Relying on a GPS?

[highcountry88]

I was hunting this weekend and was using the same GPS I have had for several years. I left the truck and marked the truck as a way point and started hiking in a relatively straight line away from my truck.

About a kilometer into the hunt and I checked my GPS (base model GARMIN e-trex) only to find that it showed the truck waypoint was ahead of me and I could almost see my truck behind me. I set some new way points and again it showed a way point in a place that I have never traveled...

I typically rely on my GPS for getting me out of the bush, especially when I am trying to find downed game after last light, counting on my GPS to get me back to my truck.

I am going to get a new GPS if this one is no good, but I think I am going to pay some more attention to my compass and landmarks than I used to. For those of you that use GPS, what do you do as a back up in case of GPS failure?

I don't think the GPS error was me because I have had a lot of experience with it...but you never know.

Has anybody had a similar problem with their GPS screwing up?
I would like to find out if some GPS units are better than others (not just a Ford/Chevy preference)....? Tell me what ya think.

[Untouchable]

Weird, that very same thing happened to me this weeked. Got outta the truck, marked it as a waypoint, then when it came time to return to the truck, the waypoint was no where near where it should have been. Ended up being lost for over an hour anyways long and short I ended up walking a circle around where the truck should have been. Eventually I found a game trail that I recognized, and was able to navigate back to the truck. According to the gps I was still .21 miles from the truck. For the record it's a magellen base model unit and Ive never had a problem with it before. :(

[Poguebilt]

I think its time to step up to a higher model guys... the the ones have a much better reciever. I have used my gpsmap 60cx for a while now and enjoying it quite a bit! my old etrex is parked on my closet now! fwiw I paid $399 for mine and got topo canada and garmin metroguide cheep on the internet ;)

do a little research and i'm sure you'll find what suits your needs.

[kako99]

I always tag my way off with marking tape and then follow my gps it's so easy to get lost in the bush

[moosinaround]

take a compass shot from your truck, and hang a few ribbons. It will never let you down, and the batteries never die. Moosin

[RMG]

Well I have a Garmin gpsmap 60csx model. This past week end it too showed some way points way off, like not just a few hundred meters, actually put them in a different valley km away, portions of my routes were also way out, but only by a few 100 meters. I always check to make sure the waypoints look right, like the road end, bridge etc. I know it wasnt me, and the unit has worked flawlessly before and since. I though it may have been a faulty sat signal, or the US govt pissing around with the signals, like they used to do.

[Steeleco]

I wonder if the issue wasn't in the hand held units, but the system itself??

[Ubertuber]

A guy at work complained about the exact same thing today.

[pikey]

That's disconcerting, I carry a compass as well as the gps, got a little lazy and just used the gps lately, must be the system.

[Untouchable]

Im wondering if had to do with increased use this weekend, maybe the high volume from all the hunters caused some sh!t with their system? Or maybe the sattelites were getting worked on. I dunno, but it sure worried the two guys I was with. I had my gun and ive spent the night in the woods before, but these guys were worried! haha rookies!

[dunbartr]

I have used many Garmin products for several years of forestry work and rarely had any problems. I prefer any of the GPS map series units over the eTrex units as they have better satelitte reception capability. I am sure you are familiar with your unit, but it is important to that you have "3D accuracy of =/- 10m before you mark your waypoint, which sometimes takes several minutes (or longer) to aquire after you turn them on. I have also had waypoints "move" on me sometimes, as buttons get pushed if it is in a pocket or something...

[JAFA]

take a compass shot from your truck, and hang a few ribbons. It will never let you down, and the batteries never die. Moosin
Can you be more detailed and specific. If this is a system you use explain it , please.

Are you saying that you use both tape and the compass? Just reverse back to the truck?

Thanks
J.

[Gateholio]

Man, my compass skills are so rusty after using a GPS for so long. I still carry my old compass in my pack, rarely use it.:eek:

I shoudl probably take an orientation refresher....Used to be able to use one quite well, but it's one of those things that you stop using and you get rusty.:eek:

[pupper]

Ill tell you what, dont rely on the forest service roads on the topo map gps.

in short, a night was spent in a creek 300km down a road that "shouldve" connected to where we camped. we were only 30km as the crow flies from camp when the "bridge" was not there and the road dead ended. I learnt that I relied on the GPS instead of common sense that night :(

[Jagermeister]

.................I prefer any of the GPS map series units over the eTrex units as they have better satelitte reception capability. I am sure you are familiar with your unit, but it is important to that you have "3D accuracy of =/- 10m before you mark your waypoint, which sometimes takes several minutes (or longer) to aquire after you turn them on. I have also had waypoints "move" on me sometimes, as buttons get pushed if it is in a pocket or something...Have you initialize your unit? dunbartr refers to making sure "that you have "3D accuracy of =/- 10m before you mark your waypoint". That means that you have to have reception of 3 or more satelites. The more satelites the better, like in the Cariboo where you can get a consistant location down to 2 meters, that's 6 ft., the height of your hunting buddy. Perhaps you have left home and travelled a couple hundred clicks or so and then turned your unit on, it will take a while for your unit to "catch up" to it's current location, and if you are in a mountainous area, still longer and you may never get pinpoint accuracy. A forest of very large trees will affect it also. And make sure that the time is correct on your unit, this can alter the location also. And of course, sometimes the US military will dink with them also, like when the Israelies are going to smoke the Hezzbulah or something along that line, but this is usually indicated by a loss of satelite reception. Have you set the map datum to NAD27 Canada or WGS 84 and what about position format? Are you using a proper one? I use UTM coordinates because they are more accurrate when referenced to a topo map. Some use the Loran TD format, but this gives position in long/lat and I find this hard to determine on a topo map.

[Jagermeister]

Ill tell you what, dont rely on the forest service roads on the topo map gps.

in short, a night was spent in a creek 300km down a road that "shouldve" connected to where we camped. we were only 30km as the crow flies from camp when the "bridge" was not there and the road dead ended. I learnt that I relied on the GPS instead of common sense that night :(
You must'ave missed the sign that told you about the road de-activation.:lol:

[RMG]

Apparently, there has been some satalite maintainance happening, and will continue until the 12 or 14th of Oct. then all will be back to normal.

[highcountry88]

Thanks for the great feed back on my post on the GPS malfunction....I will save up some $ to upgrade my GPS maybe next season, but I am going to start using my compass (which I rarely use because the GPS is so handy) and my roll of marking tape.

[4blade]

you probably already know this but alot of the gps need you to be moving .i,ll take a reading then head off but when i want to head back to waypoint i,ll get a false direction until i start walking a little ways and the arrow swings the right way.

[tuchodi]

As RMG said it wasn't your GPS but the Sat's were being worked on. So don't worry about your old E-Trax as they will work just fine again but it is always good to get "NEW TOYS"

[pupper]

You must'ave missed the sign that told you about the road de-activation.:lol:

there were no signs you speak of:lol:

[7mmWSM]

GPS units are never an excuse for not having a compass and a topo map when out in the bush, especially areas like the interior where the lack of significant land features and dense pine cover can make it very difficult to orient yourself. I had to learn this the really hard way a couple of years ago. the biggest problem with GPS units, aside from some abnormal malfunctions, which seems to be what is happening to your unit, is inability to get clear satellite reception, especially in storms etc.

[highcountry88]

The part about this GPS system malfunction that is a little freaky is that I am a little "directionally challenged" and I really have to work at watching my landmarks and keep heading the right way. I don't know if any of you have the same problem? I know lots of my buddies almost have a built in compass and they always seem to know the right way home.

A few years ago...I was travelling in the States a few years ago and I swore that the sun rose in the West for a whole week....bizarre eh?...ha...ha..

When we place so much reliance on a little handheld battery powered device, it is sorta scary, huh?

[308BAR]

I would recalibrate the unit, I had a similar thing happen with my 60CSX but I recalibrated the compass and the altimeter and it works just fine. If you put in fresh batteries as well you should recalibrate the GPS.

[dawn2dusk]

I have used etrex models for last 10 yrs, and I have never had any problems with either of the two units I own.
Most likely a satellite problem, like previous poster said may have only had a few satelittes with poor signal. You have to check the satellite # and strength before you log waypoints. At certain times of day and month, signals strength and # of satellites will vary. You can actually download free software to check best times at

http://www.trimble.com/planningsoftware_ts.asp (http://www.trimble.com/planningsoftware_ts.asp)

Almanac File - click on GPS almanac in SSF file format (ftp://ftp.trimble.com/pub/eph/current.ssf)http://www.trimble.com/gpsdataresources.shtml (http://www.trimble.com/gpsdataresources.shtml)


The other thing is that dawn is the worst time to log points due to atmospheric conditions. So best accuracy is to save points in afternoon.

[brotherjack]

My GPS (Garmin Rino) is good enough for some rough navigation (ie: is the truck in this valley, or the next valley over), and to figure out which way The Wife went by polling her unit (she has one of the same GPS), but that's really about it. I have found with these units, that GPS reception in steep mountains (ie: most of the Kootenays) is so poor, that I basically have to get an external antenna and/oor hike up on to a high point to get any kind of accurate reading. If I'm down on a valley floor (or even just part way down if the valley is steep and tight), it looses reception entirely. It's bad enough, that I've taken to just using my brains and the mountain peaks for navigation 99% of the time.

Don't get me wrong - having a GPS beats the heck out of not having a GPS by a mile! It has even saved me a whole lot of walking on at least 2 occasions. But using the GPS for precision navigation is not a happening thing, IMHO.

[J_T]

If your GPS unit has normally functioned well for you, then initialling the unt or changing your projection or units is not the problem.

When you encounter a brief (one day) period were it is not responding as you expect, you should turn on the news (CNN) and find out what is going on in the world. If there is something going on that might have an impact on the Americans, they simply pull the satellites out of their orbit and position them in another place to monitor the situation.

If it happened to many of you, then I suspect that was the case.

[Radar]

When you encounter a brief (one day) period were it is not responding as you expect, you should turn on the news (CNN) and find out what is going on in the world. If there is something going on that might have an impact on the Americans, they simply pull the satellites out of their orbit and position them in another place to monitor the situation.Sorry to disappoint you J_T but that is not the case, the satellites used for navigation and those used for observation are in almost all cases different. Yes certain satellites will be re-deployed to look at different areas, but it doesn't normally involve changing their orbit.

[highcountry88]

Dawn2dusk has some good info here....I typically have not paid that much attention to the number of satellites my unit is hooking up to....I had no idea that time of day or month would make any difference in the accuracy of marking a waypoint.

Lots of times I am in steep country like BrotherJack is talking about and my GPS is not grabbing ahold of the signals of more than a couple of satellites....the good part is that there are visual landmarks to help guide you.

My son is a Yukon sheep guide and he told me that he pays most attention to marking waypoints and uses this to get him home and pays little attention to the track or "breadcrumb trail" as reliable reference.

[J_T]

Radar, I would generally agree with your statement and I guess I should have been a bit more clear. If the Americans require satellites for their military navigation they'll take them and move them.

[308Lover]

Go with Moosin's advice. ALWAYS back up your hike with a compass check. The northern rangers had an exercise in the Arctic with local Innuit. Not much for landmarks in winter. Innuit got lost because GPS "didn't work" or had bad batteries etc. Imagine their rescue! I sometimes flag a bad track and pick up ribbons on way back. Have fun with Charmin' Garmin you guys. lol