Immature bull moose q

[junkyard_g]

Yet again I ran into another 2yr old 3x3 bull moose. Its been six years since i've seen a true 2x3. I'm starting to wonder if being a 2x3 or 3x3 is a genetic thing, and all these years of people only shooting the 2x3's are reducing the frequency of that gene. Maybe I just have terrible luck?
Each time the third points are contestable, but living in PG allows you the luxury of being able to pass a few times.

What are your guys' thoughts on the 2x3 reg??

[3kills]

i think we need a open season for a lil while but on the other hand in some areas like here or up there its going to be a slaughter and its not worth it all...u gotta remember its not a 2x3 rule as long as there is 2 points or less on one side it dont matter how many are on that other side...

[Sitkaspruce]

Also remember that it has to be an "immature" bull. A 4-5 yo bull with a broken antler with two points left does not constitute a 2 point immature bull. I see around 2-3 immature bulls every year. Last year I know of 4 that were shot from guys in the office. They are around, but not around every tree.

[chinooker]

Also remember that it has to be an "immature" bull. A 4-5 yo bull with a broken antler with two points left does not constitute a 2 point immature bull. I see around 2-3 immature bulls every year. Last year I know of 4 that were shot from guys in the office. They are around, but not around every tree.


Imature has nothing to do with it. the regs state spike fork bulls and give a definition. age is not a factor.

[browningboy]

Yet again I ran into another 2yr old 3x3 bull moose. Its been six years since i've seen a true 2x3. I'm starting to wonder if being a 2x3 or 3x3 is a genetic thing, and all these years of people only shooting the 2x3's are reducing the frequency of that gene. Maybe I just have terrible luck?
Each time the third points are contestable, but living in PG allows you the luxury of being able to pass a few times.

What are your guys' thoughts on the 2x3 reg??


The game gets the regs and get cosmetic surgury to make them safe, didn't you know!:shock:

[krazy]

Also remember that it has to be an "immature" bull. A 4-5 yo bull with a broken antler with two points left does not constitute a 2 point immature bull. I see around 2-3 immature bulls every year. Last year I know of 4 that were shot from guys in the office. They are around, but not around every tree.

Ahh ..... No. The actual age of the bull has no bearing what so ever on the spike/fork regulation. If he has no more than 2 legal tines on at least 1 antler he is legal.

Unfortunatley the big antlered bulls that are just starting to act all silly around here can NOT be clasified as "immature bulls"? :razz:

[Caveman]

By the true definition of the "spike fork", having no more than one or two scorable points on one side, a bull with a paddle and ten points on one side and a deformed mainbeam with a fork on it would be deamed legal. Just try finding one if you think the 1 1/2 year old is hard to find.

[Will]

Just try finding one if you think the 1 1/2 year old is hard to find.
:lol::lol::lol:

[BCLongshot]

You'll see lots if immy's when U have a bull draw and lots of big bulls when U can only snag an immy.

[lip_ripper00]

Just try finding one if you think the 1 1/2 year old is hard to find.



I posted this a couple of years ago, I can't find the link but here goes. I watched a mature bull in a swamp a few years ago, Palmated one side 2 point fork on the other. We had along discussion at the time if this was legal, could'nt decide so we let him walk.
Talking with a CO a couple of days later we asked about this, he said "you should have shot him". Reason being when two bulls sparr they will try to gore one another in the nuts. IF one testical is damaged it will stunt rack growth,making it sub standard for the gene pool. So like the regs say no more than 2 point on ONE side, BOOM. If I ever see this again I won't think twice.

[mark]

Well since were on the topic here I have a question also. I saw 1 bull up north this year and I almost shot him but decided to pass! This bull had a 5 point antler on 1 side. The other had a long brow tine out front and a small paddle in the rear, this paddle had 4 little bumps on it, but none that would legally measure as a point! Should I have dumped him???

[tooty]

Shot a bull a few years ago in Prince,2 on one side 8 on the other.I let him come to 50 feet of me while I went over the regs in my head.That's legal by the regs.Not a immature,but still legal.Counted those two points over and over.That's a two,holy crap a two...better count again.Bang.Big bullets,big holes,big meals.No stupid little 25-06 varmit gun on moose for me.

[tooty]

By definition the points have to be 1 inch to be a legal point.(2.5 cm)Page 5 in the regs.

[BIGHUNTERFISH]

Well since were on the topic here I have a question also. I saw 1 bull up north this year and I almost shot him but decided to pass! This bull had a 5 point antler on 1 side. The other had a long brow tine out front and a small paddle in the rear, this paddle had 4 little bumps on it, but none that would legally measure as a point! Should I have dumped him???

If it is not a legal size tine it doesnt count ,a tine is at least 2.5 cm.If you would have shot that bull you would be poaching ,when in doubt dont pull the trigger.

[mark]

If it is not a legal size tine it doesnt count ,a tine is at least 2.5 cm.If you would have shot that bull you would be poaching ,when in doubt dont pull the trigger.

BHF Why would it have been poaching???? the bull had 1 long brow point and a paddle with little bumps on it, but none long enough to count as a point so the paddle would count as 1 point, thus being a 2 point antler, yes????

[krazy]

Well since were on the topic here I have a question also. I saw 1 bull up north this year and I almost shot him but decided to pass! This bull had a 5 point antler on 1 side. The other had a long brow tine out front and a small paddle in the rear, this paddle had 4 little bumps on it, but none that would legally measure as a point! Should I have dumped him???

This is a great question. I have also seen a bull like this that I did not shoot. All of the 'bumps' coming of the palm were definatley less than 2.5 centimeters or less then the width as per the regs but i could not get my head around the palm - it didn't seem right to me that an immature could have a palm. The regs don't define the palm as a tine but it's there so it must be counted as one and then the brow tine makes 2 points - right? The way i read the regs it would have been a legal spike/fork - i think?

[Steeleco]

BHF Why would it have been poaching???? the bull had 1 long brow point and a paddle with little bumps on it, but none long enough to count as a point so the paddle would count as 1 point, thus being a 2 point antler, yes????

We've been down this road not just a few times. I would have shot it, with no concern for breaking the law. Based on your description I see "2" points and meat in the freezer!!

[Rock Doctor]

mark;
BHF Why would it have been poaching???? the bull had 1 long brow point and a paddle with little bumps on it, but none long enough to count as a point so the paddle would count as 1 point, thus being a 2 point antler, yes????


I agree, it would be a legal Bull.
Legal Tine Desctiption is not only that the point be at least 2.5cm long, the length must also excede the width at the base. I believe that the regs have a little picture of a square that you can "Cut Out:roll:" and use as a referance if you want.

Some people would argue that it would be pushing the limits of the "Spirit" of the law:roll:

[mark]

Thanks guys, Thats what i figured also, so I suppose I could of had a moose this year as I watched him for 5 minutes at 75 yards. But given the hurting moose situation up there its probably a good thing to leave a few for seed! Ironically I just got off the phone with a buddy that just seen a bull with huge 8 point antler on 1 side, and a deformed spike curling around right into its face, on the other, and we just had the same conversation!

[lip_ripper00]

[quote=mark;185899] But given the hurting moose situation up there its probably a good thing to leave a few for seed!

wrong. it is genetically damaged goods, hence the way it's written in the regs

[Sitkaspruce]

Unless things are different in other places, or that the regs have changed in the last couple of years, I know of three guys that have been charged with shooting the wrong bull because it was a fully mature bull with one mature antler and a two point or less on the other. They were told that because it had only two points on one side, but was fully a mature bull because of the points on the other, that it did not meet the definition of a two point/spike bull. Apparently the regs are not very clear, but the bull is to be an immature or very young (what ever that means) bull to be harvested. Look at the great drawning in the regs.....

I am not trying to stir the pot, but I would get clarification on this before I headed out. Maybe some one already has and can post it.

[coastalhunter]

What about if one antler is broken off right at the base. A buddy of mine shot a big bull a few years back that had recently lost a whole side. Would that be legal - a 9 x 0?? It was legal at the time because he had an bull draw.

Thoughts??

[lip_ripper00]

What about if one antler is broken off right at the base. A buddy of mine shot a big bull a few years back that had recently lost a whole side. Would that be legal - a 9 x 0?? It was legal at the time because he had an bull draw.

Thoughts??

I would say no, if their is NOTHING on one side it is obviously damaged, it would take a full year to show any deformities.

[3kills]

Unless things are different in other places, or that the regs have changed in the last couple of years, I know of three guys that have been charged with shooting the wrong bull because it was a fully mature bull with one mature antler and a two point or less on the other. They were told that because it had only two points on one side, but was fully a mature bull because of the points on the other, that it did not meet the definition of a two point/spike bull. Apparently the regs are not very clear, but the bull is to be an immature or very young (what ever that means) bull to be harvested. Look at the great drawning in the regs.....

I am not trying to stir the pot, but I would get clarification on this before I headed out. Maybe some one already has and can post it.

they have changed it in the last few years i dont remember when but the original rule was immature with 2 points or less now the rule just states 2 points or less on one side...so itdoesnt matter how many are on the other side it legal game...

[krazy]

What about if one antler is broken off right at the base. A buddy of mine shot a big bull a few years back that had recently lost a whole side. Would that be legal - a 9 x 0?? It was legal at the time because he had an bull draw.

Thoughts??

I would say if there is nothing on one side it could not be defined as a spike/fork but if there was a visable piece of antler that meets the regs definition of a legal tine then it would be a legal spike/fork.


Sitkaspruce: What were the outcomes of the 3 guys you know that were charged? Were the charges upheld or dismissed?

[bighornbob]

Unless things are different in other places, or that the regs have changed in the last couple of years, I know of three guys that have been charged with shooting the wrong bull because it was a fully mature bull with one mature antler and a two point or less on the other. They were told that because it had only two points on one side, but was fully a mature bull because of the points on the other, that it did not meet the definition of a two point/spike bull. Apparently the regs are not very clear, but the bull is to be an immature or very young (what ever that means) bull to be harvested. Look at the great drawning in the regs.....

I am not trying to stir the pot, but I would get clarification on this before I headed out. Maybe some one already has and can post it.

I think somebody does need to look at the drawing and read the text thats with them. As stated the "immature" thing was tossed a few years ago and replaced with the "2 point or less".

In regards to a broken antler, this is a real grey area. Yes the bull has less then 2 points on one side so technically legal. But what stops a guy from busting off a whole antler or even a point to make it a 2 point. Thats where the problem lies. If you got stopped I guarentee you would be charged. But in court the CO has to prove it had less then two points when you shot it. But do you really want to fight it out in court etc etc.

If you could snap a pic of the bull alive with a busted antler then I would not think twice about pulling the pin on him.

BHB

[Mr. Dean]

The reg's state spike and fork... No mention of paddle/palmation??????
Could it be that the definition of a point only refer's too counting points on a mature Bull????? ??????


The regs also state to look at the drawing of the spike/fork moose and doesn't mention looking at the defintions of a point when classing/defining the animal.....


IF they only wanted younguns, It for sure could be spelled out a LOT clearer.

[Caveman]

This is from a simular thread from last year, I phone Victoria and this was the response.

Thread Re: Question about Spike-fork Bull Moose?

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Okay Guys. I talked to a Carol Foote from Fish & Wildlife and the defintion of a Spike-Fork Bullmoose is as follows; as long as there are only two points on one side or the other, the bull is legal, regardless of age. So if the bull has a paddle with ten points on one side and a deformity of two points on the other he is fair game. The only thing that would change this is if the two points were because of a broken antler, this would deem the bull illegal. No longer is the term immature used to describe a Spike-Fork bull.

[Mr. Dean]

Link no workie

[Caveman]

Link no workie
Not a link Mr. Bean, just the title from the other thread. :lol:

[Mr. Dean]

That explains it. I was like a kid on a goldfish bowl. tap tap... tap.


I'm such a TOOL!

[tooty]

Moose-Spike-fork Bull -means a bull moose having no more than two tines on one antler.(Includes tines on main antler and brow palms.) Page 4 of the regs.Page 5 shows you how to measure the tines.Hard when your hunting,so be sure.I do ride alongs with the CO,take your time and be sure.

............there is no more immature definition....