First Lite vs Sitka vs Arcteryx

[Redthies]

I’m looking for a new Gore Tex jacket. Anyone have experience with the First Lite Vapor? I’m looking at the 3 brands above, but would consider others if they are truly waterproof and not crazy expensive. Cause you know, the three I’ve listed are cheap as chips... I’d consider used as well if someone here has gone a different route or has an extra? I’m 5’10” 185 so large in most brands.

[Aaron600]

I'd stick with Arcteryx, FirstLite or Kuiu. My Sitka leaked all over and some have said the same thing. My phone and wallet were drenched.

[Stranger In The Woods]

Have Sitka Storm Front, and Arcteryx Leaf 2
Sitka: Great in the rain so far, quiet,
Arcteryx Leaf Superior in quality and rain, but not as quiet

[Jimbob]

I have a FL vapor jacket and sitka dewpoint pants.

The vapor is a softer more supple fabric that wets out quick but also dries out quick, stays waterproof. The sitka is a little louder than the FL and beads up water longer and fabric has a bit of "crinkle" to it. Both work great and I am happy with them for lightweight backpacking shells.

If I were to get an all round shell (not just for backpacking) then I would go with arcteryx or westcomb (a Canadian company out of Vancouver).

[Redthies]

I get 50% off Pro deals at Arcteryx, but not on LEAF stuff. I’m considering one of their Zeta AR jackets in “Bushwack” green, which is a passable color for hunting. I want something I can use for waterfowl here on the coast too, so maybe the Zeta is a good choice as it’s more of a “real” Gore Tex? Bas3d on Jimbob saying the Vapor west out quick, that would suck on a day like Thursday of this week where it was seriously pissing down, but the ducks were also falling out of the sky...

[jac]

I bought OR jacket and pants (outdoor research) for sheep hunt. They worked very well will buy more of this brand in future. I bought the foray jacket and pant lots of vents full gore suit that is packable

[Redthies]

OR has been around for a long time. I’ve owned a few of their products over the years. Are they doing hunting specific stuff or did you just by green/brown stuff?

Just checked their ste. You got the Coyote color I assume? Looks good, but they show no stock for the Foray. The Gaurdian looks good too. Does your Foray have a hood? Do you recall cost? Source?

[jac]

I bought coyote pant and a green jacket. Oddly enough the best price I found online for the pants was a company in Spain with free international shipping. Yes it has a hood. Also won best ventilation award from gear lab product test. I would check moosejaw.com Or lasthunt.com or .ca can’t remember . I’ve been very happy with the stuff I think I bought the jacket for $150 and the pant for $125 can’t remember exactly

[Maestro]

Goretex is the past technology.
Hydro fleece is the better in all aspects.

[Redthies]

Goretex is the past technology.
Hydro fleece is the better in all aspects.

You going to sit out in a downpour for 3+ hours in hydrofleece? If so, I’ll check it out. Who makes affordable hydrofleece, and are there different names for it depending on manufacturer?

To be fair, I’M also past technology...

[Redthies]

I bought coyote pant and a green jacket. Oddly enough the best price I found online for the pants was a company in Spain with free international shipping. Yes it has a hood.

How big are you and what sizes did you order? I think I’m definitely a large jacket, but I’ve only found med/XL so far. I’ll keep looking...

[albravo2]

I have a fair amount of Arc'teryx stuff but my go-to rain jacket is the Kuiu Yukon. Quieter and way more comfortable than gore-tex. So comfortable I wear it as an outer layer on days where I'm not expecting rain.

[ryanb]

I can comment on this as I just went through this.

After 4 years my Kuiu Yukon jacket was falling apart. I hadn't noticed how bad it was getting until organizing my gear for a September stone sheep hunt. I emailed Kuiu and they agreed to replace it under warranty, but couldn't guarantee it would get there in time. I decided to buy a couple other jackets in case it didn't arrive on time. I bought a Sitka cloudburst and when it came I was very disappointed in the fit. It had what I would call the opposite of an athletic fit... whatever that is. Loose through the torso but oddly really tight around the waist. The quality was decent enough, but the fit is just weird. I tried a sotrmfront on and found the same issue.

Decided to go buy a new Arcteryx zeta AR. I was really impressed by this jacket, much softer and quiter than Goretex proshell of old.

As it turns out the Kuiu waranteed jacket arrived the day before I left so I ended up returning the Sitka and Arcteryx, but I really wanted to keep that Arcteryx!

On a positive note for Kuiu, they did replace my Yukon and I can report they have definitely addressed all of the weak points on the original Yukon design that caused it to fail after only 4 years of occasional use.

[Redthies]

Thanks for the info Ryan. The Zeta AR is what I had decided on from Arcteryx. It looks like the Zeta fits very long, which isn’t a bad thing. What size Zetadid you buy Ryan, and how tall/heavy are you?

I grabbed a Cabelas rain jacket on sale today just until I figure out what I for sure want, and I need to put aside some cash for my wife’s trip to Hawaii during the whitetail rut, so I have a stop-gap until I get something.

[twoSevenO]

Arcteryx will be built better than all of those and likely last longest. Not the best for hunting if you need to stay quiet.

The Arcteryx Zeta is a bit quieter because it uses a different material, a c-knit backer which really is a bit quieter than regular arcteryx goretex

[twoSevenO]

I can comment on this as I just went through this.

After 4 years my Kuiu Yukon jacket was falling apart. I hadn't noticed how bad it was getting until organizing my gear for a September stone sheep hunt. I emailed Kuiu and they agreed to replace it under warranty, but couldn't guarantee it would get there in time. I decided to buy a couple other jackets in case it didn't arrive on time. I bought a Sitka cloudburst and when it came I was very disappointed in the fit. It had what I would call the opposite of an athletic fit... whatever that is. Loose through the torso but oddly really tight around the waist. The quality was decent enough, but the fit is just weird. I tried a sotrmfront on and found the same issue.

Decided to go buy a new Arcteryx zeta AR. I was really impressed by this jacket, much softer and quiter than Goretex proshell of old.

As it turns out the Kuiu waranteed jacket arrived the day before I left so I ended up returning the Sitka and Arcteryx, but I really wanted to keep that Arcteryx!

On a positive note for Kuiu, they did replace my Yukon and I can report they have definitely addressed all of the weak points on the original Yukon design that caused it to fail after only 4 years of occasional use.

They replaced a jacket that was falling apart from what sounds like wear and tear?????

Or was it actually defective? If so, what broke on it?

[Redthies]

Arcteryx will be built better than all of those and likely last longest. Not the best for hunting if you need to stay quiet.

The Arcteryx Zeta is a bit quieter because it uses a different material, a c-knit backer which really is a bit quieter than regular arcteryx goretex

Good to know, that is the only one I was interested in from Arcteryx.

[KBC]

I haven'y tried any others but I have the FL SEAK jacket and it is great. Easily the most breathable rain jacket I've ever worn.

[Aaron600]

The Kuiu Yukon is a solid Jacket!!!

[Maestro]

You going to sit out in a downpour for 3+ hours in hydrofleece? If so, I’ll check it out. Who makes affordable hydrofleece, and are there different names for it depending on manufacturer?

To be fair, I’M also past technology...

Nothing will survive in downpour for 3+ hours including Goretex. I switched from Goretex to Hydrofleeece and found it to be more quiet, more warm and breathable with the same water resistance as Goretex.
Original hydrofleece made by Browning. There are several other brands with different quality and price.

[Redthies]

Nothing will survive in downpour for 3+ hours including Goretex.

Well, my Helly Hanson work gear goes all day and then some, but it sure isn’t quiet or comfortable!

Thats is why I grabbed the $90 Cabela’s jacket. Gives me time to get the right thing for the long haul.

[Huntingtyler123]

I have the firstlite seak rain jacket and have used it in pouring rain paired with my kuiu rain pants And have been kept dry, very impressed.

[ryanb]

They replaced a jacket that was falling apart from what sounds like wear and tear?????

Or was it actually defective? If so, what broke on it?

Yes it was defective. The laminate was delaminating on the inside where they didn't tape edges of laminated pieces (they only taped sewn seams), the elbow pads that are glued on were also coming off. On the new version the laminated edges are taped for durability and the elbow pads are sewn on, so obviously these had become known weak points.

[ryanb]

Thanks for the info Ryan. The Zeta AR is what I had decided on from Arcteryx. It looks like the Zeta fits very long, which isn’t a bad thing. What size Zetadid you buy Ryan, and how tall/heavy are you?

I grabbed a Cabelas rain jacket on sale today just until I figure out what I for sure want, and I need to put aside some cash for my wife’s trip to Hawaii during the whitetail rut, so I have a stop-gap until I get something.

I'm 6'1" and 185lbs. I ended up with a large, but the medium also fit, but didn't allow the flexibility of layering into late fall hunts.

[twoSevenO]

Yes it was defective. The laminate was delaminating on the inside where they didn't tape edges of laminated pieces (they only taped sewn seams), the elbow pads that are glued on were also coming off. On the new version the laminated edges are taped for durability and the elbow pads are sewn on, so obviously these had become known weak points.

I had the same problem with Arcteryx. Some delamination of the inside hem, the hood "brim" etc. They repaired under warranty back in 2015, i think.
Fast forward to 2019, the jacket's pit zipper completely delaminated. So with the zipper fully zipped up, it looked as if it was fully unzipped.
Shipped the jacket back and they simply declined.

They said the jacket is past its "useful life". Then they went on to say how this is normal after about 12 years of age, and how they won't repair it because they can't guarantee that something else won't fail right after.
So i replied back asking why they call it a lifetime warranty and not a 10 year warranty, if that's the case .... never got a straight answer other than "we'll give you 50% off a new one, but we keep this one"

FU, i'm not giving you MORE money now. Ridiculous.

I ended up sending my jacket to a place in Calgary, called "Gear Restore". They fixed it up for $75 including return shiping, and the repair looks pretty good so far.

Their warranty is garbage compared to other companies. I had Simms replace a guide fishing jacket after like 9 years, no questions asked, and a pair of waders repaired for free after like 10.
From what i hear, the hunting-specific gear from Kuiu and Sitka is definitely ahead of the game for warranty repair. I know guys that had SItka warrantied and didn't even had to send the "broken" pieces back ..... which is awesome to have a back up piece of gear.

[mastercaller]

as much as I am boycotting Patagonia due to their stance on the oil and gas industry, the torrentshell was awesome. We were fishing on Haida this year, I was soaked using the lodge gear, the guide was soaked using his Simms, my bud wore a 10yr old torrentshell and was dry. It absolutely poured on us all day, wind was howling too

I bought a used Kuiu chugach this yr. Its 3 yrs old and performed well in a wet snow day and a slight drizzle/wet snow day this fall. My bud owns the same jacket and last yr he was bone dry in a heavy wet snow/rain day.

My question to you is evaluate how you hunt and what your expectation is. Are you the hunter that's spends the day in the rain or is it for "emergency"/little showers that happen

Good luck!!

[Livewire322]

To the OP:

I have a BetaAr jacket from arkteryx; it’s a fantastic jacket. I use it for waterfowl hunting the really rainy days in Ladner and always come home dry.
The key is treating your jacket with DWR monthly; if you are using it every day, hard. It will increase the lifespan of your jacket.

Also, their warranty is bomb proof. I had a delamination issue after three years of hard use and minimal care. They gave me a new jacket free of charge!

I can’t speak to the other brands you listed but arkteryx blindly gets my vote.


Nothing will survive in downpour for 3+ hours including Goretex. I switched from Goretex to Hydrofleeece and found it to be more quiet, more warm and breathable with the same water resistance as Goretex.
Original hydrofleece made by Browning. There are several other brands with different quality and price.

I’ll stand with you in the downpour wearing my BetaAR and see who gets soaked through first. I’ve been out on Boundary Bay for 8+ hours in constant driving rain and not gotten wet beneath my jacket.


I had the same problem with Arcteryx. Some delamination of the inside hem, the hood "brim" etc. They repaired under warranty back in 2015, i think.
Fast forward to 2019, the jacket's pit zipper completely delaminated. So with the zipper fully zipped up, it looked as if it was fully unzipped.
Shipped the jacket back and they simply declined.

They said the jacket is past its "useful life". Then they went on to say how this is normal after about 12 years of age, and how they won't repair it because they can't guarantee that something else won't fail right after.
So i replied back asking why they call it a lifetime warranty and not a 10 year warranty, if that's the case .... never got a straight answer other than "we'll give you 50% off a new one, but we keep this one"

FU, i'm not giving you MORE money now. Ridiculous.

I ended up sending my jacket to a place in Calgary, called "Gear Restore". They fixed it up for $75 including return shiping, and the repair looks pretty good so far.

Their warranty is garbage compared to other companies. I had Simms replace a guide fishing jacket after like 9 years, no questions asked, and a pair of waders repaired for free after like 10.
From what i hear, the hunting-specific gear from Kuiu and Sitka is definitely ahead of the game for warranty repair. I know guys that had SItka warrantied and didn't even had to send the "broken" pieces back ..... which is awesome to have a back up piece of gear.

I’ve had completely the opposite experience, as has my fiancé. Both of us have sent a jacket back to them and they have replaced the jacket no questions asked. Further, they offered for us to upgrade to a different jacket and pay the difference (between our jackets purchase price and the new items price).

Both of is had similar delamination issues after three years of hard use.

[DanD]

FWIW, 'lifetime warranty' refers to lifetime of the product, not the buyer.

I believe Arc'teryx operates on around 10-year lifespan for their hardshells, though they are pretty flexible if it looks like you tried to take care of it. I've sent back a 15yr old jacket for patching and they offered to send a new one out instead. If you trash your kit, they'll be less likely to do that for you though.

I've never found a line of waterproof gear that equals the quality of Arc'teryx, but I think Kuiu, FL and Sitka are getting closer all the time. The biggest factors the separate the hunting companies from Arc'teryx is their focus on quiet and stretchy fabrics. I know Arc'teryx doesn't like stretch in their waterproofs because it's hard on the laminated layers/glue and is inherently less durable and waterproof. The soft/quiet outer fabrics are also a lot less durable than the crinkly Arc'teryx stuff, but silence isn't an important design element for skiing or mountaineering gear.

In the PNW, when it's coming down so hard I'm in my shells, i'm not usually very concerned with noise - Arc'teryx all the way.

[twoSevenO]

FWIW, 'lifetime warranty' refers to lifetime of the product, not the buyer.

I believe Arc'teryx operates on around 10-year lifespan for their hardshells, though they are pretty flexible if it looks like you tried to take care of it. I've sent back a 15yr old jacket for patching and they offered to send a new one out instead. If you trash your kit, they'll be less likely to do that for you though.

And they decide what the "lifetime" is. Lifetime warranty, that is for the life of hte product, is the biggest retail scam of the 21st century. They decide what the lifetime is, so it could be anything.

My jacket was bought in 2005, but is in otherwise pristine condition. Not a single stain or rip on it, yet they consider that "past its lifetime". Their worksmanship on it failed. And they simply said it's lifetime is up.

F*** Y*** and your warranty. They are certainly NEVER earning my business again. Ever.

Here is their lame response where they admit the jacket is in good condition, but won't touch it simply because it is old .... Not to mention he goes on to talk how the gore-tex delaminated. The gore-tex did not delaminate. The seam tape they applied ON TOP of the gore-tex delaminated from the gore-tex.

The 3rd party that fixed the jacket, had no problem getting things to laminate properly.


Thank you for your confirmation.

I understand your frustration with the situation. If the lamination issue had occurred on a newer jacket we would have repair options. In all cases, it is unfortunate, but we would not proceed with a repair unless we are 100% confident that it will be a long-lasting solution instead of a temporary fix. Gore-tex fabric is created by bonding 3 layers of fabric together (the face fabric, the Gore-tex membrane that keep water out but allows vapor to escape and the protective backer). As you said your jacket was in no way abused, but in most cases time and humidity are the main factor when it comes to preserving the integrity of Gore-tex fabric. Once jackets start to reach the 15+ year mark it is simply general use over a long period of time that has caused the natural degradation of the fabric and the layers of fabric to separate. Once this has occurred we are unable to repair the jacket at all. While stitching could save some areas of the jacket anything that would need to be relaminated, such as the seam tape that makes the jacket waterproof, wouldn’t rebond with Gore-tex once it has begun delaminating. Due to the age of the product being past its practical lifespan and no longer within coverage of our Limited Warranty, we cannot offer a repair for this product that will meet our standards of quality.

If you want to pursue a third party repair, we will be happy to send your jacket back as is. We will simply need a confirmation of your shipping address.

Let me know if you have any questions!

Best regards,



Arc'teryx Service Team - Alex
ARC'TERYX Equipment
A Division of Amer Sports Canada Inc.
www.arcteryx.com (http://www.arcteryx.com/)

[Redthies]

as much as I am boycotting Patagonia due to their stance on the oil and gas industry, the torrentshell was awesome. We were fishing on Haida this year, I was soaked using the lodge gear, the guide was soaked using his Simms, my bud wore a 10yr old torrentshell and was dry. It absolutely poured on us all day, wind was howling too

I have a Torrent Shell, and a lot of other Patagonia gear. I’ve spent a lot of time in their gear for over 30 years. It is ALL top notch stuff. I agree that some of their politics go past what I like, but I find that we as hunters, actually have more in common with environmental groups than either side would care to admit. We both want good habitat, healthy forests, healthy lakes and rivers etc etc. The big difference is, we don’t live vegetarian lifestyles. We are meat eaters. So are a lot of Patagoniacs, but they prefer to hunt in aisle 7 of Wholefoods.

[Treed]

I just went through the whole rigamarole with Arc’teryx. Five year old jacket that was well cared for. It delaminated around the neck and seam on the hem and cuffs fell apart. They said their ‘lifetime’ expectancy on a $700 jacket was 5-6 years!!! They offered me a 50% discount on a new Jacket. I wouldn’t recommend them based on their false warrantee advertising. I guy I know who was a senior designer for them said they are flooded with warrantee issues and are taking a hard line to avoid the costs.

[Looking_4_Jerky]

Acknowledging that not every application needs to consider sound, but why would I spend that kind of money on the Arcteryx and be limited to only applications where sound isn't a factor? If you're going to drop some cake on gear, I'd be going for the extra versatility offered by the hunting brands' lineup of quieter gear...

[twoSevenO]

I just went through the whole rigamarole with Arc’teryx. Five year old jacket that was well cared for. It delaminated around the neck and seam on the hem and cuffs fell apart. They said their ‘lifetime’ expectancy on a $700 jacket was 5-6 years!!! They offered me a 50% discount on a new Jacket. I wouldn’t recommend them based on their false warrantee advertising. I guy I know who was a senior designer for them said they are flooded with warrantee issues and are taking a hard line to avoid the costs.

The sad truth is that arcteryx has become more of a fashion statement amongst rich Asian kids nowdays than a brand for the hardcore outdoorsman.

It doesnt surprise me that they had issues having moved production to china .... and having changed their approach.

Explains why some had great service and why some got shafted by their warranty department.

[twoSevenO]

Acknowledging that not every application needs to consider sound, but why would I spend that kind of money on the Arcteryx and be limited to only applications where sound isn't a factor? If you're going to drop some cake on gear, I'd be going for the extra versatility offered by the hunting brands' lineup of quieter gear...

Yes, but you have to remember some of us bought arcteryx jackets before sitka, kuiu and first lite even existed!

There really were no good options for a high end, waterproof hunting jacket 10+ years ago.

[Woodland13]

So I had a totally different experience with them but also had an insider tip before I bought my first jacket. I sold Arc Teryx some equipment years ago and the head of R&D team told me to get the Cansdian made stuff because there really wouldn't be any questions asked regarding the warranty. I bought an Alpha SV (their highest end jacket at the time). Fast forward about 8 years and the goretex above the neck label/coat hook hanger thing is delaminating in about a 1"x3" area. Wait two weeks and get an email saying to pick out a brand new jacket.
I think part of the deal is the workmanship on the Canadian made stuff is less likely to fail and if it looks like it's Gore's problem they just replace rather than repair. Sorry to hear your experience sucked, I've had the opposite experience.

Also at the outlet right now they have about 10 pairs of the LEAF alpha bib in multicam for $400 ( I think normally $750). Canadian made and it's a quite softer goretex without the heavy felted backer on the Zeta line.

[2tins]

You can't really even compare the quality of Arcteryx to the other guys. I use Sitka rain gear for hunting and it's been good for the last few years. That being said I've never actually had the Arcteryx Leaf in my hands but their ski gear is as good as it gets. Pricey but top shelf. Good luck.

[twoSevenO]

My jacket is made in canada, as all arcteryx jackets were in 2005 ..... didnt matter. Still refused to replace/fix despite acknowledgment that the jacket was not abused or worn out.

[Redthies]

I solved my dilemma. It turns out the founder of First Lite is one of my room mates from the last time I lived in Rossland. I hadn’t talked to him in more than 10 years, but often wondered what he was up to. Now I know. Pro pricing on FL, and supporting an old friends business is a win win!

[albravo2]

Cripes, that is a win. Good for you!

[KBC]

Nice...can you order me some stuff hahaha ;)

[twoSevenO]

Nice. I have no brand loyalties, really. If I got that kind of deal all my stuff would be FL, too!