My first Blacktail Nov2000

[Paulyman]

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/Paulyman_ca/Scan08152007_133134.jpg



Could someone please tell me if this Blacktail would be considered a big blacktail,before i shot this deer which by the way was my very first i had only seen muley's so i assumed it wasn't a big deer,learning more about blacktails i understand they dont get as big as muleys, if i remember correctly i estimated it to be about 180- 190 on the hoof


Paul

[Marc]

Nice blacktail, congrats. I've yet to even see a blacktail of that calibre.

[BlacktailStalker]

Thats a beauty alright if it's off Vancouver Island.
Was that taken on the Island or is it a coastal blacktail ?

[Freshtracks]

A great looking blacktail most won't see in many seasons. Was it taken on the Island? Congrats on a tough to beat first.

[Paulyman]

Nice blacktail, congrats. I've yet to even see a blacktail of that calibre.
Marc, I see you are from Vancouver Island, i do believe the mainland Blacktails are bigger that the Island ones.

I got this one out of Chilliwack.

[Allen50]

i have many black tail deer from the island here and that is a good buck, i also have a nice bow kill one i got, been thinging of getting it head mounted, to go along with my mule deer mount i have.

[Thunderstix]

Decent for sure. I have personally never shot on that big and I have shot quite a few. I have seen 2 bigger shot. Something to be proud of.

[bsa30-06]

paulyman, be proud thats a fantastic blacktail congrats.

[lapadat]

Paul. First of all, any mature blacktail buck is a trophy.

You have a very nice looking buck there....I especially like the garage door bracket deer hanger.

lap

[CanAm500]

congrats on your blacktail!

[FlyingHigh]

Ok, I could be wrong here, but aren't mule deer also referred to as blacktails? Or is it just the same tag? Noob question, I know.

[lapadat]

Mule Deer are a seperate species from Blacktails. They are very closely related and can interbreed but still classify as different deer. The species tag covers both Mule Deer and BT's.

[Islandeer]

cutting hairs but Blackies are a sub species of the muley, your buck is a dandy, one that you will likely measure future Blacktails against. Good on yah.

[Paulyman]

Paul. First of all, any mature blacktail buck is a trophy.

You have a very nice looking buck there....I especially like the garage door bracket deer hanger.

lap
Yes the garage door is a nice touch,the best part of that setup is how all the people walking by were horrified to see an animal hanging,keep in mind that was when i was living in a heavily populated subdivision of westwood plateau

Oh what the neighbors must have thought

I guess a story should go along with that deer eh,


Back in Nov 2000 when i started hunting, I decided one evening that i wanted to go out hunting the following day, i ended up sleeping in as i couldn't sleep the night before, because i was too excited. so the day started out with me driving straight ou to my spot in chilliwack and doing alot of hiking and looking for signs which i did most of the morning. by 10 am i started to get a little restless and hungry so i decided to drive to a different location and have a break to recharge. I got out of my truck, walked a few hundred meteres down a trail till i came to a clearing ,had a quick glass and decided to sit down for my break. No longer had i unwrapped a granola bar i started to hear something running towards me just out of sight, then appears this awesome 4by 4 blacktail. by this point i had already grabbed my rifle and went to take a shot when i realised that i unloaded the gun when i got into my truck earlier,so now i am in full panic mode, got my bullets out and put one in the breach closed it and guess what, the scope strap got stuck in the breach as well, so now i am shaking like a leaf buck fever in full effect. I finally got the scope cover strap out raised the rifle, lined up and took the long range shot of a whopping 10 yards max.This was my most rewarding hunt ever as i had gone by myself, done all the work myself and got this beauty as my first.

I'm now hooked and will never look back to my days without hunting in my life.

[Thunderstix]

Since we are talking science, scientists have determined through DNA that Mulies originally came from Blacktails and Whitetails mating.

[greenhorn]

That looks like a big one to me. Nice full body! I've seen some bigger antlers on a few BTs though.

Way to go!

[Will]

Yeppers that would be/or should be a Fine BlackieBuck by anyone's standards.
Congrats:cool:

[lapadat]

Paul.

Its suprising how many mature BT's are killed during mid-day. The deer I've been patterning in the Chwk valley are out at first light, then bed around 7:30-8:00 and then are back up and moving around between 9 and 11.

I had the exact same experience with my first BT (a smallish 4pt). I had hiked into the alpine before first light, glassed all morning, had a snack and was returning to my truck to go home around 10:00 and bumped 3 bucks feeding together (Sept 22 weekend). Goes to show that we should continue hunting the late morning.

How often do you hunt the Chwk BT's?

[Paulyman]

Paul.

Its suprising how many mature BT's are killed during mid-day. The deer I've been patterning in the Chwk valley are out at first light, then bed around 7:30-8:00 and then are back up and moving around between 9 and 11.

I had the exact same experience with my first BT (a smallish 4pt). I had hiked into the alpine before first light, glassed all morning, had a snack and was returning to my truck to go home around 10:00 and bumped 3 bucks feeding together (Sept 22 weekend). Goes to show that we should continue hunting the late morning.

How often do you hunt the Chwk BT's?

I haven't hunted the chilliwack bt's in a while, in general, i find the area pretty tough to hunt lots of looking not much seeing. I got really lucky when i bagged this guy, correct me if i'm wrong but mid november this guy would have been rutting? he ran to me thinking i was a challenger gave me a hoof stomp on the ground and then stood there forever right in front of me and yes i think miday is a perfectly good time to hunt anywhere, just as long as its cool out. my opinion is , if its hot, it's grouse hunting time!

[lapadat]

Yes, your deer would most likely have at least been starting the rut phase in which case they can be active any time of day. My comments about mid-morning still apply during pre and post-rut hunting. And as far as warm weather goes, I would agree for the most part, except that I've killed mature bt bucks in 15 degree weather. Go figure.

[Gnarly]

Here's a Chilliwack blacktail I took on 1 Nov 2005, just goes to show they are around
http://i13.tinypic.com/4lnmmf7.jpg
http://i11.tinypic.com/6au3rkp.jpg

[Paulyman]

Nice looking deer!, does anyone know where the mule deer start showing up?, about 7 years ago we got this one out of Hope skagit valley, but are there any mulies closer to vancouver or is it just Blackies?

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/Paulyman_ca/Scan09232007_174653.jpg

[ruger#1]

Heck , Paul that is a nice blacktail. I would be proud of that one. Next post is something for Islander to read.

[lapadat]

The Mule/BT boundary as defined by Boone and Crocket

British Columbia — Starting at the Washington-British Columbia border, blacktail deer range runs west of the height of land between the Skagit and the Chilliwack Ranges, intersecting the Fraser River opposite the mouth of Ruby Creek, then west to and up Harrison Lake to and up Tipella Creek to the height of land in Garibaldi Park and northwesterly along this divide past Alta Lake, Mt. Dalgleish and Mt. Waddington, thence north to Bella Coola. From Bella Coola, the boundary continues north to the head of Dean Channel, Gardner Canal and Douglas Channel to the town of Anyox, then due west to the Alaska-British Columbia border, which is then followed south to open water. This boundary excludes the area west of the Klesilkwa River and the west side of the Lillooet River.

[ruger#1]

The Columbian Blacktail Deer
By Dan Gibson
For many years the Columbian Blacktail Deer has been considered a subspecies of the Mule deer, however recent DNA testing has proven this not to be the case. In Valerius Geist's informative book Mule Deer Country he explains that by testing the mitochondrial DNA (the mothers DNA ) of the three species (blacktail, whitetail and mule deer), researchers have now determined that it was the mating of Whitetail does and Blacktail buck's that gave rise to the Mule deer and not the opposite as was once suspected.

It is now believed that millions of years ago the Whitetail deer expanded its range down the east coast of the United States, across Mexico, and then back up the West coast, where it eventually evolved into the Blacktail Deer. This may help to explain the strong resemblance in appearance and psychological characteristics between the two. Thousands of years later as the recently evolved Blacktail's range spread eastward and the Whitehall's range again expanded westward, the two deer again met. At this point the Blacktail bucks, displaced the Whitetail bucks, and bred the Whitetail does. Researches now believe that it is this hybridization that produced what is now know as the Muledeer.

For those of you not familiar with the Columbian Blacktail, their range, as recognized by Boone and Crockett (B&C), extends form central British Columbia, south to the Monterey Bay in California. Columbian Blacktails inhabit a narrow strip of land from the shores of the pacific ocean inland for approximately a hundred miles. This distance will of course vary from location to location

In regards to the geographic boundaries of the Columbian Blacktail one must rely on the observations of wildlife biologists, graduate students and scientists, who have done extensive scientific research and identification on the Columbian Blacktail and it's range. I wish it was as simple as having years of hunting experience in order to be able do identify the possible genetic make-up of a particular deer, but unfortunately it isn't. This is why DNA is such an important tool in deer identification.

When I refer to the boundaries of the Columbian Blacktail, I am referring to the recognized Boone & Crockett boundaries. B&C's boundaries are not the exact boundaries of the Columbian Blacktail, they have actually been moved slightly inward to help reduce the possibility of hybridization with Muledeer or Muledeer/Blacktail crosses. Since we are a hunting website these are the boundaries we recognize.There are undoubtedly pure Columbian Blacktails in other area's but because of possible hybridization, they are not considered pure Columbian Blacktails by B&C. Just because a buck appears to be 100% Columbian, doesn't mean that generations ago there wasn't a Muledeer in his heritage.
Blacktail deer on average are smaller than their Whitetail and Muledeer cousins. Here in my north western California a 140 pound buck (live weight) is considered very good size. Blacktail bucks do occasionally approach 200 pounds, but from my experience, it's a very rare occurrence. Years ago I killed a huge bodied forked horn in San Joaquine county that tipped the scales at 171 pounds field dressed. To date this buck is the largest Columbian Blacktail I have ever personally witnessed.

Although I do not have a lot of experience with Oregon Blacktails I am told they are slightly larger in body size than the California bucks. Washington on the other hand produces some very large bodied Blacktails. If my experience with this website is any indication, it appears that bucks weighing 175 lb. field dressed are not that uncommon in the "Evergreen state".

Horn size in Blacktails runs contrary to what one might expect and is an often debated topic among Blacktail hunters. In the Columbian Blacktail body size appears to have little relationship to horn size. This is generally not the situation with Whitetail and Muledeer. In their case, body size and antler size are closely related and as a rule of thumb both get larger as you travel north. The larger the body the larger the antlers. This becomes very evident when you compare a Florida Whitetail to a Michigan Whitetail, or a Desert Mule Deer to a Rocky Mountain Mule Deer.

In the case of the Columbian Blacktail this circumstance does not apply. California, the southern most state in the Columbian Blacktails range, has produced more B&C Blacktails than either Oregon or Washington. One would think that the opposite would be true but the record books state the fact clearly. The largest racked Columbian Blacktails are found in the southern portion of their range. Even though California and Oregon regularly produce higher scoring bucks than Washington. The current world record comes from Washington state. Obviously California and Oregon are not the only areas capable of producing huge Blacktails.

[Paulyman]

Wow, that's pretty helpful ruger, thanks

Paul

[FlyingHigh]

Mule Deer are a seperate species from Blacktails. They are very closely related and can interbreed but still classify as different deer. The species tag covers both Mule Deer and BT's.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. :)



Since we are talking science, scientists have determined through DNA that Mulies originally came from Blacktails and Whitetails mating

Cool. Nifty bit of trivia.