China promotes bear bile as a treatment

[Steeleco]

So with the near 400% increase in bear tag sales this spring could this be the reason?

https://canoe.com/news/world/covid-19-china-promotes-bear-bile-as-treatment-for-disease-traced-to-wildlife

I was able to find a link in Natgeo site but you need to be a subscriber to read all of it.

SO if there's some truth to my suspicion, we all need to keep an eye on things. I'm not speaking of Asian hunters specifically as there are poachers in ALL walks of life, but this will likely increase the incidences of bear killings for no other reason.

So get the BC conservation app, make sure your RAPP numbers are in your phones or even your local CO if your in a small town where you know that person personally.

If you see ANYTHING report it, the bears need our protection and the CO's need our help.

[HarryToolips]

China gives us nothing but probrems.....

[KodiakHntr]

Do bears need protection though? Would a province wide reduction in bears be a bad thing?

[The Donald]

Do bears need protection though? Would a province wide reduction in bears be a bad thing?

^^^^^^ this, more people need to hunt bears and do their part, good pepperoni and hams :)

[adriaticum]

Chinese voodoo medicine has been a plague on earth for millennia

[Mosin]

Do bears need protection though? Would a province wide reduction in bears be a bad thing?
Depends where their meat is going dude!! If a BC resident hints bear and eats the meat blah blah blah that is fine by me. But if some jerk offs want to kill it for the bile because someone will buy it off of them for a profit I have a problem with that, lol you ask if bears need protection? From them they do, those people are known to decimate anything. Heck, they'll make black bears an endangered species in a few seasons if they were given the green light to hunt bears for bile...look at what they have done to the local lakes and fish...do they need protection he asks...lol

[ryanb]

I haven't bought a black bear tag in years, but I likely will this year...food security and the world falling apart and all that...

[KodiakHntr]

Depends where their meat is going dude!! If a BC resident hints bear and eats the meat blah blah blah that is fine by me. But if some jerk offs want to kill it for the bile because someone will buy it off of them for a profit I have a problem with that, lol you ask if bears need protection? From them they do, those people are known to decimate anything. Heck, they'll make black bears an endangered species in a few seasons if they were given the green light to hunt bears for bile...look at what they have done to the local lakes and fish...do they need protection he asks...lol

I can remember when bears were shot for galls. Back during the glory days of ungulate hunting. Back when all you had to do was peel the hide off and lots of people hunted bears.

My only comment is that knocking the bear population back by 60 or 70% might have unintended positive consequences.

[jac]

I 100% say yes bears do need protection from people that will kill them for the gall bladder. That’s insane do you think people that are willing to do that to bears will make sure they don’t have cubs? Also people who do that will likely not treat any other animal species or the forest around them very well!!! All animals and the lands need some form of protection or this world will be screwed

[Steeleco]

Do bears need protection though? Would a province wide reduction in bears be a bad thing?

Hunt I'm all for, shooting for parts NOT ONE BIT

[rollingrock]

First of all, you would need to be able to kill a bear. That's not easy even hunting with a rifle. Secondly the regulation says you can't keep a gallblader, but it doesn't say you can't extract the bile. So if someone manages to kill a bear, takes all the meat and the hide and decides to use a syringe to extract the bile out of the gallbladder, what's wrong with that? The only problem is someone kills a bear only for the bile and leaves the whole bear there. 400% of increase of bear tag sales doesn't mean anything. I hope this thread doesn't turn into a Chinese bashing one.

[adriaticum]

First of all, you would need to be able to kill a bear. That's not easy even hunting with a rifle. Secondly the regulation says you can't keep a gallblader, but it doesn't say you can't extract the bile. So if someone manages to kill a bear, takes all the meat and the hide and decides to use a syringe to extract the bile out of the gallbladder, what's wrong with that? The only problem is someone kills a bear only for the bile and leaves the whole bear there. 400% of increase of bear tag sales doesn't mean anything. I hope this thread doesn't turn into a Chinese bashing one.



The problem with taking the gall bladder and bile is that if allow that, than all these chinese voodoo medicine men will buy licenses and go kill bears.
These things fetch a good price in Asia and in two years you won't have any bears in BC.
If they want the bile, they should put their scientific heads together and synthesize it in the lab.

[browningboy]

Jesus, why don't the chinese start using "chinese ball sack" for fuq sakes, talk about raping your resources for mythical BS, just like tiger dik etc

[Jagermeister]

Chinese voodoo medicine has been a plague on earth for millennia
I wonder if that is why their population is so much greater than that of all others?

[Mosin]

I can remember when bears were shot for galls. Back during the glory days of ungulate hunting. Back when all you had to do was peel the hide off and lots of people hunted bears.

My only comment is that knocking the bear population back by 60 or 70% might have unintended positive consequences.

I completely agree with you...coming up with some batshyt crazy home remedy which happens to be a western resource...always wanting something and manipulating our good intention laws to rape and pillage...oil, gas,game, fish, real estate blah blah blah

[MichelD]

Jesus, why don't the chinese start using "chinese ball sack" for fuq sakes, talk about raping your resources for mythical BS, just like tiger dik etc

The pharmacologically active ingredient contained in bear bile and gallbladders is ursodeoxycholic acid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursodeoxycholic_acid) (UDCA).

It has been proven to be medically effective for treating certain liver diseases and gallstones and and has been synthesized. They don't need bears for the stuff any more.

The rest of the health claims however, are voodoo BS.

[adriaticum]

I wonder if that is why their population is so much greater than that of all others?


That's a good question.

I don't know what the scientific explanation for population density in Asia is compared to western Europe but I have my own.
The fact is that all major civilizations started in Asia and population migrations have almost always been from East to West.
This is an indications that populations in the East have reached saturation points earlier.
I think this is due to the fact that eastern civilizations have simply reached the saturation point earlier because they are older and the land was more hospitable.
I think civilizations existed in Asia already while large part of Europe was under ice.
Migrations of homo sapiens was more to the east because the land was more hospitable.
Neanderthals managed survive the cold climates but their population was relatively small compared to Asia.

My big question is how come China and India have learned nothing about population effects on the environment even though they are so much older than western European civilizations.
Hell even Buddha spoke of misery, poverty and hunger.

[Bugle M In]

That pisses me off to hear.
Killing animals for just strictly "medicinal purposes" makes me mad.
They can "synthesis" much of what they say "cures" ailments, which is also complete BS.

Note: When my buddy took his black bear last season, we found the gull bladder, nice and full!
I turned on the camera, and recorded my hunting partner jabbing his knife into it!, thus having proof that we "did not" take the gull bladder.
(Just in case the CO's came in and we crossed paths....i wanted to have "proof for them".)

[adriaticum]

That pisses me off to hear.
Killing animals for just strictly "medicinal purposes" makes me mad.
They can "synthesis" much of what they say "cures" ailments, which is also complete BS.

Note: When my buddy took his black bear last season, we found the gull bladder, nice and full!
I turned on the camera, and recorded my hunting partner jabbing his knife into it!, thus having proof that we "did not" take the gull bladder.
(Just in case the CO's came in and we crossed paths....i wanted to have "proof for them".)



your partner threw away 15 grand :p

[Steeleco]

I hope this thread doesn't turn into a Chinese bashing one.



As I said in my opening post it's not about race, it's about poaching. My son found a bear a few years back that had its feet removed, that's all. I know others that have found bears that only the internals were removed, one can only assume for the bladder.

I think the Chinese government is irresponsible in making these claims, it will drive the black market trade the world over, despite the lack of proof and the as mentioned man made alternatives!

[likemaple]

^^^^^^ this, more people need to hunt bears and do their part, good pepperoni and hams :)
exactly! If a hunter harvest a bear and take everything (bile included) I will not object to it. But if one takes a bear and take ONLY the bile, that would be 200lb of meat wasted which can feed families of many.

[325]

Chinese voodoo medicine has been a plague on earth for millennia

absolutely.

[Yuritau]

Honestly, I doubt any opinions in China had much of a noticable effect on the tag sales. More likely to be yet another version of the panic buying that everyone seems to be getting sucked into. Probably mostly accounted for by folk who don't normally buy their tags until fall buying them early and folk who don't typically bear hunt thinking that fall hunting might not happen so may as well grab a bear in the spring.

[Bugle M In]

your partner threw away 15 grand :p

Yup, don't think it doesn't cross one's mind....for sure!
Wasn't the reason the bear was taken, but once laying there, at some point someone asks, "so how much is that worth"?

Joking or not, it is sad when a creature dies, just for the sake of $$$$$'s.

Not why we hunt, and not what we want to happen either.
Every time money is involved, bad things always happen!

We need more CO's and better fines and better inspection.
And, hunting bear in the fall ant that bad, tons of them around these past few years, depending where you go.
If you cant make it in the spring, or were unsuccessful, lots of chances still to be had.

[marshman,]

The sale of bear bladders was legal in Alberta about 30 yrs ago, it was supposed to calm the black market trade, I sold a few to the taxidermist for 150bux back then when they apparently they sold for 5k on the black market, of course I had to try some, tasted like very strong licorice & did nothing for my libido

[Gateholio]

I actually think that it should be legal to sell legally harvested galls. Properly regulated it may help minimize the abuses that happen with the illegal trade and the suffering of bears in Chinese bear bile farms.

[ElectricDyck]

I actually think that it should be legal to sell legally harvested galls. Properly regulated it may help minimize the abuses that happen with the illegal trade and the suffering of bears in Chinese bear bile farms.

Same argument as with the sale of legal ivory..would slow the black market poaching...I agree

[Pauly]

As soon as you make something illegal it’s value sky rockets, and it promotes organized crime Prohibition for example or bc bud before legalizing. If I harvest two bears this year I should have the right to sell the galls... it’s not hard

[REMINGTON JIM]

Chinese voodoo medicine has been a plague on earth for millennia

YUP ! PHUCK the Chinese and there Bullshit Medicine ! jmo RJ

[MontyLake]

The sale of bear bladders was legal in Alberta about 30 yrs ago, it was supposed to calm the black market trade, I sold a few to the taxidermist for 150bux back then when they apparently they sold for 5k on the black market, of course I had to try some, tasted like very strong licorice & did nothing for my libido

For phoqu's sake.

The thing with bear bile is that is is supposed to be a liver and gall bladder/gall stone remedy, nothing to do with your limp pecker.

[bcshadow]

So with the near 400% increase in bear tag sales this spring could this be the reason?

https://canoe.com/news/world/covid-19-china-promotes-bear-bile-as-treatment-for-disease-traced-to-wildlife

I was able to find a link in Natgeo site but you need to be a subscriber to read all of it.

SO if there's some truth to my suspicion, we all need to keep an eye on things. I'm not speaking of Asian hunters specifically as there are poachers in ALL walks of life, but this will likely increase the incidences of bear killings for no other reason.

So get the BC conservation app, make sure your RAPP numbers are in your phones or even your local CO if your in a small town where you know that person personally.

If you see ANYTHING report it, the bears need our protection and the CO's need our help.

Will do, and thank you for making this top of mind.

[AK-47]

Pangolines and batmans also were used in Chinese voodoo medicine . So what next ? Some kind of bear virus flu ?

[tomcat]

A hunter or trapper who legally takes an animal under licence should be able to sell any part of that animal for which there is market for.
Artificially drying up a legal regulated supply for a product that is in demand actually creates the black market by driving up the price.
For every legally killed gall left in the gut pile, an illegal gall is taken to supply the demand. Stupid laws will not change cultures that are thousands of years old.
Having a ready supply of legally attainable parts, keeps the prices for those parts low, lessening the financial incentive to poach animals for those parts.

[MontyLake]

A hunter or trapper who legally takes an animal under licence should be able to sell any part of that animal for which there is market for.
Artificially drying up a legal regulated supply for a product that is in demand actually creates the black market by driving up the price.
For every legally killed gall left in the gut pile, an illegal gall is taken to supply the demand. Stupid laws will not change cultures that are thousands of years old.
Having a ready supply of legally attainable parts, keeps the prices for those parts low, lessening the financial incentive to poach animals for those parts.


That's your opinion and you have every right to believe what you believe.

However, there are plenty of counter arguments that I won't even go into.

it is currently illegal to possess them and that's that.

[Pauly]

The increase in bear tag sales is concerning.. how many orphaned cubs will their be this year? It’s not deer hunting and with no baiting you need plenty of time and patience to be sure of what it is your dropping the hammer on. I glass trees bushes every square inch when I spot a bear. Even then I’m always worried about making a mistake . Never have yet but I’m not arrogant enough to say it couldn’t happen to me. Open terrain and cut blocks at least offer better views

[Bugle M In]

Well, from what I have read, when you take the elephant issue.

It would make sense to sell the legal tusks, that either the government removed to protect the elephant, or from legal hunts etc,
and sell them, thus cooling the market for "illegal tusks" because it lowers the price etc.
BUT……….

They found that in China, the biggest buyer of tusk, they could not figure out which pieces of tusk were "legally obtained" and
which were "illegally/poached" obtained.

The truth is, many of the places that carve the tusks etc, would only have enough tusk for several months of work per year, yet
they have enough for all year!!????

Ying and yang in everything in life, imo.

Need you libido kicked up...take Viagra or if that isn't enough, rent a good looking hooker!!!
No need to kill an animal just to get a woody.

[Huevos]

I did some reading on this a while back. I believe that it is legal to sell gall bladders in Nova Scotia and Northwest Territories. This falls under provincial jurisdiction. There is no federal law agains sale of gall bladders. You can, or at least could sell them on the fur market. Lets throw out some theoretical numbers on bears harvested across Canada. In BC, there are aroud 200 outfitters. I think you could safely say that each outfitter would take 10 bears. Lots take more, Some might not take any. That is 2000 legal bears taken. Multiply that across Canada, you are looking at 20,000 legally harvested bears just from outfitters. Add in resident hunters and it is safe to say that there is a lot of legally harvested bears taken every year in this country. If it were legal to sell the gall bladders, the supply would definately go up, driving the demand (and price) down. If the price were to fall, theoretically, it wouldn't be worth poaching a bear for the gall bladder.
Now instead of being illegal to take a gall bladder, from a legally harvested bear, why is the government not encouraging us to utilize as much as possible?
On the other hand, what is the difference between selling a part of a bear, and selling meat from a moose?
I know in Saskatchewan, a person can keep the gall bladder for personal use, but cannot sell it.
Bottom line, Good luck bear hunting this spring. Sounds like I will be seeing a few of you out there.

[Downtown]

your partner threw away 15 grand :p

Nonsense !

Back in the day we took every Gall Bladder from the Bears our Clients Harvested. At end of Spring Season the Chinese Buyer paid $ 25 to 35 for a Black Bear Bladder large Grizzly Gall Bladders went for $ 60 tops.

A Camera attached to an Alaskan Grizzly recorded the Bear killed 43 Moose Calves in one monht alone. We have the same conditions/problems on the west-slopes of the Rocky Mountains north-east of Prince George. The average male Black Bear is just as efective a Moose Calve Killer then any Grizzly, gotten so bad that even the Wolves are starving.

Been a Guide Outfitter in the same area for over 40 years so you may assume I know what I am talking about.

Cheers