Ministry Mismanagement at its best

[Everett]

https://www.cranbrooktownsman.com/news/caribou-herd-disappears-from-kootenays-after-last-cow-relocated/?fbclid=IwAR1UabkcXhwWcvWEMH4eXjDQJnVXIyU5u6AaegDs QGpZy6rHEB1cFz-bRy4

[emerson]

Predator protection eh? Like not letting you female relatives leave the house, instead of putting human predators in jail.

[HarryToolips]

If the MOEwouldve been allowed to manage preds in the first place we wouldn't have had this problem...

[walks with deer]

emerson bang on

[weatherby_man]

Decades of mismanagement at all levels of government when it comes to wildlife have gotten us to where we are - and it aint pretty. Its very sad, as there are plenty of states that exemplify much better wildlife management in the US that we could take a lesson or two from. Instead of accepting defeat like they are showing here they could have bolstered and protected that herd long ago.

[MRP]

Mist management.
Always too late reactive management. In stead of proactive management.

[Ourea]

Help if we actually had a sufficient budget and funding.

[Opinionated Ol Phart]

Yup.....,,,,,,,,

[Walking Buffalo]

Voting has consequences.

Those voters that swayed politicians to not allow sufficient predator management caused this extirpation.


Yet, biologists do make me wonder sometimes....

"
DeGroot said the ministry has not yet decided what to do with the two remaining bulls in the Purcells. The size of the animals, he said, makes them difficult to move, and only one dominant male is needed for the breeding process.
"


So much for previous concerns of genetic variability.

[LBM]

Voting has consequences.

Those voters that swayed politicians to not allow sufficient predator management caused this extirpation.


Yet, biologists do make me wonder sometimes....

"
DeGroot said the ministry has not yet decided what to do with the two remaining bulls in the Purcells. The size of the animals, he said, makes them difficult to move, and only one dominant male is needed for the breeding process.
"


So much for previous concerns of genetic variability.

Predation wasn't what started there decline.

[Walking Buffalo]

Predation wasn't what started there decline.


Fair enough....


That was caused by moose.

[LBM]

Fair enough....


That was caused by moose.

Nope moose didn't start there decline either.

[heybert]

Nope moose didn't start there decline either.

Habitat loss?

[Jack Russell]

Habitat loss?

Its a secret, you have to keep guessing till the "smart" insiders decide its time to give you the reality.....good lord the internet has some real odd ducks.

[Walking Buffalo]

Habitat loss?

Sort of....

The creation of Provincial and National Parks seems to be the driver.

In Alberta, caribou have been extirpated from Banff and Jasper National park for a while now.
The only place we have caribou is where we allow industrial activity.

[Darksith]

Voting has consequences.

Those voters that swayed politicians to not allow sufficient predator management caused this extirpation.


Yet, biologists do make me wonder sometimes....

"
DeGroot said the ministry has not yet decided what to do with the two remaining bulls in the Purcells. The size of the animals, he said, makes them difficult to move, and only one dominant male is needed for the breeding process.
"


So much for previous concerns of genetic variability.
I would say more like the liberals looking to cut cut cut, which removed budgets to properly manage wildlife. This opened the door to bad science practices used by anti's to sway public opinion because they couldn't be disputed due to no management happening at all...private over public funding is not always the best way...

[sawmill]

I think some critters have an expiry date.Used to be nothing but Mountain cariboo up around Hazelton at the turn of the century, then they just faded away. Moose started moving in big time but down low. I left there in 1999 and white tail were just starting to show up and mulies were decreasing. Now they have elk there for crisake. And moose are declining. Weird, some things you just can`t save.

[northof49]

Its a secret, you have to keep guessing till the "smart" insiders decide its time to give you the reality.....good lord the internet has some real odd ducks.

Yup....just ignore and don’t play the game. LBM has nothing of any value to add.....just trying to stir the pot as usual.

[LBM]

Habitat loss?
Yes according to initial studys

[dana]

Yes according to initial studys

I supose if you call wildfire habitat loss.

[hawk-i]

Help if we actually had a sufficient budget and funding.

Gobermint will never have sufficient budget and funding because that is always mismanaged as well! :(

[sizedoes matter]

Main reason I see is the amount of logging and logging roads in old growth habitats. Lack of shelter/food. Now my experiences are mostly down south here up on the Kootenay pass. But I’m sure it’s the same everywhere.
And a wolf on a logging road can cover about 12km/hr just loping along.

[Walking Buffalo]

Main reason I see is the amount of logging and logging roads in old growth habitats. Lack of shelter/food. Now my experiences are mostly down south here up on the Kootenay pass. But I’m sure it’s the same everywhere.
And a wolf on a logging road can cover about 12km/hr just loping along.

The logging roads did not kill the caribou. Wolves that used these logging road did.

The reduction of old trees and lichen did not kill the caribou.

Caribou can prosper just fine without "old growth".


It was predation by wolves, bears and cats that killed these caribou.

If the politicians didn't stop wildlife managers from sufficiently reducing predator populations, these caribou would still exist.

[sizedoes matter]

I realize the roads didn’t kill the caribou, I was saying the roads aid the wolves cover more ground easily. And as for the reduction of the old growth , I think it did play a big roll in their extinction. Lack of food and shelter really weakens an animal to the point they become easy prey.

[MattB]

I realize the roads didn’t kill the caribou, I was saying the roads aid the wolves cover more ground easily. And as for the reduction of the old growth , I think it did play a big roll in their extinction. Lack of food and shelter really weakens an animal to the point they become easy prey.

There is no lack of food or shelter. There was a change (logging) that allowed moose/deer to move into caribou habitat and that brought the wolves.

[HarryToolips]

∆∆bingo........

[LBM]

The logging roads did not kill the caribou. Wolves that used these logging road did.

The reduction of old trees and lichen did not kill the caribou.

Caribou can prosper just fine without "old growth".


It was predation by wolves, bears and cats that killed these caribou.

If the politicians didn't stop wildlife managers from sufficiently reducing predator populations, these caribou would still exist.

Funny how the some of the people actually involved in this say different and also how harvest methods were increased in that area on some predators, not stopped.

[LBM]

There is no lack of food or shelter. There was a change (logging) that allowed moose/deer to move into caribou habitat and that brought the wolves.

So then the main problem was human caused.

[sizedoes matter]

Lol. If you think there were no moose elk or deer on the Kootenay pass years back you’re fooling yourself. Big mulies and quite a few shiras kicking around. When the highway first opened in 1963 the animals up there were incredible

im only saying what I’ve seen over the last 50 years up there. There is no one reason for what happened just like there is no one cure.

[hardnocks]

There is no lack of food or shelter. There was a change (logging) that allowed moose/deer to move into caribou habitat and that brought the wolves.
caribou were declining long before their was enough logging to bring in the moose .

[hardnocks]

I think some critters have an expiry date.Used to be nothing but Mountain cariboo up around Hazelton at the turn of the century, then they just faded away. Moose started moving in big time but down low. I left there in 1999 and white tail were just starting to show up and mulies were decreasing. Now they have elk there for crisake. And moose are declining. Weird, some things you just can`t save.
i be leave this is right . moose started moving south long before their was any amount of logging . ...

[Wild one]

I think some critters have an expiry date.Used to be nothing but Mountain cariboo up around Hazelton at the turn of the century, then they just faded away. Moose started moving in big time but down low. I left there in 1999 and white tail were just starting to show up and mulies were decreasing. Now they have elk there for crisake. And moose are declining. Weird, some things you just can`t save.

This maybe an unpopular view but the species on earth have been ever changing since the beginning so there might be some truth to it

[dana]

There were battles over caribou hunting grounds between the Shuswap and the Chilcotin precontact. Why? Because the caribou were declining. With numbers already down, the Southern herds took a huge kick in the 20's and 30's when successive hot years brought huge wildfires. Moose could not resist the smell of all that lush growth and wander south to take advantage of it. Following the moose were the wolves. As the moose fed high in the summer their range overlaped that of the caribou. The wolves found the caribou the easier prey species and the decline was fast and furious and they haven't been able to bounce back in all the years since. Nature is the reason for the decline. Fire didn't get rid of their food, but it instead brought the moose which then brought the wolf. This was way before roads and logging and snowmobiles and heleskiing and mountainbikers and hikers and quads and sidebysides and all the things that politicians like to blame. Lets be honest people. Nature is what did the caribou in. One could say man played the role in the last 30 years because man has refused to come to the aid of the caribou and manage the wolves that kill the caribou. One can say that Environmental Orgs have played a huge role in that they would rather we waste gobs of money capturing and collaring wolves and studying them instead of killing them.

[hardnocks]

i think that is spot on ..dana

[horshur]

eGroot said the ministry has not yet decided what to do with the two remaining bulls in the Purcells. The size of the animals, he said, makes them difficult to move, and only one dominant male is needed for the breeding process.

what the hell, it’s a stock trailer..these caribou are much smaller then a cow or a horse.

[MattB]

So then the main problem was human caused.

Yes. I dont think there is any denying that. But we also culd have done more to minimize predator growth and access to habitats with caribou. None of that happened. If it wasn't going to be logging then the past fire suppression would have led to habitat losses thru forest fires eventually. Nothing stays static forever.

[northof49]

All the bleading heart wolf loving enviro freaks were ultimately the cause because the politicians were too scared of pissing them off and losing the popular vote.

Evolution....natural selection...survival of the stongest/fittest. Mountain caribou are too soft....easy pickings. They have not been able to evolve fast enough to survive the onslaught of predation and are destined to disappear without sustained predator management. All people can do is help by slowing it down and reducing preds.....if that is what society wants. Unfortunately all the wolf lovers tend to stand in the way. I find it amazing that these are then the same folks crying over species extirpation.

Case in point:
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4915683

[Bugle M In]

There were battles over caribou hunting grounds between the Shuswap and the Chilcotin precontact. Why? Because the caribou were declining. With numbers already down, the Southern herds took a huge kick in the 20's and 30's when successive hot years brought huge wildfires. Moose could not resist the smell of all that lush growth and wander south to take advantage of it. Following the moose were the wolves. As the moose fed high in the summer their range overlaped that of the caribou. The wolves found the caribou the easier prey species and the decline was fast and furious and they haven't been able to bounce back in all the years since. Nature is the reason for the decline. Fire didn't get rid of their food, but it instead brought the moose which then brought the wolf. This was way before roads and logging and snowmobiles and heleskiing and mountainbikers and hikers and quads and sidebysides and all the things that politicians like to blame. Lets be honest people. Nature is what did the caribou in. One could say man played the role in the last 30 years because man has refused to come to the aid of the caribou and manage the wolves that kill the caribou. One can say that Environmental Orgs have played a huge role in that they would rather we waste gobs of money capturing and collaring wolves and studying them instead of killing them.

Well said Dana, I think that you are bang on in this view.
There was a decline happening, and probably inevitable.
Accelerated quicker by man in the later years.
The last chance those creatures had was a full on removal of all preds in the area.
(Lets face it, they are probably the dumbest of all the ungulates).
And that would have been a 365 day a year, for years, type of endeavor.
Maybe if we go from the planet warming up, back to an ice age, maybe they will return again???
(just kidding, but you never know:smile:)

[sizedoes matter]

Well said ^^^
I think nature will eventually fix itself. It’s the way it’s always been. It may take 5 , 10 maybe 50 thousand years or more but eventually there will be another major event that will cause another ice age. Many species will go extinct as in the past. Just the way it goes.