Draconian Fisheries Closures

[IronNoggin]

Read it and weep:

http://seawestnews.com/sweeping-closures-in-british-columbia-for-2019-fishing-season/

https://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/federal-government-announces-tough-restrictions-on-chinook-fishing-1.23793196

https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?attachments/upload_2019-4-16_14-44-35-png.45035/

[walks with deer]

well thats just fine as long as we pull the nets out...

[RyoTHC]

Read it and weep:

http://seawestnews.com/sweeping-closures-in-british-columbia-for-2019-fishing-season/

https://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/federal-government-announces-tough-restrictions-on-chinook-fishing-1.23793196

https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?attachments/upload_2019-4-16_14-44-35-png.45035/

Just waiting to sell my house in BC and run for Manitoba ... This province is a dumpster fire my God.

[Seth]

No grizzly hunting, no moose in region 5, no chinook fishing. The list will get longer... This province is a pretty sad f*****g place to live if you enjoy hunting and fishing.

[tomcat]

If our governments would put some controls on the ever increasing seal and sea lion populations that would be a major step in preserving and improving salmon and steelhead stocks.

[scott h]

No grizzly hunting, no moose in region 5, no chinook fishing. The list will get longer... This province is a pretty sad f*****g place to live if you enjoy hunting and fishing. I have to assume no stipulations for the commercial fleets?

It looks like they are holding back the troll fleet from hammering them until Aug 20. That should help things quite a bit.

[pnbrock]

what is limited ceremonial fishing when not monitored ?

[Ohwildwon]

How much do you want to bet,

that you will be able to buy from the natives before July 15? :sad:

[RE1960]

Yup a year away from retirement guess I should renew my library card , won't be able to do anything else

[Onesock]

Nothing said about sea lions or seals. Nothing said about commercial herring fishing in the spring. These guys are a joke!!

[RyoTHC]

Yup a year away from retirement guess I should renew my library card , won't be able to do anything else

Lots of other provinces with promise. Just avoid onterrible and BC, well pretty much anything easy of Manitoba :D

[Piperdown]

FN's are supposed to not fish until July 15th, buddy was watching a gill net up from derby reach this past week, as for the commies they have been cut back so much they also are a non issue, Costa Rica here i come

[ratherbefishin]

Slap in the face to the Sooke recreational fishermen who have been releasing Chinook smolts for the last couple of years,while the DFO ‘studied’ it

[Spy]

Oh well now we can spend our time on the water pulling unwelcome nets from our rivers & oceans. I’m going to become a real water cowboy.

[Spy]

Slap in the face to the Sooke recreational fishermen who have been releasing Chinook smolts for the last couple of years,while the DFO ‘studied’ it
Time for a couple law suites ;-) I’m all for a closure but it better mean EVERYONE!

[IronNoggin]

It looks like they are holding back the troll fleet from hammering them until Aug 20. That should help things quite a bit.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/images/smilies/snapoutofit.gif

The troll fleets have taken around 12 % of what the recreational sector does annually for springs for a considerably long time (over a decade) now. Take a long hard look in the mirror if you still need to apply a label. And yeah, I can and will back that with science & numbers.


what is limited ceremonial fishing when not monitored ?

It means damn the torpedoes and full on fishing for one sector and one sector only. Reality.

Combined with the noted announcements today, was another that slid largely unnoticed. The creation of a new branch of DFO. Titled "Reconciliation and Partnerships (R&P) Branch" complete with an RDG and support staff. You can likely guess where that is headed, but if in doubt, pm me & I will send you the background letter from DFO.

Ticked beyond belief...
Nog

[scoutlt1]

When the hell will we learn that the DFO is the most pathetic, useless, destructive, and mismanaged government department of all time.

For f**k's sakes.....have we learned nothing from the Atlantic cod fishery from the early 1990's????

The blame for the state of the Pacific salmon rests solely on the DFO and their puppet masters. Period.

Absolutely disgraceful!!!!

[scott h]

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/images/smilies/snapoutofit.gif

The troll fleets have taken around 12 % of what the recreational sector does annually for springs for a considerably long time (over a decade) now. Take a long hard look in the mirror if you still need to apply a label. And yeah, I can and will back that with science & numbers.



It means damn the torpedoes and full on fishing for one sector and one sector only. Reality.

Combined with the noted announcements today, was another that slid largely unnoticed. The creation of a new branch of DFO. Titled "Reconciliation and Partnerships (R&P) Branch" complete with an RDG and support staff. You can likely guess where that is headed, but if in doubt, pm me & I will send you the background letter from DFO.

Ticked beyond belief...
Nog

How many licence's take that 12%. How about all the other commercial sectors? How many fish ends up as floaters when caught as by catch? No sympathy for the commercial sector here. They should have been cut back further years ago and the stocks wouldn't be in the shape they are today. They never change until they are forced to......all for the almighty dollar.

[Piperdown]

So watched CTV news Vancouver, not one word, now if a whale had died today, well it would have been a full on frenzy. Misty Macduffee you can s*ck my dick if you weren't so ugly!

[weatherby_man]

Unfriggenbelievable!!!,,,,"Reconciliation and Partnerships (R&P) Branch",,,WTF??? It would be almost comical if it wasnt so tragic.

[VLD43]

How many licence's take that 12%. How about all the other commercial sectors? How many fish ends up as floaters when caught as by catch? No sympathy for the commercial sector here. They should have been cut back further years ago and the stocks wouldn't be in the shape they are today. They never change until they are forced to......all for the almighty dollar.

If your going to throw the commercial guys under the bus, you might also want to consider past provincial governments who have allowed logging companies to totally destroy streams, spawning beds and habitat. I think all users of the fishing resource can take equal blame for it's present state. You cannot take, take, take, and never give back. This is a wake up call for everyone. Stop taking these precise resources for granted. They are all finite.

[IronNoggin]

How many licence's take that 12%. How about all the other commercial sectors? How many fish ends up as floaters when caught as by catch? No sympathy for the commercial sector here. They should have been cut back further years ago and the stocks wouldn't be in the shape they are today. They never change until they are forced to......all for the almighty dollar.

Complete ignorant, uninformed bullshit. :-(
Why did I not expect anything less...

Nog

[willyqbc]

not being particularly well informed on B.C.'s commercial fishing....i of course started looking around the magic interweb.....from the DFO website...


Commercial

Commercial fishing for salmon began shortly after the arrival of Europeans on the West Coast and has continued into the present. Commercial openings can occur anywhere along the coast depending on local run timing (May-October), distribution and stock strength. Salmon management is informed by a number of policies and programs in place, including the New Direction series instituted in 1998.
Commercial salmon licences are issued for three gear types: seine, gillnet and troll. Trollers employ hooks and lines which are suspended from large poles extending from the fishing vessel. Altering the type and arrangement of lures used on lines allows various species to be targeted. Trollers catch approximately 25 per cent of the commercial harvest. Seine nets are set from fishing boats with the assistance of a small skiff. Nets are set in a circle around aggregations of fish. The bottom edges of the net are then drawn together into a “purse” to prevent escape of the fish. Seiners take approximately 50 per cent of the commercial catch. Salmon gill nets are rectangular nets that hang in the water and are set from either the stern or bow of the vessel. Fish swim headfirst into the net, entangling their gills in the mesh. Altering mesh size and the way in which nets are suspended in the water allows nets to target selectively on certain species and sizes of fish. Gill netters generally fish near coastal rivers and inlets, taking about 25 per cent of the commercial catch. Licence conditions and commercial fishing plans lay out allowable gear characteristics such as hook styles, mesh size, net dimensions and the methods by which gear may be used.
More links of interest regarding commercial salmon fishing may be found at the top of this page.
For more information about commercial fishing for different species in the Pacific Region, please visit the Fisheries (https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/index-eng.html) page.

Soooo......am I understanding correctly that 75% of the commercial sector is unaffected while the other 25% is taking the brunt of this? Why would that be? If they were going to reduce commercial catch, why isnt it spread across trollers, seiners, and gillnetters....a little pain for all? Am I missing something here?

P.S. Deep Breath Nog!....play nice!

[russm]

FN's are supposed to not fish until July 15th, buddy was watching a gill net up from derby reach this past week, as for the commies they have been cut back so much they also are a non issue, Costa Rica here i come

I saw that boat at derby too last Saturday, didn’t think there’d be anything in the river to net right now :s

[scott h]

Complete ignorant, uninformed bullshit. :-(
Why did I not expect anything less...

Nog
So the recreational fishermen gets maybe 10% vs the commercial guys 90% share. How many commercial licences? A couple thousand? Seems like a big piece of the pie for a lucky few.......

[Spy]

I saw that boat at derby too last Saturday, didn’t think there’d be anything in the river to net right now :s
Oh they are the biggest springs are making their way up the river now. It’s total bullshit....Gill nets are a huge problem in “our” rivers

[Piperdown]

I saw that boat at derby too last Saturday, didn’t think there’d be anything in the river to net right now :s
Early springs start running in March in the fraser

[ratherbefishin]

The thing that is so frustrating is the decline in size and numbers of Chinook was the worst kept secret in Sooke .Everybody who fished Juan de Fuca knew it. The volunteers did what they could but got zero help from DFO( they ‘studied’it) This implosion COULD have been averted by a concerted effort to put more fish in the system.The ‘Wild Salmon’ response ( do nothing) by DFO was a complete disaster..to add insult to injury,the volunteer built water control 4’ high dam was destroyed by the government because ‘if we had a massive force 9 earthquake it might breech the dam and cause flooding downstream..(.nobody mentioned that an earthquake of this magnitude would level Victoria) so there you have it,nobody at either the provincial or federal level did anything and today we’re shut down,the recreational guys took it on the chin...short term profit oriented bad forestry management destroyed the spawning grounds, pollution and over fishing was the coup de grace ...not to mention the lost recreation, I wonder how many BILLION dollars will this cost the whole industry,hotels, guides, tackle, boats,motor and all the spin off industry.
yeah,I’m choked,at 72 I’m unlikely to still be around even if they do manage to bring back the salmon fishing in 10 years..( even if they started TODAY you can’t just reverse decades of bad management in a year or two...the very MINIMUM is 5 years away to see ANY results ,and I just don’t have the TIME left( I was looking at a book of the history of tyee fishing in Cambell river,just pictures now)

ps- yes we can catch pinks but how many people are going to shell out $300 for a 4 hour guided fishing trip to catch a 4 lb pink which are only there one month of every second the year anyway?

[ratherbefishin]

We got ‘good news’ and ‘bad news’..the good news is we can still go fishing,the bad news is we can’t use hooks...

[835]

The finger pointing needs to stop. It never will.... There is not one user group to blame. everyone has taken theirs.
What we need to do is forget the Commie Vs Sport Vs Native Vs logging ... and we all need to Vs the F uckers in the big city that don't know shit...

There is a river in the states, sorry I cant remember the name... They Killed 13 sealions.... 13,,, near nothing... That river had a return of 3k Steel head in 2017... it got a 7k return this year. for the lives of 13 sealions....
Damned near every hatchery fish ,, around 80% I think it is... caught off Sooke is from the Columbia... Why? The Yanks actually put fish in the rivers!

These threads on here and the rest of the internet are just showing us the problem... its US! it needs to be US Vs the city F ucks... we need to
1) kill pinnipeds
2) rehab streams and balance the PH in the rivers ( yep acid rain )
3) PUT FISH IN THE RIVERS
4) work on ocean survival
5) stop fighting amongst ourselves....

Ps, Nog is more involved in the science side of this than most all of us.. myself included. and note. he didn't point a finger at a user group....

[weatherby_man]

There are definitely user group issues that need to be addressed.

[Island Idiots]

I fail to understand pointing fingers at user groups. I thought the government we elected was responsible for managing our fish and wildlife? Point the finger at those successive governments that failed to do their duty and based their decisions on politics and votes instead of science and the success of the resource.
Then point the finger at us for allowing them to do it. Apathy and a system based on corruption is responsible. It is our system and it is our responsibility to fix it, together.

[weatherby_man]

Yes I get that and yes the whole thing is ultimately DFO's fault for not managing and enforcing properly. However, when one user group is running willy-nilly over regulation and common sense then you do definitely have a user group issue that needs to be addressed.

[835]

Weatherby man,,, for sure... that is correct. BUT! what more commonly happens is misinformation on the internet. Is that user group really running around willy nilly? is it just a small section of it?
regardless, only alignment and sacrifice from all will help us in the right way... Sitting on the internet saying " the Indians will be selling chinook in the closure" just creates anger against a user group when it is most likely just a small portion of it ... IF they do it.


Thomas Seiwid is trying to swing the government into a cull of Pinnipeds using his Heritage.... he has the biggest gun. Yet so many people point fingers at the Natives.... news flash ... they aren't all the same! some of the comments on his FB page blow my mind! Fisherman questioning his motive.... It the same as ours! More fish! who cares who uses the fish for now, lets just get some fish.....

[charlie_horse]

I'm jot going to pretend to know the science however on the topic of predators, which I'm well aware of the seal/sea lions issue one I've heard discussed quite a bit but never mentioned online is the bull trout populations.

I'm not sure if there is any real data to support that they do impact populations, but the squamish river fisheries blow for salmon these days and it's not hard to catch a bully from what I've seen.

[ratherbefishin]

Why is it that the only people who actualy DO something are the volunteers trying to put more fish in the system,cleaning up streams etc ,while the DFO ‘studies ‘ it ? This whole debacle didn’t happen over night,it’s been DECADES in the making...here’s an interesting thought for you-if the orcas eat Chinook,which are declining in size, then it takes TWO 20 lb Chinook to equal ONE 40 lb Chinook....resulting in TWICE as many salmon that will never live to spawn because of size alone.When was the last time you saw a 60 lb tyee? ..in a picture,maybe? Whats happening is the decline in numbers is now escalating expodentialy as the runs collapse .

[835]

Mergansers are huge. seals sea lions...... there are all kinds of predators out there.... mink, otters.... Some need to be balanced.... and sure maybe a kill fishery on bulls would help. It could be a great ticket for Fisherperson Recruitment as well.
We need Fisheries to actually be responsible for the science of it as well as the implementer of a proper fix.... Swim surveys on that river would be simple.... and are most likely done already.

Quick example on how Sports fisherman hurt our fish....
fishing Kelt Steelhead. I have met over my life many people who fish Kelts on a sensitive system, usually getting good numbers... and they think they are cool for catching a lot of fish.... The mortality rate on these fish is huge...
are all sports fishers bad because of this? no.... piles of Steel come off the Stamp every season.... it is in trouble now.... yet Down Island the Cowichan which has no hatchery fish is doing ok...

I know this is about Chinook and I just talked about Steelhead but the theory is the same... We all take ours... we need to drop it and go against the City and Government....

[835]

Why is it that the only people who actualy DO something are the volunteers trying to put more fish in the system,cleaning up streams etc ,while the DFO ‘studies ‘ it ? This whole debacle dodn’t Happen over night,it’s been DECADES in the making...here’s an interesting thought for you-if the orcas eat Chinook,which are declining in size, then it takes TWO 20 lb Chinook to equal ONE 40 lb Chinook....resulting in TWICE as many salmon that will never live to spawn because of size alone


to add to your thought here......
The SRK's most only feed on 20lb plus fish...... only recently has hatcheries started to put large fish with large fish and smalls with smalls when breeding..... the fish we created before we knew this was a cookie cutter 20lber

[ratherbefishin]

I just got a book on the Campbell River tyee fishing...will we EVER see fish like that again? An old guy I used to know( dead now) was a seiner man,told.me about the huge springs they would get up rivers inlet way..60-.80- 100 lb fish...

[835]

if we get our shit together we will.... The Campbell river is the river that was the proving ground to the new idea of making big fish, and they have seen a difference..... The "Science" is there...

[weatherby_man]

I volunteered for years on the board of a well known rec fishing org in BC. I gave it up when we started to default to capitulation to that user group. Nothing got done and everything hinged on the views of that user group and how we could "work with them". Well working with them didnt improve anything for the recreational angler, but sure as you-know-what didnt do anything to impinge on the free-for-all by that user group. It was wheel spinning around at its finest. So yes I have a LOT of experience in this.

Again, it doesnt take away from the total lack of effort by DFO to manage, enhance, and enforce. However, its the elephant in the room.

[835]

I volunteered for years on the board of a well known rec fishing org in BC. I gave it up when we started to default to capitulation to that user group. Nothing got done and everything hinged on the views of that user group and how we could "work with them". Well working with them didnt improve anything for the recreational angler, but sure as you-know-what didnt do anything to impinge on the free-for-all by that user group. It was wheel spinning around at its finest. So yes I have a LOT of experience in this.

Again, it doesnt take away from the total lack of effort by DFO to manage, enhance, and enforce. However, its the elephant in the room.

I'm not doubting you at all. Nore your background. In this world of internet I could either try to punch holes in what you just said or take you for your word.... too few people take others for their word...
I have zero doubt that everything these days bows to FN. No I do not agree with that, Trust me.... I just don't think now is the time to battle it out with them. I think they need fish as much as we all do, and if we all worked at saving the fish instead of worrying about who gets them we would be further ahead.....

Sure this is a near impossible task, All these sectors working together.... To me, the bottom line is Fish..... we are on a collision course... Indians get none, Commies get none... Sport yacks get none.... who gives if the indians get the last fish.
if its the last fish its done. We can all go on about restricting FN Fisheries, but you need to look at the piles of fish everyone takes.... And that is not going to do a damned thing for the fish... everyone knows regulation does not make fish.
I am by no means defending Natives... I am at heart a one rule one people advocate.... I just think we are past that for now. So ya, Weatherby man,,, I understand what your saying... I have stories myself..

[weatherby_man]

I hear you and understand your position and for sure dont argue that the root of the issues is DFO inaction and mismanagement. I just got tired of trying to work in that environment as it was always one-sided winning.

[835]

At least you did work in it.....

[weatherby_man]

I tried on some level,,,,and have thought about going back into it but the frustrations really can be unhealthy.

[russm]

Early springs start running in March in the fraser

That’s what I thought it might’ve been, I haven’t fished in the spring for a while, thought it was still a bit later in to the spring.

[ratherbefishin]

That’s why ‘spring’ salmon are called ‘springs’...on the subject of declining stocks, when I was a kid,everybody fished Brentwood...that’s another fishery thats gone.Bucktailing for Blueback, big coho,it’s all gone now.Why?How come?

[kolofardos]

Can someone show me an official fisheries notice on the closure? Not a link to a news story, but a link to an actual notice from Fisheries and Oceans. I've searched and can't find it. If there is not one issued by DFO by this weekend I think I'll be out there fishing.

[835]

New thought of the day........ something I eluded to earlier.....

hatchery heads have been sent to DFO forever.... Sooke has a good deal of hatchery fish that get caught..... almost 100% come from the good old USA.... if they are trying to save the Fraser Chinook... these are not those fish.
and correct me if I'm wrong, but hatcheries have all but stopped clipping fish in most systems.... Why cant places like this keep hatchery fish? Fish they know are not from this system... or country

[steel_ram]

Can someone show me an official fisheries notice on the closure? Not a link to a news story, but a link to an actual notice from Fisheries and Oceans. I've searched and can't find it. If there is not one issued by DFO by this weekend I think I'll be out there fishing.

As of 0800 this morning, April 18. it is not on their website nor was there anything posted at the local boat launch. (Esq. Anglers).

[steel_ram]

New thought of the day........ something I eluded to earlier.....

hatchery heads have been sent to DFO forever.... Sooke has a good deal of hatchery fish that get caught..... almost 100% come from the good old USA.... if they are trying to save the Fraser Chinook... these are not those fish.
and correct me if I'm wrong, but hatcheries have all but stopped clipping fish in most systems.... Why cant places like this keep hatchery fish? Fish they know are not from this system... or country

Hatchery fish are bought and payed for by someones tax dollars and are preferably not the fish we want spawning over the true wild ones (if any). IMO a clipped fish should have been aloud. Not all hatchery fish are clipped. The percentage often depends on how many volunteers are willing to give up a fishing/hunting weekend to clip smolts.

[IronNoggin]

Until the new restrictions are publicly announced (expected any moment) last year's regulations apply. So have at her if you are so inclined. Caveat here is you BETTER be right up to the second staying on top of new regulations releases!!

"I'm disappointed that successive years of bad decisions have led us to this point."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fraser-chinook-fishing-restrictions-1.5103054


(https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fraser-chinook-fishing-restrictions-1.5103054)

[IronNoggin]

Better Maps in this horsepucky department announcement:

www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/maps-cartes/salmon-saumon/2019-chinook-quinnat-eng.html

And this link provides full descriptions of all the management areas:

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2007-77/page-3.html#h-7

[IronNoggin]

In discussions with both Fisheries critics yesterday, it is quite obvious there will be no turning back from this.
At least this year, and likely for five.
I am uncertain what, if anything the Conservatives would do to lighten the impacts, but I have asked, and will post if / when I get a response.

Whole thing is a travesty.
Already (as in NOW) DFO is "letting" some Fraser Bands commence with a week's effort directed on early run (threatened) springs.
That sector is by far the most responsible for the downward spirals of most spring populations.
Area G (me) has conclusively shown that our impact in May is less than ONE percent Canadian origin, but we get yanked.
Many of the recreational fisheries can indicate the same, but they get yanked.
The FN's are told they will have to wait until July 15, but then they get targeted openings.

And while this whole scenario is being developed, DFO quietly sneaks in a new branch, complete with RDG, support staff and funding.
Title of this new entity?
Reconciliation & Partnerships Branch.
I kid you not:

Via Email:

In direct response to Budget 2019 commitments to support our capacity to work with Indigenous groups and advance reconciliation, I am reaching out to you to share some news about planned organizational changes that we are making at Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Pacific Region, to help position us to build on our established relationships with Indigenous communities and organizations across the Region.

I am pleased to share with you that we are moving forward to create a new team in Pacific Region dedicated to work across our diverse departmental branches to advance reconciliation. The name of this new team -- Reconciliation and Partnerships (R&P) Branch -- reflects the outcomes we want to achieve. My hope is that R&P will provide the Region with strategic support as we continue our work of strengthening our relationships and translating the Government’s high-level reconciliation priorities into specific, concrete and coordinated actions in our day-to-day work.

“Partnerships” in the branch title name highlights the need not only to create partnerships with Indigenous communities to achieve our reconciliation objectives but also to work closely with our industry and recreational partners to ensure that these objectives are realized. Achieving reconciliation will require strong relationships between the Department and industry, governmental and non-governmental organizations and other bodies interested in resource management, all of whom play a role at helping to realize reconciliation.

In the upcoming months, our new Regional Director of R&P, David Didluck, will be seeking opportunities to meet sector advisory and management groups to discuss his work. Rest assured that your key DFO program contacts will not change. I look forward to building on our relationship through further engagement to advance reconciliation and partnerships through fisheries and aquatic management.

Rebecca Reid
Regional Director General
Pacific Region

Life, as I knew it, is over.

Nog

[835]

lets just build a race war........

[338win mag]

lets just build a race war........
You dont need to "build a race war" its being put together for our enjoyment.

IronNoggin
I feel your pain, I dont know much about the fish, but I know about ungulates, and the same thing is happening there, almost exactly near as I can tell.
I am baffled that with our low inventory, we still have leh for antlerless Mule deer, seems like there is nobody steering the ship with any thought of rebuilding any stock, wtf?

[ratherbefishin]

...the commercial market is supplied by fish farms ,so apart from the recreational fishermen, who cares? Not only does the west have no voting clout,whatever we do have is greatly diminished by our dwindling numbers....as my fishing guide of 20 years who sold his boat and moved away said ‘it’s over,just like the east coast cod fishery’ ...and even if we did begin a massive enhancement program RiGHT NOW ,it would be at least five years to see ANY results,and at 72,I’ve just plain run out of time....why did it take ‘starving orcas’ to force the DFO to recognise we had a problem that was well known in the local fishing community?....the budget is $850,000 for each and every starving resident orca...how much was allocated to resident fishermen who went home empty handed?

[Ride Red]

Time for a real Priminister with a big set of balls to get this country back in order. Maybe Trump could move to Canada.

[steel_ram]

Time for a real Priminister with a big set of balls to get this country back in order. Maybe Trump could move to Canada.

Yeah. Trump's an expert on fisheries with his big brain. The biggest! He ate a fillet-o-fish once.

[Ride Red]

Yeah. Trump's an expert on fisheries with his big brain. The biggest! He ate a fillet-o-fish once.

Probably do a better job than your JT is doing right now.

[kolofardos]

DFO just posted the closure at 5 PM. No fishing this weekend for me :mad:

[Jack Russell]

Early springs start running in March in the fraser

Chinooks used to run up the Fraser almost ALL year round!

[Ride Red]

Chinooks used to run up the Fraser almost ALL year round!

From early spring reds to late fall whites. I’ve landed them both into the low 40lb range on the Fraser and even bigger with the old Harrison river whites. Sure miss those days.

[dakoda62]

What else did you expect, low browed mouth breathing troglodytes in Ottawa and Victoria, couldn't describe a salmon let alone ever seen one, Years of mismanagement cowtowing to special interest groups.

[Edward Teach]

We were told nearly 30 years ago that access to fish was going to be given in lieu of land claims wherever possible. It was quite clear then that if you have the wrong skin colour, then access to salmon fishing in your future was going to be diminished.

[Ride Red]

We were told nearly 30 years ago that access to fish was going to be given in lieu of land claims wherever possible. It was quite clear then that if you have the wrong skin colour, then access to salmon fishing in your future was going to be diminished.

Still doesn’t make the blatant mismanagement right no matter what the terms.

[Edward Teach]

Still doesn’t make the blatant mismanagement right no matter what the terms.

Oh I agree.
The DFO has done to salmon fishing what they did to East Coast cod...almost exactly. It's as if they planned it.
But I'm pretty certain the truth is they couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were printed on the heel.

[ratherbefishin]

If we are ever to see the salmon return to historic numbers,we have to change the whole mindset from apportioning out ever smaller numbers,quite frankly it doesn’t matter who or what prevents salmon from spawning , a seiner net,a commercial troller ,a sports fisherman, FN net across a river ,a seal or sea lion, .clogged stream,dam,low water - it DOESN’T matter....and until the Government recognizes that, pretty soon there will BE no salmon to fight about .....I hate to even think about it, but the stark reality is ,it’s over.....the only chance we have is to manage our own salmon resource,right here in British Columbia....because if you think someone sitting at a desk 2500 miles away in Ottawa even understands much less cares,you are deluding yourself...case in point,several years ago Goldstream was choked out with chums and they had to weir off the river to prevent more salmon to enter the river and destroy the redds ...they requested permission to harvest n the huge schools of salmon milling about the river mouth, unable to enter.By the time DFO ‘studied’ it,discussed it and finally approved it, the fish had long since died...

[Ride Red]

If we are ever to see the salmon return to historic numbers,we have to change the whole mindset from apportioning out ever smaller numbers,quite frankly it doesn’t matter who or what prevents salmon from spawning , a seiner net,a commercial troller ,a sports fisherman, FN net across a river ,a seal or sea lion, .clogged stream,dam,low water - it DOESN’T matter....and until the Government recognizes that, pretty soon there will BE no salmon to fight about .....I hate to even think about it, but the stark reality is ,it’s over.....the only chance we have is to manage our own salmon resource,right here in British Columbia....because if you think someone sitting at a desk 2500 miles away in Ottawa even understands much less cares,you are deluding yourself...case in point,several years ago Goldstream was choked out with chums and they had to weir off the river to prevent more salmon to enter the river and destroy the redds ...they requested permission to harvest n the huge schools of salmon unable to enter the river....by the time DFO finally approved it, the fish had long since died...

Yes and “ALL” stakeholders needs to be on the same page.

[ratherbefishin]

Everybody wants their of slice of the pie but the pie is shrinking The irony of it is if we DON’T get on the same page there’ll be nothing left to fight about

[IronNoggin]

Oh I agree.
The DFO has done to salmon fishing what they did to East Coast cod...almost exactly. It's as if they planned it.
But I'm pretty certain the truth is they couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were printed on the heel.

AbSo****ingLutely!!! https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Pozitive.gif

Nog

[MB_Boy]

A good commentary by Jason Tonelli from Pacific Angler. https://www.pacificangler.ca/pacific-angler-friday-fishing-report-april-19-2019/


Well it’s official. The DFO and Fisheries Minister have made it non-retention for chinook salmon on the south coast. They just shut down some of the best fishing I have ever seen in our local waters and what is very likely the best fishing on the entire coast right now. That’s just our area. Let’s not forget about the iconic sport fishing communities on the Island like Tofino, Ucluelet, Bamfield, Campbell River, Renfrew, and Victoria, just to name a few. The result is thousands of people are going to lose their jobs and it is going to cost this province hundreds of millions of dollars.
So how did we get here? Well it’s a complicated scenario and the road to this closure has a lot of ups and downs and twists and turns, but it goes something like this. Chinook stocks are diverse. Some come from the Fraser, some from rivers that empty directly into the ocean, some spend 2 years in the freshwater before they leave to the ocean, others out migrate right away, some spend their ocean life in local waters, some go way offshore. So, as you can imagine, some stocks might be suffering while others are doing very well. Large blanket closures are an ineffective way to manage such a diverse resource.
Enter interior Fraser chinook. These fish spawn in the interior tributaries to the Fraser, and they hang out in these rivers for 2 years before out-migrating. To say things are not going well up there is an understatement; less water, long hot summers, warm water, forest fires, siltation, are just a few of the issues these fish have to face for 2 years. The end result is the survival rate is extremely low. The few that do make it after 2 years then have to make it past the seals as they leave the Fraser. Of all the out migrating salmonids, these 2 year old chinook smolts are some of the biggest, only second to steelhead smolts. As a result, the seals focus on them, as they do steelhead smolts. As many as 47% of them are consumed by seals. The few that make it then head offshore to feed and return 2 years later. In general, they come back around the south end of Vancouver Island and into the south arm of the Fraser, returning in the months of April, May, June, and July. There is no doubt these fish need to be protected and we are all for that. Sport fishing regulations have been in place to do so for many years, so much so that our exploitation rate for these fish is either at 0% or so small that it is negligible.

So, what about all these fish off South Bowen right now and over in Nanaimo and Gabriola? Well these are not the fish I just described above. DFO has a lot of DNA data that shows what fish we are catching, that is how we can be so certain. This is a scientific fact, not speculation. The fish we are we catching in these areas are from a variety of rivers where things are not as dire as the conditions seen in the interior of the province. The chinook stocks from these systems are stable, and in some cases are at or near record returns. There is no conservation concern for these stocks and a 2 per day limit is sustainable. A 1 per day limit is certainly sustainable and acceptable from a scientific fisheries management viewpoint. If you have been fishing these past 2 weeks you know how many fish are out there.

Then why did we get shut down? This is the question you should be asking and I am going to tell you the politics behind it. The reality is this. The interior Fraser chinook need protection. Sport fishing regulations have been in place to do so for many years as noted earlier, and commercial troll opportunities for these fish have been reduced heavily in the past and this year are non-existent. The last piece of the puzzle is First Nations in river fisheries for these same fish. You can’t carve any more meat off the bone from the recreational or commercial fleet, the rest has to come from First Nations in river fisheries. This isn’t me speaking; this is the DFO science that was presented in a variety of meetings and forums. The only way to put more of these fish on the spawning beds is to stop in river netting of these fish. Hence the recent closures and reduced opportunities for First Nations over the coming months as per the announcement yesterday. I hope you are connecting the dots here and asking yourself this question. So why is a sustainable fishery like we see off South Bowen, for non-interior Fraser chinook, which are experiencing good to excellent survival rates, closed? You should also be asking yourself why this fishery is closed when it has absolutely nothing to do with these interior Fraser chinook. Well we asked these very questions to the Minister and DFO these past few days. The answer we received was this. Despite the fact our current local chinook fisheries have no impact on these interior Fraser chinook, they have to close the recreational fleet on a grandiose scale so they can reduce First Nation in river harvesting opportunities for interior Fraser chinook. We pointed to their science that shows we aren’t catching those fish and asked if we could have 1 a day, the answer was no. We asked if we could keep a hatchery only, which has absolutely 0 effect on Fraser fish as these fish are from the USA, the answer was no. In short, the answer is the recreational fleet has to be closed first, and then they can take fisheries measures for First Nations second. That precedent was set in a case that is often referred to as the Tommy Case (https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2008/2008bcsc1095/2008bcsc1095.html). Let me make this clear. If there is a conservation concern, I will be the first to put the rods away, and if anyone has a right to the first harvest of those fish, I agree it should be First Nations for ceremonial and food fish purposes. I get that if we are fishing for the same fish. What I don’t agree with and what I don’t get, is the DFO shutting down one distinct fishery and user group so they can shut down another user group on totally different fish. This is ludicrous and political, this is not scientific, and this is mismanagement of the resource at the highest level. So, I think it is important that we are all very clear that this Minister just shut down the entire south coast so they can attempt to reduce First Nation in river impacts on interior Fraser chinook. On our home waters that means they just shut down South Bowen, Thrasher, Nanaimo, which are all experiencing amazing fishing (for non-interior Fraser stocks), just to have the opportunity to keep First Nations nets out of the Fraser to save interior Fraser stocks. You can see my frustration. Unfortunately, I don’t think it is going to do much to help these fish. DFO needs emergency hatchery production for these fish, the habitat needs some help, and we need to deal with the seals. None of that is happening anytime soon from what I can see. Since the DFO has sacrificed the whole south coast, I hope they plan on making sure the Fraser is net free until July 14. I hope fisheries like this have now been closed 2019 Open Times for the Mid & Upper Fraser River First Nations Fisheries – Week 16 (https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/abor-autoc/UpperFraser/UMFOpenTimes-eng.htm). I will give the DFO the benefit of the doubt on this one and assume that is the case; I certainly hope so for the fish. In the meantime, diverse and sustainable recreational fisheries remain closed and the south coast marine fishery and economy has been cut off at the knees.

If you think this management strategy is unacceptable, you need to let DFO know. Send an email to these people and let them know this is not acceptable. Let them know how it is affecting you and let them know how you are going to vote next election.

Hon Jonathan Wilkinson Minister Jonathan.Wilkinson@parl.gc.ca
Rebecca Reid, DFO Regional Director General, Pacific Region Rebecca.Reid@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

[ratherbefishin]

Proof the DFO doesn’t listen to local input even from their own people is when they shut down all fishing west of Otter point last year( including halibut) so the whales wouldn’t be disturbed by the noise( you anchor for halibut) The local fisheries guys had suggested west of Sherngham,but DFO shut down went of Otter...no, the whale watching boys were not shut down...

[Piperdown]

Good post up Hoggy and bang on the money

[IronNoggin]

https://scontent.fyvr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58444734_10161633789025484_5612089897163685888_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr3-1.fna&oh=94316c7feaf68ac5bb7f897e643cf1de&oe=5D2B714E

[quadrakid]

DFO. I can,t say anything positive about their track record. The kicker is that for any changes like we are seeing to have any effect these rules will have to be in place for many many years.These new regs will be with us for a long time. Going to hurt a lot of businesses.

[ratherbefishin]

Agreed....the only problem at age 72, I just don’t HAVE ‘many years’...what really galls me is it was so unnecessary,this was coming on for years while DFO did nothing....volunteers were the only guys doing something
yeah,I’m choked ,looks like the days of the thrill of a big Chinook ripping out 100 yards of line three or four times before coming to the boat are gone..

the very least east we can do is vote the liberals out in October and hopefuly get someone in who WILL listen to facts and reason and DO something other than ‘study’ it....som3 things we can’t do,like water temperature but there are things we can do -MORE hatcheries NOW ,curtailing the massive increase in seals and sealions

[IronNoggin]

The Federal government caved into demands from FN's that all others be swept from the water and so used both the recreational and commercial sectors as negotiating points to service that particular form of blackmail. In Area G's May fishery, interception of Canadian Origin fish has been proven over decades to consist of less than one percent - and exponentially lower than that in the case of Fraser stocks of concern. The same can be said for many of the recreational fisheries. The largest and most continuous removals of these threatened / endangered stocks are via the in-river FN fisheries.
Paying the blackmail by forcing thousands off the water will do nothing to improve the fishery for the FN's nor anyone else.
The government understood that when it proceeded.
The FN's did as well, and now some are publicly stating they will not comply.

This was / is not a case of adhering to nor addressing conservation, it is rather a case of paying blackmail to one sector at the cost of all others. Period.

Here's a close analogy:

YOU are sitting at your desk one day, when in walks a fed or two. Clear out your desk, you are leaving and you may not come back. When you demand to know why, the answer is "a select group of folks who happen to be more entitled than you (in our opinion) has decided they don't like you nor your employment. No, you really don't effect what they do at all, but we decided to cater to their demands. You are simply collateral damage. Now hurry up and please move along now".

No compensation even considered.

Many of those they are forcing off the water are in their 60's or more, and as such do not represent "good candidates" for retraining or re-entry into the work force.
Again, the government is completely aware of that.
Again they could give a rat's ass regarding whose lives, families and communities they put in jeopardy.
And for that, I fully intend to ensure they are held accountable.

For you see, I am one of those affected.
We may well lose our house.
Already relations with my Lady are beyond strained.
Life, as I built it and knew it is basically over.
With one stroke of the government pen.
That will realize no benefit to the resource whatsoever.

But they have given me something they did not count on.
Time.
Time to do whatever I can to ensure the public understands just what the reality of this situation is.
And time to do my damnest to ensure they pay in full at the polls this coming fall.

Extremely Upset,
Matt

[835]

Good luck Matt, and I mean that. keep up the information on all the fronts you do. People need to understand.

[ratherbefishin]

What’s particularly galling is volunteers who have worked for years at stream rehabilitation and salmon enhancement have been shut right out ,sacrificed for political correctness and pressure groups ,and there’s not one darn thing can be done about it ,they call the shots .Trudeau talks about ‘jobs ,jobs ,jobs’ but NOT out here as a whole industry has been first ignored then sacrificed. Nobody in Ottawa cares and nobody is listening while pretty boy spouts his spiel...

[ratherbefishin]

What’s particularly galling is volunteers who have worked for years at stream rehabilitation and salmon enhancement have been shut right out ,sacrificed for political correctness and pressure groups ,and there’s not one darn thing can be done about it ,they call the shots .Trudeau talks about ‘jobs ,jobs ,jobs’ but NOT out here as a whole industry has been first ignored then sacrificed. Nobody in Ottawa cares and nobody is listening while pretty boy spouts his spiel...they’re allocated $850,000 for each and every orca,how much was allocated for stream enhancement , preditor control and hatcheries?....we can’t even ‘voluntarily’ do preditor control- you go to jail for that...

[835]

What’s particularly galling is volunteers who have worked for years at stream rehabilitation and salmon enhancement have been shut right out ,sacrificed for political correctness and pressure groups ,and there’s not one darn thing can be done about it ,they call the shots .Trudeau talks about ‘jobs ,jobs ,jobs’ but NOT out here as a whole industry has been first ignored then sacrificed. Nobody in Ottawa cares and nobody is listening while pretty boy spouts his spiel...they’re allocated $850,000 for each and every orca,how much was allocated for stream enhancement , preditor control and hatcheries?....we can’t even ‘voluntarily’ do preditor control- you go to jail for that...


There is the greatest question we all have....... what happened to the 720,000 Chinook smolt Us private guys put into Sooke Harbour? If they took all that money and dumped it into all you said the problem would be solved with money in the bank...

[Onesock]

Alberta jobs....gone. BC jobs....gone. Trudeau....gone. Liberals....gone!

[bottles]

Man this is getting brutal!! I've sent some emails, but not expecting much!

[ratherbefishin]

835-wasn’t this the second year volunteers put those smolts into Sooke harbour in an attempt to actually DO something about increasing the Chinook numbers? Are these volunteers going to continue to volunteer their time and efforts if they get shut out?I know one guy who won’t be there next year, my fishing guide who I have chartered with for 20 years....sold his boat,sold his house and is moving away...can’t blame him either,and I think there will be a lot more guides following suite. You want a berth at sooke harbour marina ? Take your pick,there’s lots of room now and likely a lot more to come.Charter guides simply can’t afford to pay moorage on boats that will be just growing weed on their bottom 8 to 10 months a year...by the time we were allowed to keep coho last October they had gone through...even the once consistent winter spring fishery was a bust this year..that leaves just two months ( August and September ) to pick up charters.Nobody can run a charter business fishing 6 or 8 weeks a year..we saw the commercial troller guys go through the same thing,reduced to just a short openings, now it’s our turn... oh well, maybe the charter guys can take up whale watching( that was always the bonus,seeing orcas coursing through the sports fleet,no they weren’t the slightest bit scared off by boat motors-the theoretical reason we were shut down west of a Otter Point last year)

[303savage]

Hmmm there is nothing mentioned about all the nets the natives have in the rivers. the wife and I drove by Kamloops lake a few years ago and there was 8 gill net boats fishing the lake.

[835]

835-wasn’t this the second year volunteers put those smolts into Sooke harbour in an attempt to actually DO something about increasing the Chinook numbers? Are these volunteers going to continue to volunteer their time and efforts if they get shut out?I know one guy who won’t be there next year, my fishing guide who I have chartered with for 20 years....sold his boat,sold his house and is moving away...can’t blame him either,and I think there will be a lot more guides following suite. You want a berth at sooke harbour marina ? Take your pick,there’s lots of room now and likely a lot more to come.Charter guides simply can’t afford to pay moorage on boats that will be just growing weed on their bottom 8 to 10 months a year...by the time we were allowed to keep coho last October they had gone through...even the once consistent winter spring fishery was a bust this year..that leaves just two months ( August and September ) to pick up charters.Nobody can run a charter business fishing 6 or 8 weeks a year..we saw the commercial troller guys go through the same thing,reduced to just a short openings, now it’s our turn... oh well, maybe the charter guys can take up whale watching( that was always the bonus,seeing orcas coursing through the sports fleet,no they weren’t the slightest bit scared off by boat motors-the theoretical reason we were shut down west of a Otter Point last year)


don't forget the Demamiel Dam in that volunteer let down....... 50k to repair the dam...... that is absolutely nothing..
or what about the Bonaparte fish ladder full of sediment that has now stopped every returning Steelhead from making it up the river to spawn...... what would that have cost to fix? how much of that 825k per whale will get there?
DFO, as we all know is useless...

I could choke down a harsh restriction IF that damned DFO actually did something in the rivers to build fish....
The Fraser fish we are trying to "SAVE" will all be past us Sport/Commie guys and in the river when they open it up to Ceremonial/Trade ( Commercial ) Native fishing...
its F ucked...... Regulation does not make fish especially when you don't regulate one of the biggest takers.

[ratherbefishin]

Why are they trying to ‘save the whales’ but not ‘save the steelhead’?....they ‘save the bunnies’ they ‘save the wolves’ they ‘save the seals’ but they totally ignore anything outside their myopic view of political correctness... seems to me the DFO is only guided by public protest,not scientific evidence and is trying to score points at the ballot box,making it ‘look like’they are ‘doing something’ without doing anything. Terry and I have spent many hours observing the decline in both numbers and size of Chinook(the June -July run of once common 30-40 lb with the occasional one over 50 lb Chinook is only a fading memory now) and the burgeoning seal population off Possession point that make it virtually impossible to land a Chinook anywhere close to the rocks ....who cares? Obviously not DFO ,the recreational fishery and all the supporting infrastructure was ignored and sacrificed.Yeah,I’m choked , I will never realize my dream to take my grandsons out with Terry and watch them land a big Chinook off the third rock just west of Otter ....best I can hope for now is some pinks,which are fine eating but just not the same as a trophy Chinook ripping the line out.But I guess as long as the MPs can order a farm raised salmon in an Ottawa restraunt they won’t care - or do anything.Looks like I’ll be getting my salmon at Costco now.. I recall coming back to the ramp at Sooke Harbour Marina and the fisheries officer asking ‘how many wild salmon did you release?’ And I said ‘none’ but we released a whole bunch of unclipped hatchery ‘....
.the guy looked at me and said, ‘yeah,actualy you’re right,but that’s what the law is’

[835]

They only care about Votes.. that is it. And we are vastly out numbered.
you know the sad thing? when The Steel are gone they will still blame us. When the chinook are dead they will still blame us..... They will never see that balance is something we have to do. I fear the day I get "called out by a city slicker" I am a bit pent up..... Ratherbefishing, I know exactly what you are saying... about your Grandkids only for me it is my now 5 year old daughter.

[ElectricDyck]

A lot of people have lost faith..residents and commercial harvest get tightened up in the name of conservation and first nations harvests get opened up? What once was some shitty boats and pieced together nets in the fraser/harrison is now forklifts 4x4 totes and professional equipment.

My neighbours attitude is kill them all so we dont have to fight over them anymore...as I see hunting opportunity taken away, even as far north as Atlin where there is zero conservation concern and a town of 400 people that would bennift from some out of town money I am on my way to givving up ...

[guest]

Done with the lies and BS from DFO and its bosses.
How pathetic as none of these closures grow more fish. Its take take take by FNs.....nothing building a future.
For many like myself volunteering at hatcheries, fundraising, creek and river clean ups, submitting data and samples through the avid angler program, then getting shat on by politicians that could actually care less about habitat and growing more fish.
Its all jyst a change in allocation of what remains.
Kiss my Arse DFO im done with your studies, your lies, mistruths.
You becon every call too FNs. I ask you what are they putting into the economy like the Recreational angler. Zip.
I purchased my 1st boat at 16. Im almost 60 now. Eight boats later and too many thousands of dollars into the economy for this .
Days are numbered boyz n girls. Enjoy whats left till its gone because DFO is doing nothing to create more fish or more opportunities for recreational fishers. Its all but gone.
Sold my boat yesterday. Done.

[338win mag]

Done with the lies and BS from DFO and its bosses.
How pathetic as none of these closures grow more fish. Its take take take by FNs.....nothing building a future.
For many like myself volunteering at hatcheries, fundraising, creek and river clean ups, submitting data and samples through the avid angler program, then getting shat on by politicians that could actually care less about habitat and growing more fish.
Its all jyst a change in allocation of what remains.
Kiss my Arse DFO im done with your studies, your lies, mistruths.
You becon every call too FNs. I ask you what are they putting into the economy like the Recreational angler. Zip.
I purchased my 1st boat at 16. Im almost 60 now. Eight boats later and too many thousands of dollars into the economy for this .
Days are numbered boyz n girls. Enjoy whats left till its gone because DFO is doing nothing to create more fish or more opportunities for recreational fishers. Its all but gone.
Sold my boat yesterday. Done.
I was wondering the same about wildlife enhancement projects being undertaken by volunteers all over the province, we are doing these things so FN can benefit from them?

[835]

I was wondering the same about wildlife enhancement projects being undertaken by volunteers all over the province, we are doing these things so FN can benefit from them?


The short and General answer is yes....
We are not fishing any chinook. So everything we have done is not going to the Natives this year. Sure things like the 720k smoult I mentioned in Sooke harbour might not get harvested by FN but it wont be by us either... so the short Version is everything anyone has done for Chinook will be 80% ( obviously a number that is up for debate due to where the closures are ) un harvestable .... and when we can kill fish a good chunk of them will be by in some of the big areas...

[Crab Bait]

I would like everyone to ask themselves (before you bitch), "what have I really done for the resource?" "What have I really put back?"

If you spend $1000's on your boat and tackle, days getting ready and weeks fishing, what percentage of $$ and time have YOU spent helping the fish. I'm betting that the raffle ticket you bought for $20 last year wasn't quite enough, huh? That day you volunteered was 5 years ago? It doesn't count anymore. The fish banquet you attended was great, but maybe it's time we all you our hands dirty, if we want to keep fishing in the future.

I have noticed that quite often, "the loudest do the least", when it comes to helping our salmon.

Lots of talk and finger pointing (and hypocracy) (SCREAMING) - "Its them, not us!" DFO has screwed it up! Damn seals! Fishfarms! FN fisheries! "We only catch what is allowed", "Eco groups are out to get us!" , "Damn Whales" and my personal favourite "I catch and release!". But what did you actually do? What did you put back?(to help the salmon?)

Our spring fish banquet (Campbell River) raised over $100k for the salmon and was attended by 425 people. Know how many active fishing guides were there? Zero! Know how many guides donated prizes? Two. Commercial fishers- zero.

The tackle stores, resorts and commercial fishing suppliers were well represented, but the actual boat drivers were noticeable in their absence. A good bunch of retired guides and retired comm fishers, but the guys that are still actively doing it................ not so much.

A guide makes his/her living off a public resource. No requirement to put anything back. You would think the connection between dead fish = $$ would motivate consumers to protect the resource? Largely not. (SCREAMING) "But I create jobs!" "The sale of licenses helps enhancement!" "I generate more $$ per fish than commercial guys!" - Horsesh##, the 100 springs you bonked last year didn't help the resource. Oh, you caught and released another 100? You know an average of 1 in 10 released fish goes straight to the bottom. How many more gimp off and provide seal lunch? Your catch and release does less harm than bonking, but it still does harm, and sure as hell doesn't help the resource.

Liberals, NDP, DFO, Federal Government...... Do you remember the last time government fixed anything? Limited budgets, bureaucracy and always dealing with the lowest bidder. Do you guys really think they will fix? If they do, how quick will it happen?

That smell? It's the s##t hitting the fan, and it can get much worse. Maybe these closures will wake a few people up. It has always been grass root organizations that have created change. You CAN fix your local stream, donate more $$, join a streamkeepers group, while writing letters to the people above in government. Get your hands dirty, and stop talking about it. If you salmon fish, you are part of the problem. That's OK, just put something back.

The 4 guys that you fish with for a week every year? Get together and volunteer for a day and cough up more $$! Guides - how about every customer in your boat gives $20 to the PSF or local enhancement group. Talk to your customers and let them know where it is going.

Most of all, ask yourselves "WHAT HAVE I REALLY PUT BACK?" am I being honest with myself? Am I one of the screamers that doesn't contribute, and blames others? What can I do to make even a small difference?

If we want our kids to be able to catch a fish we need to do more. 40 years from now, when all chinook are dead, do you want to be the guy that tells his grandkids "I didn't actually do anything about it at the time, but man, did I bitch and complain!"

[IronNoggin]

I would like everyone to ask themselves (before you bitch), "what have I really done for the resource?" "What have I really put back?"

You can step down from that high horse of yours any time now.
My working career for most of my life was dedicated towards the betterment of the fisheries resources.
I can guarantee you I have put in one hell of a lot more time, energy and effort than you or anyone like you.
At the end of that run I decided it was perhaps time I could now relax on that account, and enjoy some of the fruits of my labors.
The Gov gave that opportunity away.

So while on one hand I do understand we need more front line soldiers to correct this effing mess, on the other I certainly don't appreciate the type of insinuations you are spewing today.

Angry? You bet.
They just destroyed my life.
And your suggestion is that I should have been more involved?

GET A GRIP! :evil:

Pissed,
Nog

[835]

I would like everyone to ask themselves (before you bitch), "what have I really done for the resource?" "What have I really put back?"

If you spend $1000's on your boat and tackle, days getting ready and weeks fishing, what percentage of $$ and time have YOU spent helping the fish. I'm betting that the raffle ticket you bought for $20 last year wasn't quite enough, huh? That day you volunteered was 5 years ago? It doesn't count anymore. The fish banquet you attended was great, but maybe it's time we all you our hands dirty, if we want to keep fishing in the future.

I have noticed that quite often, "the loudest do the least", when it comes to helping our salmon.

Lots of talk and finger pointing (and hypocracy) (SCREAMING) - "Its them, not us!" DFO has screwed it up! Damn seals! Fishfarms! FN fisheries! "We only catch what is allowed", "Eco groups are out to get us!" , "Damn Whales" and my personal favourite "I catch and release!". But what did you actually do? What did you put back?(to help the salmon?)

Our spring fish banquet (Campbell River) raised over $100k for the salmon and was attended by 425 people. Know how many active fishing guides were there? Zero! Know how many guides donated prizes? Two. Commercial fishers- zero.

The tackle stores, resorts and commercial fishing suppliers were well represented, but the actual boat drivers were noticeable in their absence. A good bunch of retired guides and retired comm fishers, but the guys that are still actively doing it................ not so much.

A guide makes his/her living off a public resource. No requirement to put anything back. You would think the connection between dead fish = $$ would motivate consumers to protect the resource? Largely not. (SCREAMING) "But I create jobs!" "The sale of licenses helps enhancement!" "I generate more $$ per fish than commercial guys!" - Horsesh##, the 100 springs you bonked last year didn't help the resource. Oh, you caught and released another 100? You know an average of 1 in 10 released fish goes straight to the bottom. How many more gimp off and provide seal lunch? Your catch and release does less harm than bonking, but it still does harm, and sure as hell doesn't help the resource.

Liberals, NDP, DFO, Federal Government...... Do you remember the last time government fixed anything? Limited budgets, bureaucracy and always dealing with the lowest bidder. Do you guys really think they will fix? If they do, how quick will it happen?

That smell? It's the s##t hitting the fan, and it can get much worse. Maybe these closures will wake a few people up. It has always been grass root organizations that have created change. You CAN fix your local stream, donate more $$, join a streamkeepers group, while writing letters to the people above in government. Get your hands dirty, and stop talking about it. If you salmon fish, you are part of the problem. That's OK, just put something back.

The 4 guys that you fish with for a week every year? Get together and volunteer for a day and cough up more $$! Guides - how about every customer in your boat gives $20 to the PSF or local enhancement group. Talk to your customers and let them know where it is going.

Most of all, ask yourselves "WHAT HAVE I REALLY PUT BACK?" am I being honest with myself? Am I one of the screamers that doesn't contribute, and blames others? What can I do to make even a small difference?

If we want our kids to be able to catch a fish we need to do more. 40 years from now, when all chinook are dead, do you want to be the guy that tells his grandkids "I didn't actually do anything about it at the time, but man, did I bitch and complain!"





I totally agree with the idea of what you are saying..... "Be a helper, not a taker"
BUT, from you post I also take that you are an event organiser/helper... which is great.... what you should be doing is not standing up there pointing your own finger back at us but helping push people to help by providing a venue...
Remember the allocation scandal? people basically yelling at members to step up or shut up... what did that do? it drove a wedge through a 10,000 member forum plus more...

as much as I see what you are saying and understand it... it does nothing to help. I have a small family and a big house... all I can do is donate... I donated 200$ to 1Campfire, sure it was a raffle but I don't do that, ever... I did it because it is for a good cause and I am in able to volunteer... I have no time. back in the day I volunteered for Vic Sar.... for three years... so yes I do take part when I can. You should not be up there pointing your own finger, people with your experience should help people like me find a place I can do my best to financially help.

[ratherbefishin]

We pay taxes and we buy licences....the Federal Government has a responsibility to manage the resource, and they failed miserably ,just like they failed on the East Coast cod....the user groups have limited resources to do much and the volunteers have been doing yeoman job trying to do what the DFO should have been doing all along.The seven(7) Chinook on my licence last year had very little impact on the resource . Thankfuly we got a some pinks and few coho ( that we could keep) and about 4 sockeye( generally we cannot retain any we catch,when the sockeye are off sooke, there is no opening )

[Ride Red]

I would like everyone to ask themselves (before you bitch), "what have I really done for the resource?" "What have I really put back?"

If you spend $1000's on your boat and tackle, days getting ready and weeks fishing, what percentage of $$ and time have YOU spent helping the fish. I'm betting that the raffle ticket you bought for $20 last year wasn't quite enough, huh? That day you volunteered was 5 years ago? It doesn't count anymore. The fish banquet you attended was great, but maybe it's time we all you our hands dirty, if we want to keep fishing in the future.

I have noticed that quite often, "the loudest do the least", when it comes to helping our salmon.

Lots of talk and finger pointing (and hypocracy) (SCREAMING) - "Its them, not us!" DFO has screwed it up! Damn seals! Fishfarms! FN fisheries! "We only catch what is allowed", "Eco groups are out to get us!" , "Damn Whales" and my personal favourite "I catch and release!". But what did you actually do? What did you put back?(to help the salmon?)

Our spring fish banquet (Campbell River) raised over $100k for the salmon and was attended by 425 people. Know how many active fishing guides were there? Zero! Know how many guides donated prizes? Two. Commercial fishers- zero.

The tackle stores, resorts and commercial fishing suppliers were well represented, but the actual boat drivers were noticeable in their absence. A good bunch of retired guides and retired comm fishers, but the guys that are still actively doing it................ not so much.

A guide makes his/her living off a public resource. No requirement to put anything back. You would think the connection between dead fish = $$ would motivate consumers to protect the resource? Largely not. (SCREAMING) "But I create jobs!" "The sale of licenses helps enhancement!" "I generate more $$ per fish than commercial guys!" - Horsesh##, the 100 springs you bonked last year didn't help the resource. Oh, you caught and released another 100? You know an average of 1 in 10 released fish goes straight to the bottom. How many more gimp off and provide seal lunch? Your catch and release does less harm than bonking, but it still does harm, and sure as hell doesn't help the resource.

Liberals, NDP, DFO, Federal Government...... Do you remember the last time government fixed anything? Limited budgets, bureaucracy and always dealing with the lowest bidder. Do you guys really think they will fix? If they do, how quick will it happen?

That smell? It's the s##t hitting the fan, and it can get much worse. Maybe these closures will wake a few people up. It has always been grass root organizations that have created change. You CAN fix your local stream, donate more $$, join a streamkeepers group, while writing letters to the people above in government. Get your hands dirty, and stop talking about it. If you salmon fish, you are part of the problem. That's OK, just put something back.

The 4 guys that you fish with for a week every year? Get together and volunteer for a day and cough up more $$! Guides - how about every customer in your boat gives $20 to the PSF or local enhancement group. Talk to your customers and let them know where it is going.

Most of all, ask yourselves "WHAT HAVE I REALLY PUT BACK?" am I being honest with myself? Am I one of the screamers that doesn't contribute, and blames others? What can I do to make even a small difference?

If we want our kids to be able to catch a fish we need to do more. 40 years from now, when all chinook are dead, do you want to be the guy that tells his grandkids "I didn't actually do anything about it at the time, but man, did I bitch and complain!"



Through the ‘90s I spent many hours brood stalking and some stream rehab projects; all out of my pocket. Now, you do have some valid points Crab Bait, but the big question; What have you done???

[scoutlt1]

I would like everyone to ask themselves (before you bitch), "what have I really done for the resource?" "What have I really put back?"

If you spend $1000's on your boat and tackle, days getting ready and weeks fishing, what percentage of $$ and time have YOU spent helping the fish. I'm betting that the raffle ticket you bought for $20 last year wasn't quite enough, huh? That day you volunteered was 5 years ago? It doesn't count anymore. The fish banquet you attended was great, but maybe it's time we all you our hands dirty, if we want to keep fishing in the future.

I have noticed that quite often, "the loudest do the least", when it comes to helping our salmon.

Lots of talk and finger pointing (and hypocracy) (SCREAMING) - "Its them, not us!" DFO has screwed it up! Damn seals! Fishfarms! FN fisheries! "We only catch what is allowed", "Eco groups are out to get us!" , "Damn Whales" and my personal favourite "I catch and release!". But what did you actually do? What did you put back?(to help the salmon?)

Our spring fish banquet (Campbell River) raised over $100k for the salmon and was attended by 425 people. Know how many active fishing guides were there? Zero! Know how many guides donated prizes? Two. Commercial fishers- zero.

The tackle stores, resorts and commercial fishing suppliers were well represented, but the actual boat drivers were noticeable in their absence. A good bunch of retired guides and retired comm fishers, but the guys that are still actively doing it................ not so much.

A guide makes his/her living off a public resource. No requirement to put anything back. You would think the connection between dead fish = $$ would motivate consumers to protect the resource? Largely not. (SCREAMING) "But I create jobs!" "The sale of licenses helps enhancement!" "I generate more $$ per fish than commercial guys!" - Horsesh##, the 100 springs you bonked last year didn't help the resource. Oh, you caught and released another 100? You know an average of 1 in 10 released fish goes straight to the bottom. How many more gimp off and provide seal lunch? Your catch and release does less harm than bonking, but it still does harm, and sure as hell doesn't help the resource.

Liberals, NDP, DFO, Federal Government...... Do you remember the last time government fixed anything? Limited budgets, bureaucracy and always dealing with the lowest bidder. Do you guys really think they will fix? If they do, how quick will it happen?

That smell? It's the s##t hitting the fan, and it can get much worse. Maybe these closures will wake a few people up. It has always been grass root organizations that have created change. You CAN fix your local stream, donate more $$, join a streamkeepers group, while writing letters to the people above in government. Get your hands dirty, and stop talking about it. If you salmon fish, you are part of the problem. That's OK, just put something back.

The 4 guys that you fish with for a week every year? Get together and volunteer for a day and cough up more $$! Guides - how about every customer in your boat gives $20 to the PSF or local enhancement group. Talk to your customers and let them know where it is going.

Most of all, ask yourselves "WHAT HAVE I REALLY PUT BACK?" am I being honest with myself? Am I one of the screamers that doesn't contribute, and blames others? What can I do to make even a small difference?

If we want our kids to be able to catch a fish we need to do more. 40 years from now, when all chinook are dead, do you want to be the guy that tells his grandkids "I didn't actually do anything about it at the time, but man, did I bitch and complain!"




If this is your idea of how to encourage more people to "give back", you are so wrong....

In my years I've given a shit ton of my time and $$$$ not just for salmon, but for freshwater fish and wildlife as well. I don't need to "ask myself anything". And I sure as hell don't need to define or quantify any of that to you.

The DFO, solely, from the very top down, is to blame for where we are today.

Guess what. I am done. No saltwater fishing for me this year. No more donations or volunteer work for me.
I've been doing it for years, and the only result is that everything gets f**cked up for the resource, and the only people who benefit are Indians.

On and fyi.... For you to say that the day I volunteered 5 years ago "doesn't count"?
Best I don't comment...

[gitnadoix]

"The DFO, solely, from the very top down, is to blame for where we are today. " I disagree with this, I feel its more the courts and people who have used the courts to make the govt pay $$$$$$$$$$$$ that seems to be directing this country in all things be it wildlife management or giving money to migrant Terrorists ...

[Edward Teach]

How about a total boycott of native fish sales?

[Wild one]

How about a total boycott of native fish sales?

Never have and never will buy fish from FN.

[guest]

How about a total boycott of native fish sales?

Will never happen. Always more waiting to get a deal. Whitey continues to buy.
This is far bigger than most know. Bullies within the FNs are selling black market salmon and have for years. Throw some here and there for elders and others to keep them shut up. Cases go to court get thrown out. Everything back to status quo. Very sickening Government has allowed this crap to continue. As for the future of BC Salmon......the writtings on the wall. Some FNs coninue to sell under the counter while purchasers belly up to the totes.....next.

Our memories of fishing with family and friends are soon to be that. Just memories.
The BC Econmy is going to feel this Mismanagement Hurt Big time. Sadly many are loosing their livelihoods over this. Its awful. And expected to get much worse with more closures over the next 5 years.

Way to go DFO and Goverment. Good job. Well done !

[ratherbefishin]

I wonder about the FN upstream of the net fishery...if their relatives downstream have pretty much taken (and sold) what they want,what is left for the bands who live upstream? Seems to me the whole FN river fishery is unregulated and it’s grab all you want for yourself. The Government won’t touch it with a 10’ pole ,all they want is a photo op for ‘Truth and Reconciliation’ ,but the status quo is hurting a lot of FN who aren’t on the feeding chain( and yeah, I know because I have adopted FN kids )

[ElectricDyck]

FN behavior is human nature, the majority of people would take advantage the same way when every time you go to court because you were caught breaking the law you were taught there was no consequences and actually come out of it with more rights and there is no incentive to achieve when you get money for nothing...

Also the liberal attitude that convinces them they re hard done by and need hand outs, total bullshit, lots of races have gone through worse and came out better, the difference is the victim mentality cycle ensured by continued rewards with no accountability, keeps them on the hook begging for more. This will continue as its whats been and is being taught in school..check out your kids text books, more bull shit. Not to mention the white privledge bull shit now being circulated in schools.

Rec fishing and hunting for regular income people will continue to be regulated to death either with reasoning of scarcity of fish, morality judgments, and FN control. Sad.

[Walking Buffalo]

Suing DFO for closing recreational fishing without conservation concerns and using this action as a bargaining posture is surely a winnable case.

[IronNoggin]

Suing DFO for closing recreational fishing without conservation concerns and using this action as a bargaining posture is surely a winnable case.

On the surface one would think so.
Our sector has already gone that route in the past.
We lost.

The issues you will face:

Hope you have VERY deep pockets. They will fight you tooth and nail, using your own money against you (limitless supply according to Pierre's Idiot Child) and the best legal beagles money can buy.

They will undoubtedly ensure the matter gets placed before a sympathetic (to their cause) judge.

They will drag the matter out in court as long as possible (see deep pockets).

They will malign you, and try to paint you in the most extremely negative light possible, and are far from being above directly lying to do so.

But, if you have the tenacity, thick enough skin, and a couple million to blow off, why not?

Nog

[Walking Buffalo]

Yes, Noggin, court action would be a serious affair.

Yet I suspect that this is the only way non-treaty people are going to have any hope accessing wildlife into the future.
We need courts to establish our rights into law!

[IronNoggin]

... Yet I suspect that this is the only way non-treaty people are going to have any hope accessing wildlife into the future.
We need courts to establish our rights into law!

I do concur.
However unless we can get shed of the current folks who sit in our Supreme Court, I simply don't think we can get there.
I cannot believe they will EVER side with non-treaty folks over their proven pets.

Sadly,
Nog

[scott h]

How about a total boycott of native fish sales?

Considering that those sales are illegal and exceptionally unethical I would say .....DO NOT BUY NATIVE'S FISH !!!!!!!
Hopefully the courts see fit to make serious examples of people who support these sales.

[ratherbefishin]

Ethics take a back seat to cheap fish or meat...FN are supplying a market demand and its as simple as that. The feds could set up a sting ,but they don’t have the political will to do it. Easier to turn a blind eye and talk about ‘truth and reconciliation’ Unfortionately all this creates a backlash against FN who do not act this way

[Crab Bait]

The answer is "I'm taking my football and going home"?

Yeah, that will fix it

[Wild one]

The answer is "I'm taking my football and going home"?

Yeah, that will fix it

Just as much as guys like yourself pissing off possible support

[835]

Just as much as guys like yourself pissing off possible support


neither of these help......
His soap box and there "taking the football home"

he is pissing of possible support, they are taking valuable knowledge and help away........

Answer to it all?
a damned organisation like we all thought BCWF was to stand up and mobilize us...... individual we all do this.... What do we have now? We have a half dozen small organizations that are trying to build so they can do something.....
but no one knows about them, who they are... if they can trust them....
That is exactly what the soap box stander needs to do and that is a half near impossible task because it involves more money than anyone has..... And that is why I think the BCWF totally dropped the ball. They should have changed their "mantra" and stepped up to that plate.... but instead we had "The resident hunter" issue.... then the " change of the guard" Scandle...... and now 50% of the trust is gone....... Just like the fish....

Everyone knows the BCWF, they have a board stood up already... they have a bank account already.....I bet most people would jump right back behind them if they actually became a "Spear" and not a bystander....
but what do I know.... I have no volunteer experience...... but F uck... I have killed more fish than many people ever have or will..... So there is that

[IronNoggin]

The answer is "I'm taking my football and going home"?

Yeah, that will fix it

Who the hell mentioned ANYTHING about stepping away? :roll:
Certainly NOT myself, nor a great many of my Buddies who are directly affected by this bullshit.
In fact, we are ramping up our efforts immensely, and are going full on to ensure these bassturds pay in full at the polls this fall.
And we are already in discussions with those we expect to replace them...

So, beyond holding another self back-patting dinner and belittling potential allies via social media, WTF else are YOU personally contributing??
Nice divisive tactic. By any chance do you work for the department? Your rants might suggest so...
.................................................. ............................................

First time in his entire reign I have heard anything I can agree with slip out of Horgan's yap:

“Their livelihoods are now compromised because of these decisions and I know the federal government understands that,” Horgan told CTV. He went on to say, “I would love to see a compensation package for those that are being adversely affected but at this point I haven't seen that.”

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/plan-to-help-chinook-salmon-orcas-dismissed-as-unfairly-targeting-sports-fishermen-1.4392094

Doesn't mean I will ever change my mind and vote for him, but I do find it interesting that a Lefty actually Gets It.

BTW: The Feds are ducking and running as hard as they can from any thoughts or considerations of compensation. While they quite often immediately jump to the aid of those their gross incompetence pushes off fisheries in the east, out here we are simply collateral damage.

In another turn, certain well placed academics at UBC are now calling for whales to be granted the dame rights as humans.
I kid you not:

Scientists and environmental lawyers agree that whales need the legal rights of personhood to give them a voice in courts and legislatures, and to secure their continued survival and well being.

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/why-the-southern-resident-killer-whales-should-have-the-same-rights-as-people

And The Circus Continues...

Nog

[ElectricDyck]

Steve Rinella commented how we have a hierarchy of animals, people have talked about doing all sorts of things to bring back salmon numbers including killing seals but no ones talked about killing a few whales lol

[Islandeer]

Whales as people, interesting concept.
Might be supportable if their rights Trumped Fn .
The transients could ease our overburdened cabinet by holding meetings in the pool, when it came to all in favour time the transients could eat who ever pissed them off!

[ratherbefishin]

If only Liberals were an endangered species,they sure aren’t starving ,that’s for sure....the tough part about all this is,there’s really nothing we can do.The Government holds all the cards and they can do what they darn well please... we can rant and rave all we want but if Trudeau decides to shut down the whole fishery and give to the FN* he can do it.Personally, I think that’s his agenda anyway, costs him nothing ,it’s no skin off his backside and he gets a photo op with his smiling face out of it for ‘Truth and Reconciliation’ .Does the rest of Canada care if I can’t go salmon fishing?give your head a shake, I doubt it....
* and yeah,I got FN blood in me too,I have adopted several FN kids and my FN son refuses to go hunting anymore because his relatives were convicted of killing cow elk just before they calved,he said ‘if that’s what they do,I want nothing to do with it and I don’t want people thinking I do that stuff if they see me carrying a rifle’...he never went hunting with me again..

[guest]

[QUOTE=Islandeer;2089167]Whales as people, interesting concept.

Now dont forget...... The lost or challenged Single Orca that wanted onto every ones boat at Nootka a few years ago was a local human residents Grand Father........ really?
Now questions been called. Just how does that work?

I still cant connect the dots on that .......

[Piperdown]

If only Liberals were an endangered species,they sure aren’t starving ,that’s for sure....the tough part about all this is,there’s really nothing we can do.The Government holds all the cards and they can do what they darn well please... we can rant and rave all we want but if Trudeau decides to shut down the whole fishery and give to the FN* he can do it.Personally, I think that’s his agenda anyway, costs him nothing ,it’s no skin off his backside and he gets a photo op with his smiling face out of it for ‘Truth and Reconciliation’ .Does the rest of Canada care if I can’t go salmon fishing?give your head a shake, I doubt it....
* and yeah,I got FN blood in me too,I have adopted several FN kids and my FN son refuses to go hunting anymore because his relatives were convicted of killing cow elk just before they calved,he said ‘if that’s what they do,I want nothing to do with it and I don’t want people thinking I do that stuff if they see me carrying a rifle’...he never went hunting with me again..

Your son is a fine young man, maybe he should lead by example and still enjoy what are his and our rights.

[ratherbefishin]

Most of the FN people I know woud give you the shirt off their back ,do something for them and you have a friend for life. But ignorance comes in all colours and speaks all languages
Several years ago I was fishing on the breakwater alongside some FN young fellows and they hooked and landed nice ling cod. Someone on the upper level told him it was ‘out of season’ and he told them he was FN and could legally keep it but would release it because it was spawning.Not all FN are out to exploit the resource just because than can.But it doesn’t take many to give them all a bad name

[835]

RBF,
Your kid, i am glad he is thinking like that. This might be out of my place to say but. He does have herritage. Something different than us.. well you say your part FN so maybe you got this covered! Lol.. as much as i say stuff about fn... they have a connection we dont.. your kid neds to hunt.. its in him.. not all of us judge people like that..

Sure i have spoke alot of race here.. but people are people ... everyone can be good or bad..

[ratherbefishin]

What some FN don’t realize( or care) is by exploiting the resource beyong sustainability they are actually harming themselves by their short sighted actions.They give ALL of them a bad name.Don’t know,but I suggest they learned their lessons well from the white guys....muscle your way in,grab all you can get and to H with everybody else.The very fact industry has clear cut the forests, damed the rivers , polluted the streams and foreshore to the point harvesting natural food is either gone or inedible is not a record anybody should be proud of.But,what’s done is done, if there is to be any future to hunt,fish, live and eat as naturally as we can,we ALL have to sit down together and come up with workable,viable solutions that preserve the resource for future generations but that involves mutual trust and a common goal. It could work,it should work, but I’m not sure it can work....and it will never work unless we’re all sitting at the same table
prejudice and missunderstanding florish as long as people remain entrenched in their own small minded thinking.

Several years ago we were moose hunting way up past Ft St James,camped at a FS campground, next to a FN hunting camp.I took my younger FN son ( who does hunt) and introduced myself,asking permission for my boy to hunt on their traditional territory( I’m teaching my son his FN protocols ) We were warmly recieved,offered the use of their boats and cabin ,invited in for a meal ,given some local input and offered help if we got a moose.( other people have told me of similar experiences with FN) My hunting partner is a surgeon ,noticed a very pregnant woman ,babies and some kids running around and told them they were a long way from the hospital and if they had a medical emergency,he was in the camp right next door.When we left,they told us if we were coming back,to let them know .Thats how it can work,and how it should work...Why doesn’t work that way?

[ElectricDyck]

Suggesting one race learned its evil ways from another is not true. We're all capable of great evil. Plenty of examples of the Haida rowing across to the mainland and raping and pillaging and taking slaves of other Indians..Ray Mears has a great series of canadian fur trading time history, one story is of either Rae or Thompson, can't remember but he outfitted a group of indians who were to be his guides to go explore a mineral source they spoke of...they wanted rifles and were given them...when they got there they came upon another tribe on the opposite bank of the river and the guides unleashed their new technology on women and children of another tribe..there were no minerals.

[MB_Boy]

Whales as people, interesting concept.
Might be supportable if their rights Trumped Fn .
The transients could ease our overburdened cabinet by holding meetings in the pool, when it came to all in favour time the transients could eat who ever pissed them off!

Floating ballot boxes to follow.

[IronNoggin]

What some FN don’t realize( or care) is by exploiting the resource beyong sustainability they are actually harming themselves by their short sighted actions.

While I agree with that assessment, I do not agree with your suggestion of where that abuse came from. There are abusers in every camp. Always have been, always will be. I do strongly hope that some among the FN abuser camp get a grip and come to the realization you penned here.


Why doesn’t work that way?

Let's take the current Topic Point of this thread into consideration.
The Fraser FN's BLACKMAILED DFO into the draconian cuts we see imposed upon non-FN's (commercial and recreational fishers). The threat behind the blackmail was that those FN's issuing the edict would fish the endangered Fraser Chinook runs right into extinction were everyone else not pulled off the water. Runs they themselves, by their own actions, brought to the point they are today.

Now, understand that many of those non-FN's negatively impacted had any historic significant catches of the stocks in question, and DFO well knew that. But, they fell to the blackmail agenda, and closed the others off willy-nilly, regardless of decades of scientific proof their impact was less than negligible.

Thus, in effect, the FN's made DFO remove everyone else from the fisheries based on spite. And the carrot was that they would slow down their efforts in extirpating those runs. In other words, you take out everyone else, and we will do what is right and necessary for our own stocks which we have fished dangerously close to extinction.

I have lived, worked with and alongside Inuit and FN's most of my life.
And there is common ground shared by many.
However when GREED and SPITE take over either side, bad things follow.
This is VERY much the case we are witnessing today in our fisheries.
And was well avoidable had the FN's actually come to the table with good intents.
They did not.

So as to the "why it doesn't work that way" query, in this particular case the FN's have to look no further than their own mirrors to answer that.

Sadly,
Nog

[ratherbefishin]

I was referring to individuals getting along,all societies include all manner of human ills. Nobody was exempt and my comment about the FN learning their lessons well was somewhat tongue in cheek and it can be argued they didn’t exploit the resource to the same degree Europeans did,it was that they lacked the technology and equipment.But all this is semantics, where do we go from here? Carry on status quo until the last salmon has gone?


Remember the eastern cod fishery where some of the commercial guys were quite happy to keep on fishing until the last cod was gone and I believe the same was true of the turbot

oh,speaking of the sooke volunteers releasing smolts,is done on their own nickle with no help from the government ( they ‘study’ it) and to add insult to injury,once the smolts are released,they have to run the gauntlet of the seals waiting for them....and nobody can do a darn thing about it,the seals are protected...

[guest]

IMHO
First Nations should be able to hunt and fish for their own food .
Using traditional methods or at least regulated. Not nets across rivers exterminating rivers of fish for the future No Black Market BS.

Be Accountable and policed like everyone else.

As said by many there are abusers of all races........no matter who you are. These abusers should face and suffer the same consequences when out side the Law. Of which the Law should be the same cor every one.

This comes down to ACCOUNTABILITY.......of which in many cases the over netting the over harvest the ZERO CONSEQUENCES for your actions.......with no accountability there can not be SUSTAINABILTY period.

Stop the insanity! Or there will be no future for our Wild Salmon period. Pathetic its come to this. Shame on Governments past and present........shame on courts past and present. They have created this Shite Storm .....good luck fixing it.

Until its 1 Law for All racism will continue. Abuse of our forests rivers and oceans will continue.
Please will a Government grow some balls for a change and make us ALL EQUAL. Stop the Racism the Governments have created.

I feel for those loosing their pay checks, jobs, boats, homes etc.
Im lucky and only lost what was held dear to my soul. Part of me.

Sold my boat this week . Eff it! Why keep paying more to this effed up Liberal Gong Show.
No more!

[Edward Teach]

First Nations should be able to hunt and fish for their own food .
Using traditional methods or at least regulated. Not nets across rivers exterminating rivers of fish for the future No Black Market BS.

I agree.
Fish with White man's gear, or White man's boat, or White man's motor?
Fish according to White man's rules...the same rules for EVERYBODY.

Want to make yourself a wooden spear or a net out of cedar bark and fish with that? Knock yourself out.

[ratherbefishin]

There had been a lot of allegations about illegal FN net fishing ( which the DFO denied at a recent meeting in Victoria )and sales along the highway.What needs to be done,and should be done is documenting any illegal activity,and posting it here as well as forwarding it to DFO,your local MP ,and the Conservative MP.Call the local TV station and get it in the media .Then we have something to work with.

[Hunter gatherer]

IMHO
First Nations should be able to hunt and fish for their own food .
Using traditional methods or at least regulated. Not nets across rivers exterminating rivers of fish for the future No Black Market BS.

Be Accountable and policed like everyone else.

As said by many there are abusers of all races........no matter who you are. These abusers should face and suffer the same consequences when out side the Law. Of which the Law should be the same cor every one.

This comes down to ACCOUNTABILITY.......of which in many cases the over netting the over harvest the ZERO CONSEQUENCES for your actions.......with no accountability there can not be SUSTAINABILTY period.

Stop the insanity! Or there will be no future for our Wild Salmon period. Pathetic its come to this. Shame on Governments past and present........shame on courts past and present. They have created this Shite Storm .....good luck fixing it.

Until its 1 Law for All racism will continue. Abuse of our forests rivers and oceans will continue.
Please will a Government grow some balls for a change and make us ALL EQUAL. Stop the Racism the Governments have created.

I feel for those loosing their pay checks, jobs, boats, homes etc.
Im lucky and only lost what was held dear to my soul. Part of me.

Sold my boat this week . Eff it! Why keep paying more to this effed up Liberal Gong Show.
No more!
Politics 101 divide and conquer. This is why special interest groups get different classifications,

[scott h]

There had been a lot of allegations about illegal FN net fishing ( which the DFO denied at a recent meeting in Victoria )and sales along the highway.What needs to be done,and should be done is documenting any illegal activity,and posting it here as well as forwarding it to DFO,your local MP ,and the Conservative MP.Call the local TV station and get it in the media .Then we have something to work with.

That is exactly what needs to be done! Better yet photos with time, date and exact location should be posted onto something like facebook so that they can be shared extensively with those in the general community. Posting on a sight like this is merely "preaching to the choir" while sharing on facebook will point out the issue to those that don't understand there is a problem. However the quickest way to lose public support will be to appear racially motivated as apposed to just pointing out what is happening.

[IronNoggin]

...What needs to be done,and should be done is documenting any illegal activity,and posting it here as well as forwarding it to DFO,your local MP ,and the Conservative MP.Call the local TV station and get it in the media .Then we have something to work with.

Something of this exact nature is being set up on the Sportfishing BC Forum. I will post details once they are up.

Nog

[ratherbefishin]

Verifiable documentation is the only thing that might work....quite frankly,I’m getting tired of seeing Justin’s smiling face posing for every photo op he can get and prattling on about ah,Climate change ah...(no,we don t need another tax to ‘make us aware’) speaking of which how much carbon was put into the atmosphere on his surfing junket in Tofino last weekend?
I just booked 3 days charter trips( that is,if there are any guys still chartering ) off Sooke in September...hopefuly I can find 6 Chinook for my freezer and that will be my salmon fishing for the year,I guess.A crust of bread is better than none I guess..

[IronNoggin]

SFI Update:


CHINOOK RESTRICTIONS IMPACT SURVEY

As all are aware, on April 16 the DFO announced new management measures—non-retention fishing restrictions to address conservation concerns for particular runs of Fraser River Chinook. The broad application of those measures and an unwillingness to consider options that would allow opportunity for the public fishery while not impacting the stocks of concern is causing unnecessary and significant damage to BC's reputation and, more importantly and critically, to the economies of small coastal communities and small businesses around the bottom end of Vancouver Island and the entire length of Juan de Fuca and Georgia Straits in particular.

Appreciating the serious impacts and to better characterize, understand and convey what the restrictions mean to British Columbians, the BC Chamber of Commerce is reaching out to all sectors who are affected by this decision with a quick six question survey. If your business is impacted by the restrictions placed on Chinook salmon, please take a few moments to complete the BC Chamber of Commerce - Chinook Restrictions Impact Survey (https://sportfishing.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=efe5de6efa001c46a0c5b48af&id=99674f0e8c&e=d242420a33).
SOUTHERN RESIDENT KILLER WHALE - SRKW FEEDBACK NEEDED BY MAY 3rd

As many will recall, measures to help protect SRKW were to be announced by Ministers Wilkinson and McKenna on time with the approximate return of the whales to our waters. This means that a first round of measures are in the process of development and will soon be implemented. Over the past few months, DFO and Transport Canada led a number of Technical Working Groups. The SFI and SFAB representatives were invited to participate. And, as some will have noted or perhaps even attended, there were three public consultation sessions, in Victoria, Sooke and in Richmond. There is also an opportunity now and until May 3rd to provide feedback (DFO.SRKW-ERS.MPO@dfo-mpo.gc.ca?subject=SRKW%20Feedback%20-%20Scenario%20A) on two proposals that have been developed as a result of the TWG sessions and public consultation.
The government has consolidated feedback from the Technical Working groups and from scientific publications and produced a consultation paper (https://sportfishing.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=efe5de6efa001c46a0c5b48af&id=fed62c5761&e=d242420a33) that outlines two approaches. Your feedback and response to these proposals is needed. Express your support for Option A as it proposes much less impact on recreational fishing and boating activities than Option B.
The consultation process closes this Friday, May 3rd and the measures will be implemented shortly after that. The c (https://sportfishing.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=efe5de6efa001c46a0c5b48af&id=8decce20ef&e=d242420a33)onsultation paper (https://sportfishing.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=efe5de6efa001c46a0c5b48af&id=3dc2af48c1&e=d242420a33)is here and provide comments in support of Option A to DFO.SRKW-ERS.MPO@dfo-mpo.gc.ca (DFO.SRKW-ERS.MPO@dfo-mpo.gc.ca?subject=SRKW%20Consultation%20Paper%20-%20Support%20for%20Scenario%20A)
For more information and details about SRKW please visit both SRKW.org (https://sportfishing.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=efe5de6efa001c46a0c5b48af&id=b5dfad3a6a&e=d242420a33) or the SFI SRKW page (https://sportfishing.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=efe5de6efa001c46a0c5b48af&id=b8e594faae&e=d242420a33).

[Piperdown]

Subject: FN0395-COMMERCIAL, RECREATIONAL and ABORIGINAL - Salmon - Fraser Chinook 2019 Management Measures - Vancouver Island, Fraser Interior and North Coast, and Coast-wide Recreational Annual Aggregates - Amendment to FN0377
Category(s): ABORIGINAL - General Information,ABORIGINAL - Salmon: Economic Opportunities,COMMERCIAL - General Information,COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Troll,RECREATIONAL - General Information,RECREATIONAL - Salmon



Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada Subject: FN0395-COMMERCIAL, RECREATIONAL and ABORIGINAL - Salmon - Fraser Chinook 2019 Management Measures - Vancouver Island, Fraser Interior and North Coast, and Coast-wide Recreational Annual Aggregates - Amendment to FN0377 This Fishery Notice supersedes FN0377. The correct notice is as follows: This notice provides the Fraser Chinook management measures for the 2019 fishing season. Chinook Conservation Measures:To address Fraser River Chinook conservation concerns, DFO is implementing precautionary reductions to support conservation and promote recovery of at risk Chinook. New management measures for Fraser Chinook are outlined below. --------------------------------------------------------------------------Northern Commercial Fisheries--------------------------------------------------------------------------Area F Troll – Chinook non-retention until August 20, 2019. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------Southern BC Commercial Fisheries---------------------------------------------------------------------------Area G Troll: Delayed start for AABM Chinook until August 1, 2019. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------Southern BC Recreational Fisheries:---------------------------------------------------------------------------WCVI Subareas 20-1 and 20-2, and offshore Area 121, as well as Areas 123 to 127 seaward of a 1 nm Boundary Line. 00:01 hours April 19 to 23:59 hours July 14, 2019, Chinook non-retention; 00:01 hours July 15 to 23:59 hours December 31, 2019, 2 Chinook per day The Boundary Line is approximately 1 nm seaward of the surfline. For the full definition of the Boundary Line, please see the bottom of this fisheries notice. Chinook daily limits remain at 2 per day shoreward of this Boundary Line. Queen Charlotte and Johnstone Straits (Subareas 12-1 to 12-13, 12-15 to 12-48): 00:01 hours April 19 to 23:59 hours July 14, 2019, Chinook non-retention; 00:01 hours July 15 to 23:59 hours August 29, 2019, 1 Chinook per day;00:01 hours August 30 to 23:59 hours December 31, 2 Chinook per day. Strait of Georgia – North - Areas 13 to 17, Area 28 and Subareas 29-1 and 29-2: 00:01 hours April 19 to 23:59 hours July 14, 2019, Chinook non-retention; 00:01 hours July 15 to 23:59 hours August 29, 2019, 1 Chinook/day;00:01 hours August 30 to December 31, 2019, 2 Chinook/day. Strait of Georgia – South and Juan de Fuca - Areas 18, 19 and Subareas 20-3 to 20-7, 29-3 to 29-5 and 29-8,:00:01 hours April 19 to 23:59 hours July 31, 2019, Chinook non-retention; 00:01 hours August 1 to 23:59 hours August 29, 2019, 1 Chinook per day;00:01 hours August 30 to 23:59 hours December 31, 2019, 2 Chinook per day. Fraser River mouth, tidal and non-tidal waters – Subareas 29-6, 29-7, 29-9 to 29-17 and those waters of the Fraser River upstream from the Highway Bridge at Mission, BC to the Alexandria Bridge:January 1 to August 23, No fishing for salmon. August 23 to December 31, Chinook non-retention. After August 23, dependent on in-season information fisheries may be announced targeting other species. These will also be subject to any measures required for other stocks of concern such as Interior Fraser Coho or Steelhead salmon. Freshwater Regions 3, 5, 7 and 8:Remain closed to fishing for salmon until further notice.Fishing opportunities for other salmon stocks or species may be provided subject to in-season information and measures required for stocks of concern such as Interior Fraser Coho or Steelhead salmon. For clarity, Chinook retention is permitted in Areas 11, 21 to 27, 111, Subarea 12-14, and those portions of Areas 123 to 127 shoreward of a line 1 nautical mile seaward of the surfline. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------Coast-wide Recreational Fisheries:---------------------------------------------------------------------------For the recreational fishery, the annual aggregate limit for Chinook salmon is ten (10) coast-wide in all tidal waters. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------Southern BC Food, Social and Ceremonial Fisheries:---------------------------------------------------------------------------In Southern BC marine waters beginning 00:01 hours April 19 until 23:59 hours July 14, 2019 Chinook non-retention will be in effect in the following Areas: Subareas 12-1 to 12-13 and 12-15 to 12-48; Areas 13 to 20, 28, 29-1 to 29-10 and 121; and those portions of Areas 123 to 127 offshore from a 1 nautical mile (Boundary Line) seaward of the surfline. For the full definition of the Boundary Line, please see the bottom of this fisheries notice. For clarity, Chinook retention is permitted in Areas 11, 21 to 27, 111, Subarea 12-14, and those portions of Areas 123 to 127 shoreward of a line 1 nautical mile seaward of the surfline. Fraser River downstream of the Thompson River: Chinook non-retention to July 14; very limited priority access for ceremonial purposes will be considered prior to July 14.Further information on specific management actions will be communicated by separate Fishery Notices. You can view or subscribe to fisheries notices at: http://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------Definition: Boundary Line for Areas 123 to 127--------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Boundary Line is approximately 1nm seaward of the surfline and is defined as follows: A line that begins at Pacheena Point lighthouse at 48 degrees 43.327’ N 125 degrees 05.855’ Wthen to 48 degrees 42.456’ N 125 degrees 06.583’ W seaward of Pachena Point,then to 48 degrees 46.420’ N 125 degrees 13.997’ W seaward of Cape Beale,then to 48 degrees 54.572’ N 125 degrees 33.622’ W seaward of Amphitrite Point,then to 49 degrees 05.100’ N 125 degrees 54.646’ W seaward of Cox Point,then to 49 degrees 10.280’ N 126 degrees 04.790’ W seaward of Blunden Island,then to 49 degrees 16.472’ N 126 degrees 15.140’ W seaward of Rafael Point,then to 49 degrees 20.008’ N 126 degrees 17.188’ W seaward of Sydney Inlet,then to 49 degrees 23.807’ N 126 degrees 24.483’ W seaward of Hesquiat Point,then to 49 degrees 21.620’ N 126 degrees 28.478’ W seaward of Matlahaw Point,then to 49 degrees 22.113’ N 126 degrees 33.508’ W seaward of Estevan Point, then to 49 degrees 23.869’ N 126 degrees 35.333’ W seaward of Homais Cove,then to 49 degrees 27.766’ N 126 degrees 35.971’ W seaward of Split Cape,then to 49 degrees 31.494’ N 126 degrees 35.669’ W seaward of Escalante Point,then to 49 degrees 34.042’ N 126 degrees 41.611’ W seaward of Maquinna Point,then to 49 degrees 36.254’ N 126 degrees 50.538’ W seaward of Bajo Point,then to 49 degrees 39.892’ N 126 degrees 55.125’ W seaward of Skuna Bay,then to 49 degrees 44.400’ N 127 degrees 00.289’ W seaward of Ferrer Point,then to 49 degrees 50.767’ N 127 degrees 10.151’ W seaward of Tatchu Point,then to 49 degrees 59.142’ N 127 degrees 28.125’ W seaward of Lookout Island,then to 50 degrees 06.948’ N 127 degrees 41.617’ W seaward of Jackobson Point,then to 50 degrees 03.599’ N 127 degrees 47.722’ W seaward of Clerke Point,then to 50 degrees 05.868’ N 127 degrees 57.906’ W seaward of Solander Island,then to 50 degrees 19.284’ N 128 degrees 00.130’ W seaward of Lawn Point,then to 50 degrees 31.501’ N 128 degrees 14.238’ W seaward of Topknot Point,then to 50 degrees 35.683’ N 128 degrees 19.249’ W seaward of Cape Palmerston,then to 50 degrees 39.280’ N 128 degrees 23.459’ W seaward of Winifred Island,then to 50 degrees 41.116’ N 128 degrees 24.166’ W seaward of Cape Russell,then to 50 degrees 44.137’ N 128 degrees 26.559’ W seaward of Strange Rock,then to 50 degrees 47.926’ N 128 degrees 27.363’ W seaward of Cape Scott,then to Frederiksen Point. FOR MORE INFORMATION: Contact your local DFO officehttp://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/contact/regions/pacific-pacifique-eng.html

[ratherbefishin]

We know the recreational Chinook fishery is closed until August ,with one retention limit and September two.But what about coho and sockeye?

[Piperdown]

Read the release!!!!! I could give 2 shits about coho this is about springs and certain areas are open NOW and 2 A DAY!!!

[835]

so I sent this yesterday. I was not able to go to the ralley but I wanted to support it Jonathan.Wilkinson@parl.gc.ca

Good day
My name is Dru i live in Victoria.
I am a conservationist, sport fisher, ex sport guide and ex commercial fisher.
I support the protest entirely.
I beg you to stop using politics to make decisions.. you could support pinniped control but im sure you fear kick back on that. Controling pinipeds, especially in the Fraser itself is one easy way to help this specific system. Hatchery input is another that has less political troubles.. clip the fins let us return the heads and you will know escapement.
Please use the data you already have to make decisions and keep collecting more...
Stop this nonsense you have started..
Please

[orest.06]

We are all stewards of the land, this planet earth and therefore we are all First Nations responsible for its care, its species, and each other.
———————unless of course if you came from some other planet then you’re exempt!

[IronNoggin]

From yesterday's protest:

However, anglers say these conditions will do little to protect the chinook populations they were intended for, and harm communities that rely on the sport fishing industry. The $1.1 billion industry supports over 9,000 jobs.

According to organizers, the DFO's own DNA sampling of chinook salmon caught last year shows that recreational fishermen reeled in less than one per cent of vulnerable chinook stocks.

"Sport fishermen are the first ones that want to protect stocks of concern because we want to see them in future years," said Jason Assonities, a local fishing guide.

"We have the data that says we're not really catching them in this fishery, so why are we getting closed down when we're not catching these stocks of concern?" Assonities added.

"For us, it's pretty clear this is all optical, and it's all political."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/this-is-all-optical-sport-fishers-slam-dfo-s-chinook-closures-1.5119270?cmp=rss

Every single time Pierre's Idiot Child can get in front of a microphone he mumbles repeatedly about Jobs Jobs Jobs.
I guess they simply don't count if they aren't in Quebec, eh?

Nog

[IronNoggin]

Interestingly enough, DFO's own website, which had both the in-river FN Chinook fisheries listed that they let (one week plus extensions on The Most Endangered run of Chinook in the Fraser), has been modified such that they have now been removed? I have sent them a request for clarification, and will see if one of the other Ladz captured a screen shot (I do believe so) which I will post once located. Appears to be even more shenanigans occurring...

And of course the Minister continues his blatant lies over this issue:

""As Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, Canadians expect me to make my decisions based on science and evidence, and ensure these endangered wild chinook stocks survive," stated Wilkinson. "The restrictions were mindful of what we have heard from recreational and commercial fisheries stakeholders."

https://www.nsnews.com/news/angered-anglers-protest-catch-and-release-chinook-rules-in-north-vancouver-1.23809422

He simply could not have strayed any further from the truth in that comment.

Nog

[IronNoggin]

Anyone that wants to understand how much closed door planning happens between the DFO and FRAFS (Fraser River Aboriginal Fisheries Secretariat) have a read. Warning, barf bag may be required...

https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?attachments/final-letter-to-dfo-re-kamloops-forum-march-12-14-2019-pdf.45275/

Nog

[IronNoggin]

Another poster, on another Forum, who gets some of the unintentional ramifications:

"As Coastal Communities all up and down BC and especially on Vancouver Island get hammered in order to appease the lower Fraser First Nations or more correctly, a few bad actors, there is a growing realization that the Financial interests of a great many First Nations in the smaller coastal communities are also being damaged and in some cases severely. Many of their interests are directly connected to the Public Fishery and tourism. In my view they are increasingly becoming concerned about this and as the full impact of how this will harm there interests sinks in I think it will get more interesting for the Federal Liberals. In effect by completely capitulating to the Lower Fraser First Nations in an unbalanced and misguided failing attempt at reconciliation, the Federal Liberals not only turned their back not just on BC's coastal communities but also on the many coastal First Nations who are apart of those communities."

Yep.

[835]

never thought of it that way but its true..... I had a lot of FN Friends who worked in the industry,,,,,

[ratherbefishin]

Justin wanted a photo op for the next election ,and this was a cheap way to get his smiling face in the news...gotta choke when he goes on about ‘jobs,jobs jobs’...tell that to the guides, tackle companies, sporting goods stores,tourist destinations and marinas...

[IronNoggin]

Anyone that wants to understand how much closed door planning happens between the DFO and FRAFS (Fraser River Aboriginal Fisheries Secretariat) have a read. Warning, barf bag may be required...

https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?attachments/final-letter-to-dfo-re-kamloops-forum-march-12-14-2019-pdf.45275/


It was noted that many could not access that link. Perhaps one must be a signed in member to view?

Anyway, here's the letter again for those with strong stomachs:

http://frafs.ca/sites/default/files2/Final%20Letter%20to%20DFO%20re%20Kamloops%20FORUM% 20%20March%2012-14%202019.pdf?fbclid=IwAR38Ewn3ZNWsxo5xjivUOgr8UUr OXH9RvOpLc185ctpXxLN-in8Klri6OzU

Nog

[thick]

Yup, that is hard to stomach. The sense of entitlement that has been granted is sickening. All sectors of resource extraction are in deep trouble under our current regime (fed and prov). I was hoping to wet a line for the first time in the ocean this year but am now highly skeptical I will have the opportunity.

[IronNoggin]

Despite the Minister's whining that this was all about getting the FN's to stop Fraser FN fishing until July 15 (when BTW, some of the more threatened runs will be in the river & ripe for exploitation) he has let no less than SEVEN openings for targeting on threatened / endangered Chinook runs since mid April.

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/abor-autoc/UpperFraser/UMFPrevOpenTimes-eng.pdf

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/PDFs/CeremonialOpeningTimes_Previous.pdf

Of course there is zero accountability regarding the numbers those openings removed and from which endangered stock.

But hey, at least we got those damn sporties and commercial guys off the water, even if they don't catch the runs in question to any measurable degree.

Canadian Government HYPOCRISY at it's finest... :roll:

And folks wonder why we have difficulty believing anything they have to say...

Sadly - Nog

[boxhitch]

From reading your link it looks like DFO had data and made recomendations as long as 10 years ago that changes had to be made. Looks like they were ignored.
So if DFO can't even get action from above, who can

Things look ripe for a class action lawsuit

[IronNoggin]

Well worth the watch!!


https://www.facebook.com/robert.alcock.88/videos/10155999435322307/

[eric]

Looking back in history, doesn't seem like any level of Government has done anything to change the course of this fishery collapse.
Kinda like the East Coast Cod fishery.
Governments on all levels deserve a kick in the groin...

[303savage]

Hmmm, I wonder if the salmon are being depleted in the salt water or are disappearing on their way to the spawning grounds.

[IronNoggin]

Something smells fishy

Nothing infuriates me more than when a politician claims to be "following the science" and then goes against it—when he/she claims to be fighting for the environment while at the same time cutting funding to the very programs that support it.

On Wednesday, May 1, I travelled to North Vancouver along with other Whistler and Squamish residents to attend a protest organized by Whistler local Dave Brown against the recent extensive closures of recreational salmon fisheries in our waters.
The turnout was beyond expectations with more than 200 supporters and multiple TV and radio crews in attendance in front of (federal) Fisheries Minister Jonathan Wilkinson's office.
Speakers representing recreational fishermen and women, charter companies and local businesses expressed their support for protecting salmon populations, but their dismay at the lack of science-based decisions and real action in addressing the issues.

As a former environmental scientist and a recreational fisherman, it was deeply frustrating to have our Liberal Fisheries Minister ignore his own department's science and make a decision to completely shut down retention of Chinook salmon on the majority of the South Coast of B.C. until July 31.
This decision will do little to protect the early Fraser Chinook populations of concern; Department of Fisheries and Oceans' (DFO) own DNA data shows recreational anglers catch 0.63 per cent of these Chinook stocks while there are numerous other healthy Chinook populations in our local waters, that should be open to retention.
This spring, the Chinook salmon fishing has been nothing short of spectacular prior to this closure. This closure is severely impacting B.C. coastal communities and business—the very people who care deeply about healthy salmon populations. This is a missed opportunity to put in place a concrete, funded plan that would actually help the Fraser River Chinook populations, rather than (only) giv(ing) the appearance of doing something.
Interestingly, the public fishery in B.C. is a $1.1-billion industry and the largest economic contributor of all the fisheries, supporting 9,000 jobs. However, we catch less than 15 per cent of halibut and 10 per cent of salmon coastwide, and less than four per cent of total fish harvested in B.C.
I want to see Fisheries Minister Wilkinson put into action a recovery plan for early Fraser Chinook that includes Chinook predator control, habitat protection and rehabilitation, key hatchery enhancement as well as adequate funding for fisheries officers and habitat staff.

Attacking recreational anglers under the guise of conservation is a thinly veiled attempt at gaining political favour that inflicts serious harm to the B.C. economy and coastal communities, does not enhance the early Fraser River Chinook salmon stocks and side steps the need to take real and meaningful action.

Be very wary when your elected officials claim to be "following the science."

Mark Steffens // Whistler

https://m.piquenewsmagazine.com/whistler/letters-to-the-editor-for-the-week-of-may-9/Content?oid=13827008

[ratherbefishin]

After doing nothing to enhance the salmon stocks ( the volunteers did that)You can be sure the Liberals weighed the consequences of losing a few votes by shutting down the recreational salmon fishery and decided the impact would be minimal.If Fraser River Chinook stocks were in jeoprody,then shut down the whole river ....for EVERYBODY.And don’t talk about ‘leadership’ when you haven’t provided any..There was s an election this fall,and that’s the ONLY time politicians listen ,so DON’T waste your opportunity.Demand answers and VOTE,this idea of only 30 or 40 % vote turnout is rediclous

[tubby]

The Fraser salmon stocks seem to go missing between Steveston and Spuzzum.

[ratherbefishin]

If the FN themselves were concerned about ensuring chinook for their own future generations ,they would be voluntarily curtailing their subsistence fishery and stopping selling fish to non natives

[IronNoggin]

Two more in river Chinook FN openings for five days each just ending. Or are they?


https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/abor-autoc/UpperFraser/UMFOpenTimes-eng.htm

[NChunter]

https://www.canada.ca/en/fisheries-oceans/news/2019/05/government-of-canada-announces-enhanced-measures-for-protecting-british-columbias-southern-resident-killer-whales.html

Srkw closures just announced ��

[303savage]

The fisheries can shut down all the salmon fishing in the salt water and it won't do a damn bit of good if they don't control the native nets in the rivers. I'm pretty sure that the natives didn't have nylon nets or power boats before we came.

[ElectricDyck]

The fisheries can shut down all the salmon fishing in the salt water and it won't do a damn bit of good if they don't control the native nets in the rivers. I'm pretty sure that the natives didn't have nylon nets or power boats before we came.

Or forklifts and 4 foot totes lol

[Jack Russell]

Interim Sanctuary Zones – To maximize protections in three key foraging areas, interim sanctuary zones will be created off Pender Island, Saturna Island and at Swiftsure Bank. In addition to fishery closures, no vessel traffic will be permitted in these areas from June 1 to October 31, subject to certain exceptions for emergency and Indigenous vessels.



The Government of Canada will be entering into an agreement with the Pacific Whale Watch Association who will refrain from offering tours on Southern Resident killer whales and will commit to taking other stewardship actions. This commitment will also allow them to approach other types of killer whales to a distance of 200 metres in the area.

Can anyone tell me the difference between a SRKW and "other types of killer whales"? What kind of agreement was reached? Anyone know details?

[scoutlt1]

WTF is an "Indigenous vessel"??

[Wild one]

Or forklifts and 4 foot totes lol

Harrison river mouth by chance

[Edward Teach]

WTF is an "Indigenous vessel"??

A canoe?

****************************

WTF is this 10 character BS?!?

[Ohwildwon]

Shutting down Swift Sure Bank is the nail in the coffin.

What a pathetic ***cin joke.

Hope someone losses it and takes it out on one of these lipstick pigs

[ratherbefishin]

Tissue samples taken from salmon off sooke PROVED the vast majority were American hatchery fish...nothing to do with the Fraser River runs...WHY are we shut down? Even these ‘exclusion zones’ to ‘protect the orcas feeding ‘ is nothing more than bowing to so called ‘environmentalists’ pressure ,in all my years fishing off sooke,the whales came right though the salmon fleet,they did not alter course, divert or go around....

[IronNoggin]

https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60351044_10156006663747307_320577995355979776_n.jp g?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=6d22f9fa3615ad99af81ba8cdddc5d3b&oe=5D65CC80

[ratherbefishin]

Please tell tell us more ....location,date

[IronNoggin]

Today. Granville Island. NO legal source whatsoever...
Still up at the end of the business day...
And yeah, reported... For whatever "good" that will do... :x

Nog

[ruby]

Albion test fishery catch is sold legally, as is any other test fishery

[scoutlt1]

This is unbelievable....

What a sad and pathetic way to "manage" a most wonderful resource.

Disgraceful.

[ratherbefishin]

That is the sort of evidence we need to put right in the DFO’s face and demand what they are doing about it .

[eric]

Does anyone buy at 50.00 a lb...Holy frak

[Onesock]

So where does this go from here. I will tell you where. I am going fishing!

[Iron Glove]

Does anyone buy at 50.00 a lb...Holy frak

Yup, that kinda crossed my mind too when I read that. :grin:

[IronNoggin]

This just in:

https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?attachments/upload_2019-5-12_9-40-22-png.45361/

[scott h]

Today. Granville Island. NO legal source whatsoever...
Still up at the end of the business day...
And yeah, reported... For whatever "good" that will do... :x

Nog
Do you happen to know the name of the shop selling the chinook?

[ratherbefishin]

Any and all verifiable evidence of illegal fishing / sales should be distributed as widely as possible ,including the media ,MPs, DFO , and called in to radio talk shows.Public pressure is all. We have,the Liberal Government is unlikely to do anything for fear of charges of ‘racism’

[IronNoggin]

Now we see the minister starting to feel the pressure. Can anyone recall a time when a fisheries minister provided an editorial piece prior to this?

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/op-ed/jonathan-wilkinson-together-lets-protect-fraser-chinook-salmon

His article is so full of spin and misdirection I'd hazard a guess one of Pierre's Idiot Child's scripters wrote it for him.

And, at the same time he releases that drivel, he also opens up two more FIVE DAY openings for FN's on endangered stocks: :-(

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/abor-autoc/UpperFraser/UMFOpenTimes-eng.htm

What a bloody mess...

Nog

[IronNoggin]

Two more, week long FN openings for Chinook just granted on the Fraser.

Brings us to a total of a dozen openings for them since taking pretty well everyone else off the water...

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/abor-autoc/UpperFraser/UMFPrevOpenTimes-eng.pdf

[ratherbefishin]

Who is granting these opening on ‘endangered’Chinook ?what is the rational behind it?

[IronNoggin]

Who is granting these opening on ‘endangered’Chinook ?

DFO.


what is the rational behind it?

Reconciliation & UNDRIP are what the government spews while doing this.
In actuality, it is an appeasement of sorts to try and win back pissed off FN votes.
And it will not work.

Simply makes a running joke of all the minister's bleatings regarding "conservation". :roll:

Nog

[Onesock]

This is complete and utter bullshit!

[ratherbefishin]

How about an opening for the rest of us? I would certainly like some ‘truth’ and ‘reconciliation’ for the way they completely blew our Chinook by doing NOTHING

[IronNoggin]

Now up to SIXTEEN Openings. This time the Lower. The 24 hour canyon opening will be nothing short of a slaughter.


https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?attachments/upload_2019-5-15_14-2-4-png.45401/

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/PDFs/CeremonialOpeningTimes.pdf

[ElectricDyck]

Someone needs to head down there, film it, ask some questions about sustainability and responsibility and put it on social media..

[IronNoggin]

Someone needs to head down there, film it, ask some questions about sustainability and responsibility and put it on social media..

Likely pretty bloody dangerous methinks.

Just posted this on Wilkinson's FB Page:

Hasn't even been a month, yet SIXTEEN openings you have let, many of them a week's long duration, on the most endangered runs of Chinook the Fraser has??!! That works out to nets in the water more often than not since you told us all that was the EXACT reason you were forcing everyone else off the water!? You are indeed "rising the bar" as you so eloquently put it. In the highest achievable level of HYPOCRISY possible that is. :-

Nog

[IronNoggin]

Make that SEVENTEEN (see previous link above) as another canyon 24 hour opening was just announced.


Starting to get the gist of this bullshit yet? :mad:


Nog

[Onesock]

Can someone there call a TV station about this?

[Onesock]

where is the BCWF when this is going on?

[40incher]

where is the BCWF when this is going on?


The BCWF is a non-entity that seems only concerned with getting along with the bureaucrats as a means to an end. This has been going on for quite some time now. Too many people involved with consulting companies hoping to cash in.

Perhaps the recent change in chairmanship will give 'em some balls … we'll see.

[Onesock]

The Indians have a commercial troller working Kitty Coleman beach. Theyhave been reported and no one has showed up yet!!!!

[ratherbefishin]

Nor will they...the liberals appear to be quite happy to sacrifice the recreational salmon industry in order to promote their ‘Truth and Reconciliation’ agenda,costs them nothing

got to thinking ,and chatting with a local fishing column writer, one solution for FN harvesting salmon might be what they do in Alaska-fish wheels that allow them to release unharmed non targeted species.But one thing is certain, if there are going to be fish to harvest by FN or everybody else,the whole process needs to be renegotiated with conservation ,not ‘rights’ being the guiding principle.I have no issue with subsistence harvesting,I have a big issue with selling salmon.Reasonable quotas for subsistence need to be in place based on actual consumption,not selling fish.10 or 20 Chinook per person annually is a lot of salmon to eat.Nobody can eat hundreds of fish...

[IronNoggin]

This post is for any that suggest the FN's have a "right" to these endangered fish.
They do not.
Conservation trumps all (or is supposed to).

NO FN has the so-called right to fish any run into extinction.
And NO government has any call openly supporting them to do so.
What we are witnessing now is a complete travesty on both parts!

Any that wish to educate themselves as to just how low some of the numbers are, have a read:

http://www.frafs.ca/sites/default/files2/Day 1 2019 Fraser River Chinook Conservation Measures.pdf (http://www.frafs.ca/sites/default/files2/Day%201%202019%20Fraser%20River%20Chinook%20Conser vation%20Measures.pdf)

[Wild one]

This situation is just straight up BS and the more I read your up dates Nog the more disgusted with DFO and the govt

This is not about conservation

[IronNoggin]

... This is not about conservation

It never was. That is simply their bullshit excuse. :mad:

Nog

[ratherbefishin]

In my opinion it was just a politically correct easy fix for a long standing problem for which the Liberals wil take credit that cost them nothing.Watch for Justin’s smiling face in a photo op on the election trail

[Spy]

The Indians have a commercial troller working Kitty Coleman beach. Theyhave been reported and no one has showed up yet!!!!
Ok everyone with a boat that fishes In this area ^^^^ Needs to get out there take video, phone DFO the cops ect and tell them there will be a confrontation if they don’t get their assses out there ASAP. Phone all news channels, ect this is a BC problem **** the feds.

Or we all just go fishing, ASWELL and tell them the DFO to shove their fines up their asses! Pretty hard to police if we all just say **** it ?

[40incher]

This situation is just straight up BS and the more I read your up dates Nog the more disgusted with DFO and the govt

This is not about conservation


Nothing is about conservation anymore … it's all about who can spin the best bullshit! People should realize where this has come from though.

This has a lot to do with all the false prophets pushing their own agenda with chicken little fearmongering and the like-minded bureaucrats who lick their butts. Sierra Club, SPCA, Steelhead Society, WWF, Bear-Viewing Companies, etc … You all should be proud!!

The Indians are just taking advantage of all the phoney conservation tactics of the aforementioned.

[ratherbefishin]

Nobody seems to get it that unless we all work together,the problem of who gets what will be irrelevant- there will be no more salmon

[Walking Buffalo]

Nobody seems to get it that unless we all work together,the problem of who gets what will be irrelevant- there will be no more salmon

Everybody gets that.

It's just that some know that if they don't (work together), when the smoke clears, they will have the whole pie for themselves.

[guest]

Again I will say......
Without Accountability by ALL including FNs we will never see Sustainability.......there will be Zero fish for them too.
Report the people you know buying black market fish.
Pissed!

[Walking Buffalo]

Again I will say......
Without Accountability by ALL including FNs we will never see Sustainability.......there will be Zero fish for them too.
Report the people you know buying black market fish.
Pissed!

The fish may get wiped out, but only for a while.
The fish will come back or be put back.
While likely not containing Native genes, the fish will be wholly Native.

This is friggen' tic-tac-toe, not chess.

[303savage]

Does the department of fisheries have any idea how many fish the native nets catch?

[Onesock]

DFO say there is an observer with every boat fishing on the Fraser. Maybe every legal boat!

[Jack Russell]

DFO say there is an observer with every boat fishing on the Fraser. Maybe every legal boat!

This is not accurate. At best FN have an FN monitor at a landing site.

[IronNoggin]

DFO say there is an observer with every boat fishing on the Fraser. Maybe every legal boat!

Actually, by DFO's own admission, the vast majority of both the river and the FN fisheries are "not monitored":

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/abor-autoc/UpperFraser/UMFHarvestReport-eng.htm


Minister isn't doing enough, quickly enough, to protect Chinook salmon

It is troubling and at an unnecessary cost to the public fishery when it is the optics of the actions that are more important than the expected effects.

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/op-ed/owen-bird-minister-isnt-doing-enough-quickly-enough-to-protect-chinook-salmon

[IronNoggin]

Funding denial comes on the heels of fishing closures

The letter is misleading in that every hatchery request was denied, Saunders said.

The denial of funding comes on the heels of other announcements by the federal government this spring that have severely limited salmon fishing in the region and have dealt lethal blows to several fishing charter businesses in the region.

“When the fishing closures were announced, I can tell you that I lost $250,000 in donations for the project. People were just at rock-bottom and it was hard to generate any enthusiasm for our project. I can’t imagine what this latest announcement is going to do,” Saunders said.

https://www.sookenewsmirror.com/news/federal-government-actions-hurt-sooke-hatchery-fundraising-efforts/

[SPEYMAN]

How many Canadians buy tidal fishing licenses? How many people live in Canada? The people that find these regulation o.k. or don't have any knowledge, have been told by the Federal Fisheries that this move will save the Orcas and the Chinook Salmon that are going extinct.

Who do you think the Federal Government will get to vote for them? The Leaf licking, tree hugging, PETA and Green Peace or a few Canadians that like to eat fish. The numbers are very clear.

[Gumsehwah]

I'm jot going to pretend to know the science however on the topic of predators, which I'm well aware of the seal/sea lions issue one I've heard discussed quite a bit but never mentioned online is the bull trout populations.

I'm not sure if there is any real data to support that they do impact populations, but the squamish river fisheries blow for salmon these days and it's not hard to catch a bully from what I've seen.

You can't keep Bullies or Dollies up here, and on most days, you are hard pressed to NOT catch them.

[Gumsehwah]

New thought of the day........ something I eluded to earlier.....

hatchery heads have been sent to DFO forever.... Sooke has a good deal of hatchery fish that get caught..... almost 100% come from the good old USA.... if they are trying to save the Fraser Chinook... these are not those fish.
and correct me if I'm wrong, but hatcheries have all but stopped clipping fish in most systems.... Why cant places like this keep hatchery fish? Fish they know are not from this system... or country

Hatcheries are shutting down or have already been shut down in this corner of the province. Is the Federal government actually TRYING to destroy the fishery?

[Gumsehwah]

Let us not forget that it is way cheaper for the government to shut down all fishing around the coast than to have people out patrolling smaller areas, or maintaining hatcheries.

[835]

Yep, we have said that all along...... Cheap to Close a fishery....

[IronNoggin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iaUahXWmn4

[Spy]

Any lawsuits yet?

[IronNoggin]

Any lawsuits yet?

Not yet...

[SPEYMAN]

"United we stand...divided we fall". The Federal Government has done a great job of dividing the fishing community. Why is it some can fish and others can't? If they feel that there needs to be closure, then close it for all. Stop playing politics with our resources. There have been no definite answers and a lot of questions. Get rid of the present government and make it clear to the new that things must change.

[IronNoggin]

FORTY-ONE FN in-river Openings to date on the most threatened runs of Chinook the Fraser has since Wilkinson imposed the restrictions.

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/abor-autoc/UpperFraser/UMFPrevOpenTimes-eng.htm

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CeremonialOpeningTimes_Previous.html

In addition to an ongoing full blown FN Troll Fishery (with no numbers cap) in Area G waters that the latter were forced off of due to "conservation concerns".

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=221391&ID=all

And on top of that, the letter the Minister sent around today no longer even attempts to disguise the re-allocation aspect:

“In addition, new restrictions in commercial and recreational fisheries are intended to support increased availability of not at risk Summer 41 Chinook for First Nations fisheries harvest opportunities during August and September.”

https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?attachments/fraser-river-chinook-management-letter-june-2019-final-pdf.45727/

Rather obvious to anyone with eyes this is a complete travesty. :evil:

Nog

[Spy]

FORTY-ONE FN in-river Openings to date on the most threatened runs of Chinook the Fraser has since Wilkinson imposed the restrictions.

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/abor-autoc/UpperFraser/UMFPrevOpenTimes-eng.htm

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CeremonialOpeningTimes_Previous.html

In addition to an ongoing full blown FN Troll Fishery (with no numbers cap) in Area G waters that the latter were forced off of due to "conservation concerns".

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=221391&ID=all

And on top of that, the letter the Minister sent around today no longer even attempts to disguise the re-allocation aspect:

“In addition, new restrictions in commercial and recreational fisheries are intended to support increased availability of not at risk Summer 41 Chinook for First Nations fisheries harvest opportunities during August and September.”

https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?attachments/fraser-river-chinook-management-letter-june-2019-final-pdf.45727/

Rather obvious to anyone with eyes this is a complete travesty. :evil:

Nog
They know most fishermen are white concervitive men they are blatantly given us then shaft I’m saying go out and fish I think I might jus
t go rent a boat and go catch some salmon **** the gov this is not a democracy and is wrong I say these closures are unconstitutional you can’t favour some people over others

[steel_ram]

Is there any figures on the catch results of these fisheries?

[IronNoggin]

Is there any figures on the catch results of these fisheries?

The government listed results would suggest that these 41 openings have produced less than two dozen springs total. Witnesses report more than that in a single drift just a short time ago. Under reporting and non-compliance has always been an issue. Under the stress of today, it appears to have gotten much worse (intentionally I believe).

.................................................. .................................................. ...............

Victor says salmon was once so abundant, there would be three or four fish barbeques in the community every weekend throughout summer.

And they wonder where the fish went??

“I can tell you, our value on the fish is much more than any recreational or commercial fish they catch,” he said.

So the fish sold roadside out of the back of a truck is more valuable than troll or recreational caught? Really??

But if they catch one fish that’s Fraser-bound, that’s enough. You compromise the constitutional priority, in my mind.”

Locked down the entire South Coast damn near, while recognizing the majority of those fisheries had no impact.
Under threat that they would fish the stocks of concern into extinction should they not get their way.
And now whine for even more...

Victor says that to uphold constitutional priority, DFO shouldn’t allow any fisheries, catch-and-release or otherwise, until after Indigenous fisheries have theirs.

He also says that Canada should consider giving control of commercial fishing to Indigenous Peoples, who have fished the same populations for millennia.

Bottom Line: We want it ALL, and we want it NOW!

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2019/06/05/features/he-lives-share-his-salmon-faces-tighter-regulations-and-waning-fish-stocks

[IronNoggin]

https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?attachments/upload_2019-6-8_13-40-36-png.45736/


https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?attachments/upload_2019-6-8_13-44-1-png.45737/


Those numbers are the ones reported. Since even the department acknowledges serious under reporting and non-compliance, what are they actually??

Nog

[IronNoggin]

Unfortunately due to mechanical difficulties (damn front differential) I was unable to attend today's scheduled meeting with Conservative MP Calkins (Federal Standing Committee on Fisheries) & Staff.

However two of our Directors did make it there.They both suggested the discussions were very positive, and that Blaine was both attentive and supportive.They also noted that he still requires some additional education regarding fisheries matters in BC, but was quick to grasp what they laid out in that regard for him.

I believe we both have an ally in MP Calkins. I will be following up directly with him in the next couple of days as a consequence. Although it was disappointing MP Doherty could not make this trip, his schedule at this point simply precluded that. I will be following up with Doherty in the next few days as well.

Overall the impression was that there is genuine concern, and a willingness to work with both the recreational and commercial troll sector in moving forward. Hell of a different impression than Wilkinson and the lieberals have left us with.

On the related matter, the so-called Impact Study has been settled - frankly it does not exist. I will be following up on that issue as it is a rather serious offense of lying to a government committee by Department of Fisheries and Oceans Paul Gillis, Director General, Strategic Policy.

Cheers, Nog

[IronNoggin]

The fishing restrictions imposed by the federal Fisheries Department this spring has already had a devastating effect on businesses, according to a survey conducted by the Port Renfrew Chamber of Commerce.


https://www.sookenewsmirror.com/news/fish-closure-in-port-renfrew-has-endangered-more-than-40-per-cent-of-businesses/

[steel_ram]

Why don't they just open it? The starving killer whales are not in the JdF. A few phone calls and an announcement and it's done. . . . Oh yeah, we're not talking about the private sector.

[REMINGTON JIM]

No grizzly hunting, no moose in region 5, no chinook fishing. The list will get longer... This province is a pretty sad f*****g place to live if you enjoy hunting and fishing.

Unless your Indian Then your GOLDEN ! :mad: RJ

[IronNoggin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68eW47BEkE8&t=2s

[IronNoggin]

https://scontent.fyvr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/65867455_2172271946218920_4682443010468741120_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&_nc_eui2=AeHQg-DxQPtUtLfGJ7Wk1iK9cjh0fF07rqALZI_FwyK_XdkhNQyBI0WB teZILeq5zVjzX_1kMSgOTrA6fzTBw7MD1zBsOiLDQXxBu-IAp87uZw&_nc_oc=AQlkV-VAYS27jIwVvBWVnEpSGCVyqLIX__McFSBqDMxgBuFjDO_TM4Wc JPHG6JUbQw8&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr3-1.fna&oh=acdf307c1147eec926ec31c04c09b8a9&oe=5DAD9E8B

[guest]

Mine have been up since April 16/19 NOG.

Hard to believe how poorly this outfit has mismanaged our Coastlines. Yet it continues year after year.

[scoutlt1]

The DFO and those who dictate their "direction" should be taken to court to answer for their collective mismanagement for one of the best fisheries in the world.

Remember the Atlantic Cod when you think about the Pacific Salmon a few years from now....

F***ink disgraceful!! :evil:

[REMINGTON JIM]

The DFO and those who dictate their "direction" should be taken to court to answer for their collective mismanagement for one of the best fisheries in the world.

Remember the Atlantic Cod when you think about the Pacific Salmon a few years from now....

F***ink disgraceful!! :evil:

YUP ! you are correct and we pay these GUYs to F**K things up too ! :sad: :mad: RJ

[VI Blacktails]

Was out fishing halibut on the Swift Sure banks on Saturday and there must have been 40 commercial trollers out there.Is there that many natives or was there a opening?

[IronNoggin]

Was out fishing halibut on the Swift Sure banks on Saturday and there must have been 40 commercial trollers out there.Is there that many natives or was there a opening?

Hope you took a few pictures and reported that.

There are NO current openings for legitimate commercial troll, nor the preferred pets of DFO at this time whatsoever!

Did you happen to notice what and how their gear was deployed? Actually trolling with the lines / pigs (floats) out?

UnReal!
Nog

[Edward Teach]

Hope you took a few pictures and reported that.

There are NO current openings for legitimate commercial troll, nor the preferred pets of DFO at this time whatsoever!

Did you happen to notice what and how their gear was deployed? Actually trolling with the lines / pigs (floats) out?

UnReal!
Nog

Yeah they might have been shrimpers.
We messed up a few Gorbys when we were shrimping in the ditch. They'd come blasting out of Ukie and see all these commercial boats going back and forth and think "whoa, this must be where the FISH are at!" and throw their gear in the water. First of all we're TRAWLING, not trolling and second, I've got a quarter mile of rope behind me. Oh you think you're gonna tack across my stern with a bunch of troll gear? Heh. Got quite a few flashers and hoochies that year.

[IronNoggin]

A little slow out of the gate, but finally a report of some nature:

https://rachelblaney.ndp.ca/chinook-public-fishery-report

Unfortunately the Minister and his government could not care any less. :-(

Nog

[scoutlt1]

Wilkinson will be on CKNW just after 07:00

Maybe not the most enjoyable way to start your Sunday but......

[303savage]

Commercial fishing: Commercial troll fisheries for Chinook will be closed until August 20 in Northern BC, and August 1st on the West Coast of Vancouver Island to avoid impacting Fraser Chinook stocks and to support conservation priorities. Hmmm no mention of all the nets in the river when the salmon are heading for the spawning grounds.

[IronNoggin]

Wilkinson will be on CKNW just after 07:00


There are actually three segments of Jill Bennett's CKNW show that pertain to this matter:

Jason Benelli speaking in regard to the development of the situation, and the impacts on the recreational sector:

https://globalnews.ca/pages/audio-vault-cknw/?fbclid=IwAR1RrCxMqkzWGjLNphHt913hvyPVuHeQwdvRDyrI-4MYHUiMt5k96Cwu3kc


Jason Tonelli - July 6, 8:00 am, 15:20 time stamp

Minster Wilkinson's response wherein he publicly and on record LIES about the FN openings in the Fraser - simply said there have been none. DFO's own website indicates 94 in river FN gillnet openings since the restrictions were imposed (representing an effort of 587 gillnet days).
In typical politico diversion, he also refuses to answer several of the pointed questions, and deflects to other topics (just like his boss).


https://globalnews.ca/pages/audio-vault-cknw/?fbclid=IwAR1RrCxMqkzWGjLNphHt913hvyPVuHeQwdvRDyrI-4MYHUiMt5k96Cwu3kc

Wilkinson's Response: July 7, 7:00 am, 06:00 time stamp

Finally an open call-in session on the same topic:

https://globalnews.ca/pages/audio-vault-cknw/?fbclid=IwAR1RrCxMqkzWGjLNphHt913hvyPVuHeQwdvRDyrI-4MYHUiMt5k96Cwu3kc


Call / write in: July 7, 8:00 am, 33:20 time stamp

Worth a listen if this subject is of interest.

Nog

[scoutlt1]

I couldn't believe how many times Wilkinson said there are no openings on the Fraser for FN.... lying piece of sh*t!!

Jason is well spoken and addresses the issues very well. He's a great guy. I've fished with him numerous times when he guided up north and we've had some really good conversations. I'm glad he is speaking up!

Shame on the DFO, Wilkinson, and the leaders of the federal liberals!

[IronNoggin]

https://i.imgur.com/hhXfI1o.jpg

[IronNoggin]

DFO's site actually provides proof of their own Minister's LIES:

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/abor-autoc-eng.html

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CeremonialOpeningTimes_Previous.html

Disgusting.
Nog

[ElectricDyck]

Nice pic, simple, I emailed it around..

[IronNoggin]

Open Letter from the Sport Fishing Institute (SFI) to Wilkinson:

https://mailchi.mp/8c7db2691b7e/sfi-member-update-071019?e=d242420a33

Pretty much nails it from the recreational aspect.

Cheers,
Nog

[Beachcomber]

^ Good letter. Expect it will be met with silence.

[IronNoggin]

^ Good letter. Expect it will be met with silence.

As do I.
The Minister has refused to answer both the Recreational and Commercial Sector reps' emails & letters, and manages to find something else to do when any type of meeting is suggested. :roll:

I don't see that changing now.
How can anyone this arrogant expect to win a BC riding when he just killed off (actually gave away) our fishing out here?
UnReal! :evil:

Nog

[ratherbefishin]

There IS one thing we CAN do and that is VOTE ....shouldn’t be able to buy a fishing or licence without proof you voted

[IronNoggin]

Next Up:

"Currently, First Nations food, social and ceremonial (FSC) sockeye fisheries are closed due a 4 week window closure to protect Early Stuart and the earlier timed Early Summer run stocks. Very limited fishing opportunities directed at Chinook salmon for ceremonial purposes have occurred to date. The start-up of sockeye directed FSC fisheries is not anticipated before late July or early August depending upon location and will be based on the identification of sockeye TAC for Early Summers or Summers, in-season run-timing information, as well as considerations as a result of the slide at Big Bar. FSC fishers in marine approach areas as well as the Fraser River are requested to check for the opening times and any restrictions in their local area. Commercial and recreational fisheries are not anticipated to begin until the end of July or August depending on the identification of commercial TAC. "

Lies upon compounded lies upon compounded lies.

If we in BC elect a single effing LIEberal this time around, I will be beyond CHOKED! :mad:

Nog

[Spy]

Open Letter from the Sport Fishing Institute (SFI) to Wilkinson:

https://mailchi.mp/8c7db2691b7e/sfi-member-update-071019?e=d242420a33

Pretty much nails it from the recreational aspect.

Cheers,
Nog



July 10, 2019










The Honourable Jonathan Wilkinson, MP
Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard
102 W 3 Street
North Vancouver, BC V7M 1E8

Dear Minister Wilkinson,
July 15th is an important date for recreational anglers across the southern BC coast. Not only does it note nearly 3 months since your announcement of unnecessarily restrictive Chinook non-retention measures in the south coast, it is on that day that many areas of the BC coastline’s world-famous Chinook salmon fishery move beyond rules implemented on April 16th. The change will help to mitigate some of the serious economic damage that’s resulted yet for many coastal communities and areas, notably Juan de Fuca Strait and southern Georgia Strait, the restrictions remain at non-retention until the end of the month.

While those important areas remain closed, the Fraser River will open on the 15th for harvest of Chinook and stocks of concern. Considering the significantly better than expected returns to the Fraser River, opportunity for retention of either Chinook or hatchery Chinook should be permitted in Georgia and Juan de Fuca Strait at the same time, if not immediately. An adjustment recognizing the better than anticipated returns would reduce the economic harm to the public fishery and misconceptions about the abundance of Chinook salmon in the southern coast.

The damage to reputation and economy of small communities and to the two largest angling communities in the province, Victoria and Vancouver, poses a significant and long-lasting challenge. There are businesses closing, staff laid off, uncertainty and doubt in the marketplace for the future and all this while returns of Chinook to the Fraser River are far in excess of what was predicted. Add that reports of marine abundance of hatchery Chinook in the southern Georgia Strait are described as the best in 20 years.

Despite these positive developments, your department has not provided response or rationale or evidence of adaptability. In meetings held with the SFI and other members of the public angling community, you committed to have your department provide a review and comment on several proposals that would allow for opportunity for the public fishery and not compromise conservation objectives. Rather than flexibility or an explanation, the department has stood silently by a set of rules that are ineffective and unnecessary from a conservation perspective.
Why are the department’s actions unnecessarily harsh? Because there has always been an option to allow recreational anglers to retain a hatchery produced Chinook that would not impact stocks of concern. This opportunity to retain hatchery fish would allow the public fishery and the businesses that support it to have some chance to salvage reputation. Instead, the media and department have chosen to focus only on the sensational details and have created a narrative that has led the public to believe that there are no fish or there is no fishing on coastal BC. This, of course could not be further from the truth. The coast is enjoying, as noted earlier, some of the best fishing for Chinook in recent memory. The public fishery and small communities would greatly benefit from a more accurate depiction of what is happening on our coast. And, opportunity to retain hatchery Chinook would have a significant impact on misconceptions.

All hatchery Chinook produced in the US are easily identifiable on the fishing grounds, as they are “marked” by removal of the non-functional adipose fin. In Canada, only about 10% of our hatchery produced Chinook are marked in this way. As you know, under the current non-retention regime anglers are still allowed to fish for Chinook but anglers cannot keep a Chinook that was produced for harvest and is more than likely from WA state.

To make the lack of flexibility in DFO’s management approach even harder to understand, the test fisheries on the Fraser River indicate 2019 returns well above the dire predictions of the spring. The numbers have placed these stocks at a level of “moderate abundance” compared to historic returns. Not “low abundance”, and certainly not “critically low abundance”, but a moderate return based on historical records. The dramatic increase in abundance is showing up all over the coast, even as far south as California and is likely a function of increased marine survival due to improved ocean conditions. Yet retention of Chinook that are produced to be caught is still not allowed?

The rockslide on the Fraser River is of great concern to all of us. We are hopeful that the impacts of the slide will not pose long term challenges to Chinook and Sockeye migration. However, it is important to note that hatchery stocks of Chinook are not present in the Fraser above this obstacle. The timing of tidal non-retention was to allow those Fraser River Chinook stocks to pass in to the river. The slide should have no bearing on hatchery Chinook retention or regulations in tidal waters.

When the SFI met with you in April and May, you explained it was the departments intent to honour limited food and ceremonial fisheries in the river. The SFI and representatives of the public fishery have never questioned the importance of meeting conservation objectives and support the right of First Nations to access Chinook for important ceremonies and to celebrate culture. So, it came as a disappointment that on a radio interview this past Sunday you explained that constitutionally guaranteed First Nations Food, Social and Ceremonial fisheries were closed, with no gill nets permitted, and used that to explain the necessity for the public fishery to suffer a similar fate through non-retention. The radio interviewer made several attempts to seek clarification on this point and your response remained the same. Yet, according to records posted on the DFO website, there have been over 90 gill net openings on the Fraser River that not only coincide with the presence of the endangered stocks of concern but target them. As the Minister responsible for the fishery, it is deeply troubling that you could make such inaccurate statements and mislead the public on a matter of key importance.

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The time is now overdue to accept that hard working Canadian families are suffering needlessly by your departments unwillingness to acknowledge that the dire predictions of the spring were not accurate. And, that conservation objectives can be met while also allowing retention of marked hatchery Chinook in the public fishery. We urge you to rethink the misguided approach, allow for FSC fisheries to continue with relaxed restrictions, and allow for retention of hatchery produced Chinook in tidal waters in BC as soon as possible. These changes, while overdue, will help to demonstrate that your department is willing to adapt to change and provides encouragement and confidence for planning in 2020. In addition, it is critical that discussion between all sectors and the department begin regarding mark selective fisheries, hatchery production, marking practices in Canada and middle and long-term habitat, enhancement, recovery and restoration work.

A first and immediate action should be to amend measures to all effected areas reflecting the better-than-anticipated returns to allow for Chinook or marked hatchery Chinook retention as soon as possible or by July 15. While severe damage has already occurred, the effects of this change might help businesses survive and to work on plans for the future.

In April you told the SFI that you understood the sense of urgency and committed to looking at additional opportunities. Since then we and others in the community have proposed solutions that would help the public fishery sector and would not measurably increase or change risk to the stocks of concern. The department’s response has been to continually delay and defer without explanation. Every day is critical, and we need your help and attention to save BC public fishery business and culture now.

We continue to await your response.

Sincerely,

SPORT FISHING INSTITUTE OF BC
https://gallery.mailchimp.com/efe5de6efa001c46a0c5b48af/images/a49ed766-2184-46a8-8f61-bdc75aff3f0a.jpg
Robert Alcock,
President

CC:

Rebecca Reid, Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Fiona Simons, Pacific Desk, Office of the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and Canadian Coast Guard