Question on salmon at sea vs in the rive

[ratherbefishin]

By the time a salmon has survived four or five years at sea,it has run the gauntlet of many predators,escaped nets and troll fishermen and finally the survivors are in the river On their final spawning run.What I would like to know is ,what percentage of smolts entering salt water have survived to spawn?This seems to be important because catching a salmon in the river ready to spawn has to be worth far more than catching one at sea in terms of escapment.My hypothesis is that the one spawner is worth several times that of a salmon still running the gauntlet at sea.Any idea what the number might be?( my theory is you can’t equate it in terms of one for one ,or that saying a sport caught salmon at sea equals a spawner in the river that has already survived to get there.

[Ride Red]

The hatcheries used 3-4% as numbers. Eg: 2500 eggs on a redd x 3-4% = 75-100 smolts. 75 - 100 smolts x 3-4% = up to 4 adults returning to spawn. Disclaimer- If I remember correctly.

[Danny_29]

Thats pretty close. It's shockingly low. Look up the adams river they've got a good little diagram that shows the survival rate throughout.

[Danny_29]

https://www.salmonsociety.com/journey

[Boner]

On their final spawning run.What I would like to know is ,what percentage of smolts entering salt water have survived to spawn?This seems to be important because catching a salmon in the river ready to spawn has to be worth far more than catching one at sea in terms of escapment.

Very slippery slope sir. It sounds like an argument for justifying the commercial fishery against the freshwater sport fishery.

[Wild one]

dead salmon are dead salmon that won’t spawn does not matter if they are from fresh or saltwater

[ratherbefishin]

True, a dead salmon is a dead salmon, but I”m wondering if the whole river fishery should be completely shut down( FN included) because the salmon that have survived are spawners and maybe should be left completely unmolested ( this applies to shooting seals and sea lions at the river mouth).i recognise FN have a traditional right to fish,but perhaps their sustenance quota might be better coming from gill netting or seining rather than nets in the river ) don’t know, but my feeling is we have to have all options on the table if we want to ensure the survival of Chinook.too bad we have to wait for the 11th hour but maybe that’s what it will take to get all stakeholders at the table with one common goal, restore the salmon to historical levels

[ratherbefishin]

[QUOTE=ratherbefishin;2087841]True, a dead salmon is a dead salmon, but I”m wondering if the whole river fishery should be completely shut down( FN included) because the salmon that have survived are spawners and maybe should be left completely unmolested ( this applies to shooting seals and sea lions at the river mouth).i recognise FN have a traditional right to fish,but perhaps their sustenance quota might be better coming from gill netting or seining rather than nets in the river ) don’t know, but my feeling is we have to have all options on the table if we want to ensure the survival of Chinook.too bad we have to wait for the 11th hour but maybe that’s what it will take to get all stakeholders at the table

[Wild one]

Your over thinking it really it makes no difference at what period in the salmons life cycle they are caught unless you’re taking fish after they have spawned.

Common fish managment is to protect fish till they spawn at least once or protect big spawners or slot limits which do both. Unfortunately none of these tools are effective with salmon because like we all know they die after spawning once. So the only option you are left with is trying to stick within a quota.

Problem is over harvesting of overall salmon numbers. If it’s done in freshwater or salt or FN or sport or commercial or even predators it simply breaks down to too many fish being taken out of the system. Only way to solve that is lower harvest in all areas which is good short term

Only long term solution make more salmon as well hatcheries, stream rehabilitations, and overall improving conditions for salmon to thrive

Shifting where, when, or who is harvesting salmon won’t change a thing. Sadly the user groups will bicker about how to increase/protect their privileges by taking from another user group and not focus on solving the big issues just like they have since the beginning

Personally I pretty much stopped salmon fishing because I could see how they were declining. I have also heard every finger pointing argument well guys try to bonk as many salmon as they can for the year. Unfortunately it was rare to meet others who chose to limit them selves instead of try to use every salmon opening they could well complaining about them declining

I get you are looking for ways not to loose out on something you enjoy but maybe it’s time to focus more on improving salmon stalks and not about salmon fishing

[ratherbefishin]

i Am in total agreement with getting more fish in the system, but it seems we are facing an uphill battle to get the federal government on side,volunteers are doing what they can .I looked at my last years salt water licence and I only had 7 Chinook marked in( we picked up a few coho and about 4 sockeye )and that’s fishing with a high liner guides for about 12 charters ( who has since sold his boat and moved away after 20 years ) This years winter spring fishery was the worst I’ve ever seen

[steel_ram]

At least we know where a salmon in a river is going. A fish out in the ocean could be from a huge run, or it might be the one of the last of some endangered run.

River fishing should be done selectively through use of weirs and traps, as it was done traditionally by the natives, not buy gill nets.

[Ride Red]

The non-selective Fraser river net fishery has been detrimental to all stocks, especially the smaller runs that can’t sustain too much pressure. Many small streams that were fish producers haven’t had any returns in years.

[ratherbefishin]

hopefuly this crisis will result in a genuine solution based on sustainability,not politics or political correctness.we need action,not more ‘studies’ .Volunteers have been doing what they can,inspite of ,not with government

[goatdancer]

hopefuly this crisis will result in a genuine solution based on sustainability,not politics or political correctness.we need action,not more ‘studies’ .Volunteers have been doing what they can,inspite of ,not with government

DFO has done SFA for a long time. All this talk about how the various levels of government are going to fix the problem are just that - talk. They don't have a clue or the willpower to do what is necessary. Just more BS.

[ratherbefishin]

Politicians will tell you whatever you want to hear,especially in an election year.The eastern cod record speaks for itself,they’ll ‘study’ it until the last fish is gone

[Keta1969]

Shifting where, when, or who is harvesting salmon won’t change a thing. Sadly the user groups will bicker about how to increase/protect their privileges by taking from another user group and not focus on solving the big issues just like they have since the beginning*

This is so true been saying it for years. Time to quit bickering and worrying about my share. Don't hold out much hope though.

[ratherbefishin]

Everybody can bicker right down to the last salmon and then there will be nothing to bicker about ,thats the thing people need to see.How many stakeholders in the East coast cod fishery are bickering about their rights or share?

[steel_ram]

I'm sure wild salmon in realty are a real nuisance to "big money". I have no doubt Ottawa's job would be much easier if all salmon were farmed, and habitat degradation wasn't an issue. Heck they could just dump the oil and the logs in the river and scoop them up in Vancouver or Prince Rupert.

[Wild one]

I'm sure wild salmon in realty are a real nuisance to "big money". I have no doubt Ottawa's job would be much easier if all salmon were farmed, and habitat degradation wasn't an issue. Heck they could just dump the oil and the logs in the river and scoop them up in Vancouver or Prince Rupert.

You are giving govt too much credit the answer is more likely arrogance, stupidity, and bureaucracy is what is actually why DFO is failing

too many different people with different agendas have been in power in power in the long process involved in the destruction of salmon stocks to be running that long term game

[ratherbefishin]

That farther you get away the less accountability you have . The only chance we have is to have local controll