Grouse 12 ga shell questions

[Skogkatt]

I have been hunting Grouse for the first time with no. 7.5 and no.6 both in 2 3/4 shell and they were relatively easy to kill at 20 yards or less. The problem was when I was shooting between 20 to 40 yards. I was not able to kill any grouse, I failed 3 of 3 when they were not moving... with an improve cylinder choke.

Should I use 3 inches shells for the distances between(20 to 40 yards)?

[Cat catcher]

Use a full choke

[mikeman20]

I use a mod or full choke

[Throwaway]

I’ve never shot grouse with a 12. 12s are for pushing heavier pellets. Shooting 7 1/2s out of a 20 will pattern much better than a 12. Probably not too helpful to you now unless you’re looking for a reason to get a new gun.

[Drillbit]

Use a 22.

If you don't want pellets in the breast. Use 7.5 or 8, 2 3/4 in your 12 ga. Walk right at them till they fly, and them shoot them out of the air.


If you're set on shooting standing grouse (sluice) with a 12 ga, buy some paper plates and staple them to trees 20-40 yards and learn exactly where to aim to hit them in the head and not the body. Different brands of ammo might pattern different out of your gun. Turkey hunting from a bait stand tip.

Re-read you OP and it sounds like you haven't shot much. Practice up and learn your gun.

[B.C.Boy(100%)]

I gave up on the 12 for grouse, I really like the 20 better.
I used 7.5 in the 12 with a full or mod choke.
In the 20 I used imp cylinder or mod with #6

[MRP]

Xxx turkey choke #6 shot

[VLD43]

First thing to do is to pattern your gun. Use a pattern board or large piece of cardboard. Put a dot in the center and stand back at 20 yds. Shoot some shells and look at pattern density. Try a couple of different chokes. You will find that some shell brands pattern better than others. Find something your gun likes. As far as chokes goes, I would recommend a modified choke. The more open choke you are using will work but pattern density will suffer at distance. Also keep in mind that if you are shooting all your birds on the ground they will be harder to kill at distance as their wings are not extended. Birds in the air are easier in my mind to dispatch. The best option in my opinion is to have the forcing cone on your gun removed or opened up. Best thing there is to improve pattern density.

[Arctic Lake]

You fellas are recommending to the OP a 20 gauge can you recommend a good make . Are there ones with interchangeable chokes ? Maybe the two of us will learn something !
Arctic Lake
Thank You

[ACB]

My favourite grouse gun is my old Stevens SXS 12ga made around 1916, it's choke is open and more open. It's marked Mod. but just looking at it it's far more. After using this gun for years I know where it shoots and I always aim a little high using #5's or #6's and mostly just hit the head without much wastage. And Arctic lake I have a Beretta A400 Explor 20ga. 26 in.barrel semi auto loader, the gun weigh's less than 6lbs., it's a great field gun and it's my go to field gun, it came with 3 chokes F,M,C. It's chamber for 2 3/4in. and 3in. I love to pack it for Pheasants in Alberta, 3in in #4's or#5's knocks them down pretty good.

[B.C.Boy(100%)]

The 20 I use is wingmaster 870 LW Field Special, 21” vent rib double bead sight, Remington interchange chokes.
English straight stock, hard to come by these days.

[Squamch]

I’ve never shot grouse with a 12. 12s are for pushing heavier pellets. Shooting 7 1/2s out of a 20 will pattern much better than a 12. Probably not too helpful to you now unless you’re looking for a reason to get a new gun.

7 or 7.5s are normal trap loads, and most guys shoot 12 gauges. Pattern is about forcing cones and choke size, not gauge.
OP, try a tighter choke, mod or improved mod.

[Throwaway]

I’ve found shot ‘patterns’ better at lower velocities, I think the science agrees with me.

[upperleftcoaster]

i was using target load shells last week. size 7.5 or 8 i think? low brass. i'm not a great shot while they are spooked and flying away, but when roosted it was easy enough to take them out by the head. haven't had to spit any pellets out yet. using 12ga, full choke.

[caddisguy]

I use a 12ga with 2/3" shells, shot size #4-6 and 1 & 1/8 or 1 & 1/4 loads through a modified choke.

It does pretty darn good shooting grouse on the ground, out of trees and out of the air.

I love it, but I have had some of those "what the heck" moments where I shoot at a grouse 15-20 yards away and swear there is a grouse shaped gap in my pattern.

A few notable episodes... last year for whatever reason I thought a 12 inch meatball sub would do me for the weekend. Got to camp and ate all on the Friday night. Oops! No more food for 36 hours. Woke up next morning to a thud. Looked out my windshield and see 3 grouse messing about just under 20 yards away. I quietly un case the shotgun. Find my keys for the trigger lock, pop the lock off, locate a few shells. Quietly open the door and step out, jack one in, line up bird #1... BOOM... Grouse flies into the next time zone. Line up grouse #2... BOOM... flies off.... grouse #3... BOOM... see ya later... flies off as I sent a hail mary shot above it over my head... no go. Let the fasting continue.

I recall another time I shot at a snoozing grouse 3 times from 10 yards away before it took off, and another time I shot at one about 20 yards 3 times and hit it on the 4th time (i have that on video for some future blooper compilation)

Just over a week ago I missed one 10 yards as it took flight. Saw it looking down at me from a branch. BOOM. Nope.

It's really the rushed / pressure shots I miss. In hind sight, I'm not very thorough when it comes to form or lining up the bead. I have a mid sight and a front sight on a vented rail. I am sure if I was better about making sure the beads are lined up and the rail is flat for every shot I wouldn't have as many "miss" stories.

On paper and and taking my time, the shotgun does what it's supposed to do every time. Now that guy being the trigger... he is known to malfunction from time to time.

I just put on a fiber optic front bead just to change something up to make me a little more cognizant of pointing the shotgun properly.

Back to shells... the reason I like #4-6 with lighter pay loads is there are not enough pellets to damage meat and when you do get a couple in the breast, they often pass right through, if not, super easy to locate.

#7.5-8 is getting a bit on the light side for my preferences. I have used both and they both work, but I have run into lack of penetration or light penetration combined with more pellets than I would like to see. However, that does go back to practice and knowing your pattern. A lot of savvy shotgun shooters use it without issue.

[lakelander]

I've tried all the combos and I use 7.5 shot through improved cylinder. Works like a charm - got 9 this weekend and one was at least 40 yards on the ground. Using a Remington 870 express which is perfect for the thickets. I always aim 2 inches over the head to minimize lead in the breast meat and it works most of the time.

[Squamch]

I’ve found shot ‘patterns’ better at lower velocities, I think the science agrees with me.

I think you should do more research, the science doesn't agree with you. While velocity is certainly a factor, so is shot hardness, wad design, barrel length, forcing cone length, and choke.
How fast are your 20 gauge shells anyway?

Federal top gun 12 gauge 3 dram #8 is advertised at 1200fps.
Federal top gun 20 gauge, 2.5 dram #8 is advertised at....1210fps.

Gauge doesn't reflect velocity or pattern.

[Throwaway]

Found this from OutdoorLife.com. Not exactly MIT but a somewhat reputable source.

‘The most uniform patterns with lead shot typically come at slower speeds. With less of a starting whack from the powder gas, fewer pellets are crushed. Similarly, the shot will slip through the forcing cone, down the bore, and out the choke with fewer deformities. As a result, more pellets remain in the core of a pattern and you’ll have fewer fliers. This provides good pattern density and will help you to bring down more birds.’

source:https://www.outdoorlife.com/3-reasons-you-should-use-light-loads-for-upland-bird-hunting/

[Squamch]

Well, I guess they know better than every top ranked trap shooter, and every ammunition manufacturer. I would guess that 95% of trap shooters shoot a 12 gauge with #7 or #7.5 shot. You get more shot, which creates a denser pattern, and 12 and 20 gauge rounds are fired at similar velocities. So other than lighter recoil, what's the advantage to a 20 gauge again?

[VLD43]

Things that make for a good pattern are good quality shells, and shotgun bore that is properly manufactured. Most higher end shells have brass vs steel heads, good powder and wads and 6% antimony shot. Out of a good bore they will shoot dense patterns. Most good Trap, Skeet and Sporting guns have the forcing cones lengthened, and honed bores. While shell speed could be argued, I have a hard time believing this reasoning unless you are using soft shot. Olympic Trap and Skeet shooters typically use 7/8 ounce of shot at 1300 or 1350 feet per second. The patterns on their guns must be dense in order to break the targets as they are harder and faster than american Trap & Skeet targets. Any of the 27 yd'er Trap shooters I know use the hardest shoot shot they can purchase, because they want uniform patterns when shooting back that far. The cheaper shells while good for general purpose stuff, will not pattern as well as the better stuff. The old you get what you pay for comes to mind in this case. Ever watch a guy with a Perazzi, Barreta, or Kreigoff shotgun on a trap line. Those guns powder targets with good shells for a reason. If pattern density is a concern, best to buy a better quality shell, or consider shells with copper coated shot. Another option is to get some barrel work done, buy a better quality gun and/or learn to shoot birds in the air. They are much easier to kill when flying vs sitting on the ground.

[Throwaway]

I see what you’re stabbing at and I think your insights into the subject are pretty irrefutable. That being said I believe, firmly, that a 20 gauge is still the answer to our man’s original problem. Newer shooters will shoot and ‘pattern’ a 20 better no matter what a Pro trap shooter is up to. Never found it lacking in the upland. Hell I started out with a 28g and a half crazed lab over 2 decades ago now and I think the old 28 probably still in the running as far as body count goes.

[walks with deer]

12 gauge 3.5 bb or tripple bbs lead always aim for breast.

[Arctic Lake]

Would like to hear some more replies on what make for a new 20 gauge pump .
Arctic Lake

[B.C.Boy(100%)]

It’s not a pump Artic, the Weatherby SA08 compact in 20 had my eye for a bit, not sure if the PA08 was made in a compact.
A lot of the areas I hunt the grouse can be a little thick with brush, so the compacts come in handy for those places.

[Skogkatt]

I will try the modified choke this time but I will also bring the full choke this week. Thank you all for you valuable answers!!!

[RDJ]

You fellas are recommending to the OP a 20 gauge can you recommend a good make . Are there ones with interchangeable chokes ? Maybe the two of us will learn something !
Arctic Lake
Thank You

My personal choice is a Mossberg SA20 with some Carlson extended chokes.

[Redthies]

Xxx turkey choke #6 shot

I actually did this on Friday. Out for turkey and a ruffled flushed and I instinctively pulled on it... it didn’t have much left behind the breasts, but zero pellets in the meat. Legs and guts were MIA. I’m going to try not to do that again. Probably my best wing shot ever based on how tight the pattern would have been at the 15 yard distance!

[vladthepes]

I use 7 1/2 when the grouse if not too far and, if i think it is a bit far, i use no. 2 shots! It works very well and i almost never loose a grouse!

[mooze]

I would join your next rod and gun club and go trap or sporting clay shooting. In principle grouse can be killed by 6-shot from an upland load ( 1250 fps or faster ) with a tight choke (IM or full) out to 60y. Hitting is the issue.
And practice is more fun and more useful than upgrading your gear.

Also armoured grouse need 3.1/2 in sell and buckshot.....

[Springer]

Does no one use a 410 for Grouse. Holy smokes a 12 gauge any shot size is plenty for them. I use a 12 or 20 gauge for pheasant but make sure theres some distance out before shooting. Know your gun and its pattern , shoot some Clays once your connecting on them your ready for any flush.

[caddisguy]

Does no one use a 410 for Grouse. Holy smokes a 12 gauge any shot size is plenty for them. I use a 12 or 20 gauge for pheasant but make sure theres some distance out before shooting. Know your gun and its pattern , shoot some Clays once your connecting on them your ready for any flush.

I have shot them with a 410. It's a fun round. I imagine winging grouse with 410 would be more difficult (though I have never tried)

12ga with a modified choke seems to work great. So far I have shot a few dozen with the 12ga and never put more than 2 pellets in (through) the breast. I have missed some close up grouse where I try to aim high. I actually ordered a IC and Skeet choke recently to see if that makes shooting close birds easier. I know it will be at the expense of longer shots and I'll kick myself when those opportunities are presented... but overall since most are within 25, IC or Skeet might be more appropriate. I guess I will find out soon.

[Springer]

I love the 410. Im not saying i don't miss my fair share either, I just like the lightweight and challenge.Ruffies are my favourite upland game bird to eat , excluding Turkey because it takes 12-14 yrs now to get drawn in Alberta.

[wideopenthrottle]

startes hunting ducks and grouse...killed lots as others have said pattern your gun on some cardboard....the triick is to figure out the bottom..i always aimed high to just catch the head with a couple of bbs always had 2 7 1/2 with a #6 forpneflying away..criticalto know your pattern
ps my choke is mod

[Survival Bill]

test pattern on paper first and with different chokes like some have already said we just paper tested the wife and found that she is aiming left and low so am going to add a rear sight mark and see if that will help her out and if that does not work I will add proper sights...

[Rotorwash]

I use 3 1/2" BBB or T steel shot out of a .730" choke in my Gold 10. Works well on grouse out to 50 yards. Also coyotes

The pellets always pass through

[Kamlooper]

I run a 20 gauge over under, first shot over barrel IC choke, next barrel M choke (incase I miss with the first shot ;) ) 7.5 2 3/4 shells