3” to happiness......

[whognu]

Hi folks

lined up on a dandy muley this am

Question for those with ballistic knowledge

at 80 yards shooting 7mm mag @ 140 gr nosler ballistic tip
Bullet travels dead Center thru a 3” poplar

how much velocity/ hitting power gets thru?

looked fir a couple hours in snow, no blood no feathers

thx

chris

[srthomas75]

Did you hit the tree first? and then maybe the deer. I'm not sure if I read that correct.

[4pointer]

Depends on bullet construction. May have expanded and been shrapnel on the other side. Can also change course. Many unpredictable things can happen when shooting through a tree and many variables to account for. Best to of just waited for a better shot.

[grantk]

Why are you looking for feathers from a mule deer?

[Dannybuoy]

Why are you looking for feathers from a mule deer?
And at 80 yds , you couldn't aim a couple of inches left or right to miss the tree ?

[fuzzybiscuit]

Good job. Poplars are the best tasting of all the trees imho. And a nice young one to boot.

[Rieber]

Someone is fishing for fun.

[albravo2]

140gr is not enough bullet for poplars, even out of a magnum. Alders, yes. Birch maybe (with the usual paragraph on shot placement). Poplar definitely not.

On the bright side Chris, at least you know what happened. I hate the misses that leave you scratching your head, wondering how the hell that animal got away.

Better luck tomorrow!

[whognu]

Question remains

what amount of velocity would you think is lost after 2-3” of poplar?

timber hunting, you take your best shot, the odd time shit happens

Pretty much had an 18” window.......divided by a 3” tree

[grantk]

I would think that ballistic tips fall apart through 3" of tree. Probably just fragments exiting the other side.

[Rieber]

How far was the deer behind the tree?

[islandhunter]

Ballistic tip probably blew up in the tree? That bullet would be close to my last choice, especially in a 7mm manglem

[j270wsm]

If the deer was within a few feet of the tree then I could see your concern of it being wounded. I’m betting the ballistic tip disintegrated.

[Rieber]

I'll bet at 80yards that 7mag bonded bullet mushroomed so much that it started fragmenting. I recently shot a mulie at about 200 yards with a 130gr Accubond out of a .264WM and dang if I didn't find a petal peeled off that bullet stuck on the offside hide.

Accubonds are tough nuts for sure but your 7mag at 80 yards is downright explosive with the speed of that 140gr.

No blood evidence and you looked for a couple hours? Well if that deer was 6' or so beyond that tree, fragment deflection will go anywhere. I think you satisfied yourself that hitting the dang tree resulted in a complete miss.

Oh, I just read the previous post - I missed the Ballistic tip part - I had Accubond in my mind. Oh I'm certain now that that NBT totally grenaded at 80 yards.

[mooseknuckler]

Try stepping up to a TTSX :)

[Farmer]

If the deer was within a few feet of the tree then I could see your concern of it being wounded. I’m betting the ballistic tip disintegrated.
I would agree.

[250 sav]

I would think that ballistic tips fall apart through 3" of tree. Probably just fragments exiting the other side.

My thoughts too.

[whognu]

Thanks everyone

number one concern always for not leaving a wounded animal

- deer was say 25’ past the offending vegetation so hopefully he’s a-ok

- funny enough I always used fed premium nosler partitions yet could not get any so took a box of BT- I have another new box of accu bonds so given your responses I’ll use the BT for target practice

hey mr albravo:

back in the bat cave; just a three day jaunt with the mrs to kammy; 30 does 2 moose (including a unicorn immy); let a small buck go yesterday, let a beauty go today ...... lotsa grouse, shot none

good luck all

chris

[whognu]

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Maglic]

Good job. Poplars are the best tasting of all the trees imho. And a nice young one to boot.

LOL
this is the best one I've read on HBC.

[GEF]

7 mm mag 140 ballistic tip + 3 inch Aspen = dust

[gcreek]

Good job. Poplars are the best tasting of all the trees imho. And a nice young one to boot.


Hey Chris, could you share here which mill you took your kill to for processing? Were you happy with the cuts?

Inquiring minds would know....😛

If that deer was 25 yards back of the tree you likely only hurt his dignity.

[jlirot]

awesome post!

[Rayne]

Time to upgrade to a 45/70. Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Have yet to get a trophy tree myself ��

[whognu]

Hey Chris, could you share here which mill you took your kill to for processing? Were you happy with the cuts?

Inquiring minds would know....

If that deer was 25 yards back of the tree you likely only hurt his dignity.

well dave:

it still stings a bit but here's the whole story...........

immediately after the shot i stood there in a state of disbelief; how could i have shot that tree without properly identifying it?

what an idiot


so i manned up and phoned the RAPP line and self reported

the fellow said "we're pretty busy this weekend yet we'll see if we can get an officer up to the kill site asap"

then i called my wife (in the truck) explained what happened and listened to her confirm that indeed i am an idiot ---------i stopped listening when she started to explain the difference between four legs and one etc etc etc........"bring the pruning shears with you, we have some work to do and daylight is burning"

so, i take some pictures and await for the arrival of 'she who must be obeyed'

i eat an apple and replay the whole scenario over and over in my mind; very upsetting, only alleviated in the knowledge that it was a quick and painless death

about an hour later she arrives "why didn't you leave better tracks in the snow, your tracks were going every g'damned way, zigging and zagging, up down..............you drunk or what"?

(and then re-re-confirming my place in idiot-dom)

anyhoo, with my proper pruning shears i quickly salvaged the useable parts of the tree

turned out, it was indeed a clean shot and aside from the splintering at the exit site, there appeared no other internal damage

"you going to use cheesecloth"?

WTF?

she gave me 'that' look..............we wrapped it tight

even tho we went a somewhat more direct line back to the truck it took a loooooong time and no words were spoken -- 'silent woods'? you have no idea

back at camp we are welcomed by the blue flashing lights of the game warden (biggest case of the week i suppose)

he took my statement, took some pictures, went back to his truck several times to call HQ and read the regs and came back and rendered his verdict

i knew it was not going to end well when he started with "well son (he was 32 i am 60) i have good news and i have bad news"

the mrs pointed out (later) that he never did ask which i wanted first

"there are many infractions here and legally i can impound your guns and your vehicle and yet in the interest of time, mine not yours, here is the summary:

- while you have a firewood cutting permit, it is for the boundary region not the loops region

- the firewood cutting permit allows only dead fall trees

- the firewood cutting permit does not allow for poplar removal; they are strictly under protection from the ministry

- most egregious, single projectile are verboten in that area

"blah blah blah........so under the wildlife and firewood acts of BC i hereby confiscate your pruning shears and am issuing you with fines of $173 for each of the three infractions and as it is a first offence it will not form a part of your permanent record"

"take solace in the fact that many (most, no one) would actually self report this transgression and this will give everyone back at the shop a good chuckle.........hell, this will almost assuredly make the top 3 at the christmas party"

"finally, i hope you have learned a lesson from this. One good thing from this is i will be dropping the poplar off to a struggling wood working family here in the valley, this covid bs has caused a lot of hardship and this wood will go a long way in alleviating some of their pain. They can possibly make a ruler or an arrow or toothpicks or something"

"good day son"

and then a 5 hour drive down the canyon............

[MRP]

As stated already bullet construction. Probably going to shoot my self here but, the only 190 btsp Hornady bullet I ever recovered was one that went through 4ish inch Alder first. The moose was about 2 feet behind it, went in behind the right leg found it on the hide on the left side close to the last rib.

[wideopenthrottle]

awesome...so you don't have a bit of groundwood you could spare then...i'm making larks tongue in aspen

[Redthies]

awesome...so you don't have a bit of groundwood you could spare then...i'm making larks tongue in aspen

Isn’t it a bit early for whiskey?

[bigredchev]

A rifle is the wrong tool for the job, you need a Mossberg chainsaw.

[whognu]

well dave:

it still stings a bit but here's the whole story...........

immediately after the shot i stood there in a state of disbelief; how could i have shot that tree without properly identifying it?

what an idiot


so i manned up and phoned the RAPP line and self reported

the fellow said "we're pretty busy this weekend yet we'll see if we can get an officer up to the kill site asap"

then i called my wife (in the truck) explained what happened and listened to her confirm that indeed i am an idiot ---------i stopped listening when she started to explain the difference between four legs and one etc etc etc........"bring the pruning shears with you, we have some work to do and daylight is burning"

so, i take some pictures and await for the arrival of 'she who must be obeyed'

i eat an apple and replay the whole scenario over and over in my mind; very upsetting, only alleviated in the knowledge that it was a quick and painless death

about an hour later she arrives "why didn't you leave better tracks in the snow, your tracks were going every g'damned way, zigging and zagging, up down..............you drunk or what"?

(and then re-re-confirming my place in idiot-dom)

anyhoo, with my proper pruning shears i quickly salvaged the useable parts of the tree

turned out, it was indeed a clean shot and aside from the splintering at the exit site, there appeared no other internal damage

"you going to use cheesecloth"?

WTF?

she gave me 'that' look..............we wrapped it tight

even tho we went a somewhat more direct line back to the truck it took a loooooong time and no words were spoken -- 'silent woods'? you have no idea

back at camp we are welcomed by the blue flashing lights of the game warden (biggest case of the week i suppose)

he took my statement, took some pictures, went back to his truck several times to call HQ and read the regs and came back and rendered his verdict

i knew it was not going to end well when he started with "well son (he was 32 i am 60) i have good news and i have bad news"

the mrs pointed out (later) that he never did ask which i wanted first

"there are many infractions here and legally i can impound your guns and your vehicle and yet in the interest of time, mine not yours, here is the summary:

- while you have a firewood cutting permit, it is for the boundary region not the loops region

- the firewood cutting permit allows only dead fall trees

- the firewood cutting permit does not allow for poplar removal; they are strictly under protection from the ministry

- most egregious, single projectile are verboten in that area

"blah blah blah........so under the wildlife and firewood acts of BC i hereby confiscate your pruning shears and am issuing you with fines of $173 for each of the three infractions and as it is a first offence it will not form a part of your permanent record"

"take solace in the fact that many (most, no one) would actually self report this transgression and this will give everyone back at the shop a good chuckle.........hell, this will almost assuredly make the top 3 at the christmas party"

"finally, i hope you have learned a lesson from this. One good thing from this is i will be dropping the poplar off to a struggling wood working family here in the valley, this covid bs has caused a lot of hardship and this wood will go a long way in alleviating some of their pain. They can possibly make a ruler or an arrow or toothpicks or something"

"good day son"

and then a 5 hour drive down the canyon............


Re: 3” to happiness......
awesome...so you don't have a bit of groundwood you could spare then...i'm making larks tongue in aspen



hey bill:

No idea what this means.....

xo

[walks with deer]

clean miss almost guranteed.

[srthomas75]

well dave:

it still stings a bit but here's the whole story...........

immediately after the shot i stood there in a state of disbelief; how could i have shot that tree without properly identifying it?

what an idiot


so i manned up and phoned the RAPP line and self reported

the fellow said "we're pretty busy this weekend yet we'll see if we can get an officer up to the kill site asap"

then i called my wife (in the truck) explained what happened and listened to her confirm that indeed i am an idiot ---------i stopped listening when she started to explain the difference between four legs and one etc etc etc........"bring the pruning shears with you, we have some work to do and daylight is burning"

so, i take some pictures and await for the arrival of 'she who must be obeyed'

i eat an apple and replay the whole scenario over and over in my mind; very upsetting, only alleviated in the knowledge that it was a quick and painless death

about an hour later she arrives "why didn't you leave better tracks in the snow, your tracks were going every g'damned way, zigging and zagging, up down..............you drunk or what"?

(and then re-re-confirming my place in idiot-dom)

anyhoo, with my proper pruning shears i quickly salvaged the useable parts of the tree

turned out, it was indeed a clean shot and aside from the splintering at the exit site, there appeared no other internal damage

"you going to use cheesecloth"?

WTF?

she gave me 'that' look..............we wrapped it tight

even tho we went a somewhat more direct line back to the truck it took a loooooong time and no words were spoken -- 'silent woods'? you have no idea

back at camp we are welcomed by the blue flashing lights of the game warden (biggest case of the week i suppose)

he took my statement, took some pictures, went back to his truck several times to call HQ and read the regs and came back and rendered his verdict

i knew it was not going to end well when he started with "well son (he was 32 i am 60) i have good news and i have bad news"

the mrs pointed out (later) that he never did ask which i wanted first

"there are many infractions here and legally i can impound your guns and your vehicle and yet in the interest of time, mine not yours, here is the summary:

- while you have a firewood cutting permit, it is for the boundary region not the loops region

- the firewood cutting permit allows only dead fall trees

- the firewood cutting permit does not allow for poplar removal; they are strictly under protection from the ministry

- most egregious, single projectile are verboten in that area

"blah blah blah........so under the wildlife and firewood acts of BC i hereby confiscate your pruning shears and am issuing you with fines of $173 for each of the three infractions and as it is a first offence it will not form a part of your permanent record"

"take solace in the fact that many (most, no one) would actually self report this transgression and this will give everyone back at the shop a good chuckle.........hell, this will almost assuredly make the top 3 at the christmas party"

"finally, i hope you have learned a lesson from this. One good thing from this is i will be dropping the poplar off to a struggling wood working family here in the valley, this covid bs has caused a lot of hardship and this wood will go a long way in alleviating some of their pain. They can possibly make a ruler or an arrow or toothpicks or something"

"good day son"

and then a 5 hour drive down the canyon............


best reply so far. well written

[ratherbefishin]

So now you’re shooting ‘endangered ‘poplar trees ...was it an ‘immature’? ..clearly we need a ‘study’ on that..

[wideopenthrottle]

Re: 3” to happiness......


awesome...so you don't have a bit of groundwood you could spare then...i'm making larks tongue in aspen




hey bill:

No idea what this means.....

xo


very obscure reference...to a king crimson song
"larks tongue in aspic" which is a food music play on words


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhudDa3JAyc

[Redthies]

very obscure reference...to a king crimson song
"larks tongue in aspic" which is a food music play on words


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhudDa3JAyc


Umm. No. Just no. I was alive in the 60s so actually conscious in the 70s, and thankfully missed that one until now. I know some King Crimson “music”, but it was from after they came down off whatever they were on in that video! The drummer in the orange pants and fur sweater is clearly out of his head! That’s some funny chit right there!

[ratherbefishin]

Way back we used to talk about ‘brush busting ‘ cartridges , big soft nosed heavy bullets ...the myth being they could plough through a small tree and still kill game...not true...anything can throw a bullet off course and make a miss,or worse wound an animal

[wideopenthrottle]

Way back we used to talk about ‘brush busting ‘ cartridges , big soft nosed heavy bullets ...the myth being they could plough through a small tree and still kill game...not true...anything can throw a bullet off course and make a miss,or worse wound an animal

I had a nice rest once and took a perfect shot but my barrel being a bit lower than my scope actually caused the bullet to catch the snow a tiny bit and I missed low

[Linksman313]

Poplar no good for firewood, but I did punch a clean through hole in a 2-3" Birch one time with a 165G .308 Sierra Gameking BT from 50yds one time.
:grin:
WhoGnu - "The answer lies in Trigonometry"

or Algebra?


Links

[whognu]

very obscure reference...to a king crimson song
"larks tongue in aspic" which is a food music play on words


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhudDa3JAyc


going to have to take your word for it; video wouldn't open

tho, if i could i would post up the picture of my dead tree on "as it lay" thread

not techy enough for it

as an aside, this week should be awesome in the muley woods; getting a real cold snap in the loops


next year

[Jagermeister]

If the tree doesn’t have some major damage on the other side then you missed him. Your bullet would roughly 1.5” high at 80 yards presuming that you shot was purely horizontal. If the incline was up or down then your shot was high.

[whognu]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/blob:http://www.huntingbc.ca/6fb480f7-8768-4ee7-94be-9e0e8dcac455

[whognu]

My gun is zeroed at 100yds

so I figure 1” low at 50’ and 2” low at 200’

(can stand to be corrected)

and yes the tree was shredded on the backside

clean miss hopefully

thx