BCWF to push for CROSSBOW BAN

[Foxton Gundogs]

I just received this from a member of another site who is a BCWF member of Region 2. The Region 2 meeting last Wed. night I come to find out the President and Vice President, BCWF Region 2 have taken upon themselves to put forward a resolution to BAN ALL CROSSBOWS, for HUNTING. I was under the impression the BCWF was for creating MORE hunting opportunities, NOT taking them away. this will only serve to drive a wedge between hunters when we need to stand united and work together against outside forces bent on destroying out sport, not attack it from within. SPEAK UP LET YOUR FEELINGS KNOWN

[Gateholio]

What did he say when you spoke to/emailed him?

I will get vocal as soon as I see something official and confirmed.

[Big Lew]

I tried to send an email to that address but my email system doesn’t recognize it

[Ride Red]

Hopefully something comes out soon.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Big Lew, I just spoke to the BCWF member who sent me the information and revised the post with another email address he gave me.

[emerson]

If this is true, we sure aren’t helping ourselves.

[boxhitch]

So far that is someones personal agenda and somehow FG you manage to blame the Fed for the idea
great

[Jagermeister]

This is the content of the message I sent to Mr McDonald.

I have learned that you and the vice-president of BCWF Region 2 have taken it upon yourselves to forward a resolution to the BC Wildlife Federation to ban crossbows for hunting. I would wonder how you and your other executive member came to arrive at such an asinine resolution? Have you ever shot a crossbow? I would also like to know if you put this to the regions board members for a vote or did you just conjure this up between yourselves?

I adamantly oppose such a resolution. As an elderly archer, I recently switched to a crossbow after decades of using regular recurve and compound bow.
This switch was necessitated due to shoulder injury. There are many like myself that have taken to crossbows so that we can continue in the pursuit of archery. Now you want to curtail this in your own selfish way.

I will be forwarding a text of this email to the BC Wildlife Federation board to register my contempt of this absurd notion.

[gutpile]

Hard to believe if true !

[Treed]

I’m sceptically optimistic it’s a misunderstanding.

[Wild one]

So is it someone in the BCWF putting forward proportion to ban xbows from bow season or all seasons? If it’s to have them removed from bow season I am not surprised because there is definitely people against the use in bow season

if it’s an over all xbow ban someone is pushing for that is stupid. It is no secret I am no fan of the BCWF but I would recommend people ask ? or wait for more information before getting the pitchfork

[338win mag]

Crossbow ban?? ....wtf for?.... reason??
Why not just ban all hunting.

[fearnodeer]

They are not banning crossbows but re-classifying them, they want them to be put under riffles, which does take them out of bow season, I for one will not vote for this. Hope this clarifies things, and this has not been passed yet.

[dougan]

Stop renewing your memberships to bcwf. Becoming nothing but raincoats 2.0. Cut off the head of the snake.

[digger dogger]

Just got my renewal, recently.
I’ll be waiting to renew, to see what happens here.
If true, that’s pretty shitty for those of us that can’t pull back a bow string.
I’ve dislocated my pull shoulder 3 times, and the surgery was a dud.
Another wedge between hunters. Sickening if this is true bcwf.

[Rackmastr]

I am never surprised about the motions put forward by Region 2 in my past experiences.

[limit time]

Crossbow ban?? ....wtf for?.... reason??
Why not just ban all hunting.

Don’t worry it’s coming. And (f_ck the BCWF)

[limit time]

They are not banning crossbows but re-classifying them, they want them to be put under riffles, which does take them out of bow season, I for one will not vote for this. Hope this clarifies things, and this has not been passed yet.

They sound like government.... “it’s not a ban, it’s a buy back”...... this makes me sick...I’m glad you are not voting for this crap.

[Foxton Gundogs]

This information came from a long time BCWF Region 2 Member who was in attendance. The only possible error in this post is Apparently the resolution was only put forward and not passed, which the OP mentions and they are not trying to "Ban" crossbows but In the presidents own words "only have them removed from the archery season"(same thing in my books) I reposted the above because This attack(any attack) on legal hunting methods by any group is wrong. I suggest any BCWF Region 2 members obtain a copy of the minutes of the Nov. meeting the information should be there.

[limit time]

If we can’t stand together on this !?!? To hell with bcwf and hunting in bc .... give it all to the natives.

[limit time]

This information came from a long time BCWF Region 2 Member who was in attendance. The only possible error in this post is Apparently the resolution was only put forward and not passed, which the OP mentions and they are not trying to "Ban" crossbows but In the presidents own words "only have them removed from the archery season"(same thing in my books) I reposted the above because This attack(any attack) on legal hunting methods by any group is wrong. I suggest any BCWF Region 2 members obtain a copy of the minutes of the Nov. meeting the information should be there.

F- that guy. Can he be impeached?

[markt308]

There are many states and provinces that don’t allow crossbows during archery season. Looks like I’ll get some flack for saying this but I know myself and many other bow hunters would have no problem at all with banning crossbows during archery season

[Foxton Gundogs]

So here is an E-mail from BCWF region 2 President "clarifying" the resolution on crossbows. My apologies for relating a couple of facts "slightly" wrong. IMHO it doesn't change much. A ban on crossbows in archery season is effectively a ban on crossbow hunting. The Federal Government wants our firearms, the Provincial Government wants to end hunting and now the BCWF Reg. 2 upper executive want to take away yet another hunting opportunity. Again sorry for the slight error in my OP. This is not an assault on the BCWF it is an assault on yet another attack on our sport. Make up your own minds .

Thanks for the email. Unfortunately, in the original post there are some facts that are not correct. So I’ll answer your email and correct things and give you some background.
The post on Facebook was incorrect in saying that I wanted a ban on crossbows. This is wrong. The resolution I am putting forward was to propose the removal of crossbows from the archery season. NOT for an outright ban on them. I would never propose such a thing. My proposed resolution would have crossbows moved to the regular season. Nothing more.
My reasoning behind the proposal is this. Crossbow technology has advanced very rapidly even in just the last few years. With IBO speeds of upwards of 400 fps and the ability to incorporate scopes onto the platform, modern crossbows are a far cry from just a few years ago. Kill shots of upwards of 100 yards are now very possible. This makes them distinctly more powerful and capable than any other archery technology. And just as capable as a shotgun shooting a slug.
This is a far cry from archery as it was first incorporated into the Wildlife Act. And puts a crossbow shooter at a very distinct advantage over someone using traditional or recurve equipment or even most compound bows. This change has already been made in Alberta. So I’m not proposing to reinvent the wheel.
I knew that this resolution would bring up some good discussion and there would be people that would disagree. That kind of discussion is healthy. And I don’t even know if it will get past our regional AGM coming up. I do understand your concerns about physical ability to draw a bow. I’m an archer/bowhunter myself and have rotator cuff issues that are starting to haunt me in my early 50’s.
The last thing I want to do is be one of “those people” proposing blanket changes to hunting these days. I’ve spent far too many years fighting for our hunting rights. I wanted to have a decent discussion about a reasonable proposal. If there are other questions I can answer please feel free to email back.

[Foxton Gundogs]

There are many states and provinces that don’t allow crossbows during archery season. Looks like I’ll get some flack for saying this but I know myself and many other bow hunters would have no problem at all with banning crossbows during archery season

And traditional bow hunters could say the same about compound bows with hi tech add ons. An attack on legal hunting is an attack on hunting period.

[limit time]

There are many states and provinces that don’t allow crossbows during archery season. Looks like I’ll get some flack for saying this but I know myself and many other bow hunters would have no problem at all with banning crossbows during archery season

And I would say compound bows also. The speed and technology is way to advanced also. The Omen, Evo, bowtech rpm 360..... and you can have sights also !

[limit time]

So here is an E-mail from BCWF region 2 President "clarifying" the resolution on crossbows. My apologies for relating a couple of facts "slightly" wrong. IMHO it doesn't change much. A ban on crossbows in archery season is effectively a ban on crossbow hunting. The Federal Government wants our firearms, the Provincial Government wants to end hunting and now the BCWF Reg. 2 upper executive want to take away yet another hunting opportunity. Again sorry for the slight error in my OP. This is not an assault on the BCWF it is an assault on yet another attack on our sport. Make up your own minds .

Thanks for the email. Unfortunately, in the original post there are some facts that are not correct. So I’ll answer your email and correct things and give you some background.
The post on Facebook was incorrect in saying that I wanted a ban on crossbows. This is wrong. The resolution I am putting forward was to propose the removal of crossbows from the archery season. NOT for an outright ban on them. I would never propose such a thing. My proposed resolution would have crossbows moved to the regular season. Nothing more.
My reasoning behind the proposal is this. Crossbow technology has advanced very rapidly even in just the last few years. With IBO speeds of upwards of 400 fps and the ability to incorporate scopes onto the platform, modern crossbows are a far cry from just a few years ago. Kill shots of upwards of 100 yards are now very possible. This makes them distinctly more powerful and capable than any other archery technology. And just as capable as a shotgun shooting a slug.
This is a far cry from archery as it was first incorporated into the Wildlife Act. And puts a crossbow shooter at a very distinct advantage over someone using traditional or recurve equipment or even most compound bows. This change has already been made in Alberta. So I’m not proposing to reinvent the wheel.
I knew that this resolution would bring up some good discussion and there would be people that would disagree. That kind of discussion is healthy. And I don’t even know if it will get past our regional AGM coming up. I do understand your concerns about physical ability to draw a bow. I’m an archer/bowhunter myself and have rotator cuff issues that are starting to haunt me in my early 50’s.
The last thing I want to do is be one of “those people” proposing blanket changes to hunting these days. I’ve spent far too many years fighting for our hunting rights. I wanted to have a decent discussion about a reasonable proposal. If there are other questions I can answer please feel free to email back.

derp....derp....derp.....”I don’t want to be those people” ?? You are those people !

[Islandeer]

Divide and conquer.
what would be his next conquest?

What are his real unspoken motivations behind such a measure?

There are other unfair harvests happening in Our province at night, in parks,unregulated, on private land, that require more attention than this chicken shit proposal.

[Gateholio]

Thankfully this is just one BCWF members opinion, not the opinion of the BCWF as a whole, and this resolution is unlikely to get much traction with the rest of the BCWF members and regions.

[goatdancer]

Seems to be a lot of bashing of the BCWF as a whole because of the opinion of one member. Pretty sad.

[limit time]

Seems to be a lot of bashing of the BCWF as a whole because of the opinion of one member. Pretty sad.

One bad idea can spread like a disease, look at the black rifles vs fudd guns....

[Gateholio]

Seems to be a lot of bashing of the BCWF as a whole because of the opinion of one member. Pretty sad.

Some people like to create lots of drama. The title of this thread should be "One guy wants to remove crossbows from bow season"

[RyoTHC]

And traditional bow hunters could say the same about compound bows with hi tech add ons. An attack on legal hunting is an attack on hunting period.



THIS!

This is NO different than the antis saying we don’t NEED semi autos to hunt, they are just trying to divide and conquer. ANY hunter that supports ANY kind of ban on ANY legal season or method of harvest should re evaluate his/her position on hunting or stop trying to put his/her own ethics or morales on anyone else that’s hunting.

a bow is a bow is a bow.

just like

a gun is a gun is a gun.

give your ****ing heads a shake people.

[ACB]

It's the rational behind such an idea that I don't get, "oh a crossbow has a scope so it can be very accurate" ya for 40-50 yards, I own a crossbow and I wouldn't even attempt a longer shot on game no matter how much I practiced. I would love to shoot other bow type's but after injuries to shoulders and arm's I physically can't, but with a cocking aid I can shoot and hunt with a crossbow. The argument that oh well other provinces already have this such as Alberta, they also bait bears too, we don't. To me, it's no different that what the Fly fishermen say about gear chucker's, same argument. Long bow or Recurve hunters and shooters have the same opinions about compound bows with their sights as what compound bow users say about crossbows. I just hope the BCWF understand that they represent all B.C. hunters and fishermen not just their membership and not to try to limit hunting and fishing opportunities.

[Island Idiots]

A motion such as this should be out of order. If the BCWF had proper bylaws and a constitution that upheld hunters rights this motion would not be considered. This is the best example that the BCWF is not a hunter organization but a wildlife organization something that many hunters get confused.

[rocksteady]

Crossbows have the same distance restrictions as compounds.. i have no idea why there is such a hatred for them.. provincially, how many animals are taken with x bows, potentially removing that game from the ecosystem for the "archers"- compound and recurve guys??

[rocksteady]

I own and shoot an x bow due to being on in years and have abused my body with work and sports.. i am lucky if i shoot 1 animal every 5 years with it.. i dont think that makes it a conservation concern tool.. just hatred between hunters using different tools

[RyoTHC]

I own and shoot an x bow due to being on in years and have abused my body with work and sports.. i am lucky if i shoot 1 animal every 5 years with it.. i dont think that makes it a conservation concern tool.. just hatred between hunters using different tools


BINGO.
just a few upset that other people put in “less effort” than them to see success, same as the people who complain about road hunters... little do most people know if you know an area and are willing to hike road hunters are a huge benefit !

just like everyone slinging arrows is a huge benefit because they have to pass on way more game than someone with a rifle does! I can whole heartedly tell you that if i was restricted to a bow, I would have never had a chance at 80 percent of my animals and the remaining 20 percent would be questionable at best.

[huntcoop]

Perhaps this thread should get a new title.

[Walking Buffalo]

These proposals are always much easier to kill when very young.
Waiting for "official" status is not a good idea.

Besides offering a reasoning that "a crossbow shooter (is)" at a very distinct advantage over someone using traditional or recurve equipment or even most compound bows.",

is there a conservation or allocation concern associated to the use of crossbows during the archery season?
If not, then the proposal is on very thin ice....


Quitting the BCWF may very well be a good decision, however it may be a very poor decision if the BCWF maintains their position as the voice of Resident hunters.
Be careful to not leave the fox in charge when leaving your hen house....

[Keta1969]

A motion such as this should be out of order. If the BCWF had proper bylaws and a constitution that upheld hunters rights this motion would not be considered. This is the best example that the BCWF is not a hunter organization but a wildlife organization something that many hunters get confused.

This is not a BCWF resolution . This is one member of region 2 putting it forward to be voted on. If it passes at their meeting it goes on to the BCWF meeting to be voted on. The title of this thread is misleading to say the least. Bashing the BCWF is a little premature in this case. They haven't passed anything.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Some people like to create lots of drama. The title of this thread should be "One guy wants to remove crossbows from bow season"

Seriously, it's 2 guys spear heading this and those 2 just happen to be President and Vice President of the BCWF Region 2, this is not drama, it is an assault on all forums of hunting. Maybe it is not your preferred method of hunting but that should make no difference, yours could be next.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

[limit time]

Seriously, it's 2 guys spear heading this and those 2 just happen to be President and Vice President of the BCWF Region 2, this is not drama, it is an assault on all forums of hunting. Maybe it is not your preferred method of hunting but that should make no difference, yours could be next.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Now it’s two people ?? And the top two in reg 2 !? This is going to get good .

[Foxton Gundogs]

The post I shared(OP) did say it was the President AND the Vice President. It was always 2 people. And as for the title of this thread if mods want to change the thread title and Ad Region 2, to it I have no problem with that I tried but it only affected my first post.

[Hunter gatherer]

Death of a thousand cuts. Personally I couldn't care less if someone uses a crossbow. These two that proposed this should be punted. As hunters we should all stick together or it will end.

[Marsh Hawk]

Time to put this to bed.


Being as we are all adults, I decided that it was time for us to have an adult conversation about the use of crossbows. No one can deny that crossbow technology has evolved very rapidly in the last 20 years. And is very different from most other archery technologies out there. Coupled with today’s optics, a crossbow today is far more capable than those of even 10 years ago. This regulation change has already been established in Alberta so I was not proposing anything new.


What I wanted to do here was start a conversation. Not ban anything or take away anyone’s right to hunt. Those that know me know that I’ve fought for hunter access in Delta and the Fraser Valley for most of my life.


I just find it sad that we cannot have a real conversation about something these days without everyone getting their panties in a bunch. As this shit storm has progressed, I’ve decided that I will not be proposing this resolution at the Region 2 AGM next weekend. It’s dead. Seems as though free speech and open discussion are as well.

Jim Fox (Foxton Gundogs) you of all people have been around long enough to know this is NOT how procedure is supposed to work around resolutions coming to the table. Usually what happens is that a resolution comes forward and gets discussed (both for and against) and then it gets voted on. This shouldn’t be happening in the court of social media as it quickly becomes a circus. Shame on you for the way you’ve handled this Jim.


I’m out.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Sorry Mark but when I find out some organization or individuals are even suggesting they may come after my hunting opportunities I am going to come back after them every bit as hard. The shame is yours and Dennis' for even contemplating such a blow against legal hunting opportunities. I have no shame in opposing actions I think are wrong. Nothing personal just "business" so to speak.

[Ron.C]

I have to agree with Foxton 100% on this one.

This is a very slippery slope. Start talking crossbows, increased technology, then whats next??? Scoped repeating bolt action rifles.

If crossbows mean more hunter participation then we'd be foolish to even consider their ammending their use in BC. I dont give a rats ass what other states and provinces do.

Bowhunting is a great management tool, lets keep the elitism out of it and do whatever we can to put more hunters in the field during archery seasons

[Mulehahn]

I dont own a crossbow, but do own a compound bow. I find the argument about technological advancements very odd. Why is it not applied to everything? I got my first compound in 2008 for a hobby, not so much for hunting. I picked up a new one this year. I can honestly say the advancements over the last decade are incredible. The new speeds, reduced weights, accuracy... i have no doubt that crossbows have advanced just as much but i find it hard to believe that they still have the same range restrictions, are not as portable, and still require extensive movement to shoulder and aim. If the FLNRO or a private enterprise has done a study and shown that harvest during archery season is unsustainable* then I may change my mind, but until I see that study I do not see a need for the ban.

*should the harvest during the first 10 days of september be unsustainable I would argue for a 5 day youth season until the 5 followed by a 10 day bow season until the 15 with a general season to follow before I would argue for a ban on a person's preferred method of harvest

[Jagermeister]

There are many states and provinces that don’t allow crossbows during archery season. Looks like I’ll get some flack for saying this but I know myself and many other bow hunters would have no problem at all with banning crossbows during archery season
Cut the bullshit. You want to ban crossbows from the archery season. I say, ban compound bows from the archery season because they are the most recent innovation in archery. Crossbows have been dated back to the Zhou Dynasty five to seven centuries BCE

Those that push that agenda probably have never shot a crossbow and think that there is a distinct advantage for crossbows. There is in fact one advantage. That is on the first shot and first shot only. A regular archer has improved odds because from the time the first arrow/bolt is fired, the time it takes to ready another bolt for a crossbow, a regular archer can release three or more arrows. The only advantage a crossbow might have is the sighting arrangement and perhaps a small distance advantage and moot considering the extreme long shots attempted by the new generation hunter, be he an archer or rifleman. Kinetic energy is pretty well equal between bows and crossbows because of shaft length of bolts and arrows.

And as far as states and provinces that don’t allow crossbows during archery season. That will change as more and more archers age and find that crossbows are a viable alternative and will start to lobby the respective government wildlife agencies to include crossbows in archery season.

[Citori54]

There are many states and provinces that don’t allow crossbows during archery season. Looks like I’ll get some flack for saying this but I know myself and many other bow hunters would have no problem at all with banning crossbows during archery season

Can't believe your position on this. You come off as a pure elitist. Due to age and shoulder issues, I can no longer draw a bow, but could use a crossbow. How dare you suggest limiting my ability to take part in hunting during the bow season. This elitist crap makes my blood boil.

[john.b]

Sorry Mark, but I have to agree wholeheartedly with Jim on this. Your claim that crossbows have had such vast advancements in technology over the past 20 years is preposterous. Most hunting equipment has, guns, optics, range finders, game cams, camouflage, COMPOUND BOWS... When I see videos of people like Cameron Hanes shooting tight 5 shout groups at 160yds with a compound bow, I think you need to re-evaluate your stance but I am glad you came to your senses. I would like to commend Foxton for bringing this discussion to the forum and happy it gained some traction.
Sorry Mark but when I find out some organization or individuals are even suggesting they may come after my hunting opportunities I am going to come back after them every bit as hard. The shame is yours and Dennis' for even contemplating such a blow against legal hunting opportunities. I have no shame in opposing actions I think are wrong. Nothing personal just "business" so to speak.

[willyqbc]

Crossbow technology has advanced very rapidly even in just the last few years. With IBO speeds of upwards of 400 fps and the ability to incorporate scopes onto the platform, modern crossbows are a far cry from just a few years ago. Kill shots of upwards of 100 yards are now very possible. This makes them distinctly more powerful and capable than any other archery technology. And just as capable as a shotgun shooting a slug.
This is a far cry from archery as it was first incorporated into the Wildlife Act. And puts a crossbow shooter at a very distinct advantage over someone using traditional or recurve equipment or even most compound bows.

Marsh Hawk, in the spirit of respectful dialogue, I would like to counter your assertions as I believe them to be wrong.

1st off let me say, myself and family have been involved in archery in this province for many years, competing at the highest levels. It is my experience that leads me to the following arguments to counter your assertions

1. Crossbow bolts being shorter than conventional arrows tend to be much less efficient in flight, and bleed off speed and energy faster than conventional arrows. much like a heavy high ballistic co-efficient bullet will overtake a lighter faster bullet downrange, so too, the conventional arrow will carry lethal energy/speed farther than a crossbow bolt. The crossbow will enjoy a speed/energy advantage up close, while the advantage swings to the compound bow the farther out you go.

2. we have competed in at least a dozen 3D archery national championships, some of those even allowed a crossbow category. The one I recall clearly at the moment was held in Ontario. Being interested in these arguments as I'd heard them before, I paid very close attention to the leaderboards. The scoped crossbow division's highest scores wouldn't have been top 10 in the mens open category, it would have been 7th in bowhunter unlimited (pins). I can assure you, crossbows hold no accuracy advantage over a conventional compound bow in the hands of a skilled shooter.

the only advantage a x-bow holds, is the ability to not have to draw in the presence of your quarry.

In any event, I agree with many others who have posted that this sort of proposal if realized would be an unnecessary removal of opportunity, and I'm glad you will not be moving forward with it.

Respectfully
Chris

[Gateholio]

Time to put this to bed.


Being as we are all adults, I decided that it was time for us to have an adult conversation about the use of crossbows. No one can deny that crossbow technology has evolved very rapidly in the last 20 years. And is very different from most other archery technologies out there. Coupled with today’s optics, a crossbow today is far more capable than those of even 10 years ago. This regulation change has already been established in Alberta so I was not proposing anything new.


What I wanted to do here was start a conversation. Not ban anything or take away anyone’s right to hunt. Those that know me know that I’ve fought for hunter access in Delta and the Fraser Valley for most of my life.


I just find it sad that we cannot have a real conversation about something these days without everyone getting their panties in a bunch. As this shit storm has progressed, I’ve decided that I will not be proposing this resolution at the Region 2 AGM next weekend. It’s dead. Seems as though free speech and open discussion are as well.

Jim Fox (Foxton Gundogs) you of all people have been around long enough to know this is NOT how procedure is supposed to work around resolutions coming to the table. Usually what happens is that a resolution comes forward and gets discussed (both for and against) and then it gets voted on. This shouldn’t be happening in the court of social media as it quickly becomes a circus. Shame on you for the way you’ve handled this Jim.


I’m out.

Thanks for clarifying this. The way this thread was presented was unnecessarily dramatic.

[guest]

Great post Willy above.

[Island Idiots]

This is not a BCWF resolution . This is one member of region 2 putting it forward to be voted on. If it passes at their meeting it goes on to the BCWF meeting to be voted on. The title of this thread is misleading to say the least. Bashing the BCWF is a little premature in this case. They haven't passed anything.

Resolution or motion my statement stands. BCWF is not a hunting organization.

[Gateholio]

I don't think hunters should be opposed to discussing technology in hunting. These conversations have always been around and should not be a taboo topic.

With regards to advancing crossbow technology, if there is to be discussion of this, there must also be the same discussion about advancing compound bow technology. The two go hand in hand, with every point about crossbows having a similar point with compound bows.

Before proceeding with a conversation like this though, there is an important question to ask- "Why do we need to have this discussion? What is the purpose of looking at this?"

The most important reason I can think of is that it's a conservation concern. If it is not a conservation concern, what other purpose do we need to look at technology for? Is it not "fair chase?" As we are okay with rifle hunting, I don't think that's the problem.

So, define the reason to discuss this technology, and then start from there. Because if there is no true valid reason to focus on this topic, all it will do is pit hunters against other hunters.

[Danny_29]

I think this is a valuable conversation.

Can fully understand people being upset at the removal of oppirtunity, which I disagree with.

What I don't like though is the setup in BC with the very short Archery season and lack of bow only areas.

Longer Archery seasons and more bow specific zones (excluding cross bow) not to punish people who use crossbows. I have family members that use them because of both a disability and shoulder injuries. To use this to move and grow Archery.

So my proposal would to not be reduce crossbow opportunity but to add more days and more bow only areas that exclude crossbow.

[Gateholio]

I think this is a valuable conversation.

Can fully understand people being upset at the removal of oppirtunity, which I disagree with.

What I don't like though is the setup in BC with the very short Archery season and lack of bow only areas.

Longer Archery seasons and more bow specific zones (excluding cross bow) not to punish people who use crossbows. I have family members that use them because of both a disability and shoulder injuries. To use this to move and grow Archery.

So my proposal would to not be reduce crossbow opportunity but to add more days and more bow only areas that exclude crossbow.

Bow hunters can hunt all bow seasons and GOS too, so they have a very long season already.

What would the purpose of excluding crossbows from your "bow only" areas be?

What would the criteria be for the "bow only" zones be? Is it due to safety concerns, like near residential areas?

[835]

Does anyone else see that they would not step up for us when we needed them saying they are non partisan.. and
Now they want to take oppritunity away? Even if it is just one guy...

[Keta1969]

Resolution or motion my statement stands. BCWF is not a hunting organization.

Never said it was. I view it as a conservation organization supported by many sportsmen and woman who are also hunters and fishermen.

[Danny_29]

Bow hunters can hunt all bow seasons and GOS too, so they have a very long season already.

What would the purpose of excluding crossbows from your "bow only" areas be?

What would the criteria be for the "bow only" zones be? Is it due to safety concerns, like near residential areas?

My whole perspective is based on growing up in Manitoba, They have a 4 week bow only season, 3 week muzzle season, then 2 weeks rifle for whitetail in the south. This setup obviously wouldn't work in BC , but what it does is your typical hunter is proficient in archery, and invests time in the sport because of the significant opportunity.

The purpose of excluding cross bow would be to stricrly grow the sport of archery (which will by proxy grow the amount of crossbow hunters)

The criteria for my the "bow only" zones in my made up world would not be safety or near residential areas as they currently are but just portions of MU's dedicated to it, you can insert whatever logic you'd like in here to select them.

Basically my opinion is that if there is a tangible benifit to using a bow, more hunters will pick them up.

[Gateholio]

My whole perspective is based on growing up in Manitoba, They have a 4 week bow only season, 3 week muzzle season, then 2 weeks rifle for whitetail in the south. This setup obviously wouldn't work in BC , but what it does is your typical hunter is proficient in archery, and invests time in the sport because of the significant opportunity.

The purpose of excluding cross bow would be to stricrly grow the sport of archery (which will by proxy grow the amount of crossbow hunters)

The criteria for my the "bow only" zones in my made up world would not be safety or near residential areas as they currently are but just portions of MU's dedicated to it, you can insert whatever logic you'd like in here to select them.

Basically my opinion is that if there is a tangible benifit to using a bow, more hunters will pick them up.

During Manitobas ML and rifle season, is it legal to use a bow?

Why is it important to increase the amount of hunters using bows in BC?

[Wild one]

From info I received there maybe a push from someone that is not BCWF and has a lot more pull on regulation to remove crossbows from bow season. The reasons have nothing to do with technology or bow hunters but instead an alarming amount of infractions and safety related issues becoming too common from crossbow users during archery season

If this is correct those opposed to crossbows being removed from archery season might want to look at the slobs in the hunting community giving crossbows a bad name. This is where idiots can ruin it for the good people

[Jagermeister]

The fact of the matter is; you can only harvest what is allowable, regardless of the method deployed. The archery season extends the season to give an advantage over the firearm season. There is nothing stopping the firearm hunter from entering into the archery season if he should choose to take up a bow or crossbow.

[limit time]

From info I received there maybe a push from someone that is not BCWF and has a lot more pull on regulation to remove crossbows from bow season. The reasons have nothing to do with technology or bow hunters but instead an alarming amount of infractions and safety related issues becoming too common from crossbow users during archery season

If this is correct those opposed to crossbows being removed from archery season might want to look at the slobs in the hunting community giving crossbows a bad name. This is where idiots can ruin it for the good people
Really? So what are we talking for violations that the “slobs” are committing? Shooting from a vehicle? Driving with a cocked bow ? You’re telling me, more people with crossbows are getting fines than gun hunters ??
OR... is this how we vilify a group so they can get rid of them ?? Funny how removing them slobs from the archery season but not the gun season Is the solution to this....

[Danny_29]

During Manitobas ML and rifle season, is it legal to use a bow?

Why is it important to increase the amount of hunters using bows in BC?

Yes it is legal to use bow in all seasons in Manitoba just have to where orange though.

It is important to be growing all aspects of hunting. My personal experience of being a bow hunter, every year I go back hunting there is always another guy in bow camp that has picked it up and makes the experience that much more enjoyable.

[Wild one]

Really? So what are we talking for violations that the “slobs” are committing? Shooting from a vehicle? Driving with a cocked bow ? You’re telling me, more people with crossbows are getting fines than gun hunters ??
OR... is this how we vilify a group so they can get rid of them ?? Funny how removing them slobs from the archery season but not the gun season Is the solution to this....

All the issues you listed and more offences. I doubt crossbow hunters are racking up more infractions but it
sounds like it’s the assumed % of crossbow hunters breaking the rules may be the issue. I hunt with and know good crossbow hunters who may loose out over this unfortunately. Personally it’s likely the good go unnoticed and the slobs make them selves stick out in a bad way

This is not hunters, hunting org, conservation group, or special interest group bringing it forward and this is not about trying to vilify any group. This is about a problem is being seen and a trend that they want it brought to an end

This is not my idea and I don’t care if crossbows are part of archery season or not in BC. People may not like it but if hunting privileges are abused hunters can loose them because hunting is not a right in this country. This is one of the reasons passing a long good ethics in the hunting community is important because we all pay for the poor actions by idiots

[limit time]

All the issues you listed and more offences. I doubt crossbow hunters are racking up more infractions but it
sounds like it’s the assumed % of crossbow hunters breaking the rules may be the issue. I hunt with and know good crossbow hunters who may loose out over this unfortunately. Personally it’s likely the good go unnoticed and the slobs make them selves stick out in a bad way

This is not hunters, hunting org, conservation group, or special interest group bringing it forward and this is not about trying to vilify any group. This is about a problem is being seen and a trend that they want it brought to an end

This is not my idea and I don’t care if crossbows are part of archery season or not in BC. People may not like it but if hunting privileges are abused hunters can loose them because hunting is not a right in this country. This is one of the reasons passing a long good ethics in the hunting community is important because we all pay for the poor actions by idiots
So it would make sense (to me), if they are the problem then deal with them.... don’t uck with others who aren’t. It sounds like they just don’t like it. I would also like to see the stats for proof on the so called violations and can I ask who is pushing this ? You obviously know who the person is and if we want to be vocal about it, we can.

Also, we need to stop this hunting and guns are a privilege and sport stuff. Imo.

[Jordan f.]

# of tags and opportunities is based off success rates. Crossbows are getting way to advanced and are effecting success rates. They either remove crossbows from archery season. Or they'll remove tags and opportunities.

They will also probably follow Alberta's regs. If you have a disability that a doctor says effects you're ability to pull a compound bow, you can use a crossbow.

If you are able body and can shoot a compound bow but chose a crossbow because it's easier to kill things and you have a higher success rate with it... maybe taking the easy road isn't the best long term.

Well.. I don't have the answer. Nor do I know what the right answer is. But I'd take everything into consideration before making a vote.

Anyways. I'm not gonna respond from here. Just food for thought.

[emerson]

All the anti-crossbow folks should try carrying around a crossbow in a hunting scenario. Quite unwieldy, I sold mine. Buying a compound this spring. Either way, a modern compound is no disadvantage compared to a cross bow. The BCWF needs more members, not less. It won’t get my $$.

[dracb]

Time to put this to bed.


Being as we are all adults, I decided that it was time for us to have an adult conversation about the use of crossbows. No one can deny that crossbow technology has evolved very rapidly in the last 20 years. And is very different from most other archery technologies out there. Coupled with today’s optics, a crossbow today is far more capable than those of even 10 years ago. This regulation change has already been established in Alberta so I was not proposing anything new.


What I wanted to do here was start a conversation. Not ban anything or take away anyone’s right to hunt. Those that know me know that I’ve fought for hunter access in Delta and the Fraser Valley for most of my life.


I just find it sad that we cannot have a real conversation about something these days without everyone getting their panties in a bunch. As this shit storm has progressed, I’ve decided that I will not be proposing this resolution at the Region 2 AGM next weekend. It’s dead. Seems as though free speech and open discussion are as well.

Jim Fox (Foxton Gundogs) you of all people have been around long enough to know this is NOT how procedure is supposed to work around resolutions coming to the table. Usually what happens is that a resolution comes forward and gets discussed (both for and against) and then it gets voted on. This shouldn’t be happening in the court of social media as it quickly becomes a circus. Shame on you for the way you’ve handled this Jim.


I’m out.

Strange, only the people sitting at the table are able to have a civilized conversation. Even stranger that those of us who expressed an opposing opinion are not having a civilized conversation as we try to make sure the people sitting at the table have an some idea of the number of people who are not in agreement with their prejudices and why.

As far as the evolution of cross bows goes, much the same can be said about compound bows and the arrows, sights, mechanical rests and such accessories that go with them. They are new fangled contraptions that take unfair advantage in the opinions of some of of us that still hunt with recurve bow or even more primitive equipment.

[Tactical Lever]

I'm glad Jim (Foxton Gundogs) brought this to everyone's attention, even if it wasn't fully correct. I didn't find Mark's (Marsh Hawk) response to be very classy in response to this, or the reaction it got here. Glad to hear top level archers chime in and confirm what I knew about it already. There is no advantage. So what if you have to move your arm and then hold 15%.... I don't think that many crossbow guys glue them to their shoulder and walk around pointing them everywhere they walk and look either.

I've heard some of the bow elitists decry the crossbow because it doesn't take as much practice. Like that's a bad thing. I bought a bow several years ago, and probably had about 5 practice sessions with it. I did it mainly to give me an excuse to get outside, and look for deer a couple weeks early. But realistically, if I'm out with my bow, it had better be a 3 yard shot. Haven't even bothered to take it out because I didn't practice lately. A lot of guys won't get the chance to practice but still be tempted to go out. Do you really want to limit guys like that and myself to something that increases our chances at wounding? I'm realistic about it, and just left it hang there, but there is a certain percentage that will go out anyway. You know what's really great for archery's image? Well I can tell you it's not the over active letter writing anti-hunting bird watcher down the street coming across wasted animals never recovered and maimed Bambis with arrows hanging out of them.

My old Darton Apache is with fiber optics is probably a mile ahead of what Fred Bear started with, but a mile behind the new bows. They handily beat mine with a more solid back wall, more ease of use, lower let off weight, and about 25% more speed. If archery purists want to keep arguing against crossbows, a lot of compound guys might find they've argued themselves right out of their own season.

Another argument is about places that don't allow crossbows. Who cares if another place has backwards laws? A lot of places have BP season also, but if you don't, give it a rest and let all types of archery gear play. Not a big fan of having about 8 different seasons and then rifle hunters get screwed over by scared off game, and no chances to get out and just enjoy it.

[Wild one]

So it would make sense (to me), if they are the problem then deal with them.... don’t uck with others who aren’t. It sounds like they just don’t like it. I would also like to see the stats for proof on the so called violations and can I ask who is pushing this ? You obviously know who the person is and if we want to be vocal about it, we can.

Also, we need to stop this hunting and guns are a privilege and sport stuff. Imo.

Don’t worry everyone will be too busy blaming bow hunters and debating the difference between bows and crossbows to see it coming. I am not saying I agree with it but just what I am hearing

Like it or not in Canada firearms and hunting are a privilege unless your FN. Would be nice if it was a right and would be nice if Canadians pushed for it. Till that legally changes it’s a privilege and a strike of the pen and your screwed

[338win mag]

When the hunting community is getting kicked in the nuts daily with virtually nobody looking out for their interests, then wants to open an absurd discussion such as this, tells me.... someone has too much time on their hands.
I also dont care what Alberta's views are on Crossbows.

[limit time]

I found this interesting . Lots of states are opening up to the crossbow.

https://www.tenpointcrossbows.com/united-states-crossbow-regulations/ (https://www.tenpointcrossbows.com/united-states-crossbow-regulations/)

[boxhitch]

So, define the reason to discuss this technology, and then start from there. Because if there is no true valid reason to focus on this topic, all it will do is pit hunters against other hunters.Seems to happen whenever the validity of bow-only seasons comes up. Nothing divides a room faster than mentioning 'rifle vs bow'.

Someone mentioned bow seasons are used as management tool. It is not a wildlife management tool but it is a people management tool
It is about purists and elitists
If archery was truly being used as a wildlife management tool, we would be talking about zones not seasons, then the power and effectiveness of implements would become important

[Wild one]

Seems to happen whenever the validity of bow-only seasons comes up. Nothing divides a room faster than mentioning 'rifle vs bow'.

Someone mentioned bow seasons are used as management tool. It is not a wildlife management tool but it is a people management tool
It is about purists and elitists
If archery was truly being used as a wildlife management tool, we would be talking about zones not seasons, then the power and effectiveness of implements would become important

Many jurisdictions view it as a management tool because it gives the ability to give a lower impact hunting opportunity. All hunting seasons are a form of hunter management. We both know how allowable harvest is met means nothing in game management. Tons of ways to cut the pie and all the arguments regarding this is do to the fact there is a lack of respect between the hunting groups.

But arrogance will keep many closed minded hunters screaming elitist

[Opinionated Ol Phart]

You noticed that too......

[Big Lew]

I don’t see the difference between the improvements in crossbows, compound bows, even in hunting heads and shafts for traditional bows, or in the newer scopes for rifles. What’s next? A ban on laser scopes, or scopes that can be dialed in to specific ammunition velocity. I equate it to the government banning all vehicles with over 100 hp, or that can do the quarter mile in less than 15 seconds...or are able to go faster than 100 kph.

[MontyLake]

Why the whining?

You want to hunt with a crossbow? Do it in the regular season same as everyone else.

No one is stopping you.

[IronNoggin]

... Being as we are all adults, I decided that it was time for us to have an adult conversation about the use of crossbows...

NOT in my mind's eye. You chose to intentionally fan flames of dissent within the hunting community (that you are "supposed to represent") based solely upon your own personal bias against crossbow use. The reasons you go on to cite are nothing but pure bullshit. Many have already pointed out the fact that modern compound bows are certainly not less capable than crossbows in the hands of an experienced shooter. I was, and have many buddies who are. What they are capable of would stun many, and even though I run with a modern crossbow, I will openly admit several of these fellows are MUCH better than I ever will be with my horizontal bow.

In my opinion, you submitted your resolution for very personal and selfish means, not at all what you came on here to try and convince us was the rational behind that move.


As this shit storm has progressed, I’ve decided that I will not be proposing this resolution at the Region 2 AGM next weekend. It’s dead.

Correct decision IMO. Unfortunate it took public exposure of your intent to get you to do so.

If there is any shame in this matter, you are the one wearing it.
I would like to thank Foxey for bringing this to our attention, for it is my thought that if he had not, you would still be pushing your private agenda in this regard.

In closing you can be thankful I am not a Region 2 Member. If I were, I would be doing everything in my power to see you removed from any position wherein you might be construed as "representing" hunters of any ilk whatsoever.

Ticked,
Matt

[Bubbacanuck]

There are many states and provinces that don’t allow crossbows during archery season. Looks like I’ll get some flack for saying this but I know myself and many other bow hunters would have no problem at all with banning crossbows during archery season

Then me as a rifle hunter would be fine with getting rid of all archery season. No more 'bow only' season. Just because you don't hunt with a crossbow doesn't mean the regulations should be changed. If they remove crossbows from the bow only season, it won't be long before they get rid of the bow only season all together. Be careful what you wish for.

[ratherbefishin]

Crossbows are an ideal solution for hunting in urban areas ,they will never take over bows or purest archery but their accuracy helps ensure a humane kill...isn’t that what we all want?

[DeepJeep]

I have read first 3 pages and here what I think. Proposing a ban on crossbows is like restricting magnum calibers as they can do "long range". It's like saying u should only be hunting with a 30-30 or 45-70.

What he should be doing is proposing a muzzle loader season for some species. He should be focused on Increase hunting opportunities within the realms on sustainable populations NOT decreasing the .

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I’ve seen some pretty messed up proposals come up over the years by people at the regional level.

Luckily the vast majority get shot down before they gain any traction. I believe this is one of them.
Most people see the big picture better than Mark.

SSS

[Bubbacanuck]

Why the whining?

You want to hunt with a crossbow? Do it in the regular season same as everyone else.

No one is stopping you.

It's not whining. It's standing up for increased hunting opportunities, not decreased.

What you are saying is the same logic of 'who cares if they ban the grizzly hunt, hunt other species'.

Now they are talking about changes to the trapping of cats; again, who cares I don't trap cats.

Then they will restrict hunting privileges until you can't hunt.

Your comments miss the point, it's not about hunting with crossbows during GOS; it's about increasing hunter opportunity not restricting it.

Would you care if you weren't allowed to hunt at all anymore??

[Tactical Lever]

Why the whining?

You want to hunt with a crossbow? Do it in the regular season same as everyone else.

No one is stopping you.

Huh! A junior member. The Fudds are getting younger and younger.

It's because the hunting and shooting community can't stick together and fight for all our rights together that there's a prohib list half a mile long, and growing.
'Cause who cares? I like cowboy guns.

It's not based on a scientific, real world advantage. It's feelings. Most likely feelings of a super hunter archer, who doesn't like sharing the bush with bottom feeding cross bow rednecks. I think some like to say "x-gunners".

[fuzzybiscuit]

Why the whining?

You want to hunt with a crossbow? Do it in the regular season same as everyone else.

No one is stopping you.

Would you feel the same if “crossbow” in your statement was swapped out with “bow”? Using your logic why even have a bow season...?

[Gateholio]

Using your logic why even have a bow season...?


Actually, that’s the question that needs to be asked if we are to have a discussion about technological advances in archery gear.

What is the purpose of a bow season, and does advancing tech violate that purpose ? If not, then we don’t need to discuss it. If yes, then what is the solution ?

[303savage]

Why not just ban all hunting. don't give them any ideas.

[MichelD]

There was once a muzzle-loader season. What happened?

Did modern in-line scope-sighted ML rifles defeat the purpose of having a primitive firearm season?

[guest]

Wow with thoughts like these.....yes even just thoughts coming from our Regional Leaders ya wonder why membership is shrinking. No flippin wonder.
Where the hell and what ever happened to the BCWF supporting all legal hunters of BC.
Crazy. We can certainly be our own worst enemies.
Glad I belong to a few other organizations that are thinking of the greater good for all rather than self driven ideas and agendas.
As said. Crazy.
Life long rifle and shot gunner that recently picked up a X Bow because of pooched shoulder. To challenge myself more not because of special seasons.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Wow with thoughts like these.....yes even just thoughts coming from our Regional Leaders ya wonder why membership is shrinking. No flippin wonder.
Where the hell and what ever happened to the BCWF supporting all legal hunters of BC.
Crazy. We can certainly be our own worst enemies.
Glad I belong to a few other organizations that are thinking of the greater good for all rather than self driven ideas and agendas.
As said. Crazy.
Life long rifle and shot gunner that recently picked up a X Bow because of pooched shoulder. To challenge myself more not because of special seasons.

CT- this is the agenda of a couple individuals in Reg 2. I can pretty much guarantee it’s not going far.

[835]

Time to put this to bed.


Being as we are all adults, I decided that it was time for us to have an adult conversation about the use of crossbows. No one can deny that crossbow technology has evolved very rapidly in the last 20 years. And is very different from most other archery technologies out there. Coupled with today’s optics, a crossbow today is far more capable than those of even 10 years ago. This regulation change has already been established in Alberta so I was not proposing anything new.


What I wanted to do here was start a conversation. Not ban anything or take away anyone’s right to hunt. Those that know me know that I’ve fought for hunter access in Delta and the Fraser Valley for most of my life.


I just find it sad that we cannot have a real conversation about something these days without everyone getting their panties in a bunch. As this shit storm has progressed, I’ve decided that I will not be proposing this resolution at the Region 2 AGM next weekend. It’s dead. Seems as though free speech and open discussion are as well.

Jim Fox (Foxton Gundogs) you of all people have been around long enough to know this is NOT how procedure is supposed to work around resolutions coming to the table. Usually what happens is that a resolution comes forward and gets discussed (both for and against) and then it gets voted on. This shouldn’t be happening in the court of social media as it quickly becomes a circus. Shame on you for the way you’ve handled this Jim.


I’m out.


I think What Jim did was perfect. It showed you how ridiculous this idea was. Showed you how many people vehemently appose the taking away of our right to hunt. You want this in a closed room of minimal people who think like you.
I am also taken back by Clarks opinion on this.

[rocksteady]

Ibtl.....
....

[835]

oh come on Rock nobody called nobody an asshole yet lol...

[Gateholio]

I think What Jim did was perfect. It showed you how ridiculous this idea was. Showed you how many people vehemently appose the taking away of our right to hunt. You want this in a closed room of minimal people who think like you.
I am also taken back by Clarks opinion on this.


My opinion on what, exactly ?

[weatherby_man]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/645/477/c24.gif

[fuzzybiscuit]

My opinion on what, exactly ?

I think it had something to do with your opinion on the 375 Ruger...

[835]

My opinion on what, exactly ?

I just figured you would have been more on side with what this thread was created for.
I understand that this thread came out " Guns blazing" but in cases like this they need to. Your post 31 mentioning 1 guy ... it only takes one guy. and post 53 about the dramatic way the tread was started.. this is an issue.

lately these sorts of things have been getting at me. Threads like Kossers, Sure I went a bit balls deep on that one... Threads like this one.... Clark, I just see way too much self destruction in our sport. That's all.
sure I can understand how far Crossbows have come,,, but so have Bows... This is just another "inside attack" .... Sure at times I might be just as "Dramatic" as anyone here, I did call Kosser a Vegetarian... lol...
But we need to band up, we need places like the BCWF to work for us making Game not taking it.

[limit time]

CT- this is the agenda of a couple individuals in Reg 2. I can pretty much guarantee it’s not going far.

wild one says this goes even higher then them. An agenda is going on under our noses. Can you smell what the cucks are cookin ?

[Wild one]

wild one says this goes even higher then them. An agenda is going on under our noses. Can you smell what the cucks are cookin ?

No link between the two groups

[limit time]

No link between the two groups

I get that. What I’m saying is this goes beyond those two and Someone else has a hardon for x bows. The war isn’t over yet ?

[Gateholio]

I just figured you would have been more on side with what this thread was created for.
I understand that this thread came out " Guns blazing" but in cases like this they need to. Your post 31 mentioning 1 guy ... it only takes one guy. and post 53 about the dramatic way the tread was started.. this is an issue.

lately these sorts of things have been getting at me. Threads like Kossers, Sure I went a bit balls deep on that one... Threads like this one.... Clark, I just see way too much self destruction in our sport. That's all.
sure I can understand how far Crossbows have come,,, but so have Bows... This is just another "inside attack" .... Sure at times I might be just as "Dramatic" as anyone here, I did call Kosser a Vegetarian... lol...
But we need to band up, we need places like the BCWF to work for us making Game not taking it.

I think the way the thread was presented was indeed overly dramatic.

To begin with, the title "BCWF to PUSH FOR crossbow ban" was completely inaccurate. It turns out it was two BCWF reps in one region who had an idea they wanted to explore. If you are going to make a controversial thread, at least take the time to get the title of the thread correct.

Then the post goes on to be a call to arms without actually talking to the people involved. It's not like the OP didn't have the contact info, he posted it in the thread. Why not contact Mark and discuss it to find out what is actually going on before plastering it all over social media. My first question to the OP -which was not answered- was "What did Mark say when you spoke to him?" Turns out he didn't actually bother to go to the source.

Keep in mind, this was a proposed resolution. Which means it hadn't got anywhere, it hadn't been approved to go forward as a resolution, and it certainly didn't reflect the opinion of the entire BCWF.

The OP got what he wanted though-lots of drama and people freaking out that the entire BCWF is trying to take away hunter opportunity. When the reality is that it is questionable if this proposed resolution would even make it past a regional vote, and it almost certainly wouldn't pass at the AGM. So yeah, it was unnecessarily dramatic.


On the topic of advancing technology in hunting, it's a subject hunters can't really avoid. It's already arrived. Drones were banned pretty fast. Trail cameras have been banned in some states and make no mistake about it, it's going to be a topic here, too. MichelD asked what became of the ML season in BC? As I understand it, ML technology outgrew the purpose of having a ML season, so it was cancelled.

Have bows also evolved to the point where having a special bow season is redundant? I know this thread was originally about crossbows, but as everyone has pointed out, compound technology has advanced as well, and you can't really talk about a modern crossbow without talking about modern compound bows. Wasn't the main purpose of bow seasons to allow hunter opportunity without over harvest? Have the modern bows effected this?

Many here obviously don't like the idea of excluding crossbows, and want to just shut down the conversation ASAP, but the topic ( including the topic of modern compound bows) is certainly an important thing to discuss, as there are questions that bow hunters need to be able to answer, before someone else decides their future for them- both crossbow and compound alike

[guest]

To the Mods........
Change the Title to more accurately fit the thread.

[Jagermeister]

Personally, I'm happy that the OP brought it forward and I would hardly call it over dramatizing. I look at it as closing the gate before the sheep got out.
And I would not put it above some people to rubber stamp it at a regional meeting to get it on the resolution list and we all know how things can be missed when those resolutions can slide past "home" at the club meetings where resolutions are approved for the AGM. We just don't need it on the approved resolutions list.
And this I can tell you. I am both a bow and a rifle hunter, well now crossbow. I have never looked down on a person for their choice although I think archers are better hunters and that's because they have to get closer to the game, to see the whites of their eyes.
Hunting has evolved in all aspects, not just bows and crossbow, but rifles and optics including range finders and thermal imaging as well. It just makes no sense to put further limitations on hunting as the government and their greenlings are doing a fine job.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Look Gate I realize you don't like me and that's fine but IF that was a post about the govt proposing firearm confiscation and there was an error in which department or who launched it you would be all over it like a pig in mud no matter the slight errors. The responses not only here but other social media sites indicates the feeling the majority of hunters have for such a proposal. I was on the front lines of both the LEH and G-bear flights and I will continue to stand up for any threat to further take away ANY hunting opportunities no matter where they originate. The #1post was not the OP. it was a share of a post from another site made by a Region 2 member who was at the meeting. Never the less it had the desired effect of bringing it to the attention of hunters from all regions. The change in semantics ie: the fact that Region 2 was not specified as ground 0 of this threat to yet another of our hunting privileges or that the proposed ban was "only" during archery season is also irrelevant as that would curtail a huge percentage of all x-bow hunters activity in the field. The fact is this was something thatALL hunterz needed to know about and express their opinions on BEFORE it made the Region 2 AGM. IMHO it should have been brought up by those proposing it to test the waters BEFORE it ever reached the table. The bottom line is it was brought to life by a valued member of Region 2 and it was able to be discussed before it made it to the AGM table. Mission accomplished, like it or not people have expressed their opinions and the vast majority were decanters of the archery season ban on crossbows.
Onward and upward to other things
CT you will note I already tried but the change only shows up on my first post not on the entire thread. I also asked the mods to change the title to reflect it was Region 2 not the Peovincial body.

[rocksteady]

oh come on Rock nobody called nobody an asshole yet lol...

Patience..

It will happen :)

[835]

What i do aggree with you on Gate, is that it is infact a conversation that needs to happen. Both bows and crossbows... but that conversation has to start as that.. not " I am thinking of talking about Banning crossbows"

That is the key part i am aiming at. It went past all of the conversation bit.. Right to Banning... and more so it is coming from a place that would not step up for us in the past on a political feild. Yet talking about changing the regulations to limit opretunity even further is ok? I dont get it...

Jim can be hot but so can you.... me too... most all of us here are at one time or another... its a room full of rednecks of course that will happen.

[Keta1969]

Hunting has evolved in all aspects, not just bows and crossbow, but rifles and optics including range finders and thermal imaging as well. It just makes no sense to put further limitations on hunting as the government and their greenlings are doing a fine job.

The tech that has come and is coming into hunting whether bows, crossbows or rifles will in my opinion( and I know exactly what that is worth) lead to more restrictions. It is inevitable so there is nothing wrong with discussing it and figuring out how much of it we want or we just carry blindly on and wait for shorter seasons and lower bag limits.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I think the way the thread was presented was indeed overly dramatic.

To begin with, the title "BCWF to PUSH FOR crossbow ban" was completely inaccurate. It turns out it was two BCWF reps in one region who had an idea they wanted to explore. If you are going to make a controversial thread, at least take the time to get the title of the thread correct.

Then the post goes on to be a call to arms without actually talking to the people involved. It's not like the OP didn't have the contact info, he posted it in the thread. Why not contact Mark and discuss it to find out what is actually going on before plastering it all over social media. My first question to the OP -which was not answered- was "What did Mark say when you spoke to him?" Turns out he didn't actually bother to go to the source.

Keep in mind, this was a proposed resolution. Which means it hadn't got anywhere, it hadn't been approved to go forward as a resolution, and it certainly didn't reflect the opinion of the entire BCWF.

The OP got what he wanted though-lots of drama and people freaking out that the entire BCWF is trying to take away hunter opportunity. When the reality is that it is questionable if this proposed resolution would even make it past a regional vote, and it almost certainly wouldn't pass at the AGM. So yeah, it was unnecessarily dramatic.


On the topic of advancing technology in hunting, it's a subject hunters can't really avoid. It's already arrived. Drones were banned pretty fast. Trail cameras have been banned in some states and make no mistake about it, it's going to be a topic here, too. MichelD asked what became of the ML season in BC? As I understand it, ML technology outgrew the purpose of having a ML season, so it was cancelled.

Have bows also evolved to the point where having a special bow season is redundant? I know this thread was originally about crossbows, but as everyone has pointed out, compound technology has advanced as well, and you can't really talk about a modern crossbow without talking about modern compound bows. Wasn't the main purpose of bow seasons to allow hunter opportunity without over harvest? Have the modern bows effected this?

Many here obviously don't like the idea of excluding crossbows, and want to just shut down the conversation ASAP, but the topic ( including the topic of modern compound bows) is certainly an important thing to discuss, as there are questions that bow hunters need to be able to answer, before someone else decides their future for them- both crossbow and compound alike

Well said, Gate. This is my take on this thread as well.

Imagine the drama on here if ever regulation ‘proposal’ was aired out like this one.

In principal, I’m not against Foxton’s stance. Although I’ve never used a crossbow( I use a compound), I fully support their use during archery only seasons.

I have more faith in the system than others.


SSS

[willyqbc]

My Personal experience here in region 5 has been the BCWF reps here at the time I was involved were 0% supportive of any additional opportunity for hunters if the word "archery" was attached.

I sat in the room with the BCWF reps, the ministry, guides, ranchers, trappers, FN etc. I was there as the rep for the UBBC for allocation meetings yearly.
When the BCWF reps put suggestions to the ministry that made sense and were going to provide opportunity, I wholeheartedly supported them. I lost track of the number of times an archery opportunity was proposed where the ministry made it very clear, that the archery opening was the ONLY option they would consider for a given area, or for additional days. Regardless of the fact that no new "any weapon" openings were even going to be considered, the BCWF reps flatly refused to support any suggestions I put forward....and a lot of additional opportunity was lost.

When moose here went from a two week open season, to 100% limited entry, I questioned the ministry bio if there was any possibility of saving a 2 week open season by making it an archery season in addition to the LEH. He said that the archery harvest was so low that he felt we could reduce LEH authorizations by 3-5% and leave a 2 week archery any bull opening in place. The ministry liked the idea, the guides, ranchers, and even FN were on board.....the BCWF reps nearly lost their minds almost yelling that all moose opportunities had to be for EVERYONE!!! Like there was some sort of prohibition where certain people werent allowed to use a bow???. For some reason the ministry never seemed to want to cross the BCWF, so like so many other proposals....it died on the table.

In this day and age of less and less AAH, the low success rate of archery hunting is the ONLY way to more OPPORTUNITY in my opinion.....and that being said, that ship may have already sailed.

for what its worth....many years of archery, pulling wrenches etc, has left me with a buggered shoulder and I have not archery hunted in probably 5 years, and may not for many years to come, so i'm not advocating for something I want to see for ME....but rather for something to improve opportunity for anyone who chooses to take advantage of it.

JMO

[Wild one]

Willy you probably already know that BS went well beyond region 5

This is just one of the reasons I am not a fan of the BCWF. It is also a factor in B.C. having a divided hunting community

but that is as far as I am going with that

[Harvest the Land]

Thanks for the "heads up" on this Jim. And good posts Willy - nice to hear from an expert. If BCWF ever started lobbying to ban crossbows from archery season I would cancel my membership and monthly donation. Unless there were conservation concerns, which there aren't

[180grainer]

I haven't read the entire thread, but the guy proposing a reclassification of a crossbow sounds like he's writing for the government. It is Orwellian that a organization that is made up of hunters and anglers takes it upon itself to suggest to government on how to place more restrictions on hunters and anglers. Up is down, good is bad, right is wrong. I remember when Region 2 had a "special weapons" season where you could also use a muzzle loader. In this case "the season" was reclassified to exclude the muzzle loader. Maybe the BCWF did that too.

[Gateholio]

Well said, Gate. This is my take on this thread as well.

Imagine the drama on here if ever regulation ‘proposal’ was aired out like this one.

In principal, I’m not against Foxton’s stance. Although I’ve never used a crossbow( I use a compound), I fully support their use during archery only seasons.

I have more faith in the system than others.


SSS


I'm glad some people can see past the hype and understand what I was saying. Some of the replies on this thread remind me of the kid with the MAGA hat with the older native guy, and how social media erupted calling for the kids head without actually looking at the rest of the story. I suppose it's the world we live in now, where headlines cause extreme reactions.

[835]

Maybe your right Gate but in this case it worked.

[boxhitch]

.......... I suppose it's the world we live in now, where headlines cause extreme reactions.Fake news draws first blood usually, and always takes a great effort to heal

[Jagermeister]

Fake news draws first blood usually, and always takes a great effort to heal
This was NOT FAKE NEWS. It was actually contemplated to the point of being put to words and had it not been brought forward by a couple of people, we may have been surprised after the BCWF AGM.
When an item is sent to the BCWF as a resolution, it essentially rubber stamped for inclusion on the resolution list that is sent out to the clubs. Clubs usually spend some time going over the resolutions to determine how to vote on each. Although the club directs their delegates I have witnessed where the wishes of the club have not been carried out by the delegates.
In this case, we have a preempted vote and the resolution will not hit the AGM floor, we think.
The Fed and it's membership should be more concerned about retaining hunting opportunities and habitat improvement than trying to impose loss of hunting opportunities.
I have been in contact with Mark and with the dialogue that we have had, I think it would be safe to say we are now on the same page. Remember though, it's not to safe to say that someone else may attempt to put this to resolution on the floor.

[ratherbefishin]

I like getting out for a hunt, but quite frankly am not prepared to put in the time to be proficient enough with bow to launch an arrow at a living target,but a crossbow gives me the opportunity to take an animal humanely ( which is my personal criteria be it with a rifle,shotgun,bow or crossbow) Does the BCWF arbitrarily decide casual hunters like me should not be allowed to hunt with archery tackle because I don’t fit their purist criteria?

[Gateholio]

Does the BCWF arbitrarily decide casual hunters like me should not be allowed to hunt with archery tackle because I don’t fit their purist criteria?

No, and that is why overly dramatic threads like this one can be so damaging. It encourages a false perspective that the BCWF is moving fast to ban crossbows, which is not the case.

There are a number of layers proposals like this must travel through the BCWF before being suggested to government, and then it is up to the ministry to decide whether they would like to proceed, not proceed, get more public input or just ignore the whole thing. And as a proposal like this is sure to be very controversial, it’s unlikely it would proceed very far in the BCWF anyway.

[ratherbefishin]

The only excuse to ban crossbows as far as I can see is to curtail poaching or stop pictures showing up in the front page showing a dead deer on somebodies lawn with a crossbow bolt sticking out if it.I doubt very much any deer hit with my Excalibur would have a bolt still in it,unless it was shot at a long distance with a poor shot.In fact, the deer we’ve taken even with double lung shots ran a considerable distance and that alone makes me pause before hunting with it.I hate the thought of losing an animal or worse,wounding one

[Bugle M In]

I am a little late to this party! and many pages to have to decipher, but I am too lazy right now:-P

If BCWF is entertaining this, they are shooting themselves in the head!
Even if this is just protocol to "discuss" issues like this and wont go far, I still think it is absurd at a time like this.

There are way way too many other issues that need attention in BC for the BCWF to sink their teeth into then to be wasting any time
what so ever on another "Hunter Restriction"!

I get it, I belong to a council, and there is always one or 2 individuals who get sidetracked into some obscure issue and end up taking
everyone with them down a useless path of time wasted.
But someone needs to "dig in" at BCWF nd start pointing folks in the right direction at their own table!

[Mulehahn]

My only concern/query regarding this proposal is the timing. I am sure it is not sudden as this sort takes consideration, including the inevitable fall out. That being said, why was it proposed a little over so close to the Region 2 AGM. As many know, after previous events the attendance of the lower mainland AGM is down significantly in recent in recent years.

I know Mark, I respect mark. But don't believe that this, or many resolutiion presented at this AGM would receive the proper debate they deserve, especially ones presented so late.

[Wild one]

With BCWF’s long history of anti archery only opportunities I don’t think people should have much fear in the BCWF taking a proposal to remove crossbows from archery season beyond a proposition from a regional level

It would be more likely for the BCWF to attempt getting shotguns included in the 9 day archery/youth/crossbow season ;)

[Gateholio]

The biggest opposition to crossbows in bow season have always come from bowhunters that don't like crossbows. I don't recall the BCWF ever trying to curtail their use in bow season in the past.

I am sure there are still some bowhunters would be salivating at the idea of the getting rid of crossbows.

[scoutlt1]

Not to "assume", but I would think that any changes (proposed or otherwise) in hunting regulations are/should be based on the interests of wildlife...???

Is the allowance of crossbow use during the "archery only" season truly detrimental to wildlife (populations) in any way?

[Deaddog]

BAN
The biggest opposition to crossbows in bow season have always come from bowhunters that don't like crossbows. I don't recall the BCWF ever trying to curtail their use in bow season in the past.



Do you recall bcwf ever doing anything for Wildlife we hunt?

[Gateholio]

Not to "assume", but I would think that any changes (proposed or otherwise) in hunting regulations are/should be based on the interests of wildlife...???

Is the allowance of crossbow use during the "archery only" season truly detrimental to wildlife (populations) in any way?

That's one of the real questions, and while looking at modern crossbow technology, modern compound technology needs to be looked at too. If it's not a conservation concern, then we probably don't need to have a discussion about it.

The other question is - are bow only seasons designed to provide hunter opportunity without excessive harvest, or are they to allow bow hunters an exclusive season? Depending on the season, it's probably a bit of both.

[willyqbc]

And good posts Willy - nice to hear from an expert

HaHa! I'm hardly an expert, just another guy like any other on here that chose to get involved.

Which brings me to my next point. The BCWF is not some anonymous entity....it is a collection of members. The folks who end up sitting at the table with the ministry are not "experts", they are everyday folks like you and me that were elected from the membership. Quite often, they come directly from local rod and gun club members. Now, if you've never been to your local rod and gun club meetings, or regional BCWF meetings....from my experience a lot of times you're lucky to have a dozen people show up. These dozen people are formulating proposals to suggest to the ministry....why?.....BECAUSE THEY SHOWED UP!!!!

now, please don't interpret my post above as me being pissed with those gentlemen who sat across the table from me, they had my utmost respect for the simple reason that they were willing to take it upon themselves to GET INVOLVED!!! which is something 97% of hunters in this province do not do. Was I disapointed they didn't share the same vision or objectives that I did...sure....but I don't believe it was malicious. While I believe it may have been misguided or short sighted, I do believe they felt they were doing what they thought was best.

So, given that the BCWF is "the" most recognized "voice of the resident hunter" by our gov't.....if you want to effect change, and are not happy with the direction it is taking.....I strongly urge you to GET INVOLVED. If enough like minded individuals from just the HBC membership started to go to their local BCWF meetings, and standing for positions, you could quite rapidly change the direction of the BCWF. I can't stress this enough.... the BCWF is a collection of members, and any member who WANTS TO, gets to have a say.....BUT YOU GOTTA SHOW UP!!!

Final thing I will say for now, the BCWF does not drive changes in our seasons or opportunities. Like every other user group at the table, all they can do is make suggestions to the ministry staff. And I can tell you from experience, the only suggestions taken are those that align with what the ministry was allready going to do. Consultation with user groups is very often little more than window dressing.

JMO

[boxhitch]

Do you recall bcwf ever doing anything for Wildlife we hunt?Is that in the BCWF vision or mission statement ?
Isn't the Fed first and foremost a hunter and angler advocacy group?

[Foxton Gundogs]

Is that in the BCWF vision or mission statement ?
Isn't the Fed first and foremost a hunter and angler advocacy group?

They have stated many times that the are not a hunter's organization, they are a conservation organization. So the short answer would be no. I don't believe there is one single mention of "hunter/hunters" in their "vision/mission statement"

[willyqbc]

Is that in the BCWF vision or mission statement ?
Isn't the Fed first and foremost a hunter and angler advocacy group?

https://bcwf.bc.ca/vision-mission-values/

[Stone Sheep Steve]

HaHa! I'm hardly an expert, just another guy like any other on here that chose to get involved.

Which brings me to my next point. The BCWF is not some anonymous entity....it is a collection of members. The folks who end up sitting at the table with the ministry are not "experts", they are everyday folks like you and me that were elected from the membership. Quite often, they come directly from local rod and gun club members. Now, if you've never been to your local rod and gun club meetings, or regional BCWF meetings....from my experience a lot of times you're lucky to have a dozen people show up. These dozen people are formulating proposals to suggest to the ministry....why?.....BECAUSE THEY SHOWED UP!!!!

now, please don't interpret my post above as me being pissed with those gentlemen who sat across the table from me, they had my utmost respect for the simple reason that they were willing to take it upon themselves to GET INVOLVED!!! which is something 97% of hunters in this province do not do. Was I disapointed they didn't share the same vision or objectives that I did...sure....but I don't believe it was malicious. While I believe it may have been misguided or short sighted, I do believe they felt they were doing what they thought was best.

So, given that the BCWF is "the" most recognized "voice of the resident hunter" by our gov't.....if you want to effect change, and are not happy with the direction it is taking.....I strongly urge you to GET INVOLVED. If enough like minded individuals from just the HBC membership started to go to their local BCWF meetings, and standing for positions, you could quite rapidly change the direction of the BCWF. I can't stress this enough.... the BCWF is a collection of members, and any member who WANTS TO, gets to have a say.....BUT YOU GOTTA SHOW UP!!!

Final thing I will say for now, the BCWF does not drive changes in our seasons or opportunities. Like every other user group at the table, all they can do is make suggestions to the ministry staff. And I can tell you from experience, the only suggestions taken are those that align with what the ministry was allready going to do. Consultation with user groups is very often little more than window dressing.

JMO

This^^^^
Like John Holdstock always said...”The world is run by those that show up”. Not sure if he coined that phrase or just repeated it but it’s spot on.

But it always so much easier to do nothing and throw rocks from the outside.
I’m baffled by how so many people are on here are so ignorant this of the process of how regulation proposals become regulations.

SSS
You want a voice? Show up.

[bearvalley]

This^^^^
Like John Holdstock always said...”The world is run by those that show up”. Not sure if he coined that phrase or just repeated it but it’s spot on.

But it always so much easier to do nothing and throw rocks from the outside.
I’m baffled by how so many people are on here are so ignorant this of the process of how regulation proposals become regulations.

SSS
You want a voice? Show up.

This is true....if you want a voice....show up....in person.
That said, not all regions of this province look at the organization being discussed in this thread as the end all spokesman for hunters in this province.
As the concept of regional wildlife roundtables continues to grow this becomes more and more apparent.
Show up and voice your own opinion on what needs done.....some guy living at the opposite end of the province doesnt always speak right for what goes on in your backyard.

[Bubbacanuck]

The biggest opposition to crossbows in bow season have always come from bowhunters that don't like crossbows. I don't recall the BCWF ever trying to curtail their use in bow season in the past.

I am sure there are still some bowhunters would be salivating at the idea of the getting rid of crossbows.

If that took place and bow hunters were able to have crossbows removed from bow season, I would rally every single rifle hunter possible to completely eliminate any bow seasons out of spite! This purist logic is total BS. I highly caution segregation. It reminds of when snowboarding came out and all of a sudden there were ski only mountains. Those 'salivating' bow hunters need a good slap up side the head.

[Wild one]

This^^^^
Like John Holdstock always said...”The world is run by those that show up”. Not sure if he coined that phrase or just repeated it but it’s spot on.

But it always so much easier to do nothing and throw rocks from the outside.
I’m baffled by how so many people are on here are so ignorant this of the process of how regulation proposals become regulations.

SSS
You want a voice? Show up.

When you show up and try to be heard without being part of the “click” you can also be met with childish BS. Most want only “yes men” and not people with different views. Yes showing up is a big part but it’s more then that. It’s that simple if you are a follower but if you seek change now you are often in for a long battle or a popularity contest

This is common with all organizations not just the BCWF

[Wild one]

If that took place and bow hunters were able to have crossbows removed from bow season, I would rally every single rifle hunter possible to completely eliminate any bow seasons out of spite! This purist logic is total BS. I highly caution segregation. It reminds of when snowboarding came out and all of a sudden there were ski only mountains. Those 'salivating' bow hunters need a good slap up side the head.

You would not be attempting anything new there is a reason BC has almost no archery season compared to the rest of North America. But odds are you have no clue about the BS in BC regarding archery opportunities. I am not an anti crossbow guy and don’t care about there involvement in archery season.

But grab your pitch fork and giver :roll:

[338win mag]

Reading this thread, I do wonder why a proposal such as this can even make it past "coffee talk" as it stinks badly of one group needing to get off their high horse they rode in on.
It reminds me of the guy who was on CBC radio last year slagging hunters about their big guns and big scopes, then admitting he was a bow hunter....so pure.
well guess what?.... arrows hurt.... and would rather be killed with a bullet than an arrow anyday.

[willyqbc]

I'm not saying effecting change would be easy wild one, but often in these meetings, which are generally poorly attended, gathering a half dozen like minded individuals to join you can often sway the vote. Simple democracy....bring enough folks with you to out vote those you disagree with

[Wild one]

I'm not saying effecting change would be easy wild one, but often in these meetings, which are generally poorly attended, gathering a half dozen like minded individuals to join you can often sway the vote. Simple democracy....bring enough folks with you to out vote those you disagree with

I agree and was considering that even looking into who to make a stand with but do to non hunting related reasons I decided to go back to Alberta. I was actually really disappointed when I investigated BCs hunting orgs do to people with bad blood pushing their agenda and poor overall involvement by B.C. hunters. I could have been more help with the latter

I made the call to leave BC behind so that ship has sailed with me.

[biggyun68]

There are many states and provinces that don’t allow crossbows during archery season. Looks like I’ll get some flack for saying this but I know myself and many other bow hunters would have no problem at all with banning crossbows during archery season

Why have an archery only season period. I know as a fire arm hunter I would have no problem with this.
Oh I am sorry yes I would because banning anybody from hunting in an opening they have already been included in for decades for anything less than scientifically proven evidence that points to a negative impact on conservation is elitist and an ATTACK ON ALL HUNTERS.

We are trying to provide more accessibility to hunters not less...

This resolution had nothing to do with fair chase or conservation and therefore should never have been on the agenda because it is not in the BCWF's scope

[J_T]

Always interesting to see the emotion that leads to assumptions while we strive to protect our corner.

Some of you might be interested in the fact that in Region 6, the BCWF clubs put forth a recommendation to remove crossbows from the archery season. While they talked about over harvest, it seemed, the truth lay in early disturbance of the population and impacting the start of GOS.

The UBBC took a firm position there was no conservation concern and until such time as we had data to render a decision, no change should occur. The regional biologist thought he was doing everyone a favour by coming down the middle and proposing an LEH as a logical solution. It doesn't take much to see that Government would like to control hunters and harvests. The UBBC stayed firm that any change, without statistical data was inconsistent with the direction and objectives 'everyone' generally has agreed to.

There are two reasons to consider inclusion or exclusion of a weapon. Conservation and Fair Chase. Conservation objectives should be based in data collection and results, while Fair Chase should start from the common ground of agreeing to the criteria to render a decision.

The Province initiated a 'Fair Chase' discussion one year ago. The UBBC ensured representation from all regions. Other participants seemed to keep the discussion singular and close and not consult with constituents. This is understandable as rumours do tend to take off in a variety of directions and just like this thread, can difficult to manage.

The "Hunting Practices" committee has completed it's year long discussion and submitted it's recommendations to the Province. These recommendations are going to be available for review asap on the public engagement site.

There is a legitimate discussion to be had over the efficiency of crossbows as they pertain to early season moose hunting. In both R6 and R4 crossbow enthusiasts take full advantage of the ability to hunt moose in the archery only Bow Only Season (BOS). From a conservation perspective, seasons that hunt a shoulder season, or when animals are more vulnerable, are targeted for short range weapons. When weapons, technology and advancements shift a hunt from a short range hunt to a mid range or long range hunt, it is intelligent and responsible to keep a vigil on the objective. It's no different than the discussion that should be omnipresent about GOS rifle hunting in the rut. We're experiencing population decline. What data is there to clarify the impact of GOS?

[limit time]

UNDRIP....... the end.

[Bugle M In]

Well, firstly, the issue of regulations always falling way behind "new technology" is nothing new!
Look, we have peddle assist bikes. and has been discussed many times now for a few years now on HBC, but the ministry does nothing.
Same could be said for the Crossbow, and the fact that they have advanced/improved so much, that again, the ministry has dragged their
feet on deciding what the limits should be for them.
Should it have been 300 ft per second?? or what.
They are easier to use...period and I have done both, with a bad shoulder or not.
And yes, I believe there are some out there that see bow hunters early season as affecting their hunt at the start of rifle season.
I can tell the difference between and opening day for everyone and an opening 10 days after another one.
So, lets just stop there before it becomes a huge debate.
Technology always beats out Rules, but here they wait way to long to establish them....period.

And secondly, like Willy said, you/we have to show up to these meetings.
And yes, it is true, the 2 or 3% that complain, are the ones that "show up" and they are the ones that get heard.
No different then our elections and some of the BS policies that get put into place.
Who do you think runs for politics...?????
Some in that 3%!!!!!
Wonder why we never get heard to "reason".....

[boxhitch]

They have stated many times that the are not a hunter's organization, they are a conservation organization. So the short answer would be no. I don't believe there is one single mention of "hunter/hunters" in their "vision/mission statement"where and when have they said that they are not? references please

"promote the wise use.........ensure public access.........to fish and wildlife resources
advocate for the public interest in natural resources.......provide science based solutions........support conservation education........provide advice and experience representing conservation"

speaks more to people than it does to making more wildlife or habitat

Committees include Recreation Sport Shooting, Firearms , sustainability and access , fisheries, Wildlife and Allocations to address the challenges against hunting ,

no Build More Wildlife committee

I know the Fed stands behind conservation efforts, and throws in support where it can, but I don't see them driving the bus
Not surprising really because for the most part their hands are tied when it comes to actually performing a task on the ground by the fact the Govt wants to be the lead on the actual work front
So Govt does a burn or a stream restoration or sheep relocation with the Fed blessing and physical support

Not trying to be obtuse here, just showing how it looks

[Bugle M In]

Everybody needs to understand when it comes to BCWF, that they comprise of hunters for sure, but their mandate and structure is such that
they are there to support "wildlife".
They do their best to help hunters for sure, but definitely they have a lack of say anymore.
At one time I think they had way more influence.
Noe it is all about the FN when it comes to such matters and the Government (regardless of party)
And the reason why is simple, the FN is a much bigger organization with a lot more "legal power" now.
Pretty much leaves the BCWF in the dust, imo.

But, they know that they are not a "hunter represented" organization at all.
They may have acted as such back in the day, and I think members have themselves in p[art to blame to "think" that BCWF was a
hunter organization, representing them.
Nothing wrong with BCWF acting as a representative for wildlife, it is definitely needed, just sadly they don't have the power they once had.
But, then when we discuss the OP, and whether crossbows should be allowed, well I think now they have crossed the line from wildlife
to what hunters should do.
And I think this issue is just a way to "limit" what hunters can do, and I find it surprising that it is even being discussed.
Guess it might be because Alberta has different rules and Crossbows are not allowed unless you have a medical issue.

Support the BCWF for wildlife, just like the WSS or RMEF etc.
But time to support a "hunter organization" that operates in BC.
I have seen thee is another group on FB now called "Hunters for BC"

In todays climate with hunting under the microscope by Antis' and the FN power play of late, it is going to be an uphill battle.
Discussing crossbows and their use is just useless at this time.
I have very little belief that resident hunting will overcome the issues to be honest.
If someone doesn't step in somewhere soon, we are going to get trampled big time!

[ryanonthevedder]

What about a cross bow and muzzle loader season?

[LBM]

See on the news that they found a sea lion shot with a crossbow.

[limit time]

See on the news that they found a sea lion shot with a crossbow.

Sea lion gate was an inside job !

[todbartell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA01P2TApZk

[fuzzybiscuit]

See on the news that they found a sea lion shot with a crossbow.

So what are you inferring...? Or is this just another session of “Deep thoughts by LBM”...

[Bugle M In]

So what are you inferring...? Or is this just another session of “Deep thoughts by LBM”...

:razz:………………..;)

[Downtown]

Personally, I'm happy that the OP brought it forward and I would hardly call it over dramatizing. I look at it as closing the gate before the sheep got out.
And I would not put it above some people to rubber stamp it at a regional meeting to get it on the resolution list and we all know how things can be missed when those resolutions can slide past "home" at the club meetings where resolutions are approved for the AGM. We just don't need it on the approved resolutions list.
And this I can tell you. I am both a bow and a rifle hunter, well now crossbow. I have never looked down on a person for their choice although I think archers are better hunters and that's because they have to get closer to the game, to see the whites of their eyes.
Hunting has evolved in all aspects, not just bows and crossbow, but rifles and optics including range finders and thermal imaging as well. It just makes no sense to put further limitations on hunting as the government and their greenlings are doing a fine job.


Exactly.
Where is the Like Button ?

Cheers

[sthdslayer]

Well here its is

Current Regulations:
There are currently no regulations that prohibit the use of a scope on archery equipment during bow only seasons.



Proposed Regulations:
Prohibit the use of scopes on bows during bow-only seasons



Rationale:
This proposed regulation was requested by the Provincial Hunting and Trapping Advisory Team. For more information on the process that led to the request refer to the “Additional Information” section at the bottom of this page.
Crossbow technology has advanced in recent years and their operation has become easier; some users consider a modern crossbow to be more similar to a firearm than a bow. There is mixed support for crossbows during bow only seasons; many jurisdictions have prohibited crossbows during bow only seasons. In B.C., crossbows are still permitted. As a compromise between permitting and prohibiting crossbows during bow only seasons, it is proposed to reduce the effectiveness of modern versions of these weapons by prohibiting scopes.
Bow only seasons are intended to be short range (i.e. around 40 yards) hunting opportunities, and often allow hunting for classes of species (i.e. any buck or antlerless deer) that are not open through general open seasons when firearms are permitted. Historically, this opportunity was in place simply because the success rates of bow hunters was much lower than that of hunters with firearms. Advancements in crossbow technology has increased the range of crossbows closer to 100 yards, which was not considered when instituting short-range hunting seasons in the past. Prohibiting scopes on bows is thought to bring crossbows back into the short-range weapon category.
Under this proposed regulation the use of scopes on bows would only be prohibited during bow only seasons; scopes on bows would continue to be permitted during general open seasons.

[guest]

Way to go PHTAT !

Thanks for nothing, thanks for pinning more regulation that means nothing but putting more wounded animals in the bush.

Shame on you all that have brought this forward! Your Elitism reeks right now .

SENSELESS changes requested by PHTAT are putting hunter vs hunter. Whats next? Give your Heads a Shake !

[Gateholio]

Let's keep all the scopes on crossbow discussion in the threads that are already on this topic.