Region 7 Calf Season

[Orangethunder]

What are the general thoughts on this opening? I cant really figure out the rationale behind it. I would think that you would want to give them a chance to contribute to the population for a year or two. I am not against it but I dont think I can get excited about shooting calves. I will add that they taste pretty good though.

[BCrams]

My favorite season for moose here !!! It would take me a few minutes to tally up the number of calves my dad and I have taken over the years !!

[todbartell]

I used to be against it, but now I figure we might as well kill them before the wolves eat them all anyways

[Stone Sheep Steve]

The only reason BCrams likes the calf moose season so much is that there is no lamb season on Stone's sheep:shock:................................:p


SSS

[Orangethunder]

I used to be against it, but now I figure we might as well kill them before the wolves eat them all anyways

How do we know we aren't shooting the ones that the wolves aren't going to eat:-??

[sako7mm]

I questioned this season myself when I was in PG a number of years ago. The story behind the calf season is that the calves that are generally harvested are from the newer mom's who are inexperienced in caring for their young, along with the LEH cow season there is less chance at leaving a calf by itself as it opens it up for harvest by a partner although you are supposed to harvest the calf....

At least this is how it was explained to me and it kinda makes sense.

[300WM]

Mmmmmmmm......calf meat........natures veal......

[Maxx]

It is the dumbest season in the Province, bar none....

[butcher]

I think Grade 8 volleyball is a pretty dumb season too.

[270WIN]

Well my thought on the topic is I guess the biologist feel we need a calf season to keep the moose numbers manageable for the area goes along with the cow season . I have hunted the calf season and not lucky enough to take one I did see a calf taken and yes it was very good eating. Me my self could never take a calf nor do I ever put in for cow moose both do not appeal to me to hunt any more . that is just my personal feeling though and if some one want to hunt calf or cows well have at her.

[Will]

We used to take a few region 7 Calves every year...didn't hurt my feelings, Dam tastey too:smile:
Better then seeing them pasted all over the highways;-)

[moose hunter]

I used to be all for it ,but the moose population has dropped so much i think it should be one calf per person every 2 years might help things along.

[BlacktailStalker]

I whacked a calf 3 years ago.
It was so good, I still have the after taste :)

[mark]

It is the dumbest season in the Province, bar none....

I have to agree!!! Why wack the babies?????? Thats not leaving much for seed! I bet they taste great, but I couldnt do it!

[big game walker hounds]

truthfullfy love to see the season closed, will bring the moose numbers up again. cow hunters that shoot the cow and leave the calf running around, to me are ignerant, that calf wont make it through the winter. cow season should be shut down to.

[.308win]

I don't dissagree with the calf season, But I for one will be not rushing out to get a calf! Took one once on a cow/calf draw, the tast was not much to be desired!! There was no tast!

Perry

[Orangethunder]

I don't dissagree with the calf season, But I for one will be not rushing out to get a calf! Took one once on a cow/calf draw, the tast was not much to be desired!! There was no tast!

Perry

You have to realize that your sophisticated eastern palate puts ours to shame8). I will step up and offer all of my rutty muley for your calf meat. This is a one time offer...

[Paulyman]

You have to realize that your sophisticated eastern palate puts ours to shame8). I will step up and offer all of my rutty muley for your calf meat. This is a one time offer...


Nice work Orange thunder, that's pretty funny!

[.308win]

You have to realize that your sophisticated eastern palate puts ours to shame8). I will step up and offer all of my rutty muley for your calf meat. This is a one time offer...

Your on!!!...LOL!

Perry

[curt]

i have never been able to wrap my head around this season although i have taken part and damn right they are tasty i have yet to hear a rational that really justifies it. here's a thought in finland and a few other places they have general open seasons if it's a moose you can shoot it and they have bar non one of the healthiest herds on the planet it's a thought?????????

[Krico]

I used to be all for it ,but the moose population has dropped so much i think it should be one calf per person every 2 years might help things along.

Do you have any evidence/statistics to back this up? Or is this just your personal opinion?
I haven't noticed any lack of moose lately. The regulations have not had any major changes to indicate the biologists are concerned with moose numbers either.

[3kills]

i m all for it and i m headin up there this weekend and i m going to try and put one in my freezer...

[SLIK]

For about 3 years now I've lived with a few UNBC fish and wildlife students up here in Prince George. I asked the same question when I found out about the calf season.
Apparently it has to do with food source. The calf is the smallest out of the 3 (calf, cow, bull) so due it's height it has the most limited food source. They figure By killing off a bunch of them you give the other ones a better chance of surviving by making more food available to them.
I don't know if this is a theory or a fact, but all 3 roommates had the same opinion.

[big game walker hounds]

ya but what happens, when say only 25 - 30 % of calves make it through the winter, with say 10 - 15 % normal winter kill on them, 50 cows being taken, 150 bulls being taken, then roughly 35- 40% inmatures being taken, with the same amount of winter kill being indicated towards them. your not giving then younger stalk the chance to bring up there numbers, ive hunted 710- and 711 for 16 years and let me tell you moose numbers are dropping, isecially in the bull's point of intrest. and another the way the bioligest do there counts is unacurite.

[NEEHAMA]

it's very simple. if the numbers are there then great have a veal season. if the numbers tapper off, end the season until such time as it's comes back up.

no different than the Sockeye season this year.

[MB_Boy]

. here's a thought in finland and a few other places they have general open seasons if it's a moose you can shoot it and they have bar non one of the healthiest herds on the planet it's a thought?????????

Yes they do have healthy populations....but they also have a different philosophy over there and essentially NO natural predators.

In Sweden they have a great deal of game clubs which have exclusive access to certain areas....they protect and won't harvest (for the most part) big mature bulls as they want them around for breeding. It has been a long time since I got the full rundown of how things worked over there, but there philosphies are or were somewhat different from ours in North America.

I don't think I would bother pursuing a calf in a season, but I would still love to taste one of the little fellers. :wink:

[moose hunter]

Do you have any evidence/statistics to back this up? Or is this just your personal opinion?
I haven't noticed any lack of moose lately. The regulations have not had any major changes to indicate the biologists are concerned with moose numbers either.

I sure have and ive only been hunting for about 10 years now and when i was little we would go moose hunting for a day and see 5-6 moose and now i can go hunting for a day and not even see a track even in spots that used to have tons of moose now have barely any, it may also not be the biologists are concerened with animal numbers as the gov is concerned with money.

[MB_Boy]

I sure have and ive only been hunting for about 10 years now and when i was little we would go moose hunting for a day and see 5-6 moose and now i can go hunting for a day and not even see a track even in spots that used to have tons of moose now have barely any, it may also not be the biologists are concerened with animal numbers as the gov is concerned with money.

Moose Hunter.....with all due respect you are 15 or 16 years old and what you saw when you were in kindergarten vs now are NOT statisitics. Those are observations and I have to question what you remember when you were "hunting" at 5 years old.

[GoatGuy]

Long and short of it: Mortality, food sources, skewed sex ratios and bringing populations back up through regulations while maintaining opportunity. Finally, it's hunter opportunity.

I don't have anything on the computer, it's all in hard copy. I'm sure a search would turn something up. Calf seasons are used all over the world for different reasons.

Long and the short of it is if you folks want LEH only in 7A and no calf/immature bull moose season to hunt every single year when you don't get an LEH put in for region 5! :lol: You can ask them how they like average odds of 12:1 annually and no opportunity to hunt any kind of GOS.

7As last count in 2005 or 06 was up - not sure about things now as everyone and their dog has apparently seen massive winterkill.:roll:

[SLIK]

I sure have and ive only been hunting for about 10 years now and when i was little we would go moose hunting for a day and see 5-6 moose and now i can go hunting for a day and not even see a track even in spots that used to have tons of moose now have barely any, it may also not be the biologists are concerened with animal numbers as the gov is concerned with money.

Not seeing any moose isn't really direct evidence.
I can't say the biologists are calculating the moose population in the most accurate ways. But if you look at the available habitat, the numbers should be rising.
Think about how many more cutblocks have been created in the last 5 years. Also have you ever noticed how around every wetland there is at least a 50 ft. perimeter left behind for cover. This allows sunlight to help the underbrush grow.
Our winters are much milder, you'd think winter kill would be less. The wolf population is pretty high, due to an increased food source.
But as far as not seeing very many, I'm with you there. I've put a ridiculous amount of time in this year trying to fill my LEH tag. All I've seen is about 8 cows, 3 calves and 2 bulls. Both bulls were in the wrong area so no go.
My excuses this season so far are the mild weather we've had and Idiot hunters. I ussually see the most animals when my fingers are freezing. I've worn gloves once this season. Nothing's moving around, half the time I don't even need a jacket (I'm a hiker though). Second, I'm sick and tired of ATV's and their idiot owners. I mean give me a break, this last weekend we were stairing down these two cows when two ATV's came around the corner. Both cows ducked into the bush. ATV guys never saw them, only one guy saw me.....waving at him through his scope. As soon as they left the cows came out.
I'm convinced there is an increase of ATV's on harder access roads and their spooking the animals out. Even truck hunters are better than ATV's, I look at them as carpoolers (only one vehicle running) and applaude.
When we bring an ATV it stays in the truck till something is down. That's the way I think it should be. Besides you end up seeing way more and it's actually hunting, not gambling.

[rfraser]

If someone seen them at 5 years old, doesn't really matter how old they were/are they still seem them, and if they see a lot less now than they did before, well maybe its not 100% accurate, but personal observation of an area over a period of time still has to count for something...shouldnt matter how old someone is, if you remember the past ten years whether your 15 or 50, its still ten years. and whats the difference between learning how to hunt at 5 and learning how to hunt at 30, you still gotta learn the ropes, only difference is that at 5 you arnt strong enough to handle the .300 mag :)

[The Dawg]

I am all for it. Its a small opening and I dont think that the total number taken is going to affect the population too much. As with everything else, moderation is the key.

I have seen quite a few calf moose this year, and took a spike bull.

Just about every time out, I see sign and calves...could be willing to trade some info for calves for bucks :cool:

[MB_Boy]

If someone seen them at 5 years old, doesn't really matter how old they were/are they still seem them, and if they see a lot less now than they did before, well maybe its not 100% accurate, but personal observation of an area over a period of time still has to count for something...shouldnt matter how old someone is, if you remember the past ten years whether your 15 or 50, its still ten years. and whats the difference between learning how to hunt at 5 and learning how to hunt at 30, you still gotta learn the ropes, only difference is that at 5 you arnt strong enough to handle the .300 mag :)

rfraser....

I would seriously question what a child remembers seeing at 5 years old vs their mid-teen years. Maybe what Dad recollects back in the "day" in the late 90's.

Observations are not statisitics which was the question posed. It has become increasingly obvious reading these forums that there is a definite discrepancy in what people are "seeing" out there. Some are seeing moose and some are convinced that traffic is to blame, and some are convinced it is ticks, wolves and a harsh winter.

I agree observation of hunters, guides, surveyors, loggers etc etc is all valuable feedback but let's take it for what it is......an observation and not a statistic. There are any one of a number of factors that can move any game out of an area and let's not forget population cycles as well.

Oh....and by the way.....welcome to HBC!! :biggrin: Just noticed that was your first post.

[Bullmoose]

With a healthy population there may be some justification for a cow/calf season, but I've hunted hard in 7-11 and the last two years have been really poor. this year I talked to hunters in 4 camps who had hunted at total of 168 mandays (late Sept. mid Oct.) and they had seen a total of 7 moose, (4 large bulls, 1 spike fork, 2 cows, and no calfs). There are wolf tracks everywhere. Somebody in Environment better wake up before the moose goes the way of the cod and salmon or a repeat of the catastrophre in Region 5 or the loss of elk in the Kootenays. How many remember the LEH regs. a few short years ago that had thousands of cow/calf elk in the Kootenays and now ???

[big game walker hounds]

exactly, another thing to look at the size of the cutblocks now, moose dont like that, they push out, now there are more and more couagrs and wolves showing up around there, and a 50 foot buffer is not enough cover, not saying, or questioning the logging practices up there, but the wildlife branch needs to get out of timhortons and there office and spend some more time in the bush. let alone that vantige spray they are using now, band years ago on the island, now beeing used up there, it kills all the vegitation moose and deer eat, berries the grouse eat, it gets into all the water sources. lots to think about, they get payed to do there job, not to take satistics from us then dictate whats done.

[rfraser]

rfraser....

I would seriously question what a child remembers seeing at 5 years old vs their mid-teen years. Maybe what Dad recollects back in the "day" in the late 90's.

Observations are not statisitics which was the question posed. It has become increasingly obvious reading these forums that there is a definite discrepancy in what people are "seeing" out there. Some are seeing moose and some are convinced that traffic is to blame, and some are convinced it is ticks, wolves and a harsh winter.

I agree observation of hunters, guides, surveyors, loggers etc etc is all valuable feedback but let's take it for what it is......an observation and not a statistic. There are any one of a number of factors that can move any game out of an area and let's not forget population cycles as well.

Oh....and by the way.....welcome to HBC!! :biggrin: Just noticed that was your first post.


Thanks for the welcome...didnt mean to be rude at all, hope it wasnt taken that way, it was an opinionated response, but i had a hard time swallowing it about the young people...i just feel that a lot of the guys (at least back home (Nova Scotia) the older hunters arnt very encouraging to the younger generation of hunters...

anyways im really enjoying the posts, and hope they keep coming

[Will]

I do find it amazing how the same Folks that would Gladly wack an Immature Spike Bull....turn thier noses up at the thought of a "Calf" season.........What's the difference ?
About 12 Months in most cases....;-)

[Orangethunder]

Your right about the numerical difference Will but I find the cow running around frantically bawling and chasing you somewhat less satisfying than seeing a two point bull hit the ground:cool:.

Each to their own.

[Will]

Your right about the numerical difference Will but I find the cow running around frantically bawling and chasing you somewhat less satisfying than seeing a two point bull hit the ground:cool:.

Each to their own.
It's all part of the experience.........;)
Man did your post ever bring back a memory......my Bud, myself, pitch black, mckenzie...gutting a calf with Momma thrashing around in the willows behind us....thought we were gonna get stomped for sure.....quickest gut job I've ever been a part of I'll tell you that !

[Krico]

I sure have and ive only been hunting for about 10 years now and when i was little we would go moose hunting for a day and see 5-6 moose and now i can go hunting for a day and not even see a track even in spots that used to have tons of moose now have barely any, it may also not be the biologists are concerened with animal numbers as the gov is concerned with money.

You sure don't. Those are the personal observations of one hunter, not the slightest bit scientific.

And to suggest the biologists do not care about animal numbers is ridiculous. Do you think those guys went to university for 4 years to get a biology degree so they could increase government revenue through moose tags?

Biologists concern themselves with animals. Bean counters concern themselves with money.

All indications are that the moose population around here is stable, which to me indicates that the current management strategy is working.

[horshur]

How many flights did the bean counters give the bios???was it a cloudy day???I bet the beanies don't give the bios what they need to really know.

[Krico]

How many flights did the bean counters give the bios???was it a cloudy day???I bet the beanies don't give the bios what they need to really know.

I have no idea how many flights-but I'll bet it's more than moose hunter made. Like every other working person out there, I'm sure the bios would love more resources to be more effective at their job. And what do clouds have to do with moose numbers?

[horshur]

And what do clouds have to do with moose numbers?

One budgeted flight scheduled on a cloudy day is not going to see many moose.

[Krico]

One budgeted flight scheduled on a cloudy day is not going to see many moose.

I'm sure they don't head out and take pictures of the tops of clouds, just because the weather is crappy. There is such a thing as rescheduling.

[WHITE HUNTERX]

I would like to think our bioligists have it all figured out but? do they.

[horshur]

I'm sure they don't head out and take pictures of the tops of clouds, just because the weather is crappy. There is such a thing as rescheduling.

well there sure was a pretty fishy game count that resulted in reduced LEH allotments this past winter in one zone.Lotsa moose still stumbling around though. Thick with wolves in Mountain Caribou habitat where I had assumed they would up allotments on moose because of the mountain caribou.......To much political stuff going on for bios who may or may not have a clue what is going on--there is the deal about the "Peter" principle being only promoted to your level of incompentcy that is hard to ignore also. And then the bean counters and PC police and..........

[bigwhiteys]

I would like to think our bioligists have it all figured out but? do they.

You'd think someone who spent 4 years in post-secondary would know everything there is know about the wild game in our province.... Right...?

Carl

[MB_Boy]

Thanks for the welcome...didnt mean to be rude at all, hope it wasnt taken that way, it was an opinionated response, but i had a hard time swallowing it about the young people...i just feel that a lot of the guys (at least back home (Nova Scotia) the older hunters arnt very encouraging to the younger generation of hunters...

anyways im really enjoying the posts, and hope they keep coming

rf....

No offense taken. Once you spend some time perusing old threads etc you will see that youth recruitment/retention into hunting is something that 99% of members on this site are supportive of (except for the bowhunters :wink::lol:) There is a LOT of encouragement given to young AND new hunters on this site. Just look through the threads where some younger hunters have had some success....the 'high fives' and comments that come from members will help you see that most/all of us in the 25+ year old category get pretty jacked up by it and can sense the excitement of the new hunter.

My only comment was directed at the confusion of "statitistics" vs. "observation". I have pics from when I was 6 years old and my Dad helped me shoot my first grouse with a 4-10 but I tell ya.......my memory of it was pretty much non-existant when I was 15....let alone now at 36. Spend some time reading and hanging out.....you'll kinda get the vibe of the site and another thing............NO question is a dumb question so ask away!

Good luck!

Sorry for the "welcome to HBC" hi-jack y'all.........back to the regularily scheduled program of poor little innocent calves getting whacked. :wink: :-P

[Krico]

Do the bios know everything about our game populations? No. Are our hunting seasons managed perfectly? No. Are there politics involved? You bet. And I never stated anything to the contrary.
To recommend changes to the regulations based on one hunter's personal observations is a rather silly idea though, regardless of what season/species being discussed.

[MB_Boy]

Do the bios know everything about our game populations? No. Are our hunting seasons managed perfectly? No. Are there politics involved? You bet. And I never stated anything to the contrary.
To recommend changes to the regulations based on one hunter's personal observations is a rather silly idea though, regardless of what season/species being discussed.

Krico, Horshur, BCRams or anyone....question for you as you obviously live MUCH closer to the area in question. What are the politics involved? Just trying to understand if there is more than meets the eye for someone geogrphically "removed" from the situation. :wink:

I understand that managing populations and catering to every group that has a vested interest in said population is not easy........nor will it ever be perfect as there are SO many factors that come into play. I spent years listening to it at the family dinner table from regional/provincial biologist.:shock:

[Browningmirage]

You sure don't. Those are the personal observations of one hunter, not the slightest bit scientific.

And to suggest the biologists do not care about animal numbers is ridiculous. Do you think those guys went to university for 4 years to get a biology degree so they could increase government revenue through moose tags?

Biologists concern themselves with animals. Bean counters concern themselves with money.

All indications are that the moose population around here is stable, which to me indicates that the current management strategy is working.

Do any hunters here want to venture a bit further.

How many people here took the time, worked hard at school, graduated, attended post secondary, got their degree, and are now Wildlife biologists. The money is not that great, people b!tch at you all day, and you work for the government (which is frustrating in itself).

How many people took the time to take a degree in fisheries or wildlife biology, paid out the good sum, and are now working for the ministry. You want to speak about the almighty dollar and how the biologists are only worried about money, think again. If you cared so much for the wildlife, how come certain individuals never came forward to pay out the cash for schooling, how come you are not in charge of game management. I know there are lots of hunters out there that take part in habitat enhancement and all that, but really, to dedicate your life to it just seems to show that you live for wildlife or fish.

Im not saying that you dont have a say, just dont B!tch because you arent liking the way things are managed. bring forward concerns, dont just sit there and get all pissy on the internet.

On top of that, one persons observations are hardly scientific. I have noticed things for the beginning of the season, then in one day, everything i noticed was void. Maybe if an individual worked as a biologist, and had some scientific methods in your belt, maybe then i would be able to listen to them.


Ever heard of a dry year? Every hunter has had them, just cuz someone isnt seeing animals, doesnt mean that they dont exist, or are endangered.

[Browningmirage]

With a healthy population there may be some justification for a cow/calf season, but I've hunted hard in 7-11 and the last two years have been really poor. this year I talked to hunters in 4 camps who had hunted at total of 168 mandays (late Sept. mid Oct.) and they had seen a total of 7 moose, (4 large bulls, 1 spike fork, 2 cows, and no calfs). There are wolf tracks everywhere. Somebody in Environment better wake up before the moose goes the way of the cod and salmon or a repeat of the catastrophre in Region 5 or the loss of elk in the Kootenays. How many remember the LEH regs. a few short years ago that had thousands of cow/calf elk in the Kootenays and now ???


Ahhahahaha im in on this one...Man days are great...say youve got 10 people in one area on the same day, in the same group...that is 10 man days...Dads in a camp right now, there are ten of them, they have been in the bush for 14 days, my god thats 140 man days...insane

[MB_Boy]

Ahhahahaha im in on this one...Man days are great...say youve got 10 people in one area on the same day, in the same group...that is 10 man days...Dads in a camp right now, there are ten of them, they have been in the bush for 14 days, my god thats 140 man days...insane

It can be pretty skewed that's for sure. :wink:

We had 3 groups of 3 guys.....working 3 different cut blocks today. 3 spots......9 guys.......9 man days in 3 blocks??

"We left the lower mainland and drove to "our" area....we were camped for 10 days and there were 5 of us".......50 "man days"?? A man day could be 4 guys driving around in a crew cab truck....."4 man days TODAY in the old Ford and we were all on the road covering LOTS of ground". :biggrin::wink::roll:

[Mulie_Hunter]

Think this debate has been beaten to death over the years. No I don't like it. If its anything like past debates it will end with BCrams telling someone that they don't know anything, and that killing moose calves is only natural, or something along those lines.:biggrin:

[Marc]

Well it comes down to this. It's an open season and it's legal. If you don't like it then don't participate, if you do like it then have fun. If there was an issue with taking calves I'm sure they would have shut the season down.

Marc.

[BCrams]

Think this debate has been beaten to death over the years. No I don't like it. If its anything like past debates it will end with BCrams telling someone that they don't know anything, and that killing moose calves is only natural, or something along those lines.:biggrin:


The moose population in 7a has always been healthy and having the calf season / spike fork bulls does not hurt the population. Including large mature breeding bulls, which never get shot during the LEH seasons.

Aerial surveys each winter show that us hunters don't even put a dent in the calf moose or the spike / fork bulls out there.

This calf season / spike - fork season has been on for so many years now that if having these seasons had any detrimental impact on the moose population in 7a, then we probably wouldn't have the season to begin with today.

What it boils down to is 'personal choice' as to whether you wish to use the calf season as an opportunity to fill your freezer if you do not get a LEH permit. In many cases, people who have a LEH permit but friends who don't, will team up on a week long hunt where everyone can participate.

[horshur]

The moose population in 7a has always been healthy and having the calf season / spike fork bulls does not hurt the population. Including large mature breeding bulls, which never get shot during the LEH seasons.
.

So if it has always been healthy---why the LEH seasons???

[Gus]

[quote=BCrams;196368] Including large mature breeding bulls, which never get shot during the LEH seasons.
quote]

What do you mean by this exactly?

[GoatGuy]

So if it has always been healthy---why the LEH seasons???

Check out the last 4 pages. :roll:

We're our own worst enemies. Arbitrary random numbers, personal observations based on a couple days in the bush.

Apparently the elk are down in the EK this year too and a guy today was telling me the deer are way down in region 8 - he's only since 3 deer since Sunday!!!!!!!!!!! :idea:


As Willy says LEH Province Wide!!!:redface:

[GoatGuy]

Here's the rundown of my Region 7A Moose hunt and my anecdotal evidence that the moose population is strong.

First night called nothing, second morning called nothing, second night called, bull moose, bang flop, into the truck. Sleep that night, head home the next day.

End of story. I've been in on nine or ten moose kills in that MU and the sign was par for any other year.

My arbitrary analysis lots of moose in 7A. :-P


I'm glad that isn't how decisions are made when it comes to regulations. :shock:

[Bullmoose]

Tunnel vision and petty sniping aside all you have to do is look at the past 20 or so years and it is pretty clear that we (collectively) have been doing a pretty lousy job of managing our wildlife resources. I've got Regs. and/or LEH Regs going back over 20 years and the numbers and type of animals available and the length of the seasons tell the story, we've been on a downhill slide for a long time

[25tikka]

I was born and raised in region 7 and can always remember a strong moose population.I shot a calf on the 3rd day of season this year and seen 6 others with cows and one 40"+ bull all in a 5 day hunt in 7-2 and 7-4. The calf season has been there for a long time and the moose just keep coming....seems to be working just fine. I also noted that in 16km of muddy road there were 7 atvs and 11 trucks which seemed a bit insane but all I talked to were chasing the calf!

[horshur]

Could it be possible that the reason we have LEH seasons is because so many guys are just crappy hunters.????

[Orangethunder]

Could it be possible that the reason we have LEH seasons is because so many guys are just crappy hunters.????

No, we all rock!!!:roll: