Grazing lease question

[jamfarm]

Quick question about roads through Grazing Leases. When you use ImapBC, sometimes certain roads seem to be excluded from the lease. For example, I've attached a photo from ImapBC of the area around Scuitto Lake, south of Kamloops.

Is it possible to travel on those roads to get to crown land beyond them or would a person be trespassing?
Thanks.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7718&stc=1

[ghost]

i drive on the roads to get to crown land

[grantk]

Those are typically crown right-of-ways through the lease land. Drive on through.

[ghost]

what areas are you thinking of

[rocksteady]

Grazing leases allow applicant to run cattle on said area, no other authority, but if you hunt there respect the rules of gates.. leave them how you found them.. open or clised6

[Slinky Pickle]

There's a bit of misinformation in this thread. A lease holder can, in fact, post the property as no trespassing. He/she is basically renting the property from the government and can restrict access to it as well as the roads through it. While many lease holders allow movement through their lease hold lands, others do not. You need to take it up with the specific lease holder.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/natural-resource-use/land-water-use/crown-land/grazing_lease_code_of_practice_august_2016_final.p df

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/natural-resource-use/land-water-use/crown-land/grazingleases_offroadvehiclerecreation_flnro_facts heet.pdf

From the BC Land Act.
Right of possession to acquired Crown land
65 Except as otherwise provided in this Act, a person lawfully entitled to occupy Crown land under a certificate of purchase, lease, right of way, easement or licence of occupation may, for that land, take proceedings against any person for recovery of possession of, or for trespass to, the interest in the land in the same manner and to the same extent as if the person were the registered owner of the land.




Just to muddy the waters a wee bit more, a grazing lease is quite different to a grazing license. A license allows for cattle grazing, a lease is a true lease on the land.

[jamfarm]

There's a bit of misinformation in this thread. A lease holder can, in fact, post the property as no trespassing. He/she is basically renting the property from the government and can restrict access to it as well as the roads through it. While many lease holders allow movement through their lease hold lands, others do not. You need to take it up with the specific lease holder.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/natural-resource-use/land-water-use/crown-land/grazing_lease_code_of_practice_august_2016_final.p df

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/natural-resource-use/land-water-use/crown-land/grazingleases_offroadvehiclerecreation_flnro_facts heet.pdf

From the BC Land Act.
Right of possession to acquired Crown land


65
Except as otherwise provided in this Act, a person lawfully entitled to occupy Crown land under a certificate of purchase, lease, right of way, easement or licence of occupation may, for that land, take proceedings against any person for recovery of possession of, or for trespass to, the interest in the land in the same manner and to the same extent as if the person were the registered owner of the land.




Just to muddy the waters a wee bit more, a grazing lease is quite different to a grazing license. A license allows for cattle grazing, a lease is a true lease on the land.

I'm familiar with Grazing Licenses (RAN etc), there's been good info here on HBC regarding licenses vs leases.

I'll stir the pot a bit more, the road in question is actually a named FSR. The multiple properties that make up the lease are on either side of the FSR, and the boundaries (property lines) of the individual properties don't cover the road.

I'm thinking it's okay to travel on the road itself, I'm going to go to ServiceBC to see if they can help.

[Slinky Pickle]

I'm familiar with Grazing Licenses (RAN etc), there's been good info here on HBC regarding licenses vs leases.

I'll stir the pot a bit more, the road in question is actually a named FSR. The multiple properties that make up the lease are on either side of the FSR, and the boundaries (property lines) of the individual properties don't cover the road.

I'm thinking it's okay to travel on the road itself, I'm going to go to ServiceBC to see if they can help.

Forestry will also have a record of who owns what all along that road. If you don't get an answer at Service BC then check with them.

[Bugle M In]

I always understood that most roads aren't made by the holder of the lease.
Thus, you can drive them.
Just cant go off of them without permission.
Also, some roads have changed from their original course, and in that case, then you are driving on lease without permission.
That's how it was explained to me once.

But, unless we have a CO or other in position to verify it, don't take my word for it.
Just what I was explained.

[Slinky Pickle]

I always understood that most roads aren't made by the holder of the lease.
Thus, you can drive them.
Just cant go off of them without permission.
Also, some roads have changed from their original course, and in that case, then you are driving on lease without permission.
That's how it was explained to me once.

But, unless we have a CO or other in position to verify it, don't take my word for it.
Just what I was explained.

I have an FSR that crosses my property. The road is private and built with permission and the forest company that built the road has an easement on the land title. They are the only ones that can legally use the road (other than me). There are many roads built using this method of forest access and although it upsets a few people to see a road on crown land beyond the private property, there's often no legal way for them to get to it with a vehicle.

[Bugle M In]

I have an FSR that crosses my property. The road is private and built with permission and the forest company that built the road has an easement on the land title. They are the only ones that can legally use the road (other than me). There are many roads built using this method of forest access and although it upsets a few people to see a road on crown land beyond the private property, there's often no legal way for them to get to it with a vehicle.

Okay.
Lots of different scenarios also.
Where I hunt mule deer, it is grazing lease, but no private property there at all (maybe off in one little corner (its a big area)
There are roads in there, that don't cut thru private property, just grazing lease, and that was more what I was thinking.
Your example is another issue or way it can come about.
Appreciate the clarification.
Thanks

[longwalk]

And in some cases a fsr cuts through private property with the agreement of the landowner and said road is used by all to access crown land.

[RyoTHC]

[QUOTE=Slinky Pickle;2142868]I have an FSR that crosses my property. The road is private and built with permission and the f

[grantk]

The roads in question posted in the picture by the OP are excluded from the lease as a crown right-of-way, and are shown that way for a reason. You may drive on these right-of-way roads without needing permission from anyone, and only the crown would be allowed to restrict access to the road, however the land on either side is under lease and could be under access restrictions. Most roads through lease land are NOT this way. This is why the regulations state that you may be trespassing if on enclosed lease land, and you must have permission to hunt on grazing lease land while it is occupied by livestock; the lease is essentially treated as private property.

[264mag]

Bumping this thread up with a question.

Do you need permission to hunt on foot on a grazing lease that does not have cattle on it?

[Treed]

You cannot hunt on lease land, it gives the owners the same rights as private land owners to exclusive use, at least while they hold the lease. Land controlled under a license gives them the right to graze cattle in the land but does not allow them to restrict other uses. That being said, you cannot hunt on license land when their are cows on the land and it is during the period that they are allowed to graze their cattle. One thing I’m not clear on is what is means by when cattle are present. Does it mean anywhere on the lease or in the same area that you are hunting. Anyone else know the answer to that?

[Swamp mule]

On any Grazing Lease, you require permission to hunt on it at any point. It is basically treated like private land and access can be restricted.
Bumping this thread up with a question.

Do you need permission to hunt on foot on a grazing lease that does not have cattle on it?

[Swamp mule]

The distinguishing point between Grazing Licenses and Grazing Leases. Grazing Licenses are authorized under the Range Act in two forms of tenures, most frequently as Licenses and less frequently as permits, and these authorizations start with "RAN" followed by six digits, as an example "RAN123456" as it appears on IMapBC under the "Active range tenures". Whereas, Grazing Leases are authorized under the Lands Act and identified as just as a number, as example "#12345" as identified in IMapBC. Grazing Licenses/Permits only authorizes the tenure holder the right to the forage for grazing purposes and thus can not restrict other natural resource users from accessing the landbase. Even if cattle are actively grazing on a license/permit area, access can not be restricted. Pending on region in bc, most active grazing occurs from mid April to end of October. Whereas, Grazing Leases is another complex tenuring system, the leasee has the "right to quiet enjoyment" what that means is up for interpretation, the leasee also pays taxes on the landbase. If there are gazetted right of ways (such as public road infrastructure or FSR's) through the grazing lease, then access should not be denied as noted in IMapbc. If at anytime you are unsure, refer to your mapping of location and or talk to the local rancher to do your due diligence so you are not in the wrong.

[Rieber]

This is very informative. I'm glad I stopped by this thread. Thank you.