Rage no collar (NC) crossbow broad heads

[Ruger.270]

I'm looking at picking up a pack of these relatively new (2019 they came out I believe) mechanical broad heads that do not require a shock collar or O-ring for my Excalibur micro 355 crossbow.

Everything I've read on the internet is very positive, outside of the price tag. However, if they reliably deploy, cut as well as advertised (2 inch radius) and have close to field point accuracy as most reviewers say, I'm more than happy to pay their price tag to avoid worrying about the shock collar and associated potential mishaps. Certainly I know a lot of guys who have liked the regular rage hypodermic heads, outside of the occasional mishap with the shock collars.

Does anyone have any experience with these no collar broad heads either in crossbow or compound applications?

Also any suggestions as to 100 grain vs 125 grain? That's lighter than anything I've run before, as unfortunately they don't make a 150 to match what I'm currently running on a fixed broad head. Obviously I'll have to re-sight in and then practice more before attempting a hunt.

I'm considering the switch as the fixed broad heads start to open up in their grouping outside of 40 yards, and if that was not the case I would otherwise feel comfortable taking a 50 yard shot in the correct conditions (little to no wind) and on a good broadside stationary target as I am accurate to that distance with field points in my practice. I'm hoping a mechanical head could help get me there, but only if its reliable.

Thanks!

[Ruger.270]

45 views and no reply, surely somebody has tried these broad heads? Hoping not to be a total guinea pig...

[Ruger.270]

Well the update to this is both positive and negative. I put these new broad heads on my new set of black eagle arrows and proceeded to shoot a 3/4 inch group at 40 yards, although the point of impact to the left (about 6 inches) and slightly below my field points though which was annoying.

The big problem was the last shot blew one of the vanes off one of the arrows and the luminock off the other and cracked it as well. Ugh. Expensive mistake.

Impressive accuracy though and the blades all held up very well, even the one that impacted the other two arrows.

Going to get a new set of arrows and try to sight in again... this time not aiming at the same spot on the target each time!

[Danny_29]

Different broadheads will always group differently. You have to tune everytime. I stopped using the rage broadheads even before they came out with the NC though...I found the penetration to be awful. After some research after the fact this is a known thing. I'm currently shooting slick tricks and they group fantastic...I'm shooting accurately out past a 100 with a compound. I also wouldnt trust any mechanical on very steep shots, flat ground I would absolutely use mechanical just not rage.

Woops 125 over 100 everyday for my setup. Ballistics is almost same same and gives me a more accurate FOC. For crossbow I'm not sure the FOC difference on a bolt though...that percentage will determine which you should be using.

[WWBC]

Rage wouldn’t be my first choice for a broad head. The low angle of the blades I think would hinder penetration not to mention less structural integrity than a fixed blade.

I’d much rather shoot a low profile fixed blade that could punch through a shoulder blade if needed.
Not sure about cross bow tuning, but the bolts should be grouping close to the field points if everything is in “tune”.
With you broad heads hitting left it might be a stiff spine reaction? You could try a 125 grain point or some brass to weaken the spine.

[Surrey Boy]

Sorry, I only do fixed blades.

[Danny_29]

I've never shot crossbows before, I'd imagine you'd have to tune to a broadhead though...is that not correct?

[Ruger.270]

I did the whole tuning thing with the fixed blade excalibur 150 grain boltcutters last year. they did work and I successfully harvested 2 turkeys with them, but I wasn't comfortable shooting past 30 yards as the groupings would open up considerably by 40 yards to about 4 or 5 inches (although the general point of impact was similar to the field points). a friend of mine has had great luck with the rage hypodermic mechanical heads in his compound bow for deer out of tree stands, so I thought I'd try something similar for my crossbow along with better bolts (the excalibur bolts are now made by black eagle). I'm going to try another session and see if I just need to adjust my zero, and if this bolt/broad head combo will consistently hit where I am aiming. the fieldpoints I had been shooting were on my old easton arrows, so that likely was a mistake on my part not to shoot the same set of arrows in my practice session.

[IronNoggin]

Tricked out Matrix 380:

https://i.imgur.com/JEL1wdD.jpg

Custom Zombie Slayers with Luminoks:

https://i.imgur.com/oc8pdKR.jpg

85 yards with 125 grain field points:

https://i.imgur.com/ewdMDim.jpg

Banded 125 grain Spitfire (they say you don't need the bands, but it is cheap insurance):

https://i.imgur.com/tXCuoJk.jpg

85 yard accuracy with the Spitfire:

https://i.imgur.com/dIIYJWr.jpg

I'll likely be sticking with the Spits.

Nog

[KBC]

I’m sure this will be an unpopular comment but man, with shots like that at 85 it proves the crossbow game is not the same as even the compound game let alone the trad stuff. I’m a decent shot with my compound but there’s almost no way I could come close to that at 85.

[Ruger.270]

I wouldn't go too far with that sentiment. Ironnoggin is clearly highly experienced and those results he is posting are probably in the top upper echelon of what is possible with a crossbow. the vast majority of guys are going to be shooting 50 yards or even much less, similar to a compound.

Also keep in mind a crossbow is far from the most comfortable, stealthy, or good on follow up shots in terms of a weapon to work with for spot and stalk hunting compared to almost any other weapon (at least in my opinion) so that also levels the playing field.

[Surrey Boy]

^+1

There's no second shot with a crossbow.

I just upgraded because unless I have a clear heart shot, I'm going home empty. A little more range makes a big difference when you can't move easily.

[IronNoggin]

I’m sure this will be an unpopular comment but man, with shots like that at 85 it proves the crossbow game is not the same as even the compound game let alone the trad stuff. I’m a decent shot with my compound but there’s almost no way I could come close to that at 85.

Put over 2 grand into the bow, more on custom arrows, more on custom strings, more on custom triggers, more on aftermarket scope...
Then spent countless hours shooting, cherry picking the best and constantly refining that, shooting, and much MUCH more of the same.
At this point, that particular bow has run through well over 4,000 shots in my hands.
No way in hell anyone just picking one up is going to come even close to matching what I do with it.
Reality.

I also have a handful of dedicated Buddies who shoot compound bows with me.
Several of them can beat my accuracy out to 100 yards and beyond.
Any day of the week.


I wouldn't go too far with that sentiment. Ironnoggin is clearly highly experienced and those results he is posting are probably in the top upper echelon of what is possible with a crossbow. the vast majority of guys are going to be shooting 50 yards or even much less, similar to a compound.

Also keep in mind a crossbow is far from the most comfortable, stealthy, or good on follow up shots in terms of a weapon to work with for spot and stalk hunting compared to almost any other weapon (at least in my opinion) so that also levels the playing field.

Yep. Well said. https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Pozitive.gif

Cheers,
Nog

[fuzzybiscuit]

I'm shooting an Excalibur 440 Bulldog. After sighting in, the first time I shot at 70 yards I put an arrow in another. Other than costing me some money I thought it was pretty cool and a real fluke. Next two shots and I did the same thing. Ouch... Wasn't so funny that time. I shoot regularly out to 100 yards with a Tact 100 scope on mine and most shots I have similar results to Nog albeit maybe not that precise. I don't ever shoot at the same spot twice in a row now....its too expensive. They are very accurate and while I used to shoot a rifle lots I don't shoot as much any more but the Excalibur does make that first shot so much easier than a compound bow. Plus my shoulders are a bit gimpy so I can't shoot a compound bow anymore.

[Danny_29]

Put over 2 grand into the bow, more on custom arrows, more on custom strings, more on custom triggers, more on aftermarket scope...
Then spent countless hours shooting, cherry picking the best and constantly refining that, shooting, and much MUCH more of the same.
At this point, that particular bow has run through well over 4,000 shots in my hands.
No way in hell anyone just picking one up is going to come even close to matching what I do with it.
Reality.

I also have a handful of dedicated Buddies who shoot compound bows with me.
Several of them can beat my accuracy out to 100 yards and beyond.
Any day of the week.



Yep. Well said. https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Pozitive.gif

Cheers,
Nog

Everybody is right.

I can outshoot most guys with my compound compared to a cross bow according to the comments on this thread.

They do sell crossbows that "claim" to be accurate out to a 100 out of the box though.

That's what I feel is unfair. There is no difference in someone putting the time in to extend there range but if all you have to do is spend the money then that equation changes.

[KBC]

Im not saying that doesn’t take effort. I upgraded to a new compound this year and am at at least $3000 after you ad in all the extras like arrows, release, sight, quiver, stabilizer set up etc.

Just like I’m sure you have spent.

I then go through a similar tuning process and weed out the arrows that don’t fly the best etc. And shoot as much as I can. I can shoot a group about the size of a twonie at 40 yards if I’m shooting good. There’s no way I can shoot like that at 85. Most guys won’t get your results but I’ve seen more than one guy at the range borrow a crossbow and spend a couple hours sighting it in and practicing and they can shoot just fine after an afternoon out to at least 50. It’s not the same game.

I apologize to the OP. If anyone wants to have a reasonable debate, say the word and I’d be happy to start a new thread without name calling.


Put over 2 grand into the bow, more on custom arrows, more on custom strings, more on custom triggers, more on aftermarket scope...
Then spent countless hours shooting, cherry picking the best and constantly refining that, shooting, and much MUCH more of the same.
At this point, that particular bow has run through well over 4,000 shots in my hands.
No way in hell anyone just picking one up is going to come even close to matching what I do with it.
Reality.

I also have a handful of dedicated Buddies who shoot compound bows with me.
Several of them can beat my accuracy out to 100 yards and beyond.
Any day of the week.



Yep. Well said. https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Pozitive.gif

Cheers,
Nog

[Ruger.270]

You still have to practice good technique though, no different than spending thousands on a high end rifle and scope combo, you’ll usually be able to shoot longer and more accurately if you spend thousands on a Sako with a Swarovski than if you spend 300 bucks on some junky savage combo from cabelas or whatever.

[IronNoggin]

... It’s not the same game.


Guess you missed this part:


I also have a handful of dedicated Buddies who shoot compound bows with me.
Several of them can beat my accuracy out to 100 yards and beyond.
Any day of the week.

Accuracy from either a vertical bow or a horizontal one takes practice.
And while more is needed in the vertical case, they are both largely subject to the same limitations.
And from what I have seen, one can be equally as accurate with either given the right amount of effort to do so.

Finally, we're kind of talking apples and oranges here anyway.
While my bow is accurate to 100 yards, we are discussing Target Shooting here.
NOT Hunting Ranges which are much shorter given the constraints of hunting with an arrow.

Cheers,
Nog

[KBC]

I didn’t miss it, I just don’t buy it. If your buddies are that good they should be out there beating guys like Levi Morgan.
I can agree to disagree in some cases and this is one of them. If you were running iron sights then the gap is definitely a bit closer but with a scope I don’t think it is.

[IronNoggin]

I didn’t miss it, I just don’t buy it. If your buddies are that good they should be out there beating guys like Levi Morgan.

They are that good.
And I rather resent your insinuation that I would lie over such an insignificant matter.

Nog

[Ruger.270]

Hey IronNoggin - any intel on where a guy can find those spitfire heads you are running? I'd be interested in picking up a pack to compare accuracy to what I'm trying now. Google didn't turn up a heck of a lot for me locally. I'd rather buy from the Island instead of ordering off Amazon if possible (I'm in Nanaimo).

Any thoughts from your experience as to 100 vs 125 vs 150 grain heads when running the micro bows, noting the 16.5 inch bolt length?

[KBC]

They are that good.
And I rather resent your insinuation that I would lie over such an insignificant matter.

Nog
Well I don’t know you other than what you post on here and you seem like a nice guy so I’m not looking to piss you off. I just have a different opinion than you.

If your buddies are that good I would love to get coached by them. If they can outshoot a crossbow with a compound out to 100 yards and beyond, it would be an honour to learn from them. I’m not saying that tongue in cheek, if they want to coach someone and are that good send me a PM.

[Sitkaspruce]

This argument is pointless. Who cares if Nog can shoot groups at 80 or 100 yards? That to me means a much more ethical hunter and shooter. Much better that the "hunter" who shoots once a year at 20 then thinks that with the scope they can shoot ethically out to 50+. This argument is really no different than the hunters who who shoot at 100 and the hunters who shoot at 1000. Rangefinders/scopes/cartridges' can make a person shoot longer distances, but you still need to practice/practice/practice.


Hey IronNoggin - any intel on where a guy can find those spitfire heads you are running? I'd be interested in picking up a pack to compare accuracy to what I'm trying now. Google didn't turn up a heck of a lot for me locally. I'd rather buy from the Island instead of ordering off Amazon if possible (I'm in Nanaimo).

Any thoughts from your experience as to 100 vs 125 vs 150 grain heads when running the micro bows, noting the 16.5 inch bolt length?

Ruger, I shoot the 125 Spits out of my 350SE Matrix based on Nogs experiences and have had great luck with them. But since they are now made offshore and have a less than stellar reputation with hunters, I would look at another head. I managed to find three sets of heads and 5 packages of extra blades all made in the USA and since I only shoot one animal a year, I think I am set up for a while. Go to the Excal forum and there is tons of discussion on what heads are good and what are not so good.

Cheers

SS

[Ruger.270]

Good to know, thanks Sitka. I have checked out that other forum. Tough thing is so many different heads being recommended it’s a bit hard to pick one out of the blue. I’m going to try another session with my crossbow this weekend and hopefully won’t wreck any more arrows

[IronNoggin]

Hey IronNoggin - any intel on where a guy can find those spitfire heads you are running? I'd be interested in picking up a pack to compare accuracy to what I'm trying now.

As Sitka noted, NAP moved their production offshore. They are quite inferior to those that were once produced in the US. I tried these offshore ones - first shot and the damn thing opened prematurely. Sent them back with a Never Again note to NAP.
I have around 15 or so on hand, and a few of the replacement kits that were all made in the US. When those run out, I too will be looking.


Any thoughts from your experience as to 100 vs 125 vs 150 grain heads when running the micro bows, noting the 16.5 inch bolt length?

Never shot one. Best bet would be to inquire on the Excalibur Forum: https://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/phpBB3/

KBC: Although one of the Ladz used to teach, neither he nor any of the others do so these days.

Sitka: Wise words as usual my friend. Appreciated. Have a safe & successful season up there!

Cheers,
Nog

[Ruger.270]

As Sitka noted, NAP moved their production offshore. They are quite inferior to those that were once produced in the US. I tried these offshore ones - first shot and the damn thing opened prematurely. Sent them back with a Never Again note to NAP.
I have around 15 or so on hand, and a few of the replacement kits that were all made in the US. When those run out, I too will be looking.



Never shot one. Best bet would be to inquire on the Excalibur Forum: https://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/phpBB3/

KBC: Although one of the Ladz used to teach, neither he nor any of the others do so these days.

Sitka: Wise words as usual my friend. Appreciated. Have a safe & successful season up there!

Cheers,
Nog

Thanks IronNoggin.

[WWBC]

Might be applicable.

The. “Lethal Podcast” just released a podcast about building more effective cross bow bolts.
might be worth a listen?

[Ruger.270]

So tried it again this weekend and very annoyed. Sighted in with the new arrows and field points. 1 inch 5 shot group at 40 yards. Switch to the broad heads and bang on at 20 and 30, then all over the map in about a 6 inch group but consistently low at 40 yards.

unless the broad heads advertised as 100 grains weigh more than the field points I don’t know what to think.

has anyone heard much for reviews on the new Excalibur trailblazer heads? They sound interesting but very few reviews out there. 100 or 150 grain mechanical. Supposedly can stand up to crossbow speeds without banding or premature opening.

[Ruger.270]

Update to this saga - I picked up a pack of the Excalibur trailblazer heads in 150 grain - they are consistently within an inch of my field points out to 40 yards. Unfortunately the one I had designated as my practice head broke after a half dozen shots so I didn't test them out further yet, although as a new crossbow hunter I probably wouldn't take a shot much further than that anyways. Very pleased with the accuracy results, hopefully that was just a lemon as far as durability goes. These things certainly look heavy duty and have a wide cutting diameter with 3 blades. Some Facebook photos I found show some pretty huge exit holes and large/short blood trails.