Grizzly backup 45/70 or 12 gauge

[snipersights]

Looking for opinions on what gun is better for defence against a grizzly. I am planning a trip to the mainland in August for a moose hunt in an area that will have a lot of grizzlies. I am wondering what gun it is better if I get charged for self-defense. What has more stopping power and which gun is more likely to do what I need to do if the opportunity presents itself. I’m well aware that mace is a good deterrent and that nothing guarantees you’re going to survive just looking for ideas from people who actually know which is a better option. If anyone has any ballistic charts or actual ft/lb comparisons from personal knowledge I’d love to hear your advice. Thanks in advance stay safe SS.

[Foxton Gundogs]

45-70 or 450 Marley, hands down. Use a well constructed bullet 400+ gr. and it will out penetrate a 12 ga. x2. If you do decide on a scattergun dont go cheap your live is worth more than the difference in price. If you do go with the 12 use good quality slugs like Breneke and IF the crap hits the fan keep shooting till the gun is empty.

[IslandWanderer]

Remember not to shoot the bear in the foot.

[browningboy]

I would only choose a grenade, rocket launcher or land mine! In all seriousness choose the most grains!

[bigredchev]

whatever you are most comfortable when it hits the fan.

[KodiakHntr]

The 45/70 is by far the better choice. A good hardcast 400+ gr will drive a nice straight line through heavy bones. You will have better sights on a 45/70 as well. And unless you can source (and practice) with brenneke slugs you will be outfitting yourself with an inferior projectile. Most shotgun slugs are relatively soft and easily deformed, with has a higher tendency to be more easily upset inside the animal. That makes it less likely to travel in a straight line. Additionally, unless you are carrying a rifled barrel slug gun the slug will have minimal rotational stability. That also contributes to your bullet going where it is supposed to once it makes contact with meat.

There is a lot more to terminal effect than simply “this one is heavier than that one so this one is more betterer”.

[BCHoyt]

I run a 45/70 with 430gr HSM bear loads as a camp/defense gun.. Cant go wrong!

[BgBlkDg]

The 45/70 is by far the better choice. A good hardcast 400+ gr will drive a nice straight line through heavy bones. You will have better sights on a 45/70 as well. And unless you can source (and practice) with brenneke slugs you will be outfitting yourself with an inferior projectile. Most shotgun slugs are relatively soft and easily deformed, with has a higher tendency to be more easily upset inside the animal. That makes it less likely to travel in a straight line. Additionally, unless you are carrying a rifled barrel slug gun the slug will have minimal rotational stability. That also contributes to your bullet going where it is supposed to once it makes contact with meat.

There is a lot more to terminal effect than simply “this one is heavier than that one so this one is more betterer”.


This says it all and this poster has the bush experience to tell it like it is. I have had a few .45-70s but am a Mauser-type old geezer, so, tend to carry a .375 HandH, .338WM, or my favourite, 9.3x62, short bbl., heavy for caliber premium bullets, usually Nosler Pts.

[bcsteve]

If you’re moose hunting you’re probably carrying a rifle more powerful than either of your proposed choices already.

[Mosin]

If you’re moose hunting you’re probably carrying a rifle more powerful than either of your proposed choices already.

That to me is honestly the best plan. What are you using for moose hunting? Do you have a 338 win or similar? It would be perfect for moose hunting and would make you feel confident should you encounter a Grizz charge. Heck, I'd use a 45-70 for moose hunting as well...not like moose are shot at long distance anyway.

[snipersights]

Remember not to shoot the bear in the foot.

Thanks Man. I fealt bad about that hunt so I spent months this year shooting target, shooting in the wind, practicing my breathing, slowing my heart rate, and making sure my rifle is spot on. I’m now sighted bang on at 200 with my 6.5 creedmor. I have also been studying wind driftage and learning about MOA etc. It’s been a good year and I have never fealt more confident going into a season.

[snipersights]

That to me is honestly the best plan. What are you using for moose hunting? Do you have a 338 win or similar? It would be perfect for moose hunting and would make you feel confident should you encounter a Grizz charge. Heck, I'd use a 45-70 for moose hunting as well...not like moose are shot at long distance anyway.

im considering a 45/70 I figure I can hit clays at 100 yards with my .22 iron sights I should be able to hit a moose at the same distance in the vital zone.

[BgBlkDg]

In some circumstances, clearcuts come to mind, Moose can be shot at extended range and are. The Flathead, is one area where I have seen this fairly often.

A good .338wm certainly does cover this and the Grizzly issue.

[snipersights]

Sooooo anybody has experience with the marlin 1895gbl? I have nothing better to do until I go back to work ( possibly next week) maybe a trip to Cabela’s is in order.

[REMINGTON JIM]

If you’re moose hunting you’re probably carrying a rifle more powerful than either of your proposed choices already.

Maybe ? BUT some people hunt moose with a 243 or 25-06 :-P RJ

[REMINGTON JIM]

My NEW carry Backup rifle is a RUGER Scout Syn rifle in 308 Win with Handloaded Hornady 220 gr RN and a 10 shot mag ! With a RED dot sight its extremely Fast to point and Shoot ! jmo RJ

[Liptugger]

Just my 2 cents, if you are going with the 45-70, make sure you spend the time and money (ammo is expensive) to be come very comfortable with it.
Lots of these guns are bought and then up for sale with "very few rounds" threw it. I hate to think of how much i have spent getting to where I am with mind.

[REMINGTON JIM]

The 45-70 and the 450 Marlin with FULL power heavy Bullet loads are NOT for the faint of heart - I've had BOTH and loaded bullets as heavy as 540 grs in both ! I called those TRAIN STOPPER's and they Will if you hit your Target !
So as Liptugger has suggested LOT's of practice is Necesscary !
I find my New ruger scout 308 Win with 220 is much easier to shoot and it s a GOOD stopper i Believe with Heavy Bullets too ! jmo RJ

[Liptugger]

The 45-70 and the 450 Marlin with FULL power heavy Bullet loads are NOT for the faint of heart - I've had BOTH and loaded bullets as heavy as 540 grs in both ! I called those TRAIN STOPPER's and they Will if you hit your Target !
So as Liptugger has suggested LOT's of practice is Necesscary !
I find my New ruger scout 308 Win with 220 is much easier to shoot and it s a GOOD stopper i Believe with Heavy Bullets too ! jmo RJ

I read somewhere that a guild stopped using the 45-70 as a camp defense gun in lou of a 308 remington semi auto, claiming much faster and easy on any shooter.

[snipersights]

The 45-70 and the 450 Marlin with FULL power heavy Bullet loads are NOT for the faint of heart - I've had BOTH and loaded bullets as heavy as 540 grs in both ! I called those TRAIN STOPPER's and they Will if you hit your Target !
So as Liptugger has suggested LOT's of practice is Necesscary !
I find my New ruger scout 308 Win with 220 is much easier to shoot and it s a GOOD stopper i Believe with Heavy Bullets too ! jmo RJ

Would you say the 45/70 has more kick then a stoger coach gun? 6.5 Lb 20” barrel 3” slug 1.25 ounce

[moosinaround]

Sooooo anybody has experience with the marlin 1895gbl? I have nothing better to do until I go back to work ( possibly next week) maybe a trip to Cabela’s is in order.
I've fooled around with the 45/70, the 450 Marlin, and the 444 marlin, and I would stand up to a grizz with any of them, close up! I do like the Big Loop lever in the 45/70, and 450 marlin when shooting defense rounds or hot handloads. The reg loop in the GG smashes my dam fingers!! I was using 350gr A frames in my 450 marlin for hunting, but really liked the 400 Barnes Busters, which I tried out. They penetrated about 6" more than the a frames in the Douglas fir block tests I tried! They did not expand at all though, and I went with the a frames! moosin

[xcaribooer]

there is no wrong answer .. but if you go 12ga I would suggest the Rem 870 police as the least prone to malfunction when things get hairy..18"-20" barrel and ghost ring sights

[REMINGTON JIM]

I read somewhere that a guild stopped using the 45-70 as a camp defense gun in lou of a 308 remington semi auto, claiming much faster and easy on any shooter.

I can get on Target Faster and Hit way more Accurately with the Ruger Scout then i could with my Marlin1895G or my BLR and i have 10 shots too NOW ! WAY less shoulder pain too ! :-) jmo RJ

[REMINGTON JIM]

Would you say the 45/70 has more kick then a stoger coach gun? 6.5 Lb 20” barrel 3” slug 1.25 ounce

Never shot one ! so can't answer BUT i certainly Don't like a 2 SHOT gun for a bear attack ! RJ

[snipersights]

Oh no that gun is strictly my camp gun for Vancouver island black bear. Sits with me in my chair whilst cooking smokies, and having beers at night. Folds up into three pieces and fits in a backpack but it’s never going to grizzly country haha. I want at least 5 shots

[allan]

I have used 450 gr “grizzly” loads and lever evolution 325gr in my 45-70. The hard cast just passes through. The 325 gr actually made it most of the way through but all the energy stayed in intended target and did much more damage.
I will bring the 325 lever evolution with me next time I go out to bear country if I’m bringing a gun.

[Arctic Lake]

I-have one but it has not been fired yet ! Got a MagPul stock for it as well .Must get to the range Must get to the range Must get to the range ............
Arctic Lake
QUOTE=xcaribooer;2159531]there is no wrong answer .. but if you go 12ga I would suggest the Rem 870 police as the least prone to malfunction when things get hairy..18"-20" barrel and ghost ring sights[/QUOTE]

[snipersights]

I have used 450 gr “grizzly” loads and lever evolution 325gr in my 45-70. The hard cast just passes through. The 325 gr actually made it most of the way through but all the energy stayed in intended target and did much more damage.
I will bring the 325 lever evolution with me next time I go out to bear country if I’m bringing a gun.

H,mmmmm so lever evolution 325 grain will break them bones eh. Interesting

[KodiakHntr]

I have used 450 gr “grizzly” loads and lever evolution 325gr in my 45-70. The hard cast just passes through. The 325 gr actually made it most of the way through but all the energy stayed in intended target and did much more damage.
I will bring the 325 lever evolution with me next time I go out to bear country if I’m bringing a gun.

I tend to look at that differently. The leverevolution stuff is designed for killing light game (deer) at extended ranges (200-ish yards). That hardcast load is for breaking bones and digging deep which is preferable in my books in a close range defensive situation. The LE stuff expands fast and dumps a lot of energy, and that would be great on a bear that is feeding and unaware of you. That energy dump will knock the wiggle out really fast. On a bear that knows you are there and you might not get the penetration required to persuade a bear that you aren’t worth messing with.


My SBL will put 3 LeverEvolutions into one big ragged hole at 100yards and smashes deer dead, but I found them to not penetrate as much as I would like. I shot a couple wild pigs with them for giggles. One hog was square facing me and took a round exactly centered in the forehead and traveled a little way down the spinal column. A 60 yard shot that had a 325gr bullet stopped 15” into a 175lb hog. I have gotten better penetration with a 62 tsx from a 223.

I want in a close up situation a bullet that will dig deep and bore straight. I don’t want something that expands fast and slows down faster. But thats just me.

[REMINGTON JIM]

H,mmmmm so lever evolution 325 grain will break them bones eh. Interesting

SHIT Bullets BUT OK for lung shots on game while hunting BUT no good as a Shoulder Buster on a Big Bear ! The BETTER bullet by FAR is the Hornady 250 gr MONO FTX bullet -it way out penetrates the 325 FTX and it expands good too ! RJ

[Gateholio]

375 Ruger......

[REMINGTON JIM]

375 H&H the Real KING of the 375's ! .....

HMMM ! Fixed it for you Silly ! RJ

[Foxton Gundogs]

great ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^post

[mpotzold]

Looking for opinions on what gun is better for defence against a grizzly. I am planning a trip to the mainland in August for a moose hunt in an area that will have a lot of grizzlies. I am wondering what gun it is better if I get charged for self-defense. What has more stopping power and which gun is more likely to do what I need to do if the opportunity presents itself. I’m well aware that mace is a good deterrent and that nothing guarantees you’re going to survive just looking for ideas from people who actually know which is a better option. If anyone has any ballistic charts or actual ft/lb comparisons from personal knowledge I’d love to hear your advice. Thanks in advance stay safe SS.

I never shot a bear but about 20 years ago switched to a 375 H&H from a 300 Win. mag when hunting in grizz country. Then about 15 years ago added a 45/70 GG & one for Eve (she used a 243 before)

Use the 45/70 when in bushy country & when field dressing/retrieving game. The 375 is used for more open country.

I use 420 gr+P & 540gr +P & Eve uses 320GR Leverevolution.
The 540 gr is used for protection. The scope is removed.

Generally all the 3 rifles needed only one shot to kill a moose or deer.

I was so concerned about grizz attacks that we went & saw Randy Garrett, the bear expert, just south of Seattle to get the grizz killer ammo.
Randy discussed at length with many examples of what it takes to stop a 1000 lbs.+ fearless predator that given a chance will attack you & slowly eat you while you're alive & screaming.

At camp I also have a Defender loaded with 3" Brenneke.
The penetration from the 45/70 is much better due to their Sectional Density(SD)

And please don't count on the bear spray stopping a determined bear-it wont!

From Randy

FIRST CHOICE for defense against heavy grizzly
Our 540-gr +P Hammerhead Ammo is the ideal choice for stopping heavy bears at close quarters or hunting them at short range. This Hammerhead bullet has a meplat (frontal flat) diameter of .360”, which is just one tenth of an inch less than bore diameter. With its tremendous weight to diameter ratio (sectional density) it provides end to end penetration on the heaviest of bears, with exit, and does tremendous damage per unit of penetration due to its extremely blunt front end. This load is carried exclusively by NOAA for protection against coastal grizzly attack. It is also carried by the National Marine Fisheries Service and the U.S. Geological Survey for protection from grizzly attack. For the specific task of stopping a grizzly charge, this ammo has no peer.

[Mosin]

This says it all and this poster has the bush experience to tell it like it is. I have had a few .45-70s but am a Mauser-type old geezer, so, tend to carry a .375 HandH, .338WM, or my favourite, 9.3x62, short bbl., heavy for caliber premium bullets, usually Nosler Pts.

I always pictured you as a funky European caliber only guy...7x64, 8x68, some flavour of Ackley Improved

[Mosin]

Never shot one ! so can't answer BUT i certainly Don't like a 2 SHOT gun for a bear attack ! RJ

In a bear attack a 2 shot gun or 10 shot mostly likely won't play a huge part, even with a double barrel you would barely have time for a 2nd shot...a bolt action? You probably wouldn't even have time to work another round in...unless you had nerves of steel. I can see my arms turning to lead after the 1st shot...we all would react different than we would like to think. This strictly my opinion and having never been charged by a bear

[KodiakHntr]

Really? I don’t know how anyone would come to that conclusion. Everyone knows that when Dewey started working with Jesus back when he was a youngster (Jesus was young I mean, not Dewey) they both carried 338wm stuffed with Nosler’s.




(Grin)

[whitlers]

In a bear attack a 2 shot gun or 10 shot mostly likely won't play a huge part, even with a double barrel you would barely have time for a 2nd shot...a bolt action? You probably wouldn't even have time to work another round in...unless you had nerves of steel. I can see my arms turning to lead after the 1st shot...we all would react different than we would like to think. This strictly my opinion and having never been charged by a bear

I would say it doesn't really matter what action as long as you are proficient with it

[snipersights]

I never shot a bear but about 20 years ago switched to a 375 H&H from a 300 Win. mag when hunting in grizz country. Then about 15 years ago added a 45/70 GG & one for Eve (she used a 243 before)

Use the 45/70 when in bushy country & when field dressing/retrieving game. The 375 is used for more open country.

I use 420 gr+P & 540gr +P & Eve uses 320GR Leverevolution.
The 540 gr is used for protection. The scope is removed.

Generally all the 3 rifles needed only one shot to kill a moose or deer.

I was so concerned about grizz attacks that we went & saw Randy Garrett, the bear expert, just south of Seattle to get the grizz killer ammo.
Randy discussed at length with many examples of what it takes to stop a 1000 lbs.+ fearless predator that given a chance will attack you & slowly eat you while you're alive & screaming.

At camp I also have a Defender loaded with 3" Brenneke.
The penetration from the 45/70 is much better due to their Sectional Density(SD)

And please don't count on the bear spray stopping a determined bear-it wont!

From Randy

FIRST CHOICE for defense against heavy grizzly
Our 540-gr +P Hammerhead Ammo is the ideal choice for stopping heavy bears at close quarters or hunting them at short range. This Hammerhead bullet has a meplat (frontal flat) diameter of .360”, which is just one tenth of an inch less than bore diameter. With its tremendous weight to diameter ratio (sectional density) it provides end to end penetration on the heaviest of bears, with exit, and does tremendous damage per unit of penetration due to its extremely blunt front end. This load is carried exclusively by NOAA for protection against coastal grizzly attack. It is also carried by the National Marine Fisheries Service and the U.S. Geological Survey for protection from grizzly attack. For the specific task of stopping a grizzly charge, this ammo has no peer.

Okay you have convinced me now to convince the wife. Thanks for the info

[blaine]

I just bring my wife, when she gets mad she can hunt bear with a stick.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Never shot one ! so can't answer BUT i certainly Don't like a 2 SHOT gun for a bear attack ! RJ

A couple of years ago I ha to crawl into a slash pile that a wounded bear crawled in, the guy who shot it "conveniently" didn't have his gun. When I got into the slash pile I cam literally face to face with Mr. Bear. I had my 325 and just soved it into his face and shot. Fortunately that was the end because if it hadn't been I never could have levered anothe round in time. I have now built a 45-70 Double Gun. I shoot 540 gr Train StoppersI think you know a little about them RJ lol. any African PHs might be on to something lol.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Jim that was no attack and a SXS in that situation was the best Maybe next to a GOOD semi auto !:mrgreen:

One thing for sure is MY 540 gr TRAIN STOPPERS will KILL ! :grin: RJ

[allan]

SHIT Bullets BUT OK for lung shots on game while hunting BUT no good as a Shoulder Buster on a Big Bear ! The BETTER bullet by FAR is the Hornady 250 gr MONO FTX bullet -it way out penetrates the 325 FTX and it expands good too ! RJ
Well that’s something I should try next then. Any real world experience example with those bullets?

[allan]

I tend to look at that differently. The leverevolution stuff is designed for killing light game (deer) at extended ranges (200-ish yards). That hardcast load is for breaking bones and digging deep which is preferable in my books in a close range defensive situation. The LE stuff expands fast and dumps a lot of energy, and that would be great on a bear that is feeding and unaware of you. That energy dump will knock the wiggle out really fast. On a bear that knows you are there and you might not get the penetration required to persuade a bear that you aren’t worth messing with.


My SBL will put 3 LeverEvolutions into one big ragged hole at 100yards and smashes deer dead, but I found them to not penetrate as much as I would like. I shot a couple wild pigs with them for giggles. One hog was square facing me and took a round exactly centered in the forehead and traveled a little way down the spinal column. A 60 yard shot that had a 325gr bullet stopped 15” into a 175lb hog. I have gotten better penetration with a 62 tsx from a 223.

I want in a close up situation a bullet that will dig deep and bore straight. I don’t want something that expands fast and slows down faster. But thats just me.

well give me your choice of bullet to try in a 45-70 for close up bear defense. I find the hard cast I’ve been using just passes through and the animal just keeps coming.

[KodiakHntr]

well give me your choice of bullet to try in a 45-70 for close up bear defense. I find the hard cast I’ve been using just passes through and the animal just keeps coming.

PM returned.

[Brew]

I just loaded up some 400gr Speer with h4198. Started at minimum load for 1650fps and I’ll go up from there. These will be launched from a marlin dark series 16”. I remember loading these up in my old GBL at 1900fps and it was a nice stout load. For defence it’s my opinion you don’t need full house loads seeing how you going to be shooting inside 15yards

[REMINGTON JIM]

Well that’s something I should try next then. Any real world experience example with those bullets?

I only shot PINE and FIR with them BUT they penetrated Well and Expanded Nicely ! 2200 FPS RJ

[303savage]

I usually just pack my 243 and hunt with a partner that I know I can out run. :-)

[GEF]

I would say it doesn't really matter what action as long as you are proficient with it
You said it .If you are a bolt gun person and your instinct is reach for the bolt ,don't switch to a leaver .How many times have you cycled your bolt in the heat of a situation and not remembered doing it ? Instinct is crucial in the heat of the moment. If you switch to a leaver practice practice practice .

[gcreek]

Shot placement is a lot more important than calibre.

Most guys would find the 45/70 does damage on both ends and that is not conducive to good shooting.

[Foxton Gundogs]

That's true but a 12 ga with good quality 3" slugs is a punisher as well, and when the crap hits the fan most people don't feel the recoil. Imho.

[gcreek]

That's true but a 12 ga with good quality 3" slugs is a punisher as well, and when the crap hits the fan most people don't feel the recoil. Imho.

Truth to that for sure.

[srupp]

Hmmm used a old rusted laminated .350 mag? Betties insistence. ..
I never us a 45/70..
But used a winchester shotgun with Brenkey, slugs...as backup for years..
Last close call was with Big bore, his brother Rob..on the south side of Kwatna bay when a HUGE mom a grizzlies and her 2 2 year old juvenile delinquents decided to charge the 3 of us...I never felt under gunned with the shotgun...
In practice I could separate a tree big round as my thigh with 2 shots...
Cheers
Srupp

[mpotzold]

More on the 45/70 GG using 540 gr. & 420 gr.
https://rugerforum.net/hunting/8263-why-i-carry-marlin-guide-gun-45-70-a.html

Marlin 45-70 using buffalo bore 405 gr. –instant death to a grizz.(posted this before)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffDngrAe1Ww

[mpotzold]

No doubt a shotgun has stopped many bears in their tracks using slugs, buckshot & even bird shot.

SD of Garrett’s 540gr is 0.368. SD of shotgun slugs is around 0.150 or worse.
Chuck Hawks recommends at least 0.300 SD for thick skinned dangerous game for maximum penetration all other factors being equal.

Shotgun vs bear
Oct. 2018-Lawrence Michalchuk in Bella Coola momentarily stopped a charging grizz with birdshot from a very close distance in his yard preventing an attack only losing his right shoe.:mrgreen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj7Z5oMWuIU

Shotgun saves the day
https://www.juneauempire.com/news/armed-11-year-old-boy-saves-fishing-party-from-charging-bear/

Brenneke fails to penetrate grizz skull!
https://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/24560-Another-12-ga-slug-vs-bear-thread
Comment #4-Is this the photo?


https://www.rd.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/US050630E-Courtesy-of-Alaska-State-Troopers.jpg

[quadrakid]

Lots of good info from guys with experience. I would think that another part of the OPs defense should be education. Surprising how many Vancouver island guys head off into grizz country without really thinking about being bear safe.

[Redthies]

Okay you have convinced me now to convince the wife. Thanks for the info

My wife always gave me shit for bringing a gun on our non-hunting trips. One really mild New Year’s Day walk along the Lilloet River up by Meagher Cr we suddenly saw some big foot prints join the trail in the snow in front of us. It was pretty dry snow, so didn’t show tracks too well, and it took me a couple of steps to realize what made them. Then we saw the giant steaming pile of crap... Now if I DON’T bring the .45-70 I get asked why not!

I have been shooting 405 grain cast lately, and find the heavier bullet weight is easier to shoot than the 325 grain LeverEvolution rounds. I’m a big fan of lever guns, and my 1895 GS with RPP peep sight is a fantastic piece of gear. A big loop would be nice though.

[mpotzold]

My wife always gave me shit for bringing a gun on our non-hunting trips. One really mild New Year’s Day walk along the Lilloet River up by Meagher Cr we suddenly saw some big foot prints join the trail in the snow in front of us. It was pretty dry snow, so didn’t show tracks too well, and it took me a couple of steps to realize what made them. Then we saw the giant steaming pile of crap... Now if I DON’T bring the .45-70 I get asked why not!

I have been shooting 405 grain cast lately, and find the heavier bullet weight is easier to shoot than the 325 grain LeverEvolution rounds. I’m a big fan of lever guns, and my 1895 GS with RPP peep sight is a fantastic piece of gear. A big loop would be nice though.

So am I.
My first rifle was the original Win. 30/30 that I bought at Foxies by Charlie Lake in 1965 when I was a teen.
My brother still has the original rifle.

I forgot to mention that shortly after I purchased the 45/70 GG I practiced with it at a gravel pit on Meadow Lake Road on the way to the GANG.
I used paper plates at say 20 or less, 30 & 40 yards shooting them as fast as possible both scoped & unscoped & had no problem hitting them. Was told to aim for the middle of a charging bear.
Back in the 60's while legal surveying in the Yukon wilderness did the same with my mag. revolver. Fortunately never had to use it.

[Gateholio]

I've killed quite a few bears with shotguns using buckshot, mostly because they were in shotgun only zones. Buckshot is great at close range, especially if you can get the head. Buckshot gets really lousy as you increase the distance. One (big) bear took multiple body shot rounds, getting knocked down then getting back up. It was only moving in close that the buckshot took it down hard. But others have died fast with a close range (like a few steps away) load to it's lungs or o, adif f course the head.

Good slugs like a BRenneke or Challenger penetrate like a mofo, and if you are going to use a shotgun for bear defense, that is what I would suggest. (standard Foster style rifled slugs work too, but are less hard) But you gotta be able to hit with them, and many shotgun sights are not great for that. So you have to practice, practice, practice. People think that buckshot will give you better "hit potential" but the range you would be shooting at a bear defensively is going to be a few paces, where the buckshot hasn't really spread out anyway.

Lots of people choose a 45/70 for bear defense, too. It's certainly not a bad choice, especially if you are using handloaded or specialty ammo (The generic 45/70 is anemic as it has to be able to be used in very old rifles too) and if you love lever actions, it's probably a good choice. But it's just a big, slow bullet. But your regular hunting rifle in 270/308 or 7RM is probably going to work just as well.

If you want real power in a compact package, look at a .375 Ruger in one of the more compact offerings. Way more power than a 45/70, not much more weight.

I live in bear country, lots of black bears and an increasing amount of grizzly bears. Most of them aren't a big deal. My "bear defense" philosophy has changed over time. I used to just think "shotgun with brenneke slugs"



Going for my daily hike with the dog and not really expecting trouble? 45 Colt Mares leg with red dot, 300gr XTP. Clip on single point sling, closest we can do to a handgun. I would just carry a 9mm Glock if allowed.
Going for a longer hike ? 45 Colt M94 16" trapper. Easy to carry, easier to shoot than Mares Leg, same load.
Going into an area that I probably will see grizzlies? No point in playing cowboy with lever guns or shotguns-375 Ruger
On a backcountry hunting trip? Mostly I use .308, 300WSM, 375 Ruger- all are more than capable of killing a grizzly bear, so no extra guns added.

[dak0ta]

Would my old Husqvarna Mauser 98 chambered in 8x57 shooting 200gr Nosler Partitions be enough for both hunting and defence against bears?

[BgBlkDg]

VERY good choice and affordable for the average person as well.......

[Mosin]

Hmmm used a old rusted laminated .350 mag? Betties insistence. ..
I never us a 45/70..
But used a winchester shotgun with Brenkey, slugs...as backup for years..
Last close call was with Big bore, his brother Rob..on the south side of Kwatna bay when a HUGE mom a grizzlies and her 2 2 year old juvenile delinquents decided to charge the 3 of us...I never felt under gunned with the shotgun...
In practice I could separate a tree big round as my thigh with 2 shots...
Cheers
Srupp

Glad you made it out, between the grizzlies and all the native troubles you have, lucky one of them didn't get you. You must be a master military tactician to make it out alive.

[Brew]

Would my old Husqvarna Mauser 98 chambered in 8x57 shooting 200gr Nosler Partitions be enough for both hunting and defence against bears?

it will hammer a bear no problem

[BgBlkDg]

Glad you made it out, between the grizzlies and all the native troubles you have, lucky one of them didn't get you. You must be a master military tactician to make it out alive.


Nah, Steven is just a serious, highly experienced bushman and you could learn a lot by reading his posts carefully.

[REMINGTON JIM]

it will hammer a bear no problem

I agree with you Brew ! RJ

[Redthies]

So am I.
My first rifle was the original Win. 30/30 that I bought at Foxies by Charlie Lake in 1965 when I was a teen.
My brother still has the original rifle.

I wasn’t alive yet in ‘65 (I’m a ‘68 model), but I bought my first gun as a teen at Harvs Outdoor in Kelowna. It was a 1911 built Winchester 1894 in .30 WCF. I still have that gun in my safe, along with 2 Henrys and 2 Marlins. I don’t shoot the old ‘94 anymore, but I’ll never sell it.

[Mosin]

Nah, Steven is just a serious, highly experienced bushman and you could learn a lot by reading his posts carefully.

Doubt it...I only learn from the likes of Dick Proenneke(spelling) and Mr Shelton but not from Rupp the pupp.

[Huntingtyler123]

Pretty ignorant mosin if serious. Could learn a lot from people if you just listen with open ears.

[Ride Red]

Doubt it...I only learn from the likes of Dick Proenneke(spelling) and Mr Shelton but not from Rupp the pupp.

Steven has forgotten more than you’ll ever learn. You really are an a””hole aren’t you.

[butcher]

Mosin, clear your inbox

[Squamch]

I'd use the action you are most comfortable with. I would need an awful lot of ammo to run a lever gun as quickly and effectively as I can a pump shotgun.

[lakelander]

My bear defense gun is a SKS with two clips loaded with FMJ and lead tip (loaded alternately). Haven't had to use it yet thankfully but I think it will do the trick.

[Mosin]

Pretty ignorant mosin if serious. Could learn a lot from people if you just listen with open ears.

Just playing around chill man. I know Rupp knows his shyt

[whitlers]

My bear defense gun is a SKS with two clips loaded with FMJ and lead tip (loaded alternately). Haven't had to use it yet thankfully but I think it will do the trick.

Except for the fact that FMJ ammo is illegal to use while hunting or trapping in BC and your SKS will probably jam like the rest haha. You need to re think your setup there..

[Huntingtyler123]

Just playing around chill man. I know Rupp knows his shyt

sorry I took it wrong, quarantine getting the best of me.. starting to get stressed out lol
my apologies

[Gateholio]

Except for the fact that FMJ ammo is illegal to use while hunting or trapping in BC and your SKS will probably jam like the rest haha. You need to re think your setup there..


I don’t see the need for FMJ ammunition either, but SKS rifles are not prone to jams. It’s more likely to jam a pump action shotgun than an SKS.

[Mosin]

I don’t see the need for FMJ ammunition either, but SKS rifles are not prone to jams. It’s more likely to jam a pump action shotgun than an SKS.

I agree, I bet the average guy would short stroke the pump

[Downtown]

If you cant cycle your Gun well in a high Stress Situation (high Stress in my mind is under 15 Feet), you probably have a Bad Day. The heavier the Bullet the better.

Been there done that.

Cheers

[lakelander]

Except for the fact that FMJ ammo is illegal to use while hunting or trapping in BC and your SKS will probably jam like the rest haha. You need to re think your setup there..

I don't hunt with FMJ. This is my defense gun - would you not shoot a charging bear without a tag to save your life? That would be "illegal" too. My SKS has never ever jammed after 1500 rounds through it haha...

[lakelander]

I don’t see the need for FMJ ammunition either, but SKS rifles are not prone to jams. It’s more likely to jam a pump action shotgun than an SKS.

FMJ would be a good bone buster to slow/stop a charge for a follow up lead tip shot

[whitlers]

I don't hunt with FMJ. This is my defense gun - would you not shoot a charging bear without a tag to save your life? That would be "illegal" too. My SKS has never ever jammed after 1500 rounds through it haha...

Fair point. I just don't see the need for the FMJ. I'm surprised you haven't had a jam in 1500 rounds though. Wouldn't be my first choice for a bear defense gun but to each their own.

[IronNoggin]

Perhaps not a pissed off Bull Elephant, but anything else and she will do...

https://i.imgur.com/uBQ68YD.jpg

Cheers,
Nog

[.330 Dakota]

A lot of focus on recoil here,,,keep in mind bears are super fast,,most likely to get one shot,,so recovering from recoil may not be as important as one might think.
I myself carry a 45/70 and thanks to Remmy Jim, I am driving a 420g hardcast at 2000fps,,,it will work

[REMINGTON JIM]

Hey Old Buddy :smile: RJ

[BigfishCanada]

I have tons of backup, but something tells me that the first defense best option is some good bear spray. Unless i have a bullet sitting in the chamber with the saftey off which i dont often do

[moosinaround]

A lot of focus on recoil here,,,keep in mind bears are super fast,,most likely to get one shot,,so recovering from recoil may not be as important as one might think.
I myself carry a 45/70 and thanks to Remmy Jim, I am driving a 420g hardcast at 2000fps,,,it will work
A 420 at 2000? I've shot a 400 barnes buster at around 1900 from a marlin guide gun, not fun!!! moosin

[REMINGTON JIM]

A 420 at 2000? I've shot a 400 barnes buster at around 1900 from a marlin guide gun, not fun!!! moosin

YUP ! BIG load of H322 behind some 420 gr Hard cast Gas checked out of my Guide Gun at 1995 fps ! :smile: RJ





Replace the stock recoil pad with a Decelerator HELPS a BIT too ! RJ

[.330 Dakota]

Hey Old Buddy :smile: RJ


Hey Pal,,,bored yet,,lol

[.330 Dakota]

A 420 at 2000? I've shot a 400 barnes buster at around 1900 from a marlin guide gun, not fun!!! moosin

Hey Moosin,,,yep,,chronied at 2000 out of a stainless guide gun...Limbsaver pad makes all the difference

[Mosin]

Hey Moosin,,,yep,,chronied at 2000 out of a stainless guide gun...Limbsaver pad makes all the difference

I use 58 grains of imr 4064 behind a 350 grain interlock, never chronied it but let me tell you..."lots of eye relief advised" lol

[Foxton Gundogs]

Hey Moosin,,,yep,,chronied at 2000 out of a stainless guide gun...Limbsaver pad makes all the difference
Yah but we all know how wonky your chrono is lmao, how you bin buddy long time no speak. 100% agree, when the excrement hits the rotating blades you dont feel recoil you just do what's needed and check the bruise latter.This know

[REMINGTON JIM]

My 540 gr Train Stopper Load is very Violent ! Both ENDS ! :smile: RJ

I NO longer have the 45-70 Gov or the 450 Marlin ! Funs over With ! :-( For NOW ! :smile: RJ

[Deer_Slayer]

Just use the gun you plan to use for moose hunting. If you're asking about a camp gun, either will do. I prefer good ole .12 gauge loaded with slugs.

[snipersights]

Well after much research and comments, pms, and suggestions/comparisons I went with a 45/70. Thank you to all who helped me with my decision. I got a marlin 1895 GS stainless steel. Will be taking it out this weekend hopefully to sight in then it’s with me 24-7. I love everything about the gun and Cabela’s has it now for only $899. Don’t go to Nanaimo I bought the last one. Once I have it sighted in and I am confident with it I will be taking it as my bear backup, and possibly christening it on a big island black bear.

[Brew]

Congrats on the new rifle. You will enjoy it for sure.
I sold my gbl some years back and just replaced it with the new 16” dark series. Such a great rifle.
I’m running the 400gr Speer at 1800 in my rifle now. It’s got some wallop.

Go get yourself a bear

[mpotzold]

Well after much research and comments, pms, and suggestions/comparisons I went with a 45/70. Thank you to all who helped me with my decision. I got a marlin 1895 GS stainless steel. Will be taking it out this weekend hopefully to sight in then it’s with me 24-7. I love everything about the gun and Cabela’s has it now for only $899. Don’t go to Nanaimo I bought the last one. Once I have it sighted in and I am confident with it I will be taking it as my bear backup, and possibly christening it on a big island black bear.

No doubt you made the right choice.;)
My 375, GG & Eve's GG -stainless steel & easily removable scope.
https://oi361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/cariboo_2008/DSCN1201-1.jpg~original

[mpotzold]

The GG cartridges


https://oi361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/cariboo_2008/DSCN1202.jpg~original

[IslandWanderer]

Well after much research and comments, pms, and suggestions/comparisons I went with a 45/70. Thank you to all who helped me with my decision. I got a marlin 1895 GS stainless steel. Will be taking it out this weekend hopefully to sight in then it’s with me 24-7. I love everything about the gun and Cabela’s has it now for only $899. Don’t go to Nanaimo I bought the last one. Once I have it sighted in and I am confident with it I will be taking it as my bear backup, and possibly christening it on a big island black bear.

Make sure you take your time and pick your shot.

[mpotzold]

Well after much research and comments, pms, and suggestions/comparisons I went with a 45/70. Thank you to all who helped me with my decision. I got a marlin 1895 GS stainless steel. Will be taking it out this weekend hopefully to sight in then it’s with me 24-7. I love everything about the gun and Cabela’s has it now for only $899. Don’t go to Nanaimo I bought the last one. Once I have it sighted in and I am confident with it I will be taking it as my bear backup, and possibly christening it on a big island black bear.

If you're sensitive to recoil look into a rifle or a shoulder pad.
Personally I have no problem with any of my rifles re: recoil.
When shooting the 540gr I hold the rifle considerably tighter against the shoulder.

Remember taking the Defender to the range firing my 1st 3" Brenneke. Didn't hold the shotgun tight & got a bleeding cut on my forehead.

[snipersights]

Make sure you take your time and pick your shot. Last season made me realize that I need to spend a bit more time and be a bit more careful selecting rifles scopes and learning about accuracy. I’ve also spent a great deal of time this off-season practising my breathing and trying to learn how to slow my heart rate etc. while shooting. I am shooting sub MOMA at 200 yards and just a little outside of it at 300 with the 6.5 Creedmoor. I am definitely more confident than I was last season in my rifle. Turns out the rifle I had had quite a few issues that I wasn’t aware of. All in all it’s been a good off-season I’ve put a ton of practice time in and rounds in and I feel like it has made a huge difference I am very confident now and ready for the new season. With the new 4570 I’ve got it sighted in well at 100 yards and surprisingly I didn’t find the recoil that bad with the Hornady 325 grain bullets. I find it quite easy to shoot cycle and load it is very quick to aim and very accurate.

[IslandWanderer]

Last season made me realize that I need to spend a bit more time and be a bit more careful selecting rifles scopes and learning about accuracy. I’ve also spent a great deal of time this off-season practising my breathing and trying to learn how to slow my heart rate etc. while shooting. I am shooting sub MOMA at 200 yards and just a little outside of it at 300 with the 6.5 Creedmoor. I am definitely more confident than I was last season in my rifle. Turns out the rifle I had had quite a few issues that I wasn’t aware of. All in all it’s been a good off-season I’ve put a ton of practice time in and rounds in and I feel like it has made a huge difference I am very confident now and ready for the new season. With the new 4570 I’ve got it sighted in well at 100 yards and surprisingly I didn’t find the recoil that bad with the Hornady 325 grain bullets. I find it quite easy to shoot cycle and load it is very quick to aim and very accurate.

That sounds awesome. I should spend more time in the off season practicing. 45-70 was an excellent choice in my opinion. It'll work great for island bear.

[.330 Dakota]

I whacked a big timber wolf on the run at about 80 yards a couple of years ago with the 45/70,,,bang, lights out,,through both shoulders and broke the spine,,,,one tail flip,,I use that thing on everything

[.330 Dakota]

Yah but we all know how wonky your chrono is lmao, how you bin buddy long time no speak. 100% agree, when the excrement hits the rotating blades you dont feel recoil you just do what's needed and check the bruise latter.This know

LOL,,my chrony reads the same as Rem Jims,,,how are ya Buddy,,,

[likemaple]

I'm unsure if the OP is asking if he/she can bring ONE gun that can fill the freezer AND defense against a bear. If that is the case, go with the 45-70, a Hornady FTX or similar fired in a modern 45-70 will definitely drop the bear on the spot if you do your part right.