Shooter or not?

[finngun]

I was lucky enough to get doe draw,,but if I see mama deer with bambi,, of course I won't shoot mama..question is Is it legally ok to shoot young one instead ? Even I dont know sex of it..I value quality of meat instead of quantity..thx f..gun:?:

[Ohwildwon]

Bambi should be self sufficient, fill your Doe draw...

[tuner]

I think it’s recommended that you take the younger one, as the doe will go into esterus while the youngin will be
susceptible to predation on their own, and will not reach breeding age till the following year.(dependent on age of the offspring of course)

[warnniklz]

I think biologist have shown that even a "dry doe" can be "dry" a couple of years and then start breeding again. By the fall the fawns are weend... take what you desire. There's no "trophy" doe in the traditional sense.

[Darksith]

the tag is antlerless, so if it doesn't have antlers its legal. I know lots of guys that shoot a big fawn rather than the breeding doe, to each their own, you decide as its all ethical. One just has more meat than the other, and one will almost surely be a bit more tender than the other at the very least

[Darksith]

I think biologist have shown that even a "dry doe" can be "dry" a couple of years and then start breeding again. By the fall the fawns are weend... take what you desire. There's no "trophy" doe in the traditional sense.

I get a kick out of people using the term "dry" whether its for moose or deer or elk. All it means is that the fawn/calf didn't make it, hard to say whether that animal is capable of breeding still. Its a silly term. Number of reasons for the animal not having a young on its side...predators, vehicle strike, tough winter, disease...

[twoSevenO]

Should be able to shoot a buck too, if he didt manage to grow antlers over 2.5cm by then as well.

In fact I know people have done that thinking they were shooting at a doe because the small nubs were impossible to see. Legal.

Rare, though.

[canucks6]

Why not find a doe without a fawn. Wait a couple more minutes and shoot the buck that is following her.

[835]

Could argue this one all day if you like..... but it would still be what one person feels about it..

Bottom line is the tag is for Antlerless... what ever you want to do is ok and legal.

That said I would shoot a big doe, only because I want more meat.

[DeepJeep]

I was lucky enough to get doe draw,,but if I see mama deer with bambi,, of course I won't shoot mama..question is Is it legally ok to shoot young one instead ? Even I dont know sex of it..I value quality of meat instead of quantity..thx f..gun:?:

It's 2019, we can't dictate what gender they want to be so I m shooting the first deer I see.

[finngun]

Should be able to shoot a buck too, if he didt manage to grow antlers over 2.5cm by then as well.

In fact I know people have done that thinking they were shooting at a doe because the small nubs were impossible to see. Legal.

Rare, though.
Thank you that was the anwer i was looking for..f..gun

[j270wsm]

Should be able to shoot a buck too, if he didt manage to grow antlers over 2.5cm by then as well.

In fact I know people have done that thinking they were shooting at a doe because the small nubs were impossible to see. Legal.

Rare, though.

Regs only stipulate length when referring to tines.....not antlers. The regs classify antler as a bony protrusion....if the deer has visible bone then it’s a buck and can’t be taken on an anterless tag. If the deer has started growing antlers and they don’t break the hide then it can be classified as antlerless.

[Ltbullken]

I'd follow Valerius Geist's recommendation and take the young one. The older animal survives for a reason. Let it keep living and reproducing. Now, see a lone doe... I'd shoot that!

[wideopenthrottle]

Antlered Animal
- means a member of the
deer family over one year of age bearing visible
bony antlers.
Antlerless Animal
- means a member of
the deer family bearing no visible antlers. The
small skin or hair covered protuberances of
male fawns and calves do not constitute antlers.

[Darksith]

Regs only stipulate length when referring to tines.....not antlers. The regs classify antler as a bony protrusion....if the deer has visible bone then it’s a buck and can’t be taken on an anterless tag. If the deer has started growing antlers and they don’t break the hide then it can be classified as antlerless.
yup and...

Antlered Animal
- means a member of the
deer family over one year of age bearing visible
bony antlers.
Antlerless Animal
- means a member of
the deer family bearing no visible antlers. The
small skin or hair covered protuberances of
male fawns and calves do not constitute antlers.

confirmed

[Rieber]

Shoot the one that you can drive to. Easy-on-the-back venison is my favorite type of venison.

Just make sure you have the correct variety of antlerless deer before squeezing off the shot.

[ACB]

I came across this problem twice last season, twice I saw does with twin fawns in my LEH region. The fawns were too small, and if I shot the doe, I think I would have been killing 3 deer, there's a reason that the fawns stay with their mother until she kicks them out at about ( 1 1/2 years) just before she gives birth to new fawns, theres lots that she had to teach them.

[RackStar]

I couldn’t shoot a fawn, also couldn’t shoot moms

Big dry doe

[barongan]

I vote Nohttp://juragan.club/assets/13/o.png

[notyalc]

I would personally only shoot a doe that had no fawns around. I’m not desperate enough to shoot a fawn or a doe with fawns around.

[Steeleco]

I would personally only shoot a doe that had no fawns around. I’m not desperate enough to shoot a fawn or a doe with fawns around.

Has little if anything to do with desperation, its all about legal and ethical IMHO. If a guys desperate they likely wont have tags or be on the net seeking advice!!

[finngun]

Has little if anything to do with desperation, its all about legal and ethical IMHO. If a guys desperate they likely wont have tags or be on the net seeking advice!!

Steelco is right...at least in my case..desperation has nothing to do with my hunting..i ,ll be very happy about 30lb excellent bamby meat..we don't eat that much of venison....my wiffey hardly any..my motto is..quality..not quantity..some hunters has big families ..so need is big too.i understand that...not mine....sometimes if I shoot bigger deer .. ended up giving away most of it..and paying that around $dollar /per lb for butcher.. ...small deer I butcher my self..
...ethically shooting a bamby is fine with me,,,,especially if mama deer has 2 bambies,,usually another one is not making through the winter...each of us has his own way of hunting...:idea:

[two-feet]

Antler less seasons are put in place to reduce the herd size so the carrying capacity of the wintering grounds is not exceeded. From a management point of view, just shoot an antlerless dear (any) and be happy.

[Redthies]

It’s a very personal thing. If it’s legal, then the morals/ethics are up to the individual. I probably wouldn’t shoot a doe in the company of smaller fawns, but if there are 3 more or less full size does together, I wouldn’t have an issue with it. I hunt to feed my family, but quality is of a prime concern too. A young doe is going to be much nicer eating than a big buck!

[Wild one]

Personal choice for me is to only shoot lone does if I take an antlerless. Milky does is more to clean up to prevent spoilage and I personally would rather leave does to teach fawns as long as possible. A fawn maybe be able to survive but they are sure dumb if solo young

Like I said it’s a personal choice you make your own call what is right by your own standards

[ramcam]

I wouldnt shoot any antlerless deer but that being said a lone doe would be the way to go if you are going to
shoot antlerless deer.

[ACB]

Myself I don't have moral problem with shooting does, because I understand why the Fish and Wildlife alot a certain number of LEH's for does in specific areas, it's to maintain buck to doe ratio's in that specific area, you don't want too many does for X amount of bucks. That said, I have shot lone does on LEH permits but I won't shoot a doe with one or more fawns. Because then you're killing more than one deer very unlikely those fawns would survive, and those fawns could be buck fawns. I don't need the meat that bad.

[Redthies]

Myself I don't have moral problem with shooting does, because I understand why the Fish and Wildlife alot a certain number of LEH's for does in specific areas, it's to maintain buck to doe ratio's in that specific area, you don't want too many does for X amount of bucks.

This follows my line of thinking too. I have little faith on 99% of Govt policy, but if the animals are in any sort of crisis, there won’t be a GOS or LEH for them.

[Wild one]

Myself I don't have moral problem with shooting does, because I understand why the Fish and Wildlife alot a certain number of LEH's for does in specific areas, it's to maintain buck to doe ratio's in that specific area, you don't want too many does for X amount of bucks. That said, I have shot lone does on LEH permits but I won't shoot a doe with one or more fawns. Because then you're killing more than one deer very unlikely those fawns would survive, and those fawns could be buck fawns. I don't need the meat that bad.

Might not want to put too much faith in BC’s management keeping track of buck vs doe ratio’s. Many MU’s can go a long time without a proper count. The recent reduction in annual mule deer limit was do to many MU’s falling short on bucks resulting in poor ratios.

Unfortanatly BC does not have proper funding to collect solid data on its game populations often resulting in poor management. This is part of the reason many BC game populations are on the decline

A lot of BC’s management is political/social with a little science thrown in

[walks with deer]

When i had doe tags or my wife did i was lucky enough to shoot does out of a feild that had not had babys for years

[Bubbacanuck]

Find another hunter with an anterless tag and shoot both the doe & fawn

[wideopenthrottle]

Might not want to put too much faith in BC’s management keeping track of buck vs doe ratio’s. Many MU’s can go a long time without a proper count. The recent reduction in annual mule deer limit was do to many MU’s falling short on bucks resulting in poor ratios.

Unfortanatly BC does not have proper funding to collect solid data on its game populations often resulting in poor management. This is part of the reason many BC game populations are on the decline

A lot of BC’s management is political/social with a little science thrown in

buck to doe ratios are considered on the basis of total numbers (carrying capacity) so if the area can carry 1000 deer through the winter and you want a buck to doe ratio of 1:9 that would mean you want 900 does and 100 bucks.....if there were way more than 900 does many LEH tags would be issued....if there were less than 900 does, but more than 100 bucks, the GOS on bucks or 2 pointers might be extended to get the ratio down but it is less important than ensuring you do not exceed carrying capacity on a bad winter...if there is not enough food for the deer, they all eat until the food is mostly gone and then there is mass die off, poor fawn recruitment and easier pickings for preds….

[Wild one]

buck to doe ratios are considered on the basis of total numbers (carrying capacity) so if the area can carry 1000 deer through the winter and you want a buck to doe ratio of 1:9 that would mean you want 900 does and 100 bucks.....if there were way more than 900 does many LEH tags would be issued....if there were less than 900 does, but more than 100 bucks, the GOS on bucks or 2 pointers might be extended to get the ratio down but it is less important than ensuring you do not exceed carrying capacity on a bad winter...if there is not enough food for the deer, they all eat until the food is mostly gone and then there is mass die off, poor fawn recruitment and easier pickings for preds….

The main point of my post you quoted was that BC lacks solid data on its populations because of lack of funding and long periods between counts in many MUs.

Well aware of how buck vs doe ratios work and carrying capacity. BC actually has a target goal of 20%( memory might be off could be 25% max) which is actually low compared to most states and provinces. Many places are running target goals ranging from 30% to over 65%. 1:9 would be a horrible ratio this can result in population decline example Colorado. Another issue acknowledged in states/provinces out side of BC is the negative impact low buck ratio has on the timing of a fawns birth shortening its growing season before going into winter lower fawn survival rates.

BC is not a risk of reaching carrying capacity in majority of the province and basically a mute point here. Some like to flogg the theory of keeping low numbers will prevent winter kill on bad winters. If you research winter kill there is no way to prevent winter kill. You can manage higher game numbers and have a boom bust cycle according to winters or you can keep steady low numbers and limited loss on poor winters. Either way you will experience fluctuations.

I have beaten both these issues to death in the past with examples from other provinces/states and the different theories/management plans used regarding them. Too much typing to repeat so not going to bother and frankly not my problem anymore

I have said it before hunters need to expand their research beyond what gets handed to them and look beyond BCs borders because many states/provinces invest a lot more time/money than BC every has

[wideopenthrottle]

sure...not implying i know more than you, just stating what i do know about the theory of managing game. Again, you would know a lot more about the specifics of what is actually done here and it is important to discuss it for the benefit of others that may not have even gotten past the idea of stockpiling deer...as i have been a student of the outdoors my whole life, i know Canadian winters are a great limiter of survival for many reasons...direct and indirect

[Wild one]

sure...not implying i know more than you, just stating what i do know about the theory of managing game. Again, you would know a lot more about the specifics of what is actually done here and it is important to discuss it for the benefit of others that may not have even gotten past the idea of stockpiling deer...as i have been a student of the outdoors my whole life, i know Canadian winters are a great limiter of survival for many reasons...direct and indirect

I am not an expert by any means I have just had the chance to discuss things with knowledgeable people and researched the subjects out of personal interest. Unfortunately it only lead my to go WTF with many of BC deer issues. Even more so when people have hen pick facts on these subjects to push their opinion/agenda

Not trying to pick at you others have just annoyed me on these subjects

[wideopenthrottle]

I am not an expert by any means I have just had the chance to discuss things with knowledgeable people and researched the subjects out of personal interest. Unfortunately it only lead my to go WTF with many of BC deer issues. Even more so when people have hen pick facts on these subjects to push their opinion/agenda

Not trying to pick at you others have just annoyed me on these subjects

no worries...and my 9:1 ratio was just for making the math simple heheheh

[Rieber]

Shoot 'er Jacob

[TyTy]

I put in and drew a region 3 doe tag this year (first doe tag) and will be taking the family out for this hunt. This one will be all about the freezer for us.

[russm86]

Think of it this way, IF biologists knew that this years fawns were still completely dependant on the doe and were worried about them surviving then they would have the wording in the regs like bears, making it illegal to take a doe with a fawn... Due to the fact that there is no such reg then I'd say it really isn't an issue and doesn't matter so is entirely up to you. Any does I've seen/shot come November had already stopped producing milk and weened the fawns. The fawns will just group up with other deer anyways. Come to think of it, with all my time in the bush and all the trail cam footage I don't think I've ever seen a doe letting a fawn suckle in the fall, August at the latest maybe. Anyone else seen fawns suckling into hunting season, especially late season when most of the doe draws/opening are?

[Bubbacanuck]

Think of it this way, IF biologists knew that this years fawns were still completely dependant on the doe and were worried about them surviving then they would have the wording in the regs like bears, making it illegal to take a doe with a fawn... Due to the fact that there is no such reg then I'd say it really isn't an issue and doesn't matter so is entirely up to you. Any does I've seen/shot come November had already stopped producing milk and weened the fawns. The fawns will just group up with other deer anyways. Come to think of it, with all my time in the bush and all the trail cam footage I don't think I've ever seen a doe letting a fawn suckle in the fall, August at the latest maybe. Anyone else seen fawns suckling into hunting season, especially late season when most of the doe draws/opening are?

Last year in a zone with an anterless season, I took a doe not realizing a fawn was bedded down. My buddy took the fawn. When I was field dressing the doe she was still producing milk...so I assume it was still possibly suckling?

[wideopenthrottle]

whoops not this one

[wideopenthrottle]

Think of it this way, IF biologists knew that this years fawns were still completely dependant on the doe and were worried about them surviving then they would have the wording in the regs like bears, making it illegal to take a doe with a fawn... Due to the fact that there is no such reg then I'd say it really isn't an issue and doesn't matter so is entirely up to you. Any does I've seen/shot come November had already stopped producing milk and weened the fawns. The fawns will just group up with other deer anyways. Come to think of it, with all my time in the bush and all the trail cam footage I don't think I've ever seen a doe letting a fawn suckle in the fall, August at the latest maybe. Anyone else seen fawns suckling into hunting season, especially late season when most of the doe draws/opening are?

I have squirted my hunting partner while skinning in late October...I posted a story about my first and only elk that relates to it and I also mentioned it in the hunting pranks thread....
post #4 in this thread
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?126819-Pranks-at-hunting-camp&highlight=squirted


here is the rest of the story I posted previously

I will appogise in advance as I am a terrible story teller and not much better at writing them

In 2012, I eagerly contacted my hunting partner to let him know the leh draw results were out...he told me he doesn't like to check on line...bad luck he says and we chuckle...
a week later or so when the mail arrives he phones me to say neither him or his dad (my other hunting partner) got the moose draw (we had applied individually).

He seemed upbeat considering the bad news. AHHHH I said, "now what are we gonna do?"....not to worry, he says, one of his dad's friends says he knows a spot where he had a goat draw ...he said that it is also good for elk and is overrun with whitetails....with renewed excitement at the prospect of learning a new area especially if it is loaded with huntable game we made our plans to go to an area in region 4. On the first day there, before doe season opened, we decided to go do some scouting I walked from camp (as I usually do) and he took the quad a few miles away and walked some roads...

After mid day my stomach got the better of me so I figured it was time to head back to camp...I pulled out my radio and tried to call my partners...buddy's dad was in range and back at camp...he told me he had made a nice lunch so I should hurry back...after about 5 hours of super stealthy tip toeing I was ready for a break. I turned and started to head back at a rather quick pace, rifle slung over the shoulder thinking about the nice hot meal back in camp....of course as soon as I let my guard down I scare up a big doe who runs off without a look back...awe crap, I think...I know better than to let my guard down like that so I resume walking at a stealthier pace....

sure enough after about 10 minutes I hear some noises in the timber off to my right....I stop and get into a shooting position...wind was good, I had a good rest and the noises were headed my way...struggling to control my breathing and heart rate I finally calm...it must have been at least 20 minutes but it seemed way longer....all of a sudden 2 cow elk pop out of the timber and I realize I was on a wild goose chase........oh well! that was exciting...now I hear growls...not the scary kind, just my tummy...time to go back to camp for lunch....

later in the evening I go back to the same spot but travel a bit further down an abandoned road and I reach an old cutover...I slowly make my way through it towards the timber at the far side...as I am getting to the end of the cutover I see two WT does one big and one medium sized...unfortunately they saw me too and decided to run...they were running along a ridge near the trees and there was a mountain behind so I drop to one knee and lead the big one a little...the ole m70 dialed right in and with one shot it tumbles with almost a cartwheel.....

I wait a moment pretty sure the deer is down but I still have another WT tag to fill so I approach the ridgeline slowly and quietly...as I get to the ridge I spot the 2nd deer mulling around and it instantly bolts into the trees....I try to get a shooting position but to no avail as it was now gone..i knew there was probably a good chance the big one was down where the medium one was hanging out but I decide to circle around where I think the other might have gone....
after about 15-20 minutes of trying to find the medium doe I decide to go get the first one....it was a huge WT doe and I was pretty happy as I gutted it and dragged it across the river back to camp in the dark (only about 1km).

all of us met back at camp and hung my doe as well as another our new partner had gotten...3 deer in 2 days so far.....

after a decent meal we skinned the two we got that day...as I was skinning mine I grabbed the teets to cut around add sadly milk squirted everywhere....including on my buddy's hat...I called to him and said look at this....when he looked I nailed him with a blast of milk right in the face and we all had a good laugh...other buddy says to me....well that sucks....he says to me that I should prolly go back there and get the little one or the predators will.......I agreed that I would take the small one the next day if I could hook up with it but I never saw a small one at any time that I saw the other 2 (perhaps the fawn was already gone which might explain why the teets were so full of milk)

so for the next two mornings and evenings I go back to the same spot and look all around in every direction for about 1000m....

As light was fading on the 2nd evening looking for the little one, I decide to sit in a good vantage spot and give the area one last good look.....down and to my right is a creek with trees around it and as I am staring up towards the tree line I hear a familiar crunching noise...too loud for a deer I think to my self...must be those frisky elk cows again.....sure enough two cows are walking up the creek towards me but mostly hidden by trees...

I look away back to the tree line when I hear more crunches..i look back to the creek and see two more elk one is a calf and the other is a cow...now they have my attention so I watch them as they meander up the creek staying mostly hidden...all of a sudden I realize the last one is the biggest and it is sporting wood...I tube one and remember that I have 150 gr little bullets in the '06 so I don't blow up the little one....

I am sitting with elbows on knees trying to count points as the bull was weaving in and out of the trees......adrenalin kicks in so I take a deep breath to calm myself and look back towards the lead cow just as she decides to leave the trees of the creek and she proceeds to walk right out in front of me at about 75-100 yards....I look back to the bull 123....4...5 ahh maybe 6...now right behind the lead cow come the rest of the parade.... each one stopped in the exact spot directly in front of me..sure enough the bull came out and stopped....123..45...6 ...yesssssss...I put crosshairs on the heart and my '06 lets out a bark.....the elk doesn't even move....holy crap I am replaying the tape of storys I have heard about how tough elk are and how far they can run when they are wounded...I instinctively retube after a shot so I was ready to take a follow up right away..if needed I go for the neck on second shots....it hit spine and dropped the elk..i of course retubed and held steady on it...sure enough it tries to stand up and is now facing me...boom goes a 3rd shot (below the chin and to my righ a bit....it is still trying to stand up.....4th shot center right under the chin and down he went for good.....my first and only elk

[ACB]

I shot a doe once in the middle of Nov. not far from Boston Bar that was with a bunch of does and fawns, there was a group of 8-10 deer. The one that I shot was still producing milk as well. The only ones that I have shot since have been by them self's or with a buck mostly yearling does I think. But that said if you have a LEH tag it's legal to shoot one.

[HarryToolips]

I couldn’t shoot a fawn, also couldn’t shoot moms

Big dry doe
Yep, same here, passed up a many of the WT variety...