Moose age by antler size

[Bustercluck]

I stumbled across this today. I’m not sure if it’s been posted here before, but still a good discussion item.

https://www.all-about-moose.com/moose-antlers.html

This conversation has come up at moose camp a few times. The one time it actually made a difference was the one year we went up to fort Nelson looking for a ten point or better. After some discussion about counting points we kind of made a loose agreement if the bull has a full palm and some brow tines he probably has either ten points or three on the brow. Out of the bulls we’ve seen that have a full palm and brow tines they’ve all passed as a ten point or three brows. We ended up shooting a nice big bull that year and like the other bulls of that size it had 3 brow tines and ten points.

The other time it made a difference and we would’ve been wrong was this little spike fork we saw. My partner knocked it over because he had a limited entry tag for any bull and the moose was definitely 1.5 years old but 3 points on both sides. It’s pretty hard to judge from 2-300 yards out.

[Norwestalta]

Hoping not to derail your thread but how many moose are wasted because upon ground inspection they don't have the points?
I'm sure that moose get wasted here as well with the 4" antler regulation and some maybe confusing a bull with a cow and vice versa.

[HappyJack]

A lot of moose taken as 10 pointers don't meet the grade. At least I've seen quite a few dead ones with nubs on the antlers that sure look like points to the average joe, but aren't longer than they are wide at the base as per the regulations. It's far easier to determine if they have a tri palm and really what I look for.

[Walking Buffalo]

I stumbled across this today. I’m not sure if it’s been posted here before, but still a good discussion item.

https://www.all-about-moose.com/moose-antlers.html

This conversation has come up at moose camp a few times. The one time it actually made a difference was the one year we went up to fort Nelson looking for a ten point or better. After some discussion about counting points we kind of made a loose agreement if the bull has a full palm and some brow tines he probably has either ten points or three on the brow. Out of the bulls we’ve seen that have a full palm and brow tines they’ve all passed as a ten point or three brows. We ended up shooting a nice big bull that year and like the other bulls of that size it had 3 brow tines and ten points.

The other time it made a difference and we would’ve been wrong was this little spike fork we saw. My partner knocked it over because he had a limited entry tag for any bull and the moose was definitely 1.5 years old but 3 points on both sides. It’s pretty hard to judge from 2-300 yards out.


That loose agreement is completely irresponsible.




Please stumble across some research on antler phenotypes and polymorphism.
The article you linked even touches on the topic.

[KodiakHntr]

You guys got lucky with the big bull you shot, nothing more. Pretty irresponsible to shoot an animal that carries a tine requirement based on "he has big paddles".

If there is a tine requirement, you count tines. Period.

[NMO]

"It’s pretty hard to judge from 2-300 yards out." Better binos or a spotting scope will solve that. Generally at 2-300 yds the moose aren't aware of much if you did your part. Obviously bumping one changes that.

http://flash.lakeheadu.ca/~arodgers/Alces/moose_bell.pdf (http://flash.lakeheadu.ca/~arodgers/Alces/moose_bell.pdf)

Loose agreements aside, Moose Bells are a good general age indicator (if you care about harvesting the most mature bull you can) and this is a pretty in-depth illustrated description of that. Through a guides eyes, it's better to pass a 60" young bull and shoot a 50" old bull, and most clients are with that program. IMO shooting too much of the young population is what has hurt Ontario's moose in a lot of areas.

[Bustercluck]

You guys got lucky with the big bull you shot, nothing more. Pretty irresponsible to shoot an animal that carries a tine requirement based on "he has big paddles".

If there is a tine requirement, you count tines. Period.
Thats completely my decision and not yours. If I shoot something illegal I have to suffer the consequences. This thread wasn’t started to discuss ethics. I was more interested how many people have seen full palm bulls with brow tines that wouldn’t make the ten point or better requirements, or is it pretty safe to say that if you see a bull fitting this description it’s going to pass. Like I said, out of the bulls I’ve seen with a full palm and brow tines they all would’ve passed for ten point or better.

Do you have something positive to add to the conversation?

[eatram]

Have I seen bulls with full palms and brow tunes that weren’t legal? Yes Sir, I have. Enough to make you second guess any fully mature moose. I have spent 15-30 days hunting in their forests, every year for 20 something years. Two years ago, I watched a 50”er for 30 minutes. 600 yards away. I was waiting for him to come in as I knew he had the criteria for legality. Swarovskis revealed (after a head turn), that his third point on the brow was on the wrong side of the deepest bay. Not legal.....

For your sake, count the points. Not just once. Once you make that first mistake, hunting will NEVER be the same again. This response was fully intended to be heard as a respectful response, not a judgement or condemnation

[MRP]

Those antlers are from the Prince George FW office Maximums studios was in PG. Honest mistakes get made trying to count points, I've come close to pulling the trigger. At 150yds for 30min with10x binoculars, all I could see was 2x2 before finely I could see a little extra point on both sides. That was back when I had eyes of a eagle, now there not so good. I'd like all moose to be just LEH and there has to be a priority system. None of this 20 years with out a draw for some crap.

[Citori54]

I have come across a few bulls left in the bush or on the side of the road that did not meet the legal definition of tri palm or ten point. I have seen many bulls that looked mature but did not have ten points. Last year we watched a bull through a high quality spotting scope for over an hour and still could not confirm if it was legal. The loose agreement your group has Bustercluck could get you into trouble at some point. Our group is very reluctant to shoot a bull based on the ten point system, but instead rely on tri palm/no tri palm to make the decision to shoot or not. In fact, one of our group was having a BS with a CO and he advised to be extremely careful with the ten point thing because so many get it wrong for the reason mentioned earlier about length versus width of a point.

[KodiakHntr]

Thats completely my decision and not yours. If I shoot something illegal I have to suffer the consequences. This thread wasn’t started to discuss ethics. I was more interested how many people have seen full palm bulls with brow tines that wouldn’t make the ten point or better requirements, or is it pretty safe to say that if you see a bull fitting this description it’s going to pass. Like I said, out of the bulls I’ve seen with a full palm and brow tines they all would’ve passed for ten point or better.

Do you have something positive to add to the conversation?

I did have something positive to say. You got LUCKY. Don't do it again. That's as positive as it is going to get from me.

If I had to hazard a guess I would say that living in the North with the amount of bull moose I see every year I pass on 5-10 legal bulls every year. And yes, I have seen mature bulls with full paddles that do not have ten countable tines or 3 brow palm tines. I have found 2 mature bulls shot and left in the last 2 falls from guys like you who have thought that "he looked legal" when he was standing there.

You don't want to discuss ethics, then don't start a thread where you bring up your lack of ethics. Pretty simple. Every week there is a thread on here where people are talking about the lack of moose in the province and you come on and start a thread about shooting moose that may not be legal and you don't want to talk about ethics???

If there is a tine requirement to make an animal legal then you count tines. To do anything else shows a lack of ethics, and even more importantly it shows a lack of respect for the animal regardless of your intent to "the suffer consequences if you shoot something illegal". There are ALWAYS bulls out there that will not meet the full legal requirement despite looking like they are fully mature.

No different than shooting a short ram because he "looks like he was mature so he must be 8" and then finding out that he was a 7 year old. Or seeing a big framed muley to find out that he is a massive 3x3.

What makes YOU an adequate judge of what a full paddle looks like, to decide what a fully mature bull looks like? Are you a moose biologist who has studied the physical make up of bull moose antler configurations by age across their habitat? Where have your studies been published? Or are you just another asshole who is willing to let your desire to kill a moose override the requirements to ensure a bull is legal before you pull the trigger and you are looking for validation from other hunters here for your choices?

Because the way you have the original post worded, what you are looking for is for guys to say "yeah, go ahead and don't count tines before you pull the trigger if he looks big, we do it too, its ok.'

[quadrakid]

Thats completely my decision and not yours. If I shoot something illegal I have to suffer the consequences. This thread wasn’t started to discuss ethics. I was more interested how many people have seen full palm bulls with brow tines that wouldn’t make the ten point or better requirements, or is it pretty safe to say that if you see a bull fitting this description it’s going to pass. Like I said, out of the bulls I’ve seen with a full palm and brow tines they all would’ve passed for ten point or better.

Do you have something positive to add to the conversation?

With all do respect,if you are going to admit to doing something that is basically illegal,shooting a moose before counting points based on a hunch that it will be legal,you should be ready for a little flack. Interesting article.

[hawk-i]

I always believed the tine count for any species to be poor regulations....mostly supports poor genetics which is the exact opposite of the reality of what nature has supported.

But it is what it is...:(

[Citori54]

The most concerning part of your post Clusterbuck is the sentence: "we kind of made a loose agreement if the bull has a full palm and some brow tines, he probably has either ten points or three on the brow". Probably is not definitely and if you are shooting on this basis, then you are guessing, which is neither legal nor ethical. I have hunted one area in BC for the last 35 years, the last 25 on LEH any bull, and we have taken many bulls that are big mature moose with full palm but until 2018 none of the ones I had shot were tri palm and none had 10 points. So your loose agreement is a recipe for trouble.

[cameron0518]

Unbelievable. Shoot and hope it is legal. Phone the local CO officer and ask their opinion.

[IronNoggin]

I always believed the tine count for any species to be poor regulations....mostly supports poor genetics which is the exact opposite of the reality of what nature has supported.

But it is what it is...:(

Yep. Piss poor way to run the show alright.
Many (myself included) believe it is done so in a directed effort for as many to get away as possible...
Strange way to go about it IMO.

Nog

PS: Our crew have seen MANY bulls that were obviously mature, yet would not make the point count.
Our general rule is two men counting, three times.

[rageous]

Glad you got your moose Bustercluck. Unfortunately if you hunt that way long enough you will make a mistake.
Your admission of guilty intent is overwhelming. People with that are the ones who don’t take responsibility for their own actions. Hope you review your future methods of practice.

[vortex]

I pack a spotting scope when hunting moose. Better than binoculars for counting points...

[Triple P]

I don’t post on this sight very often but now I find myself not able to resist,.. this is the problem not only in the hunting world but the world in general .. only takes a few to totally screw it up for every one else : the law is the law does not matter how much a person does not like it or thinks it’s BS !! It’s the law and maybe they should think about why it’s the way it is ?.. because there are ignorant people every where making it harder on all of us including them selfs but are too ignorant to even know it !!! Welcome to the new world boys ... dam joke if you ask me ...

[walks with deer]

I stumbled across this today. I’m not sure if it’s been posted here before, but still a good discussion item.

https://www.all-about-moose.com/moose-antlers.html

This conversation has come up at moose camp a few times. The one time it actually made a difference was the one year we went up to fort Nelson looking for a ten point or better. After some discussion about counting points we kind of made a loose agreement if the bull has a full palm and some brow tines he probably has either ten points or three on the brow. Out of the bulls we’ve seen that have a full palm and brow tines they’ve all passed as a ten point or three brows. We ended up shooting a nice big bull that year and like the other bulls of that size it had 3 brow tines and ten points.

The other time it made a difference and we would’ve been wrong was this little spike fork we saw. My partner knocked it over because he had a limited entry tag for any bull and the moose was definitely 1.5 years old but 3 points on both sides. It’s pretty hard to judge from 2-300 yards out.

bring camera take photos of moose count points shoot moose.. people like you are going to cause more go's closure...do us all a favour and stay home.

[walks with deer]

i did like the article but not your theory.

[elknut]

Nog is correct in the 3pt on the brow palm was created so that lots of moose walked away unharmed...In the old days if you saw antlers the moose was shot and that was that ...I have hunted all over BC for moose ..I have seen lots of 2pt brow palm bulls with huge upper palms ..When they first brought that rule in I brought my spotter and could set it up and study the antlers ..Couldnt do it with my scope or binoculars ..Its very dangerous without a spotter because of the deepest bay rule ...It might have 3-4 points on the brow but the deepest bay can rule out 2 points making it an illegal animal..The 3pt rule came from Alaska Fish and Game Dept..They created it so that all the bulls didnt get killed..Its the same with elk and the 6pt rule ...Ive seen quite a few illegal bulls with the 6th point being too wide at the 1 inch mark ..Glad to see the forum consider this inappropriate method of judging moose legal wrong .....and calling it out ...Dennis