Where did all the whitetails go

[bigben]

A petition is going around about the liberal doe season and being out there for the last month it is been a strange year hunting whitetails here in the kootenays sighting have been less and hard to find them We have scientific proof that there are alot of them out there just wondering are hunters from here and afar having the same problem as I am hearing here in the streets that harvesting a whitetail has become like looking for a needle in the haystack

[Stone Sheep Steve]

So they disappeared from last year to this year?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Forgot to ask... how are the mule deer doing in your area? Have they improved??

[Wild one]

I don’t hunt the koots but when it comes to whitetail I don’t judge a population on physical sightings or hunter success. They react to pressure and disappear turning nocturnal. If you are running lots of cams and getting a big decrease or no longer seeing tracks in the snow there maybe an issue

Most of the WT areas I am hunting this year in Alberta I have not seen a whitetail on the road or any nearby openings. But the sign is there, cam pics, and when sitting in the bush I see them everyday.

Like I said I don’t hunt the koots and numbers could be down but I have had a lot of hunters tell me there is no WT well there is 20 different sets of tracks behind them in the snow lol

[palmer]

In my part of 8-15 numbers are down. Even on large sections of private land numbers are down. Are they still here yes but numbers are down. I have also not seen the quality of bucks I have seen in other years.
Mule deer do seem to be doing a little better but am hearing that too many mule does are being shot by mistake. Did find a couple of mule does myself that had been shot and left, I guess some people can't tell the difference between MD and WT
Hoping for a mild winter and death to a few predators

[Wild one]

Forgot to ask... how are the mule deer doing in your area? Have they improved??

Elk numbers being down and elk being documented as the MD top competition and have the largest impact on MD numbers they should be improving in the koots ;)

[todbartell]

I have had a lot of hunters tell me there is no WT well there is 20 different sets of tracks behind them in the snow lol

:mrgreen: hah so true

[rocksteady]

The population is down, but it depends what year you compare it to.

Compared to last year, maybe not much.. Compared to 1995 way down..

[LBM]

A petition is going around about the liberal doe season and being out there for the last month it is been a strange year hunting whitetails here in the kootenays sighting have been less and hard to find them We have scientific proof that there are alot of them out there just wondering are hunters from here and afar having the same problem as I am hearing here in the streets that harvesting a whitetail has become like looking for a needle in the haystack
numbers are down in many parts of the Kootenays, only thing that was really changed was the doe season so probably the cause of the decline. The doe season and decline of the whitetails has caused lots of problems with lots of the animals
in the Kootenays. One thing that was interesting was the comment on the CWD post about many of the deer that couldn't be tested because they were to young/under one year of age so if these deer are being shot this young maybe they reason for no fawn recruitment.

[B-rad]

I have not seen a difference in population//numbers at all here,,,,Kamloops,,,,,,if anything certain areas where showing more sightings,,,,BUT with that being said,,,,,the WT are still on a steady spread through region 3,,,,,but this time of year,,,,unless someone actually gets out of their vehicle and scouts,,,,,,sightings are gonna be rare and far between,,,,,,,,they are a very smart animal,,,,,,about same time every year,,,,,the hunting pressure wises them up for another year,,,,,,,keeping well away from public sight,,,,and any noise not natural to their surroundings,,,,,,even the mule deer on my property have gone skittish,,,,,,and will only see or hear them in middle of night,,,,,,i checked my trail cameras from the 2 areas I harvested my WT this year,,,,,,and they are still moving around,,,,,,,average times of moving from 2am--4am

[skibum]

I am cynical (believing that people are motivated by self interest) until I see these petitions backed by more than anidotical statements about what people are seeing in the bush.

A potential problem has been identified, needs to be proven now with real data.

[jac]

The biologist I spoke with said that the winter weather and snow pack is really hard on WT. That being said I would gladly sign a petition to stop the Doe season!!

[marcus44]

Look at the last couple of years with the province being blanketed in smoke over the summer that definitely plays a role in the health of the wildlife population. Also, as more and more people find there way into the back country the smarter and more animals are becoming

[RyoTHC]

The biologist I spoke with said that the winter weather and snow pack is really hard on WT. That being said I would gladly sign a petition to stop the Doe season!!

sign away and I’ll gladly keep blasting 3 WT a season including 1-2 does depending on how much tasty table fare I want. Mmmm

first tag I fill every year is a WT doe. That’s the money right there.

I guess I’m not as manly as a lot of the hunters here.

it’s hilarious that the people not shooting WT or even finding them call for a season change. Maybe you guys just don’t know how to hunt white tail? It’s not a fluke myself and my hunting partner took FIVE white tail out this season for the freezer, I personally saw dozens of WT every single putting.

But boo hoo I wasn’t able to road hunt them numbers must be down.

[caddisguy]

They're all moving to Region 2 where there is no season. Smart buggers.

[todbartell]

Keep the pressure on the WTD, harvest many bucks and does.

[RyoTHC]

Keep the pressure on the WTD, harvest many bucks and does.

exactly. These deer are much much more adaptable than mule deer, even our liberal seasons won’t slow them down a smidgeon. You will see all the mule deer vanish before you need to start worrying about the white tail populations declining, they are just smarter than your average hunter and that frustrates a lot of people into thinking they aren’t there.

[bigben]

Forgot to ask... how are the mule deer doing in your area? Have they improved??

Did you come down and hunt them in the kootenay you tell me and will both know thanxs

[jac]

sign away and I’ll gladly keep blasting 3 WT a season including 1-2 does depending on how much tasty table fare I want. Mmmm

first tag I fill every year is a WT doe. That’s the money right there.

I guess I’m not as manly as a lot of the hunters here.

it’s hilarious that the people not shooting WT or even finding them call for a season change. Maybe you guys just don’t know how to hunt white tail? It’s not a fluke myself and my hunting partner took FIVE white tail out this season for the freezer, I personally saw dozens of WT every single putting.

But boo hoo I wasn’t able to road hunt them numbers must be down.

just spent 40 hours over the last 5 days in my blind past on 2 smaller bucks no road hunter here. I don’t hunt just for the meat I enjoy the challenge and the experience in the woods. Maybe you could give us all some of your great tips on Whitetail hunting!!!

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Did you come down and hunt them in the kootenay you tell me and will both know thanxs

No I haven’t but the main reason why the East Koots ‘had’ a two whitetail doe limit was to reduce their numbers. While some hunters may long for the days of seeing a hundred whitetail does before lunch, it wasn’t good for the habitat.... or mule deer.
’Apparent competition’ with mule deer was an issue.

That population reduction was met and the whitey doe limit was reduced to one.

If the whitetails did take a hit last winter, stay on them. You won’t keep them down for long but it will benefit the mule deer.

Maybe re-read that mulw deer thread that I bumped not long ago. So much good info in there from knowledgeable people that are no longer with us.

My whitetail season here lasted a total of 45 mins...but I don’t put a lot of weight in my personal observations.

SSS

[Everett]

Forgot to ask... how are the mule deer doing in your area? Have they improved??\

Mule deer are doing great showing up areas were they have been absent for years.

[Wild one]

exactly. These deer are much much more adaptable than mule deer, even our liberal seasons won’t slow them down a smidgeon. You will see all the mule deer vanish before you need to start worrying about the white tail populations declining, they are just smarter than your average hunter and that frustrates a lot of people into thinking they aren’t there.

You will see mule deer vanish from piss poor management of mule deer, MD habitat, and lack of predator control in B.C.. It won’t be do to WT deer but they make a great excuse. B.C.s WT populations are piss poor compared to many places outside of B.C. where both species exist.

But I do agree most BC hunters still have not come close to adapting to WT deer and still hunt them like MD or road hunt glassing clear cuts. In the last 10years a portion of B.C. hunters have started to adapt but not even close to areas where WT is common to been the main target

WT are not invincible like some in BC like to think and actually had to be reintroduced to many states to rebuild populations in the past do to over hunting. Lots of myths about WT in BC and with research it’s not hard to see the BS

Not a direct shot at you RyoTHC but when it comes to WT in BC I find some of the BS I hear hard to swallow. I am far from clueless about this species either lol

[LBM]

No I haven’t but the main reason why the East Koots ‘had’ a two whitetail doe limit was to reduce their numbers. While some hunters may long for the days of seeing a hundred whitetail does before lunch, it wasn’t good for the habitat.... or mule deer.
’Apparent competition’ with mule deer was an issue.

That population reduction was met and the whitey doe limit was reduced to one.

If the whitetails did take a hit last winter, stay on them. You won’t keep them down for long but it will benefit the mule deer.

Maybe re-read that mulw deer thread that I bumped not long ago. So much good info in there from knowledgeable people that are no longer with us.

My whitetail season here lasted a total of 45 mins...but I don’t put a lot of weight in my personal observations.

SSS

That was one of the reasons on the doe season that they put out along with it was for hunter recruitment or the one it was to starve out wolves and cats, lots of stuff throwing out there too try and justify it.
It did back fire some what on some ways and may cause issues in others since the wolves and cats had to move on to something else to eat, such as sheep and since they seem to be way more important
to some then deer they can justify killing off more predators.

[Pauly]

That was one of the reasons on the doe season that they put out along with it was for hunter recruitment or the one it was to starve out wolves and cats, lots of stuff throwing out there too try and justify it.
It did back fire some what on some ways and may cause issues in others since the wolves and cats had to move on to something else to eat, such as sheep and since they seem to be way more important
to some then deer they can justify killing off more predators.
No shortage of whitetail around my area our group filled all our tags but one and never mind lost opportunities. The two deer season hasn’t made a dent I hunt my area hard and have shot a pile of whitetail and yet every year their seems to be more. Nothing like mule deer hunting once I figured it out holly crap did I find the whitetail. One cagey animal. They love to bed along roads in the thick stuff and watch traffic drive by. Kamloops has always been mule deer country and I’d like to keep it like that so I’m all for hunting them hard. However; I’m not sure that’s slowing them down.

[Redthies]

They're all moving to Region 2 where there is no season. Smart buggers.

My weimaraner chased two WTs off the lower half of our acreage a km from Peace Arch this spring. There are no whitetail in region 2 though...

[HarryToolips]

Out of everyone who has replied to this thread, who has harvested a WT doe this season? I may still but I'm saving that for my recurve...I'm guessing that it's only a few of us, I don't think that overall, a lot are harvested, contrary to what some believe..

I think that overall,in my area they're numbers are down a bit, but I don't think that's due to hunting, I think it's more due to habitat loss (development on winter range), and maybe a bit of increased predation...that being said, I have still seen quite a few this year..

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Out of everyone who has replied to this thread, who has harvested a WT doe this season? I may still but I'm saving that for my recurve...I'm guessing that it's only a few of us, I don't think that overall, a lot are harvested, contrary to what some believe..

I think that overall,in my area they're numbers are down a bit, but I don't think that's due to hunting, I think it's more due to habitat loss (development on winter range), and maybe a bit of increased predation...that being said, I have still seen quite a few this year..

I shot my first ever whitetail doe in the GOS( have only killed one other in the late archery season).
I don’t normally hunt much in October but the deer seemed to be active in mid to late Oct. I think they stayed at lower elevation where I hunt in November because of our moist summer and fall.

SSS

[Norwestalta]

At the beginning of the season I thought there was no deer. Last couple days they seemed to be like vermin. Every where there was deer. If the ones I seen make through the next month I think we'll have some pretty nice bucks next fall. The surprising thing is that there was no sign of any kind in the bush.

[HighCountryBC]

Out of everyone who has replied to this thread, who has harvested a WT doe this season? I may still but I'm saving that for my recurve...I'm guessing that it's only a few of us, I don't think that overall, a lot are harvested, contrary to what some believe..

I think that overall,in my area they're numbers are down a bit, but I don't think that's due to hunting, I think it's more due to habitat loss (development on winter range), and maybe a bit of increased predation...that being said, I have still seen quite a few this year..

You'd be correct. It's one of the most under-utilized seasons provincially. There's a reason they stop counting them on inventory flights when they tally a few hundred in under 30 minutes of flying.

[RyoTHC]

Out of everyone who has replied to this thread, who has harvested a WT doe this season? I may still but I'm saving that for my recurve...I'm guessing that it's only a few of us, I don't think that overall, a lot are harvested, contrary to what some believe..

I think that overall,in my area they're numbers are down a bit, but I don't think that's due to hunting, I think it's more due to habitat loss (development on winter range), and maybe a bit of increased predation...that being said, I have still seen quite a few this year..

myself and everyone in my hunting party. White tail doe is our first big game target each year, then we move to MD bucks then WT bucks. There is no hesitation from any of us to drop that second doe as well if we are limited in time and we will continue to do so. I hunted zone 3 and 8 this season and I’m talking 50+ hunting days, not just your frustrated weekend warrior and guess what, I saw MORE white tail than mule deer over the entirety of the season. Zone 8 and 3 included.

it makes me laugh so so so hard when I see anyone on this forum complaining about not finding WT or the populations. I have ran into HUNDREDS of WT within a 2 hour drive of my house this season. They are EVERYWHERE if you can actually figure them out and aren’t too lazy to put in the effort.

I hole heartedly believe even half the people on here that “claim” they are getting out of the truck and spending the time to hunt WT are not. They half ass it get frustrated and quit. Also, how many of you guys can tell the difference between MD and WT sign? They act very differently and it’s distinctive more often than not.

[RyoTHC]

just spent 40 hours over the last 5 days in my blind past on 2 smaller bucks no road hunter here. I don’t hunt just for the meat I enjoy the challenge and the experience in the woods. Maybe you could give us all some of your great tips on Whitetail hunting!!!

Nah I think I’m at my quota this season for helping other people fill their tags. There are 5 members on this forum who have 7 white tail in their freezer thanks to me either taking them out and showing them the ropes or damn near giving them GPS coordinates to some nice herds.

im sorry your 8 hours a day were wasted in an crappy spot, maybe by day two or three you should have moved and realized the deer just aren’t where you are hunting.

also don’t pass on anything day one you’d be happy with on the last day.

[Walking Buffalo]

just spent 40 hours over the last 5 days in my blind past on 2 smaller bucks no road hunter here. I don’t hunt just for the meat I enjoy the challenge and the experience in the woods. Maybe you could give us all some of your great tips on Whitetail hunting!!!

My tip would be to move your blind.

[RyoTHC]

My tip would be to move your blind.


see, ask nicely and you shall receive. Hopefully this hot tip leads you to your buck

[jac]

My tip would be to move your blind.

thanks for the tips i sat in 3 spots seen about 25 deer 2 bucks. Not my first rodeo

[Walking Buffalo]

Bigben,

Please post the petition.
Thanks.

[Wild one]

I doubt the strong WT populations in 3/8/4/7B are effected much by the doe season. Yes there is flights in BC where they stop counting WT but this does not apply for majority of the province but for region 8 you bet this has happened. Tons of areas in BC are very low density WT populations as well and many MUs rarely see counts.

Yes most BC hunters are way behind with WT tactics compared to those areas in North America where WT is the top species targeted. This is a big factor to most being unsuccessful on WT in BC now that you are hunting pressured deer they get smart. Not going to pick a$$ because there is multiple ways to get it done but yes most BC hunters need to adapt to target WT.

Have fun boys switching to another location for the afternoon wind change

[wideopenthrottle]

my WT hunting consists of setting up before first light in a spot I know they could be moving through to get to their bedding areas. If they move past I get one...if they take a different route I still have a pretty good idea where they went and I go get one....silent stalking is the key for me...I count steps (max is 30 even on a road and I get down to as few as 1 step at a time) and always stop and do a full look and listen. they hear well so you need to be able to see farther than they can hear if you really want to succeed.

I am not saying you shouldn't sit in a blind or call and rattle but super ninja stealth mode has always worked well for me

[Wild one]

my WT hunting consists of setting up before first light in a spot I know they could be moving through to get to their bedding areas. If they move past I get one...if they take a different route I still have a pretty good idea where they went and I go get one....silent stalking is the key for me...I count steps (max is 30 even on a road and I get down to as few as 1 step at a time) and always stop and do a full look and listen. they hear well so you need to be able to see farther than they can hear if you really want to succeed.

I am not saying you shouldn't sit in a blind or call and rattle but super ninja stealth mode has always worked well for me

Conditions your hunting in are everything when it comes to what works

Now take your style of hunting and apply it to where I am hunting today your tactics won’t work. The area is miles of bush, swamp, and Muskeg. Most of the bush visibility on the ground is less than 10yards so good luck hunting from the ground. Still hunting not happening with 6 inches of crunchy snow in the bush. Deer are avoiding the 2 pipelines because they have been pounded.

You can sit on a pipeline and pray, drive around and dream, walk through the bush scaring the crap out of everything do to crunchy snow, sit under a tree or blind and hope a deer steps out within the 10yard visibility, and last option get in a stand where shooting lanes vary from 10-40yards

Most guys in BC will drive around or sit on the pipeline the deer avoid during daylight hours. Guys here do it too and get skunked

So you adapt or drive for miles looking for conditions that fit your style of hunting and hope there is good deer numbers

[tyreguy]

RyoTHC - Read the original post as the reference is to the Kootenay populations.
I hunted the Koots for the 16th straight year and we definitely saw less animals than any previous year but we got bucks. I haven't shot a doe since 2015 and i have many hunting partners who also stopped a few years back, but yet i still took 2 deer this year with a (manly) 3pt MD and 4pt WT
That being said we saw less wolf sign than previous. Saw good elk numbers with some herds with 100% calf recruitment and other herds with 0% calves which represents some of the predator issues.
Couple of years back was a deep snow winter which took its toll on the deer, couple that with a peak in preds and a generous GOS it takes its toll.
I personally prefer a LEH so the areas of excess volume can be managed rather than a GOS where its a shoot fest - nothing wrong with hunting in general open seasons but then the balance gets out in some areas its best to react early rather than later point fingers at everyone else.
Seems its time to react.

sign away and I’ll gladly keep blasting 3 WT a season including 1-2 does depending on how much tasty table fare I want. Mmmm

first tag I fill every year is a WT doe. That’s the money right there.

I guess I’m not as manly as a lot of the hunters here.

it’s hilarious that the people not shooting WT or even finding them call for a season change. Maybe you guys just don’t know how to hunt white tail? It’s not a fluke myself and my hunting partner took FIVE white tail out this season for the freezer, I personally saw dozens of WT every single putting.

But boo hoo I wasn’t able to road hunt them numbers must be down.

[sammer]

At our local head recovery spot, I think the numbers were around 600ish heads submitted. Of that around 160ish were yearlings. (heard this second hand from a reliable source)
I've noticed a huge drop in WT sighting this year compared to last.
I've been hunting the same area for a couple years now. Last year I would see 20ish does with fawns in a weekend. This year I might see 1-2 pair a day.
Last year during doe season I saw a large group camp near my area that had 20ish deer hanging on the multiple poles they had setup.
Although I like having a doe in the freezer, I'm not against ending doe season. At least for a few years to let numbers recover.

Don't even get me started on elk numbers in the Koots.

Sam

[LBM]

RyoTHC - Read the original post as the reference is to the Kootenay populations.
I hunted the Koots for the 16th straight year and we definitely saw less animals than any previous year but we got bucks. I haven't shot a doe since 2015 and i have many hunting partners who also stopped a few years back, but yet i still took 2 deer this year with a (manly) 3pt MD and 4pt WT
That being said we saw less wolf sign than previous. Saw good elk numbers with some herds with 100% calf recruitment and other herds with 0% calves which represents some of the predator issues.
Couple of years back was a deep snow winter which took its toll on the deer, couple that with a peak in preds and a generous GOS it takes its toll.
I personally prefer a LEH so the areas of excess volume can be managed rather than a GOS where its a shoot fest - nothing wrong with hunting in general open seasons but then the balance gets out in some areas its best to react early rather than later point fingers at everyone else.
Seems its time to react.

What you say is correct by just a GOS on the does it is not showing if it helps in anyway, since SSS says it was implemented to help mule deer if they had made it leh for areas were both were affected it may have shown something.
But with GOS many were taken that would have no affect on mule deer anyway.

[huntingfamily]

Reducing deer hunting regulations will have negligible affect on deer populations. WT are very resilient, unless weather is severe and prolonged.
The focus should be concentrated on access restrictions (ie road closures), habitat improvement (ie prescribed burns where needed) and most importantly, predator management.
I wonder how many of the ones complaining are at least shooting spring bears and actively hunting coyotes.
I see lots of whitetails on trail cams being predominantly nocturnal until about Nov 12 - 20 in my area. Then the bucks are showing up regularly in daylight.

[LBM]

I doubt the strong WT populations in 3/8/4/7B are effected much by the doe season. Yes there is flights in BC where they stop counting WT but this does not apply for majority of the province but for region 8 you bet this has happened. Tons of areas in BC are very low density WT populations as well and many MUs rarely see counts.

Yes most BC hunters are way behind with WT tactics compared to those areas in North America where WT is the top species targeted. This is a big factor to most being unsuccessful on WT in BC now that you are hunting pressured deer they get smart. Not going to pick a$$ because there is multiple ways to get it done but yes most BC hunters need to adapt to target WT.

Have fun boys switching to another location for the afternoon wind change

With the way you talk im surprised B.C. hunters can get anything, I guess there not as good as you Albertans, that seem to no so much about B.C. but continually complain about it.

[Wild one]

Reducing deer hunting regulations will have negligible affect on deer populations.
The focus should be concentrated on access restrictions (ie road closures), habitat improvement (ie prescribed burns where needed) and most importantly, predator management.
I wonder how many of the ones complaining are at least shooting spring bears and actively hunting coyotes.
I see lots of whitetails on trail cams being predominantly nocturnal until about Nov 12 - 20 in my area. Then the bucks are showing up regularly in daylight.

Habitat improvements are always good but not an issue for WT. Access restrictions are a waste of time and instead only concentrates pressure on accessible area do piss all for overall ungulate populations. This is a waste as far as WT are concerned

Come visit Willmore and see for yourself

[Wild one]

With the way you talk im surprised B.C. hunters can get anything, I guess there not as good as you Albertans, that seem to no so much about B.C. but continually complain about it.

Reality check for you I was born in BC spent a large part of my life hunting there too but also spent plenty of time living and hunting in Alberta too lol.

Hunters from both provinces have the strengths over each other but plain and simple WT are a way higher priority for hunters in Alberta and because of it they have put way more effort into hunting them then majority of B.C. hunters. I started hunting WT in BC and learning from Alberta deer hunters was an eye opener. Just like most Alberta hunters will fall short of most B.C. hunters in the high country hunts because there is way more focus on these hunts in B.C..

Sorry I hurt your feelings but it is what it is if you want to admit it or not

[MattB]

Reducing deer hunting regulations will have negligible affect on deer populations. WT are very resilient, unless weather is severe and prolonged.
The focus should be concentrated on access restrictions (ie road closures), habitat improvement (ie prescribed burns where needed) and most importantly, predator management.
I wonder how many of the ones complaining are at least shooting spring bears and actively hunting coyotes.
I see lots of whitetails on trail cams being predominantly nocturnal until about Nov 12 - 20 in my area. Then the bucks are showing up regularly in daylight.

Couldn't agree more!

[RyoTHC]

RyoTHC - Read the original post as the reference is to the Kootenay populations.
I hunted the Koots for the 16th straight year and we definitely saw less animals than any previous year but we got bucks. I haven't shot a doe since 2015 and i have many hunting partners who also stopped a few years back, but yet i still took 2 deer this year with a (manly) 3pt MD and 4pt WT
That being said we saw less wolf sign than previous. Saw good elk numbers with some herds with 100% calf recruitment and other herds with 0% calves which represents some of the predator issues.
Couple of years back was a deep snow winter which took its toll on the deer, couple that with a peak in preds and a generous GOS it takes its toll.
I personally prefer a LEH so the areas of excess volume can be managed rather than a GOS where its a shoot fest - nothing wrong with hunting in general open seasons but then the balance gets out in some areas its best to react early rather than later point fingers at everyone else.
Seems its time to react.


I went on one hunting trip to zone 4, for 2.5 days. Passed on 3 bucks and atleast two dozen does.

Again, this isn’t a population issue it’s a hunter issue. These are not mule deer and even the people that claim that they know how to hunt white tail, when I actually speak to them they are just recycling mule deer tactics or aimlessly walking /driving around and hoping for the best.

it’s by no mistake I can drive into an area I’ve never been, look at the terrain and feed available and find the white tails each and every time.

are there areas that have lower numbers than others? Absolutely. But there is so much whining and crying about the doe seasons and it’s not the reason people aren’t seeing deer lol

you B.C. folk need to take a step back and re evaluate how and when you hunt if you want to consistently be successful with whitetail.

it’s more likely that elk hunters are going to have more success finding and hunting white tails as some / a lot of the same tactics will apply. They travel the same ways, stick to cover in the same ways, habitually travel the same route etc.

if you have hunted mule deer you’re entire career you’re going to have a real tough time transferring to white tails.

[Wild one]

RoyTHC do you want to come teach me how to hunt WT :mrgreen:

I think I forgot how lol

[#49]

Quick question for the WT experts can you explain why there a very few deer sightings or road kills anymore in 4 arent these a good indication of population?I haved lived in the WK my whole life on the road every day and see very little

[HarryToolips]

myself and everyone in my hunting party. White tail doe is our first big game target each year, then we move to MD bucks then WT bucks. There is no hesitation from any of us to drop that second doe as well if we are limited in time and we will continue to do so. I hunted zone 3 and 8 this season and I’m talking 50+ hunting days, not just your frustrated weekend warrior and guess what, I saw MORE white tail than mule deer over the entirety of the season. Zone 8 and 3 included.

it makes me laugh so so so hard when I see anyone on this forum complaining about not finding WT or the populations. I have ran into HUNDREDS of WT within a 2 hour drive of my house this season. They are EVERYWHERE if you can actually figure them out and aren’t too lazy to put in the effort.

I hole heartedly believe even half the people on here that “claim” they are getting out of the truck and spending the time to hunt WT are not. They half ass it get frustrated and quit. Also, how many of you guys can tell the difference between MD and WT sign? They act very differently and it’s distinctive more often than not.
Well that's good to hear...this year I've seen a lot of MD and not as much WT, that being said I have seen them just not quite as much (but I also just missed a crankier WT last weekend, stupid mistake)...very good to hear they're doing so well in your area...

[HarryToolips]

my WT hunting consists of setting up before first light in a spot I know they could be moving through to get to their bedding areas. If they move past I get one...if they take a different route I still have a pretty good idea where they went and I go get one....silent stalking is the key for me...I count steps (max is 30 even on a road and I get down to as few as 1 step at a time) and always stop and do a full look and listen. they hear well so you need to be able to see farther than they can hear if you really want to succeed.

I am not saying you shouldn't sit in a blind or call and rattle but super ninja stealth mode has always worked well for me
I hear ya, it's my favourite way to hunt them...

[Islandeer]

Yes, while slinking along, if you are not spotting squirrels early then your not hunting well. Stop, slow down, hunt tree to tree, lean and look for 5 to 30 mins, slowly move into it again. Be a tree. See them first.

[Norwestalta]

Quick question for the WT experts can you explain why there a very few deer sightings or road kills anymore in 4 arent these a good indication of population?I haved lived in the WK my whole life on the road every day and see very little

Not a expert by any means but the rut seems late this year. I don't know what it was like ten years ago in your area but here in my area it would be nothing to see 100+ deer in a tour around the block. To many deer imo.

[Wild one]

Not a expert by any means but the rut seems late this year. I don't know what it was like ten years ago in your area but here in my area it would be nothing to see 100+ deer in a tour around the block. To many deer imo.

I have been seeing good rut activity since the 10th and in the last few days bucks have put in less effort into keeping their scrape lines fresh. From the 19th till the 25th was banging here and slowed the last few days not as good but weather could be a roll in it

A lot of bucks hit the dirt this past weekend to your south so maybe the GP deer decided just to cancel the rut this year or go south.

[Norwestalta]

I have been seeing good rut activity since the 10th and in the last few days bucks have put in less effort into keeping their scrape lines fresh. From the 19th till the 25th was banging here and slowed the last few days not as good but weather could be a roll in it

A lot of bucks hit the dirt this past weekend to your south so maybe the GP deer decided just to cancel the rut this year or go south.

Hot and heavy the last week. Tough hunting with the wind though. -20 the last couple of days and I've been at work when I should be hunting. I seen more 130" to 150" bucks this year then the last five years combined. I'm excited for next year. I think we'll have a helluva buck crop.

[Wild one]

Hot and heavy the last week. Tough hunting with the wind though. -20 the last couple of days and I've been at work when I should be hunting. I seen more 130" to 150" bucks this year then the last five years combined. I'm excited for next year. I think we'll have a helluva buck crop.

At the end of the day I ate my tag but passed on lots of bucks and missed a solid 170+ buck. My picky ness and choking when I had my chance is the only reason. Good season but I definitely had to work to find the few big bucks I did.

It will take a bit to get used to the new stomping grounds

[Norwestalta]

At the end of the day I ate my tag but passed on lots of bucks and missed a solid 170+ buck. My picky ness and choking when I had my chance is the only reason. Good season but I definitely had to work to find the few big bucks I did.

It will take a bit to get used to the new stomping grounds

I did to. Not much of a deer eater lol. My nephew shot a pretty nice one but his G2 was broke off at the beam. My buddy shot one but it had a little ground shrinkage. All in all I thought the numbers were looking positive.

[GreyDog]

I walk most every day, year-round, in an area within a five mile radius of my house. In peak years, I would see a dozen whitetails or more each day. Now, I see oneor two and , many days, none at all. Mule deer are doing better, elk are way down. This in pretty good area in 4-3. GD

[Wild one]

Oh forget it all the WT are gone everyone stop hunting them they are too fragile

[HarryToolips]

I walk most every day, year-round, in an area within a five mile radius of my house. In peak years, I would see a dozen whitetails or more each day. Now, I see oneor two and , many days, none at all. Mule deer are doing better, elk are way down. This in pretty good area in 4-3. GD
How hard was your winter and snowpack last year?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

\

Mule deer are doing great showing up areas were they have been absent for years.


I walk most every day, year-round, in an area within a five mile radius of my house. In peak years, I would see a dozen whitetails or more each day. Now, I see oneor two and , many days, none at all. Mule deer are doing better, elk are way down. This in pretty good area in 4-3. GD

Thats good to hear about the mule deer.

I wonder if the OP has observed the same?

SSS

[wolfpack]

Thought I’d chime in as I own a large section of land on the Granby River. Over the last five years the numbers on my property have significantly declined. I used to able to drive my property and see a minimum of 10-15 deer at any one time. This year I was lucky to see one or two. I’ve traditionally allowed one deer shot a year on my property (preferably by a first time hunter) but this year I couldn’t bring myself to killing the only buck that I saw.

[Ourea]

Some interesting and diverse opinions on this topic.
Are some areas seeing a drop in WT numbers, that's a given.
Are some areas still holding or increasing in numbers, absolutely.
Are WT expanding into new areas such as Kamloops, absolutely.

So, why the sudden drop in certain areas? I find it amusing when us hunters instantly default to REGULATIONS ARE TO BLAME despite these species being the most studied animal in North America with endless science and data that shines light on population fluctuations.

Here are a few of the quantified drivers that hack WT numbers down dramatically in short order.
1) Winter survival
2) Predation

Hunting is so far down the list it is of minimal short term consequence. Disagree but facts are facts and opinions are just that.

My area sucked this season

[Ourea]

So, as a guy that spends a lot of time in the field yr round I see quite a bit more than the weekend warrior.
I saw less WT being picked up on cam in 2018 compared to 2017. 2019 saw a significant drop from 2018.

I always preach to newer hunters that the key to success is understanding habitat and then know the inventory as best you can. When you have a good understanding of the game in a given target area you are well on your way.

An example of that understanding would be a guy that runs say 5 to 10 trail cams.
Thru quantified trail cam data he has a pretty solid knowledge of the number of does, annual fawn recruitment, number of bucks in that area, who the bucks are to the point you start giving names to them. He would also understand the ebbs and flows of inventory throughout a 365 yr cycle. He could then compare his yr to yr observations. He's not a rd hunter, he's adapting to WT habits as they change quickly with hunting pressure.

That type of information becomes far more than simple opinion, its documentation.

So, here are a few things I observed the last 2 yrs in my local area.
- WT numbers dropped in 2018
- WT numbers dropped further in 2019
- Few less does, few less bucks.
- Recruitment remained near 100% with many does sporting twins and a few with triplets.
- i saw less does in the spring and summer of 2018 compared to what I had on cam in Nov/Dec 2017.
- There is no doe season (other than yth in Nov) from when I was seeing consistent numbers to a significant drop over the course of a winter.
- I heard the rare gunshot while sitting during doe season both in 2018 and 19.
- No slaughter going on when you hear a max of 1/2 a dozen shots all season.
- We had multiple 4 to 8 yr old bucks inventoried that made it thru rifle and bow season in 2018
- I had ZERO bucks over 4 yrs of age on cam this spring, summer and fall where normally I always have bucks on interest.


So, here's my observation.
There was a drop in both bucks and doe population from post season until the spring.
What happened to both bucks and doe numbers and what caused for the population drop over the winter when there is no hunting season?

Doe and buck season was not a factor in the decline of numbers from dec to april!!!!!

So the question is what happened from dec to april, where did those deer go.
The answer is obvious, they either left the area or they are dead.
If they are dead what killed them.

We could look at this quantified information and focus on what are the drivers for declines when there is no lawful season.
Or, just simply blame regulations with no data to back it up.

WT will always rebound quickly so if their numbers are declining in some areas from post season to the next preseason, we know bullets or regulations did not kill those deer during that course of time

[todbartell]

good post Ourea!

[roymil]

Interesting for sure, my cameras showed a marked increase in WT numbers over 2017 and 2018 , guess it depends what area your camera is in. When hunter harvest accounts for approximately 10% of WT mortality something else is accounting for 90%. Hunter harvest is not the reason WT are down , maybe the odd predator haha.

[Ourea]

Interesting for sure, my cameras showed a marked increase in WT numbers over 2017 and 2018 , guess it depends what area your camera is in. When hunter harvest accounts for approximately 10% of WT mortality something else is accounting for 90%. Hunter harvest is not the reason WT are down , maybe the odd predator haha.

Here we go, facts and data!!


It is no mystery that every region, area and micro area has different influences affecting wildlife.

No one shot 40% of the does and 60% of the bucks I have been observing over the years this previous winter after hunting season.

[Wild one]

Old man winter is what dictates the numbers with WT most and most I would say know this. I have observed pockets seemingly go dead over pressure and not always hunting or predators. If industrial activity ramps up or constant disturbance 4x4/ATV for example they often move. Predators are a no brainer what your getting

Sometimes lack of sighting/cam pic/sign is a change in population other times it’s a change that caused the deers habits to change.

Some of the recent winter likely have impacted some areas. Add in the increase in hunting pressure on WT changing there habits is probably making it seem more dramatic then it is.

[hoochie]

Here are a few of the quantified drivers that hack WT numbers down dramatically in short order.
1) Winter survival
2) Predation



Is this to suggest that WT cannot survive the same winter as a MD, or that they are for some reason more likely to become prey than a MD? There are plenty of MD where I used to find WT.

[Shikari300WSM]

Is this to suggest that WT cannot survive the same winter as a MD, or that they are for some reason more likely to become prey than a MD? There are plenty of MD where I used to find WT.

I've found whitetail sheds in areas where I was sinking to my waist in snow. They stay quite high sometimes. Gotta wonder if they get stuck up high and succumb to winter's woes. Of course there are predator issues but I personally think that winters of 2016/17 and 17/18 were pretty bad to the point it drove the population down.

[Norwestalta]

I've found whitetail sheds in areas where I was sinking to my waist in snow. They stay quite high sometimes. Gotta wonder if they get stuck up high and succumb to winter's woes. Of course there are predator issues but I personally think that winters of 2016/17 and 17/18 were pretty bad to the point it drove the population down.

Typically what I've found in a high snow level year is that the elk will break trail and the deer will follow. The elk will also bare off some of their feeding areas which help the deer. The worst scenario for deer is a lot of snow then warm weather that'll build a hard crust on the snow. This is real bad in Nov/Dec when the bucks are done the rut and taking on the groceries.

[WhiteTailAB]

I took a WT buck back to AB with me in Oct.... :) There was still a 3x3 in that spot that was spared. lol

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Ourea- you’re talking nonsense. Everyone knows that BC is filled with a superior strain of human hunters and that our subspecies of whitetail are the dumbest on the planet.;)
Well, at least some people think that.:?

SSS

[Ourea]

^^^^^
Funny stuff right there, love it

[bigben]

Some interesting and diverse opinions on this topic.
Are some areas seeing a drop in WT numbers, that's a given.
Are some areas still holding or increasing in numbers, absolutely.
Are WT expanding into new areas such as Kamloops, absolutely.

So, why the sudden drop in certain areas? I find it amusing when us hunters instantly default to REGULATIONS ARE TO BLAME despite these species being the most studied animal in North America with endless science and data that shines light on population fluctuations.

Here are a few of the quantified drivers that hack WT numbers down dramatically in short order.
1) Winter survival
2) Predation

Hunting is so far down the list it is of minimal short term consequence. Disagree but facts are facts and opinions are just that.

My area sucked this season
Great observation partner like your common sense , it was a tough year for us here too

[Deer_Slayer]

They disappeared to Richmond, along with bears, elk, moose and any other edible animal.

[SemperAurum]

They disappeared to Richmond, along with bears, elk, moose and any other edible animal.

What a stupid, racist comment.

Whitetail numbers down in my home area also. No hunters from Richmond. No big bad Indians shooting all the dos and fawns.

Lots of bears, cougars, and wolvses

[tigrr]

I spend a lot of time in the bush. For 2 years 6 wolves were an issue and we had 1 big male cougar. A trapper got 5 of the 6 and someone got the cougar. The deer population is bouncing back a bit. 3 years ago I would see 1 to 3 deer a year. Today I see 15 a year. I found bull moose skulls close to where the cougar hung out. 3 big bull moose skulls.
118 inches of snow doesn't help deer either.
I think predators have a major impact on deer populations. 6 wolves could eat a deer a week or more. Then a guy sets up a trail cam by a coyote den and watches the male bring back 24 deer fawns to the pups. I watched a black bear search a grassy hill side because it saw a doe lead her fawn there and leave it. The black bear actually found a black bear cub and killed it instead. Its cool living in the bush.

[Islandeer]

They were here long before we were, dodging wolves bears and cats of the super large variety. So think hard, really hard, they have been naturally selected and have evolved into the toughest and most resilient of the deer family, and they will continue to endure and adapt.

All this talk about whitetails being eliminated is complete drivel.

[SemperAurum]

I spend a lot of time in the bush. For 2 years 6 wolves were an issue and we had 1 big male cougar. A trapper got 5 of the 6 and someone got the cougar. The deer population is bouncing back a bit. 3 years ago I would see 1 to 3 deer a year. Today I see 15 a year. I found bull moose skulls close to where the cougar hung out. 3 big bull moose skulls.
118 inches of snow doesn't help deer either.
I think predators have a major impact on deer populations. 6 wolves could eat a deer a week or more. Then a guy sets up a trail cam by a coyote den and watches the male bring back 24 deer fawns to the pups. I watched a black bear search a grassy hill side because it saw a doe lead her fawn there and leave it. The black bear actually found a black bear cub and killed it instead. Its cool living in the bush.


You are infested with blacks and grizzlys around there. I might switch things up this spring and come up and hammer some with the gang. We used to enjoy pounding them at Mackay River in June.