Motorized vehicle restrictions

[ratherbefishin]

I see a lot of these off limits areas ,presumably to protect game from being exploited by increased access, or, protecting habitat from sensitive area being torn up.The latter I can understand since Yahoos with no consideration can tear up ground causing erosion.But I’m not so sure quads give a significant advantage to hunters,simply because deer quickly learn to stay off roads. We’ve had good success by just getting off the road and hiking back a short distance where the road and quads hunters see nothing. Quads are very useful for getting game out,which is really what I want,can’t throw a buck over my shoulders and hike out like I used to. I do admit enjoying the quiet of hunting in a no vehicle area,nothing more annoying than getting up early,hiking back only to be passed by some noisy off road motor bike.Those old Honda 110s were perfect for getting back in the bush ,not sure what replaced them,or whether we will see electric off road bikes in the near future.

[Edzzed]

They already have electric off road atv's https://www.whatis180.com/best-electric-all-terrain-vehicles/ and off road motorcycles. https://autowise.com/top-electric-dirt-bike-machines/ I think the issue is with tearing up the ground cover. And my klr 650 is pretty quiet overall. It is the 2 stroke dirt bikes that are generally noisy.

[LuckyHorseshoe]

Be careful there. Motorized is motorized, there’s grey areas when it comes to electrics. It’s still a motor

[Bugle M In]

To be honest, I have looked hard at some of the areas in the EK that have Vehicle restrictions etc.
Sure, one could say it was to protect habitat, but back in it's inception, things like ATV's did not exist!

So, why the closures???
In part to limit the amount of hunters in the back country, thus more game in the end, but that turned out to be BS, as that is not what has happened.

BUT, I looked at the areas in question a little harder this past season.
I think the real reason some of theses areas became restricted was to make it harder for hunters to reach areas of good Goat and Sheep Populations, more than trying to protect MD, Moose or Elk.
Instead of being able to drive up to the foot of a mtn and then begin your hike up, you may have to hike/pack up 20+km first before you can consider the hike up the mtn.

New restrictions, like in the 3-28, 3-29, and no use of ATV/ORV are legit, in the fact that the fires have created open ground and some ATV/ORV users have definitely displayed over the past 25 years that they cant just "stay on the road" etc.
Unfortunate, but true.

May a good areas that one had to hike up to get to the honey holes have been lost due to ATV making trails and thus easy access into.
If they would just stay on the roads, I have no issues, but some still choose to do whatever they want.
So, now we see more closures and will continue to see their uses become more and more limited I suspect.

[Bugle M In]

Be careful there. Motorized is motorized, there’s grey areas when it comes to electrics. It’s still a motor

Yup...…………………………….electric is a motor.

[ratherbefishin]

To me it’s just a bias in favour of horses and restricting access ,the ordinary guy can’t afford to either own horses,or hire a packer

[Aaron600]

I see a lot of these off limits areas ,presumably to protect game from being exploited by increased access, or, protecting habitat from sensitive area being torn up.The latter I can understand since Yahoos with no consideration can tear up ground causing erosion.But I’m not so sure quads give a significant advantage to hunters,simply because deer quickly learn to stay off roads. We’ve had good success by just getting off the road and hiking back a short distance where the road and quads hunters see nothing. Quads are very useful for getting game out,which is really what I want,can’t throw a buck over my shoulders and hike out like I used to. I do admit enjoying the quiet of hunting in a no vehicle area,nothing more annoying than getting up early,hiking back only to be passed by some noisy off road motor bike.Those old Honda 110s were perfect for getting back in the bush ,not sure what replaced them,or whether we will see electric off road bikes in the near future.

I started finally getting game after buying my atv. Huge advantage if you use your atv wisely. I use mine to get up to high alpine my truck won't fit and from there I hike in off the quad trails. It would take me 4 hours to hike to my spot that my atv can get to in 45 mins. You still need to get off and go for a hike. We keep ours on the trail. A few bad apples spoil the bunch for the rest of us.

[walks with deer]

many zones its great...in some zones its to make it easier for the guides..3-28-3-29 its needed aswell as numerous other zones..the animals need some quite areas...tie up the boots and grab your pack.

i would like to see more roads decomishioned.

[SemperAurum]

Many motor vehicle restrctions have been initiated by GOABC members. Others were initiated by self interested rod and gun club members who selfishly want the places to themselves.

Places like the upper Elk Valley, Flathead, Quesnel Lake to name a few. Did I happen to mention upper elk valley???

Its to keep BC tax paying hunters out and to keep the clients of the guides happy.

Oh boy I could go on as this topic is near and dear to my old heart and pisses me right off. Many of us older hunters and new hunters cant go and enjoy the places any more. It also concentrates many hunters into smaller areas and the wildlife gets thumped.

[Drillbit]

Many motor vehicle restrctions have been initiated by GOABC members. Others were initiated by self interested rod and gun club members who selfishly want the places to themselves.

Places like the upper Elk Valley, Flathead, Quesnel Lake to name a few. Did I happen to mention upper elk valley???

Its to keep BC tax paying hunters out and to keep the clients of the guides happy.

Oh boy I could go on as this topic is near and dear to my old heart and pisses me right off. Many of us older hunters and new hunters cant go and enjoy the places any more. It also concentrates many hunters into smaller areas and the wildlife gets thumped.

That's my experience too. In 5-13 the guides had it closed when atv's were showing up in the mid 80's.

Now that area is LEH. If they have an allocation for moose tags, why do they need to limit atv's these days now that the gos is over?

[ratherbefishin]

I’m 72 and just can’t pack game out of areas I once hiked into.An ATV allows me to pack an animal out

[Treed]

I humped my sorry ase up a Mnt for 3 hours last fall. Was sitting down feeling good about myself only to find an almost octogenarian huffing up behind me. That was inspirational! I’m fine with ATVs used legally but there is so much illegal trail cutting and use in sublpine/alpine areas. Not cool for those who abide by the regs to find a quad up in a subalpine bowl. Happened to me three weeks ago.

[Gateholio]

Lots of the closures are comical when you have heli drops for mountain bikers way higher than any atv restrictions.

[303savage]

ATVs aren't the real problem, The real problem is IDIOTS ON ATVs and in 4x4s that like to tear up the country by seeing if they can climb that hill or drive threw that swamp.

[SemperAurum]

ATVs aren't the real problem, The real problem is IDIOTS ON ATVs and in 4x4s that like to tear up the country by seeing if they can climb that hill or drive threw that swamp.

I have never seen mountain bikers dig up pristine mountain terrain with picks and shovels or build huge jumps by digging and moving the earth.

Same goes for outfitters and guides. They never cut trails or disturb the earth.

[MRP]

Snowmobiles were band in the summer and fall a long time ago. The a sled with the old bogey track suspension with wheels on the front was getting quite popular in late 60s. Protest about to eazy access to back county hunting brought a ban on them. I like my quad but I think some places need to be of limits. The guys with the mud bogger mentality drive me crazy. Trails I used for years on a 3 wheeler got distorted in no time by quad riders that must pin the throttle in ever puddle or stream until it becomes a soup hole that no one can get through.

[REMINGTON JIM]

I humped my sorry ase up a Mnt for 3 hours last fall. Was sitting down feeling good about myself only to find an almost octogenarian huffing up behind me. That was inspirational! I’m fine with ATVs used legally but there is so much illegal trail cutting and use in sublpine/alpine areas. Not cool for those who abide by the regs to find a quad up in a subalpine bowl. Happened to me three weeks ago.

Did You take pictures and REPORT Them ? RJ

[Squamch]

ATVs aren't the real problem, The real problem is IDIOTS ON ATVs and in 4x4s that like to tear up the country by seeing if they can climb that hill or drive threw that swamp.

No the real problem is whiny people who can't stand anyone using the outdoors in a way they don't agree with.

Wanna go hiking? Cool. Horseback riding? Cool. Recreational shooting? Just be safe! Bird hunting during deer season? Do it. Dirtbiking during deer season? Yep, have fun. Wanna cut a 10' wide trail through the bush for wheeling? Ok. That little patch is NOTHING. Same for mountain biker's building jumps or ramps. It's such a tiny percentage of the land, it's purely a visual issue. Like hikers whining if they find a gut pile.

Mind your own business, have your fun, and let them have theirs.

[SemperAurum]

No the real problem is whiny people who can't stand anyone using the outdoors in a way they don't agree with.

Wanna go hiking? Cool. Horseback riding? Cool. Recreational shooting? Just be safe! Bird hunting during deer season? Do it. Dirtbiking during deer season? Yep, have fun. Wanna cut a 10' wide trail through the bush for wheeling? Ok. That little patch is NOTHING. Same for mountain biker's building jumps or ramps. It's such a tiny percentage of the land, it's purely a visual issue. Like hikers whining if they find a gut pile.

Mind your own business.

You make some very very good points here. Thank you. Selfish whinng and people not minding their own business is a huge driver of back country user conflcts.

This province has been decimated by logging activities. Just hop on a plane or look at Google Earth or take a drive on the thousands of miles of backcountry roads. Landscapes have been destroyed with no regard for drainage, stream management, or rehabilitation. And no fines to the forest companies or the third world loggers that do the dirty work for them.

[j270wsm]

No the real problem is whiny people who can't stand anyone using the outdoors in a way they don't agree with.

Wanna go hiking? Cool. Horseback riding? Cool. Recreational shooting? Just be safe! Bird hunting during deer season? Do it. Dirtbiking during deer season? Yep, have fun. Wanna cut a 10' wide trail through the bush for wheeling? Ok. That little patch is NOTHING. Same for mountain biker's building jumps or ramps. It's such a tiny percentage of the land, it's purely a visual issue. Like hikers whining if they find a gut pile.

Mind your own business, have your fun, and let them have theirs.

I recently went to south west Alberta dirtbiking for the first time. I was super excited about it because the atv club in that area has something like 2000km of marked trails. Well I can tell you that Ive never been so disgusted with what I saw. Trails that were so rutted out that they made a new trail beside he old one and this was done 3-4 times in some areas. My initial thoughts......” No wonder their back country use is being taken away “

As a responsible rider, I used to ride the single track trails around Door road but over time, some local and non local, idiots were continually hill climbing and making new trails which ended up getting the majority of the area closed down. There is now 1/10 of the trails left open to ride.

personally...I'm not against people using the back country....as long as they aren’t using it in a manner that will jeopardize everyone else’s future ability to use the back country.

[SemperAurum]

I recently went to south west Alberta dirtbiking for the first time. I was super excited about it because the atv club in that area has something like 2000km of marked trails. Well I can tell you that Ive never been so disgusted with what I saw. Trails that were so rutted out that they made a new trail beside he old one and this was done 3-4 times in some areas. My initial thoughts......” No wonder their back country use is being taken away “

As a responsible rider, I used to ride the single track trails around Door road but over time, some local and non local, idiots were continually hill climbing and making new trails which ended up getting the majority of the area closed down. There is now 1/10 of the trails left open to ride.

personally...I'm not against people using the back country....as long as they aren’t using it in a manner that will jeopardize everyone else’s future ability to use the back country.


I can agree with this 100%
The Albertan Scourge of the south east corner of BC has caused a multitude of back country problems.

Meanwhile, the coal mines destroy whole mountain ranges, disrupt migration corridors, destroy winter range and Tembec shreds the forest and that is deemed to be okay.

But if you dare hunt in MY spot with your atv it is considered to be unacceptable.

What a messed up little picture viewpoint.

[Bugle M In]

many zones its great...in some zones its to make it easier for the guides..3-28-3-29 its needed aswell as numerous other zones..the animals need some quite areas...tie up the boots and grab your pack.

i would like to see more roads decomishioned.

Roads "decommissioned keep "everyone out, but I fear we will see some areas with just "Gates" (and who holds the key???...hmmmm)

As to my 1st post, Goats and Sheep are the GO's (especially in the EK) bread and butter.
I am pretty certain that many years ago it was they that led the charge to have roads restricted to motorized vehicles.
And I am sure that the opinion was swallowed up by many of the hunters in the local R&G clubs in the area.
In a way, rationale thinking would say it made sense for sure, and I can see why many there supported it.

But, I think one thing no one saw, or could see coming (myself included) is that in a way, these closures made for excellent areas for Preds
like Wolves to flourish in, due to the lack of hunters getting back into that country due to closures.
In a way, the PReds can continually repopulate from those areas, and then expand outwards from.
The game as for as ungulates, have not flourished and if anything, diminished in those closures.

Actually, I don't even think the Goat and Sheep have excelled either due to it, or from it!
I think some areas even there numbers are lower then before.
Any guesses as to why???
Yup, most likely come winter, hit by preds.

Also agree, whats the point when these areas have been hammered by logging as well, which isn't looking like a benefit when it is "too much".

[caddisguy]

Around Pemberton now just say no access if there are Grizz around. Guilty of being in a vehicle and being white... big fine. Re-introducing grizz to the Cascades... get used to "you're not allowed to go there because of the endangered grizz we introduced" ... probably coming to the Chilliwack / Hope area soon as it has around Pemberton/Lillooet

[slowjo]

A policy analyst for the Ministry of Forests, Land and Natural Resources (FLNR) described to me the rational for Motor Vehicle for Hunting Closed areas as follows:

"Generally (if not always) a full prohibition on the use of motor vehicles, either seasonally or year-round, is in place to protect habitat. These can apply to specific lines (i.e. roads, trails) or polygons (i.e. watersheds, alpine areas)."

"The rational for Motor Vehicle for Hunting Closed Areas is generally social or to reduce harvest pressure in a specific area. In some areas access has increased in recent years which makes wildlife more vulnerable, motor vehicle for hunting closures are a tool in these situations to reduce hunter access into areas that were previously inaccessible by a motor vehicle. They are also in place to provide a diversity of hunting experiences (i.e. a road where they can walk, bike, or horseback into without seeing a quad every couple of kms)."

[dino]

No the real problem is whiny people who can't stand anyone using the outdoors in a way they don't agree with.

Wanna go hiking? Cool. Horseback riding? Cool. Recreational shooting? Just be safe! Bird hunting during deer season? Do it. Dirtbiking during deer season? Yep, have fun. Wanna cut a 10' wide trail through the bush for wheeling? Ok. That little patch is NOTHING. Same for mountain biker's building jumps or ramps. It's such a tiny percentage of the land, it's purely a visual issue. Like hikers whining if they find a gut pile.

Mind your own business, have your fun, and let them have theirs.

This is one more guy that gets it. I totally agree. I hike and hunt the sub alpine and alpine. The amount of damage the logging companies, the cows, horses, mountain bikes, mines, dams and all other legal entities do is massive comparred to offroaders. I couldnt care less what others do.

[slowjo]

Be careful there. Motorized is motorized, there’s grey areas when it comes to electrics. It’s still a motor

It is still a motor, however the main point of concern is the control, is a throttle used or is it pedal-assisted (i.e. the motor is not in use unless the rider is pedalling).

The province has already started to classify these bikes/vehicles into 3 classes.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/camping-and-hiking/rec-sites-and-trails/ebike_policy_final_04-25-2019.pdf

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/recreation/biking/

A class 1 can be used in BC parks and Rec Sites and Trails where mountain biking is already permitted.

The province has not yet created a policy with regards to e-bike classification and their use within Motor Vehicle for Hunting Closed Areas, and hopefully it will not be long until they do. But I am skeptical, I feel they will not create a policy and will leave it as a 'grey' topic and let CO's create their own opinions, which are likely to be similar to the one above....motors are motors.

Quads and dirtbikes with electric motors are 100% motor vehicles.

[warnniklz]

I'm still torn on motorized vehicle restrictions.

I spent a couple days hunting with someone. They were going on abut how they could fix an old washed out road to get to a hunting area on their quad.

A couple days later, back out hunting, they were sayin how you should be restricted to hunting at least a 100m even 200m off the road to limit people hunting on quads.

I pointed out how they're the first to try and take quads wherever they'really allowed to. Also one of their favourite hunting spots has no vehicle access and lots of non-locals hunt there.

It sucks when you'receive out hunting somewhere and someone comes blowing by you on a quad, but at the same time, it allows people who may have physical limitations get around in the bush. Also packing moose on a quad is a hell of a lot nicer on a quad... just not as fun.

[SemperAurum]

I am strongly in favour of abolishing all road closures for hunting and allowing people to drive on established roads and trails.

Being "local" does not mean crap all. We are all "local". I get really sick and tired of this local privilege garbage and protectionism. We are all BC residents and we can darn well hunt wherever we decide to hunt.

[HarryToolips]

^^^^biggest prob with quads though I see is those who don't respect it and then they start driving off existing roads and trails and then they are actually creating new trails, and then the next guy takes that trail and so on...I have even seen it in the alpine and it pisses a guy off......

[j270wsm]

I can agree with this 100%
The Albertan Scourge of the south east corner of BC has caused a multitude of back country problems.

Meanwhile, the coal mines destroy whole mountain ranges, disrupt migration corridors, destroy winter range and Tembec shreds the forest and that is deemed to be okay.

But if you dare hunt in MY spot with your atv it is considered to be unacceptable.

What a messed up little picture viewpoint.

Unfortunately it’s not only albertains( as much as I dislike most albertains ).
Yes the mines cut down mountains and have disrupted some migratory routes but they have also created a huge safe area for animals as well.
Locally....the areas that have seen the worst logging practices are private land.
90% of the upper elk valley and the entire fording valley are closed to motor vehicles with the exception of the main fsr and a few side roads, so the quad issue doesn’t really effect me.

[Whiterock]

I’m 72 and just can’t pack game out of areas I once hiked into.An ATV allows me to pack an animal out
I hear ya brother,,Im 68 and have the same problem,,still want to hunt,,but whats the point if I cant bring back the game. This " lace up the boots" was ok when I was younger,,but not now.

[Bugle M In]

A policy analyst for the Ministry of Forests, Land and Natural Resources (FLNR) described to me the rational for Motor Vehicle for Hunting Closed areas as follows:

"Generally (if not always) a full prohibition on the use of motor vehicles, either seasonally or year-round, is in place to protect habitat. These can apply to specific lines (i.e. roads, trails) or polygons (i.e. watersheds, alpine areas)."

"The rational for Motor Vehicle for Hunting Closed Areas is generally social or to reduce harvest pressure in a specific area. In some areas access has increased in recent years which makes wildlife more vulnerable, motor vehicle for hunting closures are a tool in these situations to reduce hunter access into areas that were previously inaccessible by a motor vehicle. They are also in place to provide a diversity of hunting experiences (i.e. a road where they can walk, bike, or horseback into without seeing a quad every couple of kms)."

The "Rationale" makes "total sense.
Onw would have to be an idiot to not think it couldn't be of benefit.
HOWEVER, this rationale only works when "Proper MANAGEMNT" of so called areas and surrounding areas is implemented and maintained.

Basically, in the end, that was what was "not done".
I think many thought it these restricted areas would "manage themselves"....
NOPE!!

And like many have said, you can restrict hunters, but many user groups, both for pleasure and industry "were not restricted".
So, basically, they are utterly useless as a way to protect wildlife, if one does not use proper "management tools".

[Kylek]

nothing better than hiking into a alpine area and setting up to glass then a quad buzzes straight into the meadow you are sitting over

[Jordan f.]

Plenty of places to hunt by ATV or truck. Having some areas that are quiet and still feel like you're in nature isn't a bad thing.

[Bugle M In]

I think the quads etc can just stick to the roads, all would be good.
I too have the odd spot were it was nice and peaceful, and a great honeyhole to hike into, but then the local dirt bike club (probably some
hunters in the club) worked a trail in and up to there.
Didn't take long for the quads to follow at that point, and haven't gone back since.

No need to stay in shape and even saw a 300 pound + hunter in a side by side who probably couldn't even walk 50 yards from it on his
own up there hunting.
He now had opportunity he never would have fathomed 40 years ago.
So much for atleast trying to get into shape?
(and I am not talking about those with a bad back, I understand that issue myself)

[Browning 3\d]

Just walk and you will get around then you don`t have to read signs

[SemperAurum]

The "Rationale" makes "total sense.
Onw would have to be an idiot to not think it couldn't be of benefit.
HOWEVER, this rationale only works when "Proper MANAGEMNT" of so called areas and surrounding areas is implemented and maintained.

Basically, in the end, that was what was "not done".
I think many thought it these restricted areas would "manage themselves"....
NOPE!!

And like many have said, you can restrict hunters, but many user groups, both for pleasure and industry "were not restricted".
So, basically, they are utterly useless as a way to protect wildlife, if one does not use proper "management tools".


This is a very intelligent and accurate post. Thank you.

The restricted areas are used for people management not wildlife management. So many areas of the wonderful province have had the wildlife populations decimated.

Bring back the grizzly hunt.

[backcountry99]

The "Rationale" makes "total sense.
Onw would have to be an idiot to not think it couldn't be of benefit.
HOWEVER, this rationale only works when "Proper MANAGEMNT" of so called areas and surrounding areas is implemented and maintained.

Basically, in the end, that was what was "not done".
I think many thought it these restricted areas would "manage themselves"....
NOPE!!

And like many have said, you can restrict hunters, but many user groups, both for pleasure and industry "were not restricted".
So, basically, they are utterly useless as a way to protect wildlife, if one does not use proper "management tools".

this is right on the money and with the sheer amount of access into the backcountry now days we need more of these restrictions especially on new roads but the areas need to be managed properly!

[SemperAurum]

Why do we need more access restrictions for human recreation??????

[Wild one]

Access restriction is the new fad to solve game populations decline. In the past it was we need fire, Kill the WT to save MD, funding and predators

Now it’s we must de activate roads and road closures are needed. I wonder what the new buzz solution will be in a few years

[SemperAurum]

1.) Ban deep snow and winter season

2.) Ban all vehicles from travelling on highways.

[dougan]

To me it’s just a bias in favour of horses and restricting access ,the ordinary guy can’t afford to either own horses,or hire a packer boots and a pack maybe a samich and bottle of water and your golden.

[limit time]

Access restriction is the new fad to solve game populations decline. In the past it was we need fire, Kill the WT to save MD, funding and predators

Now it’s we must de activate roads and road closures are needed. I wonder what the new buzz solution will be in a few years

It will be ALL LEH.

[SemperAurum]

You miss the pont completely wth this response.

Many folks are getting older and still like to get out and go to places. It is physically difficult for them to get to many of these places. It is very difficult if not impossible for many folks to retreive all edible portions of a carcass. I guarantee that most if not all young fellers fail to retreive all edible portions when they hike in like Mr. HeBoy Backpacker.

Vehicle Access restrictions imposed upon hunters have done absolutely nothing to enhance ungulate populations in this province. Absolutely nothing.

[Keta1969]

Why do we need more access restrictions for human recreation??????

There are no restrictions for human powered recreation. There are restrictions for mechanized human recreation and rightfully so. There will be more restrictions coming because of of the disregard of rules that are put in place to protect environmentally sensitive areas. Trails built into alpine areas and pristine meadows by one quad turn into highways by guys that are to lazy to get off and walk or just don't give a sh## and yes lots of them are hunters. While I don't care for quads because of this I'm not asking for a ban but if quad users don't figure it out that is what is coming because it's the only solution for a CO service that doesn't have the resources to make sure quads are staying on the roads.

[Kopper]

I guarantee that most if not all young fellers fail to retreive all edible portions when they hike in like Mr. HeBoy Backpacker.
Pretty bold assumption. It happens forsure, came across it this year, but I know nobody I hunt with falls short here. Not just talking the min legal requirements either.

[skibum]

Vehicle Access restrictions imposed upon hunters have done absolutely nothing to enhance ungulate populations in this province. Absolutely nothing.

Well they keep ATV out of the ATV restricted zone that I hunt. Lots of deer and I see few hunters where I hike. I am seeing a positive correlation between ATV use and game concentrations in these areas. According to the biologist, ATV restrictions are about reduced success rates, not about tearing up the landscape - at least in 3-28

Other side of coin is that I get a little jealous of the dudes that just bomb around on ATVs looking to scare game up, using a ground covered approach - while I spend hours hiking the back country. But that is only until my legs have recovered from the weekend - to each his own, I will get old someday too.

[backcountry99]

You miss the pont completely wth this response.

Many folks are getting older and still like to get out and go to places. It is physically difficult for them to get to many of these places. It is very difficult if not impossible for many folks to retreive all edible portions of a carcass. I guarantee that most if not all young fellers fail to retreive all edible portions when they hike in like Mr. HeBoy Backpacker.

Vehicle Access restrictions imposed upon hunters have done absolutely nothing to enhance ungulate populations in this province. Absolutely nothing.

i don’t think anyone missed your point we get it you’ve gotten old and lazy and need to be able to drive to the top of every mountain. Which is complete bullshit!

There are roads everywhere your old age is not limiting your hunting opportunity and animals should not be managed based on individual needs they need to be managed on what’s best for the game populations. And things have changed, predators are at an all time high, it’s not socially except able anymore to control there populations effectively. Burns are controlled rather then promoted for habitat growth. And new access roads into traditional habitat is not being controlled. These ungulates don’t have a chance with the liberal seasons and lack of management we have in B.C. There is a road circling every patch of timber left with a hunter sitting on either side and if somehow the animal is not legal to be harvested the wolves will get it anyhow.

we need to control what we can do as hunters we should all be harvesting predators to do our part we should be promoting conservation and if that means restricting access to sensitive habitat so be it. Wether your fit enough to walk in there or not we need to put the animals first!

[dmaxtech]

Found this an interesting read this morning related to access and success and game populations. https://thehunterconservationist.com/hunt-fish/is-your-mode-of-locomotion-impacting-your-hunting-success/

[Wild one]

i don’t think anyone missed your point we get it you’ve gotten old and lazy and need to be able to drive to the top of every mountain. Which is complete bullshit!

There are roads everywhere your old age is not limiting your hunting opportunity and animals should not be managed based on individual needs they need to be managed on what’s best for the game populations. And things have changed, predators are at an all time high, it’s not socially except able anymore to control there populations effectively. Burns are controlled rather then promoted for habitat growth. And new access roads into traditional habitat is not being controlled. These ungulates don’t have a chance with the liberal seasons and lack of management we have in B.C. There is a road circling every patch of timber left with a hunter sitting on either side and if somehow the animal is not legal to be harvested the wolves will get it anyhow.

we need to control what we can do as hunters we should all be harvesting predators to do our part we should be promoting conservation and if that means restricting access to sensitive habitat so be it. Wether your fit enough to walk in there or not we need to put the animals first!

so you don’t need access restrictions you need sound management, habitat protection, and predator control

Instead of beating around the bush and saying you want access restrictions just spit it out. You believe hunters are over harvesting do to the liberal seasons so you want to limit there impact with access restrictions. This will have minimal impact on your personal hunting and you won’t be interrupted either

Change is needed but there is ways to limit harvest where all hunters sacrifice equally instead

[skibum]

Change is needed but there is ways to limit harvest where all hunters sacrifice equally instead

We shouldn't be allowed to keep score either

[backcountry99]

so you don’t need access restrictions you need sound management, habitat protection, and predator control

Instead of beating around the bush and saying you want access restrictions just spit it out. You believe hunters are over harvesting do to the liberal seasons so you want to limit there impact with access restrictions. This will have minimal impact on your personal hunting and you won’t be interrupted either

Change is needed but there is ways to limit harvest where all hunters sacrifice equally instead

100% change is needed and I believe access restriction is a big part of it. A lot needs to be changed with our overly liberal seasons and we need to get these predators under control!

im not gonna get into the argument of which group will lose there opportunities. How to make it fair for everyone old and young because frankly I don’t care! I’m sick of the participation metal approach. The games needs are what needs to be put first and if Freddy can’t hunt an area because he’s not capable of getting off his quad then so be it because at the end of the day if we don’t take care of these animals there won’t be any there for Freddy whether he can drive to the top of the mountain or not!

[SemperAurum]

Found this an interesting read this morning related to access and success and game populations. https://thehunterconservationist.com/hunt-fish/is-your-mode-of-locomotion-impacting-your-hunting-success/


Excellent read. Thank you for that link.

I wonder how many 10's of kilometers wolves will cause an elk to flee, or how many 10's of kilometers a cow elk that is about to give birth travels while being followed around by bear.

Every large mature bull elk and his harem that I have spooked by walking into an area almost always vacate to the next valley over, if not further. Its what they do in narrow steep terrain. When I return a week later there is usually no sign of them. No poop. No tracks. No pee stains. No elk odor. nada. gonzo. outta here. An elk that is disturbed from his hidey hole by a master human predator gets the hell out of Dodge.

On the other hand, when I drive by in a truck or atv I usually find them again soon after they vacate.

[SemperAurum]

Deer and moose never go very far. They just hide more.

Sheep and goats go vertical and laugh at you

Elk are a cagey beast that will run overtop a mountain to escape the smell of a human's dirty butt. And if they see youu AND smell you, they will probably go two valleys over. When you walk into an elk's hidey hole it disturbs them really, really, really lots.

[Bugle M In]

Well they keep ATV out of the ATV restricted zone that I hunt. Lots of deer and I see few hunters where I hike. I am seeing a positive correlation between ATV use and game concentrations in these areas. According to the biologist, ATV restrictions are about reduced success rates, not about tearing up the landscape - at least in 3-28

Other side of coin is that I get a little jealous of the dudes that just bomb around on ATVs looking to scare game up, using a ground covered approach - while I spend hours hiking the back country. But that is only until my legs have recovered from the weekend - to each his own, I will get old someday too.

I thought last season, the ATV ban would result in me seeing less hunters.
Nope, I actually had more than ever.
But, it was quieter, and I think people covered less ground on any of those really old side roads.

I think folks with ATV's will probably see their ability to use them diminished more and more over the coming years.
Which is a shame as I do get why they are so popular.
I know an avid health/sheep hunter enthusiast, who could hike circles around anyone, and I mean that.
But the truth is, age catches up and he know uses a quad.
We will all get there, if your hunting passion is devoted enough, just some get to that point sooner than others.

ATV's having plates on them was a great thing as it is easier to report someone using them where they shouldn't.
With that in the past, I think moving forward, there has to be some real effort put towards atvs not leaving any roads, at any time of the year.
And, the only reason for that is to protect habitat, sensitive habitat like grasslands.

The same area I talked about with that 300 pound + hunter, well, it is a well known winter grown, and damn, those dirt bike clubs go up there
come winter time!!???
Even had a group of them camped by me and tell me how some don't go in there from fear of hitting a deer!
Which one has to ask, how can this be allowed???
He we restrict hunters, but no one else.

Again, it has to be a FULL management issue in place.
Not this little piece meal crap that does not work.
Not only do we have to get winter range back, we have to do a better job of protecting the ones we have from many user groups.
And without decent winter range, having mile and miles of restricted motor vehicle access in the backcountry, which is generally summer range, is completely useless if there is no game going back into the hinterland come spring.

Some of these policies are so old school.
What they failed to fathom back then with some of this stuff is that the government/ministry would walk away from all other avenues of
enhancing wildlife.
Why do you think I laugh at some talking about restricting this or restricting that (restricting hunters and bag limits) when that only works
when there are situations beyond anyones control like large winter die offs etc, and we may need to shut things down/limit to let the game/species in the area rebound again.
But everything else has to be in order, and that's not happening and is the BIG FAIL.

I would just like to see ATV/ORV stay on the roads.
Off of trails (other than designated) and definitely off of habitat that has neither for sure.
There is lots of work ahead for sure, but lets keep it real and not get overboard either.

[Wild one]

100% change is needed and I believe access restriction is a big part of it. A lot needs to be changed with our overly liberal seasons and we need to get these predators under control!

im not gonna get into the argument of which group will lose there opportunities. How to make it fair for everyone old and young because frankly I don’t care! I’m sick of the participation metal approach. The games needs are what needs to be put first and if Freddy can’t hunt an area because he’s not capable of getting off his quad then so be it because at the end of the day if we don’t take care of these animals there won’t be any there for Freddy whether he can drive to the top of the mountain or not!

Honestly my big issue with access restrictions is they do nothing but shift the pressure to other areas have a larger impact on surrounding populations. Simply put it does not solve anything it only moves the pressure. Basically you achieve a slight benefit to a small area well negatively impacting others. In the big picture of things you have accomplished nothing to change pressure and may actually be increasing pressure on more sensitive populations.

Might make you feel like something is being accomplished at best. You need to remember spreading pressure is a tool in limiting impact. There is not substitute for sound management when it comes to hunting impact

I am an on foot hunter 95% of the time with an ATV that has been on 5 hunts since 2005 so not trying to protect my style of hunting either

[backcountry99]

Honestly my big issue with access restrictions is they do nothing but shift the pressure to other areas have a larger impact on surrounding populations. Simply put it does not solve anything it only moves the pressure. Basically you achieve a slight benefit to a small area well negatively impacting others. In the big picture of things you have accomplished nothing to change pressure and may actually be increasing pressure on more sensitive populations.

Might make you feel like something is being accomplished at best. You need to remember spreading pressure is a tool in limiting impact. There is not substitute for sound management when it comes to hunting impact

I am an on foot hunter 95% of the time with an ATV that has been on 5 hunts since 2005 so not trying to protect my style of hunting either


I do not agree. I’m not talking about putting access restrictions on existing road that guys are already hunting to force them into new areas. I’m talking about putting access restrictions on new roads into sensitive habit that has seen very limited hunting pressure in the past. Basically leaving it status quo. Because we r blind if your not noticing how extensive the backcountry access roads have become in present times.

in no way do I think this is gonna fix all our problems but that is something as hunters we can control. Easy to make that happen in the regs. If I had my way we would have lots of full blown wilderness areas like the states, controlled burns every spring and eliminate the wolf problem by the most effective way possible.

But the mentallity of I need an opportunity to drive my quad everywhere so as that I get a fair chance to harvest an elk a whitetail buck and a whitetail doe and a muledeer buck and oh maybe an immature moose to is not helping anything. Tom Dick and Harry’s personal needs should be forgotten and the animals needs put first. And having 37 guys in f150’s be able to access the last ridge in an area without a road because of a new road everyday after work and this having every legal animal harvested is not helping anything! Restricting access to some areas is absolutely necessary unless we can implement bigger better management approach’s

[LBM]

I do not agree. I’m not talking about putting access restrictions on existing road that guys are already hunting to force them into new areas. I’m talking about putting access restrictions on new roads into sensitive habit that has seen very limited hunting pressure in the past. Basically leaving it status quo. Because we r blind if your not noticing how extensive the backcountry access roads have become in present times.

in no way do I think this is gonna fix all our problems but that is something as hunters we can control. Easy to make that happen in the regs. If I had my way we would have lots of full blown wilderness areas like the states, controlled burns every spring and eliminate the wolf problem by the most effective way possible.

But the mentallity of I need an opportunity to drive my quad everywhere so as that I get a fair chance to harvest an elk a whitetail buck and a whitetail doe and a muledeer buck and oh maybe an immature moose to is not helping anything. Tom Dick and Harry’s personal needs should be forgotten and the animals needs put first. And having 37 guys in f150’s be able to access the last ridge in an area without a road because of a new road everyday after work and this having every legal animal harvested is not helping anything! Restricting access to some areas is absolutely necessary unless we can implement bigger better management approach’s

Good post.

[SemperAurum]

I do not agree. I’m not talking about putting access restrictions on existing road that guys are already hunting to force them into new areas. I’m talking about putting access restrictions on new roads into sensitive habit that has seen very limited hunting pressure in the past. Basically leaving it status quo. Because we r blind if your not noticing how extensive the backcountry access roads have become in present times.

in no way do I think this is gonna fix all our problems but that is something as hunters we can control. Easy to make that happen in the regs. If I had my way we would have lots of full blown wilderness areas like the states, controlled burns every spring and eliminate the wolf problem by the most effective way possible.

But the mentallity of I need an opportunity to drive my quad everywhere so as that I get a fair chance to harvest an elk a whitetail buck and a whitetail doe and a muledeer buck and oh maybe an immature moose to is not helping anything. Tom Dick and Harry’s personal needs should be forgotten and the animals needs put first. And having 37 guys in f150’s be able to access the last ridge in an area without a road because of a new road everyday after work and this having every legal animal harvested is not helping anything! Restricting access to some areas is absolutely necessary unless we can implement bigger better management approach’s

Deep, deep, deep down in the inner heart of hearts of those in favour of access restrictions is the underlying desire to keep everyone else out of their favorite spots. It is a deep rooted human condition. Hunters despise the presence of other hunters in their spot.

Vehicle access restrictions for hunting has done nothing whatsoever to enhance ungulate populations in this province. Nothing.

[LBM]

Deep, deep, deep down in the inner heart of hearts of those in favour of access restrictions is the underlying desire to keep everyone else out of their favorite spots. It is a deep rooted human condition. Hunters despise the presence of other hunters in their spot.

Vehicle access restrictions for hunting has done nothing whatsoever to enhance ungulate populations in this province. Nothing.

And all the new roads and access are helping enhance ungulate populations how?
Many of those that think they should be allowed to go any where have no concern for wildlife or conservation.

[backcountry99]

Deep, deep, deep down in the inner heart of hearts of those in favour of access restrictions is the underlying desire to keep everyone else out of their favorite spots. It is a deep rooted human condition. Hunters despise the presence of other hunters in their spot.

Vehicle access restrictions for hunting has done nothing whatsoever to enhance ungulate populations in this province. Nothing.

This statement is nothing more than a tactic to ensure your best interests are looked after! Explain to me how cutting roads into every square inch of our province and allowing every hunter free reign is helping our game populations?

Clearly you believe that it’s your god given right as a B.C. resident to drive to the top of every mountain for 3 months in the fall harvesting any legal animal you can. Look at what the state’s and other provinces are doing. No we’re has 6 week rifle elk hunting seasons in the rut without access restrictions. And the elk are just a small example. All these areas limit hunting pressure. Either by LEH, very short seasons or wilderness reserves to restrict access. We in BC have GOS for the whole fall on any ungulate you want with almost zero access restrictions and now we have a predator problem. Of course we are running out of animals.

And idiots like you want more and more access until there’s gonna be nothing left. Hey while your at it I feel we should start harvesting cow elk and muledeer does on GOS tags cause it’s worked wonderfully with the white tails. Heck why not start shooting Ewes and remove curl restrictions on sheep and punch a road that runs right beside the kechika river cause it’s really not fair that guys with jet boats get all the access.......it’s all about me now cause I can’t afford a boat but should get to shoot Ewes right off that river from my pickup truck just the same.
Give your head a shake no ones trying to preserve there golden nugget hunting spot from you, we want to help our game populations before its to late!

[Bugle M In]

Ain't so much that the roads are the real problem.
The real problem is there ain't any trees left for the game to hide in!
No wonder the wolves etc have easy pickings come winter.
Miles of open country, once heavily treed, and if you don't watch your step where they left all the slag laying around,
you end up to your neck in snow, and so are the ungulates with a wolf standing there going "this was too easy".

Honestly, I remember hunting the Kettle one time.
Trucks driving all over the place.
Me, I just walked 200 yards parallels the roads in the timber, watching the deer watching the trucks!

It's when those same guys take their quads and go off the road that I have the real issue with.
As I stated before, a great area lost to guys patrolling every square inch, with NO ROAD!

Lets just start there.
And demolish some of the spur roads for sure, especially those wide fire perimeter roads they put everywhere.
Actually, I was glad to see they did that to a fire that happened last summer.
However, a different fire from a couple years ago, they just stick up signs.
What good is that going to do when one group doesn't have to abide by it, as well as some who legally should don't care either.

We have to remember, we aren't the only group using those backroads, lots of tourism type activity has taken over.
To be honest, some places I don't see hunters at all, but I see a lot of "outdoor enthusiasts"!

Again, lots of old vehicle restricted areas to choose from, and still no game!
Barely a hunter in there too!
So, why is it that those areas are so barren of game if that works so well everywhere else??

It's only a small part of the issue.
We have a big problem because we have a ton of different small problems (some bigger than others however) all happening at the same time.
Yes, money/funding is a big issue.
But expanding human population and townships turning into cities on prime winter range is the "big one"!

No where to hide, no where to eat when the going gets tough, and many not wanted (look at Cranbrook).
More game in town then out of town....why???

[358mag]

This statement is nothing more than a tactic to ensure your best interests are looked after! Explain to me how cutting roads into every square inch of our province and allowing every hunter free reign is helping our game populations?

Clearly you believe that it’s your god given right as a B.C. resident to drive to the top of every mountain for 3 months in the fall harvesting any legal animal you can. Look at what the state’s and other provinces are doing. No we’re has 6 week rifle elk hunting seasons in the rut without access restrictions. And the elk are just a small example. All these areas limit hunting pressure. Either by LEH, very short seasons or wilderness reserves to restrict access. We in BC have GOS for the whole fall on any ungulate you want with almost zero access restrictions and now we have a predator problem. Of course we are running out of animals.

And idiots like you want more and more access until there’s gonna be nothing left. Hey while your at it I feel we should start harvesting cow elk and muledeer does on GOS tags cause it’s worked wonderfully with the white tails. Heck why not start shooting Ewes and remove curl restrictions on sheep and punch a road that runs right beside the kechika river cause it’s really not fair that guys with jet boats get all the access.......it’s all about me now cause I can’t afford a boat but should get to shoot Ewes right off that river from my pickup truck just the same.
Give your head a shake no ones trying to preserve there golden nugget hunting spot from you, we want to help our game populations before its to late!
This is so very true , but backcountry49 you would be very surprised by how many hunters want just what you are talking about ^^^ ,so very sad to see .
Just look to Alberta to see how there once was a GOS like we have , but now its gone to a LEH for 90% for everything but Whitetail for most of the province .

[GreyDog]

To me it’s just a bias in favour of horses and restricting access ,the ordinary guy can’t afford to either own horses,or hire a packer
But he can afford a 15,000 dollar ATV, a trailer, and a 60,000 dollar truck? I know this may not apply to all or even most but it applies to an awful lot. Most can afford a pair of boots and a pack. GD

[GreyDog]

Why do we need more access restrictions for human recreation??????

We need more access restrictions for human recreation because said humans cannot be trusted not to screw up habitat if not restricted. GD

[Bugle M In]

There are a lot of changes needed, restricting access is not the end all be all of solutions, trust me.
I been fortunate I suppose to know what areas where like before vehicle closures and then after they were put in place.
And there has been so many changes/problems in those areas, just like much of the province, honestly, it is really hard to begin to decipher
which ones did the most damage.

These closure area had virtually 0 logging, or only a small percentage of that encapsulated territory at the time of closure inception.
At 1st, all was good and lack of traffic seemed like a good idea.
But, along comes beetle (who knows if logging was slated for those areas anyways regardless of beetle?), and they did "spot logging",
(which they soon realized was a lost cause).
I tell you, it made for some of the best hunting ever, both inside the closed areas and outside of them.
Is that due to lack of fires at the time??? (very well could be)
But, then they started to log, 10% of the watershed, then it was 20%, so on and so forth, to a point where I beg to argue up to 70% of it
removed, and yes, comes with lots of new spur roads, but don't forget, they are closed to the "hunting public".
And you know, some say the game was down appr. the same %....down 70% is what many were saying.
Leaves one to go …..hmmmmmm.

We all know logging can be a benefit, we have all taken game in those blocks.
And with them came all those roads.
So, how much is a good thing in an area, and when is too much too much?????? (talking timber, not roads, roads only happen due to timber removal).

Then came PReds, was that due to high game #'s or just easier success rates for preds, did it create safe havens?
How much is beetle problem, creating windfall and historic game trails to be destroyed.
Does the logging just create better habitat closer to towns, thus leaving traditional grounds in the back country barren, and ranchers and townships complaining?

It's just not that simple as a restriction here or there to fix it any longer.
And to think that implementing stuff towards hunters specifically is going to be the solution is absolutely foolish.
I wont use the term "head up your ass", as there is no comment more disrespectful then that to get the listener/reader to "shut down",
and stop listening/thinking because it shows 0 respect for others thoughts.
(and I know, those that use that saying don't generally give a shit about anyone or could care less, but then why should others care to listen?)


Last time I will say it, the regs are so big now compared to years ago, and yet game keeps disappearing.
When or what does it take for some to realize it is no longer a viable solution to the problem, and if anything, keeps us from addressing the
real problems by masking issues in "false hope".

[SemperAurum]

This statement is nothing more than a tactic to ensure your best interests are looked after! Explain to me how cutting roads into every square inch of our province and allowing every hunter free reign is helping our game populations?

Clearly you believe that it’s your god given right as a B.C. resident to drive to the top of every mountain for 3 months in the fall harvesting any legal animal you can. Look at what the state’s and other provinces are doing. No we’re has 6 week rifle elk hunting seasons in the rut without access restrictions. And the elk are just a small example. All these areas limit hunting pressure. Either by LEH, very short seasons or wilderness reserves to restrict access. We in BC have GOS for the whole fall on any ungulate you want with almost zero access restrictions and now we have a predator problem. Of course we are running out of animals.

And idiots like you want more and more access until there’s gonna be nothing left. Hey while your at it I feel we should start harvesting cow elk and muledeer does on GOS tags cause it’s worked wonderfully with the white tails. Heck why not start shooting Ewes and remove curl restrictions on sheep and punch a road that runs right beside the kechika river cause it’s really not fair that guys with jet boats get all the access.......it’s all about me now cause I can’t afford a boat but should get to shoot Ewes right off that river from my pickup truck just the same.
Give your head a shake no ones trying to preserve there golden nugget hunting spot from you, we want to help our game populations before its to late!


Were you fighting with your wife when you made this post? Very, very hostile and full of assumptions and false statements about me and my viewpoint and especially about wildlife management.

Motorized vehicle access by hunters has not caused the shocking decrease in ungulate populations in BC.

[twoSevenO]

But he can afford a 15,000 dollar ATV, a trailer, and a 60,000 dollar truck? I know this may not apply to all or even most but it applies to an awful lot. Most can afford a pair of boots and a pack. GD

You can own an ATV while you live in an apartment. Horse? ... not so much.

I have an ATV. I dont mind restrictions. Without a doubt certain wintering ranges that are restricted to ATVs would be DESTROYED if every Yahoo was allowed to rip around until he spotted a 4 point.

[backcountry99]

This is so very true , but backcountry49 you would be very surprised by how many hunters want just what you are talking about ^^^ ,so very sad to see .
Just look to Alberta to see how there once was a GOS like we have , but now its gone to a LEH for 90% for everything but Whitetail for most of the province .

That very much is the sad part is that most hunters are so fixated on what they need or want that they forget to care about what matters and that’s the game.

BC has a tremendous resource in its wildlife and as hunters we are spoiled in BC to think we can hunt 3 species of sheep with over the counter tags every year in this province and the list goes on and on. Provinces like Alberta, Saskatchewan and some of the states would give anything to have the opportunity that we as B.C. residents do the problem is we are not managing it and will loose these opportunities very fast if we don’t get on it!

Like it or not access restrictions do help if implemented properly and we should be pushing for bigger better restrictions that ensures a bright future for next generation of B.C. hunters. Man I would luv to see full on wilderness reserves like the states have, that combined with controlled burns we would be heading in the right direction!

[backcountry99]

Were you fighting with your wife when you made this post? Very, very hostile and full of assumptions and false statements about me and my viewpoint and especially about wildlife management.

Motorized vehicle access by hunters has not caused the shocking decrease in ungulate populations in BC.

Nope not fighting with my wife, fighting with a narrow minded fool that thinks us as hunters have had zero impact on animal declines it’s all someone else’s fault. Agreed there are a lot of problems adding up to this decline. But let’s work together to fix it rather then playing the poor me I’ve gotten old and need to drive to the top of every mountain with my truck card so let’s base our wildlife management on my personal needs not what’s best for the animals. And that’s not an assumption of your stance you mentioned it many times in this thread!

Animals needs first, hunters second and then there will be so many deer running around you’ll be able to stay on paved roads to fill your freezer if you want!

[LBM]

Nope not fighting with my wife, fighting with a narrow minded fool that thinks us as hunters have had zero impact on animal declines it’s all someone else’s fault. Agreed there are a lot of problems adding up to this decline. But let’s work together to fix it rather then playing the poor me I’ve gotten old and need to drive to the top of every mountain with my truck card so let’s base our wildlife management on my personal needs not what’s best for the animals. And that’s not an assumption of your stance you mentioned it many times in this thread!

Animals needs first, hunters second and then there will be so many deer running around you’ll be able to stay on paved roads to fill your freezer if you want!

Another good post

[SemperAurum]

Nope not fighting with my wife, fighting with a narrow minded fool that thinks us as hunters have had zero impact on animal declines it’s all someone else’s fault. Agreed there are a lot of problems adding up to this decline. But let’s work together to fix it rather then playing the poor me I’ve gotten old and need to drive to the top of every mountain with my truck card so let’s base our wildlife management on my personal needs not what’s best for the animals. And that’s not an assumption of your stance you mentioned it many times in this thread!

Animals needs first, hunters second and then there will be so many deer running around you’ll be able to stay on paved roads to fill your freezer if you want!

Yup you are a hostile, hot headed one for sure. lol

As a case in point: lets look at the Upper Elk Valley in 4-23. Motorized vehicle access restrictions for hunting have been in place since the 1980's. 35-40 years now. Most old roads are so grown in even the grizzles quit using them.

The guide outfitter in the area has not harvested any elk for 2 years. Not sure about moose. You should call him up and ask how the elk and moose hunting is. The big game is all but gone. Dont forget, this is a professional hunter, not a fat, old washed up, whining has-been driving around in an F150 like me.

Motorized vehicle hunting restrictions have done nothing to increase the ungulate populations and enhance hunting opportunty. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

Less big game now than ever in 100 years.

As for deer in an undisclosed area of region 3, I went out for a ride in my F150 last night for an hour and saw over 50 deer. All does. Fantastic! The nocturnal bucks will be able to breed them all - right beside the busy road. I never got out of the truck. All of them within 100m of busy roads. Also saw a dead doe on the highway. Must have been a fat, old whiny hunter in an F150 that hit her.

[Wild one]

Yup you are a hostile, hot headed one for sure. lol

As a case in point: lets look at the Upper Elk Valley in 4-23. Motorized vehicle access restrictions for hunting have been in place since the 1980's. 35-40 years now. Most old roads are so grown in even the grizzles quit using them.

The guide outfitter in the area has not harvested any elk for 2 years. Not sure about moose. You should call him up and ask how the elk and moose hunting is. The big game is all but gone. Dont forget, this is a professional hunter, not a fat, old washed up, whining has-been driving around in an F150 like me.

Motorized vehicle hunting restrictions have done nothing to increase the ungulate populations and enhance hunting opportunty. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

Less big game now than ever in 100 years.

I went out for a ride in my F150 last night for an hour and saw over 50 deer. I never got out of the truck. All of them withn 100m of busy roads.

There is truth to what he is saying and many examples of access restrictions with poor big game numbers.

Yaha tinda in Alberta is another great example.

[backcountry99]

Yup you are a hostile, hot headed one for sure. lol

As a case in point: lets look at the Upper Elk Valley in 4-23. Motorized vehicle access restrictions for hunting have been in place since the 1980's. 35-40 years now. Most old roads are so grown in even the grizzles quit using them.

The guide outfitter in the area has not harvested any elk for 2 years. Not sure about moose. You should call him up and ask how the elk and moose hunting is. The big game is all but gone. Dont forget, this is a professional hunter, not a fat, old washed up, whining has-been driving around in an F150 like me.

Motorized vehicle hunting restrictions have done nothing to increase the ungulate populations and enhance hunting opportunty. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

Less big game now than ever in 100 years.

As for deer in an undisclosed area of region 3, I went out for a ride in my F150 last night for an hour and saw over 50 deer. All does. Fantastic! The nocturnal bucks will be able to breed them all - right beside the busy road. I never got out of the truck. All of them within 100m of busy roads. Also saw a dead doe on the highway. Must have been a fat, old whiny hunter in an F150 that hit her.

The road restrictions in the upper elk valley were implemented to prevent ease of access to sensitive sheep habitat. We also have horn restrictions on rams and cannot harvest ewes. Sheep numbers are stable and actually increasing so your case in point is that these road restrictions have probably aided in successful management of sheep.

So now you wanna look at the elk and moose, clearly a predator problem the same predator problem we are having all over the province. So like I’ve said a few times I feel very strongly about controlling the predators with the most effective means possible. In these modern times those types of ideas don’t always fly so as hunters lets get together and try to make it happen and until then make sure we are getting out there and killing as many as we can.

Ive never once said road restrictions will solve all our problems but are a very necessary tool. My opinion is in a site by site basis every new logging road should have a discussion on what piece of country is being opened up by this road and in a case by case scenario decide if that area is sensitive habitat that cannot handle the increased hunting pressure it’s going to cause.

[GreyDog]

Often ATV access is a by product of forestry and/or mining exploration. Here, in the EK, Canfor is real good at opening access into areas and leaving it open. This year, they put a bridge into the Pollock Creek drainage and the road will certainly follow. With access into Pollock, access into St.Eloi and Packhorse is likely to come before long. GD

[dino]

Often ATV access is a by product of forestry and/or mining exploration. Here, in the EK, Canfor is real good at opening access into areas and leaving it open. This year, they put a bridge into the Pollock Creek drainage and the road will certainly follow. With access into Pollock, access into St.Eloi and Packhorse is likely to come before long. GD

Exactly! If people want to complain about atv access then maybe we should close all access. A road, path or trail is pretty much all the same thing. The hypocrisy runs deep with the pro restriction group.

[SemperAurum]

The road restrictions in the upper elk valley were implemented to prevent ease of access to sensitive sheep habitat. We also have horn restrictions on rams and cannot harvest ewes. Sheep numbers are stable and actually increasing so your case in point is that these road restrictions have probably aided in successful management of sheep.

So now you wanna look at the elk and moose, clearly a predator problem the same predator problem we are having all over the province. So like I’ve said a few times I feel very strongly about controlling the predators with the most effective means possible. In these modern times those types of ideas don’t always fly so as hunters lets get together and try to make it happen and until then make sure we are getting out there and killing as many as we can.

Ive never once said road restrictions will solve all our problems but are a very necessary tool. My opinion is in a site by site basis every new logging road should have a discussion on what piece of country is being opened up by this road and in a case by case scenario decide if that area is sensitive habitat that cannot handle the increased hunting pressure it’s going to cause.


Uh no. The access restrictions were put in to keep people out of the guide outfitters territory. It was a huge conflict of interest as outfitter was married to regional biologist.


As for sheep, The biggest and best rams were always harvested from the same spot. Everybody could sit in their F150 and bs and watch for them to appear and then race each other to the top. The big rams came overtop from Albertaville. There used to be good old fashioned fist fights over it.

Nowadays all of the sheep live on mine property and you cant hunt for them on mine property unless you shoot one while at work and bring it home in a barrel on the back of a service truck, or shoot one in a closed area and pack it on your back like neanderthal caveman and hope no one is looking.

[LBM]

Uh no. The access restrictions were put in to keep people out of the guide outfitters territory. It was a huge conflict of interest as outfitter was married to regional biologist.


As for sheep, The biggest and best rams were always harvested from the same spot. Everybody could sit in their F150 and bs and watch for them to appear and then race each other to the top. The big rams came overtop from Albertaville. There used to be good old fashioned fist fights over it.

Nowadays all of the sheep live on mine property and you cant hunt them unless you shoot one while at work and bring it home in a barrel on the back of a service truck, or shoot one in a closed area and pack it on your back like neanderthal caveman and hope no one is looking.

So your saying all sheep taken in that area now are taken illegally.

[SemperAurum]

So your saying all sheep taken in that area now are taken illegally.

You said that not me mr Wordsmith

[SemperAurum]

I fixed my post for you. Sorry I did not get a chance to finish high school. I had to work to pay for the F150 that I used for drive around and hunt from.

[backcountry99]

Uh no. The access restrictions were put in to keep people out of the guide outfitters territory. It was a huge conflict of interest as outfitter was married to regional biologist.


As for sheep, The biggest and best rams were always harvested from the same spot. Everybody could sit in their F150 and bs and watch for them to appear and then race each other to the top. The big rams came overtop from Albertaville. There used to be good old fashioned fist fights over it.

Nowadays all of the sheep live on mine property and you cant hunt them unless you shoot one while at work and bring it home in a barrel on the back of a service truck, or shoot one in a closed area and pack it on your back like neanderthal caveman and hope no one is looking.

Now that’s funny the way people like you can sway stories!!!! The regional biologist was not married to Bob Fontana when those road closures were put in place.? She was married to another outfitter at the time.

And how about the road closures in all the other sheep areas in the east kootenays what’s your BS story for those?

So tell me how road access restrictions do not help animals in any way especially in new previously inaccessible habitat? Particularly sensitive habitat. I’d really like to hear Your thoughts on that? We’ve all heard that your getting older and feel that all new roads should be open to allow u access and that backpack hunters don’t bring out there meat and that these are only private reserves for outfitters and horseback hunters. But really why do access restrictions not help game, let’s hear a real reason?

[SemperAurum]

curl and age restrictions do it for sheep unless the indians choose to kill young rams or ewes. Wolf and bear dont care.

Antler point tine restrictions work for elk and moose unless the indians choose to kill cows and young bulls. Wolf and bear dont care.

If a non- indgeness person drives their f150 into an area it does not mean they will kill a legally harvestable animal. It just means that they drove into the area. Killing a legal animal is a whole different ballgame.

[SemperAurum]

Much Game is dead and gone in BC. The dramatic and rapid reduction of ungulates was in no way, shape, or form, caused by hunters in cars, trucks, boats, atv's, planes, snowmobiles, or motorcycles.

[backcountry99]

curl and age restrictions do it for sheep unless the indians choose to kill young rams or ewes. Wolf and bear dont care.

Antler point tine restrictions work for elk and moose unless the indians choose to kill cows and young bulls. Wolf and bear dont care.

If a non- indgeness person drives their f150 into an area it does not mean they will kill a legally harvestable animal. It just means that they drove into the area. Killing a legal animal is a whole different ballgame.

Ok so you figure horn restrictions work but access restrictions don’t. I agree I think horn restrictions are definitely a useful tool but I think access restrictions are to. I feel your reading me wrong thinking I care wether you kill an animal from a truck or from foot, and trust me I do not. Access restrictions are used to limit the amount of hunters going into an area, especially a newly developed area or an area that is just to sensitive to the added pressure. Of course there not always going to work because if all 100 guys that are willing to drive in are still willing to walk then it’s accomplished zilch but we all know that’s not the case. By limiting the amount of hunters you are essentially managing the harvest rate in that area, no different then horn restrictions or Leh. Is that perfect **** no, Like I said I’d way rather fix the route of the problem. But there is no way we can continue to open up unlimited back country access, have liberal seasons, not control predators effectively and think we will have animals left. We as hunters are becoming pretty freekin effective with the new technology out there so like it or not it’s not just 4 legged predators crushing our animal numbers.

[SemperAurum]

We will have to disagree.

Vehicle access for hunting tends to upset the horsey and Backpack crowd. It really upsets them. I cant explain it. Kinda like same as when 10 guys in a bar wanting same girl. Dude in car drives up and gets her. They all upset.

[backcountry99]

We will have to disagree.

Vehicle access for hunting tends to upset the horsey and Backpack crowd. It really upsets them. I cant explain it. Kinda like same as when 10 guys in a bar wanting same girl. Dude in car drives up and gets her. They all upset.

It doesn’t matter who it upsets, that’s my whole point your basing what we should do on what you want! We need to base it on what’s best for the animals! And just like horn restrictions for some sensitive species such as sheep and elk there needs to be access restrictions for some sensitive areas!

Judging by your comments your ideas are way out of touch and based on personal grudges!

[Ron.C]

I hunt some VCA's. I started doing so as a means to get away from the crowds and actually having relatively easy access into some great country.

In the past I have backpacked into these areas to hunt goat, elk, and Griz. I liked the fact that I could use the existing road system to walk in and access drainages without constant buzzing of Atvs, trucks, trailers and big camps. And in all my time hunting them, I saw few horseback hunters. One of the areas makes it just tough enough to discourage most hunters from some pretty good country.

They offer a huge reduction in hunting pressure and a massive increase in satisfaction. They are open to everyone, all you need to do is put in a little effort.

In my experience, the hunting is usually better. Notice I didnt say game sightings. This is because driving around and glassing or looking in slashes or waiting for asomething to walk out as you go is a great way to see lots of game, and a good way to fill the freezer, but IMO a crappy way to
enjoy a hunt. Oh ya, did I say that I shot my WT buck this year when I saw him in a timber stand while driving back to camp. I am not above taking an easy one when the situation presents itself.

I could care less what the reason(s) were or are for the VCA be it habitat or game number concerns. There is tons of road access throughout this province, and it grows every year. Having some areas closed to recreational vehicle use not a bad thing.

[SemperAurum]

When you reach a certain stage of life you drive where you want, poop where you want, and pee where you want and you lose interest in hunting because you realize that there are so so so so many other actvities that you can spend your time on.

I still hunt but lately I question why.

Nonetheless, I will go to the nursing home ranting that motorized restriction for the purpose of hunting have done absolutely nothing to improve the ungulate population in BC. All it serves to do is control people.

kill the goddamn wolves and open up a grizzly season and it will be a game changer. If not, the game is over. and ffs, stop the destruction of our forests. It is the home of our animals. time for the world to switch away from using wood for construction.

[slowjo]

The "Rationale" makes "total sense.
Onw would have to be an idiot to not think it couldn't be of benefit.
HOWEVER, this rationale only works when "Proper MANAGEMNT" of so called areas and surrounding areas is implemented and maintained.

Basically, in the end, that was what was "not done".
I think many thought it these restricted areas would "manage themselves"....
NOPE!!

And like many have said, you can restrict hunters, but many user groups, both for pleasure and industry "were not restricted".
So, basically, they are utterly useless as a way to protect wildlife, if one does not use proper "management tools".

In the Motor Vehicle for Hunting Closed Areas that I frequent there has been no restrictions to logging or mining activities. Every year the roads get longer. There is has been no restrictions to recreational vehicles, quads, dirtbikes. There has been no restrictions to trail building for said recreational vehicles. No restrictions to mountain biking and mountain bike trail building. Sometimes the trails are 'built' right on game trails. Perfect trails that have been there for hundreds of years or more. How convenient!
There's no restrictions to firewood gathering, camping, cabin building.
There's no restrictions whatsoever except you can't hunt from a motor vehicle. Oh wait! Yes you can. If you have a disabled permit you can hunt in these areas with your truck, nothing like hiking 5km in the dark only to be overtaken at sunrise by some guy with a heart condition and his 1/2 ton truck. A million other roads to hunt and they go into the road closure.
The road closures need to be seriously analyzed and heavily restricted. Maybe then, and only then, will the animals start to return to these areas.

[SemperAurum]

Well you had me agreeing and feeling gleeful about everything you posted. You blew it by mentionng the guy in the pickup with a permit to hunt fom the truck. Absolutely blew it.

You just verfied what I have been saying for decades. Horsey and backpack people hate it that someone drives into an area that they are hunting in. The nerve of that legal hunter. How dare he. omg, If you cant enjoy your day out walking and hunting regardless of who or what drives past, then it is a truly , truly pathetic state of mind that you succumb to. Its the human condition. We all suffer from it. Some worse than others.

Motorized vehicle restrictions for the purpose of hunting have not done anything to increase ungulate populations in BC.

[slowjo]

Found this an interesting read this morning related to access and success and game populations. https://thehunterconservationist.com/hunt-fish/is-your-mode-of-locomotion-impacting-your-hunting-success/

thanks for the link, i agree

[backcountry99]

Well you had me agreeing and feeling gleeful about everything you posted. You blew it by mentionng the guy in the pickup with a permit to hunt fom the truck. Absolutely blew it.

You just verfied what I have been saying for decades. Horsey and backpack people hate it that someone drives into an area that they are hunting in. The nerve of that legal hunter. How dare he. omg, If you cant enjoy your day out walking and hunting regardless of who or what drives past, then it is a truly , truly pathetic state of mind that you succumb to. Its the human condition. We all suffer from it. Some worse than others.

Motorized vehicle restrictions for the purpose of hunting have not done anything to increase ungulate populations in BC.


You are no different then your so called horsey or backpack crowd you are the f150 or Yamaha grizzly crowd. Point fingers be bitter about what each other has or gets whine and cry all you want. At the end of the day we are all hunters, and nobody’s gonna change this shit other then hunters. So start looking at the big picture, stop careing about your pitaful battles amongst the so called hunting ranks and start focusing on the animals!

I think we all agree something or a lot of things need to change. And it needs to be results driven not socially driven!

[slowjo]

Well you had me agreeing and feeling gleeful about everything you posted. You blew it by mentionng the guy in the pickup with a permit to hunt fom the truck. Absolutely blew it.

You just verfied what I have been saying for decades. Horsey and backpack people hate it that someone drives into an area that they are hunting in. The nerve of that legal hunter. How dare he. omg, If you cant enjoy your day out walking and hunting regardless of who or what drives past, then it is a truly , truly pathetic state of mind that you succumb to. Its the human condition. We all suffer from it. Some worse than others.

Motorized vehicle restrictions for the purpose of hunting have not done anything to increase ungulate populations in BC.

LOL I knew I wasn't going to make friends with that comment. However, I am not against a hunter taking advantage of the rules set out by the government. In fact, I do my best to take advantage any rules that pertain to my own hunting.
I'm really just pointing out how the vehicle restrictions do absolutely nothing. There's so many other disturbances in the road closures, the vehicle restrictions for hunters only do very little for animal populations.
And yes, enjoying the outdoors regardless of the people passing you on the roads/trails is what it's all about. It is a constant practice in patience and acceptance. I like to roll with the punches. After I spit and swear about the perceived injustices brought upon me, I turn my face into the wind a go where it takes me.

[SemperAurum]

you should hear what i call people (in my head) when i meet them in MY spot while I am hunting. lol

we all suffer from it. every last one of us.

but we really need to kill the wolves. exterminate them Bring back grizzly hunting and stop destroying the forest

[REMINGTON JIM]

backcountry99 :I think we all agree something or a lot of things need to change. And it needs to be results driven not socially driven!

Maybe we JUST should SHUT down ALL Hunting for 5 years and see how NO KILLING of animals helps bring back some population?
What you Think or Say about that ? RJ

[backcountry99]

you should hear what i call people (in my head) when i meet them in MY spot while I am hunting. lol

we all suffer from it. every last one of us.

but we really need to kill the wolves. exterminate them Bring back grizzly hunting and stop destroying the forest


So let’s make it happen!

[backcountry99]

backcountry99 :I think we all agree something or a lot of things need to change. And it needs to be results driven not socially driven!

Maybe we JUST should SHUT down ALL Hunting for 5 years and see how NO KILLING of animals helps bring back some population?
What you Think or Say about that ? RJ


I personally feel we are not that far gone as of yet. My opinion would be controlled burns creating feed and habitat, predator culls, creating wilderness areas and Active Area/Species specific management.
The problem is making that happen is not easy.

[backcountry99]

backcountry99 :I think we all agree something or a lot of things need to change. And it needs to be results driven not socially driven!

Maybe we JUST should SHUT down ALL Hunting for 5 years and see how NO KILLING of animals helps bring back some population?
What you Think or Say about that ? RJ

Ill tell you though RJ an idea that might go over like a fart in church but could pay huge dividends would be shut down all ungulate hunting for 5 years. Yet up predator bag limits and seasons for the same time frame. If the shut down hunting approach is what your after.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Shut down the Ungulate hunting for 5 Years - and Kill as many Predators as Possible ! Black Bears & Wolves Especially ! Thin out the Cougars ! jmo RJ

[HarryToolips]

^^^^I don't think cutting out the primarily male harvest would do much....but I agree with the above posts about habitat enhancement, pred reduction, and one thing that I consider of utmost importance: stop all this bloody development that continues on winter range...we need funding from our tags to all go back into wildlife, and that starts with the BC Liberal party getting back in power, it's our best hope for this to happen..

[SemperAurum]

I would support human population control before I would ever support a 5 year ban on ungulate hunting. ( how it that for hard core radical?)

-reduce destruction of forests and winter range.

-aerial control and target poison control of wolves

-reinstatement of grizzly hunting.

-increased black bear hunting.

-habitat enhancement

-get the cattle off of crown land. all the fences criss crossing in the middle of nowhere is ridiculous.

-close down every guide outfitter business in bc They pay peanuts, are often foreign owned, and serve no truly useful viable economic function to the citizens or to wildlife.

-somehow get the indians on side to not slaughter family units of ungulates

[SemperAurum]

A ban on hunting would not accomplish a desired outcome.

A ban on motorized vehicle use for hunting will not accomlish a desired outcome.

This is primarly a predator problem.

[backcountry99]

A ban on hunting would not accomplish a desired outcome.

A ban on motorized vehicle use for hunting will not accomlish a desired outcome.

This is primarly a predator problem.

You have some good thoughts and some strange thoughts. You do realize that hunters are predators to right?

And in one hand you are wanting road access into new areas and on the other you are wanting to stop logging and mining exploration which creates these roads. And in the same phrase you want to kick out guide outfitters which without them we would have little to no access in the northern half of our province.

[LBM]

A ban on hunting would not accomplish a desired outcome.

A ban on motorized vehicle use for hunting will not accomlish a desired outcome.

This is primarly a predator problem.

As mentioned hunters/humans are predators as well and probable the worst they have wiped out or had a hand in causing the decline of many species.

[Sirloin]

A ban on hunting would not accomplish a desired outcome.

A ban on motorized vehicle use for hunting will not accomlish a desired outcome.

This is primarly a predator problem.

We sure do have a predator problem. BC is in a "PREDATOR PIT". Listen to Valerius Geist explain it in this podcast, very very good listen. He speaks directly about BC's historically and current conditions with predators.

We have a wolf population boom problem clearing out the adult breeding stocks of ungulates.

+ we have the bears clearing out the fawns and keeping the populations from rebounding = predator pit.

http://thehuntingcollective.libsyn.com/ep-79-predator-pits-riding-moose-and-fighting-for-the-north-american-model-with-dr-valerius-geist

"On this week’s show we’re joined by Dr. Valerius Geist, by many estimations the most important conservationist in the last 50 years. Dr. Geist is the original author of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and a lifelong devotee to studying wildlife. He is a specialist in zoology, biology, and has studied elk, moose, bighorn sheep, and other wild ungulates intensely over the years. We covered predator pits, riding moose into battle, why wolves don’t eat us, and his upbringing. Enjoy."

[Sirloin]

Shut down the Ungulate hunting for 5 Years - and Kill as many Predators as Possible ! Black Bears & Wolves Especially ! Thin out the Cougars ! jmo RJ

Regulated hunting has a very minimal impact on the overall populations... its inconsequential compared to habitat, winter conditions, and most of all predators.
Doe and cow tags are the only thing worth limiting.

Give up hunting totally for any reason, and it ain't coming back. Anything you give up now, AIN'T COMING BACK. Politics has changed, the country has changed. This isn't basic left vs right politics anymore. This is globalism vs nationalism, authoritarianism vs liberty. Did you notice how far Scheer and the conservatives pandered to the left this year? They are moving to the left to get the city goers and newcomers, and will continue to move this direction because with the gates open, the right is totally outnumbered. Trust me the plans the globalists and leftists have for us, do NOT include free unfettered access to land with public ownership of firearms. No more hunting for meat? no reason to allow general public to own a firearm, less reason to allow free access on crown land, the leftists would love this.

Predators are out there polishing off ungulate populations 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Ungulate populations are also suffering in the most remote areas were hunters aren't going.
As Valerius Geist says, wolves are polishing off adult breeding stocks and bears and devouring new fawns and keeping populations from rebounding, we are in a predator pit.

[SemperAurum]

You have some good thoughts and some strange thoughts. You do realize that hunters are predators to right?

And in one hand you are wanting road access into new areas and on the other you are wanting to stop logging and mining exploration which creates these roads. And in the same phrase you want to kick out guide outfitters which without them we would have little to no access in the northern half of our province.

You really should read and process written information a wee bit better. I have never said I want road access into new areas. But I sure as heck would like to not be banned from hunting with a motorized vehicle on any existing road, future road or current road closure. Read again. EXISTING ROAD, FUTURE ROAD OR CURRENT ROAD CLOSURE.

We have destroyed enough forest in this province for the time being. Have you ever flown over in an airplane and taken a good hard look?

And to be clear, I am not at all in favour of allowing access for motorized vehicle off of roads. No trail construction or trail cutting for motorized vehicle use.

Most guide outfitter businesses are now dilapidated, non-viable businesses, much like most of the cattle ranches that are allowed to set cattle free to eat on crown land.

[SemperAurum]

Thank you Sirloin

A voice of facts and reality.

[backcountry99]

You really should read and process written information a wee bit better. I have never said I want road access into new areas. But I sure as heck would like to not be banned from hunting with a motorized vehicle on any existing road, future road or current road closure. Read again. EXISTING ROAD, FUTURE ROAD OR CURRENT ROAD CLOSURE.

We have destroyed enough forest in this province for the time being. Have you ever flown over in an airplane and taken a good hard look?

And to be clear, I am not at all in favour of allowing access for motorized vehicle off of roads. No trail construction or trail cutting for motorized vehicle use.

Most guide outfitter businesses are now dilapidated, non-viable businesses, much like most of the cattle ranches that are allowed to set cattle free to eat on crown land.


Yup can read it loud and clear “Future Roads” you just emphasized it again!

Future roads and new roads are road access into new areas! The only one struggling to process this info is you! Hence why if we cannot stop the logging and mineral exploration and creation of new roads expanding our ease of backcountry access to all time highs. Vehicle access restrictions can be an effective means of limiting the human effect on sensitive areas!

i feel your like talking to a brick wall and just can’t get over your grudges! Not sure what your hate is for the guide outfitters group but you claim hunters have zero effect on ungulate populations and yet want guide outfitters pushed out? How much sense does that make if there not hurting numbers why do they need to leave? And if they are making money or not what do you care?
Clearly there is some real resentment for the horsey group, the backpacker group and outfitter group as you call them........well that outfitter group for many many years has been responsible for your ever so needed and wanted predator management! Much of the quality hunting that all of us have enjoyed has been because these outfitters have poisoned wolves, killed predators from planes on winter grounds, trapped predators and basically used the most effective means possible to control there numbers as to increase ungulate numbers in there areas. Now because of strict laws and recourse they can no longer risk loosing there territory’s over this so the predators are rampant!

Give up the grudge bud start killing predators, start trying to stop logging and mining exploration, start trying to promote habitat creation, start trying to promote wildlife management.

Your dreamed up conspiracy theories are out to lunch!!!!!

[GreyDog]

If hunting pressure has no effect on ungulate populations, our whitetail population is as high as ever inspite of the liberal doe season over the last few years. The apparent reduction in the elk herd, likewise. I've heard it's because of all the wolves but here's the thing; I walk around here every day all year around. I'll cover a five mile radius pretty thoroughly all the time. I don't see wolves. I don't see wolf tracks. I do see hordes of ATV's in the spring, summer and fall. I see herds of forty or fifty elk where I saw 300 twenty-five years ago. I walk five miles and see two or three whitetails where I would have seen 30. There have been a lot of changes in the last 25 years but the increase in human activity is, by far, the most noticeable. GD

[SemperAurum]

If new roads are made for the purpose of timber harvest or industrial activities hunters should be allowed to travel on the roads with motorized vehicles.

The guide/outfitter business is a sunset industry in BC. It is dying just like all the ungulates. I hear some are even using out of country employees and paying peanuts. Kinda like a Tim Hortons or an orchard.

[skibum]

Just enough trolling to keep things going - almost jumped on the we should just shut down the province's forestry industry... now its the guides....

[338win mag]

Regulated hunting has a very minimal impact on the overall populations... its inconsequential compared to habitat, winter conditions, and most of all predators.
Doe and cow tags are the only thing worth limiting.

Give up hunting totally for any reason, and it ain't coming back. Anything you give up now, AIN'T COMING BACK. Politics has changed, the country has changed. This isn't basic left vs right politics anymore. This is globalism vs nationalism, authoritarianism vs liberty. Did you notice how far Scheer and the conservatives pandered to the left this year? They are moving to the left to get the city goers and newcomers, and will continue to move this direction because with the gates open, the right is totally outnumbered. Trust me the plans the globalists and leftists have for us, do NOT include free unfettered access to land with public ownership of firearms. No more hunting for meat? no reason to allow general public to own a firearm, less reason to allow free access on crown land, the leftists would love this.

Predators are out there polishing off ungulate populations 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Ungulate populations are also suffering in the most remote areas were hunters aren't going.
As Valerius Geist says, wolves are polishing off adult breeding stocks and bears and devouring new fawns and keeping populations from rebounding, we are in a predator pit.
What globalists and others forget is..... God has already given me and you the nod to "kill and eat", no globalist, Indian Chief,
paid for politico will tell us otherwise. This is where the rubber meets the road, and in the USA they have established this in many of their states constitution, which means globalists, backdoor commie's, seed eater's and other assholes have no authority other the populace, namely the hunting/country born populace, or if your not country born then you can enjoy the hunting too. I just think those trying to disrupt my way of life need to phuck off, and Trudeau is the biggest asshole globalist I am aware of at this time.