Bugling at night

[bruce44]

So I’ll be going elk hunting next week and have decided that I’m going to drive a few logging road 2 hours before sun up and bugle to see where I should go later on. I read somewhere that a guy got in trouble for this because he was hunting at night.

i will be camping in my truck so my gun will be in there. I couldn’t find the old thread that mentioned this but was his gun locked up? I’ll be sleeping in the drivers seat so I literally have nowhere to leave my gun. I was thinking of just deactivating the rifle whilst night calling.

[Steeleco]

The legal answer I don't have, but if you can shoot 1 hr before sun up I wouldn't start calling until then. Ihunter tells you to the minute when you can start and stop hunting right where your standing. Cool feature. As to the gun, as long as it's not loaded within or resting on the vehicle your legal there too!!

Good luck

[Ride Red]

Don’t waste your time bugling unless you plan to hunt that spot as you just educate your prey. When it’s dark you won’t know if you have one coming in silent, which happens lots, then he’s educated as you get in your truck and drive away. Plenty of time at first light to call and having the ability to view your hunting area. Doing so also won’t create any questions of whether you’re night hunting or not.

[J_T]

If you're just firing out location bugles to see what's out there, I might suggest 5 hours before sun up. At 2 hours, you want to be moving in on something. Depends on the area of the Province you are hunting.

The difficulty with road bugling is that a lot of guys do it. And, they do it from a logical spot, somewhere they can view from, or hear from. And, elk seem to know those locations.....

[Looking_4_Jerky]

Don’t waste your time bugling unless you plan to hunt that spot as you just educate your prey. When it’s dark you won’t know if you have one coming in silent, which happens lots, then he’s educated as you get in your truck and drive away. Plenty of time at first light to call and having the ability to view your hunting area. Doing so also won’t create any questions of whether you’re night hunting or not.

Totally agree with this. If one comes in quiet you don't know, and if he comes in hot without you being able to see, he's just gonna circle around you, wind you, and split. The only scenario where it won't ruin your hunt is if it bugles and stays in place, but it would be likely to do the same in the day when you can make a plan based on what you SEE.

All that coupled with the fact you may be in questionable legal ground, and I'm not sure the benefits are there.

[Jrax]

dont forget about the bears, if you decide to bugle at night to locate even if its 5m from the truck i would have my rifle with me for defense. There should be nothing wrong with that legally but i cant say for certain. People practice bugling at home, at night, in their backyards, in their camps, in their trucks, in traffic and why not at 5am with a gun or not. Having a gun does not mean you are hunting and i use my gun all the time for defense at night and am not hunting. I see nothing in the regs about calling moose or elk to see if any are there.

However, there was a recent thread on night bugling and recent thread on bears coming to bugles. Put those two together and the general consensus is that it really isn't that beneficial. I don't do it and my hunting partners dont (anymore). As said, if an elk hears and decides to come you just educate and lose out on a potential target. Get a better sleep, be at a good location at first and last light hunting elk, spend the day finding fresh sign and locating elk. At this time elk can be killed at any time in the day.

[caddisguy]

I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on HBC.

I would go with the legal definition of "hunting" first:

"Hunt & Hunting - includes shooting at,attracting, searching for, chasing, pursuing, following after or on the trail of, stalking, or lying in wait for wildlife or attempting to do any of those things, whether or not the wildlife is then or subsequently wounded, killed or captured a) with intention to capture the wildlife, or (b)while in possession of a firearm or other weapon."

Locking up the gun or deactivating it "might" help with "B" (though you are still in possession of a firearm deactivated or not) but they could probably still get you with "A" (it doesn't specify a timeline for when you intent to kill, so even if you intend to kill it the next day this could still apply)

As with most laws, there is room for interpretation, both letter of the law and spirit of the law. Conservation Officers are stuck with interpreting these laws and how they apply to the scenario as to whether or not there is a violation. It could go either way as to whether or not any given CO believes it is a violation. If they do, it would be up to a judge to decide.

As a hunter, one thing you can do with legal questions such as this is to email the ministry as they are authoritative. Often they can provide clarification in writing and you can print out and keep that clarification to provide in the field if needed.

It is a bummer that everything is not cut and dry. I would say no go on calling before legal light personally... but reading the same definitions above, one could question whether or not it is even legal to search for / retrieve an animal after legal light that was shot during legal light (ie: following a blood trail with hope the animal is down) which I suspect most hunters have done once or twice and never heard of any issues in that regard.

[HighCountryBC]

Driving around at night tossing bugles out to locate bulls clearly falls under the legal definition of hunting and people absolutely have been ticketed for it - rare, but it has happened.

[bruce44]

Thanks for the info. Last year when I had trouble finding any bugling response during the day, I had someone on here tell me to locate them at night then come back the next day. I'll stick to bugling an hour before sunrise. That being said. Isn't it then illegal to get to a tree stand, start hiking to a tree stand or lookout spot if it's more than an hour from sunrise?

[todbartell]

definition in the regs for hunt/hunting :


includes shooting at, attracting, searching for, chasing, pursuing, following after or on the trail of, stalking, or lying in wait for wildlife or attempting to do any of those things, whether or not the wildlife is then or subsequently wounded, killed, or captured

a) with intention to capture the wildlife or
b) while in possession of a firearm or other weapon

[todbartell]

I suppose night bugling could be classified as attracting

[caddisguy]

Thanks for the info. Last year when I had trouble finding any bugling response during the day, I had someone on here tell me to locate them at night then come back the next day. I'll stick to bugling an hour before sunrise. That being said. Isn't it then illegal to get to a tree stand, start hiking to a tree stand or lookout spot if it's more than an hour from sunrise?

My personal opinion is that "hiking in" to a spot or tree stand would not fall under "attracting, searching for, chasing, pursuing, following after or on the trail of, stalking, or lying in wait"

Even sitting in a tree stand, you would be in wait of light and not wildlife in my opinion. If a CO were to think it was a violation they can give a ticket/charge and then a judge can decide. That said, I suspect it is universally agreed up by CO's that walking into a spot or getting up into a tree stand before first light is not a violation as it is so common.

The only way to clarify to be 100% safe on anything is to inquire with the ministry and get a written response.

[j270wsm]

Where is the difference in bugling in the dark and sitting in a tree stand before hunting light. If bugling in the dark is illegal then so should sitting in a tree stand. Both are considered hunting so how is one allowed but not the other.

[caddisguy]

Where is the difference in bugling in the dark and sitting in a tree stand before hunting light. If bugling in the dark is illegal then so should sitting in a tree stand. Both are considered hunting so how is one allowed but not the other.

I think with bugling there is 100% certainty you are looking for or trying to attract animals

Climbing up in a tree stand before first light, you are necessarily looking for or waiting for anything other than for it to get light out.

It is frustrating that we have to speculate and interpret laws as they are laid out to the best of our abilities. CO's are stuck doing the same.

That said, laws can only be so specific. I can understand why some have to be a little vague or broad in nature. It's one of the reasons we have judges. It's not just about judging guilt or innocence... sometimes they are the ones stuck figuring out what the law means, consider the "spirit of the law" in order to decide whether or not the law was broken. Intent is going to be the big factor. Bugling at night you can definitely say someone was looking for or trying to attract animals... but you just can't say that about a guy in a tree stand waiting for it to be legal light without some other proof of intent... now if he was calling or spraying around buck bomb while sitting there, that could be a different story.

Anyway, it is a responsibility of the ministry to clarify the laws they have on the books for those who want to make sure they are in compliance. If there is ever uncertainty about a law and one wants to make sure they are not violating the law, emailing the ministry is the correct contact and the solution for that.

For example, I have a letter from the ministry that clarifies you can use to trap crayfish in lakes that have bait bans or artificial fly only. If I am crayfishing in a lake with a bait ban using bait, I keep a print out of that letter handy as it will help me out and it will help the CO out right there on the spot.

[boxhitch]

Driving around at night tossing bugles out to locate bulls clearly falls under the legal definition of hunting and people absolutely have been ticketed for it - rare, but it has happened.Anyone that didn't challenge that ticket deserves everything he got.