Starter Pistol or Launcher

[Ron.C]

Hi all.

I want to start conditioning my pup to gunfire as well as working the association with gunfire into training. I have been walking her in the local marsh while hunters are at it and the sound of shotguns at about 150 yards doesn't bother her in the least. She is now 7 months old. Do you guys like starter pistols and hand thrown bumpers or the launchers that use shotgun primers?

I am doing almost all my training alone at this point

[Foxton Gundogs]

Starter pistol, actually a shotgun primer pistol and training birds and/or bumpers is my choice. Has your pup already been gun broke, if not you need to start at square 1 I do this at feeding time as soon as they are eating on their own(about 4 weeks). Good luck enjoy the ride.

[Ron.C]

not really sure what gun broke even means, I assume it means some conditioning to the sound of gunfire in a slow mannner, and that's what I want to start on.

She has been exposed to some shooting "shotguns at about 150 yards, .22 at 75 yards" She is either indifferent to the shots going off or seems real interested in where the noise comes from but shows absolutely no indication of fear or being stressed by it. The last thing I want to do is give her a negative experience.

I was leaning toward a pistol because I could throw real birds and not just a canvas bumper

[Foxton Gundogs]

Gun broke is conditioning a pup preferably at an early age to associate gunfire with good things. As I stated I start pups at about 4 weeks in a mannor I have described in a number of posts here. My pups when ready for their new homes are fully gunbroke to a blank/primer pistol so the new owners can start taking from there with training.

[lorneparker1]

Hi all.

I want to start conditioning my pup to gunfire as well as working the association with gunfire into training. I have been walking her in the local marsh while hunters are at it and the sound of shotguns at about 150 yards doesn't bother her in the least. She is now 7 months old. Do you guys like starter pistols and hand thrown bumpers or the launchers that use shotgun primers?

I am doing almost all my training alone at this point


Can you get the wife out to throw some birds/bumpers? definitely get a starter pistol and like all things don't cheap out. Those <$100 starter pistols are junk.

get an alpha or the pro 209.

Pro 209 can be purchased at Dakota retrievers. Alphas you can get from running count. Both are in Ontario.

[Superdeuce]

X2 on Foxton.. ensure positive associations...Happy things like feeding... Make some noise in background from adjacent room to start, gradually louder and closer until right next to pup. Start with dropping and clanking a pot or pan on floor, and transition to firing a toy cap gun . Do this over a week or more every time you feed for a bit gradually moving closer and keeping the tail wagging at all times.... any sign of nervousness, back up and reassure the dog before gradually working closer again.

Next step would be transition to the field using the same toy cap gun to start with bumpers and eventually starter pistol but fired from out in the field ideally by a helper throwing or with dog in remote sit (if steady) while you are in field throwing... would not shoot from young dog's side until gunfire out in field with marks is well engrained and pup is loving the game. introducing from dog's side would start back with the toy cap gun again for a while before firing anything louder which again would ideally be a helper moving closer gradually.

Although could be fine to just wing it, better to be safe then sorry and risk causing an issue which could haunt you

[Superdeuce]

Can you get the wife out to throw some birds/bumpers? definitely get a starter pistol and like all things don't cheap out. Those <$100 starter pistols are junk.

get an alpha or the pro 209.

Pro 209 can be purchased at Dakota retrievers. Alphas you can get from running count. Both are in Ontario.

x2 on Pro209 from Dakota... buy once cry once

[Ron.C]

Thanks guys, I'll look at the Pro 209. And yes I do have help throwing birds. When I mentioned I was training alone I should have clarified that I wasn't part of a training group but my wife or friend can act as a bird boy when I ask.

I have been following the hillman puppy program and he doesn't really go into introducing the dog to Guns as a stand alone topic, but does talk about exposing the did to all sorts of things that might spook a pup. So I have been taking it slow. And I'm not to the point where he is with his pup where he wants to move onto the Fetch dvd" hold". But at the end of his puppy trg DVD he does touch on basic marks with a couple bird boys with a stater pistol. He also doesn't use the traditional FF. Still having lots of issues with her starting the hold as Hillman does to the point where I would say she " knows the command". So I wanted to start introducing her to gunfire before I'm ready to really start training with it.

[labguy]

Make sure you introduce gunfire (noise) in high excitement situations. Start with the noise far away and gradually move it closer. And ALWAYS when she's ramped up and/or chasing something.

The noise (gunfire)!should ALWAYS be associated with positive experiences/fun.

Some dogs don't need this careful approach to gunfire but some do. It depends on a dogs individual temperament and prey drive.

You'll need to watch her and her reactions and advance as it's appropriate for the dog you're training.

Its much easier to introduce gunfire properly than try to fix a gun shy dog later.

[Ron.C]

Couldn't agree more Labguy, that's the plan. From what I've seen so far, she's not afraid of it. I just want to make sure moving forward she has no negative experience with it, I do it right and associate it with her knowing something fun is about to happen

[Firstblood]

I used the RRT launcher that uses ramshot 22 blanks. It makes a good noise but not too lound, it doesnt look like a gun so you can use it a few more places as well. Launches bumpers and fake ducks a good 100yds with high power loads. Only took a few shots to get my pup used to the noise, now it makes her super excited when she hears or sees guns. I held her on heel and my buddy shot it a few times from 20yds or so, then I shot it, took ten minutes and my dog never even blinked, she was focused on the bumper. Launcher leaves hands free as well.

[mastercaster]

Like Foxton, I introduced gunshot like noise to my pup the week I got her. For inside the house I did the "noise" while she was eating her meals. I used a starter's pistol fired off in the garage at first and then in the laundry room close to where she eats. What I also did was find gunshot noises on the computer, turned the speakers up as loud as they could go, and let her rip. Bet a lot of people have never thought of it before but it works!

Outside I started off with a a 20 ga. fired as far a 75 yards away and eventually moved closer. This was when she was about 3 months old. At 2 years of age, she's heard 100s of shots now.

[lorneparker1]

Like Foxton, I introduced gunshot like noise to my pup the week I got her. For inside the house I did the "noise" while she was eating her meals. I used a starter's pistol fired off in the garage at first and then in the laundry room close to where she eats. What I also did was find gunshot noises on the computer, turned the speakers up as loud as they could go, and let her rip. Bet a lot of people have never thought of it before but it works!

Outside I started off with a a 20 ga. fired as far a 75 yards away and eventually moved closer. This was when she was about 3 months old. At 2 years of age, she's heard 100s of shots now.


Gun shots on the computer is a great idea! Starter pistol in the laundry room not so much lol

[Foxton Gundogs]

My pups are home raised. I leave the outdoor channel on 24/7 in the whelping room. Some of the first things they hear when the ears open is gunshots. This works well because they are not constant so don't just become part of the background noise.

[mastercaster]

My pups are home raised. I leave the outdoor channel on 24/7 in the whelping room. Some of the first things they hear when the ears open is gunshots. This works well because they are not constant so don't just become part of the background noise.

Any of them ever want you to change the channel since they keep showing the same program over and over again??

[SignalLight]

Since you are training alone I would go with a remote launcher. The important part is to do the introduction in a gradual and controlled manner and having the dog associate gunfire with positive experiences like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc8iO8iemLw

You can do the same with a remote launcher by having it behind you and dog and working back towards it. The steps are:

1. Load shot in launcher, don't load mark
2. Walk out 100m facing 180 degrees from the launcher
3. Throw fun bumper and release dog
4. Fire launcher while dog is running out to the bumper
5. Load shot in launcher, don't load mark
6. Walk out 80m facing 180 degrees from the launcher
...

Take it slow and don't try and do it all in one session or day.

On the subject of noise maker substitutions, I like using the air bags (http://goo.gl/images/kVLc2M) that come in packages from online stores like Amazon. To simulate a shot you just squeeze the bag until it bursts. It's safe to use indoors and in areas where walking around with a starter pistol will freak people out.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Any of them ever want you to change the channel since they keep showing the same program over and over again??

No but I think the know how to hit rewind lol

[Ron.C]

Jessie got introduced to bird boy thrown birds with a starter pistol last weekend. She loved it.

Yesterday I took Jessie to our first training day with Salt Chuck HRC. Pretty sure I learned more than she did. It was great. She got plenty of exposure to Guns " poppers".

After a bit of work on walking singles in another field, I was able to take Jessie to where we could see the main field and observe other dogs being run. We progressively moved closer to the line. She could easily see the birds being launched and hear the gunfire. She would tug and try to go when she saw the birds.

While we were in the holding blinds, she was trying to peak when she heard the duck calls and gunfire. When it was her turn, I asked for someone else to be the gunner on my right while Jess was on my left. She did three singles with the gun and took off hard each time when I released her. We have a long way to go but I think the best thing I can say is she nearly comes out of her skin wanting to retreive the bird and no adverse reaction to tge gunfire. She's was very happy and super excited when she got her turn to run. Was so much fun for both of us.

[Kasomor]

Gun shots on the computer is a great idea! Starter pistol in the laundry room not so much lol

Ever quack a Bumper Boy in the laundry room... all hell breaks loose. :D

[Kasomor]

Jessie got introduced to bird boy thrown birds with a starter pistol last weekend. She loved it.

Yesterday I took Jessie to our first training day with Salt Chuck HRC. Pretty sure I learned more than she did. It was great. She got plenty of exposure to Guns " poppers".

After a bit of work on walking singles in another field, I was able to take Jessie to where we could see the main field and observe other dogs being run. We progressively moved closer to the line. She could easily see the birds being launched and hear the gunfire. She would tug and try to go when she saw the birds.

While we were in the holding blinds, she was trying to peak when she heard the duck calls and gunfire. When it was her turn, I asked for someone else to be the gunner on my right while Jess was on my left. She did three singles with the gun and took off hard each time when I released her. We have a long way to go but I think the best thing I can say is she nearly comes out of her skin wanting to retreive the bird and no adverse reaction to tge gunfire. She's was very happy and super excited when she got her turn to run. Was so much fun for both of us.

You can't go wrong training with the Salt Chuck group!

[mastercaster]

Ever quack a Bumper Boy in the laundry room... all hell breaks loose. :D

From the wife or the dog?

[pnbrock]

is that what you kids call fooling around Kasomor?