Moose mortality stats

[Sirloin]

Mortality Causes
Ninety-seven of the 400 radio-collared cow moose died between February 2012 and 30 April 2018
https://i.imgur.com/W07OJQ8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HVsVTyR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/OjAxHgn.jpg

[westcoaster]

This just gets me pissed off on so many different levels....

[HarryToolips]

Well at least the study has proved what we already know: wolves and First Nation harvest are the primary causes of our moose declines..solutions: convince the government that we need to cull wolves in BC, and we need to educate First Nations that they are supposed to be stewards of the land (I know the majority of them are good)...thanks for posting Sirloin..

[338win mag]

Sounds about right.

[horshur]

Predation contributes to the apparent starvation as well...documented in the national parks where the moose are avoiding productive ranges and choosing to subsist on marginal range...probably contribute to the health numbers as well..stress being major driver of health issues...ecology of fear. Ungulate numbers will only be utilizing 10% of available range do to predation...

[joshbazz]

Very interesting, what is the source of this study? Would be good to communicate this information to the anti-hunters and predator hunt opposers...

[mpotzold]

Very interesting, what is the source of this study? Would be good to communicate this information to the anti-hunters and predator hunt opposers...

http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/eirs/finishDownloadDocument.do?subdocumentId=10761

[mpotzold]

Study-"Since this project was initiated in 2012, we fitted GPSradiocollarsona total of 460 individual Moose:400 cows and 60 8-month old calves."

Still confident that bears are the biggest culprits in the decline. Given a chance they can practically decimate the most vulnerable-the very young especially ones up to 2 months.

[Sirloin]

Study-"Since this project was initiated in 2012, we fitted GPSradiocollarsona total of 460 individual Moose:400 cows and 60 8-month old calves."

Still confident that bears are the biggest culprits in the decline. Given a chance they can practically decimate the most vulnerable-the very young especially ones up to 2 months.




It appears during this study, the main culprit for collared calve mortality was by far wolves.

"We identified the probable proximate cause of death for the 97 cow mortalities as 52 predation (42 Wolf,4 Cougar, 6 bear), 16 hunting (1 licensed, 15 unlicensed), 19 health-related (9 apparent starvation, 2 failed
predation attempt, 1 chronic bacterial infection, 1 peritonitis, 1 prolapsed uterus, 5 unknown healthrelated), 3 natural accident, and 7 unknown. There were 21 calf mortalities which all occurred between 11
March and 23 May. Proximate probable cause of mortality of calves was 11 predation (9 Wolf, 1 Cougar,
1 Bear), 8 health-related (4 apparent starvation, 2 apparent starvation/tick, 1 failed predation attempt, 1
gastro-intestinal infection) and 1 vehicle collision. We recorded a significantly higher proportion of
health-related (particularly apparent starvation) mortalities (i.e., 45%) in 2016/17 than in 2017/18."

[Sirloin]

"As of 1 May 2018, evaluating survival of cow and calf Moose is being led by FLNRORD staff and isplanned to continue for another five years (April 2018–2023) to gain a more comprehensiveunderstanding of the factors affecting Moose population change, and to inform important managementdecisions and research gaps."

Maybe sometime after 2023 we can hope for something to be done about the wolves?

[ElectricDyck]

I noticed the "Respect the Cow Moose" signs on the logging roads and thought what a stupid sign, moose don't care about your respect just that you don't kill them...what is that supposed to mean and then my wife suggested it was for the Indians and it all made sense...sleds and unlicensed hunting

[Fella]

Starvation...meaning there’s not enough browse. So what is causing that? Maybe the spraying of glysophate?

[Travisimo]

I'm really curious to read that study, but the link doesn't work for me. How did you find it? What's the title of the study?

[Sirloin]

STUDY (http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/eirs/viewDocumentDetail.do?fromStatic=true&repository=BDP&documentId=12800) DETERMINING FACTORS AFFECTING MOOSE POPULATIONCHANGE IN BRITISH COLUMBIA:TESTING THE LANDSCAPE CHANGE HYPOTHESIS

[Travisimo]

STUDY (http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/eirs/viewDocumentDetail.do?fromStatic=true&repository=BDP&documentId=12800) DETERMINING FACTORS AFFECTING MOOSE POPULATIONCHANGE IN BRITISH COLUMBIA:TESTING THE LANDSCAPE CHANGE HYPOTHESIS

Thanks Sirloin, I'm going to have a good read tonight.

[Ride Red]

Numbers don’t lie.

[joshbazz]

STUDY (http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/eirs/viewDocumentDetail.do?fromStatic=true&repository=BDP&documentId=12800) DETERMINING FACTORS AFFECTING MOOSE POPULATIONCHANGE IN BRITISH COLUMBIA:TESTING THE LANDSCAPE CHANGE HYPOTHESIS
Thank you, previous link didn’t work for me either. Cheers!

[bearvalley]

With greater than 85% cow survival the dead cows aren’t what’s bringing on the decline....even if the picture of the cow moose head with the nose removed leads some to point fingers that unlicensed hunters and wolves are the declining factors.

Some points from the study;
-an abnormally high percentage of the cows are old
-The bull/cow ratio must be OK because the numbers of bred cows at the time of collaring was fine.
-over half the cows were malnourished when observed after death
-the number of 8 month old calves collared is much lower than the pregnant cow rate

So, in my opinion either one of two things is going on;
-the cow moose are in to poor of condition to birth and raise a viable calf or bears are having a feast

[wideopenthrottle]

chasing them around and off prime range all winter to kill em would also add to calf mortality/poor cow health...and it would seem to be recent enough that all the old cows havent died off but sustained for long enough to move the ageclass of cows older

[ElectricDyck]

I didn't read the report just looked at the pie chart and I see 97 out of 400 dieing, thats a 75% survival rate? What did I miss?

[Downtown]

The biggest problem I can see is convincing Weaver (Claiming to be a Scientist) the leader of the Greens, that Science based management is the best way to conduct Wildlife Management. Wildlife Management as preached by the Green-Church (best example the cancelation of the Grizzly hunt) is nothing but pandering to the Ignorant.


Cheers

[Sirloin]

With greater than 85% cow survival the dead cows aren’t what’s bringing on the decline....even if the picture of the cow moose head with the nose removed leads some to point fingers that unlicensed hunters and wolves are the declining factors.

Some points from the study;
-an abnormally high percentage of the cows are old
-The bull/cow ratio must be OK because the numbers of bred cows at the time of collaring was fine.
-over half the cows were malnourished when observed after death
-the number of 8 month old calves collared is much lower than the pregnant cow rate

So, in my opinion either one of two things is going on;
-the cow moose are in to poor of condition to birth and raise a viable calf or bears are having a feast

how do you come to the conclusion its bears having a feast? coming in with the least amount of collared moose kills, cow and calf? Your opinion reads like someone wishing to solve the declining moose population by selling grizzly bear and black bear hunts, while continuing to sell big bull moose hunts. Are you a guide outfitter by any chance?
(there were a handful of areas studied with bulls coming in well under the target bull/cow ratio too)

So far the study on calves shows by far the biggest mortality in calves was, again caused by wolves. Like cows, double, and triple, quadruple and ten fold the rates of any other cause of mortality and other predators.
I'm sure being chased around by multiple packs of wolves all winter long will add to the malnutrition as well.

During this study wolves killed collared cow moose

2.6x more than "unlicensed hunting"
7x more than bears
10x more than cougars
4.7x more than starvation

Also 2 of the "health related" collared cow moose deaths were actually from failed predation, you could probably can add those 2 under wolves kills too if you are a betting man.

Of the 21 collared calf mortalities, wolves were responsible for:

9x more than bear
9x more than cougar
2.3x more than starvation

Keep doing these studies, and they will, they are.... and they will again come out with the same conclusions, wolves killing the most moose and likely chasing them around in circles all year off the prime feeding sites.

[bearvalley]

how do you come to the conclusion its bears having a feast? coming in with the least amount of collared moose kills, cow and calf? Your opinion reads like someone wishing to solve the declining moose population by selling grizzly bear and black bear hunts, while continuing to sell big bull moose hunts. Are you a guide outfitter by any chance?
(there were a handful of areas studied with bulls coming in well under the target bull/cow ratio too)

So far the study on calves shows by far the biggest mortality in calves was, again caused by wolves. Like cows, double, and triple, quadruple and ten fold the rates of any other cause of mortality and other predators.
I'm sure being chased around by multiple packs of wolves all winter long will add to the malnutrition as well.

During this study wolves killed collared cow moose

2.6x more than "unlicensed hunting"
7x more than bears
10x more than cougars
4.7x more than starvation

Also 2 of the "health related" collared cow moose deaths were actually from failed predation, you could probably can add those 2 under wolves kills too if you are a betting man.

Of the 21 collared calf mortalities, wolves were responsible for:

9x more than bear
9x more than cougar
2.3x more than starvation

Keep doing these studies, and they will, they are.... and they will again come out with the same conclusions, wolves killing the most moose and likely chasing them around in circles all year off the prime feeding sites.

Sirloin, for a starter....wolves kill moose......bulls, cows and calves.
Heres a quote from the study, “Our results from monitoring the survival rates of 400 cow Moose over the course of five years are sufficient to evaluate this hypothesis. Cow survival rates were greater than 85%, which is within the range reported from stable Moose populations, ie>85% (Bangs eTowards al. 1989; Ballard et al. 1991; Bertram and Vivion 2002).
These rates were higher than survival rates estimated for cow Moose from the Northwest Territories (85%, Stenhouse et al. 1995) and northern Alberta (75-77%, Hauge and Keith 1981). The Bonaparte, Big Creek and John Prince study areas had cow survival above 85% in all years whereas Entiako was below 85% in three of five years, and Prince George South was below 85% in two of five years (Figure 15).
Therefor survival rates over these five years were not indicative of Moose population declines and were inconsistent with the cow survival rate component of the landscape change hypothesis”.

The study goes on to say, “Nearly half(n=29) of all cow Moose that died and had samples suitable for analysis were in a state of poor condition or malnutrition, and these mortalities mainly occurred between April and June”.

So this is where it needs questioned are the surviving cow Moose in good enough body condition to support a viable calf.
To me it looks like the cow Moose population is top heavy to old cows, that means either not enough calves are making it fro birth until 8 months of age when the calves were collared or these 8 month old calves are not reaching reproductive maturity.
I’ve always believed that wolves are a major contributor to ungulate declines but bears are a huge factor in stopping an ungulate increase.
Bears don’t wait for a calf to be 8 months old, as the age of the studied calves was...bears eat calves at birth and shortly after.
A recent Alaska study documented bears that killed on the average in excess of 34 moose or caribou calves each.

And if it matters...yeah I’m a guide outfitter.
Who and what are you?

[Bugle M In]

Okay, before the arrows start flying back and forth etc.
I can see what bearvalley is saying from a brief glance of the study (pages 20-21).
They are talking about survival rates of calves "after 8 months old".

So, that leaves the question "how many calves dropped in the spring"?
(which is different from cow to calf ratios when they actually doing fly over counting thru winter time normally)

Would also have to see if they make any mention of "pregnancy %/rate" of cows?

But yes, if they are only starting the study of calves at 8 months old, a lot of them could have been lost to bear predation in the spring, thus not accounted for in that "pie chart".

[boxhitch]

I didn't read the report just looked at the pie chart and I see 97 out of 400 dieing, thats a 75% survival rate? What did I miss?Thats the trouble with a snap shot pic showing dead-side data only.
3 out of 4 survived? that sounds like a good story, not likely to stir a storm

[horshur]

There has been poor recruitment for years so of course the cows are old..bulls too. Predation always focuses on the young. You end up with a top heavy aged population that become less and less productive over time..and then collapse.

[Sirloin]

Sirloin, for a starter....wolves kill moose......bulls, cows and calves.
Heres a quote from the study, “Our results from monitoring the survival rates of 400 cow Moose over the course of five years are sufficient to evaluate this hypothesis. Cow survival rates were greater than 85%, which is within the range reported from stable Moose populations, ie>85% (Bangs eTowards al. 1989; Ballard et al. 1991; Bertram and Vivion 2002).
These rates were higher than survival rates estimated for cow Moose from the Northwest Territories (85%, Stenhouse et al. 1995) and northern Alberta (75-77%, Hauge and Keith 1981). The Bonaparte, Big Creek and John Prince study areas had cow survival above 85% in all years whereas Entiako was below 85% in three of five years, and Prince George South was below 85% in two of five years (Figure 15).
Therefor survival rates over these five years were not indicative of Moose population declines and were inconsistent with the cow survival rate component of the landscape change hypothesis”.

The study goes on to say, “Nearly half(n=29) of all cow Moose that died and had samples suitable for analysis were in a state of poor condition or malnutrition, and these mortalities mainly occurred between April and June”.

So this is where it needs questioned are the surviving cow Moose in good enough body condition to support a viable calf.
To me it looks like the cow Moose population is top heavy to old cows, that means either not enough calves are making it fro birth until 8 months of age when the calves were collared or these 8 month old calves are not reaching reproductive maturity.
I’ve always believed that wolves are a major contributor to ungulate declines but bears are a huge factor in stopping an ungulate increase.
Bears don’t wait for a calf to be 8 months old, as the age of the studied calves was...bears eat calves at birth and shortly after.
A recent Alaska study documented bears that killed on the average in excess of 34 moose or caribou calves each.

And if it matters...yeah I’m a guide outfitter.
Who and what are you?


I see what you mean now. All points make a lot of sense. I glazed over the calves were only collared after 8 months.

I'm not saying bears aren't killing younger calves at higher rates, but a very relevant piece of info from that Yukon study.
"Wolves preyed on moose calves more often than on otherage-classes." (https://www.wrrb.ca/sites/default/files/Hayes_2000_moose_wolves.pdf)
"Wolves inour study killed proportionally more calf, yearling, and oldmoose and fewer prime-age animals. This age pattern wassimilar to other Alaska and Yukon studies"
"We found a strong negative relation between annualwolf density and thepercentage of moose calves alive in March. We found a similar relation for cariboucalves"


https://i.imgur.com/EFpRasJ.jpg


If they prefer to prey on calves, and we know how many adult and 8+ month old calves they are killing, how effective do you think they are on the calves at birth and shortly after as well?

We didn't quite have the same level of bear population explosion like the one we have been seeing in wolves throughout this province. That and their ability to cover A LOT of ground fast and efficient working in packs on logging roads and transmission lines they must be cleaning up the moose calves.

[mpotzold]

With greater than 85% cow survival the dead cows aren’t what’s bringing on the decline....even if the picture of the cow moose head with the nose removed leads some to point fingers that unlicensed hunters and wolves are the declining factors.

Some points from the study;
-an abnormally high percentage of the cows are old
-The bull/cow ratio must be OK because the numbers of bred cows at the time of collaring was fine.
-over half the cows were malnourished when observed after death
-the number of 8 month old calves collared is much lower than the pregnant cow rate

So, in my opinion either one of two things is going on;
-the cow moose are in to poor of condition to birth and raise a viable calf or bears are having a feast

Probably the way it is!
Here's one of the many studies on bear predation when the calves are most vulnerable-birth to 2 months. Let's not forget the bear's sense of smell is 2100x better than ours & the dog's sense is 100x.
So the bear's sense of smell is 20x + better than a wolf.

Posted this before!
Overall, the bears killed an average of 34.4 moose and caribou calves over 45 days.
One killed 44 calves(moose) in 25 days.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/bears-are-bigger-killers-thought-gruesome-video-footage-reveals

[bearvalley]

With greater than 85% cow survival the dead cows aren’t what’s bringing on the decline....even if the picture of the cow moose head with the nose removed leads some to point fingers that unlicensed hunters and wolves are the declining factors.

Some points from the study;
-an abnormally high percentage of the cows are old
-The bull/cow ratio must be OK because the numbers of bred cows at the time of collaring was fine.
-over half the cows were malnourished when observed after death
-the number of 8 month old calves collared is much lower than the pregnant cow rate

So, in my opinion either one of two things is going on;
-the cow moose are in to poor of condition to birth and raise a viable calf or bears are having a feast

Probably the way it is!
Here's one of the many studies on bear predation when the calves are most vulnerable-birth to 2 months. Let's not forget the bear's sense of smell is 2100x better than ours & the dog's sense is 100x.
So the bear's sense of smell is 20x + better than a wolf.

Posted this before!
Overall, the bears killed an average of 34.4 moose and caribou calves over 45 days.
One killed 44 calves(moose) in 25 days.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/bears-are-bigger-killers-thought-gruesome-video-footage-reveals

mpotzold, you don’t have to convince me....I have seen what’s happening to our ungulates.

[Darksith]

Well at least the study has proved what we already know: wolves and First Nation harvest are the primary causes of our moose declines..solutions: convince the government that we need to cull wolves in BC, and we need to educate First Nations that they are supposed to be stewards of the land (I know the majority of them are good)...thanks for posting Sirloin..
Not moose declines, cow moose declines, and unlicensed could also be poachers. 15% unlicensed isn't a number that I would really be concerned about IF the wolf take wasn't so high...I think the big thing we have to look at here is the wolf kills, and not get distracted by what in essence could be a sustainable harvest in all other facets

[Darksith]

how do you come to the conclusion its bears having a feast? coming in with the least amount of collared moose kills, cow and calf? Your opinion reads like someone wishing to solve the declining moose population by selling grizzly bear and black bear hunts, while continuing to sell big bull moose hunts. Are you a guide outfitter by any chance?
(there were a handful of areas studied with bulls coming in well under the target bull/cow ratio too)

So far the study on calves shows by far the biggest mortality in calves was, again caused by wolves. Like cows, double, and triple, quadruple and ten fold the rates of any other cause of mortality and other predators.
I'm sure being chased around by multiple packs of wolves all winter long will add to the malnutrition as well.

During this study wolves killed collared cow moose

2.6x more than "unlicensed hunting"
7x more than bears
10x more than cougars
4.7x more than starvation

Also 2 of the "health related" collared cow moose deaths were actually from failed predation, you could probably can add those 2 under wolves kills too if you are a betting man.

Of the 21 collared calf mortalities, wolves were responsible for:

9x more than bear
9x more than cougar
2.3x more than starvation

Keep doing these studies, and they will, they are.... and they will again come out with the same conclusions, wolves killing the most moose and likely chasing them around in circles all year off the prime feeding sites.

None of these moose are new born calfs, that is when the bears will be extremely effective killers of moose. They will prey on the calves before the calves get old enough to be collared. The low calf survival rates come collaring time shows this. It would be very hard to count new born calf mortalities (calfs 1 month old or less) because you couldn't track those cows and determine when and how they lost their calf.

What I see is what happened with the elk around Yellowstone. Population ages because the wolves prey on the young, then when the old population dies, the entire thing falls off a cliff and the population crashes. Its exactly what happened to the Yellowstone elk...its happening right now on the Bonaparte Plateau. I have hunted there for almost 20 years now, had the moose draw last year and about every 4 years on average between myself and friends. Never have I ever seen so few moose as this year.

[Sirloin]

I'm sure bears are effective at gobbling up calves, as they always have been and i'm all for thinning out the predator populations, including bears. But what changed in the province?
There was no sudden boom in the bear population. The boom in wolf populations definitely coincides with the decline of moose, along with every study showing them to be the most effective killers of moose. Have they tipped the scales?

[WhiteTailAB]

Wow looks like those 2 legged wolves could compete with the 4 legged wolves.

[325]

Studies in Alaska have shown that ~90% of moose calves can be killed by bears

[ElectricDyck]

On a side note: One of the positive/negatives with finding out what percentage of un licensed harvest takes place is now the ministry could use that number for setting regulations for the licenced hunter. Depending on what they were guessing Indians were doing before it could increase or decrease the allowable harvest for licenced hunters.

I heard one comment that if the ministry really knew Indian harvest there would be no resident hunting..

[Bugle M In]

None of these moose are new born calfs, that is when the bears will be extremely effective killers of moose. They will prey on the calves before the calves get old enough to be collared. The low calf survival rates come collaring time shows this. It would be very hard to count new born calf mortalities (calfs 1 month old or less) because you couldn't track those cows and determine when and how they lost their calf.

What I see is what happened with the elk around Yellowstone. Population ages because the wolves prey on the young, then when the old population dies, the entire thing falls off a cliff and the population crashes. Its exactly what happened to the Yellowstone elk...its happening right now on the Bonaparte Plateau. I have hunted there for almost 20 years now, had the moose draw last year and about every 4 years on average between myself and friends. Never have I ever seen so few moose as this year.

hmmmmm….

That bit about what happened in Yellowstone just got me thinking about another one of our specie
in the EK that is in the tanks.
Can't remember the last time I saw calf either??
And I recall a few times local workers talking about cows having calves and than suddenly calf is gone (only 4 to 6 month olds)

I always think of bear during birthing time etc for declines in calves.
But hadn't considered that calves are the "main target" by wolves.
Now I can see how things "suddenly collapse" in a short time.
Mature are being hunted by 2 legged or just getting old and dying.
Meanwhile the "replacements" are being picked off by 4 legged.

Now, why do I think us residents are going to be the ones paying the price?
Rather than dealing with the "culprits" causing the issues.
Definitely at a low point in our Game Management History if you ask me.

[338win mag]

On a side note: One of the positive/negatives with finding out what percentage of un licensed harvest takes place is now the ministry could use that number for setting regulations for the licenced hunter. Depending on what they were guessing Indians were doing before it could increase or decrease the allowable harvest for licenced hunters.

I heard one comment that if the ministry really knew Indian harvest there would be no resident hunting..
Someone's brilliant idea is to make FN co-managers of wildlife in this province, and if you look at region 5 you will see zero leh for moose. We can expect the same bs over the entire province, I dont hold out too much hope FN will allow resident hunters any opportunity so long as numbers stay low. You can be assured they will make sure the numbers stay low so there isn't any opportunity.

[Bigdoggdon]

So why doesn't the Gov't do a study. Go out in the winter and collar pregnant cows. Check in on those cows at 30 day intervals from birthing time to when the calf should be 1yr old. See how many we lost and when. probably see big spikes in mortality from bears around birthing time and wolves during the winter. Gov't probably doesn't want to find that out though.

[bearvalley]

So why doesn't the Gov't do a study. Go out in the winter and collar pregnant cows. Check in on those cows at 30 day intervals from birthing time to when the calf should be 1yr old. See how many we lost and when. probably see big spikes in mortality from bears around birthing time and wolves during the winter. Gov't probably doesn't want to find that out though.

The study being discussed in this thread shows the number of pregnant cows, calves per 100 cows at birth, calves mid June, calves mid winter, calves March 31st and calves left at age 1.
Its a downward spiral the whole way.

[Piperdown]

Just got back from the cabin last week saw more bears than i could count. We have a pregnant cow moose on the property just about ready to calve. So we went out for a walk to take pictures of some deer rubs on the property and the cow moose was on the other side of the drainage and ran in the bush when we arrived. I let out 1 low cow call took the picture of the deer rub and turned around to see a black bear come up behind us in less then 20 seconds coming to the cow call. Well he ate a 300 grain bullet out of the 45/70 at 12 fricking paces:shock: I think maybe we just saved a calf moose :)

[Sirloin]

Just got back from the cabin last week saw more bears than i could count. We have a pregnant cow moose on the property just about ready to calve. So we went out for a walk to take pictures of some deer rubs on the property and the cow moose was on the other side of the drainage and ran in the bush when we arrived. I let out 1 low cow call took the picture of the deer rub and turned around to see a black bear come up behind us in less then 20 seconds coming to the cow call. Well he ate a 300 grain bullet out of the 45/70 at 12 fricking paces:shock: I think maybe we just saved a calf moose :)

Nice one Piperdown!

[hawk-i]

Just got back from the cabin last week saw more bears than i could count. We have a pregnant cow moose on the property just about ready to calve. So we went out for a walk to take pictures of some deer rubs on the property and the cow moose was on the other side of the drainage and ran in the bush when we arrived. I let out 1 low cow call took the picture of the deer rub and turned around to see a black bear come up behind us in less then 20 seconds coming to the cow call. Well he ate a 300 grain bullet out of the 45/70 at 12 fricking paces:shock: I think maybe we just saved a calf moose :)

Thats the best way to feed bears! LOL

[mpotzold]

Just got back from the cabin last week saw more bears than i could count. We have a pregnant cow moose on the property just about ready to calve. So we went out for a walk to take pictures of some deer rubs on the property and the cow moose was on the other side of the drainage and ran in the bush when we arrived. I let out 1 low cow call took the picture of the deer rub and turned around to see a black bear come up behind us in less then 20 seconds coming to the cow call. Well he ate a 300 grain bullet out of the 45/70 at 12 fricking paces:shock: I think maybe we just saved a calf moose :)

Good Work!:smile:

Both Eve & I use the 45/70's(since 2007)-hers is loaded with 300 gr & mine with up to 540 gr. I also use the 375 H&H loaded with 300 gr TBBC
Never used the gun against a bear yet but was ready to fire with the gun pointed more than a few times & once at about 40 ft. or so but the bear retreated.

Just read a Srupp grizz encounter story & he saw 30 bears including 2 grizz.
From my limited experience & talking to many hunters the bear numbers have been increasing & are way up especially the blackies.
Been hunting the 5-03 & surrounding areas for over 50 years. When we started we'd be lucky to see 1 or 2 bears per trip. Lately I saw over a dozen in a few days.

The moose numbers & signs are way down.

Unfortunately we will not touch bear meat so won't be killing any unless it's for protection or they lift that requirement of taking home the bear meat.

[scott h]

Starvation...meaning there’s not enough browse. So what is causing that? Maybe the spraying of glysophate?
Thank you for stating the obvious. There is zero reason for moose to be dieing of starvation in this province other than the wholesale destruction of their main food source, ie. deciduous trees. Continuing to spray aspen yearly and then to pretend to actually care about moose populations is laughable.

[boxhitch]

"There is zero reason for moose to be dieing of starvation in this province, other than the wholesale destruction of their main food source, ie. deciduous trees"'

actually there are more reasons, but you know that.

[Bugle M In]

"There is zero reason for moose to be dieing of starvation in this province, other than the wholesale destruction of their main food source, ie. deciduous trees"'

actually there are more reasons, but you know that.

Well, if Moose do well in Cutblocks (traditionally speaking) than there should be "0" issues with feed for them in this Province.
More Cutblocks than actual stands of trees it seems.

So yes, way more to these issues than feed, except for the "spray" being a big issue.

[scott h]

"There is zero reason for moose to be dieing of starvation in this province, other than the wholesale destruction of their main food source, ie. deciduous trees"'

actually there are more reasons, but you know that.
Actually with the amount of logging that occurs every year in BC added to the acreage burned there is massive potential for moose browse. Unfortunately when much of that acreage is just starting to produce good levels of browse, it is then sprayed with herbicides to knock it back down to essentially barren ground. The effects last for years until the conifers take over completely. It seems kinda crazy that a province the size of BC can't produce enough feed and that moose starvation is even an issue.

[IronNoggin]

... Well he ate a 300 grain bullet out of the 45/70 at 12 fricking paces:shock: I think maybe we just saved a calf moose :)

Awesome Sauce!! https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Pozitive.gif

Nice Work Buddy!!!

Cheers!
Nog

[mpotzold]

Good Work!:smile:

Both Eve & I use the 45/70's(since 2007)-hers is loaded with 300 gr & mine with up to 540 gr. I also use the 375 H&H loaded with 300 gr TBBC
Never used the gun against a bear yet but was ready to fire with the gun pointed more than a few times & once at about 40 ft. or so but the bear retreated.

Just read a Srupp grizz encounter story & he saw 30 bears including 2 grizz.
From my limited experience & talking to many hunters the bear numbers have been increasing & are way up especially the blackies.
Been hunting the 5-03 & surrounding areas for over 50 years. When we started we'd be lucky to see 1 or 2 bears per trip. Lately I saw over a dozen in a few days.

The moose numbers & signs are way down.

Unfortunately we will not touch bear meat so won't be killing any unless it's for protection or they lift that requirement of taking home the bear meat.


Some more proof!

Just released!
“A total of 3,240 calls about black and grizzly bears were reported to the province last month — 1,183 more than the same period last year, according to data from the B.C. Conservation Officer Service.
By comparison, there were about 4,500 calls in total in all of 2018.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/more-bear-reports-in-b-c-in-may-than-in-last-9-years-1.5172618?cmp=rss

[horse280]

would be nice to have some RAILWAY stats those are numbers that will put a weird light on this study wolves and black bears are #1 but they also eat the ones beside the tracks little piggies Horsee

[DeepJeep]

I wonder how many collars were destroyed by "unlicensed" hunters upon funding it that the animal was collared

[Bugle M In]

I wonder how many collars were destroyed by "unlicensed" hunters upon funding it that the animal was collared

Either way, the researches would speculate that the collars were destroyed thru human causes.
And any other way of a collared moose dying they would still find the collar and maybe that answer to whether it was pred or human death.
Unless the transmitter on the collar just "crapped out".

But, would be a good stat if it isn't in there already.

[LBM]

Some more proof!

Just released!
“A total of 3,240 calls about black and grizzly bears were reported to the province last month — 1,183 more than the same period last year, according to data from the B.C. Conservation Officer Service.
By comparison, there were about 4,500 calls in total in all of 2018.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/more-bear-reports-in-b-c-in-may-than-in-last-9-years-1.5172618?cmp=rss

More call ins does not mean the population is up everybody in the neighbour hood could be calling in about the same bear.
On a side note since the thread is about mortality another elk dead in the EK all 4 quarters taken don't think you can blame that one on wolves.

[boxhitch]

Actually with the amount of logging that occurs every year in BC added to the acreage burned there is massive potential for moose browse. Unfortunately when much of that acreage is just starting to produce good levels of browse, it is then sprayed with herbicides to knock it back down to essentially barren ground. The effects last for years until the conifers take over completely. It seems kinda crazy that a province the size of BC can't produce enough feed and that moose starvation is even an issue.Have you seen the stats for what the actual usage of sprays is? total acreage? per cent of blocks sprayed vs per cent left alone? What regions even use spray anymore? Does the spray effect deciduous for more than one growth season? are blocks sprayed with followup coverage?
The facts show a sensible picture

[Bugle M In]

Someone explain to me how the forestry companies got away with spraying that crap on that underbrush etc.
Yet, never got approved to spray to kill for beetle (granted, it would have affected everyone every where).
Just saying, and sort of wondering.
Would have been much more "lucrative" in the end, imo.

[Timbow]

Someone explain to me how the forestry companies got away with spraying that crap on that underbrush etc.
Yet, never got approved to spray to kill for beetle (granted, it would have affected everyone every where).
Just saying, and sort of wondering.
Would have been much more "lucrative" in the end, imo.

can’t spray for beetle. You can spray for defoliators such as the spruce budworm. Only effective way to deal with bark beetle is use of pheromones before the flight, or removed the infested tree before they fly..You will see log yards using beetle bait traps.

[Bugle M In]

can’t spray for beetle. You can spray for defoliators such as the spruce budworm. Only effective way to deal with bark beetle is use of pheromones before the flight, or removed the infested tree before they fly..You will see log yards using beetle bait traps.

Okay, thanks for the info.
Did the Forestry Sector use "Pheromones" at all in a spraying attempt to out the beetles at bay.
Must be a way to have "baited them somehow"? and then burn them just like using a vacuum cleaner to suck up all the yellow jackets, toss filter in
metal can, add gas, and boom, no more wasps!:-P

[Timbow]

Before the MPB outbreak they would bait them and followed up with a buck and burn program in the winter on small inaccessible areas.

Believe it it or not but the bark beetle has evolved over time and is a master of survival. A quick note, the woodpecker is not density depended meaning it’s number doesn’t fluctuate with the beetle numbers unlike the rabbit and lynx.

[barry1974w]

Have you seen the stats for what the actual usage of sprays is? total acreage? per cent of blocks sprayed vs per cent left alone? What regions even use spray anymore? Does the spray effect deciduous for more than one growth season? are blocks sprayed with followup coverage?
The facts show a sensible picture

top of my head is about .02 percent of forested lands, but at the moment I can’t even remember when or where I read that so definitely don’t quote me on it

[Capdan]

AND it’s over a 6 year period... 75% survival rate for 6 years is pretty awesome, you’d think...


I didn't read the report just looked at the pie chart and I see 97 out of 400 dieing, thats a 75% survival rate? What did I miss?

[Bigdoggdon]

The survivability of mature cows has always been pretty good. The problem is calf recruitment. The majority of calves are not surviving their first year.

[Elkaholic]

The survivability of mature cows has always been pretty good. The problem is calf recruitment. The majority of calves are not surviving their first year.

Those newborns are a bears favorite food. And they do clean up in the spring on calves and fawns. They did some digging into this in Alaska and got their eyes opened.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/bears-are-bigger-killers-thought-gruesome-video-footage-reveals

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm%3Fadfg%3Dwildlifenews.view_article%26art icles_id%3D539

So when we have calf recruitment issues I would think this would be the #1 culprit.

[two-feet]

Those newborns are a bears favorite food. And they do clean up in the spring on calves and fawns. They did some digging into this in Alaska and got their eyes opened.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/bears-are-bigger-killers-thought-gruesome-video-footage-reveals

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm%3Fadfg%3Dwildlifenews.view_article%26art icles_id%3D539

So when we have calf recruitment issues I would think this would be the #1 culprit.

I agree it is a good theory that bears are taking calves but this in not Alaska, could be different here for a number of different reasons. I would subscribe to the theory more myself but have seen thousands of spring bear scats and rarely see hair or bone, just grass.

[BStrachan]

I'm shocked to see that the highest mortality rate is by unlicensed hunters and the lowest was by licensed hunters.
Pretty upsetting to say the least.

[horshur]

The highest mortality rate is wolves

[scott h]

I'm shocked to see that the highest mortality rate is by unlicensed hunters and the lowest was by licensed hunters.
Pretty upsetting to say the least.

Pretty insane that there 1% taken by licensed hunters and 9% that starve to death !!!!!! Moose starving to death in a province like BC is insane !!!!!!

[wideopenthrottle]

Pretty insane that there 1% taken by licensed hunters and 9% that starve to death !!!!!! Moose starving to death in a province like BC is insane !!!!!!
that is what a bad winter running from preds will do