Better hide your AR 15

[Pauly]

Better hide your Ars looking like a ban coming at some point . The government won’t be buying mine back . Guess I’ll have to bury it with a few thousand rounds for when the shit hits the fan. Manufacturers are still producing new models and sales are up. I’m wondering what the new restrictions will be? Every ones guessing at this point.

[Bugle M In]

Know of a couple of folks who have "sold theirs" due to the ban coming (they think it is inevitable).
Since they don't want to hide them, they want to get the cash to buy something else that will be legal (for now).

But then again, many plan to hide them I suspect.
(not much fun to have the toys and not use however)

[wrenchhead]

Maybe turdo forgot about the ban....too many other things to f up first.

[Pauly]

Know of a couple of folks who have "sold theirs" due to the ban coming (they think it is inevitable).
Since they don't want to hide them, they want to get the cash to buy something else that will be legal (for now).

But then again, many plan to hide them I suspect.
(not much fun to have the toys and not use however)
Mine was inherited I never use it at all but it’s a cool riffle .. good survival gun to keep handy. I’m not sure where I sit on banning them, don’t want to end up like the states that’s for sure. I’ll wait and see what changes to the laws are made and go from there.

[Weatherby Fan]

That was my next question is how do they know if you have one unless they still have records from the previous gun registry ?

[Bustercluck]

Is there a new article or info out there that I missed? I've been keeping tabs on that, but haven't noticed any new developments. I thought the liberals were going to quietly abandon that after the results of the poll came out.

[bcsteve]

That was my next question is how do they know if you have one unless they still have records from the previous gun registry ?
AR15’s are restricted so they are still currently registered.

[Retiredguy]

Yes the AR15's are suppose to be registered as they are "restricted" and have been for some time. So not sure how you are going to "hide" them, unless of course you have one and it is not registered, and it would be such a good idea to admit to that on an open forum.....

Still never fails to amaze me at how ill informed so many hunters and shooters are.

[338win mag]

My friend had one, lost it crossing a lake when the Canoe flipped over, .......real sad. Guess he don't got one.

[Bustercluck]

Yes the AR15's are suppose to be registered as they are "restricted" and have been for some time. So not sure how you are going to "hide" them, unless of course you have one and it is not registered, and it would be such a good idea to admit to that on an open forum.....

Still never fails to amaze me at how ill informed so many hunters and shooters are.
This conversation has come up many times recently. I don't know from first hand experience, but it's not a big deal if you "lose" your restricted firearm. Apparently you just have to fill out a declaration with the rcmp.

Then the next question arises. What happens if there's a gun ban and I decide I'm not going to turn in my registered firearms? Will a swat team kick down my door and search for it? Will the rcmp not offer me a renewal on my pal? Will the rcmp press some kind of charges against me and throw me in jail? None of these options sound like it's going to be perceived well by the rest of the population.

We'll see how far comrade Trudeau wants to go with this...

[Pauly]

This conversation has come up many times recently. I don't know from first hand experience, but it's not a big deal if you "lose" your restricted firearm. Apparently you just have to fill out a declaration with the rcmp.

Then the next question arises. What happens if there's a gun ban and I decide I'm not going to turn in my registered firearms? Will a swat team kick down my door and search for it? Will the rcmp not offer me a renewal on my pal? Will the rcmp press some kind of charges against me and throw me in jail? None of these options sound like it's going to be perceived well by the rest of the population.

We'll see how far comrade Trudeau wants to go with this...
My point is we’ve been down this road before with the Ill fated long gun registry and all the invasive questions involved in that process! Now it’s no longer. Weed has been illegal forever and how many got thrown in the tank for simple possession and now it’s legal... get my point! It’s one government agenda vs another . Most people are decent enough but because some nut case may go ballistic we’re all going to pay the price. Bad politics

[Yuritau]

This conversation has come up many times recently. I don't know from first hand experience, but it's not a big deal if you "lose" your restricted firearm. Apparently you just have to fill out a declaration with the rcmp.

Then the next question arises. What happens if there's a gun ban and I decide I'm not going to turn in my registered firearms? Will a swat team kick down my door and search for it? Will the rcmp not offer me a renewal on my pal? Will the rcmp press some kind of charges against me and throw me in jail? None of these options sound like it's going to be perceived well by the rest of the population.

We'll see how far comrade Trudeau wants to go with this...

If they are fully banned (made illegal to possess), rather than being upgraded to prohibited or grandfathered somehow, then possessing one beyond whatever window of time they give for turning them in or selling them to the gov will be an offence. Just like owning a prohibited firearm without an appropriate license. It seems quite likely that such an offence would have a negative impact on your ability to renew your firearms license.

[Bustercluck]

Personally, I think this policy is going to fade away and be forgotten until 12 years from now when the liberals get elected agin.

[Bustercluck]

I did notice your post said ars. So that does include not restricted ar-15 style guns and non-restricted ar-10s. I would hope that anyone who owns one of these would sell it or give it away before they turn them in to the govt.

[ryanb]

The liberal government had indicated they intend to pursue all semi automatic firearms, including non restricted variants such as sks's, ar-10s, mini 14s etc. I do believe recent domestic and international events are going to firmly push these initiatives to the back burner where they will hopefully remain until our illustrious idiot Prime Minister and his entourage of sychophant morons get voted out of office.

[Ron.C]

The liberal government had indicated they intend to pursue all semi automatic firearms, including non restricted variants such as sks's, ar-10s, mini 14s etc. I do believe recent domestic and international events are going to firmly push these initiatives to the back burner where they will hopefully remain until our illustrious idiot Prime Minister and his entourage of sychophant morons get voted out of office.

Lets hope that's the case. The sooner the Conservatives can initiate a non-confidence vote, the better

[weatherby_man]

Then the next question arises. What happens if there's a gun ban and I decide I'm not going to turn in my registered firearms? Will a swat team kick down my door and search for it? Will the rcmp not offer me a renewal on my pal? Will the rcmp press some kind of charges against me and throw me in jail? None of these options sound like it's going to be perceived well by the rest of the population.

In todays Canada I think that will ultimately depend on the colour of your skin..... I cant see the govt doing anything to certain user groups in this regard.

[silveragent]

There is no such thing as a non-restricted AR.

AR-15s are restricted by name so they are registered so anyone 'hiding them' is breaking the law. If this goes through and you want to be difficult about it the most I would do is strip the receiver of everything and keep it separate and do nothing and let the government expend its efforts to come get it. It could take them months or years (meanwhile wasting our tax money doing so). Unfortunately, in either case, none of you will be getting any pleasure from using it since of course you can only shoot them at a range.

There are plenty of non-restricted rifles that can take the STANAG type magazine in .556/.223 or whatever other calibre of AR you have and receivers that you can take all the stuff you had for your AR and put into a new receiver. There are more of these coming out every year. Don't make the mistake of calling these "non-restricted ARs" as you are just playing into the hands of the gun control activists. Same thing with the AR-10 / AR-180s or other rifles that were made at the same time but do not share lineage with the AR-15.

Of course the gun controllers want to call all of these "ARs" or "assault rifles" or "assault weapons" so that they can sweep them ALL up. Notice Bill Blair when he talks names the AR-15 but also talks in broad strokes. This is so that he leaves it open to getting every gun that resembles ARs in the ban. And if he can't get these in the initial ban he will try to redefine many models into the restricted category so he can better track them for later.

Talking about hiding them is dumb when you can make a difference now politically. Trudeau and his government are reeling because of their inability to deal with crises: the blockades, coronavirus, China, the future of our economy. He MAY use guns as another way of distracting the nation from his weakness. The worst thing that could happen is a gun owner breaking the law or causing some outrage that he can point to as an excuse to enact his bans.

[silveragent]

Lets hope that's the case. The sooner the Conservatives can initiate a non-confidence vote, the better

Here's hoping they pick a solid leader who is a good alternative to Trudeau. Having a non-confidence vote without a leader is a non-starter.

Despite how weak Trudeau is, we need those in the middle to turn away from him to have a hope.

And don't forget we need the NDP to smell blood before they will support a non-confidence vote.

[Bugle M In]

My take on the Libs "going thru with the ban", is, that after the last election, they have every intent on bringing in "a" ban.
How "watered down" it gets....who knows, but I know it is something they have every intent on implementing.
(Maybe leading up to the next election?)

But, I wonder if they are going to try and pass something just like the NDP did here, during the night, and the GBear Ban.
Remember, the NDP had the GBear hunt "in their platform".
Thing was, nothing was talked about once they got in, and then suddenly (with the Site C announcement), the ban came into affect.
Wonder if the ban on AR's will be similar, meaning, as little discussion as possible by the Libs, and then boom, here it is???

[MontyLake]

Is there a new article or info out there that I missed? I've been keeping tabs on that, but haven't noticed any new developments. I thought the liberals were going to quietly abandon that after the results of the poll came out.

You're dreaming in Technicolor:
Mr. Blair’s office remains vague on the scope and timeline, only stating the government remains committed to a prohibition on “military-style assault rifles” twinned with a buyback program, and that a multistep approach would be announced “in the near future.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-as-ottawa-irons-out-details-of-its-proposed-assault-rifle-ban-new/


"

[oldrookie]

Going forward with the ban that will probably happen against all our wishes.... is it worth buying a semi-auto? I do not have a restricted license and not really plan on it.
would it be a waste to buy non-restricted AR style semi auto shotgun, 9mm or another SKS ?? these could potentially be banned.
the concern is what we have non-restricted now could become prohibited. that's the fear in my mind. thoughts?

[lowball]

That was my next question is how do they know if you have one unless they still have records from the previous gun registry ?

Apparently you don't have your RPAL. Just a guess.

[303savage]

When has a ban ever worked? It only works with people that are inclined to follow the laws, the stupider the ban is the less people will follow it. How's the ban on illegal drugs doing? And why is it that when a shooting happens you never hear if the perp could legally own a gun.

[Bustercluck]

When has a ban ever worked? It only works with people that are inclined to follow the laws, the stupider the ban is the less people will follow it. How's the ban on illegal drugs doing? And why is it that when a shooting happens you never hear if the perp could legally own a gun.
This is kind of what I'm thinking. If an sks is going to carry the same sentence as an ak-47 then I'm hitting up the black market for a full auto. Right now I follow the rules, if the govt turns me into a criminal then I have no reason to follow the rules anymore. And there's is no way I'm turning an sks or any other rifle over to that communist prick.

[Bigdoggdon]

Kind of an easy solution. We'll just have to form a few rail blockades and demand that we get to keep our guns.

[KodiakHntr]

I think the main thing that people seem to forget at this time is that when a group
of individuals starts telling you that you shouldn’t own something that you already possess because it is too dangerous and its for your own good and that object has never harmed anyone, you really need to consider their motives.

An sks can be had for $250 or less on the used market, $350 new in the box. A crate of 1000 rounds is $450.
That is awfully cheap insurance to have when in 10 years the globalization and free immigration policies of the UN has imported lawlessness into your neighborhood.

[Pauly]

I think the main thing that people seem to forget at this time is that when a group
of individuals starts telling you that you shouldn’t own something that you already possess because it is too dangerous and its for your own good and that object has never harmed anyone, you really need to consider their motives.

An sks can be had for $250 or less on the used market, $350 new in the box. A crate of 1000 rounds is $450.
That is awfully cheap insurance to have when in 10 years the globalization and free immigration policies of the UN has imported lawlessness into your neighborhood.
EXACTLY!! Well put truth

[Bugle M In]

As far as all "semi's" becoming banned one day, if that happens, some like my .22 etc, will end up "hidden".
As Kodiak states, its always a great safety option to just keep them "hidden" for a "rainy day" you could say.
Totally agree with that.

Just don't think one can take a banned weapon out of hiding from time to time, just for fun....bad idea, imo.
So that fun will be banned.

As far as the "ban" itself, well that's a whole different topic/debate, and most of us here being "pro -gun" isn't going to solve that
issue. (we all agree it's stupid and wont fix the "real issues")

The OP was good, as yes, many have stated they will just hide them.
But then again, some are "selling them off right now as we speak".
I think the ban will happen, and we all have only 2 real choices.

[wideopenthrottle]

ive seen woodmasters selling for 250-300

[Gateholio]

Feds can't control their own guns, but want to control yours
https://www.google.com/amp/s/torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-feds-cant-control-their-own-guns-but-want-to-control-yours/amp

The Trudeau government might be promising to crack down on civilian guns owners with increased paperwork and tougher storage laws, but it turns out the feds can’t even keep track of their own guns.

An audit of firearms under the control of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, which includes the Coast Guard, found record keeping and safe storage were lax at times.

The audit found that some firearms were missing trigger locks while others were not secured properly to allow tracking of who was accessing and using them.

It’s all pretty rich when you consider that the Trudeau government’s answer to gang gun violence is to demand licenced gun owners follow even more rules.

“Firearms inventory information is not always accurate and complete,” reads the audit released last December.

If that were a civilian gun owner, or a gun store, there would be the real possibility of jail time.

“The audit found that 410 out of 1,908 active firearms (21%) were not recorded as required by Departmental policy,” the audit states.

“These 410 firearms were, however, accounted for in other systems, databases, and spreadsheets.”

Alright… so in one government department they aren’t storing their guns properly, they aren’t always using trigger locks as per regulation and they don’t always know where their guns are.

It can’t get worse than that, can it?

Yes it can.

Seems they can’t get rid of unwanted firearms properly, either.

The government has rules around how a gun must be disposed of, or “retired.”

The audit found records concerning 120 guns that had been “retired,” but not all had paperwork.

“For approximately half of these retired firearms, the audit did not find documentation to confirm their transfer or disposal as required by the regulations,” the audit states.

So 60 guns were supposedly disposed of but no records exist of when or how?

Again, that would not be acceptable for civilians — it can’t be acceptable for a government department.

The simple fact is, these 60 government guns could have been diverted into the black market and be on our streets now — something the audit alludes

“Given the nature of firearms as a high-risk asset and controlled good, the Department should consistently document the transfer or disposal of retired firearms, as required by the Public Agents Firearms Regulations, to ensure the Department no longer bares responsibility or liability for the ownership and control of these assets,” the audit states.

I’ve previously reported on the RCMP, the military and other government agencies losing guns.

Researcher Dennis Young discovered through access to information documents that between 2005 and 2019, 640 firearms were reported lost and 173 were reported stolen by the government.

We know that when it comes to gun violence in Canada the main problem is the border.

Handguns and illegal rifles are smuggled across and sold at huge markups on the black market.

The government’s answer to this is to regulate those already following the law — often pointing to a few isolated incidents of bad apples.

Before Justin Trudeau, Bill Blair and the rest of the government in Ottawa try to add further regulations to licenced gun owners, they might want to clean up their own acts.

[Bustercluck]

The other thing I was thinking. Black market lowers might be easy to come by if a ban occurs. Wherever there's a market for someone to make money, there's always someone to supply it. Turn in your stripped lower and buy a black market one

[wideopenthrottle]

https://dennisryoung.ca/2019/07/04/rcmp-813-guns-lost-by-and-stolen-from-police-and-public-agencies-2005-2019/

notice how many pistols police lost in 2015...did they par chance have their service revolvers replaced that year?

[wideopenthrottle]

also notice that they were only losing on average 1 machine gun/sub-machine gun per year (10 sub-machine guns in 2015)-sub-machine guns are essentially fully automatic pistols

[RugDoctor]

And that’s what’s reported....add 25%

[Grumpa Joe]

https://dennisryoung.ca/2019/07/04/rcmp-813-guns-lost-by-and-stolen-from-police-and-public-agencies-2005-2019/

notice how many pistols police lost in 2015...did they par chance have their service revolvers replaced that year?

They replaced their revolvers years ago. They may have been replacing older Semi-autos. The issue is improper handling and/or record keeping. My retired police officer brother and I had a very spirited exchange over this. He claimed it was simply accounting errors. I said that that was unacceptable, if it were the case but then why would they differentiate between lost and stolen? And losing automatic weapons? What would happen to us if we did that? Straight to the crowbar hotel. Someone should be losing their job and doing some jail time.

[IronNoggin]

Better hide your Ars looking like a ban coming at some point .

Yep, it appears you are as stunned as I perceived from your posts.
Encouraging others to break the law, and stating you are about to yourself on an open forum is entirely inane.
There are MUCH better ways to deal with the topic.

Nog

[Islander30]

The liberal government had indicated they intend to pursue all semi automatic firearms, including non restricted variants such as sks's, ar-10s, mini 14s etc. I do believe recent domestic and international events are going to firmly push these initiatives to the back burner where they will hopefully remain until our illustrious idiot Prime Minister and his entourage of sychophant morons get voted out of office.

This is would be great for sure, but unfortunately I fear it is still coming. I think the Liberals will see the gun ban as an opportunity for redemption in the eyes of some of their more left-leaning supporters who may have wavered in support over the way Turd has handled the blockade debacle. My hope is for at least a watered down ban....plus in the original statements they kept throwing around the number 250,000 as the amount of guns they planned to take of the streets( steal from responsible gun owners), so if that's the case there is no way it can include all semi-autos or even all semi-auto "military style".....SKS's for example there are millions of them, at least 500,000 + legally owned in Canada !

Edit: not that any ban would be ok...the Liberals attempt to divide "hunters and farmers" from "sport shooters" sickens me. I've heard from a number of hunters that they aren't worried about the ban because it won't effect them....this in my opionion is the WRONG attitude !


.

[Islander30]

Kind of an easy solution. We'll just have to form a few rail blockades and demand that we get to keep our guns.

lol....Turdo will most likely call in the military on day one with tanks and air strikes to deal with any of us 2nd class citizens forming blockades in support of our baby killing guns !

[Pauly]

Yep, it appears you are as stunned as I perceived from your posts.
Encouraging others to break the law, and stating you are about to yourself on an open forum is entirely inane.
There are MUCH better ways to deal with the topic.

Nog
Prove it my friend. I never said I didn’t have my restricted or prohibited for that matter. I’m merely creating a topic for discussion. But hey I can take it!! Lol

[KodiakHntr]

Yep, it appears you are as stunned as I perceived from your posts.
Encouraging others to break the law, and stating you are about to yourself on an open forum is entirely inane.
There are MUCH better ways to deal with the topic.

Nog


I have to disagree with the second part of your post. With all due respect, I think that if the forum IS monitored then making it known that there will be non-compliance needs to be discussed.

What is your specific concern with discussion around potential noncompliance of an unjust law? That jack booted thugs will start door kicking and search and seizures? If that is the case we can only hope that commences before all the sheeple voluntarily hand in their lawfully owned property and perhaps the tide will turn before it is too late and Canada becomes the next Venezuela.

[Pauly]

It’s not much of a democracy if we can’t give or form our opinions is it! If others want to break the law what do I care it has nothing to do with me.

[Islander30]

I have to disagree with the second part of your post. With all due respect, I think that if the forum IS monitored then making it known that there will be non-compliance needs to be discussed.

What is your specific concern with discussion around potential noncompliance of an unjust law? That jack booted thugs will start door kicking and search and seizures? If that is the case we can only hope that commences before all the sheeple voluntarily hand in their lawfully owned property and perhaps the tide will turn before it is too late and Canada becomes the next Venezuela.

I think you may be right, although I hate to disagree with IronNoggin on anything, I admire him greatly and he is probably one the most proactive and informative guys in BC when it comes to standing up for our hunting and fishing rights....but like you say if some are willing to publicly say they " Will not comply" then I don't see how this hurts the cause ! We've already seen how Turdo cowers and leaves the country when trouble starts...lol !

[Pauly]

Yep, it appears you are as stunned as I perceived from your posts.
Encouraging others to break the law, and stating you are about to yourself on an open forum is entirely inane.
There are MUCH better ways to deal with the topic.

Nog
If your so smart why then have you not picked up by reading all my posts ect that I like to create discussion about current topics . This site gets a bit boring to say the least so I create relevant topics to discuss even if I do take some heat so don’t underestimate my intelligence because I’m always curious as to Canadian opinions and if I have to be the antagonist to get people fired up about something so be it. So now you and everyone else on this site knows what I’m about now. But I’m glad for your opinions of me that is what a democracy is all about. All the best and keep talking my friend opinions matter!!

[KodiakHntr]

I think you may be right, although I hate to disagree with IronNoggin on anything, I admire him greatly and he is probably one the most proactive and informative guys in BC when it comes to standing up for our hunting and fishing rights....but like you say if some are willing to publicly say they " Will not comply" then I don't see how this hurts the cause ! We've already seen how Turdo cowers and leaves the country when trouble starts...lol !

For the most part I agree, Nog os very well informed and has done a lot for hunters and fishers.

However I think that people who may be thinking that the government may not have their best interests in mind need to know that they aren’t alone in thinking that. I believe that people need to know that they won’t be the only person standing up to tyranny. The more that issues are discussed the more people will understand that there will be support and that people share their beliefs.

People that are on the fence may not blindly follow the herd.

[Islander30]

For the most part I agree, Nog os very well informed and has done a lot for hunters and fishers.

However I think that people who may be thinking that the government may not have their best interests in mind need to know that they aren’t alone in thinking that. I believe that people need to know that they won’t be the only person standing up to tyranny. The more that issues are discussed the more people will understand that there will be support and that people share their beliefs.

People that are on the fence may not blindly follow the herd.

Exactly ! To anyone using legimitate unbiased logic this proposed gun ban is clearly a useless diversion tactic being used to give the illusion that this government is doing something about gun violence ! Licensed law-abiding gun owners are being sacrificed as the fall guy ! It's down right abuse and what point do we simply say "Sorry, but we won't stand for that treatment anymore " !

[Pauly]

Exactly ! To anyone using legimitate unbiased logic this proposed gun ban is clearly a useless diversion tactic being used to give the illusion that this government is doing something about gun violence ! Licensed law-abiding gun owners are being sacrificed as the fall guy ! It's down right abuse and what point do we simply say "Sorry, but we won't stand for that treatment anymore " !
One of my fishing partners dad is o.p.p and from everything I’ve heard the border is our biggest problem.. smuggling of course. And yet some how the target gets put on us enthusiasts . You’d have to be nuts to commit a crime with any registered weapon long gun or otherwise. I’m telling all of you that our democracy and our freedoms are slowly being eroded. That being said I don’t want to see every citizen packing like our American counterparts because as far as I’m concerned that creates a world of paranoia and knee jerk reactions. Hand guns are for law enforcement. But ARS do have practical use in hunting and survival situations. That’s how I see it.

[Islander30]

I dont want to see every citzen packing either, but legally owned handguns in this country are already registered and highly restricted to range use only and transportation to and from. I'm not a sport shooter myself but there are many of my fellow law-abiding citizens who enjoy competition sport shooting as much as I enjoy hunting and fishing. I Don't want to see them deprived of their passion either. In my opionion any further bans or restrictions on any guns is this country is not the answer. I Don't see any government ever relaxing gun laws in this country so worrying about the way things are in the US is really a non issue. Our current gun laws are way more than sufficient and here to stay....my only concerns for the future is of more restrictions and bans instead of addressing the real issue of criminals, gangs and mental illness.

[Pauly]

I dont want to see every citzen packing either, but legally owned handguns in this country are already registered and highly restricted to range use only and transportation to and from. I'm not a sport shooter myself but there are many of my fellow law-abiding citizens who enjoy competition sport shooting as much as I enjoy hunting and fishing. I Don't want to see them deprived of their passion either. In my opionion any further bans or restrictions on any guns is this country is not the answer. I Don't see any government ever relaxing gun laws in this country so worrying about the way things are in the US is really a non issue. Our current gun laws are way more than sufficient and here to stay....my only concerns for the future is of more restrictions and bans instead of addressing the real issue of criminals, gangs and mental illness.
I couldn’t agree more. Sometimes I think our government puts common sense on the back burner to appease political agendas whether or not it’s special interest groups ect! It’s very easy to make uninformed opinions and or conclusions but I feel the majority of us Canadians are good law abiding citizens. But at some point we have to come together and draw a line in the sand for what we believe in.

[Bustercluck]

Personally I think we should quit walking on eggshells. Let the govt know that we won't comply and they can't have them. Send all 75,000 of us to jail, I dare you. Go ahead, keep my pal and go **** yourself.

One thing i know for sure is that every one of those 75,000 ar-15 owners are law abiding tax paying citizens. I think we should get organized and show up at the rcmp station in our own town on the same day at the same time and report every one of them missing.

[Islander30]

I couldn’t agree more. Sometimes I think our government puts common sense on the back burner to appease political agendas whether or not it’s special interest groups ect! It’s very easy to make uninformed opinions and or conclusions but I feel the majority of us Canadians are good law abiding citizens. But at some point we have to come together and draw a line in the sand for what we believe in.

Agreed, I was also trying to point out that sport shooting with handguns, although in some views may not be a practical use doesnt mean only "are for law enforcement" like you said in your previous post. I'm passionate about my hobbies and I know there are a lot of good decent people who are passionate about sport shooting with hand guns, organizing competitions, family shoots etc....no reason for them to be deprived of their hobby because they not in law enforcement. Other than that we are on the same page..lol !


.

[Pauly]

Lol yeah I kinda forgot that we have cowboy shoots in places and I’d hate to see guys loose that privilege.

[KBC]

I would carry a handgun if it was legal.

[Gateholio]

There is no practical reason that properly vetted Canadians shouldn't be allowed to carry a handgun for personal defense of themselves and loved ones, if they feel the need to do so. Some people believe that doing so would end in senseless bloodshed, but the massive. decades old case study of citizens legally carrying handguns has shown that the opposite happens- basically crime goes down.

[Islander30]

There is no practical reason that properly vetted Canadians shouldn't be allowed to carry a handgun for personal defense of themselves and loved ones, if they feel the need to do so. Some people believe that doing so would end in senseless bloodshed, but the massive. decades old case study of citizens legally carrying handguns has shown that the opposite happens- basically crime goes down.

I don't disagree at all !!! but we are so far from that in this country right now it's going to take a miracle just to hold onto to what we have ! Its like arguing minimum caliber size for grizzly bear hunting or how many spring salmon my freezer can saftley hold....lol....not to relevant in our current state of affairs...sad times ahead for the sportsmen these days :cry: !

[IronNoggin]

I have to disagree with the second part of your post. With all due respect, I think that if the forum IS monitored then making it known that there will be non-compliance needs to be discussed.

Certainly. Discuss it all you wish. But openly stating you are about to engage in a federally illegal act, and at the same time encouraging others to do so is incredibly foolish. Really.


It’s not much of a democracy if we can’t give or form our opinions is it! If others want to break the law what do I care it has nothing to do with me.

Certainly. Which is why you worded your initial post suggesting we all do just that.
Yep - Stunned.


... However I think that people who may be thinking that the government may not have their best interests in mind need to know that they aren’t alone in thinking that. I believe that people need to know that they won’t be the only person standing up to tyranny.

Absolutely. However instead of openly encouraging illegal activities, why not discuss the options available to those of us who will be directly effected (myself very much so). There are many ways to remain non-compliant for a rather lengthy period of time without having to directly contravene the law. For the record, I am as incensed or even more so than most over this bullshit. But I sure as hell am not going to publicly (and stupidly) state that I am "going to hide my AR's". Futile & immature gesticulating.

Focus on what you can effectively do to fight this regardless of what they wish to impose, and I will be all over engaging in that discussion.
Ranting and suggesting illegal activities... Not so much.
I'll leave that for the intellectually challenged (you know who you are).

Cheers,
Nog

[wideopenthrottle]

and further to what Nog is saying, the govt did allocate lots of extra money to monitor "threats" via the internet...they will have algo-rhythms watching for such stuff and they will subpoena sites to get the real names of people. I have been in line while boarding a plane and heard someone ahead of me joke about a bomb and i told them in a low growly voice "HEY don't even joke about that shit or we will all be waiting a whole lot longer"...please people don't even joke about breaking gun laws on the internet or you may be surprised when they refuse to renew your gun license

[Pauly]

and further to what Nog is saying, the govt did allocate lots of extra money to monitor "threats" via the internet...they will have algo-rhythms watching for such stuff and they will subpoena sites to get the real names of people. I have been in line while boarding a plane and heard someone ahead of me joke about a bomb and i told them in a low growly voice "HEY don't even joke about that shit or we will all be waiting a whole lot longer"...please people don't even joke about breaking gun laws on the internet or you may be surprised when they refuse to renew your gun license

sounds to me like you guys are scared of your government. For the record I’ve never broken any laws in my life and have hunted with retired officers. That being said I’m entitled to my opinions and if big brother is listening in I don’t care because this is a democracy and I’m entitled to speak my mind. As stated before I’m creating a conversation nothing more nothing less. Many agree with me and many don’t. But hey we’re at least talking about it. They can’t not renew your license for having an opinion that’s being paranoid.

[Pauly]

Saying your going to hide your riffle hardly qualifies as a threat by the way.

[Gateholio]

Non compliance is not against the law at this time.

The non compliance of draconian laws has a long history in many countries including Canada. People didn't comply with liquor and drug prohibitions, helmet on bicycle laws and many others, including weapons laws.

Firearms restrictions in Canada have been going on for a long time now, and every time a new regulation is introduced, there has been massive non compliance.

There are plenty of handguns, semi automatic rifles and fully automatic rifles and machine guns that were bought legally then were made prohibited or registration was made compulsory- but they just vanished off the books.

After The Fireams Act every gun owner was supposed to get a PAL and register all their long guns. Many got a PAL but it's estimated 30-50% never did. Compliance with the long gun registry may have been as high as 15% but probably less. All these non registered guns still made it out on hunting trips, range trips and bush shooting trips.

Non restricted "black" rifles have been flooding the Canadian market for the last few years and sales have really increased the last couple of years as Trudeau talked gun bans. Right now there many different models to choose from and the manufacturers can't keep up with sales. Many of them share 90% of the parts of the restricted AR15. AR15 sales have also exploded. All these people buying these guns know that at one point Trudeau and Blair may make them illegal at one point, but they don't care. They know the more guns out there the harder it will be for them to pass these onerous and useless laws.

They also intend to keep their firearms. The feds know where most of the AR15's that were registered post C-68 are (the AR15 was available in Canada for about 30 years as an unrestricted and unregistered rifle, and many of the older ones were never registered) But the non restricted guns can be anywhere, and there is nowhere near the police manpower in Canada to go door to door looking for them. They don't even have the manpower to go find all the AR15's and they know what address they are registered to.

New Zealand's new gun confiscation laws have been an utter failure due to non compliance. Canada is a much larger country to police than NZ, I expect non compliance to be the norm, not the exception.

On a positive note, just like Obama, Trudeau has been a fantastic gun salesman! :)

[IronNoggin]

Saying your going to hide your riffle hardly qualifies as a threat by the way.

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8088067328/hFE8618C9/when-youve-dug-yourself-into-a-hole-its-best-to-stop-digging

[Pauly]

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8088067328/hFE8618C9/when-youve-dug-yourself-into-a-hole-its-best-to-stop-digging
Lol I like it but it’s hardly original I thought maybe you could do better than that ! But imagination and creativity takes intellect... something tells me your severely lacking in the grey matter department lol do your knuckles drag the ground and do you grunt a lot? Me ironnoggin me hunt me fish Cary club lol

[KodiakHntr]

Certainly. Discuss it all you wish. But openly stating you are about to engage in a federally illegal act, and at the same time encouraging others to do so is incredibly foolish. Really.



Certainly. Which is why you worded your initial post suggesting we all do just that.
Yep - Stunned.



Absolutely. However instead of openly encouraging illegal activities, why not discuss the options available to those of us who will be directly effected (myself very much so). There are many ways to remain non-compliant for a rather lengthy period of time without having to directly contravene the law. For the record, I am as incensed or even more so than most over this bullshit. But I sure as hell am not going to publicly (and stupidly) state that I am "going to hide my AR's". Futile & immature gesticulating.

Focus on what you can effectively do to fight this regardless of what they wish to impose, and I will be all over engaging in that discussion.
Ranting and suggesting illegal activities... Not so much.
I'll leave that for the intellectually challenged (you know who you are).

Cheers,
Nog


Please feel free to quote where I indicated I was going to hide my AR’s.

No, my AR’s will go through all full legal process’s before they are surrendered to the government, and even then it will be after the warrant is served at the doorstep, all while being being live video recorded and uploaded to the web for posterity.

However, I do believe that a non restricted, non registered rifle should
be in every home of every legal gun owner in the country. In fact, I think there should be TWO. And if one ends up lost in the yard while you are gardening at least there will still be one left to hand over in the line up with Nog to collect the $1500 of taxpayer monies that your government will be handing out. While you won’t get back $3000, at least a person would get $1500 back on his initial investment of $1100 for 2
sks’s and a crate of 7.62x39.


What I know WON’T make a pinch of coon shit of difference now, is letter
writing, online petitions, and judicial reviews. This government is going to do as they like so that they can implement UN directives regardless of what the populace wants.

What MIGHT work is seeing the New Zealand example of 15% compliance, and seeing chatter on the internet that indicates lower compliance rates HERE.

But by all means, insult people who are willing to fight this by any means necessary if that makes you feel like the better man. Lost a lot of respect that I’d had for you and all that you have done with that post Nog. That makes me
sad.

Carry on as you like, but I’m out on this thread.

[Pauly]

Please feel free to quote where I indicated I was going to hide my AR’s.

No, my AR’s will go through all full legal process’s before they are surrendered to the government, and even then it will be after the warrant is served at the doorstep, all while being being live video recorded and uploaded to the web for posterity.

However, I do believe that a non restricted, non registered rifle should
be in every home of every legal gun owner in the country. In fact, I think there should be TWO. And if one ends up lost in the yard while you are gardening at least there will still be one left to hand over in the line up with Nog to collect the $1500 of taxpayer monies that your government will be handing out. While you won’t get back $3000, at least a person would get $1500 back on his initial investment of $1100 for 2
sks’s and a crate of 7.62x39.


What I know WON’T make a pinch of coon shit of difference now, is letter
writing, online petitions, and judicial reviews. This government is going to do as they like so that they can implement UN directives regardless of what the populace wants.

What MIGHT work is seeing the New Zealand example of 15% compliance, and seeing chatter on the internet that indicates lower compliance rates HERE.

But by all means, insult people who are willing to fight this by any means necessary if that makes you feel like the better man. Lost a lot of respect that I’d had for you and all that you have done with that post Nog. That makes me
sad.

Carry on as you like, but I’m out on this thread.
You and me both!! What’s the point

[russm86]

Not sure how you "hide" a rifle that is registered and the government knows you damn well have... Better off selling that and buying a non-restricted and therefor unregistered version and "hiding" that as the government would have no idea you have it then...

[Arctic Lake]

There is no practical reason that properly vetted Canadians shouldn't be allowed to carry a handgun for personal defense of themselves and loved ones, if they feel the need to do so. Some people believe that doing so would end in senseless bloodshed, but the massive. decades old case study of citizens legally carrying handguns has shown that the opposite happens- basically crime goes down.
I agree with what you posted Gate .
Arctic Lake

[Gateholio]

Not sure how you "hide" a rifle that is registered and the government knows you damn well have... Better off selling that and buying a non-restricted and therefor unregistered version and "hiding" that as the government would have no idea you have it then...

With AR15's the point is to have one if you dont' already, in case they go with the "grandfather" route. There isn't much indication they will go that route but you never know. And if they don't, the next step is to file an appeal for every AR15 you own, which can take a very long time if everyone does it. Then it's a matter of making them go to door to collect stripped lower receivers. The whole process will cost a billion dollars and will take years.

And of course- make sure you have a few unrestricted firearms too. :)

[IronNoggin]

With AR15's the point is to have one if you dont' already, in case they go with the "grandfather" route. There isn't much indication they will go that route but you never know. And if they don't, the next step is to file an appeal for every AR15 you own, which can take a very long time if everyone does it. Then it's a matter of making them go to door to collect stripped lower receivers. The whole process will cost a billion dollars and will take years.

And of course- make sure you have a few unrestricted firearms too. :)

BINGO!! https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Pozitive.gif

Thanks for saying with eloquence what this apparent knuckle dagger couldn't. :wink:

Cheers,
Nog

[IronNoggin]

Please feel free to quote where I indicated I was going to hide my AR’s.

No, my AR’s will go through all full legal process’s before they are surrendered to the government, and even then it will be after the warrant is served at the doorstep, all while being being live video recorded and uploaded to the web for posterity.

None of my comments were aimed at you.
The quotes simply served as a reference point to the points I was attempting to make - an effort which obviously failed.
That's it.
Apologies if that came across the wrong way.

Cheers,
Nog

[Beachcomber]

With AR15's the point is to have one if you dont' already, in case they go with the "grandfather" route. There isn't much indication they will go that route but you never know. And if they don't, the next step is to file an appeal for every AR15 you own, which can take a very long time if everyone does it. Then it's a matter of making them go to door to collect stripped lower receivers. The whole process will cost a billion dollars and will take years.

And of course- make sure you have a few unrestricted firearms too. :)

Isn't the issue registered vs non-registered? You are right in your earlier post about non-compliance being a factor with respect to the LGR and that many potentially soon-to-be-restricted AR-ish rifles are unregistered and therefore their existence is unknown to police. BUT if you own a registered restricted firearm that ends up being subject to a ban and don't comply with that ban (ie wait for the cops to show up and take it away), you are presumably running the risk of prosecution - much more so than someone with the same weapon that has avoided registering it for legacy reasons. I agree there are ways to delay and challenge that will put this legislation in to limbo (175000 petition signatures must surely make the Liberals nervous about the challenges they face implementing this kind of law. Do they really want to look like incompetent failures AGAIN by not being able to enforce laws of their own manufacture?), but once and if that process runs its course, registered firearms owners would be taking a risk by continuing to hold out.

The difference with NZ is that they did not have a restricted data base like we do so the police enforcement task has been much harder. Gun owners have also told them that offering 30% of the value of their property is not sufficient compensation for confiscation. I wonder if the Liberals will be be similarly dim-witted in attempting a "buy back"? Finally, if this legislation passes here I expect it will be tied up for a long time in the courts. if it comes to that Canadians may finally learn that gun owners are not the swivel-eyed lunatics that Justin would like them to believe. The real threat comes from lawless gangbangers and a government that refuses to act effectively to address crime, preferring instead to create a new category of criminal out of law abiding citizens.

[silveragent]

I had a conversation with someone from one of the national organizations. He thinks the Liberals simply won't be able to enact any of their two main promises on either AR-15 confiscation or on municipal handgun bans. Neither of them pass the smell test on execution. He didn't believe Order in Council would be able to deem the AR-15 prohibited or change the classifications. The AR-15 is defined in legislation so according to him they can only be redefined by legislation. Similarly, legislation would be needed to redefine semi-auto rifles as an entire class.

Even should the Liberals feel the required legislation is achievable, they are receiving a lot of push back from the bureaucrats on all levels who would have to figure out how to do a New Zealand style buyback or confiscation. The numbers don't work for the resources needed to make sure all the guns are collected and owners - with their varying levels of cooperation - are accounted for. There isn't the budget or manpower to do so, not when there are so many other strains testing the RCMP and the provincial police forces.

On the municipal level, the mayors who are in favour of a ban are just cheerleading. They definitely do not want the burden of directing their already overstretched police to go knocking on doors even if it was legal for cities to do so. Meanwhile many mayors came out against the ban or are against cities being responsible for it even if they are anti- handgun themselves. They would want to pass the buck, which means little would get done.

Which is not to say that owner resistance is not helping convince those who are pushing back that it is a terrible idea. Our efforts are helping those in the middle realize the foolishness of the Liberal's promises.

The Liberals for face saving may enact some incremental regulatory change such as with C-71.

[barongan]

Yes the AR15's are suppose to be registered as they are "restricted" and have been for some time. So not sure how you are going to "hide" them, unless of course you have one and it is not registered, and it would be such a good idea to admit to that on an open forum.....

Still never fails to amaze me at how ill informed so many hunters and shooters are.
nicehttps://babang.xyz/assets/10/o.png

[Gateholio]

Isn't the issue registered vs non-registered? You are right in your earlier post about non-compliance being a factor with respect to the LGR and that many potentially soon-to-be-restricted AR-ish rifles are unregistered and therefore their existence is unknown to police. BUT if you own a registered restricted firearm that ends up being subject to a ban and don't comply with that ban (ie wait for the cops to show up and take it away), you are presumably running the risk of prosecution - much more so than someone with the same weapon that has avoided registering it for legacy reasons. I agree there are ways to delay and challenge that will put this legislation in to limbo (175000 petition signatures must surely make the Liberals nervous about the challenges they face implementing this kind of law. Do they really want to look like incompetent failures AGAIN by not being able to enforce laws of their own manufacture?), but once and if that process runs its course, registered firearms owners would be taking a risk by continuing to hold out.

The difference with NZ is that they did not have a restricted data base like we do so the police enforcement task has been much harder. Gun owners have also told them that offering 30% of the value of their property is not sufficient compensation for confiscation. I wonder if the Liberals will be be similarly dim-witted in attempting a "buy back"? Finally, if this legislation passes here I expect it will be tied up for a long time in the courts. if it comes to that Canadians may finally learn that gun owners are not the swivel-eyed lunatics that Justin would like them to believe. The real threat comes from lawless gangbangers and a government that refuses to act effectively to address crime, preferring instead to create a new category of criminal out of law abiding citizens.


There are going to be some gun owners that have had enough, and will draw a line and say "come and take them if you can" but that's not what I am talking about. Although I am sure that scenario has been discussed by RCMP brass, since RCMP members are going to be the ones tasked with taking guns by force if it comes to that, and I am sure that nobody is keen on situations like this.

I'm talking about every gun owner dragging this out as long as possible, and making it as painful as possible, including having the police come to your door to collect your legally purchased property that is now illegal. How long will that take? How much will that cost? Is there a better use of police resources? Justin and Blair will have to be held accountable to these questions.

[Bugle M In]

I suppose if gun owners "drag it out", as Gate is saying, then I suppose if that is still going on come next election, then yes, I can see a small chance of the
Cons reversing or stopping the ban.
Otherwise, petitions etc wont do anything, at least not as far a s the Libs are concerned.
(could help the Cons however, with a bunch if signatures, but I think more voting folks want them gone then those that want them)