Deer Strategy Question

[Would Rather Be Fishing]

One of the areas I have been scouting has several blacktail does (with fawns) consistently on camera for the past 4 months. Pretty much daily occurrences (surprising as I also see bears and 1 cougar). No bucks, though.
Now, with opening day behind us, how would you treat this? Find the doe find the bucks? Still hunt the area and wait for the bucks? Or will does typically move on come rut?

Guess the question boils down to: You know where the does are, do you hang out, even though you don't see any bucks, or move on?

[caddisguy]

One of the areas I have been scouting has several blacktail does (with fawns) consistently on camera for the past 4 months. Pretty much daily occurrences (surprising as I also see bears and 1 cougar). No bucks, though.
Now, with opening day behind us, how would you treat this? Find the bucks find the doe? Still hunt the area and wait for the bucks? Or will does typically move on come rut?

Guess the question boils down to: You know where the does are, do you hang out, even though you don't see any bucks, or move on?

If there are no bucks on the cameras I would be a little bit discouraged, at least this time of year. If the does are still there third week of October I would be excited.

I hunted an area like that year after year as I had a habit of hunting where I wanted the bucks to be and not where they were. There were lots of does and the kicker was that they would move on for the most part prior to the rut. Changed areas and what to you know? Seeing bucks now.

Another thing though. Just because you aren't seeing them on the cameras doesn't mean they aren't around. Sometimes they use different side trails or seemingly no trails. In the area we got our buck last week, I had been running 4 cams and there were only does on those cams. Got the buck around 50 yards as the crow flies from one of said cams.

I'm no deer expert by any means, probably one of the least successful deer hunters on the planet, but I might be inclined to put in some more time (boots on the ground) in the area you are describing and check around a little more vs relying on cameras. The only thing I can say for certain is that cameras are generally extremely deceiving. You look at a years with of footage half a dozen cams and "think" you know what is there but then scout around in person and see all sorts of animals that somehow managed to not pass by any of the cameras. Sooo... don't be discouraged on cams alone... but if you have put in a lot of time scouting in person year round, don't make the same mistake I did and focus on it for 6 or 7 years thinking you "just need to figure out the area a little more to unlock the secret" :)

[Fella]

If there are no bucks on the cameras I would be a little bit discouraged, at least this time of year. If the does are still there third week of October I would be excited.

I hunted an area like that year after year as I had a habit of hunting where I wanted the bucks to be and not where they were. There were lots of does and the kicker was that they would move on for the most part prior to the rut. Changed areas and what to you know? Seeing bucks now.

Another thing though. Just because you aren't seeing them on the cameras doesn't mean they aren't around. Sometimes they use different side trails or seemingly no trails. In the area we got our buck last week, I had been running 4 cams and there were only does on those cams. Got the buck around 50 yards as the crow flies from one of said cams.

I'm no deer expert by any means, probably one of the least successful deer hunters on the planet, but I might be inclined to put in some more time (boots on the ground) in the area you are describing and check around a little more vs relying on cameras. The only thing I can say for certain is that cameras are generally extremely deceiving. You look at a years with of footage half a dozen cams and "think" you know what is there but then scout around in person and see all sorts of animals that somehow managed to not pass by any of the cameras. Sooo... don't be discouraged on cams alone... but if you have put in a lot of time scouting in person year round, don't make the same mistake I did and focus on it for 6 or 7 years thinking you "just need to figure out the area a little more to unlock the secret" :)
This is good advice. In one of my spots I was only seeing does as well but occasionally there was a monster deer track. Didn’t see that buck at all until last day of the season, December 10 when I bumped into him with a doe. Long story, didn’t even get a shot off. But I had also seen sign where he had pushed a smaller buck off from the doe so that’s 2 bucks I didn’t get on cam that were there.

[brian]

Do the deer migrate out of this area? Is it high elevation? If the does are still there in the rut, then the bucks will show up too. It’s also very common to see more doe activity Than buck.

[Would Rather Be Fishing]

Thanks for all the good advise, will just see what happens come November...


when I bumped him with a doe.....

Read that wrong the first time, gave me a good chuckle ;-) Guess what happens in the woods, stays in the woods? No judgement ;-)

[Fella]

Thanks for all the good advise, will just see what happens come November...



Read that wrong the first time, gave me a good chuckle ;-) Guess what happens in the woods, stays in the woods? No judgement ;-)

*Banjo music intensifies*

[Bugle M In]

Migration is the big thing to consider.
I hunted in the Kettle, years ago, in the Alpine.
Early season, they are there.
But they migrate out.

And same where i hunt now, it is a wintering area.
So, there might be the odd deer that hangs in there now, but i wouldnt expect to get many pics right now.
Come November, and "under normal winter conditions" (not the case for years now however), suddenly there are way more Doe and yes, bucks suddenly
showing up.

Now, due to winters being milder, or should i say way less snow fall, deer may hang higher up.

So, its about time of year, migration area vs winter range area, and the conditions of the weather, imo.
You are seeing Does, so they might be local, and come winter, if this is a wintering area, you will see more Doe come in, and thus bucks as well.
Or, this is an area where they will all go elsewhere, to a true wintering area.

[Stillhunting]

Are you noticing any buck sign, rubs, scrapes, large tracks? What does the sign tell you?

[Bugle M In]

^^^^yup, old rubs (since it is too early for rut yet) will let you know if you are in a possibly good spot for November!

[brian]

Bucks will be rubbing their velvet off around now. You should see some rubs showing up. But the bucks will also still be in their bachelor groups. Finding them is a bit more hit and miss. You hit, you hit big. You miss and they seem like ghosts. They’ll go super secretive once the velvet is off.

[Cdog]

I read that bucks don't hang with does typically letting the does and fawns feed on the most nutrient rich part of the forest while the bucks usually are on the fringes either higher up or lower than the does. This is a survival pattern that ensures future offspring. Of course this changes during the rut.

[Muledeercrazy2]

Migration is the big thing to consider.
I hunted in the Kettle, years ago, in the Alpine.
Early season, they are there.
But they migrate out.

And same where i hunt now, it is a wintering area.
So, there might be the odd deer that hangs in there now, but i wouldnt expect to get many pics right now.
Come November, and "under normal winter conditions" (not the case for years now however), suddenly there are way more Doe and yes, bucks suddenly
showing up.

Now, due to winters being milder, or should i say way less snow fall, deer may hang higher up.

So, its about time of year, migration area vs winter range area, and the conditions of the weather, imo.
You are seeing Does, so they might be local, and come winter, if this is a wintering area, you will see more Doe come in, and thus bucks as well.
Or, this is an area where they will all go elsewhere, to a true wintering area.


In my questionable experience blacktails often dont migrate much. On the island their wintering ground vs. summer habitat was often within a Km of each other. A lot different than mule deer that might have to go 50km to get to a better spot to winter. I didn't hunt much in some of the higher ground on the lower island, so maybe a limited perspective.

[brian]

I read that bucks don't hang with does typically letting the does and fawns feed on the most nutrient rich part of the forest while the bucks usually are on the fringes either higher up or lower than the does. This is a survival pattern that ensures future offspring. Of course this changes during the rut.

in my experience, yes pre-rut the bucks and does don’t hang. They just don’t have much interest in each other. The bucks seem to like hanging out in places where they can be left alone. Read that as the places we don’t want to go. Places that are hard to hunt in areas that have any hunting pressure. Given most places have lower buck to doe ratios and bucks are hunted harder, it’s just generally harder to find them. I have seen spikes hanging around does early on. But I usually suspect it is last years fawn still hanging around. It gets dicey when the bucks are ready to breed and the does want nothing to do with them. Then you get a lot of running around and chasing. Finally the does are receptive, then find does and there is a good chance a buck will be sniffing around somewhere too.

[brian]

You are also right, low elevation mild winter areas will see little or no migrations. Bucks in rut will travel quite far to find receptive does though.

[caddisguy]

You are also right, low elevation mild winter areas will see little or no migrations. Bucks in rut will travel quite far to find receptive does though.

I used to hunt this one spot around 600-700M in Region 2. It seemed to have does all over the place and some great bucks (5x5's, 4x4, 4x3 etc) until the end of August. After that, I would see less than half the number of does and a couple smaller bucks (spike, fork)

I always figured those bucks and the rest of the does were around, still up on this little mountain / knob. I pounded it for about 6 years before giving up. I took interest in another spot in the valley bottom just down from there and started seeing a few bucks on the cams as well as a couple really great bucks cruising through nose to the ground. It seemed promising so I focused on that for a couple of seasons. I never did get a buck out of there, but now the blacktail / mule-hybrid to whitetail ratio is about 1:5 in that little pocket so I gave up on it, at least for now.

Late last season I started hunting a different part of the valley late season last year and was seeing does out in the open during the day which seemed promising. I hit up the same sport early season this year and show enough got one with my bow. Now there are whitetails showing up there though. My freezers are full but I am going to keep scouting it this fall and "hunting with a camera" (unless I can free up enough space in the freezers for another buck before the rut)

Anyway I really don't know what to make of those deer magically disappearing early fall from that one spot. It's not due to snow, that is for certain. Everything I ever read about "resident blacktails" is that they often live and die within a 2km grid. I am starting to think either that is simply untrue or that pocket is an anomaly. Very confusing. I think focusing on it so much set my back a long way in deer hunting. For what it's worth, I only ever found 1 shed (a 5 point) up that little knob. Maybe it's possible they are still in that 2km grid and I am just not finding them? Maybe... but with the explosion of whitetails I just can't be bothered anymore.

Figured I would bounce that off you as you seem to know a lot about BT movements. If you have any guesses as to what was going on (before the whitetail explosion) I'd love to hear.

[brian]

End of August is a season shift in a lot of areas. Available feeds are shifting, antlers are finally hardening up and velvet being shed, nights are getting colder, and hunters are in the woods. Personally I think that last factor makes a huge difference. It could be that a favoured food source opened up elsewhere and the pocket of activity shifted either temporarily or permanently, hunting pressure moved them into different patterns, or they migrated to the valley bottoms. I remember my days of hunting region 2, it seemed to be all about getting the elevation right. But areas would dry up quickly and leave me scratching my head. Now I hunt low elevation resident deer with little migration in region 1. I know the area very well and am not surprised to see overall usage pattern changes right around season opener late August/early September.

edit, I was just rereading your post and wanted to add. That 2km in Bush is really a big area when you break it down, with lots of opportunity for small concentrated pockets of use. The deer won’t use that 2km evenly. They will have pockets of use which can shift on a dime. How they use food sources still baffle me sometimes. A lot of the when and where movement patterns shift for seemingly unknown reasons. I remember being stumped one year when everything felt different. It was not coming together. Then I found a cougar kill sight that had multiple deer skeletons. Then it made sense. Same situation years later, movement patterns seemed off, Then I found somebody had built a mountain biking trail right through the best bedding grounds. I am just saying a lot of things can shift how they use their home areas, even if they are resident animals.

[caddisguy]

Thanks Brian. Very good insight and much appreciated.