What kind of buck is a big BC buck?

[luger]

So I grew up hunting casually and since I was about 21 ( the last 6 years) I’ve really committed myself to hunting mule deer. I am 100% a meat hunter and I’ve taken the first legal buck that presented itself on all my hunts. I’ve filled the freezer every year with one or more bucks and I’ve put down a couple pretty nice bucks (at least I think they are nice).

What is a good BC buck? It is hard to judge when there so many farmed private ranch fed deer pictures out there. Some of those bucks don’t even seem real.

Here’s my 3 favourite bucks. Are these big bucks or just average bucks? I know there not monsters by any means I’m thinking there fairly average nice 4 points.
Yes I know the one is a blacktail.

https://i.imgur.com/39iT1CT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xn2DwtB.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zx94c5h.jpg

[jac]

Not very big, they are fine bucks but not something I would even consider as big

[fuzzybiscuit]

If the Blacktail was a Vancouver Island buck I’d say it was pretty big. Do they get bigger...sure. But I hunted them for 30 years straight and it would be tough to beat for a Island buck. Mainland though...it’s a good buck but not what I’d consider “Big”.

The two Muley’s while being nice bucks and not close to being “Big” in my opinion.

Don’t let it get you down though, all 3 are great bucks and really good bucks when you consider you really haven’t been hunting that long.

[tinhorse]

For not targeting big deer, those are decent bucks. They are not large BC mule deer antler wise but generally of you want a monster you need to put in the time and be willing to not shoot the first, second or even the 10th legal buck you see...may take many many years to harvest a truly mature large buck. But for meat hunting you are doing extremely well and I would be happy with any of those fine deer. Great job.

[luger]

Thanks
Blacktail is a mainland buck.
Average is what I figured, there great for me as they filled the freezer and they look pretty on the wall.

[quadrakid]

They are nice bucks. If you look at the BC Big Game Records book you will see that when it comes to mulies this province produces BIG mulies. Peace river country produces some big whitetails.Mainland BC some decent blacktails.

[Redthies]

I’d be happy with any of those, but I think there are much bigger ones out there if you choose to only go for bigger ones. The bonus here, is that the smaller ones usually taste better.

[luger]

Thanks, the big game record is nice to give a point of reference. I do wonder how many days in the bush does it take a guy passing up bucks to score a record buck.

[wos]

Thanks, the big game record is nice to give a point of reference. I do wonder how many days in the bush does it take a guy passing up bucks to score a record buck.
30 years of hunting mule deer and my name isn't in the book. Dosen't mean I haven't had the opportunity sometimes the stars just don't quite align.

[fuzzybiscuit]

30 years of hunting mule deer and my name isn't in the book. Dosen't mean I haven't had the opportunity sometimes the stars just don't quite align.

Same here. I’ve shot a couple respectable bucks but they didn’t go book. But, I’ve seen a few that would and that’s what keeps a guy looking...

[twoSevenO]

30 years of hunting mule deer and my name isn't in the book. Dosen't mean I haven't had the opportunity sometimes the stars just don't quite align.

In hunting, you can do everything right, and still fail. And that's ok.

As for the bucks, I would say those bucks are average. Your standard couple years old bucks.

Things in BC have changed over the years. I dont think monster mulies are hitting the ground like they used to in the mid 2000s and earlier. I think the record book entries would probably confirm that.

I would say a BIG buck nowdays is 170" or better.
HUGE WOULD BE 180 or better.

I wont pass on anything that looks 150+

[wos]

In hunting, you can do everything right, and still fail. And that's ok.

As for the bucks, I would say those bucks are average. Your standard couple years old bucks.

Things in BC have changed over the years. I dont think monster mulies are hitting the ground like they used to in the mid 2000s and earlier. I think the record book entries would probably confirm that.

I would say a BIG buck nowdays is 170" or better.
HUGE WOULD BE 180 or better.

I wont pass on anything that looks 150+

Hunting for a trophy buck is really a challenge. First off you can find one in almost any part of bc. But that's just luck. When you really start digging you will start to see genetic defects in areas that produce big deer but will cause them to fall short of the book. Then the hunt for the area that produces good genetics starts. If you think hunting deer takes up a lot of time and money well get ready.

[caddisguy]

Hunting for a trophy buck is really a challenge. First off you can find one in almost any part of bc. But that's just luck. When you really start digging you will start to see genetic defects in areas that produce big deer but will cause them to fall short of the book. Then the hunt for the area that produces good genetics starts. If you think hunting deer takes up a lot of time and money well get ready.

What are the general thoughts around 4 pt season?

I totally get that it is a way to manage people and prevent every hunter single from being successful which could impact populations, but at the same time, there are a lot of bucks with inferior genetics that will live and die as a two point (sometimes a huge massive body two point) and can not be harvested... heck they can walk around in traffic and remain untouchable by hunters... but they get additional living and breeding opportunity for being dumb and genetically inferior while the genetics that produce nice racks are targeted more because they are the only option for meat hunters most of the year.

I honestly have no idea but it is a question I always wonder. Would we actually have more 4 points if there weren't 4 point seasons? Hunters do need to acknowledge that points are not necessarily a sign of majority. I would wager more forks, 3x2's and 3x3's die of old age than 4+ point deer just as more humans die of old age under 5'10 than larger. A 50 year old dude at 5'9 isn't gonna grow "a little bigger next year" (at least in height) and it's often just the same with deer and points... do even 50% of bucks that die of old age ever acquire 4 points? I'm curious to know that.

To me it just seems bad from a genetics perspective, but perhaps necessary for overall numbers.

Disclaimer: I'm just a guy who thinks about stuff and I am not always very good at it

[JoeSixPack]

I would say any mule deer over 160" is a big BC buck. Most deer are probably gonna need 4-6 years of age to get there, and not too many guys get deer in that 5+ age range it seems.

[wos]

I'm not a biologist so I cant say what effect hunting may have on genetics. Hopefully none. The point I was trying to make is my hunting partner and I have definitely been noticing certain areas definitely have bucks with similar traits in their antler configurations that will hold them back from the inches needed to make the book. Personally I have only seen a handful of truly mature 3 point deer that will never get a forth point. It does happen but in my opinion probably not as much as people think.

[Redthies]

Caddisguy- I agree with you. The point system seems counter-intuitive when you look at it from a perspective of breeding potential. You WANT the strongest and smartest bucks breeding with the does. That’s how you get the strongest overall population. I, as a meat hunter, would be totally happy with a two point. But I am forced to target the “better” deer. This obviously helps population numbers, as those better deer are usually smarter/warier and avoid predators and hunters easier than the young and dumb bucks. But when the “better” deer are killed, it has a bigger negative effect on the future generations.

[warnniklz]

My scoring system

https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/119452574_10164421058165387_7224696034930735984_o. jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=0be424&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=8VkPWm12WMAAX86Kkdi&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&tp=14&oh=05fa9906cb9c2643c0967bdd8cc3e305&oe=5F886062

[weatherby_man]

Those pics are dandy bucks, not huge rack wise but beauty healthy looking animals. I dont worry too much about the biggest bucks out there. I have been lucky to harvest 1 over 170 and he was a horse but most of my deer like you were to fill the freezer, thats always been my goal as I have limited time afield usually have 2 weeks max to get it done and I dont usually have many scouting opportunities.

[twoSevenO]

I'm not a biologist so I cant say what effect hunting may have on genetics. Hopefully none. The point I was trying to make is my hunting partner and I have definitely been noticing certain areas definitely have bucks with similar traits in their antler configurations that will hold them back from the inches needed to make the book. Personally I have only seen a handful of truly mature 3 point deer that will never get a forth point. It does happen but in my opinion probably not as much as people think.

Hunting does have an impact on genetics. There are a couple of well known wintering grounds along the Fraser river where there 4 point only season and 3 buck limits decimated the 4 point genetics. That area has a lot of funky bucks and a lot less of them reaching 4 pts than before.

Its insane how long it takes to implement changes in this province. We are likely to Lose all of our damn deer before the province realizes something should be done about the wolves.

[wos]

Hunting does have an impact on genetics. There are a couple of well known wintering grounds along the Fraser river where there 4 point only season and 3 buck limits decimated the 4 point genetics. That area has a lot of funky bucks and a lot less of them reaching 4 pts than before.

Its insane how long it takes to implement changes in this province. We are likely to Lose all of our damn deer before the province realizes something should be done about the wolves.

Yes the wolves are definitely a much larger problem than what people realize.

[Muliechaser]

In hunting, you can do everything right, and still fail. And that's ok.

As for the bucks, I would say those bucks are average. Your standard couple years old bucks.

Things in BC have changed over the years. I dont think monster mulies are hitting the ground like they used to in the mid 2000s and earlier. I think the record book entries would probably confirm that.

I would say a BIG buck nowdays is 170" or better.
HUGE WOULD BE 180 or better.

I wont pass on anything that looks 150+

They aren't hitting the ground like they used to be BUT . Alot of people don't and won't enter there bucks aswell. I for one wouldn't like the attention and don't need to stroke myself with a spot in the book. It's funny the Difference between a 170-180 class buck isn't much by numbers but you can sure see it with your eyes . I'm thankful that thy still exist. Good times

[twoSevenO]

They aren't hitting the ground like they used to be BUT . Alot of people don't and won't enter there bucks aswell. I for one wouldn't like the attention and don't need to stroke myself with a spot in the book. It's funny the Difference between a 170-180 class buck isn't much by numbers but you can sure see it with your eyes . I'm thankful that thy still exist. Good times

That's always been the case. 10, 20, 40 years ago .... you still had people who refused to enter their animals into the record book.

There are plenty of big bucks in the record book. I seriously doubt anyone would give you as much attention as you think you would get :P

[bangbangkhan]

is this a big one? its my first 4+ point white tail.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jXRXT1wDMnBdkH367

i dont know how to embed photos here...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jXRXT1wDMnBdkH367

[Silent But Deadly]

Once you lay your hands on a 180" mule deer you can easily tell the difference between average 4s. In order to shoot big deer you have to be willing to give up the meat hunter mentality.

[fuzzybiscuit]

Once you lay your hands on a 180" mule deer you can easily tell the difference between average 4s. In order to shoot big deer you have to be willing to give up the meat hunter mentality.

That is so true the problem for me is the young ones taste sooooo good that I have a hard time passing up mediocre 4x4’s.

[Muliechaser]

is this a big one? its my first 4+ point white tail.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jXRXT1wDMnBdkH367

i dont know how to embed photos here...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jXRXT1wDMnBdkH367

Excellent whitetail Buck . I would guess 130-150". Great whitetail Buck ! That's a big whitetail for most people . Decent to say the least . Good job

[Muliechaser]

That's always been the case. 10, 20, 40 years ago .... you still had people who refused to enter their animals into the record book.

There are plenty of big bucks in the record book. I seriously doubt anyone would give you as much attention as you think you would get :P

You just never know . They exist and any hunter that puts down a 170+ deer usually garners alot of attention lol. I learned that the hard way . People try to take credit for your harvest or stick there foot in the door to have something to do with it . People are weird . Maybe I'd like the attention but won't admit it lol.

[bangbangkhan]

Thank you! I wasn't sure my self when i scoped it and was pleasantly surprised when i got close to it :P

[weatherby_man]

Yes I would say thats a very good WT buck. Love the brow tines and stickers on him.

[HighCountryBC]

170" is actually about what the average mule deer would get to if it reached maturity.

Words like huge, massive etc. get thrown around a lot. When a guy gets into that 190" range you are starting to look at the next level. A 180" buck is certainly a nice deer but it is not at all what I'd consider "huge".

[HighCountryBC]

What are the general thoughts around 4 pt season?

I totally get that it is a way to manage people and prevent every hunter single from being successful which could impact populations, but at the same time, there are a lot of bucks with inferior genetics that will live and die as a two point (sometimes a huge massive body two point) and can not be harvested... heck they can walk around in traffic and remain untouchable by hunters... but they get additional living and breeding opportunity for being dumb and genetically inferior while the genetics that produce nice racks are targeted more because they are the only option for meat hunters most of the year.

I honestly have no idea but it is a question I always wonder. Would we actually have more 4 points if there weren't 4 point seasons? Hunters do need to acknowledge that points are not necessarily a sign of majority. I would wager more forks, 3x2's and 3x3's die of old age than 4+ point deer just as more humans die of old age under 5'10 than larger. A 50 year old dude at 5'9 isn't gonna grow "a little bigger next year" (at least in height) and it's often just the same with deer and points... do even 50% of bucks that die of old age ever acquire 4 points? I'm curious to know that.

To me it just seems bad from a genetics perspective, but perhaps necessary for overall numbers.

Disclaimer: I'm just a guy who thinks about stuff and I am not always very good at it

I'd suggest guys take a look at the Mule Deer Working Group - A collection of the top wildlife biologists in North America.

Their conclusion on antler point restrictions (4 point seasons):

After decades of use and many evaluations reporting disappointing results, most western states and provinceshave discontinued statewide antler point restrictions. The two main reasons for abandoning widespread antlerpoint restrictions are (1) unacceptable accidental-illegal kill, and (2) harvest mortality was increased (focused) onthe very age classes they intended to promote. Available data and experience suggest antler point restrictions resultin no long-term increase in either the proportion or number of mature bucks, or the total deer population. A fewjurisdictions still have limited areas with antler point restrictions, due to hunter preference. The use of antler pointrestrictions in a combined strategy with general seasons is used in at least one case to maximize hunting opportunity.There are additional reasons why the widespread use of antler point restrictions has not been successful. Researchhas shown buck fawns born to does in poor body condition have difficulty outgrowing the effects of poor bodycondition at birth, and may never reach their genetic potential for antler growth. Regulations protecting thesebucks from harvest are counterproductive to the intended benefit.Most western states and provinces have concluded that sustainable improvements in buck:doe ratios and the numberof mature bucks can only be realized by reducing harvest through 1) a limited-quota license system that decreasesoverall total buck harvest while allowing some level of doe harvest, or 2) setting a very short hunting season in earlyfall when more mature bucks are less vulnerable.It has been suggested while antler point restrictions may increase the proportion of bucks in certain populations withlow buck:doe ratios, there is no evidence they substantially increase the total number of adult (mature) bucks.

A product of the Mule Deer Working Group - Sponsored by the Western Association of Fish & Wildlife Agencies - Approved July 2013Produced with support from the Mule Deer Foundation (www.muledeer.org)More information on mule deer can be found at www.muledeerworkinggroup.com

[Looking_4_Jerky]

I'd say with rare exceptions, the biggest BC mule bucks (broadly based on a typical frame size) go slightly over 200". I'd say there much, much fewer bucks of this caliber (even 170-200) than ever, but I'm guessing that provincially, a handful still hit the dirt every year.