FN and extending the ATV ban around Elephant Hill

[Bugle M In]

Well, it never stops does it.
They cause the fire, and then "oh poor us" we can no longer sustain our hunting!
Well, welcome to the frickin club!!!

Anyways, they want MORE ATV RESTRICTION to include Hat Cr Area:
(fyi, I don't own atv's but thought the rest of you that do would want be informed)
Again, this will not restrict FN, but NON FN Residents!

As I have said, the way it is going, we should propose ROADS TO BE TORN UP instead of Rules for one group but
not the other.
The FN can practice their Traditional Ways on FOOT then!

Link:

https://apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/ahte/content/expansion-elephant-hill-atv-hunting-closure
Regional biologists acquired mule deer population demographic information during a 2019 aerial survey. Regional biologists classified over 2,000 deer. Buck: doe ratio within the Elephant Hill fire boundary were below the recommended Provincial target of 20 bucks per 100 does. Moose populations as determined through stratified random block surveys within adjacent units note a 15% population decline.The summer of 2017 represented one of the most extensive wildfire seasons in British Columbia’s history. The Elephant hill wildfire encompassed nearly 200,000 hectares. Fire suppression activities created access into regionally important mule deer and moose habitats that had previously been inaccessible by motor vehicles. Vulnerability of animals to harvest is expected to be high as they recolonize the burn prior to the establishment of adequate cover. Increasing hunting pressure within these MUs in consideration of increased access poses long-term wildlife management challenges such as maintaining population objectives.
To address the concerns related to increased access and consequent wildlife vulnerability post wildfire, the Province enacted an ATV for Hunting closure within the borders of the Elephant Hill fire and adjacent Management Units. Adjacent MUs, and areas outside the fire perimeter, were included in the closure to mitigate concerns related to shifting ATV based hunting pressure (the “waterbed effect”).
Indigenous communities in the vicinity of the Elephant Hill fire are concerned about increased ATV based hunting pressure within the Hat Creek watershed, an important location to exercise their Aboriginal Rights to hunt for sustenance and just outside the current ATV for Hunting prohibited area. There are concerns that the waterbed effect has resulted in increased ATV based hunting in the watershed and negatively impacting Indigenous Peoples access to wildlife for sustenance.

[bearvalley]

ATV bans are fine if they are applied equally to all.

[338win mag]

ATV bans are fine if they are applied equally to all.
Yes^^^^^^^^^^

[Pauly]

Yes^^^^^^^^^^
I have no issues with it. I’d like to see a lot more restricted access any how.

[Brew]

I have no problem with it if FN follow the same rules but we all know that won’t happen

[Ride Red]

Deactivate roads!!!

[SemperAurum]

I am not in favour of vehicle restrictions.
Most buffoons riding on an atv or driving one of those pope mobiles never see the game anyways. I have hunted that area for the past 15 years hard. Really hard.

Folks in motor vehicles are not a problem. And I will say it again, neither are indians. Coyotes and wolves and cougars sure are.

the area is now a burned out wasteland and a logging disaster

[Bugle M In]

I have no issues with it. I’d like to see a lot more restricted access any how.

I have no issue with it either, in theory, BUT.
It has to apply to everyone equally, that's rule #1.
A "Sign" or a "quate" in the Hunting Regs or on a sign, DOES NOT, stop poachers and those that no longer have to follow the same rules.
I would love to see a rule where quads "have to stay on the road" and no trail driving other then those that are allowed.

THE PART that IRKS me the most in this is the part where "FN want this"!! due to their "exercising their traditional right".

So, many a times folks have been asking for changes to "enhance and or protect wildlife" etc and nothing happens.
BUT, the FN cant find game, so they can now restrict everyone else, BUT NOT THEMSELVES.

Funny, go thru the new Regulation proposals, and guess what you see?
Proposals for Roads to be prohibited to drive on for hunting.
BUT, it's only a sign/rule and wont stop poaching or those who no longer have to adhere to the same rules.
And now we have to what???....adhere to their rules???
Tear up the roads, problem solved for all.
And if there is some form of industry running on that road, then just keep it open "for all".
Y

[Arctic Lake]

ATV bans are fine if they are applied equally to all.

Yes I agree ! Not sure of all the details but I know that ATV ‘s were not traditional modes of transportation for hunting by by native peoples
Arctic Lake

[Sirloin]

Was just about to post this ATV ban extension...


Here is a link to the detailed MAP: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/ahte-maps-2020/elephant_hill_atv_hunting_closure_boundary_amendme nt_final.pdf




https://i.imgur.com/dm8kmQo.jpg

[HappyJack]

ATV bans are fine if they are applied equally to all.

They should also apply to all motorized vehicles, what good are atv bans when trucks, jeeps, samari type vehicles can drive the same roads?

[SemperAurum]

F me!
The proposed area did not even burn ffs.

[Bugle M In]

They should also apply to all motorized vehicles, what good are atv bans when trucks, jeeps, samari type vehicles can drive the same roads?
ITs a way to get a "foot in the door"
They are now "testing the waters" to see how far they can push the envelope, and how many dumb whities will take the bait and implement the ban.
And yes, I blame the non FN for the issues, not the FN.

Anyways, if they get this, then somewhere down the road, you might see them banning all vehicles, because hey, they cant find game.

[russm]

Id take the fine if i was caught

[bearvalley]

They should also apply to all motorized vehicles, what good are atv bans when trucks, jeeps, samari type vehicles can drive the same roads?

Sure....close it to all motorized vehicles!
Leave a designated access trail or two and turn it back into an area that might be worth hunting once the cut blocks and burns heal up.

[SemperAurum]

The area is littered with long standing, existing resource roads. The fire guards from the 2017 fire have been reclaimed and deactivated already.

The existing main roads have been open since the day that they were built, long before the fire.

If you dont know anythng about the area and its roads, just ask. I can give you clarity and information.

I know a little thing or two about all these roads. I have built many 100's of kilometers of roads in the area with heavy equipment.

[scoutlt1]

We're talking about the Ashcroft Reserve fire right???

Ok....that's what I thought.....

[guest]

We're talking about the Ashcroft Reserve fire right???

Ok....that's what I thought.....

Exactly........THATS THE ONE.

[Pauly]

I have no issue with it either, in theory, BUT.
It has to apply to everyone equally, that's rule #1.
A "Sign" or a "quate" in the Hunting Regs or on a sign, DOES NOT, stop poachers and those that no longer have to follow the same rules.
I would love to see a rule where quads "have to stay on the road" and no trail driving other then those that are allowed.

THE PART that IRKS me the most in this is the part where "FN want this"!! due to their "exercising their traditional right".

So, many a times folks have been asking for changes to "enhance and or protect wildlife" etc and nothing happens.
BUT, the FN cant find game, so they can now restrict everyone else, BUT NOT THEMSELVES.

Funny, go thru the new Regulation proposals, and guess what you see?
Proposals for Roads to be prohibited to drive on for hunting.
BUT, it's only a sign/rule and wont stop poaching or those who no longer have to adhere to the same rules.
And now we have to what???....adhere to their rules???
Tear up the roads, problem solved for all.
And if there is some form of industry running on that road, then just keep it open "for all".
Y
I hear you. But to be honest I’ve never run into natives on quads even once. Always white guys I catch doing it. Pisses me off after I’ve spent hours hiking in and along comes a quad in a closed area. Truth be told I’ve had some not to flattering moments when it comes to natives. I feel bad.. do they frustrate me.. sure. But in the end I don’t want to hate any one any more than I want to be hated myself. The natives aren’t responsible for logging or mining or oil spills ect. We all contribute one way or another in our own way. Our houses are built of wood our hunting rigs burn gas on and on. I’m kinda growing tired of the blame game because nothing gets fixed when that’s taking place. I’m starting to think we’d be better of working together than to be divided. As it stands we all have our own interests at heart when really we need to come together for common interests. I would like to personally apologize to any and all natives I have offended by my words or actions the few that they are, I don’t know what I was thinking to be honest other than I jumped on board with the pack mentality and I was wrong. To much hate and anger going around when really I just want to hunt in peace and quiet. Think about this millions of Jews burnt in camps in ww2 hanging black people all Muslims are terrorists all East Indians are lazy on and on where does it stop because it’s all crazy bull shit. The world is full of just people good and bad. It has nothing to do with race .

[Bugle M In]

Yes, most of the Fire Break Roads have been chewed up, but not all, I also know the area.
Yes, it's the Ashcroft Reserve Fire.

IF they think the area is just hard to hunt because of ATV's, well, they are just bs'ing you.
Obviously they have fooled folks yet again on the "proposal committee".
Lots of areas are "harder to hunt" then the "traditionally were".
ATV's can ruin honey holes for sure, but they are far from the real issue of why there is way less game.
But hey, lets keep playing the game of how far we can bury the Resident Hunter before they have no choice but to give up.

I wont...I just wont be buying a tag at that point!

[Bugle M In]

Pauly,

Its not the individual I hate in regards to the FN.
It's the "Policies" and "Inequality" that has been created in regards to the FN.
Just so you know where I am coming from and everyone else too!

[HarryToolips]

Well, it never stops does it.
They cause the fire, and then "oh poor us" we can no longer sustain our hunting!
Well, welcome to the frickin club!!!

Anyways, they want MORE ATV RESTRICTION to include Hat Cr Area:
(fyi, I don't own atv's but thought the rest of you that do would want be informed)
Again, this will not restrict FN, but NON FN Residents!

As I have said, the way it is going, we should propose ROADS TO BE TORN UP instead of Rules for one group but
not the other.
The FN can practice their Traditional Ways on FOOT then!

Link:

https://apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/ahte/content/expansion-elephant-hill-atv-hunting-closure
Regional biologists acquired mule deer population demographic information during a 2019 aerial survey. Regional biologists classified over 2,000 deer. Buck: doe ratio within the Elephant Hill fire boundary were below the recommended Provincial target of 20 bucks per 100 does. Moose populations as determined through stratified random block surveys within adjacent units note a 15% population decline.The summer of 2017 represented one of the most extensive wildfire seasons in British Columbia’s history. The Elephant hill wildfire encompassed nearly 200,000 hectares. Fire suppression activities created access into regionally important mule deer and moose habitats that had previously been inaccessible by motor vehicles. Vulnerability of animals to harvest is expected to be high as they recolonize the burn prior to the establishment of adequate cover. Increasing hunting pressure within these MUs in consideration of increased access poses long-term wildlife management challenges such as maintaining population objectives.
To address the concerns related to increased access and consequent wildlife vulnerability post wildfire, the Province enacted an ATV for Hunting closure within the borders of the Elephant Hill fire and adjacent Management Units. Adjacent MUs, and areas outside the fire perimeter, were included in the closure to mitigate concerns related to shifting ATV based hunting pressure (the “waterbed effect”).
Indigenous communities in the vicinity of the Elephant Hill fire are concerned about increased ATV based hunting pressure within the Hat Creek watershed, an important location to exercise their Aboriginal Rights to hunt for sustenance and just outside the current ATV for Hunting prohibited area. There are concerns that the waterbed effect has resulted in increased ATV based hunting in the watershed and negatively impacting Indigenous Peoples access to wildlife for sustenance.
Imhear ya it should be one law for all....yes tearing up the roads so they can't use em either would be big step in the right direction...

[SemperAurum]

I have never seen natives hunting deer in the area Elephant Hill fire area ever. Not even in the off season when I am up there on snomobile hnting predators or spring when I am hunting bears.Must have missed them.

Only time I seen natives was during the mushroom picking bullshit they pulled after the fire. I see a truckful once in a while who are contractors that thin out the regen trees.

[Bugle M In]

Well, I have!
Even spoke with the chief and the band police chief.
They are up there.

But yes, the amount they are up there makes you ask..... hmmmmmmm, why do you want it closed if you rarely go up there!!????
Again, there is more to it then they say.....always!

[SemperAurum]

as far as road deactivation goes, mother nature will take care of it.
The ground up there no longer absorbs or holds back water. Many of the old existing roads are becoming rocky mudpits. Its getting tough on vehcles.

If we ever get a high snow year the washouts will be epic!

[Muliechaser]

I have never seen natives hunting deer in the area Elephant Hill fire area ever. Not even in the off season when I am up there on snomobile hnting predators or spring when I am hunting bears.Must have missed them.

Only time I seen natives was during the mushroom picking bullshit they pulled after the fire. I see a truckful once in a while who are contractors that thin out the regen trees.

Thats becuase you are going between sunrise and sunset .. go from sunset to sunrise . Youll see them then .

[SemperAurum]

Quite frankly, I never see indians out hunting very often in 5 or 3. Its mostly people from region 2 and locals.

[Bugle M In]

Quite frankly, I never see indians out hunting very often in 5 or 3. Its mostly people from region 2 and locals.

You do realize they can hunt at other times to.

[Bugle M In]

Couple more tidbits of info about this Elephant Hill and ATV's etc.
For one thing, there have changes in the past few years now where ATV/ORV have to be licensed.
Which, before then made reporting them in vehicle closed areas near impossible, and I encountered that a lot in the EK.
Ever since the plates had to be on them, I have rarely come across an issue.
Except, this past season and a side by side, around Cache Creek, sitting in a honey hole (so they knew the area), waiting for 1st light, until
I showed up, and then they scrambled by my hunting partner caught them!
They acted as if they had no idea....bs...but worse, no plates....hmmmm.
So, if we limited where they can go, which is to keep them "on the road", they aren't much different then a truck, but I suppose the "urge" to go off road is always there.

Also, this ATV area closure that is being proposed...well, it isn't nothing new from the FN perspective.
I was camping at Fountain Lake the year before this fire.
The main road is between Lytton and Lillooet, and comes out between Lillooet and Cache Creek.
I used to hike up behind the lake as a kid, and found numerous shed, so I have known for a long time it is a wintering area for deer.
Anyways, while there, I spoke to an FN, a really nice guy and enjoyed talking with him.
However, some of what he said was concerning to me.

I had told him this must be a wintering area, and he said absolutely.
And I said its been years since I took that road right by the lake up into the mtn's in behind and not sure where it leads anymore.
He immediately said "we don't allow hunters up in there".
"If we find out, we go in a kick them out".

I cant say how much of what he was telling me is true, but it was 1st hand convo between him and me.

So, looking at the map, it includes this area and is obviously something on the Bands mind way before the Fire "even happened".!!
So, to me, they are just dressing it up as the Fire has caused this issue, but that isn't the case.
Again, there is more to it then is really being said.

[Darksith]

I don't see where first nations are excluded from the ATV ban. My problem with this is there are 2 MU's that were originally included in the ban that basically had no fire. Also a tracker or samurai if outfitted can go anywhere an ATV can go in a burn...The smarter thing to do would be to restrict all motor vehicles to named roads. No riding down skid trails, no riding down fire breaks built during the fire.

I hunt in 3-29 a lot. We get a moose draw, or have a deer camp in that area, all we would do is use the ATV's to get from camp to our destination, saving us big $ in fuel, not beating up our trucks on the ever worsenting FSRs and putting out fewer emissions in to the atmosphere. The ATV ban is a joke, it should be restricted to 10m from any named FSR road and be for all motorized vehicles.

[SemperAurum]

Thats becuase you are going between sunrise and sunset .. go from sunset to sunrise . Youll see them then .

Over the years, the only people that I have seen up there hunting at night with lights have been the ones camped out or the ones that stay at motels in Clinton or Cache Creek. (It easy for a nosey nelley like me to lcate the same vehicles at local motels) They were all from region 2 and all were white. Often drunk.
One evening I tried to engage RAPP and the CO service but they would not attend. I was actually asked by a CO to go back and get license plates!!!! Like f#*k I said to him. The drunk idiots actually had a couch to sit upon in the back of a pickup.

I can tell you that lots of white hunters hunt at night with lights. One only has to sit at certain vantage points at night and look across at the led light action.

I do not hunt close to the IR's so I cant say for certain if the natives pitlamp.

[Bugle M In]

Where I go I cant say I see much night time hunting, not by FN.
Way worse around Peter Hope Lake in Merritt by the FN and why I left that area.

As for the ATV issue.
I understand that for many, the ATV was just a cheaper mode of transport, and cheaper on repairs then a truck etc, and why many own and want to use them.
And as long as they stay on the roads, I have no issues as it is no different then a truck.

IF, there are roads that we don't want to have traveled, and trucks cant due to deep trenches but quads still can, then I recommend tearing it
up, as a sign or restriction is useless.

And to the ATV users, you have to understand there have been some of you who have used these rigs to get into areas you would have
never of hiked into, off any previous road or trail.
And that is why in part we see ATV/ORV in the crosshairs.

Until we have roads torn apart, I would expect to see more restricted areas.
I just hate it being "dressed up" as something else in the proposal.
If that is the "real reason", then just state it.

[Muliechaser]

Couple more tidbits of info about this Elephant Hill and ATV's etc.
For one thing, there have changes in the past few years now where ATV/ORV have to be licensed.
Which, before then made reporting them in vehicle closed areas near impossible, and I encountered that a lot in the EK.
Ever since the plates had to be on them, I have rarely come across an issue.
Except, this past season and a side by side, around Cache Creek, sitting in a honey hole (so they knew the area), waiting for 1st light, until
I showed up, and then they scrambled by my hunting partner caught them!
They acted as if they had no idea....bs...but worse, no plates....hmmmm.
So, if we limited where they can go, which is to keep them "on the road", they aren't much different then a truck, but I suppose the "urge" to go off road is always there.

Also, this ATV area closure that is being proposed...well, it isn't nothing new from the FN perspective.
I was camping at Fountain Lake the year before this fire.
The main road is between Lytton and Lillooet, and comes out between Lillooet and Cache Creek.
I used to hike up behind the lake as a kid, and found numerous shed, so I have known for a long time it is a wintering area for deer.
Anyways, while there, I spoke to an FN, a really nice guy and enjoyed talking with him.
However, some of what he said was concerning to me.

I had told him this must be a wintering area, and he said absolutely.
And I said its been years since I took that road right by the lake up into the mtn's in behind and not sure where it leads anymore.
He immediately said "we don't allow hunters up in there".
"If we find out, we go in a kick them out".

I cant say how much of what he was telling me is true, but it was 1st hand convo between him and me.

So, looking at the map, it includes this area and is obviously something on the Bands mind way before the Fire "even happened".!!
So, to me, they are just dressing it up as the Fire has caused this issue, but that isn't the case.
Again, there is more to it then is really being said.

Dont allow hunters on crown land ? Ya yood ****ing luck kicking me out of there

[HappyJack]

Sure....close it to all motorized vehicles!
Leave a designated access trail or two and turn it back into an area that might be worth hunting once the cut blocks and burns heal up.

Just to keep things on an even keel, perhaps add horses, camels, bikes...skateboards...everything but good old shanks mare. Either walk in or hunt elsewhere?

[Danny_29]

Just to keep things on an even keel, perhaps add horses, camels, bikes...skateboards...everything but good old shanks mare. Either walk in or hunt elsewhere?

Camels have been illegal for a long time now?

[happyhunter]

I hear you. But to be honest I’ve never run into natives on quads even once. Always white guys I catch doing it. Pisses me off after I’ve spent hours hiking in and along comes a quad in a closed area. Truth be told I’ve had some not to flattering moments when it comes to natives. I feel bad.. do they frustrate me.. sure. But in the end I don’t want to hate any one any more than I want to be hated myself. The natives aren’t responsible for logging or mining or oil spills ect. We all contribute one way or another in our own way. Our houses are built of wood our hunting rigs burn gas on and on. I’m kinda growing tired of the blame game because nothing gets fixed when that’s taking place. I’m starting to think we’d be better of working together than to be divided. As it stands we all have our own interests at heart when really we need to come together for common interests. I would like to personally apologize to any and all natives I have offended by my words or actions the few that they are, I don’t know what I was thinking to be honest other than I jumped on board with the pack mentality and I was wrong. To much hate and anger going around when really I just want to hunt in peace and quiet. Think about this millions of Jews burnt in camps in ww2 hanging black people all Muslims are terrorists all East Indians are lazy on and on where does it stop because it’s all crazy bull shit. The world is full of just people good and bad. It has nothing to do with race .
I hear you and can agree with much of what you say. However, fact is some FN do want to keep others out of areas. What will that do other then drive a wedge between the 2 groups, I dont know. You want to come together for the greater good? So do I! But we have nothing to offer them. They have a constitutional right to hunt/fish. We do not. Government will enforce FN wishes in name of reconciliation which will include protecting their hunt/Fish opportunities. Will gov do the same for the resident hunter? Can you give me an example where FN were actively trying to come together with the resident hunter? Your third to last sentence, utter rubbish, nobody wants that. Hunters here just want their heritage protected, that’s it.

[browningboy]

Give First Nations all the rights, worked hard for them, in fact give them your guns and beer too as they would appreciate it! After that give them your cheque’s.... fuq sakes this is rediculous, say get a job and make your own way instead of asking for hand outs

[xlcc]

I don't have an ATV and don't have a problem if others want to use them,but if rules are made then those rules need to apply to all ATV users.Indians as well as all others.The government that makes these regulations needs to charge any violators and fine them,not let them go because they are native.
Our Canadian Charter of Rights says we are are to be treated equally no matter race or religion.

[Bugle M In]

The problem with the ATV ban is, it rule might apply to everyone, but as of late, the FN do no longer recognize much of our laws.
So, they might also be included in the ban, but will they follow it like everyone else.
And if not, are they going to be charged, are the CO's going to enforce it if they know it is an FN member.

CO's didn't enforce pit lamping by FN around Merritt when called, long before pit lamping was legal for one band.

The lack of enforcement and FN having to comply is the big issue with this rule I have.
Some ATV users prove time and time again, that they cant stick to the rules, so I get the ban.
A few ruining it for many (what's new??).

But who enforces who and who follows what rules is my issue with this proposal!

[SemperAurum]

I have discovered that some of the best hunting to be had is along highways and major roads. This is especially so for late season Stone’s sheep if you are willing to hunt in the snow and cold. ATV is strictly a snow plow now.

[hawk-i]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLm3HMG8IhM

[Pauly]

I ran into a c.o out hunting moose at Todd and Pratt area this year he says the natives do their hunting late August to early September the idea is it reduces conflict between both groups. (Us- them) then they pick it up again in January when we’re not out there. I do see them out and about in the reg season but not all that much. I worked with a few native guys over the years really great guys good hunters only took what they needed. Even so they told me how bad some band member’s are for abusing their privilege. They try to discipline through their band but to little effect. I’ve never seen a native hunting on a quad yet.

[Sirloin]

The problem with the ATV ban is, it rule might apply to everyone, but as of late, the FN do no longer recognize much of our laws.
So, they might also be included in the ban, but will they follow it like everyone else.
And if not, are they going to be charged, are the CO's going to enforce it if they know it is an FN member.

CO's didn't enforce pit lamping by FN around Merritt when called, long before pit lamping was legal for one band.

The lack of enforcement and FN having to comply is the big issue with this rule I have.
Some ATV users prove time and time again, that they cant stick to the rules, so I get the ban.
A few ruining it for many (what's new??).

But who enforces who and who follows what rules is my issue with this proposal!

FN are EXEMPT from the ATV ban, even from hunting the area on ATV....

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/hunters-barred-from-using-atvs-in-wildfire-affected-areas-1.3613687

The province says the restriction does not apply to First Nations exercising Aboriginal rights to hunt.

[Sirloin]

:idea::idea:I would strongly suggest, whoever is up to it, a formal freedom of information request about the elephant hill ATV ban extension area. Request any and all correspondence between the local bands requesting the ban and the ministry/gov and all related documents on how this regulation proposal was created.:idea::idea:


https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/governments/about-the-bc-government/open-government/open-information/freedom-of-information/submit-a-personal-freedom-of-information-request


Include a link to the regulation change
https://apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/ahte/content/expansion-elephant-hill-atv-hunting-closure

[scoutlt1]

:idea::idea:I would strongly suggest, whoever is up to it, a formal freedom of information request about the elephant hill ATV ban extension area. Request any and all correspondence between the local bands requesting the ban and the ministry/gov and all related documents on how this regulation proposal was created.:idea::idea:


https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/governments/about-the-bc-government/open-government/open-information/freedom-of-information/submit-a-personal-freedom-of-information-request


Include a link to the regulation change
https://apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/ahte/content/expansion-elephant-hill-atv-hunting-closure

I agree, but see below. Very hard to get anything relating to FN with an FOI request. Same applies to any UN "topics" as well...


Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act.



Disclosure harmful to intergovernmental relations or negotiations


16 (1)
The head of a public body may refuse to disclose information to an applicant if the disclosure could reasonably be expected to

(a)
harm the conduct by the government of British Columbia of relations between that government and any of the following or their agencies:

(i)
the government of Canada or a province of Canada;

(ii)
the council of a municipality or the board of a regional district;

(iii)
an aboriginal government;

(iv)
the government of a foreign state;

(v)
an international organization of states,

[RugDoctor]

When will everyone get it that FN are special in every aspect? They’re exempt from many laws, exempt from many punishments, exempt from many responsibilities, and in general, more entitled than everyone else in every respect. If you aren’t FN, you’re a second class citizen. Period. If you aren’t FN, lean on your “white privilege” because you have fewer rights under the law.

accept it....FN are more important and have more rights than others. To think otherwise is to put your head in the sand and accept that you will continually have your rights eroded. If you don’t realize that FN have more rights, you’re stupid.

[REMINGTON JIM]

When will everyone get it that FN are special in every aspect? They’re exempt from many laws, exempt from many punishments, exempt from many responsibilities, and in general, more entitled than everyone else in every respect. If you aren’t FN, you’re a second class citizen. Period. If you aren’t FN, lean on your “white privilege” because you have fewer rights under the law.



accept it....FN are more important and have more rights than others. To think otherwise is to put your head in the sand and accept that you will continually have your rights eroded. If you don’t realize that FN have more rights, you’re stupid.


Its so SAD But you are Right ! :-( RJ

[Sirloin]

I agree, but see below. Very hard to get anything relating to FN with an FOI request. Same applies to any UN "topics" as well...

Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act.
Disclosure harmful to intergovernmental relations or negotiations
The head of a public body may refuse to disclose information to an applicant if the disclosure could reasonably be expected to
harm the conduct by the government of British Columbia of relations between that government and any of the following or their agencies
the government of Canada or a province of Canada;
the council of a municipality or the board of a regional district;
an aboriginal government;

the government of a foreign state;
an international organization of states,

I've seen tons of FOI's including FN correspondence with the gov. It's very possible, although they do blank out some sections, they are full of useful stuff.

Here's one talking about possibly giving away 12,463 Hectares of land around PINK MOUNTAIN? HERE (http://docs.openinfo.gov.bc.ca/Response_Package_FNR-2019-90333.pdf)

https://i.imgur.com/GJGV850.png

Here's one involving the Mckenna and the caribou recovery plans...HERE (http://docs.openinfo.gov.bc.ca/Response_Package_FNR-2018-87845.pdf)

Some more random ones:

"The agreement between the Osoyoos Indian Band and the BC government to manage Haynes Point and Okanagan Falls Provincial Parks" HERE (http://docs.openinfo.gov.bc.ca/Response_Package_MOE-2018-82377.pdf)

"Any and all documents pertaining to the Qayqayt First Nation aka New Westminster Indian Band (First Nation Band #566) land claim/claims on land/lands located in New Westminster and Surrey municipalities."
HERE
(http://docs.openinfo.gov.bc.ca/Response_Package_ARR-2015-52601.pdf)
Another "request for: Any correspondence, including meetings and attachments, between FLNRO ministry staff, Minister Steve Thomson, Minister Pat Bell, MLA John Rustad, Chief Al Gerow, the Burns Lake Indian Band, Six Nations, and two named individuals, pertaining to Hampton Affiliates and the Burns Lake Mill rebuild."

"Regarding the $6,100,000 no bid contract dated March 31, 2017, under contract number P17TBA176 with the Musqueam Indian Band: The application, evaluation, assessment, recommendation and approval of the contract; The documentation justifying the no bid award; The contract itself."

Hmmm wonder why the forestry sector is being hit so hard lately? This is 2014/15...just getting started.
https://i.imgur.com/eqdm9Ro.jpg

[scoutlt1]

Good to see that Sirloin and thanks!

[Bugle M In]

I am just going to stick to the conversation with an FN member the year before the fire, and that they did not want ATV's in the area I was
having a discussion with him about.
1 year exactly before the fire, and I am not surprised they found a way to hide it inside the ATV that came about after the fire.
And I agree, why the banned MU without the fire.
Probably more to that going on as well before the fire.

[Arctic Lake]

Okay so if I’m reading right FN,s will still be able to use an ATV for hunting that area ?
Arctic Lake

[Bugle M In]

Okay so if I’m reading right FN,s will still be able to use an ATV for hunting that area ?
Arctic Lake

I think like Sirloin that they are exempt.
Surprised????

Must be nice when you can "make a regulation proposal" for everyone in BC but be exempt from the proposal you are making!!!

[whitlers]

Such BS. One law for all or non at all.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Okay so if I’m reading right FN,s will still be able to use an ATV for hunting that area ?
Arctic Lake

THAT is Correct Sir ! only Indians allowed to use ATV-QUADS in areas closed to Whiteys ! :-? RJ

[SemperAurum]

THAT is Correct Sir ! only Indians allowed to use ATV-QUADS in areas closed to Whiteys ! :-? RJ

Signs, signs, everywhere a sign.... come on whitey....defy do not comply......riseup take a stand......this land is your land......plug up the court system with frivilous atv crimes........whitey only atv kangaroo court........no sweat lodge peace pipe drum beating for you

[Muliechaser]

Signs, signs, everywhere a sign.... come on whitey....defy do not comply......riseup take a stand......this land is your land......plug up the court system with frivilous atv crimes........whitey only atv kangaroo court........no sweat lodge peace pipe drum beating for you

Im convinced you are jelvis back from the dead. Lmao

[happyhunter]

Im convinced you are jelvis back from the dead. Lmao
Jelvis switched meds. This may be the least likeable version yet...

[338win mag]

I think like Sirloin that they are exempt.
Surprised????

Must be nice when you can "make a regulation proposal" for everyone in BC but be exempt from the proposal you are making!!!
lol.........true.

[SemperAurum]

I will go to Cache Creek and ask the chief and get back to all y'all.........Up Hat Creek without a paddle tire

[REMINGTON JIM]

I will go to Cache Creek and ask the chief and get back to all y'all.........Up Hat Creek without a paddle tire

at a BOY Jelly :smile: RJ

[Bugle M In]

*****NEWSFLASH******
It has just been announced that the title "Status Card" has been revoked.
Enlight of recent events regarding land claims, treaties and political correctness, changes to the card were necessary to better reflect the Cards ability while alleviating any ethnic overtures residing from the past until
recent historic events, thru the assistance of the United Nation (UNDRIP), The Federal Liberal Party of Canada,
and most importantly, the NDP Provincial Government, a better terminology has been presented and accepted.
It will now be called the "EXEMPTION CARD" from this day forward.
If you qualify for this card, you are:
EXEMPT from all Laws.
EXEMPT from all Prosecution.
And of course,
EXEMPT from all taxes.

Thus, the new terminology will be the "EXEMPTION CARD"!
*Any failure to do so may end in prosecution due to slander.

Sorry folks, just felt the need to say that!

In all Honesty, lets not blame the FN, it's not their fault. (I sincerely mean that!)

Really, we should thank all the Universities here in Canada with Law Departments!
WE should thank them for the Lawyers and Judges they have given to this Country and Province for making our place
so much better for generations to come.
On top of that, we can also acknowledge that if any of these students who did thru some miraculous reason, pass their
BAR Exams, yet failed at becoming Judges or at the very least, successful Lawyers, that you have put these folks at the top of the "short list", to become Our Politicians!!
Thank You!

[338win mag]

ATV bans are fine if they are applied equally to all.
Udder bullshit, and come full circle.....right back here again^^^^^

[Browning 3\d]

If they ban all 4 wheelers every where 30 to 40 % of hunters would quit hunting because they wood have too walk.

[SemperAurum]

It is really easy to walk far and hunt hard. Really easy. No problemo. The difficulty arises when one has to legally pack out all edible portions of the dead critter for 10 km.

BUT I CAN GUARANTEE YOU THAT THE HAT RACK ALWAYS GETS PACKED OUT, PICTURES POSTED ON THE IDIOT BOARDS AND COVETED BY THE MASSES

[bearvalley]

If they ban all 4 wheelers every where 30 to 40 % of hunters would quit hunting because they wood have too walk.

Is that such a bad thing?
Can you really call it hunting when you see 3 or 4 ATV’s cruising bumper to bumper down a logging road, rifles hanging on each machine and the drivers decked out like camo covered Ninjas.
I almost forgot to mention the helmet mounted Go Pros.......now that’s hunting.

[SemperAurum]

Is that such a bad thing?
Can you really call it hunting when you see 3 or 4 ATV’s cruising bumper to bumper down a logging road, rifles hanging on each machine and the drivers decked out like camo covered Ninjas.
I almost forgot to mention the helmet mounted Go Pros.......now that’s hunting.


Shhhhhhhh. Dont give them any ideas about walking a teeny bit and plunking down on a stump and waiting and waiting and waiting..............Roll on big 4 wheeler roll on........ eagle eye in a silent land will result in a deer in your hand.




Still Waiting for Godot

[happyhunter]

Shhhhhhhh. Dont give them any ideas about walking a teeny bit and plunking down on a stump and waiting and waiting and waiting..............Roll on big 4 wheeler roll on........ eagle eye in a silent land will result in a deer in your hand.

Anymore advise? Might be something good in F&S October 1995

[SemperAurum]

Happy old man in a different land.........its not your field anymore........its my stream.........now get out there pack out that big ole hatrack........make tracks

[tipper]

Ashcroft Reserve Fire. Guess i'm a racist now for bringing this up again. We are doomed.