be killed. It will take one second for that cat to grab the spine of the dog and its over. 2nd dog comes in a second later and guess what he gets the same thing as the first dog.

Heard a story of an outfitter down south (Penticton/Princeton area) running one dog. He came upon his dead dog killed by a cat. He went home and grabbed two more dogs (not sure why he only had one the first time). Let the two dogs go on the cat track and found those tow dogs dead. Went and borrowed another two hounds from a buddy and released on the cat. Those two dogs were also killed. I think they gave up after that. I think they assumed it was an old cat that was unable to tree for whatever reason and the cats only choice was to stay on the ground and fight.

You can plan and hope for the best but shit can sometimes go sideways. You could run one dog your whole life and never have a problem and you can run a bunch and still have dogs die. A cat bite in one spot results in a few stiches, same bite an inch over and you have a crushed vertebra.

Took a driving course through work taught by a RMCP crash reconstructionist. Told us a story about one of his crash scenes. A guy driving like 40km hour hits a patch of ice slides sideways and hits a large tree square on the side of the car right between the doors where your shoulder strap connects to the frame. Guy was killed instantly. He said 99 times out of a hundred the guy walks away from the crash with only a headache. Guy wasn’t going fast, wearing his belt doing everything right, but cars are not meant to be hit in that spot by a narrow object like a tree. Cop said head on or quarter panel guys walks away. Earlier in the course cop asked who had ever been in an instance where you thought back and said “F**k that was close” and nothing happened. Well he said your number wasn’t called that day. That guy hitting the tree at just the right spot had his number called. The exact same thing can happen with hounds.

BHB

[tomcat]

Very well put BHB

[tracker]

[QUOTE=bighornbob;2211303]Never owned hounds, been on one hunt and never saw a fresh track, know a few guys with tons of hound experience.

.


.

Heard a story of an outfitter down south (Penticton/Princeton area) running one dog. He came upon his dead dog killed by a cat. He went home and grabbed two more dogs (not sure why he only had one the first time). Let the two dogs go on the cat track and found those tow dogs dead. Went and borrowed another two hounds from a buddy and released on the cat. Those two dogs were also killed. I think they gave up after that. I think they assumed it was an old cat that was unable to tree for whatever reason and the cats only choice was to stay on the ground and fight.

Sounds like a real shitty story! I don't believe any houndsman is that stupid . Like I said before most times its the owners fault his dogs are killed.

take care of those hounds guys, Its good to talk about this subject ,as cat season is here. be safe..

[Dannybuoy]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8173&stc=1 Here's one for LBM from today .... One dog on a cat !����

[LBM]

Never owned hounds, been on one hunt and never saw a fresh track, know a few guys with tons of hound experience.

That being said lets just look at common sense for a second. A cougar is a killing machine, teeth and claws meant for ripping flesh. If a 130 pound cat grabs a single 65 pound dog its not even a close fight. It will be over in literally seconds.

So that being said, if said cat decides to fight for what ever reason its not going top end well for said dogs. Even two dogs have been known to be killed. It will take one second for that cat to grab the spine of the dog and its over. 2nd dog comes in a second later and guess what he gets the same thing as the first dog.

Heard a story of an outfitter down south (Penticton/Princeton area) running one dog. He came upon his dead dog killed by a cat. He went home and grabbed two more dogs (not sure why he only had one the first time). Let the two dogs go on the cat track and found those tow dogs dead. Went and borrowed another two hounds from a buddy and released on the cat. Those two dogs were also killed. I think they gave up after that. I think they assumed it was an old cat that was unable to tree for whatever reason and the cats only choice was to stay on the ground and fight.

You can plan and hope for the best but shit can sometimes go sideways. You could run one dog your whole life and never have a problem and you can run a bunch and still have dogs die. A cat bite in one spot results in a few stiches, same bite an inch over and you have a crushed vertebra.

Took a driving course through work taught by a RMCP crash reconstructionist. Told us a story about one of his crash scenes. A guy driving like 40km hour hits a patch of ice slides sideways and hits a large tree square on the side of the car right between the doors where your shoulder strap connects to the frame. Guy was killed instantly. He said 99 times out of a hundred the guy walks away from the crash with only a headache. Guy wasn’t going fast, wearing his belt doing everything right, but cars are not meant to be hit in that spot by a narrow object like a tree. Cop said head on or quarter panel guys walks away. Earlier in the course cop asked who had ever been in an instance where you thought back and said “F**k that was close” and nothing happened. Well he said your number wasn’t called that day. That guy hitting the tree at just the right spot had his number called. The exact same thing can happen with hounds.

BHB

I will agree with the one comment that you can plan and hope for the best but one never knows, and as mentioned many other issues/dangers out there then just the cat.
But again you say dont own hounds been on one hunt so not much experience or knowledge on it.
Cougars are not killing machines, that is just drama being put out there. Maybe one should get out there and learn about them a bit.
As for your story well as others said a lot of the blame in that case seems to be on the person letting the dogs go and as you say there just assuming why so could be the cat
had a trap on its leg and couldnt climb or had been wounded by a hunter, who knows. Thats why i asked tomcat the circumstances to why so many dog deaths when he was
doing it but his answer was dont really no. So dont really no it may be human error. Thankfully have not lost a dog to a cat have had a few close encounters but each situation
is different and treated that way so decisions are made weather to use 1, 2, or more dogs to insure the best chance at safety for all, and being present in the mix has helped
many times as well. Lots of variables involved and the human has to use some brains or commen sense as well and not just let dogs go and hope for the best.

[tomcat]

. Thankfully have not lost a dog to a cat have had a few close encounters but each situation
is different and treated that way so decisions are made weather to use 1, 2, or more dogs to insure the best chance at safety for all, and being present in the mix has helped
many times as well. Lots of variables involved and the human has to use some brains or commen sense as well and not just let dogs go and hope for the best. Yes and what brains do you think I did not use in the following senario for one instance when I lost a dog. I turned three dogs loose on a cougar track that ended crossing a large creek and then jointed two other cats, probably the first cats two nearly full grown kittens. Two dogs went after one cat and the 13 year old, very expeience dog, went after one cat on its own and met its demise. So, explain to me what I did wrong other than turning the dogs loose on the original track

[bighornbob]

Cougars are not killing machines, that is just drama being put out there. Maybe one should get out there and learn about them a bit.

Really so how do cougars kill deer and elk??? Do they find all the animals they eat already dead. No. They kill them with the weapons that god gave them. So they are in fact killing machines!!! They have the knowledge and the tools. Just because they choose not to kill the dogs does not mean that they are not fully capable Of doing it rather quickly.

Your ordinary house cat is a killing machine if it so chooses to be. Doesn’t mean it preys on smaller dogs but dont kid yourself if push comes to shove it’s killing.

BHB

[tracker]

Yes and what brains do you think I did not use in the following senario for one instance when I lost a dog. I turned three dogs loose on a cougar track that ended crossing a large creek and then jointed two other cats, probably the first cats two nearly full grown kittens. Two dogs went after one cat and the 13 year old, very expeience dog, went after one cat on its own and met its demise. So, explain to me what I did wrong other than turning the dogs loose on the original track

Turning out on a female track is always risky , the kittens will be around and she will defend them .

[LBM]

Yes and what brains do you think I did not use in the following senario for one instance when I lost a dog. I turned three dogs loose on a cougar track that ended crossing a large creek and then jointed two other cats, probably the first cats two nearly full grown kittens. Two dogs went after one cat and the 13 year old, very expeience dog, went after one cat on its own and met its demise. So, explain to me what I did wrong other than turning the dogs loose on the original track
Well would need to no more for a opinion but since you make it sound like you lost your dogs well trailing pet or livestock killed cats, i would have thourghly checked the area. What time of day did you turn loose. How far away was this large creek, open or iced over, how deep etc.
I wouldnt be turning a 13 year old dog with young dogs odds are they are going to be seperated by speed any way. So where did the 3rd cat go they all went in different directions. How far behind the dogs were you. Which cat killed the dog the
first track or one of the others. Lots of variables in play. Sorry for the lose of the dog.
Been lots of cases for one reason or another we just say no, and dont turn dogs loose.

[LBM]

Really so how do cougars kill deer and elk??? Do they find all the animals they eat already dead. No. They kill them with the weapons that god gave them. So they are in fact killing machines!!! They have the knowledge and the tools. Just because they choose not to kill the dogs does not mean that they are not fully capable Of doing it rather quickly.

Your ordinary house cat is a killing machine if it so chooses to be. Doesn’t mean it preys on smaller dogs but dont kid yourself if push comes to shove it’s killing.

BHB
Humans kill deer and elk as well so you call them killing machines as well. You must write for the media, like to add drama and spice things up.
Get out and learn a bit about them, they have lots of fails at trying to find some thing to eat.