2nd opinion on vet? Advice requested

[ActionJackson017]

So, a month ago in Vancouver we got that big snowfall and while I was out shoveling my labrador was naturally outside with me playing. I didn't think anything about chucking her ball in to the snow up the street until and off she ran after the ball like a bat out of hell, only go to all Bambi on ice once she arrived near the ball. I didn't think anything about it at the time, but she's since really been favoring her hind right leg and obviously strained something.

Fast forward a couple weeks and I took her in to our vet as she's still prone to limping after exercise and lets this leg splay out beside her instead of curling up like normal when she sits or lays down. A follow up vet appointment two weeks later (earlier this week) and both vets at this hospital we go to indicate I will likely need to take her in for surgery, that it's basically a foregone conclusion she's ruptured a tendon in her knee. Follow up recommendation for blood work and xrays to confirm, and today I get a call from the specialist.

What I'm concerned about is this all seems really rushed to me, they want bloodwork done prior to the xrays and want me to book the xray and the surgery for the same day.. and only like a week from now. Hmmm.. Well, my dog obviously can't speak for herself but she seems pretty much normal until she runs around a while, and then she's stiff on that leg 30-45 mins after she cools down.

So.. do I blindly follow these experts opinion? My thought is I need to get a 2nd or 3rd opinion. So on that note, does anyone have a vet they trust in the Lower Mainland? I'll take her to Chilliwak for all I care so long as it's something I can trust and not someone simply after my wallet. Seems major surgery, my dog will be laid up for 4-6 weeks thereafter. I don't want to rush in to this for her sake either.

Cheers.

[srupp]

Hmm last 3 labs needed this surgery, last 2 needed both rear legs done .
Advice..you must trust your vet.period.
They too advised a lot of tests..for cancer etc.we declined but got the surgery...Ebony got the surgery @ 8 years old now coming up on 10 years.
It pained me to watch her struggle in pain.we owe our 4 legged family proper medical care.
I do not know qualified trustworthy vets down province, but that's my views.
Good luck.
Steven

[Iron Glove]

35rem on this site is a Vet, maybe PM him for a bit of advice / referral ??

[huntingfamily]

Personally, I would get a 2nd opinion.
The way you have described, it doesn't sound like it's urgent.
I don't see a downside to that...

[Foxton Gundogs]

Second opinion for sure

[Beachcomber]

https://amherstvethospital.com. They recently removed tumour from my Brittany's lip and did an excellent job. Not cheap but not even close to the quote by these guys: https://canadawestvets.com (Apparently very good but prices are off the charts). Anyway, have always had good experiences with Amherst

[dru88]

I would be getting a second opinion for sure it cant hurt.

[ActionJackson017]

Thanks all for weighing in. Canada West is where I've been referred to and I just can't help but feel like I'm being pushed in to this. No prices or options offered, it's all just "do this, do that, book now, see you next week, and have your credit card handy".

I see my dog, and she seems normal and not in any discomfort. She doesn't react if I manipulate or massage her leg... I take her for on her regular 20 minute walk and there are no problems. I'm inclined to just get her xrays and then see what they turn up.

[russm]

I went for a second opinion with one of our bulldogs, now we have a better vet. Our previous one seemed to always charge a lot, i fianlly decided to ask another vet what theynwouldve charged for the same stuff and it was a fractionof the price. Not just the price though, he is a better vet and always goes for the most affordable simple option, a lot of vets seem to just immediately go for blood tests,xrays etc.

We use Dr,Om at the cloverdale animal hospital.

[albravo2]

I highly recommend Eagleview Veterinary in Squamish. We went to a shyster here in town for a couple visits then went to Eagleview and I'd never go anywhere else. One of our dogs is lumpy as hell... the shyster wanted to remove each lump as it came up but Eagleview said the lumps seemed to bother us more than the dog, so why bother?

[Stump]

Check out the vet in 100 mile friends were quoted a approx $5000 on the coast and got procedure dun for $2000 up at 100 mile

[ACB]

Me personally, I would get a second opinion. I'v grown to become skeptical of vets that want to rush into treatments of my dogs. I'v had a older Bl Lab female that had fat lumps on her sternum that we had tested and turned out to be fat, the head vet at that clinic was treating her this one day and it was his first time treating her and he says you know, we can remove those lumps. I told the vet that she is 12yrs.old and she is only going to get knocked out one more time. She live a good life to 16yrs. old, fat lumps and all.

[jlirot]

I like Galloway in Richmond.

https://www.stevestonvethospital.com/

[knothead]

I had a similar problem with my Cane Corso, she is a large dog(130lbs) and plays hard with our male Cane Corso so they tend to strain and pull muscles quite often. took my girl to vet for a limping rear leg and after X-rays was told she needs surgery.
This surgery would essentially cut her leg off and reattach. Well we were planning an Alaska trip with dogs in about a month and decided that doing this trip with a dog in that kind of recovery would be impossible so we put off the surgery and started the dog on 'Recover' and cbd. Within a month the dog was fine and running around as normal and is still fine a year later.
I'm not saying the vet was not doing what they thought was best but in our case it seems it was unnecessary at that time.
By the way we actually really like our vet(Albatross in Langley) and continue to take our dogs there. They weren't actually the ones to push for the surgery as they don't do that kind of work at their clinic but recommended the surgeon we did see.

[BigSlapper]

Dr. Grant Cumberbirch / Amherst Veterinary Hospital (Kitsilano/4th & Alma area) .... Grant has a black lab, is a hunter/fisher and knows his stuff. I'm now in Kamloops but use Grant exclusively for my DD vet needs. Good man.

[35rem]

So.. do I blindly follow these experts opinion?

No, of course you do not have to. However, based on your description your dog likely has a torn ACL. This is a very common problem in Labradors, Cane Corsos, Rottweilers and a few other large breeds. Last week I saw 6 torn ACLs and I only worked 3 days...
As recommended, surgery is the best option and it is prudent to have bloodwork done before surgery making sure your dog has no underlying issues hampering a safe anesthesia. There are several surgical techniques; TPLO or TTA have the best papers at this moment.
Since you already have a referral to a specialist, go and see what she/he has to say. Make an appointment for a consultation first and book surgery if you feel confident with that doctor.
Dr. Mark Smith is a surgeon who works out of several clinics in the Lower Mainland with tons of experience with these surgeries.

[Ron.C]

For what its worth,

My brother in laws GWP had a torn ACL at a young age. There were cheaper treatment options but they elected to have the TPLO. It required allot of care and rehab but its been two years and that dog is as fast and agile as ever and shows no indication of ever being injured.

[Dakota Creek]

For what its worth,

My brother in laws GWP had a torn ACL at a young age. There were cheaper treatment options but they elected to have the TPLO. It required allot of care and rehab but its been two years and that dog is as fast and agile as ever and shows no indication of ever being injured.

Was going to say exactly the same thing. Our lab tore her ACL in a freak accident when she was just over a year old. We went with the TPLO surgery and YES it is a lot of care and rehab …. do EVERYTHING that is suggested in the rehab in the time frames suggested. Post surgery find a vet specializing in rehab as they should have a water treadmill which works wonders in the recovery. Her recovery went very well and she was back hunting and running hunt tests the following season.

[Greg3093]

A few years ago my dog tore one of his tendons in his knee, he would favour it for a few weeks and then go crazy out in the yard and come in limping again, we took him to the vet to have him checked out and they told us he had torn one of his ACL's and that he would need surgery, when the vet was checking him out she actually took the knee and twisted it and bent it back and tore it completely, dog yelped and that was how she did the diagnosis, surgery was the only option and explained to us that the dog would end up with having to do the other knee within the next year due to it favouring the damaged knee after surgery at a cost of 5k per knee when the time came. I think that vets play on peoples emotions 90% of the time and I avoid them like the plague, but my wife wanted a second opinion so we took our dog to a vet out of city and had a sit down with her. we explained what the other vet did for her diagnosis and the new vet said that is typical, the tendon could have been damaged as our dog would be lame for a few days and then fine, what the original vet did was tear the tendon completely as there is no way to tell if it is detached, and because our dog was walking on it and using it still she explained it was damaged but now he couldn't use the leg at all. the second vet gave us 2 options, surgery, or a brace, we chose a brace after I did some research on how they repair the knee during surgery, and I wasn't willing to see my dog go through the surgery once little own a second time down the road. it is 2 years later and the brace actually works, he has to wear it anytime he goes for a walk or a play but it doesn't impede him, at first he didn't like it but now doesn't even bother with it. he did damage his other knee 6 months later but we took him back to the second vet and she assessed him as yes it was damaged but let him take it easy for a few months and nothing strenuous, again he is all good and only wears the brace on his original damaged knee.
He has done so well that several of our friends have had their dogs damage their knees and they have gotten the braces as well and there dogs are recovering and recovered just fine. Braces were around 1k when we bought ours and it had to come out of the US through a local vet, my buddy just got one out of Victoria as someone there is now making them, the vet needs to measure and send a form fitting cast away so they can make and fit the cast for the dogs leg. So there are other options, most vets will only tell you of surgery as they get a % when the surgeon does the work. If you PM me I can get the info for you of who the vet was we went through, she is on the island but she maybe able to recommend a vet in your area that will help you with finding a brace if that is the direction you want to go.

[labguy]

A few years ago my dog tore one of his tendons in his knee, he would favour it for a few weeks and then go crazy out in the yard and come in limping again, we took him to the vet to have him checked out and they told us he had torn one of his ACL's and that he would need surgery, when the vet was checking him out she actually took the knee and twisted it and bent it back and tore it completely, dog yelped and that was how she did the diagnosis, surgery was the only option and explained to us that the dog would end up with having to do the other knee within the next year due to it favouring the damaged knee after surgery at a cost of 5k per knee when the time came. I think that vets play on peoples emotions 90% of the time and I avoid them like the plague, but my wife wanted a second opinion so we took our dog to a vet out of city and had a sit down with her. we explained what the other vet did for her diagnosis and the new vet said that is typical, the tendon could have been damaged as our dog would be lame for a few days and then fine, what the original vet did was tear the tendon completely as there is no way to tell if it is detached, and because our dog was walking on it and using it still she explained it was damaged but now he couldn't use the leg at all. the second vet gave us 2 options, surgery, or a brace, we chose a brace after I did some research on how they repair the knee during surgery, and I wasn't willing to see my dog go through the surgery once little own a second time down the road. it is 2 years later and the brace actually works, he has to wear it anytime he goes for a walk or a play but it doesn't impede him, at first he didn't like it but now doesn't even bother with it. he did damage his other knee 6 months later but we took him back to the second vet and she assessed him as yes it was damaged but let him take it easy for a few months and nothing strenuous, again he is all good and only wears the brace on his original damaged knee.
He has done so well that several of our friends have had their dogs damage their knees and they have gotten the braces as well and there dogs are recovering and recovered just fine. Braces were around 1k when we bought ours and it had to come out of the US through a local vet, my buddy just got one out of Victoria as someone there is now making them, the vet needs to measure and send a form fitting cast away so they can make and fit the cast for the dogs leg. So there are other options, most vets will only tell you of surgery as they get a % when the surgeon does the work. If you PM me I can get the info for you of who the vet was we went through, she is on the island but she maybe able to recommend a vet in your area that will help you with finding a brace if that is the direction you want to go.

Thanks for that input. An interesting and perhaps adequate approach for some dogs but not for all dogs with knee injuries. Age and activity levels should be considered when deciding on an appropriate response.

A knee brace, the same as in humans, might work as long as your not running endurance races, climbing goat mountains or going on extended backpack sheep hunts.

There are many things one can do to reduce the risk of knee injuries before they occur as per this thread:

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?146133-Reducing-the-risk-of-knee-injury-in-dogs

PS Greg3093. The vet who did the initial examination did nothing wrong by manipulating the knee as described. If the ligament tore completely from the exam it would have torn by itself later. ACL injuries DO NOT heal by themselves. The way she did the exam was the appropriate way of initially diagnosing this injury.

[35rem]

most vets will only tell you of surgery as they get a % when the surgeon does the work.

Nonsense; it is illegal for veterinarians to demand or offer kickbacks for referral. Our regulatory body, the CVBC, will come down hard on any veterinarian doing so. Please do not make unfounded allegations in a public forum.

My experience with braces has been that the generic ones generally are a poor fit and, as a consequence, do not stabilize the knee properly and lead to pressure sores. Custom fitted ones, like those made by Orthopets do a bit better, but will run >$1500. Braces are a great solution for offering temporary support while something is healing. I like them for aiding patients with torn Achilles tendons after the surgical repair for example. However, a torn cruciate will never heal so the dog would need to wear the brace for life. Braces do not have an infinite lifespan; they will likely need replacement every 2 years and at >$1500 for a decent brace you are looking at the same expense as TPLO surgery over the dog's lifetime, but with a significant worse outcome..

[weatherbyjunkie]

My vet recently said I needed my dogs knee done. I’m skeptical by nature,so I sought out a well renowned vet. She said skip xrays to save me money,direct referral to a surgeon at Boundary Bay Vet Specialties. I went and saw him,he did an extensive exam,watched videos I took of my dog walking and running to see the lameness in slow motion. He says knees are fine don’t need xrays or surgery-he’s got a torn groin and some tearing or sprain in the bicep. Walks me next door to their physio department and 4 months later my dog is better than new,for about 1/5 the cost of surgery. A combo of ultra sound,laser,ice,underwater treadmill and then ice. CanWest has a good reputation, just bc you go there does not mean their surgeon will say you need surgery. CanWest and BBVS have vets that are far more highly trained and educated than most vets and local clinics