Responsible move by Local First Nation

[BC Cruiser]

Have a look at the attached article. I’d like to see other First Nations in this area do something similar. Either way I’d like to think this is a step in the right direction.

https://cfjctoday.com/2020/11/06/elk-sightings-prompt-hunting-moratorium-on-tkemlups-te-secwepemc-lands/

I’ve spoken with the ministry ungulate bios about these herds in the past. They said it was only poachers keeping these herds small, which was limiting expansion.

[RyoTHC]

Have a look at the attached article. I’d like to see other First Nations in this area do something similar. Either way I’d like to think this is a step in the right direction.

https://cfjctoday.com/2020/11/06/elk-sightings-prompt-hunting-moratorium-on-tkemlups-te-secwepemc-lands/

I’ve spoken with the ministry ungulate bios about these herds in the past. They said it was only poachers keeping these herds small, which was limiting expansion.


by poachers he meant the band members from all the other bands that have a hay day with these elk, through work I know of numerous bulls and several cows coming from that area and each of them was a sustenance harvest... and those are just the ones I know about, and it’s double digit.. hell, 3 since the heavy snow fall this year alone..
it is very common knowledge where and when the elk push down to “try” to winter and are picked off one by one(off posted private property NOT band land) and I would feel pretty confident that no First Nations are getting or paying that 10k fine.

pros and cons to getting to interact with hundreds of locals a day 6 days a week.

[Firstblood]

This is a great move and if a FN does shoot one Im pretty confident that the punishment will be handed down. This wasnt a move by the government this was a move by the local bands themselves, they didnt have to do anything. I know they wont all be on the same page about it but I am very happy to see it in writing.

[Walking Buffalo]

Wow.... slow down.

This may be a wolf wearing Red.

This looks like a Very dangerous path to allow the BC government to follow.
What I foresee in the courts.


There is a legal question of whether a FN can impose hunting restrictions on individual First Nation peoples.
The Charter of Rights protects the Individual Indian. It does not give FN governments the right to impose restrictions that are illegal.

The path to FN government enforcement of such a resolution depends of Federal/Provincial government acceptance and authorization as only the Canadian government can limit Individual Indians hunting rights due to conservation concerns.

Now, take deep note of the resolution. The resolution is to be enforced on Kamloops Indian Band Lands AND TRADTIONAL TERRITORY.


This Moratorium, to be enforced in a Canadian court, as it would have to to effect the individual Indian, would also mandate that ALL hunting of that species in the effected Lands would be Illegal for EVERY ONE.

In effect, the resolution if deemed constitutionally legal, would apply to EVERYONE, on ALL Traditional Territory.

All BC hunters should be aware that ALL of BC is claimed as Traditional Territory by some FN band.

In essence, combined FN Band moratoriums could be applied to ALL of BC.

I see this a a path for FNs to be able to impose hunting restrictions on ALL of BC Lands that apply to EVERYONE.


While a glancing view may look pretty,
A closer look can be disturbing when the details are revealed.

[RyoTHC]

This is a great move and if a FN does shoot one Im pretty confident that the punishment will be handed down. This wasnt a move by the government this was a move by the local bands themselves, they didnt have to do anything. I know they wont all be on the same page about it but I am very happy to see it in writing.


it’s called virtue signalling they are taking a page out of Justin’s book, they won’t stop hunting them. Give your head a shake lol

[ruby]

by poachers he meant the band members from all the other bands that have a hay day with these elk, through work I know of numerous bulls and several cows coming from that area and each of them was a sustenance harvest... and those are just the ones I know about, and it’s double digit.. hell, 3 since the heavy snow fall this year alone..
it is very common knowledge where and when the elk push down to “try” to winter and are picked off one by one(off posted private property NOT band land) and I would feel pretty confident that no First Nations are getting or paying that 10k fine.

pros and cons to getting to interact with hundreds of locals a day 6 days a week.

If you are prepared to back this info up facts and proof, private message me.

[skibum]

Personally seen two of these elk last year, put my gun to my shoulder on one as I was mule deer hunting and did not know that elk were in the area at the time. Thought I was on the biggest mule buck I had ever seen. What sucks is that I saw these elk in an area of heavy poaching.

The last elk in the Kamloops area years ago, (these ones are out east) was shot by a farmer up Westside Road way.

[tigrr]

The fn shot 4 of 6 elk hanging around Horsefly. All on private land. 2 Bulls and then 2 cows. No open season around here for elk, for licensed hunters.

[HarryToolips]

Sounds like the modern stewards of the land continue their reputation of stewarding....their ancestors would role in their graves...

[Jagermeister]

Look at the date on that proclamation, 2016. I can tell you that the elk have been hunted hard with great success since that date.

[Ganso]

I see this a a path for FNs to be able to impose hunting restrictions on ALL of BC Lands that apply to EVERYONE.


This is a concern especially if the government doesn't research or dispute the size of those traditional lands claims (see the current land claim debacle).

[Jagermeister]

The fn shot 4 of 6 elk hanging around Horsefly. All on private land. 2 Bulls and then 2 cows. No open season around here for elk, for licensed hunters.
If the private property is posted "No Trespassing", the owner should have called the police. Here's why.

"Three Indigenous men charged with illegal hunting will pay fines of $500 each after pleading guilty to trespassing Tuesday in a case the Penticton Indian Band says speaks to larger issues of land title and rights.
*Cole Kruger, Felix Thomas Kruger and Fred Kruger initially were charged with trespassing, unlawful possession of dead wildlife and discharging a firearm in a no-shooting area, but the latter two counts were dropped as part of a plea deal entered on what was to be the first day of trial in provincial court.

Crown counsel Karla Dodds told the court that in the early hours of Jan. 29, 2017, a resident of Greyback Mountain Road spotted a truck driving up the road, and soon after heard a firearm discharge.

After driving up the road, the same man witnessed all three Kruger men approximately 100 metres on private property with an animal carcass. The property was fenced with No Trespassing signs visible.
“At no time did the (property owner) give permission to Cole Kruger, Felix Kruger or Fred Kruger to be on the subject property,” said Dodds.

Conservation officers and RCMP arrived at the scene and identified the Krugers, one of whom, Fred, was later elected to band council.
In a joint sentencing submission, the Crown counsel asked for a fine of $500, which amounted to a significant step up from the minimum $115 penalty

“The aggravating feature is the fact that there was a firearm discharged on private property and it could have been a dangerous situation given the time of day,” said Judge Michelle Daneliuk in her reasons for sentence.
The men declined comment outside court.
However, the band issued a statement later Tuesday in which Chief Chad Eneas expressed support for the men.
Eneas said the pleas were entered after the band was unable to reach a deal with the provincial government to address concerns related to hunting on private land within the band’s traditional territory.
“Our members were acting under the direction of our elders in accordance with Syilx law and protocol. We will always support their right to hunt for food and ceremonies in a safe and respectful manner on Syilx Okanagan lands,” the chief said.
*“By pleading guilty, we do not admit that the province or private individuals are the rightful owners of the property. These lands have always been subject to the title and rights of the Syilx Okanagan Nation.” "
Say it the way it really was, a plea deal. By pleading guilty to trespassing Crown dropped the other two charges, primarily the charge " discharging a firearm in a no-shooting area " which would have resulted in a firearms ban at the very least and perhaps a prison sentence.
Regardless of who the trespassers are, call the police. Try to get as much information as safely possible.

[ruby]

Look at the date on that proclamation, 2016. I can tell you that the elk have been hunted hard with great success since that date.

I’ll ask you the same thing, if you are prepared to back this info up with facts and proof, then PM me. Only if this is in direct relation to the original poster.

[Rob Chipman]

If the private property is posted "No Trespassing", the owner should *NOT CALL* the police. Here's why.




"Three Indigenous men charged with illegal hunting will pay fines of $500 each after pleading guilty to trespassing Tuesday in a case the Penticton Indian Band says speaks to larger issues of land title and rights.
Conservation officers and RCMP arrived at the scene and identified the Krugers, one of whom, Fred, was later elected to band council.
In a joint sentencing submission, the Crown counsel asked for a fine of $500, which amounted to a significant step up from the minimum $115 penalty
Chief Chad Eneas expressed support for the men.

Eneas said the pleas were entered after the band was unable to reach a deal with the provincial government to address concerns related to hunting on private land within the band’s traditional territory.
“Our members were acting under the direction of our elders in accordance with Syilx law and protocol. We will always support their right to hunt for food and ceremonies in a safe and respectful manner on Syilx Okanagan lands,” the chief said.
*“By pleading guilty, we do not admit that the province or private individuals are the rightful owners of the property. These lands have always been subject to the title and rights of the Syilx Okanagan Nation.” "


Obviously I'm being difficult on this, but a $500 fine is not a significant step up from a $115 if your goal is to establish rights to hunt on private land or establish rights to the land or wildlife itself.

They paid $1500 in order to have the Crown avoid making a decision on the actual subject matter. I'd suggest that they actually want to go to court precisely because.... "the Penticton Indian Band says [this case] speaks to larger issues of land title and rights."

That's cheap at twice the cost. Money well spent by PIB.

[Rob Chipman]

This looks like a Very dangerous path to allow the BC government to follow.


I think you're exactly right. There are lots of good things in this story, but the path is not as easy to navigate as it initially appears, and your reasoning on that seems very sound.