How does grazing cows affect your hunting area

[Vini]

I've been working on scouting a new area this year. I was a little late in getting the cams out but did get them out in late May. Anyway, I have been up a few time to check the cams and the area is very promising. I've gotten pics of many deer both bucks and does. This past weekend I checked again and noticed that cows are now grazing in the area. Actually, a group of them bedded down right in front of my camera. While reviewing the pics, I noticed that the cows may have been actually chasing a few deer away. My question is: How do cows grazing in an area affect the deer population and activities? Should I consider focusing in a different area?

[Foxton Gundogs]

Here we go again.

[albravo2]

One of my favourite deer areas is seasonally shared with cattle and I've never noticed much of a difference when they are there versus not there.

Good time to post a backcountry reminder-- if you find a gate closed but have permission to carry on, close it again as soon as you are through. If you find it open, leave it open.

[BRvalley]

I have found it'll displace the deer but only for a short time, the cows are always moving, i'll get less pics of deer for a few days when the cattle are in that area, but then they'll come back

[Darksith]

The biggest problem with cows in the area where your cams are is that you cant put down a salt lick or bait as the cows will sit on it. Im not sure there are many area's around Kamloops that don't have cows grazing at some point in time, so it sucks that you could hear something moving, stock in only to find a cow, but I have seen them standing together on lots of occassions

[boxhitch]

Ranchers will be putting out salt of their own, though not used often by deer late in the fall, they do visit the sites.

Time for a new blind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BbGLWdyxCo

[r106]

Ultimately it makes no difference. I hunt mulies and whities in areas with cows, i find deer dont like to hang out close to them but the deer are still around.

Its just annoying getting 500 pics of cows and 2 deer lol.

[guest]

Oh My Boxhitch......lol
Youve given me a new idea ....way less work and set up time then Willow blinds we do in Saskatchewan for Geese Lol. Does it come in Blacknwhite, Brown, Brownnwhite??
Cows Calves Bulls Big Bull models??? for big n small people?

Oh and do they make a Variety of Horse models too?

[Mosin]

Some deer probably stay away while others don't even seem to notice. I have seen deer hanging out very close to cows as they graze.

[Ohwildwon]

One word, Shitty. :p

[walks with deer]

i shot a whotetail that was on a trot at 220 one day good back stop for bullet hit the deer perfect for the angle no guts no shoulder dead on impact...

man i was scared when the cow i did not see 20yards to its left started mooing at the shot i was sure i had just got a whitetail and would have to buy a cow..lol

even the spookies deer can be among cattle.

[walks with deer]

the biggest issue with cattle occurs when the area is overgrazed by the cattle this occurs allover the province and the last time a farmer was audited too how many head he had compared to his lease not saying the lease could even sustain his allotment was 1972....

there is alot of responsible ranchers...but abuse is almost ramped aswell with no enforcment..i help my neighbours on three different leases and hunt many lease areas..i notice more game on the non over grazed leases...yet i also notice more game on active leases than non active as the veg is greener and younger and less blow down and under brush..

cattle grazing is way better than spraying for dealing with regen forest.

[walks with deer]

and beats down the fire hazard..most cattle are pulled by first week of october leaving ample hunting time in most mu's

[Ohwildwon]

Yep, way to much over grazing in to many areas, take Roche Lake Provincial Park for example.

Disgusting.

Hmmm, just when I thought I was on a an actual game trail, not

[Ferenc]

Back in the day my dad hunted the Stoddard meadows in Kamloops and did very well on bringing the moose always home, I can remember one late afternoon and a black bear chasing two cows around the meadow... and Gisbourne Lake was full of Wellands cattle .... back in the day a lot moose also hung out with them. It took a good day to get in there with a good 4x4 ... if it was a wet year it was almost a no go ... lots of cows ... lots of moose.

[walks with deer]

half of the ministry workers are almost 65 and freinds with the farmers and or on the take...

think about it feed is not cheap..how many feilds do you see of hay cow corn ect...160 a round bail is the price right know and with a wet year many farmers wont have to irrigat but wont cut tell it goes to seed or will get rained on and turn to moldy shit sileage..if a farmer even puts 3 more cow calf pairs on a range than hes alowed thats 3600-4600 more dollars come auction in oct..that he never had to feed..he pays a range fee but its peanuts. ao if he sneaks 20 extra pairs on a 80 head lease how much is his profit?
he pulls them down in oct the foilage is rapped he sells the calfs maybe twins and only has to feed the heffers a few months and repeat.
i think for proper wildlife managment hunters,ranvher,loggers, and native need to partner...with all issue road access,grazing,harvest,water,cover..ect.

[walks with deer]

so twenty pairs snuck in half twins that is 30 more calves for auction at 1200 a peice...is over grazing a massive issue?? you bet..same valley one range has 60 head allowance other range has 60 head allowance north facing range has twenty cows and a robust deer population south face has 140 cows low deer numbers..hmm must be a coincedence..

[r106]

half of the ministry workers are almost 65 and freinds with the farmers and or on the take...

think about it feed is not cheap..how many feilds do you see of hay cow corn ect...160 a round bail is the price right know and with a wet year many farmers wont have to irrigat but wont cut tell it goes to seed or will get rained on and turn to moldy shit sileage..if a farmer even puts 3 more cow calf pairs on a range than hes alowed thats 3600-4600 more dollars come auction in oct..that he never had to feed..he pays a range fee but its peanuts. ao if he sneaks 20 extra pairs on a 80 head lease how much is his profit?
he pulls them down in oct the foilage is rapped he sells the calfs maybe twins and only has to feed the heffers a few months and repeat.
i think for proper wildlife managment hunters,ranvher,loggers, and native need to partner...with all issue road access,grazing,harvest,water,cover..ect.

My friend pays less than half that for a round bail.

[walks with deer]

great probably straight run grass non irregated high straw content...or they purchase it from a long standing freing look small square bails roughly way 60 pounds and sell for 7-8 dollars a bail...typically a round bail is supposed to be 1 tonne.. they may be light..

[HarryToolips]

Some deer probably stay away while others don't even seem to notice. I have seen deer hanging out very close to cows as they graze.
I have seen this with deer, particularly whitetails, as well...

[barongan]

never experienced it. but this is a very interesting discussion to followhttp://juragan.club/assets/13/o.png

[gcreek]

great probably straight run grass non irregated high straw content...or they purchase it from a long standing freing look small square bails roughly way 60 pounds and sell for 7-8 dollars a bail...typically a round bail is supposed to be 1 tonne.. they may be light..


A lot of your “facts” are immensely skewed. I will leave it at that. Many truths in this thread and most guys here have actually paid attention.

Threads like this one sure make a guy wonder why hunters need access to leases and will trespass on private land when many of them think ranchers are land rapists and there is no wildlife where cattle are or have been.

Carry on guys.

[REMINGTON JIM]

I HATE hunting where cattle abound shitting all over the place and stinking it up ! :eek: RJ

[Redthies]

One of my favorite spots has seen a lot of cattle the past two years. Nothing says fun like spending an hour stalking up to a group of bedded down mulie’s to only have the cowboys drive a herd right through the middle of them. I was NOT impressed. And yes, I agree with RJ about the amount of shit and smell, not to mention the f’d up water holes etc.

My experience has been negative, and has occurred in a “protected area”. I should probably look into whether or not it’s legal for them to graze there...

[walks with deer]

gcreek not attacking ranchers at all sir i beleive you and i met in chezakut wrong spelling..i am a farmer myself.not immemsley skewed just the rules i see bent through observation...like your cattle losses suck but your range is on the edge of a mass wildernece some are expected...i spent many days this april branding i am not against ranching and last week i found my neighbours herd for them as i know there range well..

[walks with deer]

all i was saying all ranchers hunter natives and guides need to band toghether and deal with are internal.government before fighting internally..i have right know 227 animals in my yard i dont think i am anti grazing or farming..i beleive i still have your phone number if your who i think you are...ps i am the young guy whos family used to own the north end of puntzi if that jogs your memory.

end of the day over grazing is the same as over harvest your welcome to come for a weekend i will give you a place to stay and steak dinner and show you...you would agree.

[labguy]

A lot of your “facts” are immensely skewed. I will leave it at that. Many truths in this thread and most guys here have actually paid attention.

Threads like this one sure make a guy wonder why hunters need access to leases and will trespass on private land when many of them think ranchers are land rapists and there is no wildlife where cattle are or have been.

Carry on guys.

Respectfully, and I mean that sincerely, I believe your perspective is a bit skewed.

The ranching industry is responsible for many of the environmental degradations in B.C. Here are a few examples:

-overgrazing: I've personally witnessed many areas that when the cows leave there isn't enough grass left to feed a gopher. This occurs in prime winter range for moose and mule deer as well as high elevation areas that support (or used to support sheep)

-degradation of water supplies: Again, I've personally witnessed riparian areas at the headwaters of creeks and rivers, trampled into oblivion, befouled with excrement and essentially unrecognizable from what they were before the cattle were allowed there. This occurs often at higher elevations where, in my opinion, grazing should not be allowed because of the destructive nature of cattle.

-spread of noxious weeds: Anyone who has even an elementary knowlege of what constitutes "noxious" weeds can see that cattle are a major contributor to their spread. Knappweed, Canada thistle, Russian thistle, sulphur sancfoil. Milk thistle, and a host of others are now commonplace throughout most of the province. These weeds are introduced to new ranges through seeds attaching themselves to the coats on cattle or through their excrement.

These are just a few examples without getting into methane gas produced or the gazillions of cultivated acres necessary to feed the herds.

Not all ranchers are irresponsible abusers of public land but many are. The point of this post is not to slam ranchers but to point out that the ranching industry cannot reasonably take the moral high ground in this debate as stewards. They do but need to take some responsibility for the damage that's been caused.

Anyway, don't take it personally. I enjoy your perspective and respect your opinions. I'm simply trying to inject some reality into this discussion.

[walks with deer]

labguy well said...

[Piperdown]

So while up at the cabin in early May, i noticed cows on the range on May 10th, was hardly a stick of green grass to be seen anywhere. So i asked what gives, answer we are out of hay and didn't want to buy more so we let them out!!

[Ride Red]

Respectfully, and I mean that sincerely, I believe your perspective is a bit skewed.

The ranching industry is responsible for many of the environmental degradations in B.C. Here are a few examples:

-overgrazing: I've personally witnessed many areas that when the cows leave there isn't enough grass left to feed a gopher. This occurs in prime winter range for moose and mule deer as well as high elevation areas that support (or used to support sheep)

-degradation of water supplies: Again, I've personally witnessed riparian areas at the headwaters of creeks and rivers, trampled into oblivion, befouled with excrement and essentially unrecognizable from what they were before the cattle were allowed there. This occurs often at higher elevations where, in my opinion, grazing should not be allowed because of the destructive nature of cattle.

-spread of noxious weeds: Anyone who has even an elementary knowlege of what constitutes "noxious" weeds can see that cattle are a major contributor to their spread. Knappweed, Canada thistle, Russian thistle, sulphur sancfoil. Milk thistle, and a host of others are now commonplace throughout most of the province. These weeds are introduced to new ranges through seeds attaching themselves to the coats on cattle or through their excrement.

These are just a few examples without getting into methane gas produced or the gazillions of cultivated acres necessary to feed the herds.

Not all ranchers are irresponsible abusers of public land but many are. The point of this post is not to slam ranchers but to point out that the ranching industry cannot reasonably take the moral high ground in this debate as stewards. They do but need to take some responsibility for the damage that's been caused.

Anyway, don't take it personally. I enjoy your perspective and respect your opinions. I'm simply trying to inject some reality into this discussion.

As an ex-farmer, cattle do not eat these weeds. Not sure where you get your info from, but it is 100% wrong. As far as transferring seeds, burs etc on cattle hides; do they not attach to deer, elk, moose, bear etc??? Wild game travel many more miles than range cattle, so I’m thinking they play a big part in transfers also.

[walks with deer]

ride red are you serious

[Ride Red]

ride red are you serious

About what I posted?
I’m always serious.

[walks with deer]

overgrazing allows room for the non grazed invasives to spread at a quicker rate..cows move alot of burdock and thistle around for sure.

[Dannybuoy]

As an ex-farmer, cattle do not eat these weeds. Not sure where you get your info from, but it is 100% wrong. As far as transferring seeds, burs etc on cattle hides; do they not attach to deer, elk, moose, bear etc??? Wild game travel many more miles than range cattle, so I’m thinking they play a big part in transfers also.
Not sure what you farmed but it wasn't cattle .... cows love thistles . You are right about a lot of seeds being transferred by sticking to hides etc .
As far as hunting where cows graze .... it's awesum because they mask your scent and any bush noise . I have walked up to numerous bucks at very close range when cows are in the area .

[happyhunter]

As an ex-farmer, cattle do not eat these weeds. Not sure where you get your info from, but it is 100% wrong. As far as transferring seeds, burs etc on cattle hides; do they not attach to deer, elk, moose, bear etc??? Wild game travel many more miles than range cattle, so I’m thinking they play a big part in transfers also.

Cattle are first moved from a place that is likely infested with invasives in the first place that get spread when they are moved to the range. So not the same scenario as deer, moose etc. Machinery, vehicles are probably worse offenders.

[labguy]

As an ex-farmer, cattle do not eat these weeds. Not sure where you get your info from, but it is 100% wrong. As far as transferring seeds, burs etc on cattle hides; do they not attach to deer, elk, moose, bear etc??? Wild game travel many more miles than range cattle, so I’m thinking they play a big part in transfers also.

Cattle are transported to varying ranges throughout this province by a transport when sold at auction or from private ranches.

I'd also suggest you re-think your statement that they not eat weeds. I live in ranch country and have cattle grazing on my property during the summer/fall. Here in the Okanagan this is a common method of transfer. Certainly they don't eat every kind of weed but they do eat some.

[adriaticum]

IMO cows negatively affect hunting in the short term because they eat the food that deer would otherwise eat.
Usually when I see cattle on trailcams, deer are soon gone from the area. They eventually return but in the short term they are gone.
Depending on the number of cattle they could have a short term detrimental effect to the environment because they trample everything and crap on everything.
But in the long term cattle are necessary for the soil.
Cow manure is the best fertilizer and after a year or two when them pies are fully baked they are what the soil needs.
So soil and grazers are interdependent.
There could not be one without the other.
Cows are enriching the soil on those mountains which would otherwise be much poorer.

Some people see deer close to cattle and think that deer are not affected by cattle, but it's a matter of timing.
When cows move into an area you might see them together but over time cattle will eat everything in that area and there will be no food left, so deer will have to move on.

It's also about how deer and cattle eat.
Deer are constantly on the move and they nip on grass here and there while they move.
Deer don't usually over graze an area unless they are in the city and feel protected from predators.
On the other hand cattle are more or less stationary and have no predators and only move on when they run out of food in the area.

Together forestry and cattle have a negative effect on deer in the short term.
Forestry destroys their homes and cattle eat their food.

3-4 years ago I saw plenty of 4 point mulies in my area and even missed one. There was a video on here about it.
Groups of 2 or 3 big bucks together all 4 point or better.
I haven't seen those deer since. But cattle have moved in.

That's my conclusion anyways.

[bearvalley]

Interesting bunch of babble........
Lol!
There have been a lot of studies published by “real professionals” that support the theory that properly grazed land can actually be a benefit to ungulates.
As for the noxious weeds.....sure a cow, other forms of livestock and wildlife will spread invasive plant species already within the local area....and in the odd situation where cattle are trucked in they can bring outside “noxious weeds” to the area.......but the same holds true with personal vehicles, atv’s and industrial equipment.
My take on this is the cow gets the bad rap because some “prima donna” outdoorsman doesn’t like a little cow shit on his boots.

[adriaticum]

Interesting bunch of babble........
Lol!
There have been a lot of studies published by “real professionals” that support the theory that properly grazed land can actually be a benefit to ungulates.
As for the noxious weeds.....sure a cow, other forms of livestock and wildlife will spread invasive plant species already within the local area....and in the odd situation where cattle are trucked in they can bring outside “noxious weeds” to the area.......but the same holds true with personal vehicles, atv’s and industrial equipment.
My take on this is the cow gets the bad rap because some “prima donna” outdoorsman doesn’t like a little cow shit on his boots.


In the long term, yes, cattle are good for the soil quality and in turn good for ungulates.
But in the short term, which this is about, cattle are bad for hunting and ungulates.
But what's worse is stripping entire mountains of trees.

[bearvalley]

In the long term, yes, cattle are good for the soil quality and in turn good for ungulates.
But in the short term, which this is about, cattle are bad for hunting and ungulates.
But what's worse is stripping entire mountains of trees.


”But in the short term, which this is about, cattle are bad for hunting and ungulates.”

That statement is laughable considering the amount of people that annually ask permission to hunt wildlife on privately owned ranchland each and every fall.
Doesn’t it strike you strange that guys will line up to hunt some ranchers fall pasture, looking for that big buck in amongst the cows.

Its been prove there are short term benefits as well.
For example, moderate grazing by livestock of ungulate winter range can improve the protein values of feed for overwintering wildlife.
Of course this does not hold true if the area is overgrazed.
For the most part cattle and deer feed on different browse, the same with moose. Elk and cattle will compete for the same feed.
The wrong tree is being barked up if some want to look at cattle as the cause of wildlife declines.
Livestock numbers in BC on range are at historical low numbers.

Maybe we need to look at the human footprint, lack of wildlife & predator management and industrial activity.

I agree with you that BC’s past logging/forestry practices have been nothing but a shit show when it comes to maintaining viable wildlife populations.

[Ride Red]

Not sure what you farmed but it wasn't cattle .... cows love thistles . You are right about a lot of seeds being transferred by sticking to hides etc .
As far as hunting where cows graze .... it's awesum because they mask your scent and any bush noise . I have walked up to numerous bucks at very close range when cows are in the area .

Do you know what a thistle looks like or a cow for that matter? They are sharp/prickly and cows don't like them. My inlaws have 3000 acres in the Chilcotin with one very distinct patch of thistle in which everything around has be grazed on but every single thistle is still in tact. When we fed hay that had the odd thistle in the bale, it was the only thing left behind.

[Ride Red]

Cattle are transported to varying ranges throughout this province by a transport when sold at auction or from private ranches.

I'd also suggest you re-think your statement that they not eat weeds. I live in ranch country and have cattle grazing on my property during the summer/fall. Here in the Okanagan this is a common method of transfer. Certainly they don't eat every kind of weed but they do eat some.

Do they eat thistle as you stated previously?

[Ride Red]

overgrazing allows room for the non grazed invasives to spread at a quicker rate..cows move alot of burdock and thistle around for sure.

I won't dispute this as cattle aren't grazing on them which allows these plants to go to seed, thus spreading themselves out.

[labguy]

Do they eat thistle as you stated previously?

I did not state that previously. I stated they eat weeds and poop out the seeds, I also states they don't eat all weeds. Grasping at straws here?

[adriaticum]

Here is a manual on how to train cattle to eat thistle.
From BC cattlemen's association.

https://www.cattlemen.bc.ca/docs/presentation_cattle_managing_weeds_bcca_2016635930 694904173555.pdf

[Ride Red]

I did not state that previously. I stated they eat weeds and poop out the seeds, I also states they don't eat all weeds. Grasping at straws here?

spread of noxious weeds: Anyone who has even an elementary knowlege of what constitutes "noxious" weeds can see that cattle are a major contributor to their spread. Knappweed, Canada thistle, Russian thistle, sulphur sancfoil. Milk thistle, and a host of others are now commonplace throughout most of the province. These weeds are introduced to new ranges through seeds attaching themselves to the coats on cattle or through their excrement.

[Ride Red]

Here is a manual on how to train cattle to eat thistle.
From BC cattlemen's association.

https://www.cattlemen.bc.ca/docs/presentation_cattle_managing_weeds_bcca_2016635930 694904173555.pdf

Very interesting; Thanks for the link.

[willyqbc]

Probably the biggest mule deer ive personally laid my hands on....a big 9x9....was shot feeding in amongst some cows. Almost wonder if the smart ones use a bunch of cows as "sentries"?

[Mudsey]

I was stalking a bull elk in a rolling field and when out of sight started jogging to cover ground. There were cattle there and they started running along with me, I slowed down and the cows lost interested and I stalked the rest of the way up the hill finishing by belly crawling until in range of my bull.

[Dannybuoy]

Very interesting; Thanks for the link.
Apology accepted .... maybe you had a few finicky cows ....

[gcreek]

spread of noxious weeds: Anyone who has even an elementary knowlege of what constitutes "noxious" weeds can see that cattle are a major contributor to their spread. Knappweed, Canada thistle, Russian thistle, sulphur sancfoil. Milk thistle, and a host of others are now commonplace throughout most of the province. These weeds are introduced to new ranges through seeds attaching themselves to the coats on cattle or through their excrement.

I would guess that the spread of weeds is more of a local issue if livestock are doing the spreading. Would also make an educated guess that wheeled or tracked vehicles of all kinds more widely spread weeds. We are all guilty, whether moving hay from one area to another or driving an ATV or truck through a weedy area and then going for a drive up a new logging road. Very few completely wash their mode of transportation with every change of scenery.

There are several cases I am aware of regarding Ducks Unlimited or Nature Conservancy land that livestock were excluded from and then asked to return after several years. When growth becomes woody and old bottom chokes out new the wildlife left too.

[Ride Red]

Apology accepted .... maybe you had a few finicky cows ....

This wasn’t an apology.

[Ride Red]

I would guess that the spread of weeds is more of a local issue if livestock are doing the spreading. Would also make an educated guess that wheeled or tracked vehicles of all kinds more widely spread weeds. We are all guilty, whether moving hay from one area to another or driving an ATV or truck through a weedy area and then going for a drive up a new logging road. Very few completely wash their mode of transportation with every change of scenery.

There are several cases I am aware of regarding Ducks Unlimited or Nature Conservancy land that livestock were excluded from and then asked to return after several years. When growth becomes woody and old bottom chokes out new the wildlife left too.

Vehicles definitely transport there fair share of weed seeds. Just look at the radiator on trucks and all around atv/utv for build up. Some would just peg cows as the culprit cause they don’t know any better.

[Liveforthehunt]

I have personally had alot of success near and around cattle shooting many of deer within a few hundred yards of cattle. I Prefer to not hunt where they roam but sometimes it's hard to get away from them ... in saying that cows take the path of least resistance the majority of the time using logging roads and not wondering far off ckearcuts etc. If you dig a little deeper you may find areas with no cattle within a few hundred yards of heavy cattle trails .

[gcreek]

Respectfully, and I mean that sincerely, I believe your perspective is a bit skewed.

The ranching industry is responsible for many of the environmental degradations in B.C. Here are a few examples:

-overgrazing: I've personally witnessed many areas that when the cows leave there isn't enough grass left to feed a gopher. This occurs in prime winter range for moose and mule deer as well as high elevation areas that support (or used to support sheep)

I agree this does happen. To some extent on "sacrifice areas" on my own range. However, on my range, only 40% is grass and only 40% of that is not muskeg and unuseable. The sacrificial areas total less than 1/2% of usable grass here. I do see other areas that I shake my head at year after year and wonder why management hasn't changed. Overgrazing cost lbs too.




-degradation of water supplies: Again, I've personally witnessed riparian areas at the headwaters of creeks and rivers, trampled into oblivion, befouled with excrement and essentially unrecognizable from what they were before the cattle were allowed there. This occurs often at higher elevations where, in my opinion, grazing should not be allowed because of the destructive nature of cattle.

Again, have seen this. You may have noticed in some areas, waterways are being fenced through cost sharing programs. Here in the swamps there is water available everywhere so cattle don't continually hammer those areas.



-spread of noxious weeds: Anyone who has even an elementary knowlege of what constitutes "noxious" weeds can see that cattle are a major contributor to their spread. Knappweed, Canada thistle, Russian thistle, sulphur sancfoil. Milk thistle, and a host of others are now commonplace throughout most of the province. These weeds are introduced to new ranges through seeds attaching themselves to the coats on cattle or through their excrement.

Would make an educated guess that far more weeds are spread by wheeled or tracked vehicles than livestock. Very few people bother to wash the complete vehicle with every change of scenery.




These are just a few examples without getting into methane gas produced or the gazillions of cultivated acres necessary to feed the herds.

Methane gas is a non issue, there were far more ungulates before cattle arrive than there are now INCLUDING the cattle.



Not all ranchers are irresponsible abusers of public land but many are. The point of this post is not to slam ranchers but to point out that the ranching industry cannot reasonably take the moral high ground in this debate as stewards. They do but need to take some responsibility for the damage that's been caused.


Agreed, as do ALL users of Crown areas.



Anyway, don't take it personally. I enjoy your perspective and respect your opinions. I'm simply trying to inject some reality into this discussion.

Not enough talent to add color to my observations. Nothing personal from my end either. Keep yer stick on the ice!

[gcreek]

So while up at the cabin in early May, i noticed cows on the range on May 10th, was hardly a stick of green grass to be seen anywhere. So i asked what gives, answer we are out of hay and didn't want to buy more so we let them out!!

If those cattle were out before that operation's turnout date without ok from the local Range Officer they were in contravention of the Forest and Range Act and were due a warning or fine. Did you report them?

[Salty]

There's been cows on the land in BC for 150 years they didn't make the game run away then and they don't now. I hunt a lot of cattle areas, mainly deer and I really can't see that the cows make a difference one way or the other. As said earlier they are a huge pain in the ass if you're running cameras. Last year I picked two spots about 50 kms apart that were way back in blow down no cattle sign where I picked. I don't know if it was the salt or what but both spots were found by cattle in about July and they flattened chest high logs to get to it and turned both areas into mud pits. Couldn't believe it. But hey, the deer were still around pretty much a first world problem...

Like anything though the range system isn't perfect I've seen wet lands and fish creeks trashed. Most of the time though I find it pretty well run. Most ranchers care a few don't.

[Piperdown]

If those cattle were out before that operation's turnout date without ok from the local Range Officer they were in contravention of the Forest and Range Act and were due a warning or fine. Did you report them?
I have 80 acres in the middle of the range, no i didnt report them if i wanted to have a cabin to come back too, what would your buddy Joe do if you reported him!!

[Norwestalta]

Lots of deer are shot in the cow pasture.

[REMINGTON JIM]

As far as hunting where cows graze .... it's awesum because they mask your scent and any bush noise . I have walked up to numerous bucks at very close range when cows are in the area .

You must SMELL - STINK really Badly ! RJ

[Dannybuoy]

You must SMELL - STINK really Badly ! RJ
Now your just being mean .....:shock:

[Dannybuoy]

This wasn’t an apology.
No? But we both know it should have been as you insinuated I was wrong saying cows do indeed eat thistles and you have since learned this is indeed a fact .

[Ride Red]

No? But we both know it should have been as you insinuated I was wrong saying cows do indeed eat thistles and you have since learned this is indeed a fact .

Still not an apology. Out of close to 600 head on three different ranches/farms of ours and still the thistles weren’t eaten. That was my observation and my opinion. If you’re still not satisfied with this explanation, too bad.

[Dannybuoy]

Still not an apology. Out of close to 600 head on three different ranches/farms of ours and still the thistles weren’t eaten. That was my observation and my opinion. If you’re still not satisfied with this explanation, too bad.
Ha ha ha ... wow 600 ? So a hobby farm .....that explains your limited view but not your stubbornness . We'll leave it at too bad

[walks with deer]

stinky... new hbc name for dannybuoy..

stinkybuoy!!! it has a good ring too it.

[walks with deer]

ridered come on know we all do know cows eat thistles... it come in with your hay..
winter time a cow will eat newspaper..

[walks with deer]

salty lot of decent ranchers for sure...

also what happened to all the elk that used to call the merritt area home before the ranchers...

[Vini]

So I had a legitimate question. Came here to ask\. Found this box with P...P...P.. Pandora written on it and thought what the heck let's open it.
But seriously, thanks everyone who answered THE QUESTION. The rest of you that argued the merits of grazing on public land, I'm taking my question and leaving :D .
I can attest that once the cows found the salt, the area looks like a bomb went off. I will continue to monitor and keep you posted. This spot is an alpine meadow and I think the cows have grazed up there in past years. When I first went up it looked really good but I had a feeling that cows had grazed up there as the trails were too well defined. My cam picked up a few good looking bucks so hopefully they stick around. I think I have another question that will stir the pot. Will start a new thread for that one

[Vini]

UPDATE: Checked my cams and cows DO affect the dear movement. Less deer seem on one cam that has a lot of cows on. Other cams have shown less cows on it and more deer. I don't think that deer have moved out of the area completely, but definitely using different travel paths

[wideopenthrottle]

my most successful honey hole for WT is in a pinch point above where the cattle spend the night. they move up the same way with deer leading or being pushed..once the cows get to my morning spot I start to slowly work my way ahead of them to where the deer like to go even if I missed them at the pinch point. I have also taken mule deer near a lake close to Clinton when there were cattle around...I have also seen moose near cattle in that same area above un-named lake

[browningboy]

Just my observation, when I see cows in the bush I'm not too excited about hunting that area, rather move on... Stupid cows and their bad farts