B.C First Nations Ban Caribou Hunting As Populations Dwindle

[warnniklz]

https://www.mycariboonow.com/57512/b-c-first-nations-ban-caribou-hunting-as-population-dwindles/ (https://www.mycariboonow.com/57512/b-c-first-nations-ban-caribou-hunting-as-population-dwindles/)

The Tsilhqot’in Nation and Ulkatcho First Nation are implementing an emergency hunting ban on Mountain Caribou in their traditional territories.
Applying to everyone including First Nations people, the immediate ban to protect the few remaining caribou in the Itcha-Ilgachuz, Rainbows and Charlotte Alplands herds was announced Friday in a joint news release.
Tribal chair of the Tislhqot’in National Government, Chief Joe Alphonse says it is crucial that the caribou not be hunted and that activities that threaten the caribou’s habitat cease.
“We were notified too late in the BC management process to ensure the caribou were being managed properly with conservation values and not just money values taking priority,” Alphonse said.
“This is our land and our people that must now make the sacrifice to ensure that caribou persist in the region after the government, for too long, ignored the proper management decisions needed to take place for caribou.”
Alphonse adds there needs to be a continued push to ensure that predation is also being properly managed so that the caribou are given a chance to recover.
Ulkatcho First Nation Chief Lynda Price said the Ulkatcho First Nation (UFN) were opposed to the Province’s proposal and caribou management plans to transfer some of the Itcha-Ilgachuz caribou herd to the Purcell Mountains in Southeastern B.C. between 2000-2005.
“The reason we did not agree with the transfer was because they had not dealt with the issues that created the decline in the caribou herd there,” she said.
“UFN were not invited to the planning table to address the decline of the caribou herd in the Itcha-Ilgachuz. UFN informed the Technical Working group last week that we are not satisfied with their consultation process with UFN.”
The Itcha-Ilgachuz herd is located in UFN territory and Price said they believe that the only productive way of managing the herd and other wildlife in their territory is to implement the UNDRIP legislation and immediately address legislation, policy and regulation pertaining to wildlife management and conservation with our full participation.
“UFN supports the ban on caribou hunting,” Price said.
The Itcha-Ilgachuz herd, which are by far the largest of the three herds, have declined by 86% and continue to decline with approximately 385 caribou as of June 2019. If this decline continues the caribou in the Chilcotin could disappear within the next 7 years.
“Conservation of species is very important to us and as stewards of the land we are greatly concerned about the decline of our caribou herds and we are willing to do what it takes to ensure they survive. This includes taking the extra step to protect them by no longer allowing the harvest of caribou for sustenance as our people have done for thousands of years,” said Tsideldel Chief Otis Guichon.
“Not long ago caribou herds roamed throughout the Chilcotin but today are limited to a few hundred remaining animals in one area within the West Chilcotin.”
The Tsilhqot’in and Ulkatcho First Nations say the hunting ban will remain in place until the caribou have recovered to the point sustenance hunting can once again sustainably occur to ensure the conservation and persistence of the caribou in the region.
Both nations will also be working on more effective ways to protect the remaining caribou including better habitat management, disturbance and predation factors through the herd planning process.

[upperleftcoaster]

so basically, conservation isn't an issue until a certain group says it is...and that group isn't the biologists.

and of course it's the government's fault for not managing it correctly??? the bands want full autonomy but BC government is still the scapegoat when it doesn't work out.:roll:

[Jagermeister]

Get used to this.
https://i.postimg.cc/ZY10pPMf/pexels-photo-190398.jpg

[rocksteady]

F' me!!!

Another issue that only matters if you are not caucasian

[vladthepes]

nice! But it is not "their land". The land belong to the victor! Now, it belong to Europeans. In the furture, it may belong to Chinese, East Indians or whomever is strong enough to take it from us!

[SemperAurum]

Does anybody know if the rich dude with the helicopter is taking his buddies in there to hunt caribou?
I recall hearing very juicy rumours of this about 10 years ago.

[dougan]

I don’t recognize native laws.

[REMINGTON JIM]

QUOTE : “Not long ago caribou herds roamed throughout the Chilcotin but today are limited to a few hundred remaining animals in one area within the West Chilcotin.”

And we wonder what happened to MOST of them ? :frown: Subsistence Hunts ? :roll: RJ

[HarryToolips]

I'm glad that they're implementing this ban on their own ppl as well....and it's good that they recognize that pred control needs to happen otherwise their efforts are futile...I hope they start shooting wolves by helicopter and while they're at keep going in the rest of the province too lol...

[Jagermeister]

I don’t recognize native laws.Neither do their young "warriors".

🎵 A hunting we will go, 🎵 A hunting we will go, we'll do as we please,🎵so **** you Joe, a hunting we will go! 🎵

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/images/smilies/sHa_shakeshout.gifhttp://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/images/smilies/sHa_shakeshout.gif

[303savage]

Applying to everyone including First Nations people, Applying to everyone including First Nations people, FNs can talk the talk but will they walk the walk. SOME OF THEM are not keeper of the land.

[gcreek]

QUOTE : “Not long ago caribou herds roamed throughout the Chilcotin but today are limited to a few hundred remaining animals in one area within the West Chilcotin.”

And we wonder what happened to MOST of them ? :frown: Subsistence Hunts ? :roll: RJ

No Jim, the wolves killed most of them off. Very few caribou get anywhere near the roads so not as many are shot as you might think.

The sad part media forgot to mention other than through our neighbor's words was that MOE had already shut of any hunting of caribou. This is nothing but a sad attempt for the Indians to get in front of the parade so they can ask for more of our dollars to pi$$ away.

[REMINGTON JIM]

gcreek - are you saying Indians are only road hunters :shock: :razz: RJ

[Jagermeister]

gcreek - are you saying Indians are only road hunters :shock: :razz: RJThat is what he is saying but he forgot to mention the "artificial daylight" season.

[180grainer]

This is why there must be mandatory reporting of harvested animals by the FN. Reporting what they kill doesn't affect their ability to exercise their traditional and bla bla bla. Start forcing these people to report their harvest.

[Piperdown]

Chief Joe can't even count to 10, how the hell is he supposed to keep track of the slaughter!!

[bearvalley]

I'm glad that they're implementing this ban on their own ppl as well....and it's good that they recognize that pred control needs to happen otherwise their efforts are futile...I hope they start shooting wolves by helicopter and while they're at keep going in the rest of the province too lol...
gcreek can fill you in more but I believe the UFN had a private biologist working for them on this issue along with a trapper in efforts to slow up the wolves.
Trapping wolves on a large landscape to recover wildlife is like pissing in the wind.
There is a proposed helicopter shoot in the works for this winter.
You guys better hope the Feds “partners” Raincoast don’t put the brakes on it.

[Ride Red]

If FN say go, then there shouldn’t be any push back, right?

[Weatherby Fan]

This is just the tip of the iceberg, just like the Land Claims encompass 150% of the Province so to will the control on the hunting.

[358mag]

gcreek can fill you in more but I believe the UFN had a private biologist working for them on this issue along with a trapper in efforts to slow up the wolves.
Trapping wolves on a large landscape to recover wildlife is like pissing in the wind.
There is a proposed helicopter shoot in the works for this winter.
You guys better hope the Feds “partners” Raincoast don’t put the brakes on it.
^^^^^x2^^^^^^^^^^^

[Ocean jade]

[QUOTE=dougan;2138288]I don’t recognize native laws.[/QUOTE

me neither

[Bugle M In]

Well, if the FN claim that wolves need to be culled by Heli, that is going to get interesting for sure.
Because that flies right in the face of George Heyman and his Anti compadres!!

So, this could be really interesting and for once, there might actually be a benefit folks!!
Heyman either has to go the way of the FN or the other way with Anti's.
Either way, he gets the short end of the stick.....F'n Finally!!!!!

And if the cull goes thru, then other areas in BC have the right to be managed the same way!!( I hope???)
If not, Heyman looks like he has abandoned FN concerns, and we know that isn't a politically good move either.

As for the FN having the clout to push for closures and culls, I understand HBC members push back, and yes, its a damn shame that one
group out ways anybody else.
Just form the replies to this thread, it demonstrates the furthering of the divide.
Which is going to come down the pipe as a different type of Reconciliation then what the FN are expecting/have accepted.

And yes, most FN hunt by the road, and that why we need more roads "TORN UP", not just a "sign", as they don't acknowledge sign closures.
A road not able to be traveled, is a road the FN cant hunt on 24/7 3651/4!!!
Then it is "FAIRPLAY" for everyone who wants to work for it a bit.

Anyways, not all of this is bad folks!!!!!
This puts the biggest prick of the NDP on the HOTSEAT......George Heyman!

[SemperAurum]

I am not sure if you folks realize where this herd lives. It is a very long walk from Anihm Lake. Locals that I know used horses to hunt them. I also heard rumours that others have used a helicopter. Not sure about snowmobile use.

Perhaps srupp knows about this herd. I hope he chimes in here.

I wonder if the caribou at Quesnel Lake are all dead and gone. Last time I was in there grizzly hunting we only saw a handfull. It was a long, nasty walk to get to where they were.

I personally have no interest in ever hunting a caribou. To me, they are one thing and one thing only: predator food. My native friend from Anihim has never cared to eat them. He gets his food at WalMart.

[hawk-i]

Curious as to how this is going to play out.

[Piperdown]

I am not sure if you folks realize where this herd lives. It is a very long walk from Anihm Lake. Locals that I know used horses to hunt them. I also heard rumours that others have used a helicopter. Not sure about snowmobile use.

Perhaps srupp knows about this herd. I hope he chimes in here.

I personally have no interest in ever hunting a caribou. To me, they are one thing and one thing only: predator food. My native friend from Anihim has never cared to eat them. He gets his food at WalMart.

The stopped allowing snow mobiles in that area years ago as it was proven that the wolves were running on the sled trails to get to the wintering herd and do major damage to the caribou.

[Bigdoggdon]

I don't know why the BC Government can't talk to the feds about getting the military involved and call out some helicopter gunships for a "training exercise". Probably knock the wolf population down a peg raining down 20mm shells from a gattling cannon.

As for the FN. It's all about the "spin", when they say "most" of their members comply with the hunting ban/closure what they really mean is only a few members do all the hunting for the whole band.

[REMINGTON JIM]

As for the FN. It's all about the "spin", when they say "most" of their members comply with the hunting ban/closure what they really mean is only a few members do all the hunting for the whole band.

Yup Day and Night ! :-( But only for Subsistence you Know ! :roll: So its All Ok ! No ones Starving ! :frown: RJ

[SemperAurum]

I live in an area with many indian reserves and native people. I have never, ever had any native hunter or native person ever cause any troubles or concerns. They have all been polite, helpful, and a pleasure to have met. Many have shown me their best spots and offered any help that I required.

It gets really saddenng to hear all of "you people" disparage Indians like you do on this forum. Some of you are outright racist douchebags.

The government and many, many, many special interest groups are using the natives as a tool to drive a wedge in our society and to assist with their agendas. This is the root of the FN issues that we face today in this pathetic country.

[Downtown]

Until proven otherwise, I take Chief Joe Alphonse words at face value and say what he is doing is the right thing. Obviously he has the Balls so many of our elected Politicians are lacking when it comes to stand up against the DoGodders and use common Sense.

Cheers

[gcreek]

gcreek can fill you in more but I believe the UFN had a private biologist working for them on this issue along with a trapper in efforts to slow up the wolves.
Trapping wolves on a large landscape to recover wildlife is like pissing in the wind.
There is a proposed helicopter shoot in the works for this winter.
You guys better hope the Feds “partners” Raincoast don’t put the brakes on it.

There was never a trap set, too much study money would have disappeared if their subjects started dying.

[gcreek]

gcreek - are you saying Indians are only road hunters :shock: :razz: RJ

That and snow machines and quads. Most of the prefer moose to caribou.

[gcreek]

Until proven otherwise, I take Chief Joe Alphonse words at face value and say what he is doing is the right thing. Obviously he has the Balls so many of our elected Politicians are lacking when it comes to stand up against the DoGodders and use common Sense.

Cheers

If you had read the whole article you would know that the Province put a ban on hunting the Itcha herd last winter. Joe and Co are now trying to get in front of the parade in expectation of a few dollars going their way. My opinion.

[Downtown]

If you had read the whole article you would know that the Province put a ban on hunting the Itcha herd last winter. Joe and Co are now trying to get in front of the parade in expectation of a few dollars going their way. My opinion.

Frankly I am tired of all this Bickering Whites versus Natives. All I care fore is that the ungulates of BC (and I write deliberately not our "Ungulates") have a decent chance to recover. When Chief Alphonse Decree includes no hunting by Natives and approving shooting Wolves from Helicopter that to me is as good as it can get.

Cheers

[Kill-da-wabbit]

Frankly I am tired of all this Bickering Whites versus Natives. All I care fore is that the ungulates of BC (and I write deliberately not our "Ungulates") have a decent chance to recover. When Chief Alphonse Decree includes no hunting by Natives and approving shooting Wolves from Helicopter that to me is as good as it can get.

Cheers
Problem is that you are not in the equation when it comes to input or being able to hunt when the population has recovered.

[bearvalley]

There was never a trap set, too much study money would have disappeared if their subjects started dying.
So.....no trapping was done that had ties to the Itcha mountain caribou?

[gcreek]

So.....no trapping was done that had ties to the Itcha mountain caribou?

There was lots of talk but never any money to do it. Been a few years now but there may have been a day or two of trapper training and a set for them to watch. Regardless, there was never a regimented wolf trapping plan started or carried out.

I do remember a helicopter flight where our friend was taken along and had the suggestion of camping out and killing wolves put to him for peanuts.

[Hunter gatherer]

I live in an area with many indian reserves and native people. I have never, ever had any native hunter or native person ever cause any troubles or concerns. They have all been polite, helpful, and a pleasure to have met. Many have shown me their best spots and offered any help that I required.

It gets really saddenng to hear all of "you people" disparage Indians like you do on this forum. Some of you are outright racist douchebags.

The government and many, many, many special interest groups are using the natives as a tool to drive a wedge in our society and to assist with their agendas. This is the root of the FN issues that we face today in this pathetic country.
I have the same experiences as you,hit the nail on the head

[Piperdown]

Until proven otherwise, I take Chief Joe Alphonse words at face value and say what he is doing is the right thing. Obviously he has the Balls so many of our elected Politicians are lacking when it comes to stand up against the DoGodders and use common Sense.

Cheers

Well grab yourself a big ass coffee, or later in the day a case of beer and look into Chief Joe. Lets see for starters, he has stated that he wants the moose hunt shut down,all leh stopped and also stated he would ask his members to refrain from shooting cow moose[ quote but i have many members who are poachers unquote]. Well if you are chief and respected, your members should listen to you, or make rules, if you break them off the reserve you go, maybe lose status.
After the start of the land claim settlement (and awarded a bigger chunk than asked for if i'm not mistaken), he would not allow resident hunters to go through their territory to legally hunt an leh draw in another area that is not theirs, even when they have no right too, does that sound like a stand up guy.
Soon he will probably own Gcreeks Ranch and if he is nice invite him back for dinner when he moves in, probably serve some nice caribou and moose too. There is so much more, pm Gcreek as they are buddies maybe he can tell you some more maybe not as he still says Joe is a dear friend :shock:.
In closing, have you seen the cow moose signs posted through his area, reason they are there is because of his nation slaughtering the cows in the wintering grounds, and he wonders where the moose are!!
Not being racist just putting two and two together.

[Bugle M In]

Well grab yourself a big ass coffee, or later in the day a case of beer and look into Chief Joe. Lets see for starters, he has stated that he wants the moose hunt shut down,all leh stopped and also stated he would ask his members to refrain from shooting cow moose[ quote but i have many members who are poachers unquote]. Well if you are chief and respected, your members should listen to you, or make rules, if you break them off the reserve you go, maybe lose status.
After the start of the land claim settlement (and awarded a bigger chunk than asked for if i'm not mistaken), he would not allow resident hunters to go through their territory to legally hunt an leh draw in another area that is not theirs, even when they have no right too, does that sound like a stand up guy.
Soon he will probably own Gcreeks Ranch and if he is nice invite him back for dinner when he moves in, probably serve some nice caribou and moose too. There is so much more, pm Gcreek as they are buddies maybe he can tell you some more maybe not as he still says Joe is a dear friend :shock:.
In closing, have you seen the cow moose signs posted through his area, reason they are there is because of his nation slaughtering the cows in the wintering grounds, and he wonders where the moose are!!
Not being racist just putting two and two together.

SemperArum will soon be on here to tell you that you are racist:shock::razz:

But yes, that chief has "got to go".
There is a lot of BS that guy has said or "privately communicated" that tells you exactly what his agenda is.
Should have a "Hunting Parade" to show up and drive thru the territory;)

[bearvalley]

No wonder wildlife in this province has crashed when you read thru the opinionated, critical and racist comments on this thread.... most of them coming from members/supporters of the conservation group that is supposed to be resident hunters rep.
Like rats after scraps.
These caribou are done unless the predator management proposed for this winter takes place.
A few years ago the Itcha-Ilgachuz herd was appr. 2500 +/-
The last count was 385...and probably half of them are left.
The wolf count number that came out of a bureaucrats mouth yesterday was 430.
You guys that are good at counting fingers can do the math on how much meat they eat.
A 2 year shoot is planned over an area that extends 25 km outside the herd range of the Itcha-Ilgachuz, Charlotte Applands and Tweedsmuir caribou herds.
Bureacrats are trying to feed out the shit on primary prey reductions as well....that means kill the moose that are left in this region.
They’ve been told that is not an option...the caribou are the primary prey....deal with the problem.
Bears are also being looked at as is a wild horse population that is nothing more than more meat to grow larger numbers of predators.
If primary prey needs to go the feral horses should be first in line.
Government has been told there is no excuse for the type wildlife management that caused these caribou herds to decline and that viable herds in other regions of BC need herd plans and predator management programs so we don’t see repeats of this fiasco.
Only a fool would not back Joe Alphonse and Lynda Price at this stage of the game,,,,they are the only ones that are going to appease the public’s appetite that a wolf cull is the way to go in the Chilcotin.
The UNDRIP lever will be getting pulled for wildlife management.
Who knows...gcreeks ranch might even become more viable if wolves, bears and wild horses get thinner out.
Or Joes ranch......

[tko]

Glad I got my nice caribou in the trophy room before they ban that too!

[SemperAurum]

SemperArum will soon be on here to tell you that you are racist:shock::razz:

But yes, that chief has "got to go".
There is a lot of BS that guy has said or "privately communicated" that tells you exactly what his agenda is.
Should have a "Hunting Parade" to show up and drive thru the territory;)


Nope.
Said it already.

If any of you have the balls to engage in a Hunting Parade contact me. I will be happy and proud to be involved.

[gcreek]

No wonder wildlife in this province has crashed when you read thru the opinionated, critical and racist comments on this thread.... most of them coming from members/supporters of the conservation group that is supposed to be resident hunters rep.
Like rats after scraps.
These caribou are done unless the predator management proposed for this winter takes place.
A few years ago the Itcha-Ilgachuz herd was appr. 2500 +/-
The last count was 385...and probably half of them are left.
The wolf count number that came out of a bureaucrats mouth yesterday was 430.
You guys that are good at counting fingers can do the math on how much meat they eat.
A 2 year shoot is planned over an area that extends 25 km outside the herd range of the Itcha-Ilgachuz, Charlotte Applands and Tweedsmuir caribou herds.
Bureacrats are trying to feed out the shit on primary prey reductions as well....that means kill the moose that are left in this region.
They’ve been told that is not an option...the caribou are the primary prey....deal with the problem.
Bears are also being looked at as is a wild horse population that is nothing more than more meat to grow larger numbers of predators.
If primary prey needs to go the feral horses should be first in line.
Government has been told there is no excuse for the type wildlife management that caused these caribou herds to decline and that viable herds in other regions of BC need herd plans and predator management programs so we don’t see repeats of this fiasco.
Only a fool would not back Joe Alphonse and Lynda Price at this stage of the game,,,,they are the only ones that are going to appease the public’s appetite that a wolf cull is the way to go in the Chilcotin.
The UNDRIP lever will be getting pulled for wildlife management.
Who knows...gcreeks ranch might even become more viable if wolves, bears and wild horses get thinner out.
Or Joes ranch......

Not saying I don't appreciate the support. What I didn't care for in the article was the biased reporting that painted non natives with a different brush than is true.

As far as wild horses go, this is one of the few ranches in the Chilcotin that is not dealing with horses. Those that thought they could run them here have removed them. Also, if this ranch had problems with viability, the loss of 433 cattle from range since 2003 would have finished us. No outside jobs or businesses to support the operation either. Shall we discuss your operation publicly Old Friend?

[bearvalley]

Not saying I don't appreciate the support. What I didn't care for in the article was the biased reporting that painted non natives with a different brush than is true.

As far as wild horses go, this is one of the few ranches in the Chilcotin that is not dealing with horses. Those that thought they could run them here have removed them. Also, if this ranch had problems with viability, the loss of 433 cattle from range since 2003 would have finished us. No outside jobs or businesses to support the operation either. Shall we discuss your operation publicly Old Friend?

Don’t get your shorts in a wad...old friend.
I wish I had FN support to remove predators eating my livestock.

[elknut]

I think everyone on this post forgets what really caused the caribou decline in the first place .....Logging ....Logging ...Logging ....After the govt realized the damage the logging had done they closed access to the area via motor vehicles ..The logging created good food for moose and in turn the wolves multiplied ...The caribou problem is the same the province over ...Logging has opened up the forests ,removed winter feed and territory for caribou and allowed moose to thrive and wolves to happily move in..The closing of caribou hunting is like closing the barn door after the animals have left the barn..Accusing the Natives of going to or already shooting the caribou is just plain BS..We should blame the govts for allowing logging in sensitive big game habitats...Everyone on this forum spouts HABITAT ...HABITAT ...As far as the Chilcotin and their leaders well whatever...Stupid decisions from the past are coming back to haunt us..Heaven forbid Logging supplies wood for mills that employ people and keep our communities running..Its a vicious circle ..Whether we are Native, white or whatever we all loose from a drop in game numbers .People who throw rocks shouldn't live in glass houses ....Dennis

[elknut]

Postscript ........I have in front of me a booklet titled ....Overcutting of the Chilcotin ...It was produced and written for BC Wild ..Quote ...In North America ,every herd of caribou has declined once the forest has been logged-no exceptions -over the course of the last two centuries...And in eastern North America most of those herds are now extinct."...1996 Rick Page ,Research Scientist with British Columbia's Ministry of Forests...Dennis...It not a Native problem its our problem...

[Muledeercrazy2]

Nope.
Said it already.

If any of you have the balls to engage in a Hunting Parade contact me. I will be happy and proud to be involved.

I have lived and worked with First Nations most of my life, and hunted in many areas where it was easy to observe the ethical and environmental behaviour of the “stewards of the land”. If your reality or truth ( the new bs pc speak) is that Natives are ethical hunters and not detracting from conservation attempts, so be it. My “truth” in Mr. Alphonse’s region is that they are not stewards of the land at all, and the idea of them imposing laws on the general population is crazy.

By by the way, I admit to being a bigot but take offence at the racism comment...

[Muledeercrazy2]

Good point. This is one issue that we definitely created, and any help for predator management is a good thing now. In 25 years of hunting I have never seen so many wolf tracks throughout our province.

[SemperAurum]

I have lived and worked with First Nations most of my life, and hunted in many areas where it was easy to observe the ethical and environmental behaviour of the “stewards of the land”. If your reality or truth ( the new bs pc speak) is that Natives are ethical hunters and not detracting from conservation attempts, so be it. My “truth” in Mr. Alphonse’s region is that they are not stewards of the land at all, and the idea of them imposing laws on the general population is crazy.

By by the way, I admit to being a bigot but take offence at the racism comment...

Dont put your words in my mouth

I am just a simple white man with many wonderful native friends.

[bearvalley]

Postscript ........I have in front of me a booklet titled ....Overcutting of the Chilcotin ...It was produced and written for BC Wild ..Quote ...In North America ,every herd of caribou has declined once the forest has been logged-no exceptions -over the course of the last two centuries...And in eastern North America most of those herds are now extinct."...1996 Rick Page ,Research Scientist with British Columbia's Ministry of Forests...Dennis...It not a Native problem its our problem...

Mountain caribou herds are on the decline where ZERO logging or industrial activity has occurred.
Science is showing the decline is due to predation.
The Kool-Aid needs to dry up and the problem dealt with.
BC has no wildlife management....there is no predator management and we have spent several decades of growing more and more predatory species.
Logging is part of the issue but sure as hell should not be the complete scapegoat.

[Muledeercrazy2]

Dont put your words in my mouth

I am just a simple white man with many wonderful native friends.

your mouth is already full of something else...

Its not racist to speak the truth... I also have Native friends, successful ones who don’t want anything to do with playing the victim for them or their children.

[Muledeercrazy2]

FN are just like the rest of us in many ways... lots of good people. But stewards of the land..? Lol, no. Concerned about their future share of resource allocation, definitely. Probably rightfully.

Is it it right to stereotype FN as road hunters? No more right than the righteousness we see on here, no tolerance or consideration that some are old, disabled, sick, or maybe just feeling lazy that day. Anyways- FN certainly no more connected or entitled to the land than most of the hunting community in BC, yet we are treated as a poor cousin in comparison. Expect resentment and anger, it’s only going to get worse.

[303savage]

" hunting ban on Mountain Caribou in their traditional territories.
Applying to everyone including First Nations people, "
When did the first nations get the right to ban anything on crown land?

[Piperdown]

OK, BV, first off i do agree on one thing, about the logging where this herd is, bang on not an issue here. Now ole Joe is not the knight in shining armor. If he is so in tune with his surroundings and his caribou and his moose then he would have know long ago that the wolves where the major culprit. You and i both know Dale from the Blackwater and i don't know a person who knows this area any better than him. He made this point to me many years ago but nobody would listen. Now will Joe get anything done now that he is standing on top of the mtn for everybody to see and hear, who knows, time will tell but the caribou have about run out of time.
The govt may or may not listen, as for paying for it, well this govt is weak, so i wouldn't count on them to provide the money and in the process lose votes when the next election comes around. Maybe Joe can buck up and use some of the settlement money, you know like put your money where your mouth is, the govt wouldn't charge him as they have no balls, if this happened maybe he would garner a bit of respect, until then, not a chance.
Gcreek, i know you and i have not agreed on much, but i feel for you, you have been telling anyone who will listen for some time now, lost many cattle to the wolves with no help, and now maybe even the ranch in this landscape disaster. I am sure you are well aware of Profit-A-Prendre, if you are not, google www.beefinbc.ca (http://www.beefinbc.ca), but this is another topic but relates to the settlements.
Never in my life would i think what is happening in our country would ever happen and still find it hard to believe it is, rant over!!

[303savage]

as for paying for it, well this govt is weak, I thought lic. and tag fees paid for that stuff?

[North Thompson Hunter]

I was going to stay silent on this one, but I just couldn't! This thread illustrates why I have changed my user-name and do not frequent this website anymore, except for occasional visits like this one. This website (Hunting BC) has become a voice of intolerance, and especially against First Nations. I know there are FN members that are assholes and do not abide by their own laws, but hey, that is not exclusive to First Nation people, right? I think the administrators or moderators, whatever you call yourselves, should review your policies regarding hate speech. Hunting is an admirable sport, and both FN and all that are not FN agree on a lot of issues, particularly hunter education, conservation, fair chase and proper seasons. First Nation people have a right to harvest animals for their own subsistence beyond established seasons, but not beyond conservation and not an unlimited harvest. A post such as this one, which is an eminently reasonable one, to shut down this particular caribou hunt (if you have been following the caribou opportunities and populations in this Province, then you will be wondering why this one has been open so long anyway). The root problem with this website is the inability to upvote or downvote particular comments. If this was a thing, then racist remarks could be downvoted into oblivion. As it is, they stand alongside honest thoughtful comments, as if they were equal.

[wildcatter]

I was going to stay silent on this one, but I just couldn't! This thread illustrates why I have changed my user-name and do not frequent this website anymore, except for occasional visits like this one. This website (Hunting BC) has become a voice of intolerance, and especially against First Nations. I know there are FN members that are assholes and do not abide by their own laws, but hey, that is not exclusive to First Nation people, right? I think the administrators or moderators, whatever you call yourselves, should review your policies regarding hate speech. Hunting is an admirable sport, and both FN and all that are not FN agree on a lot of issues, particularly hunter education, conservation, fair chase and proper seasons. First Nation people have a right to harvest animals for their own subsistence beyond established seasons, but not beyond conservation and not an unlimited harvest. A post such as this one, which is an eminently reasonable one, to shut down this particular caribou hunt (if you have been following the caribou opportunities and populations in this Province, then you will be wondering why this one has been open so long anyway). The root problem with this website is the inability to upvote or downvote particular comments. If this was a thing, then racist remarks could be downvoted into oblivion. As it is, they stand alongside honest thoughtful comments, as if they were equal.

Too much bickering that will not do anything to remedy the problem.
This is all I have to say:

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/EIwjgf3WwAALrGo_large.jpg

[Muledeercrazy2]

Definition of racism...

a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.


It seems like many people think that the term racism is actually a noun to be used to silence perspectives that aren’t PC. Many of those “inconvenient truths” could be voiced in a “nicer” way, but hey, the average Canadian is getting angry. But hey, not as angry or bigoted as the average FN member in BC. Or maybe you haven’t lived or worked with them and want to romanticize something you really don’t have any first hand experience with.

[gcreek]

Don’t get your shorts in a wad...old friend.
I wish I had FN support to remove predators eating my livestock.

You may remember I had a hand in convincing my friend Joe to step up to the plate concerning predators...… I was also invited to attend the first moose recovery meeting. I was one of three out of about 70 attendees that wasn't paid to be there. That beside the point, I was very encouraged by the whole proceeding until a lawyer stood up and began to spout her bullshyte. All I could envision was a block of wood with a wedge being driven deeper with every word. I did stop her mid sentence and let her know why I was there.... to help my neighbors help me and not to line lawyers pockets with more ammunition. I told Joe at the meetings end that I likely wouldn't be attending another and he knew why and was sympathetic to my opinion.
The left leaning media is really promoting the Indian movement today. Do I blame my neighbors? Not really, but I won't be swept quietly under the carpet while lawyers and judges give MY LAND away to someone because of their race. There have been many comments in this thread and others that are or border on being racist, if govt. and courts stay their course they are only going to get worse. People are starting to get their eyes opened as to what is going on in this country.

Concerning UNDRIP, I was told the other day by an MLA that it means absolutely nothing but can be used by lawyers wanting to impress the lefty courts that it has been passed in BC. The Canadian Constitution as yet has no place for any UNDRIP agreement in OUR country.

[SemperAurum]

your mouth is already full of something else...

Its not racist to speak the truth... I also have Native friends, successful ones who don’t want anything to do with playing the victim for them or their children.


You are entitled to your viewpoint and comments. I do not take offence to your comments.

I know two things for certain: If you ever met me you would like me, and more importantly, you would be very, very, very inclined to be polite and respectful.

[Muledeercrazy2]

You are entitled to your viewpoint and comments. I do not take offence to your comments.

I know two things for certain: If you ever met me you would like me, and more importantly, you would be very, very, very inclined to be polite and respectful.

Hey, I’m frustrated with the current status quo and have no reason to be petty. Sorry for the wisecrack! About my inclinations, you might be surprised. But liking someone goes a long ways.

[SemperAurum]

Hey, I’m frustrated with the current status quo and have no reason to be petty. Sorry for the wisecrack! About my inclinations, you might be surprised. But liking someone goes a long ways.

I am also frustrated. But reality is that animals have disappeared from areas that natives dont hunt such as Muskwa/Tuchodi/Gathto. Only whitey, wolves, and gbears hunts up there.

No industry, no logging, no road access, no atv/utv

Massive gbear and wolf numbers

[SemperAurum]

I am at the crossroads of deciding to quit hunting and sell all my crap. Follow some other enjoyable trails in life.

Hunting has cost a fortune in time and money and I am not happy about what I see and dont see out there anymore.

[Muledeercrazy2]

I am also frustrated. But reality is that animals have disappeared from areas that natives dont hunt such as Muskwa/Tuchodi/Gathto. Only whitey, wolves, and gbears hunts up there.

No industry, no logging, no road access, no atv/utv

Massive gbear and wolf numbers

Agreed- i think in most cases the FN in BC don’t harvest a substantial amount of animals and don’t have any more negative impact than any other, in the big picture. That said, i see (or did) a lot of Moose shot around Alex Creek by FN when there was concern about a small number of resident hunter leh draws. Obviously not the reason for the decline, but it didn’t help and I don’t think very much of Mr. Alphonse.

[SemperAurum]

Agreed- i think in most cases the FN in BC don’t harvest a substantial amount of animals and don’t have any more negative impact than any other, in the big picture. That said, i see (or did) a lot of Moose shot around Alex Creek by FN when there was concern about a small number of resident hunter leh draws. Obviously not the reason for the decline, but it didn’t help and I don’t think very much of Mr. Alphonse.

Quite a few years ago I saw Joe at the BP in Willys Puddle. He was dressd up like a cross between a totem pole and a clown and struttng around like a peacock rooster. I had the strongst urge to walk up and kick him in the tail feathers.

I resisted, outof respect for Srupp, in case he was the paramedic dispatched to treat him.

[Muledeercrazy2]

Quite a few years ago I saw Joe at the BP in Willys Puddle. He was dressd up like a cross between a totem pole and a clown and struttng around like a peacock rooster. I had the strongst urge to walk up and kick him in the tail feathers.

I resisted, outof respect for Srupp, in case he was the paramedic dispatched to treat him.

i had the misfortune of meeting him at a business related event and would have been happy to do it, no regard for Stephen! Lol, hopefully he would understand.

[HarryToolips]

gcreek can fill you in more but I believe the UFN had a private biologist working for them on this issue along with a trapper in efforts to slow up the wolves.
Trapping wolves on a large landscape to recover wildlife is like pissing in the wind.
There is a proposed helicopter shoot in the works for this winter.
You guys better hope the Feds “partners” Raincoast don’t put the brakes on it.
Good to hear, let's hope Raincoast doesn't do that.....

[Jagermeister]

Don’t get your shorts in a wad...old friend.
I wish I had FN support to remove predators eating my livestock.What, TS not culling the wolves in your back 40?

[bearvalley]

What, TS not culling the wolves in your back 40?
Nope.... there’s a story to that attempted performance.

[338win mag]

You may remember I had a hand in convincing my friend Joe to step up to the plate concerning predators...… I was also invited to attend the first moose recovery meeting. I was one of three out of about 70 attendees that wasn't paid to be there. That beside the point, I was very encouraged by the whole proceeding until a lawyer stood up and began to spout her bullshyte. All I could envision was a block of wood with a wedge being driven deeper with every word. I did stop her mid sentence and let her know why I was there.... to help my neighbors help me and not to line lawyers pockets with more ammunition. I told Joe at the meetings end that I likely wouldn't be attending another and he knew why and was sympathetic to my opinion.
The left leaning media is really promoting the Indian movement today. Do I blame my neighbors? Not really, but I won't be swept quietly under the carpet while lawyers and judges give MY LAND away to someone because of their race. There have been many comments in this thread and others that are or border on being racist, if govt. and courts stay their course they are only going to get worse. People are starting to get their eyes opened as to what is going on in this country.

Concerning UNDRIP, I was told the other day by an MLA that it means absolutely nothing but can be used by lawyers wanting to impress the lefty courts that it has been passed in BC. The Canadian Constitution as yet has no place for any UNDRIP agreement in OUR country.
Gcreek, you are a stand up guy, a realist who knows where we are going without any bullshit, I hope it works out for you.

Glad someone pumps the brakes on Caribou hunting, someone should of done that during the decline of the Buffalo.

That said, its a multifaceted issue and for some this is the real issue....its the Fox taking charge of the henhouse and the first big step toward the future governing of wildlife in the province by the Fox. Is the Province that incompetent that they couldn't do it? or is it they wouldn't do it?...big difference.

The entire Caribou issue in this Province is so phoney, its really beyond anything I can think of in recent memory, a political tool to use and they have been found out. To make FN the savior for wildlife in this Province leaves me with a feeling of despair for my country and those who govern it, from the top down, but I preach to the choir.

The Royal Proclamation, the Constitution, section 35, etc....was to be for.....the King of England, France, Canada, beetnick hippie, could not legally take a Native person's hunting away from them and their Community collective. The courts have taken it sideways with an interpretation thats go's way beyond what the original framers of this treaty, or other treaties had in mind, opening the door to self government.
It could be self Government if it only involves themselves, but it doesn't, it involves lording over YOU, and YOU are going to pay for it.
Then we have foreign influence, UNDRIP.....there is going to be big trouble for all with this.

Some of you speak of Racism, wtf do you know about racism? I have seen racism that would make any mass murderer wince coming from my Indian cousins toward their Native brethren of a neighboring band, or another band from a thousand miles away, even though they have never met them.
I have seen racism coming from them that had the seeds planted 150 years ago, and yet they still hold a grudge against the other rival Nation...even though they have never met any of them. I have never seen racism like I have seen coming from some of the Native people of this Province.
Its troubling to lay anything at the feet of this site involving deemed "racist" comments, don't confuse "truth" and "racism"

We were taught to counter racism with your actions within your Community, your reputation is all you have, this is how you will be viewed, and if you don't understand this then stfu.

[BgBlkDg]

VERY well said and you are 110% correct in your comments.

[338win mag]

Thanks BgBLKDg, the truth hurts, but not as much as being fed a bunch of bs by those who govern us at all levels.
Now I know why its good to love your enemy...because one day you and your enemy may have the same goals, and may need one another's help to achieve those ends, when you see former enemies uniting in a common cause, look out.

[Bugle M In]

I was going to stay silent on this one, but I just couldn't! This thread illustrates why I have changed my user-name and do not frequent this website anymore, except for occasional visits like this one. This website (Hunting BC) has become a voice of intolerance, and especially against First Nations. I know there are FN members that are assholes and do not abide by their own laws, but hey, that is not exclusive to First Nation people, right? I think the administrators or moderators, whatever you call yourselves, should review your policies regarding hate speech. Hunting is an admirable sport, and both FN and all that are not FN agree on a lot of issues, particularly hunter education, conservation, fair chase and proper seasons. First Nation people have a right to harvest animals for their own subsistence beyond established seasons, but not beyond conservation and not an unlimited harvest. A post such as this one, which is an eminently reasonable one, to shut down this particular caribou hunt (if you have been following the caribou opportunities and populations in this Province, then you will be wondering why this one has been open so long anyway). The root problem with this website is the inability to upvote or downvote particular comments. If this was a thing, then racist remarks could be downvoted into oblivion. As it is, they stand alongside honest thoughtful comments, as if they were equal.
My thoughts on what you said.....
https://i.imgur.com/FZSIp5a.jpg

[elknut]

BEARVALLEY......I agree that in the Kootenays they have a unlogged area that the caribou have been reduced to one animal...But the subject was the Region 5 area in the Itcha.s ...Its a proven fact that logging was the cause of the decline of the caribou..Predation was the cause due to the opening up and creating moose habitat and therefore allowing the wolves and bears to multiply...As far as management I agree with you 100 %...As for predator management again I agree with you 100 %..There was none....Some animals on the earth will either adapt or perish and the caribou is one of those species ..As far as Alphonse leading anything that is a joke...Since the development of google earth one has to only gloss over the logged or burned areas of BC and see the opening up of our forests..Biologists agree that roads and in winter snowmobile tracks create hwys for wolves ...It is what it is but things will get worse before they get better..Logging ,fires have and continue to be major causes of wildlife reductions allowing predators easy access to ungulates that have reduced mature forests to live and hide from predators...This is my belief from information that I have seen ,read or watched videos on ..No dispespect to you ...Your belief is yours ....Dennis

[bearvalley]

BEARVALLEY......I agree that in the Kootenays they have a unlogged area that the caribou have been reduced to one animal...But the subject was the Region 5 area in the Itcha.s ...Its a proven fact that logging was the cause of the decline of the caribou..Predation was the cause due to the opening up and creating moose habitat and therefore allowing the wolves and bears to multiply...As far as management I agree with you 100 %...As for predator management again I agree with you 100 %..There was none....Some animals on the earth will either adapt or perish and the caribou is one of those species ..As far as Alphonse leading anything that is a joke...Since the development of google earth one has to only gloss over the logged or burned areas of BC and see the opening up of our forests..Biologists agree that roads and in winter snowmobile tracks create hwys for wolves ...It is what it is but things will get worse before they get better..Logging ,fires have and continue to be major causes of wildlife reductions allowing predators easy access to ungulates that have reduced mature forests to live and hide from predators...This is my belief from information that I have seen ,read or watched videos on ..No dispespect to you ...Your belief is yours ....Dennis
Dennis.... I’d suggest you study the recovery plan for that area.
The Itcha-Ilgachuz herd is tied to the Charlotte Applands herd and the Tweedsmuir caribou as well.
Now tell me how much logging went on within the complete area these caribou range over.
Like gcreek, who happens to live in the middle of were these caribou migrated, says....the habitat is there.
I just spent part of 2 days last week in meeting with the recovery “experts” on this subject....430 wolves were admitted to being out there chewing on what was 385 caribou at the last count.
All the BS being peddled about habitat and primary prey reduction is a defective cover up for procrastination.
I agree we need to pull up our socks in the future as to how we look after habitat and correct the degradation that’s happened in the past...that’ll take decades.
For today we better do what we can do and that start managing predation.

[Bugle M In]

Dennis.... I’d suggest you study the recovery plan for that area.
The Itcha-Ilgachuz herd is tied to the Charlotte Applands herd and the Tweedsmuir caribou as well.
Now tell me how much logging went on within the complete area these caribou range over.
Like gcreek, who happens to live in the middle of were these caribou migrated, says....the habitat is there.
I just spent part of 2 days last week in meeting with the recovery “experts” on this subject....430 wolves were admitted to being out there chewing on what was 385 caribou at the last count.
All the BS being peddled about habitat and primary prey reduction is a defective cover up for procrastination.
I agree we need to pull up our socks in the future as to how we look after habitat and correct the degradation that’s happened in the past...that’ll take decades.
For today we better do what we can do and that start managing predation.

^^^^YUP!!!

So many folks sit around a table trying to come up with all sorts of new hunting regulations etc.
When the real issue is not being addressed and the people who are somebody, are not screaming at the Ministry and saying
"hey, we are all out of finding new hunting restrictions" and "its time for you guys (Minsitry) to start addressing the issues at hand....NOW!!"

And yes, the better habitat and how we do it will take years to become the right habitat for the future.

[upperleftcoaster]

^^^^YUP!!!

So many folks sit around a table trying to come up with all sorts of new hunting regulations etc.
When the real issue is not being addressed and the people who are somebody, are not screaming at the Ministry and saying
"hey, we are all out of finding new hunting restrictions" and "its time for you guys (Minsitry) to start addressing the issues at hand....NOW!!"

And yes, the better habitat and how we do it will take years to become the right habitat for the future.

I agree.

Sounds like a lot of arguing over the side-effects of an inept government.
the native tribes are just politicking around it, we are bickering about the decline pointing fingers... but was it over hunted? predators? habitat loss? something else? ask your neighbourhood biologist, but then what do we do?

for me it lands on the ministry in failing to run the show. without their say-so, funding, and political clout, nothing is happening. we are also talking about the same ministry that makes you submit your proof of BC residency every 5 years. you know, because this government ministry can't communicate with the same government to find that out. inept...any surprise nothing is happening?

all the money is going to other special causes, payouts, UNDRIP?, whatever is the flavour and hip today in vancouver to get the politicians elected. no one cares about some caribou in the interior they really didn't know about earlier. why would any politician budget for that?

[elknut]

I agree that predation is the cause Bearvalley and it has to be addressed...Governments new about the wolf problem in the 90,s ...They did nothing ...It was politically incorrect ...The point I was getting across was that logging and clearcutting an area created the problem ...After the logging the wolves were the problem ..Im not against logging ...Heaven forbid my career was in wood ...Yes north and west of there there is habitat ..Culling the wolves as was suggested is the only answer ...It will help the game and the ranchers ..The Ministry is on board with a wolf cull ..Its happening up north and hopefully here ..Our problem in this province is that politics runs our ministries not science ..Science dictates culling wolves..My feelings are that hopefully this wolf cull happens and continues ..Good to see First Nations on board or maybe if they weren't it wouldn't happen at all ..Dennis