Caribou and habitat.

[horshur]

I post this to illustrate a reality...the main pic in article. Look at the standing forest the”Caribou Habitat “ see the reds...look at the greys. Extrapolate. The adjacent forest is 30% dead . Balsam beetle typically involves 10% of stand per year 1% of the spruce..so in this case six years it is a dead stand unless this winters cold killed the beetle...regardless the stand is already nearly half dead and not optimal Caribou habitat currently and even less so in a short time...don’t be blind to the reality of the picture and current situation...it is an emotion picture but actually really look at it...this is actually happening....blame climate change or fire suppression or just natural succession.

https://thenarwhal.ca/b-c-approves-314-new-cutblocks-in-endangered-caribou-habitat-over-last-five-months/

[Treed]

Having flown forest health flights for the last fifteen years... Balsam bark beetle is typically less than .05% of a stand. What we are seeing is not typical but is our new reality. Don’t worry about the fires, the true harbingers of doom are the bugs, pathogens, and stress on trees - but the fires will follow. Unbelievable the state of so many of our forests. Yellow cedar decline on the central coast due to low snow packs, warming periods and frosts has killed hundreds of thousands of hectares and nobody even knows about it except for a few forest health experts. Look at the dead top cedar all up the island hwy due to summer droughts. I was on Haida Gwaii this summer and couldn’t believe how extensive the die back was of 300 year old cedar - drought related I think. I was also in Tweedsmiur this summer, the epi-centre of the pine beetle. What a waste land of dead trees. Pine beetle, white bark pine and blister rust, spruce bark beetle, balsam bark beetle, and fire. Moose sign was so absent it was shocking. Don’t get me started on the poor health of all the pine plantations in the interior due to planting densities and rusts. Our forests are in worse shape than ever and after over a decade of minimal investment in inventory, we dont have a clue how empty the cupboard is. Combine this with salvage harvesting, and fires, no wonder ungulate populations are in flux.

[gcreek]

Ms. Dawe is very adept at skewing facts to further her cause. She was one of the main mouthpieces condemning predator contests last week. She fails to add or recognize the true fact that predators are the main enemy of caribou and all other ungulates dwindling populations in the last 20 years.

[Treed]

Gcreek, I went on my rant and still haven’t read the article. Predators are hammering them because they can travel farther and faster on our roads, hunt more effectively because they can see across a cutblock or down a cut line, and habitat is a mess. It’s habitat change that is driving this cycle of predation and we are the ones doing the driving. I’m bad at following threads, so if I don’t reply I’m not ignoring you!...on purpose

[gcreek]

Gcreek, I went on my rant and still haven’t read the article. Predators are hammering them because they can travel farther and faster on our roads, hunt more effectively because they can see across a cutblock or down a cut line, and habitat is a mess. It’s habitat change that is driving this cycle of predation and we are the ones doing the driving. I’m bad at following threads, so if I don’t reply I’m not ignoring you!...on purpose


So, where were all these logging and mining and oil roads and habitat destruction and clearcuts back in the 40's and early 50's when wolves last nearly wiped out the ungulate herds?

The Federal govt. stepped in and poisoned the crap out of the wolves in the name of saving sustenance animals for the native population. Do a little more homework on this.

If our governments weren't so pussy whipped by the bleeding heart public in order to garner votes, this job would have been done 15 years ago.

[.264winmag]

So, where were all these logging and mining and oil roads and habitat destruction and clearcuts back in the 40's and early 50's when wolves last nearly wiped out the ungulate herds?

The Federal govt. stepped in and poisoned the crap out of the wolves in the name of saving sustenance animals for the native population. Do a little more homework on this.

If our governments weren't so pussy whipped by the bleeding heart public in order to garner votes, this job would have been done 15 years ago.

Winner winner chicken dinner. Bring back the tainted meat folks, it's the only sensible and real solution. Hunt and trap em all you want, you need something effective 24/7/365.

[Lionhill]

Then why do this?

https://www.wildernesscommittee.org/news/bc-approves-314-cutblocks-caribou-critical-habitat-while-negotiating-conservation-plans?fbclid=IwAR3UZg5zk3Jy3NUPMXYIz3Q8icx1ON1nBNT nyBJ3Y1nVEdzbMTivXrenuy8
B.C. approves 314 cutblocks in caribou critical habitat while negotiating conservation plans

[gcreek]

Then why do this?

https://www.wildernesscommittee.org/news/bc-approves-314-cutblocks-caribou-critical-habitat-while-negotiating-conservation-plans?fbclid=IwAR3UZg5zk3Jy3NUPMXYIz3Q8icx1ON1nBNT nyBJ3Y1nVEdzbMTivXrenuy8
B.C. approves 314 cutblocks in caribou critical habitat while negotiating conservation plans




Why not? A big share of this province's timber is dead, dying and falling over. Better to get new growth coming and not burn the rest of the province.

[tigrr]

The caribou down by Crooked lake don't have a chance either. Tracks of 8 wolves going up the mountains around them. Never saw a live one, just tracks. We could hear them howling at night though.

[horshur]

I’m not sure how they designated this critical habitat because you can’t log in designated caribou areas..there are also modified harvest areas for Caribou where they have retention strategies... there must be other rational or perhaps other organizations opinion of critical habitat.?

for Bc hunters getting behind current caribou management strategies is a double edge sword because maintaining high moose harvest to keep low moose inventories is a main component of the plans..all the while hunters are crying fowl of the loss of moose opportunity. Cause you see moose and deer bring and support the wolves...it really is a familiar song.

[Wild one]

Roads where the roads are packed or plowed in the winter aside I keep hearing site lines from clear cuts being an issue with predators

Now consider this with the increase in forest fires one theory is that the forest lacks breaks and density of trees increased do to how we replant/fight fires. Many also blame the lack of fire and forest density as a major decline in MD numbers. So healthy habitat seems to call for more open areas to improve ungulates as well

So what direction do we need to go with habitat because it seems like there is some contradiction? Some may want to consider habitat is only one factor to BCs issues and can’t be the only focus to turning things around

[gcreek]

Roads where the roads are packed or plowed in the winter aside I keep hearing site lines from clear cuts being an issue with predators

Now consider this with the increase in forest fires one theory is that the forest lacks breaks and density of trees increased do to how we replant/fight fires. Many also blame the lack of fire and forest density as a major decline in MD numbers. So healthy habitat seems to call for more open areas to improve ungulates as well

So what direction do we need to go with habitat because it seems like there is some contradiction? Some may want to consider habitat is only one factor to BCs issues and can’t be the only focus to turning things around

Any kind of habitat over run with predators does nothing for ungulates at all.

[Wild one]

Any kind of habitat over run with predators does nothing for ungulates at all.

Increaseing prey also has the results of increasing predators as well

What is needed is balance and that won’t be accomplished focusing on one issue and after balanced it needs effort to maintain it. Even focusing on preds the hot topic is always wolf but some might want to look into the large impact coyote, bears and cougars have. We preach habitat but each ungulate species thrives under different conditions so what is positive for one is negative for another. Could a huge part of the reason both elk and WT have increased their range is the habitat has been changed and now favours them. Some species are also less adapted to predation then others

Most are screaming about one issue like it will solve all of the issues faced by ungulates across BC. Now if only if people could see basically every issue brought forward is a factor and the level of importance to each varies across BC. Some issues are even no exist to some MUs and species

Yes predators are a major issue in areas but others habitat, poaching, past winters or FN harvest are the big factor.

[Bugle M In]

Having flown forest health flights for the last fifteen years... Balsam bark beetle is typically less than .05% of a stand. What we are seeing is not typical but is our new reality. Don’t worry about the fires, the true harbingers of doom are the bugs, pathogens, and stress on trees - but the fires will follow. Unbelievable the state of so many of our forests. Yellow cedar decline on the central coast due to low snow packs, warming periods and frosts has killed hundreds of thousands of hectares and nobody even knows about it except for a few forest health experts. Look at the dead top cedar all up the island hwy due to summer droughts. I was on Haida Gwaii this summer and couldn’t believe how extensive the die back was of 300 year old cedar - drought related I think. I was also in Tweedsmiur this summer, the epi-centre of the pine beetle. What a waste land of dead trees. Pine beetle, white bark pine and blister rust, spruce bark beetle, balsam bark beetle, and fire. Moose sign was so absent it was shocking. Don’t get me started on the poor health of all the pine plantations in the interior due to planting densities and rusts. Our forests are in worse shape than ever and after over a decade of minimal investment in inventory, we dont have a clue how empty the cupboard is. Combine this with salvage harvesting, and fires, no wonder ungulate populations are in flux.

This^^^^^
So many reasons for the state of our forests.
Beetle is a big one, and way worse than it ever was in history.
There was a time when we had cold winters, so global warming hasn't helped us, but did help the beetle accelerate like
it never has in the past.
Throw in hot summers with no rainfall, and some trees are stressed.

I see areas in the EK, that where hit by pine beetle, and the whole mountain of trees dropped in a windstorm like a post nuclear explosion.
Nothing can walk in it, and the only way to clean it up is thru fire or 100 years of sitting and rotting away.
Problem is, we know the area needs to burn, but there are a few human structures in the area, so when I fire does happen, they went in to suppress it!!??
This wasn't just 1 mountain, but several in the area, and some had some important migration trails from summer range to winter range.
I get the whole "cut it" before the "beetle kills it" mentality etc.
Truth is though, this isn't the true plan for forestry and logging as we had intended.
Liberites have been taken with cutting big areas to get to the good timber before it's dead.
Fire suppression still happens due to human structure loss AND also not losing the viable timber that could still be potentially harvested.
Explosion of Preds, and more than likely due to all the accelerated logging and access everywhere, and we got a big problem.

The forests are in "bad shape"....big time, all over the province.
Regaining our wildlife is goint to be "really hard"!
I doubt that even if we take the right steps, that it would take a good 30+ years to recover.

I just watched an area that has been logged for 30 years now, and each year cut blocks got bigger and the timber went down faster.
And yes, they try to replant over the years, BUT, now the area had a huge fire.
Much of the replanted areas are now again lost, not that they were a great way to restore the area in the first place.
So that area will now take 40 years at least to recover and that's in the areas that didn't burn too hot.
Meanwhile, after such devastation, the logging industry is still going to go in now and cut down the firs in the winter range that didn't get burnt and is the only remaking mature growth around for miles.
Yup, that's how bad it is.

It is so F'd up out there in a way we have never seen it before and way beyond the 50's.
This isn't about feed like many think, imo.
This is about habitat to evade and lay in, or winter in, and not being easily accessible to reach.
That's the real problems.
We just made it really easy for preds like wolves to exploit it.

And we have windfall everywhere, so movement at migration times is impossible thru timber.
So I guess creatures like Cariboo have no choice to walk thru these cutblocks which is easy pickings for wolves and such.

So yes, we can blame global warming for not killing beetles like in the past.
We can blame logging for access and large areas cut away because of the beetle.
We can thank the cutblocks and roads for easy wolf migration.
We can blame windfall on both beetle and some logging
We can thank human encroachment with development and housing for fire suppression, thus the windfall remains.

And we need to acknowledge that we are "not acknowledging" any of it as to why our game is missing or cant
repopulate!
We just keep going, we just keep cutting, we just keep putting out fires, and we keep pointing fingers.

[Wild one]

I wonder if the huge increase in deer fences on orchards and vineyards in region 8 has been a factor in some MUs for deer. Took away a food source and some are finding predators using them as a tool to catch prey

Not going to be an issue in many other areas

[Bugle M In]

I wonder if the huge increase in deer fences on orchards and vineyards in region 8 has been a factor in some MUs for deer. Took away a food source and some are finding predators using them as a tool to catch prey

Not going to be an issue in many other areas

Yup, the list of issues grows!
That's just another one to show how we have altered the landscape.
And, "how dare those creatures" actually come onto ranchland to graze!!
Everybody, everyone one of us is guilty in some form of other for the issues.

[Wild one]

Look into the study done in Yaha Tinda predators are a huge factor bears playing a much larger role than wolves. Elk actually changed migration routes closer trying to avoid predators

Habitat is pretty good and access is limited

things are not cut and dry

[happyhunter]

As far as I know the critical habitat is based of a computer model and not any kind of on the ground survey to actually determine if caribou exist in the area or not

[Bugle M In]

Look into the study done in Yaha Tinda predators are a huge factor bears playing a much larger role than wolves. Elk actually changed migration routes closer trying to avoid predators

Habitat is pretty good and access is limited

things are not cut and dry
I know, it's a very big "complex" issue/s.
But I suppose not all things can be completely corrected or "controlled".
Life is adversity, and always changing, especially out in the forests.
I suppose the only thing we can do is fix things we have done wrong and take control of them.
Other stuff just has to run it's course.
Wildfires will take care of some issues, but then again, it comes with issues long term itself.
Always changing, and hopefully we can evolve with it.
Otherwise we are doomed in ways we cant even yet begin to comprehend.
Where at a time on this planet that previous inhabitants have never experienced or could have imagined.
Not sure if we are smart enough, or should I say, willing enough to accept it and deal with it?

[Wild one]

It is complex and change along with future maintenance is needed

Unfortunately the push by most is one answer solutions. Hunters need to really think about these one solution agendas and the fact this is trying to apply this to BC the most bio diverse province in Canada. The natural habitat varies so much over a few hundred KMs and often the species along with it

Really how can a place so diverse be solved with one solution

[Bugle M In]

It to say I but it's more complex than that even.
It starts with the individual at home, what they purchase and consume and how we thro it away.
It all effects what happens out there, how it used and how it will be kept up...or not.
And yes, we have desserts and rain forests all in one province.
Makes your head spin and it's still to early for a Scotch!:?

[Walking Buffalo]

Look into the study done in Yaha Tinda predators are a huge factor bears playing a much larger role than wolves. Elk actually changed migration routes closer trying to avoid predators

Habitat is pretty good and access is limited

things are not cut and dry


It is complex and change along with future maintenance is needed

Unfortunately the push by most is one answer solutions. Hunters need to really think about these one solution agendas and the fact this is trying to apply this to BC the most bio diverse province in Canada. The natural habitat varies so much over a few hundred KMs and often the species along with it

Really how can a place so diverse be solved with one solution

Yaha Elk were initially decimated by wolves, now bears are keeping elk from rebounding (calf predation).

If there were no bears, the wolves would probably be killing those calves that the bears are getting to first.

Southern Alberta Caribou herds survived industrial activity over the last hundred years, until intensive wolf and bear control was ceased.


Here in Alberta we have places with piles of Elk, Moose, Whitetail and Mule Deer living together in strong numbers in a completely modified landscape comprised of extensive human use including extremely high road densities.

What these places don't have are high numbers of big predators.


The answer IS simple.
Ugly and unacceptable to some, but Oh so simple.

[Boner]

Makes your head spin and it's still to early for a Scotch!:?

I have no idea what you’re talking about, but I beg to differ. :)

[gcreek]

It is complex and change along with future maintenance is needed

Unfortunately the push by most is one answer solutions. Hunters need to really think about these one solution agendas and the fact this is trying to apply this to BC the most bio diverse province in Canada. The natural habitat varies so much over a few hundred KMs and often the species along with it

Really how can a place so diverse be solved with one solution

It would be a damn good start. Bios have been trying to prove that climate change, logging, the Pine Beetle and every other imaginable dream has been decreasing caribou populations in this area for 35 years. We may finally have one that wants to prove to Govt. that wolves and bears have been doing most all of the killing.

We have removed 14 wolves from our ranch this winter again. One left from the last pack left and now another 6 have moved in. You won't convince me there is a shortage of them. They actually collared a bunch here a month ago. The contractors were noted to say they didn't have to look far for subjects.

Maybe once a balance is achieved we can talk about habitat.

[Bugle M In]

That's one thing about National Parks.
They will always be safe havens for wolves.
Even if we do convince the government to re-involve itself in culling, we have to recognize that wolves will come back
and as the numbers swell in those parks, eventually they need to expand territory.
Crazy that they thought by killing moose in an area would help the problem of discouraging preds to go elsewhere.
Only proved they will go elsewhere when easy prey is gone.
Hopefully the ministry took that paper and put it into the junk pile of "to try list".
Time to dig out the one that did work.

[scott h]

That's one thing about National Parks.
They will always be safe havens for wolves.
Even if we do convince the government to re-involve itself in culling, we have to recognize that wolves will come back
and as the numbers swell in those parks, eventually they need to expand territory.
Crazy that they thought by killing moose in an area would help the problem of discouraging preds to go elsewhere.
Only proved they will go elsewhere when easy prey is gone.
Hopefully the ministry took that paper and put it into the junk pile of "to try list".
Time to dig out the one that did work.
The thing is there are lot's of predators in national parks AND ungulates. Big difference is that there is no logging, and no roads being pushed through. When a fire burns it grows back the way it's supposed to, with mixed deciduous and conifers. Very patchy. No logging companies to spray round up and kill all the aspen and other browse. There are tens of thousands of acres sprayed to kill all the browse every year in BC, so it's almost surprising we have as many deer and moose as what we do.

[horshur]

The thing is there are lot's of predators in national parks AND ungulates. Big difference is that there is no logging, and no roads being pushed through. When a fire burns it grows back the way it's supposed to, with mixed deciduous and conifers. Very patchy. No logging companies to spray round up and kill all the aspen and other browse. There are tens of thousands of acres sprayed to kill all the browse every year in BC, so it's almost surprising we have as many deer and moose as what we do.
https://www.fitzhugh.ca/roadside-elk-survey-results/

[Wild one]

Yaha Elk were initially decimated by wolves, now bears are keeping elk from rebounding (calf predation).

If there were no bears, the wolves would probably be killing those calves that the bears are getting to first.

Southern Alberta Caribou herds survived industrial activity over the last hundred years, until intensive wolf and bear control was ceased.


Here in Alberta we have places with piles of Elk, Moose, Whitetail and Mule Deer living together in strong numbers in a completely modified landscape comprised of extensive human use including extremely high road densities.

What these places don't have are high numbers of big predators.


The answer IS simple.
Ugly and unacceptable to some, but Oh so simple.

I was only sent the information about the bear impact on calf mortality from a friend who was surprised on the impact bears could have. Did not realize wolf was the main issue but can’t say I am surprised. There is no doubt in my mind predators are a big part of the decline in some populations.

There is still population where predators are not the issue.

Habitat impact from industry is not always an issue but it some parts of BC it’s had an impact. In my opinion these areas were it has been an issue are also areas where beetle kill and development are added to it. I have also seen how game thrives in parts of the oilfield. Lots of timber combined with strips from pipelines ungulates seem to thrive even with all the roads. Farmland we all know game often does

Impacts can be made from habitat issues as well

I realize both can be issues and in some areas one or both are not the main problem

[Bugle M In]

The thing is there are lot's of predators in national parks AND ungulates. Big difference is that there is no logging, and no roads being pushed through. When a fire burns it grows back the way it's supposed to, with mixed deciduous and conifers. Very patchy. No logging companies to spray round up and kill all the aspen and other browse. There are tens of thousands of acres sprayed to kill all the browse every year in BC, so it's almost surprising we have as many deer and moose as what we do.

Yup, I agree, although some could tell you that a park like Kootenay National Park isn't holding the ungulates, especially elk
like it did in the 70's.
They tried with fire, and it hasn't made a huge difference, at least form the Parks people who know the area well.
Mind you, most of them weren't even born then??
Lots of elk outside the park where logging happened.
BUT the big difference was back then, logging was more "sporadic"!
and that's how it was supposed to be. or at least, that's as much as they could log at the time.
Changes in equipment and how they practice have changed a lot over the years.
And sadly, requires less crew members, so less jobs, more timber down and lots of roads etc etc etc.

Again, I think some things we can "generalize" as to "common issues" with game and many parts of
BC.
But like WildOne stated, BC is very diverse in habitat, and not everything is the same template as far as fixes go, imo.

[HarryToolips]

Any kind of habitat over run with predators does nothing for ungulates at all.
I agree....there are many areas in our province that need habitat improvement, but we still need a pred cull big time, we need to continue to put pressure on our government to do so..

[Bugle M In]

I was only sent the information about the bear impact on calf mortality from a friend who was surprised on the impact bears could have. Did not realize wolf was the main issue but can’t say I am surprised. There is no doubt in my mind predators are a big part of the decline in some populations.

There is still population where predators are not the issue.

Habitat impact from industry is not always an issue but it some parts of BC it’s had an impact. In my opinion these areas were it has been an issue are also areas where beetle kill and development are added to it. I have also seen how game thrives in parts of the oilfield. Lots of timber combined with strips from pipelines ungulates seem to thrive even with all the roads. Farmland we all know game often does

Impacts can be made from habitat issues as well

I realize both can be issues and in some areas one or both are not the main problem

Not sure if I said it on this thread or not.
But at one point, when beetle hit the area I hunt in the EK, they came in a tried to "selective log" or tried to cut out
the dead timber that were infested (hard to say what they were doing), but they only took out some trees while leaving
other trees standing, all in the same patch, and I never saw so much different game use the same area!!
Seemed to help for 5 or 6 years afterwards.
Hard to say if other changes impacted those spots, or if that was the longevity of such work, because at that point they
started to log the hell out of several tributaries as well as the main valley they flowed into.

But you could tell that it made things better as far as game went.
To obvious to deny or say otherwise, imo.
So I agree with your points 100%

[scott h]

Yup, I agree, although some could tell you that a park like Kootenay National Park isn't holding the ungulates, especially elk
like it did in the 70's.
They tried with fire, and it hasn't made a huge difference, at least form the Parks people who know the area well.
Mind you, most of them weren't even born then??
Lots of elk outside the park where logging happened.
BUT the big difference was back then, logging was more "sporadic"!
and that's how it was supposed to be. or at least, that's as much as they could log at the time.
Changes in equipment and how they practice have changed a lot over the years.
And sadly, requires less crew members, so less jobs, more timber down and lots of roads etc etc etc.

Again, I think some things we can "generalize" as to "common issues" with game and many parts of
BC.
But like WildOne stated, BC is very diverse in habitat, and not everything is the same template as far as fixes go, imo.

You mention that the numbers around Kootenay NP were holding a lot more ungulates back in the 70's. I firmly believe that spraying logged area's is THE big difference between then and now.In fact they didn't even have round up then. They logged back then, but what they didn't do is spray the aspen regrowth. It seems crazy to spray tens of thousands of acres every year and then wonder why the numbers are not what they used to be.

[Wild one]

I have seen examples of industry development having both positive and negative effects on ungulates it is all about the overall available habitat in the area and in what way they impact the area

I can tell you there is some huge mule deer bucks and bears living in some of BCs mines and I would not praise them for habitat. Mines also provide safety which intern benefits animals

There is a lot more factors at play then most realize and some people won’t admit to.

[Wild one]

You mention that the numbers around Kootenay NP were holding a lot more ungulates back in the 70's. I firmly believe that spraying logged area's is THE big difference between then and now.In fact they didn't even have round up then. They logged back then, but what they didn't do is spray the aspen regrowth. It seems crazy to spray tens of thousands of acres every year and then wonder why the numbers are not what they used to be.

This is a factor that needs research in my opinion. At the min it has an impact by preventing the growth of mixed timber forests

[scott h]

This is a factor that needs research in my opinion. At the min it has an impact by preventing the growth of mixed timber forests
http://hunterconservationist.ca/british-columbias-war-on-moose-guest-article/

[Bugle M In]

You mention that the numbers around Kootenay NP were holding a lot more ungulates back in the 70's. I firmly believe that spraying logged area's is THE big difference between then and now.In fact they didn't even have round up then. They logged back then, but what they didn't do is spray the aspen regrowth. It seems crazy to spray tens of thousands of acres every year and then wonder why the numbers are not what they used to be.

Well, the park itself obviously has never been logged.
Biggest issue they thought was that no fire had hit the area for over 100 years.
When they dropped collared elk off in the park, the elk within 24 hours had left the park.
Strange that they ever needed to drop elk off there, as there were so many back in the 70's?
Also, they wouldn't have done the first prescribed fire in a national park in all of Canada if everything was okay.
Obviuosly there were issues.
Elk left to the logged areas, but back then, logging was sparse and spaced out.

As for spraying, I know some areas are bad in the province.
However, I don't think they sprayed any of the cutblocks around where I hunt.
Seems much of the cut blocks are clogged with alder and birch (young ones that have grown after logging) etc,
so I don't think did.

Anyways, fire has come and went many years ago now, and things should be good.
But they are not.
Who knows why??
This isn't an area were the elk generally migrate into the ZoneX zones, so we cant say they were culled.
So why are they missing??? who really knows.
And its an area they better start thinking about looking at.
I know elk didn't exist in much of the EK way back when.
But this was an area where elk did show up at an earlier time then most areas as the #'s expanded.

I saw one report by a trapper (cant remember his other qualifications) who basically "called it".
He said that within a few years that the area would be void of most elk due to wolves.
Not sure if it was wolves, but elk #'s are low as he predicted.

Again, lots of complexity to the issues.
Only way to know is to collar them just like the MD study.
And hope when the problem/s are found, that the real solutions are actually possible to implement.
As for Cariboo, well that's too late in some areas.
Just wonder how much more piddling around other species like elk can take with out action??
At least there.

[kitnayakwa77]

This^^^^^

It is so F'd up out there in a way we have never seen it before and way beyond the 50's.
This isn't about feed like many think, imo.
This is about habitat to evade and lay in, or winter in, and not being easily accessible to reach.
That's the real problems.
We just made it really easy for preds like wolves to exploit it.

And we have windfall everywhere, so movement at migration times is impossible thru timber.
So I guess creatures like Cariboo have no choice to walk thru these cutblocks which is easy pickings for wolves and such.

So yes, we can blame global warming for not killing beetles like in the past.
We can blame logging for access and large areas cut away because of the beetle.
We can thank the cutblocks and roads for easy wolf migration.
We can blame windfall on both beetle and some logging
We can thank human encroachment with development and housing for fire suppression, thus the windfall remains.

And we need to acknowledge that we are "not acknowledging" any of it as to why our game is missing or cant
repopulate!
We just keep going, we just keep cutting, we just keep putting out fires, and we keep pointing fingers.

This....anyone who has spent time on the ground in Central and Northern BC with some knowledge of ecology, biology and habitat can see this is correct. Add in different branches of government and industry with opposing plans and limited collaboration and the future is scary. BC's dirty not so secret secret...we keep thinking resources are limitless and cutting/spraying/road building/not controlling predators while the canary in the coal mine is dying.